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Knicks Bulletin: ‘We want to get to the Finals and we should win the Finals’ – Posting & Toasting
Knicks putting themselves in a bind with Kevin McCullar’s recent emergence – Posting & Toasting
Knicks’ Landry Shamet: Remaining out vs. LAC – CBS Sports
Knicks not flustered by results amid latest losing skid: ‘The sky isn’t falling’ – SNY
Knicks Injury Tracker: Josh Hart, Landry Shamet remain out for Wednesday’s game vs. Clippers – SNY
Pistons send message to Knicks and the NBA: They’re the team to beat in the East – The New York Times
‘Can’t Be This Bad,’ KAT Talks Poor Play as Jalen Brunson Calls Out Knicks After Loss – BleacherReport
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119 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2026.01.08)”
The Athletic gives the Wiz an A for the acquisition of Trae Young (mainly cap management but also on-court)… I imagine they can add and remove Trae from the lineup should they need to mitigate risk of losing their pick to the Knicks.
Porzingis’s name is in rumors for Anthony Davis-to-the-Hawks. How about the one that got away as a rental who could provide the Knicks some front court depth?
This is going to be an important test for Adam Silver if the Wizards start giving Trae fake injuries to protect their pick. The league’s talking about trying to fix this as if they don’t already have the power to do it. The $750k fine Silver levied on Dallas for sitting Luka wasn’t exactly a deterrent.
Need some color on Tyler’s +18
DS, Porzingis makes over $30 mil this year. There is no way to bring him back without sending out multiple rotation guys. (Unless we send them KAT and they send us KP plus other guys.) Just not doable.
This is the problem when, other than Deuce, all of your best and most important players are your highest-paid players. Trades become really difficult.
I was thinking a package around Mitch, but you’re right that wouldn’t even be close.
Bill Simmons is pushing Davis for KAT.
I dunno, I don’t actually hate it.
I don’t hate it. We’re essentially hoping to catch OKC in a vulnerable moment in the Finals one of the next few years, right? Would AD over KAT be the difference? Possibly?
Pros for the AD/KAT swap:
* AD is the much better defensive player when healthy, and would solve the whole “you can’t win a title when your two best players are as bad on D as KAT and Jalen” problem.
* He’s still a very good offensive player, so it’s not like we’d be swapping out KAT for a pure defensive specialist.
Cons to the trade:
* “When healthy” is, as always, doing a lot of the heavy lifting for AD. KAT’s not a Mikal-style iron man, but his health record is vastly better than AD’s. The best ability is availability.
* AD’s shot has never been the same since the bubble title. You lose a lot of the spacing that can make our attack so lethal when KAT plays center.
* AD remains incredibly reluctant to be a full-time center. And unlike the Dallas roster, we don’t have the big man depth to primarily play him at the 4. Maybe the chance to go to another title contender finally gives him the come to Jesus moment he’s needed for years and years? But as we often say with fellow Kentucky alum KAT, when you’ve been in the league this long, you are who you’ve always been.
I wouldn’t do it.
No way I’d do KAT for Davis. This is asking for trouble. We’d be running a lineup with two non-shooters for a lot of time (as Hart will not magically stop playing 30+ min a night), and two non-creators in Mikal and OG. Brunson would be in a tin box. Just get the team back to where they were in Oct-Dec, find a POA defender or a backup center as Mitch insurance, and call it a trade deadline.
A Daniels/NAW/Johnson/Davis lineup (not sure who plays the 3/4 next to Jalen Johnson, I assume Risacher is gone in a trade) would be excellent defensively, but I don’t know that it would have the offensive juice to compete. If I were them, I’d try to pair KP and Davis.
There is zero question that a “healthy” AD in the playoffs would significantly increase our chances of advancing in ach and every round. So the only reason to make that trade is if you truly believe that this is our best and only chance to win with this core.
Of course, a “healthy” AD is a mirage, and we’ve been through that before with the illusion of a “healthy” Amar’e.
I would understand doing it and if it happened I would hold my nose and start praying, but would not advocate for it or do it if it were up to me.
And that it should even be seriously considered is a major strike against KAT, in terms of both his game and his contract situation. Considering that KAT is younger, healthier, and slightly cheaper, it should really be an emphatic NO, as marechal said. But raising our “theoretical” ceiling THIS YEAR is at least a reason to consider it.
“If healthy” is too much of a risk with AD.
I agree that we should really just roll with what we have and see if there is a smaller trade we can make to shore up the bench and defense. Yabu showed some life last night but still think the move is to trade him and Dadiet and maybe a second round pick for a nice bench piece. Hart and Shamet returning will both be big pick ups for us.
Seasons have ups and downs. KAT’s pouting may very well be justified to some degree as the team continues to figure out how to keep Brunson, KAT, OG and Mikal all happy on offense. The defense needs Mikal and OG badly but if they aren’t getting touches, I can imagine it’s hard to keep up the defensive intensity all game and when they lag, the team suffers. On any given night one of the main four (or two) will have to sacrifice on offense depending on match ups and who has the hot hand. Brown is still figuring out the team too.
There it is:
https://bsky.app/profile/mikeascotto.bsky.social/post/3mbv5sgjw4s2m
Silver won’t do anything about it. Those fines the owners laugh at won’t change anything.
Trae will pick up his player option and try to rehab his image next season for a long term deal
This is why Silver needs to get rid of pick protections.
Not surprised. They’re probably going to do what the San Antonio Tanks shamelessly did with Fox last year (in case you weren’t paying attention, the whole reason the Tanks got Dylan Harper is bc they shut Fox down with about 20 games to go to get surgery on a tendon in his pinkie finger, which Fox publicly admitted he had no problem playing with at all).
Why go to that extreme? Just have players evaluated by a league doctor. They’re not going to lie.
It was bad enough Mark Cuban had to explain to Luka that he wasn’t going to play. Can you imagine Cuban also saying “and I need you to lie to the league doctor about it to cover for us — if you don’t really sell this fake injury we might lose our pick.”
No team is going to have that conversation with their players.
And if anyone does get busted doing it, the punishment is their pick gets moved to the end of the lottery. Problem solved.
To be fair to Washington, though, there are real reasons to be cautious with Trae. Quad injuries are tricky and he’s missed 30 games already this season.
I’m just bitter about San Antonio tanking their way to a dynasty again and Mark Cuban getting away with keeping that pick from us. Those egregious examples could have been dealt with better. This is one we likely have to accept.
“Sorry, kids I’m not coming home anytime soon because I have to work overtime tonight to pay for that X-Ray your little brother had out-of-pocket. But I’m glad Trae Young got that free one from the league office to prove the Wizards were lying about his MCL so the Knicks have a better shot at the #9 pick this June.”
And I’m a huge no KAT for AD. We gotta stop breaking this team up. Fringe trades only.
lol the NBA isn’t using Obamacare, my dude.
mike mcdaniel out in miami
I’m also not all-in on fringe trades, to be honest. While I’d love to never see Yabu filling out his X-large Knicks jersey again, and if he and Dadiet were devoured by voles one night I’m not sure anyone would notice their absence, when Josh and Shamet come back and with Kolek clearly demanding floor time it’s going to be a mess related to minutes.
I do think we could use some length in the backup wing department (Diawara is fun but not yet dependable), and while Huk did average… ~57.6 rebounds per 36 last night, having a more seasoned backup should Mitch go down for a while could be useful. But I worry…
Sorry, I know you guys can smell my cappuccinos through your screen today, but what about — this summer, not now — Mikal and Josh for AD instead?
Brunson
Deuce
OG
Davis
KAT
AD hates playing Center, KAT hates not playing Center. They’re perfect together.
Deuce guards point of attack, AD protects the rim, OG destroys everything in between. That’s about as good a defense you can build around Brunson and KAT.
You can play Mitch off the bench with either Davis or KAT (the Deuce-OG-Davis-Mitch lineups would kill teams defensively).
And frankly I think it’s already time to pass the torch from Josh to Deuce. But next year, when Josh is 32 and Deuce is in his walk year, it will definitely be time. You can’t have Deuce wanting to leave because he’s stuck on the bun
Everyone’s rushing to try to land John Harbaugh. I assume the Giants will find a way to mess this up.
Most NBA players probably have something going on with them that warrants resting by the midpoint of the season. A lot of it is going to be minor stuff you can play through, but it wouldn’t be difficult for a team to come up with a passable reason to sit a player.
The Wizards’ pick conveying as a first is so unlikely I find it more rational to root against them in the interests of making the second(s) as high as possible. They are genuinely very, very bad, so I can’t get too worked up about them ensuring they keep the pick, unlike Dallas tanking themselves out of a potential playoff berth, which I thought was a disgrace for the sport.
Re: AD, no. He might be cooked. He’s missed a ton of games this year and has been very underwhelming in the ones he’s played in. So we wouldn’t just be hoping for him to be healthy, we’d also be hoping him getting a lot worse at age 32 (almost 33) is some kind of coincidence.
KAT’s offensive decision making was really starting to bother me before the second half of last night’s game and I hardly view him as untouchable, but Dallas would make out like bandits if they got a younger, more durable player back for AD, especially one who isn’t even clearly worse if you assume perfect health.
Rumor is Harbaugh may want to go to Miami, but Tua isn’t the answer and the Dolphins 🐬 are stuck with him
Harbaugh is going to have the pick of the litter and while the Giants have some enticing core pieces, the dysfunction of the Mara regime detailed by Dan Duggan in the Athletic would make the job very unappealing in the absence of conditions that the Mara clan be castrated of their authority.
Did anyone see KAT’s postgame interview with Alan Hahn last night? He seemed totally dissociated from what had just happened. It could be something beyond the Knicks ( eg worrying about his fiance), but the man seemed deeply troubled.
Some degree of judgment can be used.
You can’t do anything about Trae Young, who has been dealing with an injury all year.
But take the Fox example. He suffered the injury in training camp. He played with it for 64 games and missed zero time. He literally said “I know I can play right now, I’ve been playing with this all season.” And they shut him down for the season with 18 games left so they could tank their way down the standings and end up with Dylan Harper.
Or the Luka example. He was healthy and he said as much, and the motivation for tanking was very clear.
To sit here and say “we can’t do anything about this bc their injuries are passable” is just willful ignorance on the league’s part.
If you can suspend Patrick Ewing for a decisive playoff game because he walked to half court during a melee, you can move a team’s pick to the end of the lottery when it’s obvious what they’re doing.
Was also thinking the Falcons could be interesting for Harbaugh ( an 8-9 Carolina Panthers team just won the division )
why might kat be worried about his fiancee they just announced their engagment two weeks ago
Yeah, I’m fine with a very valuable #33 pick in a pretty deep draft (and also I have no confidence in the Wiz players).
Also big no on AD. Our window is already small and we can’t afford a constantly injured star who is past his prime.
We need a backup rim defender, although Huk is probably as good at that skill as any vet min or buyout we could get.
Same goes for Kolek and backup PG.
Obviously we could use another big who can shoot and defend instead of Yabu, but we might have more luck coaching up/trimming down Yabu than moving him for what’s available.
I know it’s not sexy, but the best plan is probably to keep tightening up this group and then work on Giannis this summer.
If you read between the lines of various interviews and comments by the beats, going all the way back to training camp, it’s possible that Brown and KAT aren’t getting along. Which, if so, would not be ideal for a coach and his second-best player while still in the honeymoon phase.
I see Dyson Daniels brother could be in this upcoming draft .. solid positional size and a good defender .
Plus some solid talent could be around in the early second
I don’t think the league is going to look at an injury and say “you can’t have surgery or rest”, whether or not you can play through it.
Everyone on this board wanted Josh to get surgery on his hand even though he insisted he could play on it. He clearly can play on it, but he’s visibly injured and it would be crazy to punish a team for having him get surgery.
Alan, I’m thinking the same thing. KAT has put out there since training camp that he did not understand his role in the offense and after the Detroit game, he seemed to reach the apex of that feeling. Clearly, the team met and JB reacted by trying to get more players involved ( taking only 12 shots), but this seems to be a pretty deep rooted issue, which if not resolved would severely undermine the chances of a deep playoff run.
The Wizards suck but Trae is still a really valuable player when healthy. He’s a big step up from what McCollum and Kispert were giving them.
He wouldn’t be at the top of my list to start building a championship team (but of course did take a team to the ECF), but if you want to win some regular season games he’s pretty good for that. Maybe the rest of the Wizards just suck too much, IDK
Also worth pointing out the Wizards deserve the benefit of the doubt. They’ve been playing this season with integrity, competing hard in every game, and giving real minutes to guys like McCollum, Middleton, and Bagley to support their kids. They’re not tanking to keep their pick, they just kinda suck.
I’m not advocating a KAT for Davis trade because I share the concerns about his injury history, but imo a “healthy” Davis is a better player than KAT. He’s just so rarely healthy for an extended period of time and even older now. If we are going to consider trading Towns (and I think it’s worth considering both from a basketball and potentially coach fit perspective), we should probably find someone else to trade for.
Why?
If it’s clear beyond reasonable doubt that the primary reason he is getting surgery is to help his team protect its lottery pick, why is it crazy to punish that team?
Again, this is a league that willfully ended two teams’ seasons by suspending Patrick Ewing and Amar’e Stoudemire for harmlessly walking. How is it crazier than that?
They can be as draconian as they want to be whenever they want to be. Why draw the line here?
i pretty much agree with all the sentiments being expressed by TNFH:
-hard NO to a KAT for AD trade
-not holding my breath on the WAS pick conveying as a first, hoping for it to be two very valuable seconds.
Seems to be the case that barring a very unforeseen development, there isn’t a deal out there that will definitively improve the team prior to the trade deadline. So the hope is that a) they don’t do something that costs assets but doesn’t help, and might actually hurt, and b) they focus on the opportunities that may arise this coming off-season when they have our 2026 first, 2033 first, a couple of swaps, a couple of valuable seconds, and a couple of good young players (Kolek, Diawara) to offer in a package for a true difference-maker. There is also the possibility that Mitch moves on and we need to replace him with a draft pick…good rim-protecting big prospects are often available in the late first/early second (see: Mitchell Robinson)
I don’t think we realized how much of a square peg/round hole this situation was. Brown enjoyed using Sabonis as his passing cog in the halfcourt, and that worked really well. And Towns has some similarities — he had a nifty dime to Mitch last night —but he just has too many brain farts in that role.
He resorts to driving way too much and he hardly ever passes out of his drives. He’s better against bigger, slower guys, but gets stripped against centers like Bam and most PFs.
Hes the league’s “best shooting center” but can he move without the ball to get open shots? Not that I can see. And he’s taken exactly 11 corner threes this year. Most of his threes happen above the break.
He just has a very tricky skill set. His best skill is 3pt shooting, so if I were Brown, I would maximize that. Have him shoot from the corner instead of all those OG clanks. And the more threes he makes, the easier it will be for him to drive occasionally. But he’s just not clever enough to be our main distributor in the halfcourt. Maybe that’s what he wants to be and why he’s butting heads with Brown?
KAT is such a weird player. It’s a 3,000 mile away armchair assessment of someone I’ve never met while having no professional experience in psychological analysis, but something sure seems to be gnawing on him. Scoring 4 points on 1-4 while playing real minutes as the #2 scorer on a team (and having games like that regularly of late) is mind-boggling. Even Mitch scores better than that just by accident!
Maybe his fiancee has lupus, maybe he just doesn’t get his role (although what’s to get — score or pass, dude, and maybe play some defense now and again). It’s quite mysterious.
I may be the only Knicks fan on earth that thinks this, but I don’t think it’s KAT or Brown that’s the problem. I think it’s Brunson that’s the problem. KAT is a 7 foot C. He’s not ever going to be a diverse shot creator. He needs a PG (or playmaker) that runs the P&R well with him, kicks the ball out, that gets him the ball in the right spots at the right times etc… Brunson is a score first player and sometimes gets so EGO driven he hurts everyone else. He’s just so good at creating shots and scoring, especially at key moments, people are so busy celebrating his exploits they are not seeing the negative impact of what he’s doing.
I’m not sure I like the Brunson/Kolek combo, but at least when Kolek is on the court with Brunson he has the ball at times and we have a real passer/playmaker on the court. Over time, I think Towns will do better when he’s with Kolek than when he’s with Brunson. Kolek/Towns 2nd unit should be used for sure… at least until I’m proven wrong.
Meant to add that the only true center that drives more than KAT is Sengun, which is kind of insane. He may want to drive that much, but he really shouldn’t.
Strat, we like most teams aren’t running the pick and roll anymore, so it’s not like KAT is going to blossom on offense without Brunson. The problem is that KAT needs to play to his strengths.
edwards on the athletic re: “How should the Knicks go about improving their perimeter defense before the trade deadline?” mentions three players:
jose alvarado
keon ellis
ochai agbaji
if we are going to try to acquire one of them thats the same order of preference i happen to have for them
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6949338/2026/01/08/knicks-nba-trade-deadline-defense/?source=athletic_thebounce_newsletter&campaign=16326656&userId=10333007
If Brown’s schemes are going to depend in any significant way on KAT’s passing skills come playoff time, get ready for a first round exit following his immediate firing.
Alvarado sucks at everything except POA defense, Ellis would cost a 1rp we don’t have (plus Brown refused to give him minutes in Sacto), and Agbaji rightly wouldn’t get minutes on this team. NEXT
edgecombe missed dunk on bagley would have been worth it: https://x.com/chasedcsports/status/2009064798148022335?source=athletic_thebounce_newsletter&campaign=16326656&userId=10333007
wait they’re going to fire mike brown *before* their first-round playoff exit thats kind of harsh
Fwiw, KAT was a reasonable facsimile of Sabonis last night. He had 7 assists. He was hitting cutters, threw a lob to Mitch, and made the touchdown pass to OG on a very nice outlet pass.
Of course, we could always just trade for Sabonis… (We should not do this, but fear we will).
It won’t be “messing up” if they aren’t Harbaugh’s one or two choice.
The Giants are nowhere close to being a serious team. They have a shitty GM who is skating on thin ice. The have a very well payed “all-pro” defensive tackle who played like absolute dog poop all season. They don’t have a second DT, need TWO inside linebackers, a CB 1/2 and a safety on defense.
On offense their WR1 is still walking with a cane 10 weeks after ACL surgery and zero WR2. Their midget slot receiver is looking for a big payday after leading the league in 5 yard receptions with the smallest catch radius in the NFL. Their RT is looking for a big payday. They are short on depth virtually everywhere. And they just passed up the biggest chance to fill many of those holes by trading down multiple times out of the #1 pick which they had iced (or certainly #2). They are dumb as fuck.
I am a huge Giant fan, but if Harbaugh choses them , I’d drug test him imeaditally.
wow
F that snake Bill Simmons.
Elite championship contending teams don’t trade All-NBA level rotation players when they and/or the team is struggling.
I’m actually glad they’re going through this phase now. It will make them stronger when they figure things out and come out on the other side of next few player only meetings and coaches only meetings.
Did we really realistically expect that this roster with brand new coach will cake walk through the season, win 60+ games while resting players and then never need a game 7 to get to the finals?
Come on, maannn!
while its true that alvarado is not playing that great this year for the pellies i think that he would do better on our squad of course depending on who we gave up to get him and what players he would be actually on the floor with
The main weakness I see with our team is an inability to physically keep up for 48 minutes with the teams we are likely going to face in the playoffs. I don’t think Alvarado helps at all in that regard, if anything, he makes us smaller. Keon Ellis seems pretty redundant and Ochai kinda sucks, but whatever.
Our perimeter defense needs help, but we have also been vulnerable in the paint, at the rim, and in transition. We need to get bigger, faster, and longer. We need better backups for OG and Mikal.
“wait they’re going to fire mike brown *before* their first-round playoff exit thats kind of harsh”
Touche doogie, that was indeed poorly worded.
Agbaji kinda sucks, especially this year, and we don’t need another wing.
I like Alvarado, but don’t think we’re desperate for another PG anymore.
Looks like Ellis has struggled this year and he’s on an expiring. He might be a good but low,since the Kings aren’t going anywhere. Obviously, Brown has familiarity with him. But Ellis is another guard/small wing, he’s kinda redundant.
Also, happy birthday to Keon Ellis apparently. Turned 26 today
In theory, we could expand the rotation when Hart and Shamet get healthy.
But I think part of this is just mid seasons doldrums and will clear up, especially when they have more rest in the playoffs.
“Fwiw, KAT was a reasonable facsimile of Sabonis last night. He had 7 assists. He was hitting cutters, threw a lob to Mitch, and made the touchdown pass to OG on a very nice outlet pass.
Of course, we could always just trade for Sabonis… (We should not do this, but fear we will).”
The Clips are pretty old and slow, but sure, KAT played well. Still, that is a terrible role for him, and he will implode the team in the playoffs if that is how he is primarily used. That doesn’t mean that he should never be in that role, just that he is prone to bad/slow reads and strong, smart, well-coached teams will easily force him into bad decisions and blow up possessions.
Yeah, he’s definitely not Sabonis. I was trying to go more for the fact he looked to be working the system and wasn’t going maverick. So that’s a good sign.
I do think that Alan’s point about the rift between Brown and KAT is legitimate. So it’s a big concern
“In theory, we could expand the rotation when Hart and Shamet get healthy.”
Both of these guys are undersized for their roles.
“But I think part of this is just mid seasons doldrums and will clear up, especially when they have more rest in the playoffs.”
That very well may be the case. But the deadline is around the corner so Leon has to feel pretty strongly that a) the doldrums is the case, and b) we will match up well enough come playoff time.
Honestly, it comes down to the offseason acquisitions of Yabu and Clarkson. Yabu has been a complete bust, and Clarkson has played to his contract at best. Are those problems to be corrected prior to the deadline, or do you just hope that they (or their surrogates) get better in the remaining half-season?
I vote Bob for Giants beat reporter.
Edit: As long as he has Doogie as his proofreader…
Pretty crazy that we need a wing to improve our perimeter defense. There was something to E’s point about Mikal and OG being redundant after all, at least on defense.
Deuce solves a lot of our problems but we seem reluctant to elevate him over Josh. Can’t imagine any of these guys would get the nod over both of them.
Unless we’re taking Brunson or Clarkson out of the rotation, I don’t know that our perimeter defense is getting much better.
I do think sliding OG down to SF could be good, so that leaves us needing a PF, which I think is a consensus need anyway.
Ideally, Yabs would get his stuff together by the deadline because he theoretically has a lot of things we need there. But his defense isn’t exactly great either.
I do think part of the issue with KAT is Brunson. I think it’s mostly his style, but they don’t seem to mesh.
Look at this:
KAT + Brunson: 4.89 NRtg
KAT – Brunson: 9.11 NRtg (granted, this is mostly against backups)
KAT + Kolek: 16 NRtg (again, mostly against backups)
It’s not great that the team’s two best players are just of ok together in NRtg.
Last year was a similar thing, by the way. Over 1464 min (!), KAT and Brunson had a 4.42 NRtg. KAT minus Brunson had a 9 NRtg.
(Also, the KAT/no Brunson lineups have generally been pretty good defensively).
I don’t think OG and Mikal are redundant at all. My view is that we don’t really have defensive backups for them, i.e. guys that have the size and the tools on defense, but at the expense of some of Mikal’s and OG’s gifts on offense. Brown knows this, and that’s why he is throwing Diawara and McCullar out there. Neither Hart nor Shamet are capable of doing that, at least for OG. And the problem is only compounded by Clarkson and Yabu being zeroes on defense.
The Wiz are legitimately bad, they should have a top-4 pick, regardless of their record. That’s the point of the draft, it shouldn’t take losing on purpose to ensure you get the pick you are entitled to.
The more I think about it, the more I like the 3 year aggregate lottery, and of course getting rid of pick protections. I feel like this isn’t that hard of a fix.
Isn’t better to be a championship caliber team “if healthy” than to be a non-championship caliber team “if healthy”?
AD? We talking about AD?
Should be called AI
seems like harbaugh is too much to dream…probably end up with stefanski…
which would be much better than what we had…
I’m skeptical AD has the offensive juice left to help out Brunson enough
Seems like Jeremy Sochan might become available, would anyone be in favor of trading Yabu and Pacome for him? Seems like he could be a decent hold-the-fort bigger defensive wing…he’s a bit of a fake tough guy but maybe his energy and chippiness is some of what this team needs.
Definitely want more Kolek with KAT. Who knows what’s going on in his head but he could use a running mate whose game does some of the thinking for him. Brunson bends the defense and Kolek bends the court. He’s like a spacing guild navigator.
sochan is kind of another swiss army knife player kind of like hart and mccullar id like to see what mccullar can do but he is also injured a lot sochan might be able to help us and hed probably come cheap as this is by far his worst season and they are not using him anyway
Kolek reminds me a little of Sunshine in Remember the Titans…he might need to do some kung fu shit in the locker room to completely win the vets over.
Sochan has that “irritant” quality that Breen would bestow on certain players. I agree that he is similar in ways to Josh Hart, but clearly nowhere near as polished. But his speed and length are disruptive and he played some PG in prior years, can definitely pass the ball.
I don’t think he passes Leon’s stupid “character” smell test, but he can’t be any worse than Yabu and his contract expires this year as opposed to Yabu’s player option.
Did you see Kolek head butt Mikal hard, and twice, in the chest at the end of the game? Mikal seemed surprised (no shit), and sort of shoved him away, but was laughing.
Not kung fu, but sort of Reacher.
I’ve never been a huge fan of Sochan, and I’d bet some teams are going to pay something decent for him.
He definitely has the size for PF. McCullar can slide over there and bang a bit but is on the small side.
He’s a good passer for his size but he’s not remotely close to a PG, despite the Spurs attempts to make him one.
“I’ve never been a huge fan of Sochan, and I’d bet some teams are going to pay something decent for him.”
I don’t think that is necessarily the case. He’s been benched and just provoked an opposing player for no reason. I’d say his trade value has cratered, except as outgoing salary with assets attached to pick up a more useful piece.
“He definitely has the size for PF. McCullar can slide over there and bang a bit but is on the small side.”
Exactly. Same for Hart.
“He’s a good passer for his size but he’s not remotely close to a PG, despite the Spurs attempts to make him one.”
Of course he’s not. It was a dumb experiment. But a defensive big wing who can handle the ball, pass, and make a layup in traffic is a pretty good bench piece if you have the right players around him to kind of stabilize him and play to his strengths. I think the best “available” guy to compare him to is Ben Simmons, and at least Sochan is not terrified to shoot the ball. Both guys seem like head cases, but Sochan seems at least a little bit endearing.
And as an impending RFA, isn’t he somewhat of an offseason trade asset as salary filler in a sign-and-trade, or is that not allowable?
I’ve always felt Sochan was an emotional nitwit, if such a thing can exist.
On paper he’s good, in real life he might be a bit of a cancer.
They are slightly redundant because they are two excellent defensive wings who can’t solve our point of attack problem. This specific redundancy means we need a third excellent defensive wing, which creates a size and rebounding problem.
I’ve always been skeptical that Sochan’s defense is all that it’s cracked up to be. Very switchable, which makes him very useful, but I don’t think he’s an elite stopper.
He has the attitude and the Dennis Rodman dye jobs but not the skill set. I’m not sure he’s markedly better than Diawara.
As for Sochan’s passing, his AST:TO ratios are dreadful.
i guess id like to know more about why he fell out of favor in SA before proffering an opinion on him if indeed he is a locker room cancer he can sure as heck stay there in texas
Here’s an interesting recent piece on Sochan, which sort of screams caveat emptor.
But at our price point, maybe that’s all that might be out there…a guy who has some potential at age 22 but who has hit a wall in his development and has emotional issues to boot. Not to the point where I would use the term “cancer” to describe him, just flaky and mouthy.
embiid has averaged 28.4 points over his past five games im glad its still january nuggies continue to bring aaron gordon off the bench even tho hes healthy and jokic is out interesting move but seems to be working
thanks z that article on sochan was pretty much exactly what this discussion of him required
of course peyton watson is averaging 24.4 points per game in jokic’ absence too so thats a little unexpected
“They are slightly redundant because they are two excellent defensive wings who can’t solve our point of attack problem. This specific redundancy means we need a third excellent defensive wing, which creates a size and rebounding problem.”
I don’t think we have that much of a POA problem. We have a much more serious switchability problem and rim protection problem when both KAT and Brunson are on the floor, and even when only one of them is out there. With a third excellent defensive wing, those two are still going to be hunted, especially by smart coaches like Spo, Carlisle, and Mazzulla, and the defensive dominoes start to fall.
In that case does commercial insurance cover monitoring teams for tanking? 🙂
I think they should solve the POA issue with another guard, not another wing. I think it’s a POA issue against quicker ball handlers, not bigger and stronger ones (OG was excellent against Cade in the playoffs).
But I think their main defensive issue is not solvable. If the other team doesn’t have any bad offensive slot where Brunson can hide, he will be exposed. And even when he can be hidden, of course, some teams will exploit him relentlessly (Boston, for example).
For all the talk about KAT, this team’s biggest weakness (one could call it a thermal exhaust port) is Brunson’s defense.
Funny coincidence, Kevin Pelton just proposed a 3-way deal that involved both Yabu and Sochan but instead landed us Cam Whitmore, another disappointing wing on the outs:
You can do that with deuce (and I do think he needs to stay in the starting 5) but that just highlights their other redundancy: neither Mikal nor OG rebounds well.
They’re not totally redundant, but their weaknesses overlap
I do think Deuce is the main solution, and should be starting for that reason. Though he’s not as good against some of the quickest guards, and having someone to play that role in limited minutes would help. It would be nice to have someone that can also pressure the ball a little more.
I think the rebounding issue can be mitigated, especially with Hart’s return.
The unavoidable problem is that Brunson needs to play 35+ min a game, and there’s no way to completely avoid the defensive hole that creates.
I miss I-Hart.
I agree that OG and Mikal have some overlapping weaknesses, and that rebounding is one of them, although with OG it’s more of a “non-strength” than a weakness. But since the Knicks are one of the best rebounding teams in the NBA, it’s not much of an issue. At the end of the day, they are perfectly compatible in their respective roles. The issue is that their “redundency” is that they are both complementary players making star-ish salaries, and their respective strengths are probably not enough to cover up for the weaknesses of their actual stars (Brunson and KAT) against the very highest level of competition.
I am reminded of that scene the movie Titanic when Mr. Andrews said, “She can stay afloat with the first four compartments breached, but not five!”
We can stay afloat with one severely defensively-challenged star, but not two!
Starting Deuce does in fact help, but it just creates another problem: we become very, very small. It’s a different kind of problem than starting either Hart or Mitch, but it’s a problem just the same.
serious question: are we the only team whether contending or not who has this issue with their two best players being so bad at defense off the top of my head i couldnt think of any but its not like i ran through the entire league in my head either
I think the “too small with Deuce” problem is a theoretical problem but not a real one. For the last three seasons, Brunson-Deuce lineups have been consistently great.
Luka, Lebron and Reaves.
Also, if I were a betting man I’d put money on once Hart comes back and gets his legs under him, he’ll go back into the starting lineup.
good call on the lakers also add ayton to that and theyre even worse than us im trying to figure out how they are 23-12 and actually give up more points than they score (by only a little bit)
“Also, if I were a betting man I’d put money on once Hart comes back and gets his legs under him, he’ll go back into the starting lineup.”
probably but also maybe mike brown is watching to see how things go with deuce as a starter this isnt thibs for whom it would be as much of a foregone conclusion
I may be the only Knicks fan on earth that thinks this, but I don’t think it’s KAT or Brown that’s the problem. I think it’s Brunson that’s the problem. KAT is a 7 foot C. He’s not ever going to be a diverse shot creator. He needs a PG (or playmaker) that runs the P&R well with him, kicks the ball out, that gets him the ball in the right spots at the right times etc… Brunson is a score first player and sometimes gets so EGO driven he hurts everyone else. He’s just so good at creating shots and scoring, especially at key moments, people are so busy celebrating his exploits they are not seeing the negative impact of what he’s doing.
it’s not this. kat is an excellent offensive player, but he’s not the sort of player who desperately needs the right point guard. it’s why his output has barely budged whether he was playing with conley, rubio, butler, edwards, etc. the only thing that really matters for optimizing kat on offense is to get him against he opposing 5. this is just the nature of who he is. he doesn’t roll hard, he is very inconsistent in letting the pick and pop fly, he won’t make quick decisions in the short roll, he is reluctant to screen/rescreen the way great pnr duos must, he rarely 45 cuts on the weak side drive. he prefers to take a beat, and this limits the extent to which a ball handler and play organizer can affect his output. he has this in common with a lot of nonguard creators: there is not as much latent space available as you’d like.
jalen is far from elite as archetype point guarding, but the excellent 123.5 per 100 production of kat/jalen lineups since the trade is far less about jalen not maximizing kat as about the limits of how much a player like kat can be maximized at all. when you get to that altitude of production the margins you have to wade through to improve are thick as mud.
the “problem” with jalen and kat to the extent we want to call it that isn’t about jalen’s “EGO” nor even about jalen’s lack of being steve nash, but rather about a shitty defensive pairing and the fact that going from an incredible to generational offense is incredibly hard. i remember a few years ago someone (hubert?) was idly wondering here if ant had willed kat into a glow-up after a few kick ass playoff performances. kat’s been around a long time and he’s been a fantastic offensive player but i don’t think that kind of scenario was then or has ever been realistic, and at least offensively it has very little to do with jalen
Brunson always guards up the lineup because we never want him up against a PG. Sliding Deuce in at the 1 doesn’t give us a height disadvantage at the 1.
The problem is that Brunson is shorter than whoever he’s guarding, but that’s true whether it’s McBride or Hart.
And Deuce actually has a slightly longer wingspan than Hart (by half an inch, but still). The recently traded Corey Kispert is a legit 6’6″ without shoes and gives up nearly 2 inches in wingspan to Deuce. Deuce isn’t tall but he has solid length.
That really was the thing. Fucking Early Bird.
a few years ago we were all wishing for this exact situation…
now that it’s here, feels a little less good than I thought it would…
KAT’s paycheck just seems so out-sized to successful team building…
16 players making over 50 million a year…maybe more than 10 of those I’d prefer over KAT…
“KAT’s paycheck just seems so out-sized to successful team building…”
ding ding ding ding ding….
“Brunson always guards up the lineup because we never want him up against a PG. Sliding Deuce in at the 1 doesn’t give us a height disadvantage at the 1.
The problem is that Brunson is shorter than whoever he’s guarding, but that’s true whether it’s McBride or Hart.
And Deuce actually has a slightly longer wingspan than Hart (by half an inch, but still). The recently traded Corey Kispert is a legit 6’6″ without shoes and gives up nearly 2 inches in wingspan to Deuce. Deuce isn’t tall but he has solid length”
Of course this is true, but the problem is that Deuce is closer to being a wing than a point guard. He still has to contend with opposing big guards and wings who also have long arms.
rooting for an ol’ miss/hoosier championship, just wanna see a couple of first timers going at it…
part of the hope of this playoff expansion stuff…
didn’t realize it, but had tuned in to this broadcast with pat mcafee talking a bunch…damn, do speed much…yeah, no thanks…
Has anyone else been watching the Trae saga unfold with a sense of foreboding re: KAT?
Literally no one wanted Trae at that price. I don’t know if anyone’s going to want KAT at his, either.
I think KAT with 2 years left on his deal after this year will have more intrinsic value than Trae because legit stretch bigs who can do some stuff inside and on D are pretty rare and it’s easier to put a team around him to shore up his flanks than Trae, even at that price. But it’s not that far off.
In my opinion, the worst near-max or max contracts in the NBA other than Trae (worst ones first) are:
Embiid
PG13
LaMelo
LaVine
AD
KAT
a couple of vet expiring contracts, maybe a couple of first rounders…KAT could be yours…
gotta replace with something better though, or at least something that fits better…defensive center that jalen can lob to, zubac like, plus a power forward that can start…
does KAT have a point though that maybe we’d be better off with him being “more involved” in the scoring portion of our offense…
it is quite the conundrum, jalen needs the perfect backcourt compliment for their defense (maybe not named mikal)…and KAT needs the perfect front court compliment that can defend around the rim and also shoot threes (definitely not named mitch or yabu)…
You could get something for KAT now but Trae had value a year and a half ago, too. The sweet spot for trading him is this summer, when he has two years left. The extension is the inflection point. If you give him one, it’s moot. But if you don’t give him one and it’s a signal like it was with Trae, things deteriorate between team and player quickly.
That was me. And then you chimed in and told me what was really going on. And that’s why I’ve always been skeptical of the KAT trade.
There are some similarities, but to me the difference is that there are probably quite a few teams who wouldn’t want Trae on their roster at any price, or at least anything much above a MLE type deal, meaning a guy who you can remove from your rotation if needed without feeling that you are throwing away tons of cap space. Whereas, KAT, by virtue of being a stretch big and top-shelf rebounder, will always have a place in a rotation if he’s in the $20-35M salary range. He’s similar to Julius in that regard…a valuable guy in the right role for the right price, but not anywhere near a “max” player. Also similar to KP in that he retains at least some value due to his size.
I also think the league’s cracking down on flopping and allowing more “marginal” contact has fell more heavily on Trae than others.
Beyond Randle, I would probably put KAT in the group of starting bigs that includes Sabonis, Vucevic, Nurkic, Markaten…valuable offense-first guys you can definitely win with but who ultimately clog up your cap and keep you from getting the players you need around them to mask their flaws.
The killer with KAT’s deal is the $60M player option in 2027-28. He absolutely has to opt in to that, and seriously, who the fuck wants him on their books for that much?
That was my question, too. If no one in the NBA was willing to give up anything to get Trae at 46M, I don’t think anyone’s going to be lining up to give us assets for KAT at 61M. Minnesota probably already traded him to the only guy who would.
To be fair, KAT got that deal before the new apron rules, but yeah, we knew this was a possibility ever since we brought that idiot Gersson Rosas on board. But still, how did Brock Aller not lobby hard against the KAT trade? Fortunately, as we’ve seen, everything is fixable, and as long as Sacramento has a team, we’ll always have a chance to get better no matter what.
Meanwhile, for all our troubles, Cleveland at 21-18 must be in crisis mode. They were 34-5 at this point last year!
Cavs realized better to peak later rather than sooner
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