Knicks Morning News (2015.06.12)

  • [New York Times] LeBron Has ‘Slight Headache’ After Collision With Camera (Fri, 12 Jun 2015 06:49:57 GMT)

    Cleveland Cavaliers forward LeBron James needed stitches to close a bloody cut on his head after a hard collision with a courtside camera during Game Four of the NBA Finals on Thursday.

  • [New York Times] Warriors Top Cavaliers, Take Command of NBA Finals (Fri, 12 Jun 2015 05:59:04 GMT)

    The top-seeded Golden State Warriors rediscovered their scoring touch and tied the NBA Finals at 2-2 with a momentum-stealing 103-83 victory over the Cleveland Cavaliers on Thursday in Game Four.

  • [New York Times] Iguodala Delivers Clutch Performance in Rare Warriors Start (Fri, 12 Jun 2015 05:58:58 GMT)

    Getting his first start of the season on the game’s biggest stage, Golden State Warriors forward Andre Iguodala delivered a standout performance that may ultimately prove to be the turning point in the NBA Finals.

  • [New York Times] Bloodied and Beaten, LeBron Has Off Night in Game 4 Loss (Fri, 12 Jun 2015 05:47:01 GMT)

    LeBron James was bloodied and later beaten.

  • [New York Times] Warriors Even NBA Finals, Beat Cavaliers 103-82 in Game 4 (Fri, 12 Jun 2015 05:29:02 GMT)

    Stephen Curry shook off Iman Shumpert with a dribble, stepped back behind the line and splashed a 3-pointer that seemed to submerge a mute button on rocking and rolling Quicken Loans Arena.

  • [New York Times] Warriors 103, Cavaliers 82: N.B.A. Finals: Golden State Warriors Get Mad and Pull Even With Cleveland Cavaliers (Fri, 12 Jun 2015 05:15:13 GMT)

    The Warriors, angry after losing Games 2 and 3, unearthed more than enough offense for a 103-82 victory, tying the series at two games each with Game 5 set for Sunday in California.

  • [New York Times] Charles Helps Liberty Top Mercury (Fri, 12 Jun 2015 04:12:29 GMT)

    Tina Charles had 19 points and 11 rebounds to lead the Liberty to a 68-57 win over the Phoenix Mercury.

  • [New York Times] The Latest: Warriors Rebound, Rout Cavs 103-82, Even Finals (Fri, 12 Jun 2015 04:05:17 GMT)

    The latest from Game 4 of the NBA Finals:

  • [New York Times] On Pro Basketball: LeBron James Misses, and a Sense of Destiny Evaporates (Fri, 12 Jun 2015 01:22:20 GMT)

    James, tightly guarded by Andre Iguodala with the score tied near the end of Game 1, made a potentially costly decision in opting for a long jumper instead of driving to the basket.

  • [ESPN.com – New York Knicks] Mudiay talks Knicks meeting; NYK to watch Porzingis (Fri, 12 Jun 2015 00:09:44 EST)

    Mudiay talks Knicks meeting; NYK to watch Porzingis

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    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    96 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2015.06.12)”

    1. According to Mark Stein, Bucks are pursuing Tyson Chandler.

      I would think that would make them the early favorite, if not a lock, for the Eastern Conference championship. Yes, he’s that good.

    2. While obviously I think he’s a fine addition for most teams (and it is quite telling that Jason Kidd wants to reunite with him), I don’t know if he’s quite as good of a fit there as he would be on other teams. They have a mediocre point guard and not a whole lot of good three point shooters.

    3. “Yes, he’s that good.”
      Uh-oh. I feel another Tyson Chandler debate coming on…

    4. @3 thought I would stir things up on a sultry Friday morning.

      Efficiency, baby, give me 5 Tyson Chandlers and I’ll give you an NBA title!

    5. Man , we could have put together a contender with this year’s ex-knicks in the playoffs:

      Tyson Chandler, Mosgov, Ariza, David lee, Z-Bo, Crawford, Prigs… even JR and Shump

    6. d-mar
      June 12, 2015 at 9:44 am
      @3 thought I would stir things up on a sultry Friday morning.

      Efficiency, baby, give me 5 Tyson Chandlers and I’ll give you an NBA title!

      Yeah…. the Chandler quintet would be wonderful until they ran into their personal Kryptonite of the Penta-Hibberts :-)

      Chandler is still a valuable player on a team with other complimentary talents, but 5 uber low volume/uber high efficiency players aren’t winning bupkis.

    7. @8….

      Why would you doubt the “cream would rise to the top” :-) Shumpert is well below average as an NBA player from any group of statistical metrics and by the eye test. JR is somewhat better statistically, but still below average and is microcephalic from a BB IQ POV.

      Now….. like the old saying, “an infinite number of monkeys sitting behind an infinite number of typewriters, if you wait long enough, one of them will bang out Hamlet randomly!” still applies….. Shump or JR Can knock down 5 , treys in a row, but the Law of Large Numbers say the are going to play to their mean over time.

      They both suck in different ways…. but they still suck. Or… as they say i the land of Dellavadova…. no worries, mate!

    8. Shumpert is well below average as an NBA player from any group of statistical metrics and by the eye test.

      Not surprisingly you are totally wrong about Shumpert being well below average by ‘statistical metrics’. Some say he’s above average. Some say he’s below average. He’s a fine enough player, and a good fit on the healthy Cavs. LBJ, Kyrie and Love do the scoring, Shump plays D, rebounds, and doesn’t fuck things up completely on offense.

    9. Shump is fine on a lot of teams-he’s just not good on a team that needs him to score.

    10. Shump last night also played excellent defense on the league MVP. The Cavs kept switching, though, leaving Thompson on Curry, who had no chance. When Shump was guarding him one on one, he was doing great. That’s why the Cavs got him. They had a ton of offense already with Lebron, Irving and Love. Remember, they had so much offense that Love, one of the best offensive players in the game, was getting very limited shot attempts. Then they lost both Irving and Love. So, shockingly, the team is struggling on offense. They’re still playing fine defense.

      That, though, has nothing to do with the Shump/JR trade. Nothing Shump does going forward has anything to do with the trade. You can’t judge these things after the fact. Only on the time of the deal. Otherwise, you get this stupid BS where people keep quiet when they play well and then crow when they don’t and vice versa (different people each time, of course). “JR had a great game! The trade was dumb!” “JR had a bad game! The trade was smart!” Ridiculous.

    11. Will be very interesting to see Shump’s market this summer. He’s clearly not as good as Demarre Carroll and Danny Green, the other 2 prominent (healthy) FA 3&Ds, not to mention guys like Khris Middleton, Butler, and Kawhi who seem like locks to return to their teams. He’s not as good on either end of the floor as Avery Bradley (although plays a slightly different position) who’s making 8 or 9MM (but in a different time in the CBA cycle). Other than Cleveland (which can re-sign him with bird rights), it’d be tough for a team with cap space to commit $10MM+ to a guy who really can only be a 5th option on offense. He’s better than Luc Mbah a Moute– but not by much.

      I wonder what Wesley Matthews will get. Would anyone be interested in a 2 year ~25MM contract for him with the 2nd year being a team option (assuming he is healing and rehabbing appropriately)? He might not get a better offer than that coming off the Achilles.

      Re: Shump on Curry — yes they kept switching but I wonder whether it’s because Shump, for his whole career, has had a problem getting over screens.

    12. Anyway, after last night we know full well who is the second best Cavs player: LeBron’s penis.

    13. @14 Brian, I’ve been pretty consistent all along saying good riddance to Shump and JR, even when they occasionally have decent offensive games.

      I’ve always thought that Shump’s reputation as being a defensive “stopper” was way overrated. He commits dumb fouls, and as Frank points out above, isn’t very good at getting over screens. Dellavadova did just as good a job on Curry. I also think it’s easy to say that on a good team he can be very valuable. Even if you’re not counted on for offense, you still have to knock down open shots (Bruce Bowen, for example, who was a legit lockdown defender, could still make an open 3 when needed). Shump is erratic at best from downtown.

    14. Do people really think Shumpert’s going to get $10M a year? Are people actually going to offer Shumpert $10M a year? When I think about how crazy it is that NBA decision-makers are so inept that the league had to stop them from throwing away their best assets (1st rd. picks), I need only to imagine that several of them are about to offer Iman Shumpert $50M to make errant passes, take stupid mid-range shots, blow layups and occasionally make a strong individual defensive play. Everything makes sense that way.

    15. Man , we could have put together a contender with this year’s ex-knicks in the playoffs:

      Tyson Chandler, Mosgov, Ariza, David lee, Z-Bo, Crawford, Prigs… even JR and Shump

      The Knicks also owned the draft pick that was used to draft Omer Asik, but traded it for Demitris Nichols.

    16. uh apparently Russell cancelled his Sixers workout and meeting

      That’s odd. Even if the T’wolves or Lakers told him they are drafting him, it would still be in his best interest to work out and interview with Philly, just in case. I am going to be totally pissed if Philly ends up getting Towns…

    17. That sure is strange. If he didn’t want to play for Philly, why would he schedule the workouts in the first place? And is Minny for realsies thinking about taking him 1 and trading Rubio?

      It is going to be super fucking annoying if Philly gets Towns. All your big men are belong to us, NBA

    18. I am going to be totally pissed if Philly ends up getting Towns…

      I doubt that will happen.

      If Minny takes Russell #1, LA will take Towns. Otherwise, all reports indicate LA likes Okafor a lot. LA is coming away with their C of the future.

      More interesting is what the 76ers do if Minny takes Russell and LA takes Towns.

      Do they take Okafor?

    19. If Philly doesn’t want Towns, then they could probably trade that pick for a ransom. There would be a lot of teams looking to move up for the best player in the draft.

    20. Tyson Chandler – loved him
      Mosgov – whatever
      Ariza – loved him
      David Lee – man crush
      Z-Bo – whatever
      Crawford – nah
      Prigs – loved him
      JR – prayed in thanks to a god I don’t believe in when he was traded
      Shump – still learning layups

      So I was basically 50/50 on the Playoffs Knicks.

    21. If I had to guess, I think Russell has just figured out he’s definitely going to the 76ers at #3 (not LA at #2) and would rather play for NY at #4. So he’s hoping by canceling, they may have some second thoughts about his long term commitment to the team and select someone else.

    22. Tyson Chandler – loved him
      Mosgov – whatever
      Ariza – loved him
      David Lee – man crush
      Z-Bo – whatever
      Crawford – nah
      Prigs – loved him
      JR – prayed in thanks to a god I don’t believe in when he was traded
      Shump – still learning layups

      So I was basically 50/50 on the Playoffs Knicks.

      I was never in love with Shump and wanted to draft Faried that year. My problem with the trade was that we waited until his value was at its lowest and dumped him for two 2nd round picks when OKC was offering one of their 1st round picks the year before.

    23. So let’s roll with this:

      1. Minny takes Russell
      2. Lakes take OKAFOR. (They’re raving about him, let’s just assume they keep this line even if Towns becomes available.
      3. Philly takes Mudiay. Need a PG and Minny asking too much for Rubio.
      4. We get Towns?! WTF?! Hell, even if LA takes Towns, we walk out with Okafor. I ain’t complaining.

      Then, we ship Calderon and a future first for Rubio, who’d be a perfect fit in the triangle. Now we’re looking at:

      Rubio
      Jr.
      Early
      Melo
      OkaTowns.

      I can diggit.

    24. Is it possible that the Knicks-Cavs trade was solid for both teams? I think so.

      Shump and JR are what they are. Solid pickups for the Cavs who are now needed to do what they cannot do (due to injuries to others), and good dumps for the Knicks. I’m happy with PJ on this trade. I’d grown to hate JR on the Knicks and am so glad that he’s gone. Shump just way too frustrating on offense for the Knicks to keep. I think the Knicks get 6 million in cap space, found a decent vet min. keeper, and get a 2nd round pick. Fair enough.

    25. I wonder if Russell simply has had something family/personal related happen that’s caused him to cancel with Philly this weekend? However, if this is about him believing that he’s going 1st or 2nd, that will be very interesting…

    26. Yeah could we not trade a first round pick for Ricky Rubio and his albatross contract I don’t even want to think about that. The blood pressure in my brain is rising dangerously high.

      If for some reason we don’t draft a guard then we should just pay Corey Joseph that value contract

    27. I wonder if Russell simply has had something family/personal related happen that’s caused him to cancel with Philly this weekend? However, if this is about him believing that he’s going 1st or 2nd, that will be very interesting…

      I think it has to be either he was promised by Minny or LA, or that he’d rather play for the Knicks than Philly. If something family/personal just came up, you’d think the reports would be that something came up, not that he was canceling unexpectedly.

      Will be very interesting if Towns goes to Minny, Russell to LA. Philly does not need a big man, and it’s not that easy to see a trade that would bring equivalent value to Hinkie — ie. given his background (Morey) there is no way he is making a bad deal just to “get something”. There’s no way the Knicks should be trading with him (and we have no assets to speak of anyway), although I can imagine he might use the threat of another team jumping in for Okafor to get the #4 pick + 2018 first rounder to move up 1 slot. Short of that… Orlando already has Vucevic, Okafor + DMC makes no sense in Sac. Going down to #7+ puts you at significant risk of not getting an impact player.

      Super interesting.

    28. Just to expand on my own comment — if it were Towns that dropped to #3 then Philly could probably be expected to take him and then auction him (or Noel or Embiid, whichever they like least) off to the highest bidder. But Okafor has enough warts on him that it’s doubtful Philly would be able to get a king’s ransom of cheap assets or a true premium player for him.

      But I have no doubt that if Okafor is available at 3, Hinkie will be on the phone with Phil saying that he has 2 offers on the table for the #3 pick (whether or not it’s true) and that Phil has to step up and beat these mythical offers. I hope Phil is a good poker player.

    29. Not surprisingly you are totally wrong about Shumpert being well below average by ‘statistical metrics’. Some say he’s above average….

      Not surprisingly for this board, you say I am wrong about Shumpert’s statistical frailties without providing statistics. I thought they were so well known to be lousy it wasn’t necessary to state, but since you raise the issue:

      Shumpert’s career WS/48 = .061 ts% = .491 3pt% = .342

      On a board that rightfully bows to the gods of efficiency and advanced stats in general, how can this guy be called a good player even if he plays “somewhat above average” defense.

      For LOL comparison purposes:

      Ray Felton career ws/48 = .068 ts% = .497 3pt% = .332

      If one is going to proclaim Chandler’s (minuscule volume) greatness based on broad based ws or ws/48, then be consistent and say Shumpert sucks on the same basis.

      I don’t understand why this is even a discussion?

      That’s not to say he was a bad buy for Cleveland, but it does show he was a good sale for the Knicks.

      What surprises me most is I thought for sure Phil would like Shumpert to play the “Ron Harper” role in the triangle (big guard with limited offense to defend and bring the ba)ll up court and pitch it to Melo to initiate the offense). Phil must think he really sucks for some reason after watching him up close.

    30. Will be very interesting if Towns goes to Minny, Russell to LA. Philly does not need a big man, and it’s not that easy to see a trade that would bring equivalent value to Hinkie — ie. given his background (Morey) there is no way he is making a bad deal just to “get something”. There’s no way the Knicks should be trading with him (and we have no assets to speak of anyway), although I can imagine he might use the threat of another team jumping in for Okafor to get the #4 pick + 2018 first rounder to move up 1 slot. Short of that… Orlando already has Vucevic, Okafor + DMC makes no sense in Sac. Going down to #7+ puts you at significant risk of not getting an impact player.

      It’s fascinating just how bereft the Knicks are of assets. All they really have is this year’s pick and the 2018 first rounder (or technically the 2019 or 2020 first rounder). That’s shockingly low, right?

    31. As far as point guards go, what do people think about bringing shved back?

      On a vet’s minimum or possibly a room exception deal, maybe sure.
      nothing more than that.

    32. I want Schvedy Wap back. I just dont know how much we have to allocate to a player like that, especially if we draft Mudiay.

    33. The problem with Schved is that he’d pretty much have to take a vet minimum deal. That might be his market, so it will work out, but there’s no way Jackson will spend any real cap room on him (not even the room exception, which is currently the same price as the mini-MLE, so it is actually a relatively valuable piece for adding a final guy. Mirza Teletovic, Josh McRoberts with the Bobcats back in 2013, Mike Duneleavy, Vince Carter with the Mavs and Mo Williams with the Blazers were all room exception signings).

    34. This whole “I lied to you” angle on Kerr’s lineup is bizarre. Who gives a shit if he held back his real lineup until the last moment? It’s a starting lineup.

    35. Russell has just figured out he’s definitely going to the 76ers at #3 (not LA at #2) and would rather play for NY at #4.

      If that is so, it makes one question his basketball IQ right there. D’angelo Russell could be better than Bill Russell and the Knicks will still be looking up at the Sixers (and Celtics) in the Atlantic Division for the next decade.

    36. “Phil must think he really sucks for some reason after watching him up close.”
      Maybe not that he really sucks but that, at $2 or $3 million, he’s a good guy to have on your team but for what he’s going to get paid this summer, he’s not worth having on your team (which is how I feel about Shumpert). The “what he’s going to get paid this summer” factor is also probably why no one was lining up to deal first round picks for him this season.
      “Rubio, who’d be a perfect fit in the triangle”
      Except that aren’t triangle guards expected to be able to shoot?

    37. Except that aren’t triangle guards expected to be able to shoot?

      Yeah, Rubio seems to specifically be a bad fit for the Triangle .

    38. Bob, winshares is not the only statistical metric out there. I think Shump is an averagish player. He’s not an efficient scorer, but he’s good at some other things, and he’s a legit NBA rotation player. He’s just not one worth what he’s probably going to get paid, and we were smart to use him to dump JR.

    39. I hope Phil is a good poker player.

      Unfortunately, he’s not.

      He went all in with a 2 and 7 on that Melo contract.

    40. Except that aren’t triangle guards expected to be able to shoot?

      Yeah, Rubio seems to specifically be a bad fit for the Triangle .

      I agree, but the 97-98 Bulls did win an NBA title running the triangle and starting Ron “I’m shooting 19% from downtown this year” Harper, so if we can find a new Kukoc, Rodman, MJ and a Pippen before next year, maybe we can make it work with Rubio.

    41. That, though, has nothing to do with the Shump/JR trade. Nothing Shump does going forward has anything to do with the trade. You can’t judge these things after the fact. Only on the time of the deal.

      With all due respect, excuse me? A trade (involving draft choices especially) can only be judged on the day of the trade? I guess the Eddy Curry deal was the GOAT for the Knicks… I mean who cares that those pesky picks turned into LaMarcus ldrich and Joakim Noah, right :-)

      Look…. Phil may give the haters all the ammo they need going forward, but dumping A–hole JR and his 6m next year and a player with a ws/48 of o.061 they don’t want to keep for a second round pick is fine by me, even if Shump and JR help the CAVs. They clearly aren’t in the plans moving forward and there market wasn’t , shall we say, extensive.

    42. Eddy Curry was shitty, going to be a FA, and had a heart condition. That trade was a disaster from the get go

    43. Eddy Curry was shitty, going to be a FA, and had a heart condition. That trade was a disaster from the get go

      Ahh, the good ol’ Zeke days. How I miss ’em. *tries not to burst out laughing*

    44. Bob, winshares is not the only statistical metric out there. I think Shump is an averagish player. He’s not an efficient scorer, but he’s good at some other things, and he’s a legit NBA rotation player. He’s just not one worth what he’s probably going to get paid, and we were smart to use him to dump JR.

      Agreed that WS isn’t the only metric, but it is a good one which is reasonably broad based as long as the volume is reasonable.

      When you say he isn’t an efficient player, that’s like saying the Elephant man isn’t really attractive. Shumpert is an awfully inefficient player. That doesn’t mean he has no value as he certainly is an above average wing defender. He has value on a team like the CAVs with 3 certified gunners where all he needs to do is defend above average and not wet himself on offense. He fills the important role of a very poor man’s Bruce Bowen (except he shoots the 3 ball 5% worse).

      To the Knicks in the near future he was valueless , so like you, I was glad to see him and JR go.

    45. I hope Phil is a good poker player.

      Unfortunately, he’s not.

      He went all in with a 2 and 7 on that Melo contract.

      I like the analogy…. you just have the players backwards… let me replay the hand for you:

      Melo opens the betting with 72o (saying he has to have a max contract with zero real leverage)…..
      Phil looks down at KK (he DOES have almost all the leverage asking for a discount) and 3 bets….
      Melo snap 4 bet shoves on a stone bluff……
      Phil instafolds “knowing” the shove is “always” aces pre flop :-) :-)

    46. Ahh, the good ol’ Zeke days. How I miss ’em. *tries not to burst out laughing*

      I wrote a piece here a number of years ago during Zeke’s tenure about how not only were things terrible, but they had no hope of improving any time soon. So I must say that while things are still terrible, there is at least a little hope of them improving soon, which is sadly a really, really big improvement in my mind.

    47. Seems like, according to the rumor mill, that us Knicks fans might as well get used to Greg Monroe. Honestly..aside from the fact that I am a Georgetown Hoyas fan..I don’t have too much of a problem with it. He’s only 25 and does bring a skill set in the paint and on the elbow that is welcome in the triangle. But..my question is- can he be good enough defensively for the team to play well on both ends with Melo at the 3? If Phil nabs him for say..10 mil a year, then I’m ok with it. But this guy is not our second “big time” player. He’s a walking double double with nice passing and ball handling skills, and a mid range jumper. I’m just not sold on his ability to take over if needed. I’ve seen him do it in college..and maybe playing in Detroit has kinda stifled the things he does really well..but if Phil signs him- whoever he picks at 4 better be the real deal. And he also MUST get a defensive Center. But that Center can’t be Cauley-Stein at 4. Feels like a trade down to gain assets is in order. But Phil’s not so good at making trades. Hell- look at what the return was for JR and Shump. Shump was the sweetener, AND a piece Cleveland needed..but all Phil got in return was basically cap relief. Not even a halfway decent future pick. I understand the Chandler deal..had to move Felton and dump Chandler’s salary. But..to get relatively nothing for JR and Shump is a traveshamockery!! So..if Phil ends up trading down in the draft..it better be a good trade. A really good trade. I’ll tell u what though- if Cole and Monroe are our starting bigs next season, our rebounding woes will most certainly be solved. Plus Melo rebounds at a decent clip also. Anxious times…

    48. It does seem like Monroe is a lock to be a Knick, what with all of the rumors plus the Pistons trading for a new 4. However, it will be at the max and no less than that. Which is fair enough, honestly. I’m not thrilled with Monroe, but he’s fine.

    49. Regarding prospects for the future, my very superficial take is that we are in a roughly similar position right now to what we were in after the Amare signing but before the Melo trade, or will be after this summer. Hopefully Phil won’t do what Donnie Walsh did (under a directive from above) which is to overpay for a second big-name FA.

      My hope is that we surround Melo with a group of young, smart, athletic, talented players who are interesting to watch. I really hope we don’t max Gasol or LaMarcus. I am OK with trading down a couple of spots, especially if we can dump Calderon’s salary, but anything less than #10 in this year’s draft would really bug me unless/until that pick turns out to be a hidden gem like Leonard.

    50. Zinger might be a really good fit for Philly. He could be a stretch 4, Nerlens a power defensive 3 and Embiid a monster in the post. That would be a very big, very complementary front line!

    51. @37 — don’t the Knicks also have 3 second round picks in the next few years that they got in the JR and Prigioni trades? Not exactly a treasure trove of assets, but it’s something.
      Re: Monroe — I think he and Melo might be okay defensively if they are playing with three good perimeter defenders — like maybe Carroll, Winslow and Galloway. Maybe Thanasis can fill Shumpert’s role of tough defender/inconsistent offensive player at a fraction of the cost?

    52. I guess I’m old school. I dunno. I just believe that max players should be real difference makers only- regardless of how much money the league makes. Or if Monroe was a big C with career averages of roughly 15 and 10, then I’d be ok with offering the max because 15 post points threatens a defense more than 15 elbow to midrange points. Now if the triangle brings out the best in Monroe and he ends up being a 20-10 guy with 5 assists a game and at least 1 block then I’ll be yelling, “Why did Phil offer JUST the max??!!” lol.

    53. @37 — don’t the Knicks also have 3 second round picks in the next few years that they got in the JR and Prigioni trades? Not exactly a treasure trove of assets, but it’s something.

      You’re right, they do have one 2017 second round pick from Houston. That’s their only second round pick until 2019, though (when they get Cleveland’s and Houston’s), and they don’t own their own second round pick until 2020, which sounds insane, but it is true.

      So yes, add the 2017 2nd rounder to their list of assets (I don’t think the 2019 second rounders really count much as assets just yet).

    54. But Monroe will be a max contract in name only. After next year he won’t be making anywhere near max money. If we just start arbitrarily putting max contract in front of other player’s salaries it doesn’t make the player’s salary any worse.

    55. And why do 2nd round picks in 2019 mean any less than 2nd round picks in 2015? We can presumably trade them for current picks or just hold onto them for 2019. Either way it will eventually benefit the Knicks. Chances are I’ll still be a knick fan in 2020 and I’ll want them to have those assets. What’s with the win now attitude?

    56. Melo’s deal pretty much puts the team in win now mode, IMO. No way he signs, or Phil offers that big a deal with a full rebuild in mind. Not even Zeke would do that..or Layden..

    57. God how I hate the term “win-now mode.”

      Listen, unless your team ALREADY has a shot at going to the NBA Finals next year, you are not in win-now mode, and you’d be better off keeping your picks. The draft is almost a crapshoot, so those picks don’t work if you only have a couple of them. You need many. You need a policy where you don’t trade your picks. As in the Spurs. Just think of what the Spurs would do, and do that.

    58. And why do 2nd round picks in 2019 mean any less than 2nd round picks in 2015? We can presumably trade them for current picks or just hold onto them for 2019. Either way it will eventually benefit the Knicks. Chances are I’ll still be a knick fan in 2020 and I’ll want them to have those assets. What’s with the win now attitude?

      The closer a pick is to being used, the more valuable it is as a trade asset. Hence a 2017 second round pick is an asset while a 2019 second round pick is not really much of an asset. Even there, a 2015 or a 2016 second round pick is much more valuable than a 2017 second round pick.

    59. Here’s the thing: what’s the point of trading future-oriented assets at all? If you’re on the cusp of a championship, fine. But otherwise, the goal should be to make the right decisions with goal in mind of sustained success. So, you build a great team, without damaging your chances to improve or maintain that team through young talent, draft picks, coaching/development, cap space. We have been losing, because for many many years we had no young talent, picks, good coaching/development, or cap space.

    60. According to Ian Begley, Phil Jackson is in Las Vegas watching the Zinger work out. Not sure what, if anything, to make of that, but it’s interesting that he made the trip to see him in person.

    61. fine. But otherwise, the goal should be to make the right decisions with goal in mind of sustained success. So, you build a great team, without damaging your chances to improve or maintain that team through young talent, draft picks, coaching/development, cap space. We have been losing, because for many many years we had no young talent, picks, good coaching/development, or cap space.

      Oh, I agree that they shouldn’t be trading picks (well, except to gain more picks and stay high in the lottery – I’m fine with that if Russell is not there at #4), just noting that the Knicks are so terrible that they don’t even have assets to burn away! Most teams at least have a player with some value around the league on their roster. The Knicks don’t outside of the guy with a no-trade clause. The Knicks can’t even do deals because they have nothing to deal! Like if the Sixers wanted to move down in the draft, the Knicks don’t have anything to offer them!

    62. According to Ian Begley, Phil Jackson is in Las Vegas watching the Zinger work out. Not sure what, if anything, to make of that, but it’s interesting that he made the trip to see him in person.

      Verrrry interesting. Any time he does anything in person it is a big deal.

    63. Brian, I’m confused now.
      2016: no picks
      2017: 1st and 2nd picks
      2018: 1st pick
      2019: 1st and two 2nds
      2020: 1st and 2nd

      Does this sound correct? If so, then it’s only next year that we have no assets in the draft, and beyond that, it’s basically a wash, imo. So we technically do have assets to trade: 2018 and 2020 firsts and all of the 2nds.

    64. The 2017 first round pick isn’t a trade asset, though, since they can’t trade it. I apologize if I was being unclear – I was just talking strictly trade assets.

      But yes, in a few years they will be back to normal, pick-wise, thank goodness! Fingers crossed they make it there without doing something dumb with their future picks!

    65. @69 Obviously, this is hypothetical, so let’s get that out of the way. But what if we offered our 4 ( and a player if necessary ) to Boston for their 28th, 33rd, and 45th this year and their 16 pick from either BK ( unprotected ) or Dallas ( protected 1-7 )? I ask because I agree with you that the picks are important, but I also believe that having consecutive picks ( 1st rounders ) is also a necessity.

    66. The Zinger is STROKIN’ it in front of Phil. Very fluid, much more so than Towns. Any chance he goes #1?

    67. what if we offered our 4 ( and a player if necessary ) to Boston for their 28th, 33rd, and 45th this year and their 16 pick from either BK ( unprotected ) or Dallas ( protected 1-7 )?

      I think it’s a great trade. I agree that the consecutive picks is crucial. I also think that that Nets pick could be top 5 next summer. But the opinion that counts is Phil’s (er, Dolan’s), and I’m 99.9% sure that he doesn’t like that hypothetical.

    68. Don’t really get trading out of he to 5 in the draft either. A team is built on talent, amd having an all star on your team, potentially on a rookie contract and young, is almost invaluable. Quality > quantity.

    69. @79. Ok. Then what player hits your criteria? Like, is there a significant difference between, say, Cameron Payne and Tyrus Jones? What about Dekker vs Hezonja? While I value the pick and agree with you conceptually, who in the draft is a sure bet? Better yet, if the difference between picks 15-30 is minuscule yet the potential for success is the same, considering our team, wouldn’t you want to cast a wide net?

    70. I know EVERY PLAYER looks good in workouts…but I tell u what..I just watched a Grantland piece on Porzingis and he looks pretty damn good and he talks a good game. Usually the tall lanky guys that young are uncoordinated, but this kid looks pretty fluid. And he’s looooooooooong. He may never be a great defender, but with his length and ability to move he probably will be an excellent weakside defender- depending on his hoop IQ. I’m officially intrigued. Maybe this will be the gamble that defines Phil. One thing’s for sure..if Porzingis ends up being the pick, I can’t see Greg Monroe in a Knick uni. And I’m starting to warm up to the idea of Monroe in the triangle and finally realizing his potential. You know what? I’m just gonna stop thinking about possible moves and picks..this is drivin me crazy lol. I still have a soft spot for my proposed starting lineup of Jordan-Melo-Carroll-Mudiay-Calderon. This is too much lol. I guess that’s why Phil gets paid the big bucks, ’cause he’s got a lot on his plate.

    71. Boston, with picks 16, 28, 33, and 45 could be someone the Knicks deal with to get a late 1st/early 2nd. If Boston is unable to make any big deals elsewhere, they might be willing to sell off the #28 or 33 (I’d guess that PJ wants something earlier than 45). I think the cap hold on the #29 pick is probably about $900k.

    72. The problem with Porzingas is that he’s 3-4 years away from having any kind of meaningful impact (assuming he does actually get really good). The Knicks plan is make the playoffs next year, fill out the missing piece(s) in the following off season, and contend the next year and going forward.

      It’s good news for us that he supposedly had a great workout. That improves the probability (however small) that he can push himself into the top 3. That’s what we need. We need for someone selecting above us to be willing to think long term and take a gamble on what they think is bigger upside so we can grab someone that will have a more immediate impact like Okafor or Russell.

      Generally, I’m all about the long term because I think that’s the correct way to think unless you are a single player away from serious contention. Since the Knicks are nowhere even close to contention, that means we should be thinking very long term. However, once we signed Melo we changed the likely strategy a little. Now we have to balance the long term and Melo’s window. So someone with upside that can also make an immediate impact is a better fit.

    73. If he is real then I don’t think it will take 3-4 years at all. I think as he develops he has potential as spot up shooter but I think his athleticism would allow him to even work as a PnR finisher. I think he could be a nice 1st big off the bench by the middle of the year. He could have a year like Mirotic but like I said I think it will be better because of his finishing ability.

      Supposedly Clarence Gaines has been over Europe scouting Kristaps so the Knicks are definitely intrigued. Myles Turner was also at the ASM/Kristaps workout. That’s nice having another shooting ig man to compare Kristaps with.

    74. why don’t we have a post about towns miraculously being available at 4 and jackson pulling the trigger on trey lyles instead?

      silverman should write that one and bake in some kind of vignette of a 2043 knickerblogger reunion talking about James Dolan Jr. selecting 18-y.o. Earl Joseph Smith V with the first pick of the draft.

    75. Zinger ’15.
      Again, of the 4 or 5 guys ppl talk about being avail at 4, he seems to have the most upside, and also the highest character. Yes, he’s a gamble and risk and any euro big will always stink of bargs to us, but he seems to be very smart in more ways than one and has been shown to be a hard worker. I’m sick of having knuckleheads on the team.

    76. He could have a year like Mirotic but like I said I think it will be better because of his finishing ability.

      That’s some seriously wishful thinking to believe that a 19-year old Porzingis will be a better rookie than a 23-year old Mirotic. Mirotic was a great player in Europe and is far more physically mature than the stringbean-ish Porzingis. If the Zinger has a rookie season like the one Mirotic just had, but at age 20, he’s a franchise player.

    77. why don’t we have a post about towns miraculously being available at 4 and jackson pulling the trigger on trey lyles instead?

      “The Knicks were too suspicious about Towns plummeting in the draft from the presumed #1 to being available to the Knicks at #4, so they decided to go instead with his former teammate, Trey Lyles, after he explained to them during an interview that he was the real secret to Kentucky’s success.”

    78. The Zinger’s numbers as a 19 year old in the ACB were almost identical to Mirotic’s numbers as a 23 year old in the ACB and much much better than Mirotic’s numbers as a 19 year old.

    79. Three or four years from impact makes Porzingis sound like Jordan Hill or Timofey Mozgov, both of whom took that time frame to become starters. They didn’t get the sort of notice that Porzingis is getting, so I suspect he’s more ready to make an impact.

    80. Porzingas will probably be able to score in the NBA next year. I just think he’s going to get manhandled on the boards and on defense for at least a couple of years. If he’s more productive than Bargnani next year I’d be surprised. Longer term, as he gets stronger and bulks up, maybe he can get very good. I just think if the Knicks draft him (and I don’t expect they will), he’s not going to get a lot of playing time or make any kind of impact next year.

      It’s frustrating. This sort of looks like a 3 player draft (Towns, Okafor, and Russell). That’s why some of us were going ballistic when Hardaway Jr was winning meaningless end of season games at a time when his own contract was already secure. It was dumber than a rock to go all out in those games. It reduced our chances of getting the pick we needed to get an impact player. Then our nightmare came to pass. Now we are sitting here praying that someone drops to us or that we get someone that will give us an upside surprise after we draft him.

    81. But Mirotic put up his numbers in the EuroLeague, while Porzingis put up his in the inferior EuroCup. The Zinger’s stats as a 19 year old were quite good, but Mirotic has already shown an ability to play strong defense and is a good rebounder at the NBA level. Mirotic averaged 8.8 REB/36 last year– I’d be very surprised if Zinger cracked 6.0 as a rookie.

    82. Mirotic played strong defense really? When was this. Every time I watched him he was getting lost covering PnRs and outmuscled in the post. I do think his rebounding was good though.

    83. Mirotic’s defense improved a lot in the second half of the season, and he ended up with a decent amount of blocks and steals. He finished the season with a .556 TS%, 18.8 PTS/36, 8.8 REB/36 and a .165 WS48. I just don’t think there is any way the Zinger is going to come anywhere close to those numbers as a rookie.

      I do like Zinger’s upside though, and I think you can make a very good case that he’s a better pick than Mudiay or Winslow.

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