Knicks Morning News (2015.10.06)

  • [New York Daily News] ‘Hell no!’ Carmelo Anthony not thinking of asking for trade (Tue, 06 Oct 2015 06:19:44 GMT)

    Carmelo Anthony holds a no-trade clause and the biggest contract on the Knicks.

  • [New York Times] Kings Down Trail Blazers 109-105 in OT Preseason Opener (Tue, 06 Oct 2015 05:15:43 GMT)

    Marco Belinelli had 32 points, including four 3-pointers, and the Sacramento Kings defeated the Portland Trail Blazers 109-105 in overtime Monday night, the preseason opener for both teams.

  • [New York Times] Barboza, Thompson Lead Warriors Past Raptors 95-87 (Tue, 06 Oct 2015 05:03:44 GMT)

    Leandro Barbosa scored 15 points, Klay Thompson added 14 and the NBA champion Golden State Warriors beat the Toronto Raptors 95-87 in a preseason game Monday night.

  • [New York Times] Nets Lose at Home (Tue, 06 Oct 2015 04:11:26 GMT)

    The Nets opened their preseason with a 101-96 home loss to Fenerbahce Ulker of Turkey.

  • [New York Times] Turkey’s Fenerbahce Beats Nets 101-96 in Exhibition Game (Tue, 06 Oct 2015 02:12:50 GMT)

    The Brooklyn Nets lost their preseason opener Monday night to Turkey’s Fenerbahce Ulker, which got 18 points from former NBA lottery pick Jan Vesely in a 101-96 victory.

  • [New York Times] Neal Walk, Who Rebounded Coast to Coast, Dies at 67 (Tue, 06 Oct 2015 01:16:13 GMT)

    Walk grabbed more rebounds at the University of Florida than anyone else in the basketball program’s history and became an effective center for the Phoenix Suns in the early years of the franchise.

  • [New York Times] Jury Selection Focuses on Race in Trial of Thabo Sefolosha, Atlanta Hawks Player (Tue, 06 Oct 2015 01:09:38 GMT)

    The trial commenced after Mr. Sefolosha, a forward for the Atlanta Hawks, refused a plea bargain and accused the police of wrongful arrest and brutality.

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    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    54 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2015.10.06)”

    1. No Afflalo this week. Either we’ve learned our lesson after the Calderon fiasco last season, or Aaron is going to miss about 45 games.

    2. “or Aaron is going to miss about 45 games.”
      Speaking of guys missing about 45 games, I’m pretty surprised that a full day has passed and no one has mentioned the big news out of Nets camp — Andrea Bargnani is hurt again.

    3. No Afflalo this week. Either we’ve learned our lesson after the Calderon fiasco last season, or Aaron is going to miss about 45 games.

      Berman had another Jackson hit piece (who the heck turned Berman on Jackson? I still have no idea. He was the ultimate Jackson defender for 60% of the season and then abruptly he turned on Jackson and has been churning out SAS-style hit pieces since) and in it, he mentioned Afflalo’s sore hamstring and I thought, “Please don’t be an issue.” So, well, I hope it does not turn into more of an issue. Short term injuries are okay at this point in the year, guys, but nothing long term!

    4. The Nets have put together an interesting team. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a team with so many just decent parts thrown together like they have done this season (plus one awful part in Bargs). Jarrett Jack, Bojan Bogdonavic, Thaddeus Young and Joe Johnson are all decently mediocre players. Wayne Ellington, Thomas Robinson, Donald Sloan and Shane Larkin are all decent enough role players. But a bunch of average to slightly below average players and one legitimately good player (Brook Lopez) is an odd way to form a team when none of them are rookies (I mean, I guess Rondae Hollis-Jefferson might be something, but I doubt it).

    5. What the hell, man? The preseason has only just begun and already Michael Kidd-Gilchrist is out for the whole season! NBA stars, stop getting seriously injured! It is not fun!

    6. Any thoughts on whether Porzingis is better off starting or coming off the bench at the start of the season? On the one hand, level of competition would be much lower against other teams’ second units, which would give him a better chance to adjust to the speed and size of the NBA game and to gain some confidence. On the other, he’d be more protected playing most of his minutes on a front line alongside Lopez (who will help clean up some of his defensive mistakes) and Melo (who will assume the scoring burden), and that could help his development more.

      The kid will be a starter eventually, and hopefully for a very long time, but would people rather see him starting right away, or putting, say, O’Quinn in as the starting PF?

    7. I saw the Bargnani injury yesterday and simply shrugged. We might want to do pool on games played for Bargs in 2015/16. Put me down for 40 games and the Nets will go 15-25 in those games.

      The Afflalo injury seems to be the type where, if was regular season, he might be rushed back. I’m not that worried.

      I like the idea of PK coming off the bench. Put Seraphin, O’Quinn or even Derek Williams in there instead. I would rather have a thumper in the starting five playing alongside Melo.

    8. Well the bench is going to need scoring, and I think Porzingis can contribute in that respect. But if he outplays the other candidates for starting PF he’s likely to start. That’s the way coaches think. But I’m not sure who will be the scorers off the bench; maybe Vujacic and Williams? Does anyone have other suggestions?

    9. I’d just start him (so long as he outplays the other options, of course). He’s the future of the team. I’d rather him be in the starting lineup as soon as he has earned the spot. They can always stagger the lineups so that he and Melo play at different points in the 2nd and 3rd, but I think if he outplays the other guys he should be given a chance to start and finish games.

    10. We could perhaps start Grant and Calderon (or Galloway and Calderon) in the backcourt and use Afflalo as a sixth man. That’s not an ideal role for him, as his limitations have been exposed when he’s been asked to be too much of an offensive centerpiece, but he also might be the best-qualified of our many candidates to provide offense when the second unit’s on the floor.

    11. It’s a little early to be deciding who starts; we have the whole pre-season to see what makes sense. I’m a lot less worried about scoring off the bench than not getting completely blown out at the start of games because of our porous defense.

      I will confess, though, that I had the passing thought that it would be awesome if in three years we were watching perennial playoff battles between Bazingus and the Brow. Two legit centers who can score from inside and outside and block shots… I guess better not to think about it quite yet, but it’s within the realm of possibility, and that’s usually the best you get as a Knick fan.

    12. Galloway, Affalo, Melo, Zinger and Rolo.

      That’s my starting 5. You get your two best backcourt defenders to start the game. You don’t need a traditional PG to run this offense and Melo is also a good ball handler. Affalo and Galloway can both hit open 3s. Run the offense through Melo and Zinger gets looks too. You get Rolo anchoring the defense and the twin towers affect with him and Zinger (zinger gets a lot of blocks I imagine).

      Then you let Calderon play the SG with Grant. He can help the rookie along. Williams backing up Melo, Seraphim and OQ at the 4 and 5. Sprinkle in some Sasha as needed to help with the guard situation.

    13. I know its weird to start no PG and give the nod to Galloway. BUT, he did start the entire second half of the season so the argument could be made that he deserves the nod over Calderon or Grant.

      Also not opposed to Calderon, Affalo, Melo, Oquinn and Rolo with Grant, Galloway, Williams, Zinger and Seraphim as the back ups but then you kind of have Zinger as the back up to Rolo.

    14. @11
      If they do meet in the playoffs for the next 3 years, that might be the best run in NYK history– back-to-back-to-back Finals appearances.

    15. I think Calderon is most effective as a spot-up shooter off Melo double teams so I’d stick him in the starting lineup. Calderon Afflalo Melo KP RoLo is my starting 5. I’m with Brian – if KP has earned the right to start, let’s get him out there and give him the opportunity to succeed.

      I’d like to see Grant get the keys to the second unit and play fast with Gallo, Early and Derrick Williams streaking down the wings and hopefully pressuring the ball on the perimeter on D.

    16. I actually think Zinger playing with Melo, Affalo, Calderon and Rolo gives him the best chance to succeed. He’ll be surrounded by a lot of good veteran players.

    17. @14

      Yeah, it’s extremely unlikely, but fun to think about. I mean, LeBron is slowing down a little, no?

    18. Kristaps spent the last year averaging 20 minutes a night for a terrible Spanish team. And he wasn’t that good. (he was good for his age and league, but that’s something different) If Phil & Co think it’s best for his development, by all means, start the kid since we’re probably not going to be that good anyhow and he’s our best bet for significant improvement in the short to medium term. But if we’re trying to win games out of the gate, it’s probably best to limit Porzingis to 15 minutes or so, because it’s likely he’s not going to be all that good.

      Obviously, if he’s killing it in camp then disregard that.

    19. My starting 5: Calderon, Afflalo, O’Quinn, Melo, Rolo
      Rotation/2nd team: Grant, Galloway, DWilliams, PK, Seraphim

      So, I’m very aligned with Swiftandabundant’s second lineup. My only worry is the lack of experience in the second unit and I can see Early or Vujacic replacing Galloway as the 2-guard.

      BTW, I’ve got a sneaking suspicion that Cleanthony Early might make a big push to get into the rotation.

    20. Melo, Calderon, Afflalo is just too damn slow to even compete defensively. The Knicks will have the worst 3 pt defense in the league. If Melo starts at the 3 with Calderon, you pretty much have to start Galloway (or maybe Grant depending on what he shows on defense). Even then, if you’re going up against any team with more than one guy who can initiate the offense, you’re pretty screwed defensively.

      I’d start Lopez, Melo, Afflalo, Galloway, Calderon. If Porzingis starts, I move Grant in with him to add quickness, sending Afflalo and Calderon to the bench unit.

    21. Starting lineup I hope most to see:

      Jose Calderon
      Jerian Grant
      Carmelo Anthony
      Kristaps Porzingis
      Robin Lopez

      Substitutions:
      Vujacic for Calderon
      O’Quinn for Porzingis
      Williams for Melo
      Seraphin for Rolo
      Galloway for Grant

      Then:
      Early for Williams
      Thanasis for Vujacic
      Saunders for Gallo
      Atkins for O’Quinn
      Lou for Seraphin

      DNP-CDs
      Lance
      Summers
      Trice

    22. Looking at Nets, it makes me blessed to be a Knicks fan.
      I will settle for the logical choice of
      Calderon
      Affalo
      Melo
      Pozringis
      Rlopez
      for starting 5

    23. With all those guards (except Thomas) of roughly the same size and position flexibility in Boston, I can’t help but wonder what it would take to get Marcus Smart out of there given the whispers about him not being the shooter they want. If the Knicks are playing better than expected, would anyone consider shipping Calderon-Galloway-1st round pick for Smart and whoever it takes to match salaries? I’m talking this season. Imagine a backcourt of Smart and Grant in the triangle…

    24. Just got back from Yankee Stadium. It’s time to pack away my pinstripes until the spring. I’m glad the preseason starts tomorrow. LETS GO KNICKS!!!!

    25. With all those guards (except Thomas) of roughly the same size and position flexibility in Boston, I can’t help but wonder what it would take to get Marcus Smart out of there given the whispers about him not being the shooter they want. If the Knicks are playing better than expected, would anyone consider shipping Calderon-Galloway-1st round pick for Smart and whoever it takes to match salaries? I’m talking this season. Imagine a backcourt of Smart and Grant in the triangle…

      This team is not yet at “trading first round pick” territory.

    26. @21 – good point about quickness, but it’s a real flaw in the team. Last year they got killed by penetrating point guards because Calderon and Prigioni couldn’t stop guards like Wall or Westbrook. We need a decent 2-guard that can defend and shoot. It won’t come this year.

    27. My Starting Five: Calderon / Galloway /Afflalo / Melo / Robin Lopez
      Bench: Grant / Vujacic / Williams / Zinger / KOQ

    28. Calderon, Grant or Galloway (whoever looks better), Afflalo, Melo, Lopez.

      I’d honestly prefer Grant to start so that there is at least some threat of guard dribble penetration on that first unit. Then you somehow stagger Calderon/Grant’s rest so that there’s always at least 1 true PG on the floor. For the first part of the season I’d like to see KP come off the bench, but obviously if he looks awesome in preseason then it’d be nice to get double rim protection from him and Lopez. But having Melo at the 3 and Calderon at PG may be irretrievably bad on defense.

    29. I think KOQ + KP may make a nice combo on the second unit.. Both are good shotblockers. KOQ is a good rebounder so maybe will make up for whatever rebounding deficiencies KP lacks. Both seem to be willing and good passers, and both can step out and shoot a bit, opening up the lane.

      Figuring we will play 9 guys on a regular basis, the most minutes (not in order necessarily) should go to Melo, Lopez, Afflalo, Grant, Calderon, KOQ, KP, Williams, and either Galloway or Vujacic.
      That’s not a bad rotation.

    30. We need a decent 2-guard that can defend and shoot. It won’t come this year.

      Galloway could be that guy. He can already defend, and he shot well in college and the D-league.

    31. This team is not yet at “trading first round pick” territory

      True. And just to clarify, I was thinking a future 1st. Sucks that a move would like that would have to take Grant to get the C’s to even listen. That’s why I said “if the team is playing better than expected”. The only silver lining in the ‘any possible trade value for the Knicks Guards’ cloud, is if they managed to move Calderon, it wouldn’t be bad because the triangle doesn’t require high usage from it’s lead guards. Sucks even more to read it after I typed it. Presumably, if the team is doing better than expected, then Calderon must be playing well- right? All this is a big stretch, but a fan can dream lol

    32. If Sacto wasn’t run by imbeciles they should have moved Boogie for Smart and a heap of those future assets instead of getting fucking Rondo on a one year deal.

    33. I rarely watch baseball, but watched the Yankees last night because it was such a key game. I turned the game off in disgust and went to bed after Houston scored their third run. Then in the morning I realized that disgust was an inappropriate emotion. After all, at the start of the season the Yankees weren’t expected to be in the playoffs, but ARod played better than expected, they brought along a bunch of young players who did well, and they seemed to have good team chemistry. If the Knicks manage something like that this season (Melo plays better than expected coming off of injury, a lot of young players contribute, they have good chemistry and they make the playoffs but go out in the first round), that would be really successful. Of course, I’ll probably still turn the TV off in disgust after they lose meekly in the playoffs.

    34. “If Sacto wasn’t run by imbeciles they should have moved Boogie for Smart and a heap of those future assets instead of getting fucking Rondo on a one year deal.”
      How bizarre is it that the Celtics tried to trade 6 of that heap of future assets (four first round picks and two second round picks) to move up to the top 10 in this year’s draft and were rejected? If six late first and early second round picks can’t get you the right to draft Justise Winslow, how valuable are future late first and early second round picks? (At least Ainge acknowledged afterwards that maybe he got carried away and offered a little too much.)

    35. It is bizarre. But it seems like GMs really knew this was a very deep draft so picks in other drafts weren’t as good as picks in this one.

    36. If I was a Celtics fan, that draft day fiasco with Charlotte would scare the crap out of me. Most of Boston’s boatload of picks are lottery protected, and if the Nets have a decent season, those picks will be in the teens. Ainge’s plan has always been to stockpile picks and then eventually make a big play for a top free agent by offering players and picks, but I’m not sure who out there is biting. Plus, their most tradeable asset, Marcus Smart, had an underwhelming .491 TS his rookie season.

      So it remains to be seen whether Ainge is the genius GM we’re supposed to believe he is (and unfortunately for him, Kevin McHale isn’t a GM anymore)

    37. Yeah Ainge had one amazing off season and all of a sudden he is a genius. But having McHale hand him Garnett, who also wanted out, was a big part of that and some of that was luck/circumstance.

    38. If I was a Celtics fan, that draft day fiasco with Charlotte would scare the crap out of me. Most of Boston’s boatload of picks are lottery protected, and if the Nets have a decent season, those picks will be in the teens. Ainge’s plan has always been to stockpile picks and then eventually make a big play for a top free agent by offering players and picks, but I’m not sure who out there is biting.

      Trying to think of the last time that trading a superstar for spare parts / picks actually turned out well for the team that traded the superstar.

      CP3 trade – Clips win, by far.

      DH12 trade – Rockets win, by far. We’re now 3 years removed from that trade, and Orlando is still projected to win about 30-35 games.

      James Harden trade – Rockets win, by far. no explanation necessary.

      KG trade – Al Jeff, Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff, Telfair, 2 first rounds picks for KG. Hmm.

      Shaq for Odom, Brian Grant, Caron Butler + picks –> LAL stunk until they got Gasol in a separate trade. MIA wins a title with Shaq.

      The closest would probably be the Melo trade, although Denver, 3 years later, is not in great shape either.

      Gotta figure that teams have seen how these “tons of assets for your superstar” trades have gone, and are no longer willing to play ball. The only reason Presti accepted the Harden deal was because of the lottery-assured pick, and even that only turned into Stephen Adams, who is, well, ok. It’ll be really interesting to see what Philly and Boston are able to do with their piles of picks.

      Especially with the cap and owner profits exploding, there just aren’t going to be that many situations like the Harden situation — where a cheap owner forces a trade of a star. And we’ve seen that very few marquee players change teams in FA nowadays.

    39. The shaq trade was win-win. The Lakers got a key piece in Odom, a higher draft pick that season (Bynum) and assets that led to Gasol. The Heat got a title.

      Houston got Dwight in free agency. The Lakers/Orlando trade was won by the Magic.

      In general, I’d say it’s better to have the star, but its not an iron law

    40. Gotta figure that teams have seen how these “tons of assets for your superstar” trades have gone, and are no longer willing to play ball.

      On a specific note you left out the Love trade, which looks potentially okay for Minnesota – depends how you feel about Wiggins I guess.

      On a more general note though, ultimately the vast majority of these trades happen in situations where there’s no choice but to play ball, or let the player walk for nothing. Yes you’re probably not going to get fair value, but the question is whether you end up better or worse off than getting nothing. That’s a much harder question.

      I very, very strongly doubt that we have seen the last of such trades. Superstars on bad teams that make their intention to depart obvious are always going to get traded, and the most common return is always going to be a pupu platter of assets for the obvious reason that teams rarely have one asset valuable enough to land a star, and if they do, aren’t looking to trade it (unless they become the desperate team).

    41. In the NBA, getting one superstar is better than getting depth. This has to do with the small roster. Trading a bunch of assets for a great defensive lineman is just fixing 1 out of 22 starting jobs. In the NBA it’s fixing 1 out of 5 starting jobs. In baseball it’s 1 in 14/15 (if you add in starting pitchers and the closer. The slash is for the DH). A 20% upgrade of your team is more substantial than upgrading 4-7% of your starting team.

    42. I can think of several failed trades for big names. Knicks’ trades for Marbury, McDyess and Curry for starters.

      * Nets trade picks and young dudes for Deron Williams
      * Wizards traded young Rip Hamilton for prime Jerry Stackhouse, a year removed from 2nd in the league in PPG
      * Lakers traded multiple picks for Steve Nash
      * Nets trade boatload of picks for Pierce and Garnett
      * Nets trade picks for Joe Johnson
      * Nuggets trade multiple picks for Allen Iverson

      I could list more if I had the time. The problem is people overwrite the significance of these trades. When AI or KG or Pierce or McDyess show after being traded that they’re not prime players, people think, “Oh, well the Nets/Nuggets/Knicks should have known. That wasn’t a real trade for a star. It was clear that star was past his prime.”

      But if you go back and look at the pieces these teams gave up and the press at the time, you find that that wasn’t the case.

    43. Well yes – I think the Nets trade was obviously not great for the Nets – but was it great for Utah? They ended up with Favors who is a good player, Enes Kanter (walked for nothing and was an awful player), and Trey Burke, who is good as an 8th man. They’re good now because they had Gobert land in their laps. Not because of the Nets trade.

      No one in the history of the world ever thought Jerry Stackhouse was a superstar on the level of Harden, Dwight, Shaq, or even Carmelo.

      Steve Nash was 50 (60?) when the trade happened. I guess that counts. Win for PHX.

      KG/Pierce trade — for now (very early to say), it doesn’t look like a win for Boston. They tried to trade basically the entire haul of that trade for Frank Kaminsky and couldn’t get it done. They have 6 average PGs, and a team full of PFs that can’t defend.

      The Iverson Nuggets trade. Wow. Iverson went to Denver for 2 first round picks in 2007, Joe Smith, and Andre Miller. The 2 first round picks were #21 and #30. The #30 pick was traded to Portland for Derrick Byars and cash. The #21 pick was traded to Miami for… wait for it… Jason Smith. Jah. Hard to call that a win for Philly and a loss for Denver.

      The Joe Johnson –> Nets trade – obviously a win for Atlanta. Forgot about that.

      Anyway – my point remains that the vast majority of B-players + picks for A player trades end up favoring the team that lands the superstar. Especially with non-lottery picks, you run the chance of having to do what Boston just did, which is pick a couple players that you don’t want.

    44. I’m not sure how many of those “A” players were still “A” players at the time of the trades. Nash, KG/Pierce, and Iverson were all over 30 when the trades were made. It’s clearly a mistake to trade for one of those former “A” players and assume they would stay “A” players. How many of you here still think Melo is an “A”? Isn’t his age and the wear and tear on his body the biggest question mark?

    45. @GoNyGoNYGo

      Those players were in exactly the position that Melo is now. They had question marks for varying reasons but were still considered top level players at the time they were moved.

      @Frank

      If your measure of whether a trade was a success is whether the team ends up becoming a title contender, almost every trade is going to be a failure for both sides. In every trade I listed, the team that received the star ended up worse for the long term than had they not made the trade and didn’t improve enough in the short term to justify that long term sacrifice. The Nets would happily go back in time and undo Deron Williams trade if the could. No way Utah would. Same goes for every other trade I listed except maybe the Denver trade for Iverson.

    46. @Max – I’m in 100% agreement with you. But if you took a poll of posters here about Melo, the vast majority would say he’s a B+/A- player now. He might get ranked top-50 but not top-5 or even top-10.

      Would you trade 2 average starters and a draft pick for Melo? Probably not
      Would you trade 2 average starters and a draft pick for Steph Curry? You would think about it, wouldn’t you.

    47. “Would you trade 2 average starters and a draft pick for Steph Curry? You would think about it, wouldn’t you.”
      No, I wouldn’t think about it because I would be afraid that, while I was thinking, the Warriors might come to their senses and change their mind. I would say yes before the Warriors hung up the phone. I do think that, when people talk about trades, they often talk like all first round picks are created equal. For example, the Cavs gave up “2 first round picks” for Mozgov but those picks are likely to be in the 20s (and I think that one is protected and likely to become a second). As the Celtics proved, those picks are not nearly as valuable as a single top 10 pick — you know, like the pick that, depending on how this season turns out, the Knicks might have given up for Bargnani.

    48. for now (very early to say), it doesn’t look like a win for Boston.

      It’s a total win for Boston. The only question is will it be a WIN.

      You don’t even need to get into the trade exception or any deals that followed. Boston traded KG, Pierce and Jason Terry for, essentially, four unprotected 1st round picks. Four aging, past-their-prime veterans who weren’t going to do anything but keep you, at best, mired in mediocrity for another 2 or 3 years in exchange for FOUR UNPROTECTED FIRST ROUND PICKS?

      Melo right now is clearly better than any of those guys were at the time Boston traded them, but if a team was willing to offer just two unprotected 1st rounders for him?

      Mike

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