Knicks Morning News (2015.06.27)

  • [New York Times] Kristaps Porzingis Raises Eyebrows, Including Carmelo Anthony’s (Sat, 27 Jun 2015 03:09:05 GMT)

    Carmelo Anthony, 31, who has four years and nearly $102 million remaining on his contract, would apparently prefer not to wait for the Knicks’ top selection to pan out.

  • [New York Times] Nets’ Brook Lopez Will Be Free Agent (Sat, 27 Jun 2015 02:03:23 GMT)

    Coming off a strong season in his return from injury, Lopez chose on Friday to bypass the $16.7 million he would have earned next season. He will be able to talk to other teams July 1.

  • [New York Times] On College Basketball: Road to N.B.A. Is Taking Detour Around College (Sat, 27 Jun 2015 00:56:28 GMT)

    While it is still too soon to tell whether Emmanuel Mudiay’s journey through China to the N.B.A. draft marks the beginning of a trend, some young players might be lured by the riches associated with playing overseas as the N.C.A.A. sorts through legal battles.

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks’ Kristaps Porzingis ready to turn boos into cheers (Sat, 27 Jun 2015 02:05:52 GMT)

    Kristaps Porzingis and Jerian Grant both envision making contributions right away during their rookie NBA campaigns.

  • [New York Daily News] Isola: Melo upset but Knicks drafting Porzingis makes sense (Sat, 27 Jun 2015 02:00:21 GMT)

    Anthony told a close friend ‘are we supposed to wait two or three years for this guy?’ when discussing the 19-year-old forward.

  • Liked it? Take a second to support Mike Kurylo on Patreon!

    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    145 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2015.06.27)”

    1. So now Lopez opts out. I guess guys like him, JR, West, etc. are wanting longer term deals right now. I guess I can see that for West, given his age, but shouldn’t Lopez just take the money this year and become free next year when the cap goes way up and nearly all teams should have lots of cap space?

      Phil’s #1 target? Gotta be Gasol even though all the pundits say there’s no way that he’s leaving, except maybe to the Spurs, but even that is supposedly a very small chance. Monroe still seems more likely, though Boston supposedly covets him, too.

      Or, go for more of a defensive C like Robin Lopez for less $? Sign 2 expensive guys or spread the cap space out on 3-4?

    2. Yeah, we might as well make this the start of one. There are so many ways to approach this.

      1) Do we need to put together two lists? One with Melo on the Knicks and another with him gone?
      2) What positions do we need filled? I loved the graphic during the draft: Knicks needs – everything.
      3) Assuming the triangle, how do free agents fit into the scheme?
      4) Who are the FA’s you would consider and who are the ones you would rule out? Why?
      5) What FA’s should we cross off a list because there’s no chance we can afford them or that they would never come here?

    3. Regarding free agency and just to add a glimmer of hope , I believe that at least a few of the free agents would be willing to take a pay cut for at least this year or even consider taking just a 1 year deal in order to get a much bigger pay check next year because the cap will rise exponentially the next couple of years

    4. Does anyone know anything about John Jenkins of the Hawks? He’s a 6’4″ shooting guard who is 24. I know he’s not starter material, but his advanced stats are good and we need backups too.

    5. It seems pretty obvious that the Knicks need a starting C from free agency. The question is, an expensive one (Gasol, Monroe, Jordan, maybe even Aldridge) or someone a bit less expensive like Robin Lopez, Asik, or Koufous? The second tier guys lack offense and would be more for D and rebounding. But, perhaps that is best with Melo, Porzingis, Calderon, and hopefully a good shooting free agent wing (Greene? Carroll?) out on the perimeter? But, won’t the shooters get better shots with a low-post scoring presence? Gasol is the dream get since he’s does a bit of everything.

      Then, there’s the issue of who might actually be gettable. Supposedly Gasol is 99% likely to stay in Memphis, and Aldridge very likely to go home to Texas unless the Lakers seduce him. Boston is going to trade or sign someone to a max.

    6. If the powers of Twins are as strong as people believe then the Knicks might have a good chance at getting Ro. Lo. if his brother resigns with the Nets.

      Lopez, Koufos, and Ajinca are my three center choices. Hopefully one of Lopez or Koufos come cheap enough to offer 3-5m to Ajinca.

      My other want is one of Harris, Green, or Carroll.

      Cory Joseph is still on my wish list and if the Spurs can sign a big time FA Green and/or Joseph will probably be available.

      Lopez – $8m
      Harris – $13.5m
      Joseph – $6m
      Total – $27.5m

    7. Don’t know much about Jenkins, but the Knicks hopefully will go all out for Danny Green. That would give them, in the back court, Green, Calderon, Grant, and Galloway. Possibly returning on the cheap: one of Larkin, Ledo, Shved? I guess the Knicks might try to trade Calderon and his salary. But if healthy, he might help with outside shooting and mentoring Grant for a year.

      Just for laughs, Bleacher Report is predicting that the Knicks get Green, but that Monroe goes to Boston.

    8. I think Corey Joseph is out now that we picked up grant but I could be wrong

      My free agency would look something like this:

      Danny green (12m)
      Robin Lopez 8m
      Aminu
      Biyombo/ajinca/Ed Davis
      Cliff Alexander if he does well in training camp

    9. I like Robin Lopez, too, but the problem is that he has zero passing skills, IIRC. Not sure that Phil wants that in a starting post player. Also, can he command any kind of double team to help free up shooters?

      I think he could be a nice signing if Melo works a lot more off the post. Having Danny Green, Zinger, and maybe even Calderon in the game at the same time on the perimeter would be interesting.

    10. Green is an ideal fit and would provide great flexibility as he could play the 2 in conventional lineups and the 3 if we go small. A wing rotation of Green-Melo backed up by Grant/Galloway/Early or Thanasis isn’t bad.

      Looking beyond next year, Greg Monroe is an great fit at the 4/ 5 with Porzingis. He plays best on offense when he is paired with a stretch and has room to operate in the post. His deficiencies on defense mainly center around rim protection. In the ideal scenario, Porzingis adds strength and uses his length to develop into a shot blocking, rim protector. Looking 2-3 years down the road, a Monroe (who is only 25) Zingis front court could be a lethal 2 way combo. On offense, you could put Zingis at the 4 and Monroe at the 5 and on defense, you’d have Zingis as the rim protector to cover up for Monroe’s deficiencies.

      So while the defense would be brutal in years 1-2, thinking 2-4 years down the line Monroe is an ideal complement. If we can’t sign him, that’s another issue, but I don’t think we should prioritize an older guy with less upside, like RoLo. We’ve already committed to Zingis with our 4th pick, why not go all in.

    11. You know, there is such a thing as second best, and that seems to be in extreme jeopardy. Let’s say most here would agree that the best possible franchise moves would be (1) Trading Melo (2) Using cap space to acquire assets from teams looking to shed salary this year (3) Taking a couple of shots at getting young value in free agency, at a decent price: Joseph, Middleton, maybe Ajinca. But we now know that ain’t happening for the most part.

      Even given that, we seem to be on the verge of big mistakes. We are talking about getting “veteran bigs,” but the main rumors are swirling around David West and Greg Monroe. This is a disaster. Monroe isn’t such a bad player, but he is not a plus defender, and he is probably not going be much of a value starting at $15m, even with the cap rising. Anyone paying attention surely has to see how incredibly different it is to pair a 31 year old Melo with an offense-first power forward from pairing a 28 year old Melo with an elite defensive center.

      West was an excellent career defender but last year at age 34 looked like his first step off the cliff. He was markedly worse defensively and he is down to 16% from 3 feet or closer. He dunked 3 times in 1900 minutes. Odds are high that he is older Kurt Thomas with better passing going forward. Definitely not worthless, but not worth much either.

      This is not a good second-best plan. These guys take up too much room and leave a defensively horrific, shallow shell of team with no 1st rnd pick. There are guys the franchise shouldn’t sign that would nonetheless make more sense to make the team less awful in year where we have no pick. You could buy relatively low on Asik, who is kind of an annoying player but is still an actual defensive big for the most part. Danny Green fits. Amir Johnson depending on the price. Koufos. If you’re not creating the best NPV team, use the money to minimize long term risk and build a team that make more sense next year.

    12. It seems pretty obvious that the Knicks need a starting C from free agency. The question is, an expensive one (Gasol, Monroe, Jordan, maybe even Aldridge) or someone a bit less expensive like Robin Lopez, Asik, or Koufous?

      Does Monroe play C?

      (ps– I don’t know what to make of Monroe. Not only does his career this far look like a statistical Rorschach test, but his “similarity scores” compare him to the likes of Trooper Washington, Campy Russell, Cincinattus Powell, and other guys that sound like they played outfield for the Brooklyn Trolley Dodgers.)

    13. Wow, disagree on Monroe. Starting at $15 million, he’ll likely be a nice get (esp. once the cap goes up) unless the big, long contract makes him lazy (which is always possible). He gives you 3/4 of what Gasol does in a guy 5 years younger: low post scoring, defensive rebounding, and good passing. Yup, he’s a plodder and not a good defender, but he is a good fit with the Knicks and what PJ is trying to do.

      I think Danny Green should be the #1 target. The free agent C are likely to want to play the field and be wooed, and maybe wait and see who signs first and gets what. Green would be so nice a fit. Great defender, high bb IQ, shoots, can play 2 and 3. Get him quickly and then look at the C situation.

    14. If you sign Monroe, you need at least one other rim protector to hold down the fort until Porzingis is ready to play a larger role. Monroe/Melo at the 5 and 4 gives me flashbacks to the Curry/Randolph frontcourt, which was one of the worst rim protecting frontcourts in NBA history.

    15. Dipping into cap space that should be reserved for young, undervalued guys to sign David West would be just the kind of directionless bullshit that isn’t supposed to happen anymore. I really hope this doesn’t come to fruition because it truly makes no sense.

    16. Not only does his career this far look like a statistical Rorschach test, but his “similarity scores” compare him to the likes of Trooper Washington, Campy Russell, Cincinattus Powell, and other guys that sound like they played outfield for the Brooklyn Trolley Dodgers.

      Nice line. Not quite as good as DRed’s “coached by Gandalf” line, but nice.

      As for FAs, I was swayed by the analysis someone here did that Monroe w/o Drummond was statistically a superior offensive player and average defensive player. I think he is a good fit, and $15m isn’t overpaying, especially come 2016-2017. If we got him and Danny Green, that would form a solid nucleus to add one more player – possibly that player being the Zinger, if he improves enough in one year.

      Calderon/Grant
      Galloway/Shved
      Green/LThomas
      Melo/Zinger
      Monroe/Cole

      A very mediocre team, but with complementary pieces that could add up to more than the sum of the parts, good outside shooting to go with an inside game, good defense to offset bad. We would quite obviously be one great FA away from really being a great team, but we’d have room for one in 2016, and the base to compel that player to believe it worth coming to us. Especially if Zinger develops. And of course if Melo holds up.

      Big Ifs. But not hopeless.

      Biggest reason for hope? Bargs and THjr are GONE BABY GONE.

    17. @15 I agree that a Monroe/Melo front court would be a disaster. But we can probably agree that there are probably no moves we can make this offseason to turn is into a championship contender. Thus, it’s worth while to get Monroe on a reasonable deal through his best years right now. We’ll suck on D next year but we’ll also have options to figure out rim protection in the coming years. Hopefully, Porzingis develops into the player we hope he can become and solves the rim protection problem.

      Looking at the current free agent crop, these are the rim protecting guys available: Gasol, Jordan, RoLo, Chandler, Asik, maybe Wright or Koufos. Gasol and Jordan would be great, but I don’t see us signing them. Chandler isn’t coming back. I think Asik is a pretty useless player. Among RoLo, Wright and Koufos, I’d be okay with any of the latter two on team-friendly deals. I’m not super interested in RoLo, though. He’s a good defender but sucks at rebounding and doesn’t offer much in the way of offense. If he can be had between around $8 million/year then fine, but I see him getting paid upwards of $10, which is an overpay.

      I do agree that Danny Green should be a priority. Hopefully on a 4 yr/40 mil deal.

    18. Has anyone else seen the picture of all of the first round picks on stage at the draft? Porzingis towers over everyone. He is a good 3-4″ taller than Kaminsky and Cauley Stein and his shoulders are about even with Towns’s and Okafor’s noses. I don’t know what kind of player he’s going to be but he seriously long — and possibly still growing. If his wingspan really is 7’6″, his standing reach must be 9’6″ or higher. Summer league has just become must see tv.

    19. I don’t want to rush into signing a rim-protecting, paint-clogging center like Jordan. I did a 180 on Monroe once I looked more closely at his stats. How does a guy who was so good his first two years fall off a cliff? The answer appears to be Drummond and Smith. A .593 TS% on 26% usage over 800 minutes when neither of those guys was on the floor is staggering. And the defense was actually better when Monroe played sans Drummond and Smith. To me, that kind of Monroe efficiency would probably outweigh defensive weaknesses, especially if we have strong perimeter defenders (i.e., not Calderon). Possible lineups: Galloway and Grant/Danny Green or Carroll/Melo/Monroe/Zinger or room exception or 7m player (West?) if Phil trades Calderon/Early package. In the future, maybe Zinger adds enough weight/strength to play stretch 5 position. Let’s stay flexible and take this step-by-step. Remember people assumed a Bargnani/Melo/Smith/Shump/Felton lineup would be a disaster but that didn’t happen.

    20. Mike Dunleavy would be my room exception candidate but the Knicks might used that on Shved.

      Regarding West
      http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2015/6/26/8852883/knicks-free-agency-rumors-david-west-very-likely-to-sign-with-new-york

      Last year West played his fewest minutes (29 per) since first becoming a starter in 2006, averaging 12 points and 7 rebounds along with 3.5 assists (double his turnover rate). 98% of his career field goal attempts have been two-pointers. The man is a master of the midrange and proficient at posting and passing, all doubleplus good Triangle qualities. He’s aging but savvy: last year he shot 64% from three feet and in, the second-best mark of his career; the past two seasons are his first topping 50% on jumpers from 10-16 feet. His rebounding and assist percentages were both right around 20% last year. The only Knicks returning with an AST% over 20 are Jose Calderon and Alexey Shved; Cole Aldrich was the only Knick with a REB% that high in 2015.

    21. Ajinca and or Brandan Wright could be the best frontcourt values.

      I like Monroe, but I think he’s best suited as a center. You’d need an unconventional four and a strong perimeter defense, but he can be the centerpiece offensive player in such a situation.

    22. If Westchester Knick, Bachynski, joins the SL team they could really have some size. It has been reported that Galdikas is going to be on the team. The knicks have been looking at him for 3 yrs.

      Kristaps Porzingis – 7’3 230

      Ovidijus Galdikas – 7-1 245

      Jordan Bachynski – 7-2.25 265

    23. He’s aging but savvy: last year he shot 64% from three feet and in, the second-best mark of his career

      This is silly. He shot 15.9% of his shots from within 3 feet. It doesn’t matter what his percentage was. This is Bargnani territory (15% and 60%). Way lower than Lance Thomas, Shane Larkin and Quincy “3 &D” Acy.

      Greg Monroe is basically Kevin Love at the rim. He is just not a rim defender in any way, though he is decent against the PNR or against a post-up of a less player (power forward who is not Zach Randolph basically). The Knicks would be much worse than they seem with Melo (who provides about the same rim defense as your typical off guard but does some other things defensively sometimes) and Monroe as their main bigs.

    24. With Melo in a state of high dudgeon and CP3 not getting any younger and the Paper Clips short a certified scorer/shot creator, no one can envision a De Andre Jordan/ Melo exchange via SnT?

    25. Anyone know anything about Maurice Ndour who, apparently, will be on the Knicks summer league team?

    26. Well, the Knicks were just good enough defensively without rim protection in the Chandler years, so maybe Monroe, in the right environment, is good enough to offset that offensively, as Chandler did with o-rebounding, screen setting and as a threat in the pnr.

    27. Melo has been all over instagram supporting the Zinger pick, not that most of you want that to be true anyway.

    28. I think perceptions of the Knicks as a train wreck could change with one great signing. I think Phil has an excellent chance to get one of the top tier FA’s. He’s got the max and it is NY. Finishing 5th in the conference year after year is not necessarily worth the extra year of salary. Marc Gasol has a personal relationship with Phil. Why would Kevin Love want to stand in the corner in CLE for five years? They did just as well without him. Once someone like that comes on, then David West sorts out a cap friendly vet deal. The cards start to fall.

      Now, maybe there are better deals for less money and better pieces ultimately but Phil wants a foundational player if possible. He’s going to check in on the big boys before he starts to negotiate with Robin Lopez.

    29. @24 Well, if the David West rumors are true you’d be looking at Monroe, West, Melo and Porzingis as your main bigs, which I’ll agree isn’t exactly a lockdown defensive rotation.

      But say we signed Monroe at $15, West at $5, and maybe Jae Crowder at $7. That would give you a rotation of:

      1:Calderon/Grant/Galloway
      2:Galloway/Grant/Crowder
      3:Melo/Crowder
      4: West/Porzingis
      5: Monroe/Aldrich

      That’s not a world beating team next year, but West and Crowder probably give enough defensive toughness to get by with Monroe at the 5 and buy 1-2 years for Porzingis to develop as a shot blocker.

      I don’t see that many better options in FA… Fitting Danny Green in there would be ideal. I guess it depends how little you can get David West for.

    30. Most important is, Phil will know the difference and not pay a second tier guy top tier money. (Insert Melo irony here).

      Final comments on the draft: Jerian Grant is a steal. From what I’ve read I’m more psyched about Porgy (huh?). I think, after thinking why would PHI draft a C? and thinking we had Jahlil, I was disappointed, but after reading a few hundred posts I’m convinced it was a good to great move. I agree that SAS going bonkers made me strangely confident.

    31. Well, the Knicks were just good enough defensively without rim protection in the Chandler years,

      What does this mean? Chandler was a statistically superior rim protector in both 2011-12 and 2012-13, right up there with Hibbert, opponent PPP at the rim was excellent while he was on the floor. He got much worse in 13-14, and so did the Knicks defense. The do not currently have Chandler.

    32. West at $5

      West did not turn down $12.6 million to join the Knicks for $5 million. Why would he do that? We suck, and David West is intelligent.

    33. Melo has been all over instagram supporting the Zinger pick, not that most of you want that to be true anyway.

      Speaking of “true”, didn’t you make a certain prediction last year that turned out not to be true? And didn’t you attach a certain promise to that prediction, which you are not holding true to? (But never the less it’s kind of refreshing to have you back, extolling the virtues of Melo and talking down to the fans that actually weathered the worst season in franchise history while you were gone)

    34. West did not turn down $12.6 million to join the Knicks for $5 million. Why would he do that? We suck, and David West is intelligent.

      I have to think that Phil Jackson is also intelligent enough to not sign a 35 year old, declining player to a $10-12 million contract. So I don’t know why he would do that, but if the rumors are true I’m going to assume that West is coming here on a reasonable deal until I hear otherwise. It just doesn’t make sense any other way. And if the rumors are false, then whatever, players can be had to fill a similar role at $5/year. Amir Johnson? Jordan Hill?

      (But never the less it’s kind of refreshing to have you back, extolling the virtues of Melo and talking down to the fans that actually weathered the worst season in franchise history while you were gone)

      That’s kind of harsh. I mean what does “weathering the worst season in franchise history” even mean. I’m pretty sure that anyone who is still a Knicks fan today weathered that season. For instance, I watched almost every Knicks game every year until last year, when I stopped watching about 15 games into the season and never watched another game. Does that make me less of a fan? No, I just didn’t see the point in wasting time watching games while rooting for my team to lose so we could get a better draft pick.

    35. Melo has been all over instagram supporting the Zinger pick, not that most of you want that to be true anyway.

      Spoken like a 14-year old defending her favorite emo band.

    36. I don’t know why David West would opt out and I don’t know why we would want to sign him to anything more than a one year low money deal. None of it makes sense to me

    37. re: West.

      According to a story from an Indianapolis newspaper, “West made up his mind Tuesday, according to a source with knowledge of the situation. With the tread of 12 seasons in the league on his body, West will not command the same salary that would’ve been waiting for him next season with the Pacers. The choice appears to be more about finding a new fit. West did not want to simply “stay for the money,” a source revealed.” http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2015/06/24/indiana-pacers-david-west-opt-out-free-agent-contract-roy-hibbert/29227655/

      So maybe, for whatever reason, he’s convinced the Knicks and the triangle are the right fit for him and is going to come here for less money. I mean, if I were him I wouldn’t do it, but that’s about the only plausible interpretation I can think of.

    38. Just afew days ago it was a “fact” that no one would give up a 1st rounder for Hardaway Jr so who know what will happen in the NBA world.

      I think West will sign for a Pau Gasol type deal for 4 years instead of 3 but I do not know why he would sign that deal with the Knicks and not a contender.

    39. West is from NJ and has been paid 75 million over his career, so I guess it would be plausible he’d want to finish his career with the Knicks and doesn’t care solely about the money.

    40. West is from NJ and has been paid 75 million over his career, so I guess it would be plausible he’d want to finish his career with the Knicks and doesn’t care solely about the money.

      Man it would be so refreshing to have a guy on the team that’s not about the money.
      Still hard to imagine that he would take less guaranteed $, even if it was spread out over more years.
      Maybe it’ll be 2 years 15 MM or something like that. That would be just fine with me. (3 years 15 would be better)

    41. So maybe, for whatever reason, he’s convinced the Knicks and the triangle are the right fit for him and is going to come here for less money. I mean, if I were him I wouldn’t do it, but that’s about the only plausible interpretation I can think of.

      That seems insane on West’s part if it’s true. If we sign him we should only be paying him around $5M at most. For that money, couldn’t he go to Cleveland or LAC and have a chance to win a championship?

    42. Deandre Jordan and Danny Green please.

      Grant/Calderon
      Green/Galloway
      Porzingis/Green
      Anthony/Porzingis
      Jordan/Aldrich

    43. I would be shocked if West agreed to $5m to join a shitty team. When players say it’s not about the money, they usually don’t mean taking a 60% pay cut to join the worst team in the NBA. But sure, that would be okay if it happened.

    44. I don’t know why David West would opt out and I don’t know why we would want to sign him to anything more than a one year low money deal. None of it makes sense to me.

      Makes about as much sense as Atlanta’s draft day trade of its first round pick for one of the NBA’s worst players.

      Hard to believe there’s any such thing as order in the universe after that.

    45. Well, if the Knicks sign Jordan, that would immediately solve their problem of not having anyone who can get to the line …

    46. West is interesting. Is he worth 8-9 Mill on a two year deal? If not, what about 7 Mill? I mean, he’s younger and healthier than Marcus Camby was. He’s a great fit for the triangle, and a consummate pro for the locker room. I for one don’t think he’s washed up, and he might be a decent small-ball 5.

      When we won 54 games, guys talked about how Kidd, Wallace and Thomas (not really Camby) were vital in terms of veteran leadership. Would having him and Calderon expiring at the same time work in terms of cap space? Specifically, compared to tying up money in Monroe?

      I mean, if he wants $5 million, how can we say no to that?

    47. I would be shocked if West agreed to $5m to join a shitty team. When players say it’s not about the money, they usually don’t mean taking a 60% pay cut to join the worst team in the NBA. But sure, that would be okay if it happened.

      Yeah, I agree. I’m just speculating off of what the reports say. Also consider that if West joins here for $5-7 and we still have $20-22 to get two more guys, we wouldn’t be a shitty team anymore, probably a mid-level eastern playoff team, which is better than Indiana. Definitely puzzling that he wouldn’t go to a contender though. Of course it’s all conjecture at this point.

    48. I’m not particularly happy about all these David West to NY rumors. He’s a good ballplayer, but he’s probably beginning his decline. He might be useful as a stop gap for a year or two in the 6m range, but more years or more money and it’s simply not a good signing. If the Knicks want to move forward significantly, they are better off signing a younger and better player for more money for the long term. There are better options at PF available in free agency. Also, if they can get the right C, then Melo is available at PF and that would be even better.

    49. Makes about as much sense as Atlanta’s draft day trade of its first round pick for one of the NBA’s worst players.

      Hard to believe there’s any such thing as order in the universe after that.

      But there are hundreds of examples of GMs making bone-headed personnel moves. There are barely any examples of players leaving lots of money on the table to join terrible teams.

      (And if West is from NJ and wants to play for peanuts for his sucky old hometown team, he can play for the Nets, who at least pretended to play a sport that somewhat resembled actual basketball last year)

    50. So now we have Melo and Calderon for sure, and a bunch of kids: Zinger, Grant, Galloway, Thanasis, Labeyrie, Hernangomez, Early…and a bunch of mix-and-match maybe’s: maybe Ledo, maybe Shved, maybe Larkin, maybe Cole, maybe Smith, maybe Wear, maybe Amundson. Not roped into a single knucklehead, unless you put Melo in that bin. I mean, none of the young guys is even a sure-fire rotation player, but I suppose there is more actual hope that we will become a smarter, more patient franchise than there has been in a long time.

      Here’s another optimistic take: we got a #19 and #34 pick in a deep draft, two guys who could have been #10 and #25 in either last year’s or next year’s draft. That makes not having a pick next year a little more palatable.

    51. I have to hand it to Jackson. He took the best player available at #4, even though it was as far from a “win now” move as possible. Porzingis is the most “unknicksy” pick of the bunch. Culture change?!

      And trading Hardaway for Grant is a great move, and also, theoretically, sets the needle forward to the future, which is also a good sign.

      I’m so used to grading F work from the Knicks that it is alarming to give an A (and not even graded on the curve). (I feel kind of like Andy Dufresne giving Tommy his passing GED score after teaching him to read in the Shawshank Redemption)

    52. Wow, me and Z in harmony!

      I can’t say that I don’t go throught bouts of buyer’s remorse with Porzingis…especially with Winslow, WCS and Mudiay, in that order. But it is a pick for the future, no doubting that.

      And Grant, while intriguing, may not even be as good as TH2. But he’s an unknown, and clearly can pass at the very least.

    53. Jerian Grant seems like a different sort of cat. Apparently said in an interview with Jonah Ballow that his favorite player growing up was Rod Strickland. Wow – didn’t know Strickland had any kind of a following (even though he was a pretty good player). And check out these tweets from during the finals:

      @JerianGrant: If I’m a Cavs player I’m kinda thinking like how much do you want us to do when every possession is just a Lebron iso or post up.

      @JerianGrant: He’s def the best player in the world but where’s the offensive structure.

      Phil must have been like “you had me at hello”

    54. This team is starting from the ground.

      Until Wednesday we didn’t have nothing.

      West is a nice player and in any other situation I would be ok with him on the team but Phil should be looking at the future. He will be done by 2 or 3 years max.

      If we can’t find a good option for the years to came know, just hold the cap space and use it to absorb players on bad contract plus assets or an unhappy star demanding a trade.

      No reason to start signing meh players since next season will be around .500 at best.

    55. David West is probably worth $5 million or so in a vacuum, but he just makes no sense for us. If we lose out on a productive young player who has a chance to be on our next good team (Joseph, Aminu, Davis, etc.) because we signed David West that’s really shitty. I believe there’s value in good culture/locker room guys, but you really shouldn’t be paying a premium for them…

    56. With Melo in a state of high dudgeon and CP3 not getting any younger and the Paper Clips short a certified scorer/shot creator, no one can envision a De Andre Jordan/ Melo exchange via SnT?

      That, along with signing Butler, is my dream scenario.

    57. his favorite player growing up was Rod Strickland. Wow – didn’t know Strickland had any kind of a following

      Strickland and Harvey Grant were teammates for 2 years in Washington.

    58. The more I think about it the more I think that Zinger can be a solid contributor this season, playing the Jason Smith/Bargnani role. Check this out, Smith was assisted on crazy 73% of his shots while Bargs was assisted on 69%. That’s on a shitty team with some mediocre guards. Of course, Jason Smith is awful and still only scored with a 0.497 TS%, but you have to figure that is the worst case for Zinger, who does seem to have a sweet jumper, and will be taking more than Smith’s 0.8 3PA/36. I could see a Bargnaniesque TS% around 0.53, with a bit better rebounding (can’t be worse) and way more blocks.

    59. Does anyone knows if Andrew Bynum is alive and healthy. Wouldn’t mind to have him on the Knicks roster for the Vet. Min….

      I’ll be happy if we can get Caroll, Monroe and another big who can play defense and rebound the ball. It would be great if we can find another Priggy Smalls from Europe…but a younget and cheap one…

    60. Does anyone knows if Andrew Bynum is alive and healthy. Wouldn’t mind to have him on the Knicks roster for the Vet. Min….

      What is with Knick fans and their love of washed up, injury prone, malcontent big men? I’d take him only if he paid us for the roster spot.

    61. My biggest fear with Zinger is that he will try to do too much too soon and play in a way that sets him up for injury, like Gallo did. He’s taking so much criticism for being scrawny and soft that he may start to bang with bigger bodies, which should not be his game. Durant was smart for never getting caught up in that.

      Zinger has to learn to trust in his height and length, like Pau and Dirk and even Tyson did early on until they filled out. He should refine the hook shot and step back shots in the post (Even young Wilt scored a ton of his points on a step-back bank shot from 15 feet.) It would be a huge mistake for him to bang his way into position.

      Same thing on D, he needs to learn to play angles and use his enormous length, rather than to roughhouse with guys down low, to tap out rebounds rather than get into physical wars in the trenches.

    62. west seems intriguing except that his offense is now almost exclusively in the mid range which i’m sure is going to look extremely enticing to phil…. he’s best used in a low usage role and he might be able to hang on for a few more years as a spare part…

      but if he’s coming here expecting to start … that’s not gonna end well for us… we would honestly get a close approximation in him with bargs for probably half the money he’s expecting…

    63. Well, West is a good help defender while Bargs is one of the all-time worst help defenders. I’m still not high on the idea of bringing in West but let’s not get carried away and start comparing him to Bargs.

    64. West is an excellent passer, reasonable shooter, and good defender. He’s also tough, equivalent to a modern day Charles Oakley (blasphemy!). He’s a good fit for us depending on the price and years.

    65. west has been clearly better than bargs over their careers but west is also 35 ..

      what’s been in decline is his FTr which usually signals that he’ll need to turn into a spot up guy… alot of his value has been tied to his offense and if his offense isn’t efficient he’s just kind of average… which isn’t bad… but his price tag is going to be a lot higher than what the mid level is going to be…

      that’s if he doesn’t deteriorate physically which is a big risk… i think he’s just positioning himself in case NY strikes out on their primary targets which i think looks like Gasol, Jordan and Monroe…

    66. i love west a lot more subjectively going back to his new orleans days… he’s a pro through and through and would add a lot of value off the court esp for our young guys… and esp for porzingis… and i think that’s the main reason behind ny’s possible interest…

    67. “Carmelo’s always on my mind,” Jackson said. “He’s our favorite son. At this point in his life, that’s the way it should be. But the second most important thing is what we do for this franchise, and that’s our consideration. And I let Melo know that as we made this choice.”

      “But the second most important thing is what we do for the franchise”. That’s dripping with sarcasm. It’s a clear signal that Phil’s not here to be a figurehead while Creative Artists Agency calls the shots. The “and I let Melo know that as we made this choice” indicates that the two men had a conversation to this effect. I’m on Jackson’s side and I want to give him a chance to “buy the groceries” but Melo’s buy in is crucial so I hope the two are are able work together positively.

    68. but that’s about the only plausible interpretation I can think of.

      My plausible interpretation is that we’re getting Gasol or Love and West gonna slot in.

    69. Initially I was very anti West even though I really like him as a player. Like everyone else I sort of thought it is a waste of an asset that could be used for the long term rebuild going on and doesn’t make sense. But I am coming around on it (for the $6-$8 range) for two reasons that are linked. First, Melo just seems to need to have someone around him that he respects and maybe even fears a little bit otherwise he can get off track from an attitude perspective and potentially hurt culture. Second, I think the younger players will also need some serious leadership and it could be particularly helpful for Zinger. To me one of the major failures of the Sixers is that they have all these young guys just losing with no teammates to whoop their ass when they start fucking off in practice or in games. Also West is good for the system.

      Also could having a well respected vet help lure some of the higher level FAs? They know who the tone setters are on teams.

      Last comment: s&t Melo for Love? Who says no?

    70. Let’s hope we don’t trade him for Mo Cheeks

      +1000

      Great pedigree! There’s a dunk in the grantland piece that’s unreal. Strickland was one of my absolute favorites. I love this kid already.

    71. But I am coming around on it (for the $6-$8 range) for two reasons that are linked. First, Melo just seems to need to have someone around him that he respects and maybe even fears a little bit otherwise he can get off track from an attitude perspective and potentially hurt culture. Second, I think the younger players will also need some serious leadership and it could be particularly helpful for Zinger.

      I don’t disagree that it’s a good idea to have well-respected veterans around young players, but at that price tag you could acquire more young, potentially good players instead (e.g. Ed Davis, Cory Joseph, etc.). The price you should pay for player/coach types is a lot lower. Using the 2012-2013 team as an example, Kenyon Martin, Sheed, and Prigs made around the minimum while Kidd made $3 million (and outperformed that production wise, too).

    72. @73 all good points

      I’ve learned from the best, er!

      Dude, who are we getting? Why wouldn’t Gasol or Love come over? Why doesn’t anyone around here want Kevin Love? Why are we immediately going to plan B? Don’t we deserve plan A? Is Monroe better than Love?

    73. @79 I am under the assumption that West would be a far more productive player than Martin or Sheed. Obviously Kidds first half that season was special and was the biggest reason for the fast start. Understand your point about the value of that but there is going to be a lot of $ to fill out the roster in 2016.

    74. I am under the assumption that West would be a far more productive player than Martin or Sheed.

      Me too, but for a team that has playoff, not contending, aspirations. Unless you think West could be a real contributor to the 2016-2017 team (the first year in which we could feasibly contend), signing him does nothing for the team long-term. I say spend every cent this offseason on guys who could be here for 5+ years, and then when/if the team looks like it could be on the cusp of something, find your Martin/Sheed types.

    75. My biggest fear with Zinger is that he will try to do too much too soon and play in a way that sets him up for injury, like Gallo did.

      Shit, man, I totally forgot that that was how Gallo first fucked himself up. Damn, now you have me worried about something I wasn’t worrying about until this point! Boo! ;)

    76. Has anyone else seen the picture of all of the first round picks on stage at the draft? Porzingis towers over everyone. He is a good 3-4? taller than Kaminsky and Cauley Stein and his shoulders are about even with Towns’s and Okafor’s noses.

      Yeah he’s 7’3″ in sneakers. It’s kind of laughable to be talking about him as a perimeter player when we might have the next Kareem. He doesn’t need a sky hook, just complete extension on a jump hook and the ability to spin left if overplayed. And he’s stated he doesn’t want to be a perimeter player in the image of “soft” Europeans of the past. As a bonus, he could be our rim protector.

      I suspect Phil will go for something like West (3yr/21m), Koufos (8m/yr), and Green or Carroll (11-12m). I understand the appeal (3>2, veteran presence, defense) but I don’t think we should pass on a very good young player. IF you believe Monroe could provide .580TS% on 25% usage and average defense at 16m, you have to take that. Efficient shot creators are scarce and we need to reduce our reliance on Melo. There will be shot-blocking centers available in the future but Monroes will be fewer and far between. So given 27m: IMHO Monroe (15.8m) and Green or Carroll (11-12m).

    77. Picking Prozingis was a dumb move, regardless of how it turns out.

      The knicks are not in a position to gamble on their draft choices. Golden State is.

      When it’s 15-40, match point against you, you don’t take a big gamble on a winner. When you’re down by two runs in the bottom of the ninth with no outs, you don’t try to stretch a triple into a home run. When you’re on the 2 yard line, you run the ball in.

      When you manage a weak, beaten down NBA team that has sucked for over a decade and you get the #4, you pick a solid player that you know will be good, not try to squeeze a little extra with a big chance of it going kaboom.

    78. In NBA years, the knicks are a kindergarden team and D. West is 102 years old.

    79. I really like that noted Knicks troll and simultaneously most plugged in guy everywhere else in the league said, “I think Porzingis will be a star in New York. More elite GM’s believe in his talent than any other player in this draft.”

      That carries a little bit more weight to me than anything else I’ve read before or after drafting Porzingis.

    80. And who was that solid player that you know is going to be good?

      Justise Winslow? He fell all the way to 10 because he’s a tweener.

      Emmanuel Mudiay? He’s as big a risk as Porzingis, because his shot is a brick generator.

      Willie Cauley-Stein? There are concerns about his foot, and his offense is suspect.

      Marjo Hezonja? He’s white and European, so he’s no good according to hoola.

      Frank Kaminsky? Nope. White.

      Stanley Johnson? Kinda questionable on the offensive end.

      Which player available at four was a no-doubt solid NBA player? I’d say none.

    81. @85 See, I disagree. Koufos, Green/Carroll and West gives us a smart, gritty team. I’m not sold on Monroe’s b-ball IQ. Not sure why, but he just seems like a guy who’s pretty good at low-post scoring and so-so to lousy at everything else.

      Ultimately, Phil was brought in to judge talent and build a team based on his judgment and his alone, at least, that’s what most of us had hoped. We can quibble about whether he got max value or not in any of the trades he made, he is committed to finding players who can understand and play his system. West is a very smart player who can shoot, pass, rebound, defend and make good decisions. The value of that kind of player always gets underestimated. Case in point: Rasheed Wallace. during his time with us before he broke down, he made a huge difference on the court, even as a shell of who he was in his prime. Same with Jason Kidd. Those guys were 5 years older than West, though.

      Phil is placing a premium on b-ball IQ, and if he thinks that Old West at $8 million for 2 years (hopefully not 3) plus another smart complementary FA is worth more (in terms of developing a team in his vision) than Young Monroe at $16 million, its hard for me to argue with him.

    82. I came around on the pick. He may more nba ready than we think. If not develop him. But he’s super tall and Mobile and thAt can’t be bad

    83. Picking Prozingis was a dumb move, regardless of how it turns out.

      The knicks are not in a position to gamble on their draft choices. Golden State is.

      When it’s 15-40, match point against you, you don’t take a big gamble on a winner. When you’re down by two runs in the bottom of the ninth with no outs, you don’t try to stretch a triple into a home run. When you’re on the 2 yard line, you run the ball in.

      When you manage a weak, beaten down NBA team that has sucked for over a decade and you get the #4, you pick a solid player that you know will be good, not try to squeeze a little extra with a big chance of it going kaboom.

      All of your examples are scenarios in which you’re on the cusp of winning. The Knicks are not. So…you’re pretty much entirely off base in your assessment as precisely zero of your examples apply to the Knicks current situation. I like the gamble. No pick in ’16 and in dire need of a major talent infusion, might as well go for the risky hail Mary.

    84. I also think Zinger is more NBA ready than initially discussed. Some folks were saying that his at the rim game was only as a roller/finisher but i have seen plenty of highlights and commentary as a driver w some level of handle. If he is being guarded by a big that seems like an advantage. If he is being guarded by a Draymond type he can shoot over or try and get good enough position to drop the jump hook. All this while developing some post game.

    85. All of your examples are scenarios in which you’re on the cusp of winning.

      Re-read my post. Just the opposite. When you’re in the hole and got to dig out, be a little more conservative. Here’s another one. When the count is 0-2, you swing to make contact, not the fence.

      I hope Prozingis is everything Phil hopes he can be. I hope Phil looks like a genius in five years. Still, it was a bad risk to take. This team needs a guy that they know will be a productive NBA player.

      Today, it’s more exciting to have Prozingis and his outer worldly potential. In six months, you may be whining for a decade about not taking WCS or Mudiay.

    86. Yeah, and in six months Mudiay might still be a guard with an incredibly fugly shot who shoots under 60% from the stripe and WCS might be sitting on the sideline in a suit and tie because his foot is fucked up. Zinger was a reasonable enough pick at #4.

    87. Yeah, and in six months Mudiay might still be a guard with an incredibly fugly shot who shoots under 60% from the stripe and WCS might be sitting on the sideline in a suit and tie because his foot is fucked up. Zinger was a reasonable enough pick at #4.

      I’m a little surprised you’re so in support of this guy considering how aware you are of the defensive needs of this team. Regardless, I hope you’re right.
      Zingis has the potential to be a very exciting player. If it blows up, it’s another big setback.

    88. 6 months is all you need to form an opinion on how a player’s career would turn out?

      Interesting evaluation process.

    89. The Knicks don’t have a real superstar and they are very unlikely to get one via trade or in free agency (outside an extremely chance for Durant next year) . That’s the exact time you are supposed to swing for the fences. It’s when you already have the core superstars you should be looking for low risk singles and doubles to fill out the team. The Knicks need a miracle. They went for one. It was the right move if your goal is to win a championship some day.

    90. I’m not sold on Monroe’s b-ball IQ. Not sure why, but he just seems like a guy who’s pretty good at low-post scoring and so-so to lousy at everything else.

      The reason you may believe he’s a low IQ player is because he bricked a lot of outside shots (just like Josh Smith) the last 3 years. But the reason for that is that Drummond provided zero spacing for him to work in the post. He had to take what the defenses gave him. He knew Detroit was committed to Drummond so he took the piddling QO to become a UFA this summer. From a cursory review of some blogs 3 weeks ago, I didn’t find many negative comments about him. He’s focused on and improved his overall defense since entering the NBA. It appears he’s a good teammate. He’s a good rebounder and passer and not the plodding player people generally envision when they hear his name.

      Phil is placing a premium on b-ball IQ, and if he thinks that Old West at $8 million for 2 years (hopefully not 3) plus another smart complementary FA is worth more (in terms of developing a team in his vision) than Young Monroe at $16 million, its hard for me to argue with him.

      It strikes me as more of a win-now approach and by that I mean make the playoffs. The thread-the-needle strategy in terms of balancing long and short-term was always gonna be difficult and here’s one of the forks in the road. Go West Young Man is not possible in this case; it’s Go West or Go Young Man. I’d rather Phil prioritize picking up and developing the best young talent over the next two summers over short-term success.

    91. Re-read my post. Just the opposite. When you’re in the hole and got to dig out, be a little more conservative.

      When you’re in a hole, maybe. But the Knicks are in a hole at the bottom of the Grand Canyon. None of the other players left on the board has a good a shot at getting the Knicks out of that hole as Dr. Doom (you’re welcome Massive, I see you trying to push that nickname). That’s not to say that he has even a good chance at being that player, but it’s still a better chance than who was left.

      I was initially lukewarm to the pick, but that had more to do with getting my hopes crushed that Okafor was gonna fall to us. Now that I’ve gotten over that, I’m excited to watch Zinger develop (if he does).

    92. Definitely not supposed to play it safe when you’re in a deep hole. If you play it safe when you’re in a deep hole, you’re almost guaranteed to lose. If there’s 2 min left in a football game and you need 3 touchdowns, I don’t recommend running the ball. Throw the hail mary and risk the interception.

    93. I wasnt happy at all when the Knicks selected the Zinger but it was more frustration of the fact that neither Russell or Okafor fell to #4. There was no clear cut choice for the Knicks, I was just hoping they traded down to get another asset or 2. BUT the trade of TH2 for Grant changed my perspective because they essentially did what I wanted, they got an extra asset so now Im fine with the Zinger pick and am looking forward to watching him develop.

    94. It looks like most people here are on board with Zinger. Surprising, considering the endless discussion in the weeks preceding the draft, so few people wanted him at the #4.

    95. But I disagree. IMHO, the short-term view is to grab a FA that probably is the best you are going to get right now, but who has a ceiling that will never justify his max salary, nor will he get equal value in a trade. He’s like a David Lee-level player, i.e. a good piece but not worth the money he’s getting paid (not that he doesn’t merit the pay, just that I don’t want to be the one paying him.) Monroe will get and deserve the max, but I don’t want to be the one paying him, especially with the team we have right now. We have a million young guys already. I’d rather wait a couple of years with West and Koufos have the other young guys become better because of West’s veteran leadership.

    96. The Hernangomez deal bears watching, too. The #35 pick in a deep draft for two 2nd rounders way in the future is interesting. I read that he has 1 more year to play in Europe. If he continues to improve, he might be the equivalent of a mid to late 1st rounder next year. Check out the DraftExpress write up on him.

    97. FWIW: ” “Honestly, I think Kristaps should be the No. 1 pick if you’re going to base it off potential,’’ Landry said. “I personally think he’s the best kid in the draft. And I’m not saying that because he’s a friend of mine. “I know basketball. I’ve been in the NBA; I’ve been around NBA players. I’d tell you if he sucks. But he’s really good. If he goes beyond No. 2, that would be a mistake on some team’s part.’’
      Landry, who played for the New York Knicks and Boston Celtics during the 2009-2010 season and has been playing mostly overseas since, was asked to compare Porzingis to a current NBA player.

      It didn’t take him long to respond.

      “That’s very hard to do,’’ Landry said. “To me, there’s no one in the NBA like him. No one. But, if I had to compare him to anybody based on his potential, I would say — maybe he’s not going to fill it up as much — it would be Kevin Durant. He’s very much KD like.

      “I know that’s saying a lot. But Kristaps can shoot over guys, he can put the ball on the floor for a big guy, he can pass well. Things Kevin Durant can do.’’

      That shouldn’t be construed as Landry believing Porzingis will be the second coming of Durant. But Landry is convinced Porzingis will become a household name in a few years.

      “He’s easily an All-Star type player. Easily,’’ Landry said. “He has the potential to be a great player.’’

    98. hoola, I am OK with swinging for the fences with any well-scouted consensus top 5-10 pick. I would also have been OK with taking WCS, or Winslow, or even Mudiay, Hezonja or Johnson…all were projected in the top 5 at some time. On the other hand, I wouldn’t think I got a sure-fire franchise-changing star in either Russell or Okafor. At the end of the day, you either respect Jackson and like what he’s doing, or you don’t. I have liked pretty much every move he made, at least initially, although I concede he probably could have gotten more in each deal. You have hated pretty much everything he has done, and now is no different. The bottom line is that I like the culture of the team much better now than I did in the 54-win season, and this pick is in line with thinking about the future more than the present, so I’m good with Porzingis.

    99. I’m a little surprised you’re so in support of this guy considering how aware you are of the defensive needs of this team.

      The team has defensive needs, but it also has offensive needs. The team needs guards, forwards and centers. It needs ball handlers, shooters, rebounders, rim protection, outside scoring, inside scoring… There’s no sense in drafting for need when your needs are “everything.”

    100. But I disagree. IMHO, the short-term view is to grab a FA that probably is the best you are going to get right now, but who has a ceiling that will never justify his max salary, nor will he get equal value in a trade. He’s like a David Lee-level player, i.e. a good piece but not worth the money he’s getting paid (not that he doesn’t merit the pay, just that I don’t want to be the one paying him.)

      It really boils down to your view of Monroe. In his first two seasons in the NBA playing center, he put up WS/48s of .143 and .161 at the ages of 20 and 21. He had an average TS% of about .570 on just under 20% usage. That’s damn good for any player in his first two years. In 800 minutes without Drummond and Smith this season, he posted a TS% of .593 on 26% usage. That’s elite! I posted this a while back but only KD, AD, Curry, and two other players (I forget who) had a >TS% in 800+ minutes at >= 25% usage. And he’s a great fit for the Triangle since he’ll draw double teams and he’s a good passer. His rebounding rate is solid and would probably have been higher when you factor in Drummond vacuuming up a lot of the boards. He’s become at least an average defender but he’s not a rim protector. To me, he’s a bargain at 15.8m.

    101. I’m coming around on the idea of Greg Monroe because I think he has a good chance of being an elite offensive player in his prime. I also feel the same way about Enes Kanter (except he already has put up elite numbers offensively for OKC), and he might come cheaper. I’d welcome either player, honestly. Defensively they’d be hard to make up for, though. Really tough, but you can always find a Birdman type to be your first big off the bench I think.

    102. Kanter is an absolute sieve on defense; Greg Monroe is average. I don’t want Kanter.

      I’ve been plugging Monroe ad nauseam but he’s the best realistic option out there. Also, it might be possible to get Wes Matthews on a 2 year, player option deal at $8 million/year. So maybe you throw 15 at Monroe, 8 at Wes, 7 at David West. Or maybe the West rumors are wrong and we give that 7 to Koufos, Ed Davis, or Jordan Hill. There’s a lot of options out there for secondary guys, but Monroe is one of the only top tier guys (and I’m using “top tier” liberally here) that we have a good shot at.

    103. As you mentioned Monroe is pretty fantastic with spacing. Ideally, you’d want to pair him with a guy who stretches offensively, triangle or not, and rim protects for him…. Yeah, like Zinger may be able to.

      Zanzibar, Monroe’s Reb % jumped to 20.4 with Drummond off the floor: http://nbawowy.com/#/rebounding

      That’s Tyson Chandler-esque.

    104. Yup Monroe , Wes and West would be nice. Only issue is that we would be missing shot blocking

    105. There are so many better options in the frontcourt than David West.

      And you have to think the odds of the Knicks landing one of Green, Carroll or Matthews have to be decent, and one of them would be far and away the best wing/2 guard Melo’s every played with.

    106. monroe’s been hated on so long that he’s actually underrated now…. he’s not without flaws but he can be part of a winning team… i liken him to zach randolph and if porzingis can turn into a decent defender we can replicate alot of the same success the grizzlies have had… if melo ages gracefully and grant becomes a player.. you can see glimpses of a team that can make some noise…

      that’s a lot of ifs but it starts with getting talent and monroe’s got that and the age to go with it… that’s pretty rare in the ufa world we are in now and we should do everything we can to get him…

    107. Also interesting to note that Monroe’s defensive +/- are almost completely inverted with Andre Drummonds, which is also confirmed by their respective DBPMs.

    108. Sorry, I’m not a big believer in the “Monroe was great with Drummond off the floor” theory. Monroe hasn’t sniffed the playoffs and in his forst couple of years he piled up meaningless stats on a terrible team. If he can’t figure out how to be effective with Drummond on the floor, sounds like a b-ball IQ problem to me.

      As to his passing, he averages more turnovers than assists. That’s not the sign of a good passer.
      His defense is mediocre at best, and that’s half the game.

      I won’t be bummed if we sign him, but won’t be excited either, not at $16 million per.

    109. I think if the Knicks go Monroe they need to get Ajinca and gamble on him playing 20+ minutes next year. He is the only big that is cheap, spaces the floor, rim protects, and rebound.

      I also, think it is okay if the Knicks do not get everything they need this summer. The problem is David West really will take away money that could go to a player that could really fit the team. The only way it works is if he comes for the room exception which is highly unlikely.

    110. I keep reading reports of us signing guys like Lopez, West, Koufos and guys like that as part of getting 3 players instead of 2. I really don’t care if we sigh players like that as short term stop gap fillers, but if we give guys like that long term contracts we are never going to win a championship. We should be focusing on guys that can be part of a core championship run like Green, Wesley Mathews, possibly Monroe depending on your view of him etc… We should only sign guys to long term contracts if they are young, GOOD, have some upside left, fit into team and long term plans etc…

    111. Wait, it’s a basketball IQ problem if a rim-oriented big man’s numbers go down playing alongside a center with a .504 TS who can’t make shots/ is not guarded outside of 3-feet?

      Purely a coincidence his numbers are dramatically better (in a 5,000 + minutes sample) with floor cloggers like Smith and Drummond on the bench?

      Playing on non-competitive teams may help with volume stats, but I highly doubt it would inflate a player’s efficiency, which is primarily what we’re talking about.

      He’s a very good high post/pinch post passer, and there’s plenty of reason to believe that when the Knicks are in the triangle it will naturally place him in spots where he’s already proven to be highly effective against defenses in more vulnerable positions than he’s used to seeing.

      Pau Gasol’s assists skyrocketed in year 5 (more than doubled his apg), perhaps because Memphis surrounded him with better floor spacing, moving out Stromile Swift, Bonzie Wells for more 3-point shooting.

      Monroe and Melo could be better than what everyone thought Amar’e/Melo could be (when you consider the rebounding, passing and defensive edges Monroe has over a prime Amar’e).

      Yeah, the Knicks are going to have to outscore teams until Porzingis is ready to play a lot of minutes (assuming his length, athleticism and instincts translate to rim protection), but with shooting around them they’re going to outscore teams more times than not.

    112. Strato, all of the UFA/RFA wings outside of Middleton (who the Knicks should offer a max) are either entering or in the middle of their primes.

      Monroe is 24 without an injury history and who has a game not dependent on springs nor will it be as likely to succumb to the jumping injuries other bigs (like DeAndre Jordan) will.

      He’s not a complete player, but it just so happens the Knicks drafted what could become his IDEAL complement.

    113. Greg Monroe is the ideal basketball player for the triangle, IMO. He’s one of the best rebounders in the NBA and he can run a two man game with Carmelo Anthony. I would pay him a max contract this season and wouldn’t complain about it. Adding Greg Monroe and Danny Green, to me, would be a big win because you’re getting two good basketball players that do things the Knicks need sorely. Wes Matthews would also be good, but his health scares me right now. No to David West. I would rather we go after Jordan Hill.

    114. You can view building an NBA as an allocation of your cap space. If you don’t allocate the money you have under the cap space efficiently, then you’ll struggle to compete. Because of market forces, most inefficiencies disappear.

      NBA teams have only a handful of places they can get more bang for their buck:
      1) Rookie contracts
      2) Max contracts
      3) Player improvement

      Either a player is so good that no team can offer him a properly valued contract, a player is set on a fixed rookie deal, or a player signs a near at-value contract and then improves enough to outperform that contract.

      Now, max contracts take center stage in the next 2 or so years. Not only do teams have a chance to sign above max contract players, they have the chance to sign those players to deals that will be well under the max for the foreseeable future. This also means that players somewhat near max contract value in the current cap environment will exceed that max contract value by simply not declining in skill too fast.

      In addition to the favorable max contract situation forthcoming, Greg Monroe has shown in his 800 minutes w/o Drummond and Josh Smith that he may improve if his team simply provides him with more space. He’s also at an age, 25, that most consider an NBA player’s peak and played enough seasons to be offered a veteran’s max. Not only will Monroe be cheaper than other near max free agent big men, he’s less likely to regress than they are. So Monroe fits two of the areas under which an NBA team can find value, a max contract and player improvement. Do I think Monroe is one of the best players in the NBA? No, he probably isn’t. However, due to the unique salary cap position that the NBA is in, every team will try and take advantage of it and Monroe seems like one of the best bets this offseason.

    115. @66
      Last time we won 54 games, it was with a roster full of “washed up, injury prone, malcontent big men”…
      Andrew Bynum with a bad knee is better than all those clowns we have right now as “big men”. High risk…High reward! Isn’t that the new trend around here??? And if K-Mart is healthy, bring him too. I preffer a bunch of “washed up, injury prone, malcontent big men” who know how to rebound and give a few good old fouls, instead of all those clowns running up and down the court getting smacked….

    116. Looks like Cliff Alexander signed with the Nets, which is pretty annoying. Alexander was widely seen as a bust with Kansas but he played very well on a per-minute basis, had a TS% up around .600 and 12 boards, 3 blocks per 40. I loved Alexander’s potential coming into the NCAA season as a bruising 90’s style power forward, and he is a lottery level talent. His season at Kansas was ruined by shady dealings with an agent, and he was eventually deactivated for the last month of the season, but I think he’s still a good prospect.

    117. I’m fine with Monroe, but the West stuff doesn’t make any sense with Monroe, so it appears to me that West is a back-up plan in the eventuality that Monroe spurns the Knicks for the Celtics, which seems more and more like a strong possibility.

    118. The initial comment about black players was out of line (whether it was your intent or not, hoolahoop, the comment plainly suggested a dichotomy that does not exist) so I’ve deleted it, but I’ve also junked the angry insults back and forth in response to the original comment. Be civil, folks. You can obviously disagree with each other without insulting each other. So do that.

    119. I think you could still see Melo at the 4 with West as a small ball 5. But yes, it seems unlikely. Obviously it would be completely impossible if West and Monroe both sign here. I don’t think that pairing (West/Monroe) is likely, though.

    120. Brian
      Saying african-americans are great ballers, and that euro-projects are higher risks to draft is out of line?
      Just the mention of race and people freak out.
      Where does the PC end?

    121. Towns, Russell, and Okafor were the cream of this draft. In the next tier, there weren’t 1 or 2 obvious stand-outs that the Knicks bypassed to draft Porzingis.

      Hypothetically, what’s the difference of fan opinion if the Knicks had reached to draft Jerian Grant at 4 with the rationale that he’s a more mature, proven version of Mudiay who’s ready to contribute right away and then picked up Porzingis in a trade further down (let’s say, with the Hawks 15th pick that was actually traded to the Wizards)?

    122. I’m fine with Monroe in the abstract, but not with Melo. Even if he’s just slightly below average defensively, his weakness is help defense. That means you need a second big to handle that (like Memphis has with Gasol) and to ideally space the floor some (like Memphis has with Gasol).

      Even if the Knicks sign a dude like that, that means moving Melo to SF, and he just can’t defend SFs anymore.

      However, if Melo does move on, Porzingis/Monroe is actually a pretty interesting front court. Monroe has the strength to contain post ups, and Porzingis has the size and mobility to patrol the paint and contain penetrators.

      I guess you could get away with Monroe/Melo frontcourt with excellent perimeter defenders, and Grant may fill one hole while there are some decent SF defenders out there in FA land in Crowder and Caroll, but that seems a lot like a patchwork solution where you’re not maxing the value you get from the team’s talents.

      There’s also the problem of having just spent a ton of money on long contracts for front court players when you just drafted a big.

    123. i’m pretty sure we’re gonna look back on this draft and say that justise winslow and bobby portis would have way better with both of those picks…

    124. i’m pretty sure we’re gonna look back on this draft and say that justise winslow and bobby portis would have way better with both of those picks…

      I think it is very possible that one of the other guys from #5-10 will end up being better than Zinger, but if the Knicks had drafted Winslow, WCS or Mudiay, I’d say the same thing. The problem with this draft was not taking Zinger, it was being fourth in a draft with only three clear stud players. That just sucked. It was awful. And it was brutal watching Okafor go one pick before the Knicks. But that damage had been done back at the lottery. The Draft itself was just a question of picking which one the Knicks like best – they had so many holes that any one of the bunch would have been a fine pick. Now we just have to hope that the Zinger works out.

    125. That was the biggest misnomer of the draft… justise absolutely belonged in the discussion with russell and okafor… most analytic models held him in higher regard than either of them… he was a perfect fit here also…

      justise going to miami has kawhi to the spurs and granger to the pacers written all over it…

    126. I do agree that it was absurd that he dropped to #10, but I don’t think he was in the same class as the top three. But sure, he would have very much been a fine pick at #4. That he dropped to #10 was shocking. It really does seem like a case like you describe, where people made the same exact mistake they made in Leonard’s draft.

    127. It should be interesting to see who has the better pro career- Winslow or Stanley Johnson. To me Johnson has the potential to be an all-NBA defensive player. He’s built like a tank and plays defense with a real chip on his shoulder, moves his feet extremely well and fights hard for rebounds. Winslow is a very good defender in his own right but is just not as physical as SJ. He’s more of an active hands/hustle defender. Winslow would seem to have the edge on offense and is probably the better two-way player, but Johnson might be something really special on defense. He has the same kind of freakishly strong and mobile athleticism that Ron Artest had when he was a young player, and unlike Artest, SJ seems to really have his head screwed on straight.

      There were better prospects in this draft, but Stanley Johnson is probably my favorite player in the draft this year, just from a fan standpoint. I’ll be rooting for him.

    128. Johnson is fine, and he would have been an excellent pick at #10 for the Heat, as well (I hate that in a draft where #4-11 can give you a guy with a legit chance of being a very good player, the Knicks had to be drafting 4th. Ugh!!), but I think Winslow is the better talent, so I was very surprised to see Stan Van Gundy think otherwise.

    129. I also think Winslow has the best chance of being a star out of the top 10. He will learn a lot if Wade comes back.

      But on the other hand, it’s hard to measure how much easier things were for Winslow having Okafor always drawing 2 guys on offense. We just won’t know for another year or so.

      And I still think Zinger was the highest ceiling of what was left. We could have a 7’4″ Larry Bird on our hands. I also think it’s great that Jax drafted his front court mate for comfort level. I’m happy with the Zinger pick.

      I just wish we could dump Mr. LaLa…

    130. Zinger definitely has the highest ceiling period of the options at #4. I think Mudiay had the highest reasonably attained ceiling (improving your shot at 19 is not a guarantee, but it happens often enough that I think it is reasonable to think he can do it, and if he does it, then he’s roughly John Wall – depending on how much he improves his shot, as he’s nowhere near as fast as Wall, but Wall is still a pretty bad shooter, so a slower Wall but with a better shot is still a superstar), while Winslow was the most likely guy of the group to hit his ceiling (his ceiling is just lower than the other guys).

    Comments are closed.