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68 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2026.08.03)”
Good morning, all! Hope you all had fantastic weekends. 🙂
Re: “Melo made the knicks relevant again.
There’s a reason he’s so high on that list.
If The supporting cast got his Vitamins and didn’t throw mitchpunches we may hadn’t waited 53yrs…”
My response: Huh?
Was never a Melo fan. Especially when we gutted the team to get him.
I think my feelings about Melo are generally well known. My focus now is to not think about him unless absolutely necessary.
So after thinking about it a bit, I thought it best to put 26 players into Tiers rather than a strict order. Here’s what I came up with:
Tier 1:
Brunson
Tier 2:
OG
KAT
Tier 3:
Mikal
Josh
Melo
Randle
Tier 4:
Mitch
Tyson
KP
Amar’e
Tier 5:
Deuce
IQ
RJ
David
iHart
JR
Marbury
Tier 6:
Nate
DRose
Jamal
Shamet
TH2
Lin
Shump
Gallo
Honorable Mention:
Burks
Felton
Obi
Grimes
Wilson
Yeah, but also…….where to vitamins and something called “mitchpunches” even come into play? I don’t even know what the latter is referencing. Mitch (allegedly) punching a wall? What does that have to do with Melo?
Again……. Huh?
Also, who is “Wilson” in this scenario?:
Honorable Mention:
Burks
Felton
Obi
Grimes
Wilson
Wilson Chandler, maybe? That’s the best I can come up with.
Yes.
Thank you for the clarification as always, Z-man!!! 🙂
2026 NBA offseason rankings: Knicks, Warriors, Trail Blazers among bottom 10 (The Athletic Daily): https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/7458585/2026/08/03/nba-offseason-rankings-warriors-blazers-knicks/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983&userId=10333007&source=dailyemail
Melo’s main problem was that he saw himself as a #1 option at a time when the game was shifting towards raising efficiency, but he couldn’t or wouldn’t adapt and change his game before he ultimately started declining due to injury and age.
That was something I always loved about Gallinari’s game. Melo had way more skill than Gallinari, but Gallo knew what he could do well and stuck to it. He scored less and couldn’t “close” like Melo, but when he was healthy his teams were a lot better when he was on the court because he was more efficient on good volume.
Kp Vitamins
Amare Punch
Melo’s game and bball mentality weren’t ideal to get a chip as it seemed but he was still the leader of our best chance for something meaningful in the previous decade.
“Kp Vitamins
Amare Punch”
Thanks very much. The Porzingis and Amar’e parts were difficult to parse since neither of those guys were actually mentioned. Not sure KP’s problem has ever been lack of vitamins, however.
Regardless, though…….Why “mitchpunches”?
What does Melo in for me when it comes to evaluating his Knicks legacy is that he was a playoff dud, a few specific games notwithstanding.
I have completely come around to the argument that there are players who due to some combination of skillset and mental makeup are playoff risers, and thus the totality of their value isn’t captured, and maybe not by a long shot, by regular season metrics. This clearly applies to Brunson.
They way Melo’s most ardent fans talk about him, you would think it applied to Melo too…but it simply didn’t. He had a .496 TS% in the playoffs with us (yes it was a different era, yes that was still bad).
So I’m not really sure what I’m supposed to buy into when looking back at the era. Outside of the single 2012-2013 season, when you could kinda, sorta talk yourself into an “if everything goes exactly right” scenario, I mostly spent it being upset we were far from contention, and partially because of Melo’s salary and the trade assets we gave up for him, had no plausible means of getting there.
I was excited about the potential for a reset in the summer of 2014, but then Phil Jackson made Melo the highest paid player in the NBA and gave him a full no trade clause. After that I knew we were cooked. At least there were no playoff disappointments during the Phil Jackson era, though!
The one thing I will say in regard to the Melo playoff record is that there was a hard ceiling on that team at “whoever LeBron James played for.” In terms of playoff performance in that 3-year run, he was no more disappointing to me than Amar’e and Chandler. And all of those teams had glaring holes.
In 2011, we got swept by the Celts who were still pretty good (56 wins). Other than compromised Amar’e, his fellow starters were Ron Turiaf, Landry Fields, and TDDWTDD. We had chances to win both game 1 and 2.
In 2012, we lost 4-1 to the eventual champion Heatles. Tyson Chandler had a .491 TS% in that season.
We all know what happened in 2013.
*Chandler had a .491 TS% in that series
The other thing I will say for Melo in terms of his ranking on this list is that he had the closest thing to an MVP season (3rd in voting) of any Knick in this era. He was the league’s scoring champion and had a TS+ of 105 on the highest usage in the NBA. To put that into perspective, Jalen Brunson only hit a TS+ of 105 once while with the Knicks.
Like many pre-Leon era Knicks players, he suffered from the clown show above him, in the front office and the owner’s box. The leadup to getting him was a comedy of errors, the trade for him was botched, the fielding of a contending team around him was virtually impossible, the whole MTA thing crashed and burned, and then Phil applied the coup de grace. Melo definitely has culpability, including the original sin of forcing a trade rather than just waiting for the new CBA and signing as a free agent.
I think Mike Woodson was the only coach to use Melo correctly when he was a Knick. So it’s hard for me to really judge Melo’s time there. But I do know that Melo has had elite scoring ability his entire career. Until teams started asking him to be a connector and stand in the corner. I think he still could have gotten 20 a night then too, though. The problem with Melo was we all wished he took advantage of his gravity more to set guys up. He’s alot like Dominique Wilkins in that regard. Phenomenal scorer and rebounder at his position, but not much in the way of keeping guys involved. I blame AAU and the media. And Jordan a little. There’s nothing wrong with aspiring to be like Mike. Problem is – the picture that was painted about Mike is he was all scoring when he was more than that. But AAU mentality teaches these kids that if you can score and dunk, that you’re great
It’s hard to accept any Melo apologia that suggests he was betrayed by his supporting cast.
The jab step, jab step, jab step, hoooooold, 19-footer off the side of the rim/bitch at the refs for a foul while a fast break went the other way/half-hearted defense type stuff that happened nightly is one thing. The weird politics while he was here (D’Antoni resignation and Lin decision) is another.
But the trade to get him here was the original sin and the rest might have been moot if not for that. Dolan owns a large part of the blame but the first domino to fall in that whole situation was Melo prioritizing his extension under an expiring CBA and The Melo Era was DOA because of that
Just to be clear, I’m not suggesting that he was “betrayed” by his supporting cast….only that his supporting cast was never very good, and that the guys who were supposed to be good underperformed in the playoffs just as much as he did.
But again, Melo had a huge part in that. Had he risked losing some money and coming here as a free agent, he would have had a much better supporting cast (although the incompetence above him might have even fucked that up!) So he betrayed himself by wanting his cake and eating it too.
This isn’t a good comparison though. Average TS% by position steadily increases from point guards to centers, so it hurts a team more to get subpar efficiency from a wing/forward like Melo than a point guard like Brunson.
This is also what made Melo’s playoff duds so bad.
Reading an interesting if chaotic piece in The Ringer by Pina that is arm-wrestling with analytics and eye test, and is using Jaylen Brown as his main example (and less so, Derrick White). Reading it I felt like I could replace Brown’s name throughout with Melo. Interestingly, Pina says his next piece will be a list of Jaylen Brown All-Stars — wonder if he’ll include Melo in that list…
“This isn’t a good comparison though. Average TS% by position steadily increases from point guards to centers, so it hurts a team more to get subpar efficiency from a wing/forward like Melo than a point guard like Brunson.”
You can group players by position by position (e.g. PG, PF) or you can group them by role independent of position (e.g. high-usage primary scorer, rim protector, facilitator.) Personally, I think it’s far more valid to compare Melo to guys who take a ton of their team’s shots.
But I agree that Melo never really came up big in the playoffs, certainly not in comparison to his contract.
The only thing Melo ever made me dream about is what could have been if we hadn’t traded for him.
frustrating stint here from melo…some highs…lots and lots of lows though…
felt like he never cared about making the team (and his teammates) better…
one of those souls who seemed to think if they get theirs (offensively of course) all the boats around him would float higher…
so yeah, the thing i remember most is his reluctance to move the ball and play that “beautiful game”…
that and those endless lazy swipes at the ball in favor of actually moving his feet and taking just a little pride in defense…
hmmmmmm, now starting to wonder about my least favorite knick players over the last 40 years or so…
too lit to be legit noah comes to mind pretty quickly…
guys like bargnani and curry don’t really fit the bill…they just sucked talent wise…
I was definitely dreaming big when we were up 3-0 vs. Boston in the first round, with the Celts not even scoring 80 points in any of those games. Then JR Smith threw a stupid elbow that woke the Celts up and it was all downhill after that. Remember the whole “black uniform” thing in Game 5?
I tried to like Melo. I really did. I was fully on the Melo bandwagon in the Woodson season.
And then the 2013 playoffs happened, and he became the most egregious ball hog I’d ever seen.
I went to around 30 games that year. I remember game 1 against the Celtics he looked like a completely different player than he had all season. It was like he made a choice: “all that team-first shit is over now, it’s the playoffs, and I’m paid to do everything.”
I actually felt bad for the guy. He seemed to truly believe that was the way.
I went to check out the stats to see if memory was correct, and boy was it ever:
38.0 USG (led all players)
25.8 FGA/game (led all players)
9.3 AST%
1.4 AST/36
.434 eFG% (league average in ’13 was .496)
Even King in ’84 wasn’t that selfish, he was scoring on almost every play.
did not like rose flaking out and leaving the team…hindsight now, see it as more a health related situation…plus, he had the chance to return and redeem himself a bit…still, knick player low point for sure…
while it was happening wasn’t too happy with the marbury situation…looking back on that one, the idea it takes two to tango (really poor coaching leadership) seems to apply…plus, he went to china, became a star, and now hangs courtside smiling…
yeah, as far as least fave knicks, aside from melo (who seemed to handle himself well off court) would probably focus more on any repeated negative team related conduct…
shit, wanna throw thibs in there for the kemba situation…
billups continually shooting pull up logo shots didn’t sit well with me…
My Top 10 Costly Zero-Upside Players of the post-Ewing era
Curry
Noah
Bargs
Big Snacks
McDyess
Frank
Knox
Balkman
Hill
Reddish
Lots of Honorable Mention candidates
Melo only came up big in the Olympics during the first round when USA played Zimbabawe or some sorry ass team…then when the shit hit the fan in the later rounds…he shriveled up when it counted and had to have Kobe or someone else bring it home…i was glad that KD blew by him for all time leader…but to me that is his career in a nutshell (the NCAA championship notwithstanding) that he never elevated any team when it mattered…
I’ve always wondered how much damage that NCAA championship might have done for his career, like maybe he got too much positive reinforcement for bad behavior and his neural pathways became set for life. Most of these guys learn the hard way they can’t do it all by themselves when they get to college. Melo learned the opposite.
I personally think that Steve Francis was a lot more costly and had a lot less upside than Balkman. And most of those other guys too.
Least favorite Knicks ever? Now we’re talkin’!
Strickland (not Erick)
Anthony (not Greg)
Smith (not Charles, Chris, or Dennis)
Dolan (also not Charles)
Now my least favorite Knicks since I’ve been watching? I have 4 that I can’t separate lol. In no particular order- Howard Eisley, Shandon Anderson, Steve Francis (only because he was super washed when he got to us, helluva fall..sheesh), and Gary fawkin Grant
DW, I thought of Francis, and should have included him. He hurt both on the way in and the way out. Well, he did get Larry Brown fired, which sort of greased the skids for getting Isiah fired, so there’s that.
Punching something hard enough before a playoffs series started with Amare before continuing with Mitch…
OK; thanks. The context wasn’t originally made clear (at least not to me) without mention of actual players, but I guess I get it now. 🙂
This is one of the things Wins Produced and David Berri more or less got right, but the game has changed a lot since then.
Now there are less defined roles for each position.
So it’s harder to make positional adjustments. It’s more like we need A, B, C, D and E and we’ll try to get enough of each from whatever position we can. Like Z-man said it’s more of a role thing, but I think your point still has some validity.
Are we talking about his cost because we could have taken Rondo? In that case, you might as well include Cleanthony Early, since we could have taken Joker with that pick.
If you have a high scoring efficient point guard who stretches the floor and. who doesn’t commit many turnovers and draws a lot of offensive fouls (while playing mediocre defense,) that gives you a ton of flexibility in roster constructions
When your high scoring player is a power forward who plays no defense and doesn’t like to fastbreak and is a mediocre distributor and floor spacer, that isn’t ideal for roster construction.
Just hypothetically speaking of course.
And I know we are talking about players we didn’t like, but I loved Pablo Prigioni. That guy kept me alive as a Knick fan and I hope he ends up coaching a title team at some point.
Melo drove Lin and D’Antoni out of town. Only reason he played PF under Woodson was injuries. He insisted on being a SF.
Melo was extraordinarily talented but his ego was too big to win.
If the championship squad hadn’t figured it out 15 games ago they’d get the same hate treatment too and it’d be easy to understand why.
Fuck them picks, Josh can’t shoot, JB ball hog, KAT soft and OGbutterfinger were waiting in the shadows 2 months ago …
Fans are mostly result driven creatures and sometimes All You Need to succeed Is a better supporting cast, a smart coach and some Love!
KYN – I don’t think that’s true. I did hate Melo from the start, I still think Gallo was a better player. But I think most of us have been highly appreciative of the current team and would have been so regardless of how this year worked out.
You mean basketball player or is it a Dostoyevskyesque expression?
Owen when the Fanatics of AC Milan are booeing Paolo Maldini in his farewell game i guess Everything is possible in sports.
Everyone has his own standards when it comes to fandom.
Gallo was a better 3Pt shooter, foul shooter, and had a better eFG%, but otherwise lagged well behind Melo in most everything else, including FG%. He was a weaker rebounder despite being three inches taller, and was also worse in blocks and in assists (!). And that includes per 36.
He was way more fun to watch, however. But that’s something else.
I remember going to a Nuggets game at MSG when Renaldo Balkman completely shut down Melo in the 4th quarter and thinking “we finally got our defensive stopper”
And then he turned into a pumpkin
No, I think KYN is right about that, Owen! I was ready to drive KAT to the airport in a compact car with very little leg room. And for once there weren’t a lot of people arguing with me! (It was just E & Bob standing up for him IIRC… and Director had this crazy idea that all these struggles were going to make the Knicks stronger.)
Never liked Kat’s soft game mentality and if they hadn’t got the title I’d be asking for him to be traded the first sec after a possible knicks elimination.
Now He’s My favourite Center!
😁
The guy I really never warmed up to was Amar’e. His one “good” season with the Knicks was way overrated, and then predictably he was an injury prone mess for the remainder of his tenure.
100% disagree. I never would have questioned Jalen, Josh, OG. But you’re basically saying if Mikal and KAT had continued playing like ass, we would not be happy, and obviously that’s true. But if everyone played hard and reasonably well, there would be nothing to complain about. Sometimes the other team is better.
Melo, though, had no idea what it is to be a winner. Just a scorer.
#But you’re basically saying if Mikal and KAT had continued playing like ass, we would not be happy, and obviously that’s true.#
No
I’m actually saying that if we had lost 0-4 by the Spurs nomatter how hard everyone played ALL PLAYERS’ game Limitations and blunders would have come up like dead fishes in the sea and every knicks fan would shoot them till the sun stops shining.
And everyone would propose trade ideas.
Devil and Appreciation many times are in the same place…the details
I disagree with that, KYN. Once this team figured it out, it didn’t need to finish the job to have my support. If they played their ass off in the final and lost, my opinion of KAT and Mikal would still have changed permanently.
Unfortunately It’s a competitive sport.
Playing hard most times ain’t enough for the fans.
Winning is the goal.
Let’s say that the Knicks had played as they played and lose 0-4.
Who’d be pleased?
Every player would have been up for trade.
And i mean Everyone.
Brown too.
And even the Knicks City Dancers!!
It’s very weird here tonight.
Doogie, since the standard for these rankings is, to quote from the article, “ These rankings ask, and try to answer, one question: Is the team better now than it was at the end of last season?”, where would you expect the Knicks to be? We clearly did not improve over the off season, even if we stayed good. The rankings are much more embarrassing for the Trail Blazers, who were pretty bad last year and made significant trades to try and get better.
I was just posting the link for the interest of anyone who wanted to read it. I knew the goal of the article, and didn’t really have any strong opinion on it one way or the other.
Gersson Rosas leaving. I feel like he had some baggage when he came right? Rehabilitation complete.
I was once a consultant for a former NBA player who was instrumental to a pretty cool championship run. He at some point told me Melo was the reason he retired. He came in the league and was like so good and unguardable. The guy I worked with knew it was over when… problem is Melo came home and then refused to do the dishes or take out the trash. No thank you please.
I don’t understand that story….
I dont hate Melo as a person. But yeah, I dislike everything about his game, the manner of his coming to NYC, and basically the entire way he handled his professional business. He wa solid that one year but not that great.
And I think Gallo was the better player, full stop, when the trade happened. Advanced stats backed it up, such as we had at the time.
Certainly, I would have liked our team much more just keeping Gallo and all our assets and cap space.
The Nuggets were much better after that trade. And then Gallo blew out his knee.
And Gallo was a real SF
Yeah, no. There’d always be some who complain, but the vast majority would have accepted it. Just like we accepted the 90s teams. It was frustrating to be less than the Bulls and the Rockets, but we all loved the heart of those teams.
Exactly. But Melo couldn’t have those things because he’d rather be Melo.
Melo is the reason the supporting cast sucked most of the time. He’s why Lin left for nothing. He’s why we didn’t have Gallo and several other rotation players.
He’s the reason a good coach left town in D’Antoni. The only reason Melo let Woodson play him at the 4 was injuries and then it worked so well that he couldn’t refuse anymore.
At the end of the day, KAT bought in. He played defense. He passed. He didn’t need to score. If KAT hadn’t done that, then we wouldn’t have won a championship. Those are all the things Melo never did and it’s a large part of why we never won with him.
I don’t even know if Melo would have succeeded with a better supporting cast.
If you could air drop Melo in his prime onto the 2026 Knicks I think he’d fuck it up.
I am not, nor never was, a big fan of his game or his antics. But the fact is, there is not a single player from any of those squads that you could have switched Melo with and gotten past any of those LeBron teams while Melo was here. Except LeBron himself.
And that wasn’t Melo’s fault. It was management’s (Dolan’s) fault for making the deal. They should have called both his and Ujiri’s bluff and they didn’t.
And please, stop with the Jeremy Lin stuff. He said himself that he made a mistake, and knew it at the time. And he was never a difference-maker after Linsanity. Those teams needed a lot more than a decent backup PG.
There was so much wrong with that team. Amar’e was shot. Chandler came up tiny against Hibbert. JR was a flake. Melo was the lightning rod, and deservedly so, but he took way more blame than he deserved at the time, and that continues here today. And we can guess as to whether he would have succeeded if he had a better supporting cast here, but we’ll never know for sure.
.
There’s actually a possibility Tyler Nickel could be a draft and stash by returning to college for a year. He was one of our few Summer league positives, so I have mixed feelings about it. Here’s a quote from Hoopsrumors:
In this case Smith is Braden Smith picked 38th in the draft and he said he has no intention of going back to college.
See the full article at
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2026/08/second-rounder-braden-smith-not-considering-purdue-return.html
Just like in Melo’s case who was voted 4th!
“There’d always be some who complain, but the vast majority would have accepted it.”
The only difference is that “some who complain” are all gathered in here!
😉😂
When the evaluation of the players is based on BPM and league’s averages the only way you’ll love, accept and appreciate your team is when it’s been better than its opponents not just playing hard.
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