If the Basketball Gods are Willing and the Creek Don’t Rise: The 2015 NBA Lottery Live Thread

The Knicks enter tonight’s lottery (8:30 PM Eastern on ESPN) with a question begging to be answered – “Do the basketball gods love Phil Jackson more than they hate James Dolan?” Phil Jackson has lived a charmed life in the NBA. He won two titles as a player, then won six titles with Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen and the Bulls and then five titles with Kobe Bryan, Shaquille O’Neal, Pau Gasol and the Lakers. James Dolan, on the other hand, has lived a charmed life in general, but not so much in the NBA, where he does stuff like hire a guy that a jury ruled was a sexual harasser to be the head of his Women’s Basketball team (and then not only not throw in a “He’s changed. He’s sorry for what he did before” but instead go the opposite route and say “We think the jury was wrong”).

The Knicks also annoyingly won a couple of otherwise meaningless games at the end of the season, which reduced their odds from having the best odds at getting the top pick in the lottery to the second best odds (and made their worst case scenario change from #4 to #5). Tonight we will learn if the basketball gods have decided to reward the Knicks with a top pick due to the fact that the Knicks didn’t actively try to lose games once they gutted their roster (they were just terrible, so they normally had good odds for losing) instead of the Minnesota Timberwolves, who also gutted their roster but then actively tried (and succeeded) to lose games late in the year.

Here are the Knicks’ odds tonight:
1st overall: 19.9%
2nd overall: 18.8%
3rd overall: 17.1%
4th overall: 31.9%
5th overall: 12.3%

Breaking it down further..
Top Two pick: 38.7%
Top Three pick: 55.8%
Top Four pick: 87.7%
Top Five pick: 100%

The important thing to remember if the Knicks don’t do well in tonight’s lottery is that it will all be Chris Paul’s fault. He cannot be considered a star player if I cannot blame him for the Knicks not doing well in the lottery.

So, one last time for the 2014-15 season, let’s go Knicks(‘ ping pong balls)!

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227 thoughts to “If the Basketball Gods are Willing and the Creek Don’t Rise: The 2015 NBA Lottery Live Thread”

  1. The important thing to remember if the Knicks don’t do well in tonight’s lottery is that it will all be Chris Paul’s fault. He cannot be considered a star player if I cannot blame him for the Knicks not doing well in the lottery.

    I legitimately laughed out loud. Our success also hinges on how good Doc Rivers is a good GM/Coach and how big of a pussy Blake Griffin is.

  2. – “Do the basketball gods love Phil Jackson more than they hate James Dolan?”

    Haha. Yes, there is an existential riddle to be solved! (Though I’m sure there’s a compromise to be had– like Phil winning the #1 pick but Dolan making him trade it for Kobe Bryant)

  3. Since the Internet will probably crash if we get the #1 pick, I’m going to post ahead of time:

    “Holy f—in’ sh–t! We got the #1 Pick!”

  4. If 2 of the first 7 teams are skipped over when their spot comes up, I might pass away.

  5. If we get the 5th pick and proceed to suck for the next 10-15 years, the “I can’t believe you guys are mad about a win” crowd can take solace in those Orlando and Atlanta wins. You know, tell your kids about them and stuff.

  6. Those wins are lame no matter the result of tonight. It’s not like the Knicks getting the #1 pick would make those wins smart.

  7. God I’m nervous. The fact that Steve Mills is our chosen representative before the altar of the Basketball Gods tells me we are somehow going to fall out of the top 10.

    Don’t try and tell me it’s impossible either. The Basketball Gods follow their own rules.

  8. I haven’t posted in a while. Combination of moving back to ny state and the Knicks sucking so bad this year.

    God I hope the Knicks get the number one pick. Please basketball gods give me something to be happy about when it comes to my Knicks.!

  9. “Sonny, sit down by grandpa dred and let him tell you a story about the time he told some nerds that they were wrong to be happy the Knicks won a game”

    “Aw, grandpa, not again. Can’t you tell us the one where you beat the Clippers singlehandedly in the playoffs”?

  10. The fact that Steve Mills is our chosen representative before the altar of the Basketball Gods tells me we are somehow going to fall out of the top 10.

    That is an awful decision, right? It’s pretty much meaningless, really, but come on.

  11. If the Knicks get #1 and Sixers get #4, #6 (Lakers, if slip 2 spots) and #11 (Miami, if slip 1 spot), I would trade #1 for those three picks.

  12. Fuck that. More than anything, I hope Minny gets the 4th pick for their unmitigated and unrepentant tanking. Let Karma again be a bitch to that sorry-ass franchise.

  13. I’m impressing myself with how not tense I am. I am sort of resigned to our fate.

  14. I’m impressing myself with how not tense I am. I am sort of resigned to our fate.

    Yeah, I’m just waiting to see how we mess it all up. I am curious as to who Isiah Thomas will pick for us though.

  15. Ive convinced myself that even with the 5th pick the Knicks will be getting a very good player so I wont be too devastated when they wind up picking outside of the Top 3….

  16. I totally forgot that the Sixers traded Payton. Huh. That was a weird trade.

  17. I’d flip Towns and Okafor, but otherwise I think Bilas nailed his top five.

  18. Do young people no longer comb their hair? All this talk about draft picks; they need a damn hair pick.

  19. Anyone else surprised at how tall Heather Cox is? She’s almost as tall as Mudiay.

  20. The Knicks had two really good stretches in their franchise history, both after they got the #1 pick. So they then did everything they could to keep away from the top pick for the past fifteen years. Smart. “You can’t rebuild in New York. Except, you know, the two times that they did rebuild and it was awesome.” Hell, they didn’t even plsn to be in this position this year!

  21. At #14, The New York Knicks. They have ringggzzzz for pres, they don’t need a good draft pick!

  22. As a Knick fan, I’ve grown accustomed to being thankful for things not being as bad as they possibly could be (during those rare times when they’re not). And I have to say, I’m glad Isiah Thomas isn’t there tonight.

  23. Good call, Kahnzy, that really is something that theoretically could have happened! So we have that going for us.

  24. I guess I want the Lakers to get #1 now because if things are going to suck, they might as well suck a lot.

  25. Good news is we get to do this again two years from now.

    Except they’ll add just enough good players to end up, like, the 7th worst team and get the #9 pick.

  26. Let’s all welcome Emmanuel Mudiay to the NY Knicks.

    I think it’ll actually be Russell or Winslow. I think Mudiay goes #2 or #3.

  27. Jesus Christ. We were screwed before this and now it’s worse. At least if we got Towns or Okafor we had a shot at meaningfully changing the franchise I’m the future.

  28. Well, I guess the gods hatred of Dolan wins. (Or maybe they got sick of Phil’s drunken tweets)

  29. I wonder if Timmy thinks I forgot he made those fucking shots? No way, Timmy. Not on my watch.

  30. T-Wolves got the #1 pick with what should have been our ballz.

    But hey, we won that one game against Atlanta. They should hang a banner up at MSG for that ish.

  31. I would be happy with Russell. I’m just glad the 76’ers didn’t get 3 lottery picks.

  32. Well that pretty much locks Russell into Philadelphia. Sixers need back court help badly.

  33. I didnt want to get upset if they dropped out of the Top 2 picks but fuck it Im pissed. This sucks, as Knick fans dunno how much more shit we have to continue to get piled on us before something positive actually happens to us.

  34. Look at that corpse of a man you will be playing for Towns in Minnesota. Enjoy that city while your buddy gets the lights in LA.

  35. I would be happy with Russell.

    He’s an excellent consolation prize. As far as terrible scenarios go, this is relatively okay, since Philly will take Mudiay and Minny takes Towns and L.A. takes Okafor. I can’t believe this asshole is telling me how good Zach LaVine is.

  36. 1 MIN Jahlil Okafor
    2 LAL Karl-Anthony Towns
    3 PHI D’Angelo Russell
    4 NYK Emmanuel Mudiay

  37. So basically if you look at the odds, the Knicks had the worst ‘luck’ of any team in the lottery given their final spot vs. their expected slot. SURPRISE!

  38. Philly is big on Mudiay. I think he goes there and I think he makes sense there.

  39. Well, at least the Knicks will have a little more cap space picking 4th instead of 1st…

  40. not ideal but it’s good that the top 3 shook out that way with us at 4….

    mudiay/russell/winslow talk… i think it’ll be winslow with a chance sixers take mudiay with an interesting choice at 4…

    but yes… dealing the pick becomes a nightmare scenario….

  41. I think Minny will take Okafor because pointz. Mudiay to PHI and D’Angelo Russell to NYK might not be the end of the world.

  42. Man, that shot of Okafor et al tells it all. None of them want to go to Minny.

  43. I’m fine with dealing whoever we take 4th as long as it’s for multiple picks and not some overrated, highly paid gunner. We have a lot of holes, and since we pissed away our best chance to land a real game changing superstar by trying to win games for no reason at all, it might be better to have a couple bites at the apple.

  44. Honestly coming out of this with Mudiay or Russell (or Winslow) really wouldn’t be so bad.

    Overall I’m not feeling like Towns or Okafor are franchise changers – when your most likely comps are Al Horford and Al Jefferson it’s hard to get that excited.

    The only thing to be afraid of is the Knicks trading back or out of the draft. (Depending on the deal) that would be the worst possible outcome.

  45. I think Minny will take Okafor because pointz. Mudiay to PHI and D’Angelo Russell to NYK might not be the end of the world.

    Towns fits there too well. He can play with either Dieng or Pekovic. I think he’s their pick. Okafor gets to play in Los Angeles, so good for him in that regard. He gets to play for Byron Scott, so bad for him in that regard. I do think the odds are strong that the Knicks can get Russell, who is a great consolation prize. If they don’t deal the pick, of course.

  46. We all know whats going to happen. We will all hope Russell is there at 4 but instead Philly takes him 1 spot ahead of the Knicks and becomes ROY and a future All-Star while the Knicks take either Mudiay or Winslow who become a decent player but not anywhere near as good as Russell (let alone Towns or Okafor).

  47. I don’t like Minny getting no.1, mostly for the blatant display of tanking that went down. No. 1 would have been great, but a top 4 pick is nothing to shrug at I guess. Top 4 in this years draft are all excellent players. Here’s hoping Minny pull a Cavs and Draft an Anthony Bennett surprise at no.1 ha ha

  48. We all know whats going to happen. We will all hope Russell is there at 4 but instead Philly takes him 1 spot ahead of the Knicks and becomes ROY and a future All-Star while the Knicks take either Mudiay or Winslow who become a decent player but not anywhere near as good as Russell (let alone Towns or Okafor).

    That really does sound extremely realistic.

  49. I don’t like Minny getting no.1, mostly for the blatant display of tanking that went down. No. 1 would have been great, but a top 4 pick is nothing to shrug at I guess. Top 4 in this years draft are all excellent players. Here’s hoping Minny pull a Cavs and Draft an Anthony Bennett surprise at no.1 ha ha

    I’d almost hate that more, since it would mean Towns or Okafor would be there one pick ahead of the Knicks.

  50. Russell might be the best player for the Knicks anyway. I wasn’t thrilled with either Okafor or Towns. Don’t get me wrong, they’re both All-stars, but Russell projects to being a great all-around point guard. It’s something we haven’t had since…Frazier?

  51. Oh, and of course, don’t let me forget to say – fuck you, Chris Paul, this is all on you.

  52. I’m fine with dealing whoever we take 4th as long as it’s for multiple picks and not some overrated, highly paid gunner.

    No matter what they say, it’s pretty obvious that they need to build a contender fast for Melo. If they deal the pick it will absolutely be for a vet, not a haul of rookies.

  53. Educate me pls. Mudiay or Russel? The board seems to prefer Russel but WHY?
    If we get one of them wouldnt it be a good piece? a building block? We will finally have a good PG which we never had since Walt.

  54. Russell is not much of a defender, so I think he’ll make a perfect Knick.

    I think he can be a good defender. He just had to be everything on offense for his team. In the NBA, he’ll get a chance to concentrate on defense, as well.

  55. Russell might be the best player for the Knicks anyway. I wasn’t thrilled with either Okafor or Towns. Don’t get me wrong, they’re both All-stars, but Russell projects to being a great all-around point guard. It’s something we haven’t had since…Frazier?

    Russell ain’t gonna be there. It’s Mudiay in all likelihood. Gotta love that 53% TS in a weak league!

  56. Educate me pls. Mudiay or Russel? The board seems to prefer Russel but WHY?
    If we get one of them wouldnt it be a good piece? a building block? We will finally have a good PG which we never had since Walt.

    Mudiay is good, as well, but I think Russell’s game is more refined plus he is a better shooter. I think all four of the top guys could be franchise players. Possibly Winslow, WCS and EEG, as well.

  57. What’s the worst case scenario? That’s what I’m placing my bet on us doing.

  58. So, who are we trading D’Angelo Russell for? The return of Jamal Crawford? Deron Williams? Josh Smith?

  59. What’s the worst case scenario? That’s what I’m placing my bet on us doing.

    Trading the #4 pick for Ty Lawson.

  60. I’d almost hate that more, since it would mean Towns or Okafor would be there one pick ahead of the Knicks.

    True. I hadn’t thought of that. I just had a rage flashback to the Steph Curry pick……

  61. Don’t even think that some team is going to do something stupid ahead of us. That’s the type of shit we do.

  62. actually the unthinkable would be drafting one of the euros…. that would be catastrophic…

    as long as we’re picking whoever is left from russell or winslow… this has a possibility of working out pretty well…

  63. Must be so awkward for Marc Jackson to do all these Golden State games. It’s like doing PBP commentary on your ex getting boned by some other dude.

  64. By the way, if Philly takes Russell, I can live with Mudiay. I would love Winslow if it means Melo plays the 4!

  65. Mills talking about who they think they can sign as FA’s will factor into what they do with the draft pick. How the hell will they know for sure who they will be possibly signing that early?? Shouldnt the draft pick (or trade of it) determine who they go after in Free Agency and not the other way around considering the timeline??

  66. What’s the worst case scenario? That’s what I’m placing my bet on us doing.

    Phil trading the pick to win now for Kaminsky and some overpaid vet while whoever gets drafted at #4 turns into a superstar.

  67. At least we’re crushed early. If we were 3 we’d be busy trying to talk ourselves into how we’d somehow still get Towns or Okafor.

  68. The lottery went in exact order of record EXCEPT the Knicks switched with the Lakers.

    You really get the feeling we’re a cursed franchise.

    Let the Emanuel Mudiay era begin!

  69. I remember during the Curry draft.
    The experts are divided between Westbrook, Flynn, and Bayless of who is the better PG.
    For this draft, is the a chance that Mudiay will be a better player vs russel?
    If Mudiay is our wiorst case scenario, isnt it still a good thing?

  70. Im pissed but if we end up trading this pick for a veteran that may be the final straw for my knicks fandom

    Who could we trade down for

  71. If Mudiay is our wiorst case scenario, isnt it still a good thing?

    Oh sure, getting a top four pick was very important. The top four guys are all legit players. Mudiay has great upside. He could theoretically be a better version of Derrick Rose. It is just more likely that he is a better version of Tyreke Evans, which is still a good player, of course, just not a top four pick.

  72. Do we go out there and let Cole launch 30′ hook shots to “see if he can be a stretch 5 next year” or do we try to beat Atlanta? How both the Knicks and the Jets have fucked up this incredibly easy decision process boggles my mind.

  73. Can we also get the doomsdayers and “I told you so”‘ers to speak up now. I would prefer the off-season on this board to be mostly decent debate on what to do with pick 4 and FA’s. Not sure I can handle a few months of reading how this organisation will be perpetually fucked because we won 2 games at the end of the season. We get it.

  74. Im pissed but if we end up trading this pick for a veteran that may be the final straw for my knicks fandom

    The weird thing is that Jackson already said he would be willing to deal the #4 pick. Luckily for us, there don’t seem to be many good options out there. Vukovic?

  75. Trading back (not that far) wouldn’t be the worst thing.
    Imagine #4 for #6 and a top 5-8 protected Kings pick, then we pick WCS or Winslow, whoever is left. If I’m the Kings and i’m otherwise relying on Darren Collison leading me to the promised land, trading 2 #1s for Russell or Mudiay might not be that bad a bet.

    Meanwhile – re the Chinese Basketball League – I think most people would say it’s the 3rd best league in the world behind the NBA and Euroleague. People say that Marbury dominates there so how good could it be, but imagine what he’d do against college kids?

    I for one would be very happy with Mudiay or Russell. Just don’t trade the pick unless you’re getting a good pick or picks back in addition to whatever veteran help is coming to take up our cap space. Like a non protected #1 and a whole bunch of 2nd rounders.

  76. @ 132 – I really don’t think Phil will do that. Or am I trying to will it to not happen, not sure.

  77. I would think the consensus here would be Winslow over Mudiay if Russell is gone at #4 no??

  78. Somebody needs to tell Mark Jackson et al that when you want to talk about what a team needs to do, you don’t have to preface it with “If you’re the ____”

    “The Rockets need to play better defense” would be perfectly acceptable.

  79. @ 142 – that would be terrific. Draft a kid and then make sure you get a pick in next year’s draft so you are not forced to “go for it”.

  80. 1 MIN Jahlil Okafor
    2 LAL Karl-Anthony Towns
    3 PHI D’Angelo Russell
    4 NYK Emmanuel Mudiay

    Agreed. More because the Knicks are just destined to get the worst of the 4 more than the Sixers are good at picking talent.

  81. Meanwhile – re the Chinese Basketball League – I think most people would say it’s the 3rd best league in the world behind the NBA and Euroleague. People say that Marbury dominates there so how good could it be, but imagine what he’d do against college kids?

    Overall, it is strong, but the area it is clearly very lacking is the area that Mudiay excels in – speed. Hence the players they typically bring over to China from the States are speedy guards (who then all dominate. Will Bynum picked up from Mudiay and dominated. TDDWTDD dominated over there!).

  82. Guys let’s just all be Liberty fans. I hear they got a new president recently! Exciting stuff.

  83. I would trade the #4 pick for Durant (haha I know) if he refuses to sign with OKC.

  84. I would think the consensus here would be Winslow over Mudiay if Russell is gone at #4 no??

    Nah, I’m okay with Mudiay. Yeah, he’ll probably be a disappointment, but he has much higher upside than Winslow. I like Winslow a lot, though.

  85. I for one would be very happy with Mudiay or Russell. Just don’t trade the pick unless you’re getting a good pick or picks back in addition to whatever veteran help is coming to take up our cap space. Like a non protected #1 and a whole bunch of 2nd rounders.

    – agree. Russel or Mudiay but please DONT trade the pick. Win or lose we deserve a youngster that will give us hope.

  86. There are a bunch of intriguing bigs who will go outside of the top 4. Turner, Kaminsky, Cauley Stein, maybe Portis, Trey Lyles. We cannot do some stupid win now bullshit trade for a veteran, but trading down would be fine.

  87. If Russell is gone, then sure, I don’t mind trading down if it gets them a top pick next season, but who likes Mudiay so much that they’d make that offer?

  88. Look at the bright side – if we got the #1 and drafted Towns, and then Marc Gasol announced he wanted to play for the Knicks, what would we do with all those centers?

  89. Fuck the Lakers for all of eternity.

    Now with that said. I’d like to get Mudiay or Winslow. Those are the riskiest but also I feel like they both have the most upside in the top 4.

  90. @142 Frank, I agree with you and I’ll add that:
    – Darko (2) went before Melo (3), Bosh (4) and Wade (5).
    – Bargnani went #1 ahead of LaMarcus Aldridge (2),
    – Bogut went #1 ahead of Chris Paul (4)
    – Kwame Brown went #1 ahead or Tyson (2), Pau Gasol (3) and a bunch of other all-stars.

    There. That’s my optimistic post for 2015-16.

  91. @ 155 – Sacramento? They are looking for a PG and they have a irrational belief that they are/should be a playoff team.

  92. Chris Paul was the #4 pick in his draft.

    And Raymond Felton was the #5 pick in that draft and Mudiay reminds me more of Ray. In fact, I’ve already picked out his nickname: BRICKSHAW

  93. I had my old Patrick Ewing jersey on…just feeling good…thinking everything was going to be alright this time! :( Silly me!!!! I think this is a Patrick Ewing curse… #Depressing

  94. Ah well, arguing about what we would should do with the 4 is going to be more interesting than just saying “I can’t wait until we take Towns”.

    Also, I may have some further thoughts to share about Tim Hardaway Jr. Blood always tells. We never should have drafted that rotten bastard’s son.

  95. Stop whining bitches…. why the heck do we need OK4 or KAT…… we’ve got bloody bleepin Louis Labeyrie!!!!

  96. Why Sacramento is always in our trade scenarios?

    I know, they are dumb af, but I’m not convinced we can outsmart them.

  97. “And Mudiay reminds me more of Ray”
    Because you’ve seen him play so many times? Seiously, I think I like Mudiay, but has any of us really seen him play enough to have a strong opinion one way or the other?

  98. Mudiay is tall and not fat, so that’s two strikes right there for your he reminds me of ray felton theory.

  99. Meanwhile – re the Chinese Basketball League – I think most people would say it’s the 3rd best league in the world behind the NBA and Euroleague. People say that Marbury dominates there so how good could it be, but imagine what he’d do against college kids?

    I would say it’s maybe 4th behind NBA, Euroleague, and NCAA D1. Maybe the NBA D-League as well. The Chinese league is really bad.

  100. I would say it’s maybe 4th behind NBA, Euroleague, and NCAA D1

    Spanish league too

  101. Can we talk about how wonderfully nicotine stained Vlade is? He looks like he’s been living in the ceiling of a bar for 20 years.

  102. I think at worst, the Knicks should be looking to trade with Orlando. Orlando needs a wing (Winslow) and we should definitely charge a tax to move into the top 4 to ensure that they grab him, assuming he is still on the board.

  103. “And Mudiay reminds me more of Ray”

    Because you’ve seen him play so many times? Seiously, I think I like Mudiay, but has any of us really seen him play enough to have a strong opinion one way or the other?

    Brickshaw’s a terrible shooter. What else do you need to know? Only way this works out is if BB Gods are Buddhist.

  104. Here’s something to make everyone feel better, the last 5 drafts and the 4th pick in each:

    Aaron Gordon
    Cody Zeller
    Dion Waiters
    Tristan Thompson
    Wesley Johnson

    That’s an All Star team right there!

  105. Can we talk about how wonderfully nicotine stained Vlade is? He looks like he’s been living in the ceiling of a bar for 20 years.

    Lol, I was saying that he looks like me after a long day of work and a couple of hours at happy hour.

  106. Mudiay’s a bad shooter right now, but he can improve. Yes, that’s a big “if” and that’s why I like Russell more, but Mudiay can improve his shooting. Dude’s 19 years old. And as we saw with Rose and Wall, you sometimes only need to improve a little bit to become a star (basically become just good enough that teams can’t play off of you).

  107. I’d actually still consider WCS at 4 if Russell is gone. Poor fit for the triangle but the best defensive player in the draft. Ceiling is Tyson, unfortunately the floor is probably Biyombo. I’d definitely look to trade down a spot or two since he’d almost certainly still be available but Mudiay is a big question mark to me and Winslow basically had a few good weeks (not to mention that a big who has the potential to be Garnett/Noah good at defending the pnr has more value than a great defensive wing IMO.)

  108. Yea and Russell is not a great athlete and a poor defender. I’d rather mold an athlete.

  109. I don’t know shit about Mudiay, except the Congo to Prime Prep to China to the Big Apple would be one hell of a fucking journey before you turned 20. Winslow can shoot-why do you like Mudiay over him?

  110. Ugh. The Sixers were high on Mudiay before but now apparently were planning on taking Russell period wherever they were drafting. Ugh.

    Oh well, I can sell myself on Mudiay!

  111. Mudiay and/or Russell are good consolation picks and I can live with either of them. That being said, we’re drafting porzingas or hezonja(?). I want to be positive and I really want to believe Phil has a plan and everything could work out. But, shit. SHIT!!! Fine. I’ll say it. We are the equivalent of Sansa Stark in regards to our luck. …I’ll see myself out.

  112. One of the issues evaluating Mudiay is that he was injured much of the CBA season. Essentially you’re working off of his HS game plus a handful of games this past season. There’s some value to his CBA time, but he’s behind Russell because of the fact that he’s such an unknown.

  113. Mark Heisler (previously from LA times and very connected) thinks the Lakers will take Mudiay. Which means the Sixers probably will take Russell. Which would leave us with one of the two bigs…

    http://onforb.es/1diNffc

  114. @185 – That could only happen to a different team, in a fantasy world, not to us.

  115. It’s all moot because Phil’s gonna trade that pick (some 28 yo vet in exchange) because Phil/Melo/Dolan are not thinking long-term. If they were, they would trade Melo and the #4 pick to Lakers if Towns were available at #2.

  116. That makes me not want Okafor now and wish we could take Russell or Mudiay…..Damn

  117. 188 – I dont think the Lakers would (or could?) make that trade. Plus, I dont think Phil will trade the pick for a quick fix. The fans would revolt and they know that. I know they very rarely if at all care what the fans think, but Phil is not going to ruin his reputation on a longshot.

  118. Instead of Dell Curry’s kid we got the treacherous spawn of Tim Hardaway. You reap what you sow.

  119. @185. Hope you’re right. Somebody else said the same thing I keep falling back on, that Russell isn’t a phenomenal athlete. Watched a couple of Mudiay hs games, didn’t jump off the screen. Ultimately it doesn’t matter. They’re kids. Their skills will progress. We need talent. Period. So lets all just have another drink and pray for the best. We should all be used to that now.

  120. Russel has really long arms, which I think Phil likes. Maybe not as much as a big ol butt, but can’t hurt.

  121. The real takeaway from all of this is that Stern was a much better commissioner than Adam Silver.

  122. Mark Heisler (previously from LA times and very connected) thinks the Lakers will take Mudiay. Which means the Sixers probably will take Russell. Which would leave us with one of the two bigs…

    Wouldn’t they rather try to trade the pick if Okafor was still on the board? They could get some good offers. That said, I doubt the Lakers are seriously going to pick Mudiay over Okafor.

  123. Well Get ready for a Knicks/Hornets trade:

    NY sends- 4th pick, Calderon, and future 2nd

    Cha sends – 9th pick, Stephenson, 39th pick, and 2016
    1st protected

    Charlotte will get to draft Winslow or maybe pair Stein with Jefferson.

  124. I don’t think it’s that easy to trade the number 2 pick. They have no assets to trade with it to get a legit player like the Cavs did with Wiggins. And if you’re trading down you need to be sure you don’t go down too far or else the talent goes downhill way too fast.

    I’m thinking it’s a reasonable possibility that one of the bigs falls to the Knicks- mostly it comes down to whether one of the guards really impresses LA. It’s extremely hard to imagine Philly taking a big but maybe they swing a deal for Noel, embiid, or the draft pick. Tough to do that though- other teams know you don’t want to go into the season with those three.

    Overall I’m fine with Mudiay or Russell. Plenty of amazing players have been taken with the 4th pick, such as Paul and Westbrook.

  125. we should really stand pat … a really good player is going to be available at #4.. it’s going to be up to us not do anything dumb and get that last guy who will probably be that next star…

  126. I don’t think it’s that easy to trade the number 2 pick.

    Agreed, but I meant the #3 pick. The Sixers love making trades. But they also love Russell.

    I still don’t think L.A. takes Mudiay #2.

    But it’d be awesome!

  127. I gotta agree that it seems doubtful the Lakers go with Mudiay at #2. Granted they have high hopes for Randall, it just seems hard for any team to go past either Okafor or Towns in the top 2, with the exception being if Philly were picking 1 or 2.

  128. Philly seems more likely to draft Okafor or Towns and trade someone than to draft Mudiay or Russell

  129. Thats my thought too. Philly would rather trade Noel than pass on Towns/Okafor for Russell/Mudiay. However, I think the T-Wolves should be disbanded if they take Okafor over Towns or entertain trading the pick/down.

  130. I’m pretty sure I’ve now read that every combination of “Team X loves player Y!!!” for all of the top 5 teams and top 10 players so I’m going to go ahead and say that nobody has any fucking clue who they prefer yet. pretty sure the Sixers didn’t actually go from loving Russell to loving Mudiay in the last 25 minutes.

  131. LOL. Anyone who thinks our front office is the problem has never seen our owner play with his blues band. Do you even own a tv troll?

  132. Of the top 4, I would say that Russell worries me the most. You have to have elite athleticism in today’s league, and not sure Russell has that. Okafor’s not elite either, but better off than Russell, especially for the positions they play.

    Best fits seem to be: Towns to Wolves, Russell to Lakers, Mudinay to Sixers, anyone to Knicks.

  133. No, you’re still wrong.

    I’m sure any player available with the fourh pick will have some fuals. Which kids would you like to see the Knicks draf?

  134. Chris Herring tweeted:

    Mills, asked whether it was a mistake to win some of those final games down the stretch: Says players are playing to win; can’t fault them.

    Well, maybe you can fault THJ for the showboating, but yes, in general, you cannot fault the players. You can, however, fault the people who allowed them to succeed in games where a win would fuck the Knicks, both wins where the Knicks easily could have lost. I’d much prefer something like, “Oops, we made a mistake.” This organization just will never cop to mistakes. “We didn’t make a mistake, the jury was wrong!”

  135. If you take the two bigs out of of the question, that leaves:
    Mudiay
    Russell
    Winslow

    I’m not so sure Winslow isn’t the best prospect out of the three. He’s an active defender who is very effective against the pick and roll, and he did shoot the trey consistently well all year. Out of the three players Winslow seems to have the highest floor, lowest ceiling.

  136. Well the 4th pick is a problem when you were hoping for the 1st and Towns. But, yes, the Knicks should get a cornerstone player with the 4th pick; who may wind up being the best player in the draft.

  137. Out of the three players Winslow seems to have the highest floor, lowest ceiling.

    Great description. Thing is, Johnson is quite good, as well. If you’re interested in a guy like that, why not just trade down?

  138. Phil Jackson and Derek Fisher should be proud they’re picking 4th instead of 1st. After the most abysmal season in knicks history, these guys had the balls to defend their season ending wins. As if they meant something, other than the team falling in the draft lottery.
    I’d fire them both right now if I owned the team . . . before they do further damage. . . . which you can count on. But as a fan, I’m hoping Phil stays just to see how he screws up the draft pick.

  139. He’s an active defender who is very effective against the pick and roll, and he did shoot the trey consistently well all year. Out of the three players Winslow seems to have the highest floor, lowest ceiling.

    I don’t recall Winslow guarding and chasing many 2s off of screens. Its great to trap pgs of of PnRs and even switch on to them and play good man to man occasionally but can he guard players constantly on the move.

    However, despite all my questions about Winslow he is now the new Dwyane Wade in my head.

  140. Where the heck is Joe dumars when you need him to shack up the draft. smh

  141. Knicks are not going to pick Mudiay. That would be the conventional thing to do.
    Phil is going to do some weird, dumb shit to try to outsmart everyone. And it won’t work.

  142. Mudiay does not seem to be a triangle type player; he’s a classic lead guard who likes to dribble a lot. So I dunno. I mean, I don’t personally give a shit about the triangle anymore but Phil is certainly not done cramming it down our throats yet.

    I think if Mudiay and Winslow are both on the board, Winslow is be the safer pick. Mudiay’s game has a lot of holes. I’m a big Stanley Johnson fan, but I have to concede that Winslow seems to have more potential as a two-way player. Stanley’s perimeter shooting fell off badly during conference play.

    So of course, the pick will be Mudiay.

  143. I was bummed about getting #4 but I’m warming up to the idea of drafting one of these young guards.

    The upside, if we don’t trade the pick and then player turns out to be good, is that the FA pool this year is very big man heavy. Gasol, Aldridge, Monroe, Lopez, Deandre, Hibbert, Milsaps. In theory we could get a great young PG and a pretty good big man to add to our starting 5. Towns or Okafor would have been nice no doubt but the FA guard pool is much lighter. It’s not all bad. We still got a top 4 pick and close to 30 million in cap space. Can we afford Butler and Monroe?

  144. Can we afford Butler and Monroe?

    Bizarrely enough, no. Getting the #4 pick instead of the #1 and #2 picks actually does give the Knicks more cap room (a little over $1 million) but not enough for two max offers.

  145. First, I just wanted to say: fuck the Lakers.

    Second, none of us know anything. Certainly seems like this isn’t one of those drafts where there is a consensus best-guy-by-far (LeBron, Anthony Davis) so we’ll just have to cross our fingers. Given our front office’s track record over the past 15 years, maybe not picking first will work in our favor.

    One thing is for sure, I’ll be psyched to root for whichever one of these dudes lands on our team. Towns, Mudiay, Russell, Okafor, Winslow, Cauley-Stein … any one of ’em should be starting on this dreck-filled roster next year and have a chance to shine.

    Also, it’s a guards and wings league these days. I think we end up with Russell or Mudiay when all is said and done, and maybe that’s for the best.

  146. Second, none of us know anything. Certainly seems like this isn’t one of those drafts where there is a consensus best-guy-by-far (LeBron, Anthony Davis) so we’ll just have to cross our fingers.

    True, there were two best-guys-by-far.

    I mean, sure, things might work out, and Russell or Mudiay (or Winslow even ) are no slouches, but Towns and Okafor are the prizes of the draft.

    That being said, I’d take any one of the top four guys over the #1 picks from the last two drafts (and possibly Winslow over Wiggins, too), so yes, it is a good draft to have a top four pick in.

  147. Mudiay is just… I don’t know, I just don’t get a good feeling about Mudiay. He seems like a poor fit here for a number of reasons:
    -he’s a poor shooter from the floor
    -he’s a poor shooter from the free throw line
    -he’s still raw and needs tons of development, probably will not be a productive player his first few seasons
    -he’s a lead guard who is best with the ball in his hands which does not mesh well with Triangle ZenBall
    -his need to have the ball in his hands to be effective does not mesh well with the team’s “star” player Carmelo Anthony

  148. That’s why I have Mudiay below Russell, because yeah, if he doesn’t develop his shot, he’s pretty much Tyreke Evans with better passing skills (which means he’s a $12 million level guy).

    But if he ever does develop his shot…wow, what a player.

    I don’t like betting on guys fixing their problems in the pros, though, so I’d prefer the more definite skills of Towns, Okafor and Russell, but Mudiay’s upside is really high.

    And yes, he doesn’t fit the Triangle or Melo, but, well, I don’t think that should impact the decision to draft someone.

  149. stop debating who we take with the #4 and start looking at which vet triangle guard we trade the pick for (paired with the corpse of jose calderon). you heard it hear eighth.

  150. Second, none of us know anything. Certainly seems like this isn’t one of those drafts where there is a consensus best-guy-by-far (LeBron, Anthony Davis) so we’ll just have to cross our fingers. Given our front office’s track record over the past 15 years, maybe not picking first will work in our favor.

    One thing is for sure, I’ll be psyched to root for whichever one of these dudes lands on our team. Towns, Mudiay, Russell, Okafor, Winslow, Cauley-Stein … any one of ‘em should be starting on this dreck-filled roster next year and have a chance to shine.

    Best comment on the thread.

    Not sure I can get on board with what is everyone is saying re: the tanking. I get that we would have been in a better position today if we had of lost those couple of games at the end of the season, but I do not agree with how Minny went about it, actively keeping healthy player out and obviously throwing games. I am probably going to get shit canned for this, but I would rather have the number 4 pick than have to resort to cheap tactics to get a number 1. If your team legit sucks, your odds should reflect that, not because you were able to exploit a flawed system. Again, I appreciate the impending shit canning ha ha

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