(Tuesday, July 09, 2019 5:25:33 PM)
4:25pm: According to Chris Haynes of Yahoo Sports, there’s still optimism that the Spurs and Morris will finalize their agreement. However, San Antonio has started reaching out to other free agent wings in case Morris decides to join the Knicks, sources tell Haynes. Chris Mannix of SI.com tweets that Morris has been frustrated because he […]
(Tuesday, July 09, 2019 4:15:39 PM)
The Knicks and free agent shooting guard Reggie Bullock are “re-working” the two-year, $21MM contract (second-year non-guaranteed) that they agreed upon last week, sources tell ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski (Twitter link). According to Wojnarowski, both sides are motivated to reach an agreement on a deal with new terms. However, agent David Bauman and the Knicks are […]
(Tuesday, July 09, 2019 4:23:03 PM)
Marcus Morris may abandon his agreement with the Spurs and instead sign with the Knicks, who are set to have additional cap space after restructuring their agreement with Reggie Bullock, sources told ESPN.
(Tuesday, July 09, 2019 11:43:34 PM)
The Knicks Summer League squad dropped Tuesday’s game against Toronto by a final score of 85-73.
(Tuesday, July 09, 2019 10:12:00 PM)
Former Knicks forward Amar’e Stoudemire is planning an NBA comeback, and he wants to make sure he can help both on and off the court.
(Tuesday, July 09, 2019 8:43:48 PM)
Changes are coming to the NBA’s Instant Replay process starting this season.
(Tuesday, July 09, 2019 5:09:37 PM)
The Knicks and Reggie Bullock’s agent, David Bauman, are working together to reach a new agreement after a medical issue arose that caused the team to question his ability to play a full season, a league source confirmed to SNY.
(Tuesday, July 09, 2019 12:47:53 PM)
Last year, the Knicks found an undrafted gem in Allonzo Trier. The Arizona guard fell through the Draft, and New York quickly scooped him up knowing he had a shot to make the team out of Summer League. This season, that undrafted story could have a new chapter with Oregon big man Kenny Wooten.
(Tuesday, July 09, 2019 10:52:45 PM)
The scrapbook isn’t empty, exactly. There are snapshots of prosperity sprinkled across the half-century and change in which the Nets have shared Greater New York with the Knicks. There have been stolen moments when the Nets have genuinely and honestly felt like the greatest basketball show in town. There was May 10, 1974, a Friday…
(Tuesday, July 09, 2019 8:41:20 PM)
LAS VEGAS — Knicks fan can breathe a little bit easier today. The Knicks new lottery pick, RJ Barrett, came on late to secure a double-double but their 2018 lottery pick Kevin Knox II had a brutal 3-of-15, four–turnover performance as the Knicks were blasted by the Raptors, 85-72, at Thomas & Mack Center on…
(Tuesday, July 09, 2019 4:37:22 PM)
LAS VEGAS — With Israel behind him, Amar’e Stoudemire is raring to get back in the NBA and feels his diet has given him a shot at age 36. Stoudemire worked out for 15 teams here in hopes of getting a training camp invite and be an influence on a team’s younger players. The Knicks,…
(Tuesday, July 09, 2019 1:12:52 PM)
LAS VEGAS — The Knicks have announced the signing of five players, but not shooting guard Reggie Bullock, whose signing is on hold. An NBA source indicated a red flag with his physical has delayed his signing. Bullock’s contract terms were being reworked as a result, according to sources. The report said there was concern…
(Tuesday, July 09, 2019 8:16:50 AM)
LAS VEGAS — When it was over Sunday night, Suns players basked in their overtime victory over the Knicks. They privately made comments about how much easier it was to guard the much-hyped 6-foot-7 sniper RJ Barrett than they thought, according to an NBA source. The Suns made Barrett look bad — just as the…
(Tuesday, July 09, 2019 1:42:14 PM)
NEW YORK, NY (July 9, 2019) – The New York Knicks announced today that the team has signed five players: Wayne E
(Tuesday, July 09, 2019 10:11:38 AM)
(Tuesday, July 09, 2019 1:42:14 PM)
NEW YORK, NY (July 9, 2019) – The New York Knicks announced today that the team has signed five players: Wayne E
(Tuesday, July 09, 2019 10:11:38 AM)
166 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2019.07.10)”
Everyone knew Shaun Livington was being cut, right? It’s just odd seeing the reactions today. I thought it was pretty much a given that he effectively “had” to be cut, right? And so everyone was working under the assumption that he was gone.
I’m impressed with Mitch and his stats but there’s no way a top 10 player is allowing his team to go 0:3 against summer league competition. Can anyone see peak Chandler, whom I believe was top 10, going 0:3 this past few days?
djphan is probably right about Mitch. He has a lot to learn before he can be a legit DPOY candidate.
That’s some…writing there by Berman.
fwiw Chandler was a noted underachiever his first few years
Yeah, Chandler came out way too young. It didn’t help that the Bulls insisted on trying to make him a power forward (what the what?).
So it’s becoming increasingly clear that RJ Barrett is way better as an initiator than as an off-ball wing and that he actually has a high skill set as an initiator. Not sure how that’s going to shake out, but I have full confidence that Fizdale is just the man to not be able to figure it out!
But he’ll really sell us on it working!
I have zero confidence in Fiz at this point.
Good thing we went and got a point guard that can’t shoot – that’s a great fit with RJ’s skillset!
This will have to be deja vu for DSJ who just got out of a situation where he was pushed off ball by a passing wing. I hope he really is learning to shoot.
Oh and Knox is still the worst player in the NBA.
Can we call Perry bad at his job yet?
You know what really bothers me about Summer League? Guys like Barrett get harshly criticized for slow starts, but when guys like Iggy or Wooten has a good showing- pundits gush over them with the “but it’s only Summer League” caveat. I get that there’s pressure being the #3 pick, but it’s still only Summer League for Barrett too. I’m just happy to see the kids play. I would like the expectation to be tempered until we see these kids go against the big boys. Alas, in a judgemental society, that is nearly impossible.
Great fit for either San Antonio or NY. I’d be all for it if we didn’t already have Portis. We still need a real backup 5 though.
They had the great superstar Eddy Curry at center, so obviously Tyson needed the adjust.
The craziest thing is that obviously Chandler was the better prospect and they even picked him higher (not only #2 versus #4, but they even traded their star player, Elton Brand, for the #2 pick to take Chandler!) and yet they still moved him for Curry. What were they thinking?
While the Bulls obviously made up for the Curry fuck-up by fleecing the Knicks and getting Joakim Noah out of the deal (and could have had LaMarcus Aldridge, as well, but they were dumb and traded him for Tyrus Thomas), they also compounded the Chandler mistake by signing old Ben Wallace and letting prime Chandler go.
NBA GMs are dumb now, but they were so much dumber 20 years ago.
Seems pretty natural that the #3 overall pick should have higher expectations for him.
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve been on board “The Summer League doesn’t matter either way, good or bad, except perhaps to show that a second rounder/undrafted player can hang with his peers” for years now, so I’m not writing Barrett off based on Summer League at all. At the same time, it seems quite natural that he’d be judged harsher since he was the #3 overall pick.
I quite liked what I saw from Barrett last night. Not a great showing, but the rebounding is for real and he was much more in control. He has a lot to work on (the shooting is atrocious) but the talent is there.
If only he could keep his weight down..
Man, imagine if Eddy Curry was still in his “prime” when Jackson was still in charge. What he wouldn’t do to have that big ass on the Knicks.
I don’t know, he wasn’t that good from the pinch post
Curry was an amazing athlete in high school but couldn’t control the eating. Today maybe he could’ve/would’ve gotten a personal chef/trainer right after the draft. He clearly didn’t have good support as a young man like Barrett does, for instance.
True. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a worse passer become a rotation player in the NBA than Curry. It’s like his brain just flipped off as soon as he got the ball.
More Summer League slop last night. Iggy is a talented basketball player with a strong handle and confident movement. RJ’s spin move and pass to Iggy under the basket at the end of last night’s game was a play that showed RJ’s potential. Knox shoots and scores (sometimes), but still looks awkward and uncoordinated. Knox’s awareness of teammates is undeveloped. Mitch needs to be paired with a power forward who can cling to the glass or pick-up the driver if Mitch’s block attempt falls short.
@14 exactly my point. Why can’t people just reserve their opinion til preseason starts when these kids are playing against mostly rotational talent?
@ Totes Don’t you know hot takes go bad if you let them sit out too long
Knox’s deathride-drives are bball nightmare material.
On the other hand Iggy and RJ show they have certified driver’s license !
#Don’t Brick, Just Drive#
“Deathride-drive” really is a fun description for Knox’s drives. It reminds me of Ron Baker’s drives, where he would get up in the air and then have this look on his face where he realized that he had no idea what to do once he got in the air. Going to a game at the Garden was the perfect way to realize how useless Ron Baker was, because if you just keep your eye on him, you could tell he just had no idea what to do on offense. Like, none. Since the camera follows the ball, you would miss out on TV how he was never doing anything.
Hot takes are a big part of what we do here.
This falls squarely on coaching. It’s the coaching staff’s duty to give Knox simple but strict tasks like “shoot only if open” “no long twos” “attack the rim only in transition or after closeouts”. If he does anything else and doesn’t get immediately benched, it’s Fizdale & Co.’s fault.
to me mitch has been the biggest disappointment of, yes, 3 very low information-content summer league games. he’s still awesome, but he really hasn’t show any signs of smarter, more controlled defense. he did try to take one charge yesterday that was called a block, but that is pretty much the only positional defending he’s done so far. everything else is level 10 flyswatter mode until he hits complete exhaustion. has mitch ever made a verticality attempt on D?
knox looks mostly the same to me; he’s a pretty high effort player with a nice looking shot and a tricky ability to use his length to get a step on people despite lacking explosiveness. but he still seems to really lack body control and functional strength. he’s still pretty young. he clearly hasn’t figured out how to guard the PNR; he looks like he needs a compass out there. i though rj had a pretty decent game yesterday, but only on offense. i still worry his game will look like evan turner’s. he is very, very strong for a teenager with some handle and good feet, so maybe that advantage really wells up in the next couple of years as he gets even stronger.
The problem with Knox is that his drives are pure shit !
He needs a Hakeem Slasher teacher to show him How to drive while having control of the ball & his body and awareness of the environment.
The problem with Knicks fans is that they’re so loyal and want their players to do well that sometimes they treat hard working but talentless players or kind & great character players just like moms treat their spoiled brats.
Ron Baker, Lance Thomas and many many others were great guys but not exactly meaningful nba players.
There was a post on Reddit the other day about a couple who finally had a kid after years of seeming infertility and have since treated him as sort of a golden child, to the point where they make sure that he wins any game that he plays, so when the poster (the brother-in-law to the couple)’s son beat the kid at foosball, the couple asked him to say that his son cheated.
That was sort of how Lance Thomas was treated here. “Just everyone pretend that he’s doing something out there!”
Personally, I think that some of the Knox criticism is over the top. I’m pretty confident that he’s going to be better this year, unless Fiz screws it up by coddling him. Since we went out and spent all of our cap space on competent players (well, the jury is out on Portis) then the young players should have to earn time on the floor and should be sent to the G-League if they need basic skill development. I still remember how stupid it was for the Knicks to hand the keys over to Ntilikina when he had absolutely no PG skills. Even if you believe that he had potential as a PG, you don’t demoralize him by having him get his shit handed to him night after night. You send him to the G-League and keep him there until he has some success. And if he doesn’t have success at the G-League level, you get rid of him asap, since he would never be an NBA player anyway if he can’t dominate down there. They should do the same thing with Knox, Iggy, and if necessary, RJ. That’s what the G-League is for.
At this point, Frank and DSJ are too far past the G-League being useful. If they don’t develop this year, you just let them become RFAs and let their rookie deals go. Who cares if they’ll be good in 3-4 years?
Veteran Leadership from a military-Office proven Veteran !
Has anyone looked in to whether having a veteran on a team actually affects the development of the young players? Would much rather have someone other than Vince Carter/ Lance in that last roster spot but I suppose the odds of anyone else in that spot actually contributing or developing into anything are quite low…
I do have a lot of respect for Vince and it would be fun to have him on the team in a head shaking Knicksy way that is almost more on the feel good side than the despicable side of the spectrum.
Vince confuses me. You’d think he would like to play for a good team in his final season, but he seems to be more interested in going somewhere where he might actually get real minutes. Seems kind of pointless to me. He might actually get to be the 15th guy on the Lakers or Clippers or Jazz or whatever.
The best leadership imo is ‘by example’.
Sheed Wallace, Jason Kidd and Kenyon Martin convinced me about Veteran Leadership during their Knicks tenure. They were getting in, playing hard and smart, providing and earned their playing time.
Lance leadership was a joke…
A ridiculous one…
Odds are DSJ is above replacement level this year and better next year. Frank has farther to climb but if you adjust for injury last year and age, he could become productive, but like you say Z he has to show something this year. If we can’t even get 2RP for Frank might as well see what he’s got. Knox is also young and just not having free reign like last year will be enough for improvement. Getting him to productive is a much bigger lift. That will be partially on him partially on Fiz.
Yeah, I mean, I don’t think Knox will always be quite this bad. But for a lottery pick, he’s about as bad as it gets. And I don’t see how any of us should feel good about that. It’s fucking painful to watch and a total fucking waste of the precious limited assets that teams are so righteously granted by the league.
The failure of the Knox pick (and perhaps the success of the Robinson pick) is precisely why this team should be stockpiling draft assets. The front office can’t be trusted to make a good decision with the few opportunities they have, so give them more opportunities to accidentally not fuck it up. Right? (My point is that the anger/frustration about Knox is more about how we have to pin our hopes on this scrub instead of having other guys to look forward to, and less about Knox’s own individual failure.)
If we had 3 first rounders in the next two drafts, I don’t think we’d be apoplectic about half of our rookie-contract players being among the worst NBA players of the modern era.
I’m guessing Vince is in it for the respect or maybe to get experience on the coaching side and front office connections or maybe just endear himself to a new market for better TV opportunities. It might be harder to get those things buried on the bench of a contender with stars chasing a championship.
Knox and Ntilikina have really never been very good. Not as prep players, not as college/Euro league players, not as NBA players. They’re both “if you squint your eyes you can kinda see an NBA player” kind of guys, and that’s why they were drafted.
Should stick to just drafting guys who are already good at basketball. RJ was at least a great prep player.
Almost any 20-year-old sophomore will be better than he was as a 19-year-old rookie. The question is how much better. Incremental improvement is not going to cut it for Knoxie-boy. If he’s 10% better this season, 10% better next season, and so on, he’ll be an NBA starter by age 40.
We need to see leaps-and-bounds improvement. Ideally that would mean a lot less “Imma run toward the hoop as fast as I can and fling the ball in its general direction and hope something good happens.”
I think the problem with “just keep Frank around and see what you have” is that this roster is really, really crowded now. If they’d used their cap space on just a couple of players they might have had a role for Frank, but with as many as 7 (!) new signings now along with a bunch of holdovers who are clearly ahead of him in the search for minutes, and RJ clearly headed for a significant rotation role as well, I don’t see any way Frank is getting real minutes on this team. Maybe there’s more value in trying to get him going in the G-league than there would be in trading him, I honestly don’t know. But I can’t see a very viable path to NBA minutes for him this year.
Haha, I see what you did there.
Jowles, I believe we actually do have 3 first rounders in the next 2 drafts. We have our own two plus the Dallas pick, right? That’s 3 first round picks in the next 2 drafts.
RJ looked exactly like the player I thought we were getting last night. He rebounds and makes plays at an above average level for a SG, but he’s going to have to become more efficient by improving his shot and shot selection over time. I’m still trying to evaluate his defense.
Knox is Knox. You can see why this management was attracted to him. He’s still ridiculously young and is probably going to get a lot better. Still, IMO we would have been way better off with Mikal Bridges. I’d way rather have a solid 3&D player with good shot selection that’s working on other areas of his offense than someone with more natural talent on offense that doesn’t defend well and does almost nothing at a high level yet. At best, Knox belongs on the bench getting 10-15 minutes at backup. On a good team, he’d be developing his game in practice trying to break into the rotation.
Robinson is Robinson. He’s an extremely gifted athlete that blocks shots, rebounds, and finishes well at the rim. However, he still no idea what he’s doing on either end. He’s still very raw.
Iggy has some skills. Anything we get is a plus.
Frank was a 3& D player in France (40%). The 3 part hasn’t been so good so far in the US. lol We’ll see.
I don’t understand people criticizing others about posting their SL observations on a basketball blog.
Based on past results, I think that going forward the Knicks should trade their first round picks for multiple 2nd rounders.
frank’s situation is the epitome of why ‘projects’ are terrible picks… you have way less time than you think to develop a player.. it’s basically the first two years to show nba viability or you’re either gonna be traded or scrounging for a roster spot on the waiver wire… and way more often than not that’s a good move…
that is why projects are terrible picks… it’s a euphemism for a bad player… and bad players almost always stay bad….
what frank is experiencing now… is very likely gonna be knox’s fate next year… and the only way knox avoids that is if he takes a quantum leap this season… and that quantum leap will still only be 10th man level of good…
Or trade the #3 for the #8, #17 and #35? If only that were possible…
Yeah, I’d like to see how many guys turned out to be above-average players but took longer than their rookie contract to get there. Even “projects” like Giannis have shown consistent, measurable and undeniable improvement year over year. And he was as raw as it gets coming into the league. (And a total outlier if there ever was one.)
Frank does NOT belong on this team with this management and this coaching staff.
He should ask for a trade.
He was drafted by people that believe in having multiple playmakers on the floor that move, share the ball, and defend their position. These guys want an athletic PG that can penetrate and run the whole offense and a SG that can light it up scoring. He has no role here. He should aspire to become a longer more versatile version of Patrick Beverley, George Hill, Danny Green etc.. over time.
There’s a perfect spot for him in Dallas and Cuban understands what he needs.
Doncic and KP are going to be their #1 and #2 scorers. Doncic will be the primary ball handler and playmaker. They need a guard that is primarily a defender that can be a secondary playmaker/ball handler and knock down 3s well enough. That’s why they went after Beverley and Green. They actually know what they are doing in Dallas. If he doesn’t end up in Dallas, San Antonio, or Golden State I’ll feel bad for him because he has to get away from these pinheads to have any shot at a good career.
Am i giving up on our young and raw players ?
Can they ever be legit nba players ?
It’s very possible with many hours of hard work.
Should they have to earn their minutes over our mediocre role players ?
That’s the right path to respect.
How possible is this current situation to become an nba contender on the next few years ?
Only God Knows.
Some pretty good players were drafted as projects though. Giannis for instance. Kawhi was something of a project coming out of college. His scoring numbers were weak in college.
I don’t know. Just glad RJ showed a little life.
The term “project” is thrown around pretty loosely. My sense is it’s used to describe two kinds of players:
1) guys who have shown legitimate, tangible skills but are rough around the edges for various reasons (offensively raw, too skinny, foul too much, etc.). I’d put guys like Giannis, KP, Mitch, Jaxson Hayes, Mo Bamba, Zhaire Smith, Matisse Thybulle, and some others in this category to various degrees.
2) guys who suck at everything so you have to come up with a patently ridiculous justification for drafting them (e.g. they’re a “project”). These are your Franks, Knoxes, Reddishes, Benders, Mudiays, etc.
You can draft guys in the former category if you trust your developmental staff to work with them and you don’t put all your eggs in their basket. The latter category is what keeps bad teams bad.
I don’t agree about Knox having to make a quantum leap to be playable. He has to be more efficient and rebound and defend better, just like nearly all 19yo rookies. Mixed in with the awkward flailing drives (and he gets fouled on a lot of those) are some quite polished moves. That floater that nobody here likes is an important shot type for a scoring wing. I just don’t see the completely useless player that others are seeing.
Well they were free to give us the second round pick we were requesting for him but they preferred Isaiah Roby. So, is the new slant that even the smart teams on which Frank would thrive don’t even know how badly they need him?
Knox is only as good as his shot, and even then he’s not very good.
I agree Mitch needs more work on defense. I think Taj may be a good mentor. He definitely doesn’t get to his level from size/shotblocking.
RJ was more the player I expected. Poor efficiency, but adds other stuff. And anytime someone struggles as bad as he did the 1st two games, I think criticism is fair. And as I’ve pointed out before, most detractors of RJ here point to his Duke mediocrity. SL just confirms what we already suspected.
Frank shot very well in the U18 tournament. He played pg. I think he benefited from being ~5 inches taller than everyone guarding him. I’m still surprised he’s this bad at shooting and I was against drafting him.
Anyway that’s my smorgasbord of Knicks thoughts this morning.
Kawhi is the perfect example. He was drafted based on his athletic ability and measurables (especially the giant hands) and had a long way to go to be a star player. He had the work ethic, intelligence and ability to keep adding new skills – it almost looks like he’s still getting better game by game.
For every Kawhi there are a 1000 Darius Miles(es?).
OG Anunoby is a current example – will he end up like Kawhi or Miles?
The reason he was drafted with a lottery pick was because the Derrick Rose and Carmelo Anthony lead super team these guys put together predictably sucked ass.
I am becoming more and more convinced that our front office doesn’t have a clue about what they are doing. Payton and Randle make sense and are reasonable signings but aside from lighting a ton of Dolan’s money on fire the rest of it makes no sense whatsoever to me. How many average/past their prime power forwards does one team need to sign for 10-15 mill per year? It’s like they spun a wheel with the names of free agents on it and wherever it stopped that’s who they offered 15 million per year to.
Constructing a team where the parts actually fit is a concept they clearly don’t understand. The roster is a mish mash of ill fitting parts. Too many PF’s not enough shooting.
Having cap space and using it to absorb bad contracts for assets is a concept they don’t even consider apparently.
The Knicks are a laughingstock for Good Reasons. We fans are gluttons for punishment.
My feeling about all very young players drafted is to be patient; commit to at least a full 3 year look.
Now, if the team determines very early on (at end of first year?) that the player may not work out, then by all means try to trade for a first round pick, maybe a couple of seconds. If you can’t get that, then why not just stay the course while the kid is still pretty young? Supposedly the Knicks could not get a single second rounder for Frank, and I’d imagine they probably couldn’t get that for DSJ, either, at this time, based on the stunt he pulled in Dallas last year.
Frank and DSJ would combine for about $12m if both are picked up for 2020-21, IIRC. If Frank shows anything at all in the upcoming FIBA, then by all means pick his (and DSJ’s) options up. Show some confidence in them. That’s less than they are going to pay for one year of Bobby Portis. I know the odds are low for either of those guys making a leap this year, but maybe one or the other does?
The team does have a lot of cap flexibility next offseason, and they can probably still have tons of cap space available in 2021, the next time a nice crop of FAs might be available.
Knox without a better handling and decent drive won’t go far …
Frank is pretty expensive for a flyer. I think plenty of teams would be interested in developing him at a lower price point.
Kawhi put up fantastic numbers in college, he just couldn’t shoot. He was not a project in any sense of the word. Even if he never learned to score efficiently he had tremendous value.
I await THCJ post on this same matter.
The actual reports were that several teams were discussing Frank for a late 1st rounder or early 2nd rounder, but they didn’t want to make a trade because it would fill cap space before they were sure what their free agency opportunities were. Also, because NY gave him such inconsistent minutes at different positions when he was healthy they weren’t sure what they were getting.
Everyone will get another look in France to see where he is now when healthy and then hopefully he’ll be out of NY and on a team where he at least has a shot to develop. I already know he has no future with these dumbbells. They should let him go after France. Then we can stop talking about him unless he locks down one of our players and KP goes off for 35.
Here are Kawhi’s supposedly impressive college stats.
Portis played mostly played center for the Wizards last year. BRef has him playing C 77% of the time. He split time at C and PF the years before that. He’s 6’11” and will play C next to Taj or Morris off the bench.
We literally just went out and signed, Portis, Ellington, and Bullock who all shoot.
We drafted Iggy who can shoot.
We signed Randle who shot okay last year.
We have Knox, Dotson, and Trier who can all shoot.
Yeah, it does appear that they tried to improve shooting/scoring with 4 of the signings and playmaking with 1 of them.
They clearly want to win a lot more games this year (I’m not saying they will, just that they are trying to). I still hope they commit to playing all the kids, but we’ll see.
If they really want to win, they should probably reduce the minutes of everyone they drafted, play the veterans they bribed to be here by overpaying them, and get a new coach.
@67 We’ll see how well they all shoot and how good the spacing is for Mitch and Barrett when the games actually count, not convinced.
@64 hahah, I actually started writing this and then had to, you know, do my day job
Kawhi may have been a project, and one of the funniest mischaracterizations of a player that I can recall (“NBA Comparison: Luc Richard Mbah a Moute/ Gerald Wallace”), but he had an elite statistical profile and was a productive NBA player from his first season — his worst season BPM is 3.9 and WS48, .166 (sophomore season).
So maybe he was labeled a project, but he’s always been a very good basketball player.
Giannis had a poor rookie season, but not in the true dregs of the league. And since there, he has shown near-consistent improvement in the following five seasons.
@70 Yep. The spacing will be critical for BOTH Mitch and Barrett. That’s why it’s so critical that Randle’s shooting from last year not be a fluke.
Berman is a LOT better as a basketball analyst on Podcasts than you can tell from his articles.
Frank is 6’10” and a 100% 3-point shooter now. So he should have lots of trade value.
All I remember about Kawhi Leonard as a prospect was that all of the smart people on this blog knew he was a great prospect. That much I know for sure.
I’ve been really wondering how good this Knick’s team will be this season. I made a rough estimate as follows. The Knicks were 26th in defensive rating and 30th in offensive rating last season. I don’t see their defense will be any better, but they did get better shooting, as noted above. So I expect they will stay twenty sixth in defense next year, which corresponds to a defensive rating of 114.4. For offense, their rating was 105.1. If they move up to 20th in offense, their offensive rating would improve to about 110.
Last year Atlanta has an offensive rating of 108.7 and a defensive rating of 114.4. Washington has an offensive rating of 111.7 and a defensive rating of 114.6. They won 29 and 32 games respectively. So this methodology suggest the Knicks will win about 30 games.
I think their defense can be better because hopefully Mitch will get starter’s minutes from the get go instead of Kanter being the starter for half of the season.
Last year’s Knicks were last in the NBA in eFG% by a mile, they were a whopping 13 points worse than the 29th worst team. So you could add 15 points to their eFG%, for example, and they’d still be the dregs of the league.
There are going to be a LOT of missed shots from Knox and Barrett. Randle will help, he gets lots of efficient buckets, but this still looks like a team that’s gonna struggle with eFG%.
Kawhi only committed to two years with the Clippers, player option for year 3. Likely back on the market in 2021.
I don’t see where their shooting got all that much better. They already had Trier at SG and added a few other guards that can shoot, but they can’t all play at the same time.
Randle is a question mark. He’ll be efficient inside like Kanter (who is gone), but we don’t know what we’ll get outside.
They added Portis (who I said from the start was added because he’s more of a stretch 4/5 than Randle), but they don’t have Kornet who was theoretically the same kind of stretch 4/5.
I think spacing is going to be a problem unless Randle really steps up or they get sharp improvement from someone else. The team construction is poor and I didn’t even start whining about passing yet. They have a bunch of black hole iso scorers on the team and very few passers and play makers. Hopefully when Barrett plays he’s as concerned about moving the ball as he is at launching bricks from outside.
Also last year’s Knicks were fairly decent in the other three of the Four Factors, they were above average in FT/FGA and average-ish in TOV% and ORB%. Their eFG% was just so horrible it dragged the whole team to 30th in offensive rating.
The team leaders next year in FGA are probably going to be Randle, Knox, and Barrett. After that, probably… Portis? He’s about an average eFG% guy, doesn’t move the needle a ton. DSJ/Payton? Not a lot of hope there. Ellington/Bullock? Probably won’t get a ton of shot attempts. Mitch is good for a high eFG% but on low volume.
2 years is enough time to let these young guys simmer… and we could be looking at 2 out of the 4 candidates… mitch.. randle.. dsj and rj…. making that leap to make this a pretty attractive destination for kawhi…. plus likely three more stabs at the lottery by then…
dreaming and missing out on top free agents is part of what we do here… but even though it’s still a longshot… that looks a lot more believable a scenario than we’ve had so far….
I infer from the comments that you think
30 games is optimistic unless our defense improves significantly.
Oh boy, Kawhi, PG 13 and Giannis all free agents in 2021. Looks like we’re gonna have to go through 2019 all over again (unless the basketball gods intervene and Dolan drops dead while singing “I Should Have Known”)
WOW. Clippers’ PG trade is playing with fiiiiiiiiire…
And as d-mar said, this means the Knicks are going to commit to maxing cap space just to sign eight veteran, middling PFs all over again.
Kawhi has great college numbers INSANE rebounds for a SF. His FG% wasn’t great but his TS% wasn’t even bad largely because he got to the line at a good clip. Looking at his college numbers and not seeing an NBA player is crazy to me. Superstar took development but he would have been a solid player anywhere.
I wouldn’t bet much money on this (since the Knicks’ are run by irrational, incompetent boobs), but don’t be surprised when Portis (or Randle) starts at C on opening night.
Someone needs to tell these guys that Mitch can foul out of every game and it won’t hurt anything at all. It’s not like getting a red card or technical fouls, guys. Let him foul out until he learns to stop fouling out.
It blows my mind when guys get pulled with 4 fouls and, like, 16 minutes to go. I’m always like, hey, you could get 16 minutes out of him, or you could artificially limit him to the last 8 minutes of the game, which he might foul out during anyway. I get it if you think that they need a less foul-prone matchup, but that does not seem to regularly be the case.
I think it’s important to keep in mind that even Randle’s (much improved) 3-ball last year was still only on 3 attempts per 36. When you’re talking about effects on spacing attempts are often overlooked but are maybe as important as percentage. You can shoot the 3 well, but if you’re not confident gunning from there teams won’t stick close to you. That’s particularly true for bigs. As I posted previously Randle played primarily C last year. In order for the spacing to be something other than a mess with him playing a lot of PF he’s going to not only need to keep making them but also increse his rate of attempts quite a bit I think. For what it’s worth, Portis took about 5 per 36.
Bobby Portis makes a lot of money and he gets some pointzz so I am expecting him to start and get 25+ MPG.
He’s not a very good player. He’s a big reason why this will be a 25 win type team.
The 2020 draft class is pretty interesting, so I’m cool with it.
Kawhi shot .250 for his career from the college 3-point line. He was an excellent rebounder and defender, with a long wingspan. That’s why the Spurs traded for him. The offensive superstardom is a complete shock, and if you put truth serum into Pop’s scotch and soda, he’d tell you exactly the same thing. He’d probably say so even without the serum.
If anyone had projected him to be KAWHI!!!, he never would have gone 15. He wasn’t really even an “upside” play to any material degree. He was a two-year mid-major guy with a meh offensive portfolio.
It really depends on the minutes distribution. As I said a few days back, simply removing Knox and Ntilikina from the roster and replacing them with below-average veterans will make an enormous difference on their win expectancy.
The offense is going to be a hell of a lot better. Not good, but better.
Ntilikina and Knox combined for a .462 TS% on an incredible 1196 FGA and 256 FTA. If they had shot at the same volume as well as the 29th-ranked TS% team offense (CLE) at .540, they would have added 205 points to the Knicks’ average.
That would increase their pythag win percentage from 19% to 30%. Yes, that’s only 5 wins, but consider that Knox and Ntilikina only played 15.4% of total minutes. FIFTEEN PERCENT.
Yes, improving the shooting efficiency of the Knicks’ two worst players to the 29th-ranked team average would improve the team’s pythag by five fucking wins. That is how bad those two were. And so the team’s success will largely hinge on how well they limit the negative contributions by some of the worst rotation players in my lifetime.
kawhi was a good player in college… and he was good at a young age… he came into the draft with massive buzz with his crazy measurables…. his handsize and massive wingspan….
so he was productive… and checked all the upside boxes… and gets picked in the middle of the first round… go figure…. everyone was really shocked he dropped that far… this was like ron artest and paul pierce dropping…. he was projected i think somewhere between 4 and no later than 8…. to put it in perspective this would be like if culver dropped out of the lottery…. i think i had kawhi in the top 5 myself also…
his main ‘problem’ was that he played mostly pf… and he played like a big in college… there was very little in the way of shooting or ball handling ability that you see today so he came a very very long way in that regard…. but still at the very least he should have been picked in the lottery on a shawn marion basis alone… someone who succeeded playing SF like a PF…. and he was really good at the time too so there was a model for that kind of player succeeding….
i don’t think anybody in their wildest dreams thought he would be this good….
I do agree that no one saw him as a future Finals MVP. A lot of people on this board wanted him because he did a lot of important things well — no one saw the Jordan-like prowess as a shot creator. I probably would have taken Faried over him if he had been there at #17.
I think that might have been a joke but sort of curious if we thought anything about Kawhi during the draft. Too lazy to go look though….
So far RJ’s outside shooting has been horrible in SL. I was happy to see him make strong drives to the basket and pass more. He should continue to do this until he improves or get more confident in his outside shot. Looks like he can be a good rebounder for a guard.
Knox was chucking every time he got the ball. Maybe it was because it was his last SL game but would like to see him pass more.
See the link above. There isn’t a whole lot of chatter about Kawhi. I didn’t get a chance to sift through May and April but I have to assume there were a lot of posts about draft prospects.
Z-man was real high on Shumpert. latke (does he go by a different name now?) was the real loser in that thread. Smart poster, bad take.
Might have been better to have given Tyson Chandler the 1 year room exception (or less) to mentor Mitch than paying Taj 10m. Making sure Mitch is future DPOY should be a high priority. Maybe Taj helps in that regard but he’s not a natural center and Tyson’s game like DAJ’s is closer to Mitch’s. DAJ helped Mitch on defensive rebounding; he could have handed the baton to Tyson to teach Mitch about positioning.
But that never was in the cards because my prediction that generating wins will be main priority for the front office is playing out. Signing Morris will be yet another indicator. Another season with the worst record in the league and Dolan might fire the whole lot of them especially if Nets are thriving.
yeah but I liked Kawhi too. Nearly every draft board had him gone by the time we picked. That was a weird draft.
OMG this is funny and true… who gives a fiddler’s patootie if he fouls out 10 straight games…. is there a cumulative penalty I;m aware of?
If you look at eFG% rankings, it almost mimics the standings. If the FO focuses on improving that stat alone, the Knicks will start moving forward as a team. KK and RJ, are you paying attention?
Can two or three of these young fellas please develop?
Just took the time machine back, most people wanted Chris Singleton except THCJ who also hated Shump and was thirsty for Faried. Zman seemed like the main pro Shump fan even wanted him over Kawhi (who wasn’t available obv). Shump is probably a good example of someone you squint at and see a complete player but the development never came together…
I hope by the time 2021 rolls around we have a couple of great young pieces to work around. Robinson is an elite two-way producer already, RJ Barrett has a shot to be really special as a playmaking wing, Dennis Smith Jr is probably a coin-flip this season, and maybe Kevin Knox can be a Danilo Gallinari redux if he gets his shit together. I like Brazdekis, Trier, Dotson, and I’m keeping the light on for Ntilikina, but we really just need to put together some good young guys. I could give a damn about free agency anymore.
Every draft ever:
“With the _____ pick in the _____ NBA draft, the New York Knicks select _________”
Most KB posters: “WHAT THE FUCK THAT GUY SUCKS”
A handful of KB posters: “Well, let’s see how he plays once the season starts, maybe he’ll develop his outside shot”
(player turns out to suck)
Let’s all resolve to call our #3 pick R Barrett until he proves he’s got a J.
As things turned out, I was certainly wrong to think that Shump would fix his jumper and totally overrated him in several areas. That said, he became a legit NBA rotation player (as opposed to Singleton…yuck!) and a part-time starter on a championship team so at #17 he wasn’t as terrible of a pick as THCJ feared. As to Faried, he was all that for a couple of years and kind of petered out. Ironically, there were better players than him that we passed over, including Tobias Harris and Jimmy Butler (and Bojan Bogdanovi? , Chandler Parsons and Isaiah Thomas, but no one saw those guys coming.)
Yeah, jon abbey wanted Josh Selby more than anything. Picking Shumpert was… fine. He’s not been a good player, but he has a ring and actually played for it.
If I remember correctly I wanted Singleton, and that was one of my early lessons in preferring a defense-oriented player who can’t score. Those players often turn out to be not even that great on defense, and almost never develop into good offensive players. I’m very wary of those players now.
Stanley Johnson was the one that cemented it for me. Those defensive-oriented guys always seem tantalizing but in this era of the NBA you’re better off drafting the guy who shows shooting/scoring/ball skills.
Also, it’s not like the All-Defensive teams are full of scrubs who can’t play O. Marcus Smart is the only dud among the 10 players chosen to this year’s teams.
i remember exactly where i was during that draft. i was on a third date at one of those movie-in-a-park things & i was following the draft on my phone. but i can’t for the life of me remember what i was rooting for; kind of crazy because i remember what i was thinking for much older drafts.
I was at the Shump draft….the highlight was Jan Vesley’s girlfriend….I think I wanted Jimmer and then Faried after he was taken….everybody else I liked was gone
Crazy, I just googled Vesely (not for his perfect, girl-next-door ex, I promise) and he won Euroleague MVP last year!
lol I remember when Jan Vesely was asked on draft night about people calling him the Czech Blake Griffin and he replied, “I think Blake Griffin is the American Jan Vesely.”
it wasn’t in a cocky way, he was playing along humorously. Good times
pelicans starting look like they had quite a draft
Just turned it on. Are any of these guys expected to make the team this year?
i think they have enough of a roster crunch that i think it’s not clear but alexander-walker doesn’t seem the sort to be g league-ing it for long
and hayes and mitch apparently eat the same alex p keaton amphetamines for breakfast
I really hope none of you watch the ESPYs
Hayes had a really nice dunk the other day. He’s bouncy.
Not sure if I can stomach another Summer League game, but this will be the last Knicks action until October.
I guess there’s always 3 1/2 hour baseball games. Zzzzzz……
Fuck ESPN. stfu and show the game assholes
Is Vogel really going to give us coaching platitudes for the entire first quarter? SHOW THE FUCKING GAME
Why does ESPN feel the need to split screen everything.
They must’ve spent almost 2 minutes it seemed on a split screen of Jason Kidd just sitting there.
rj seems to front rim every jumper….
who do they think is watching this shit except the craziest fanatics who don’t GAF what frank vogel learned at PR school
That Pat Riley anecdote is batshit insane lmao
tell the Riley thing, I turned it off for a minute
Psych. Apparently it’s Wear Bear’s twin.
I only started listening like halfway through, but from what I can tell: Riley shows up to a practice before a Heat game, and gives a motivational speech to his players. He says, “the urgency you need to play with is the urgency of your next breath”. He then dunks his head into a bucket of water and holds it under for like 90 seconds in front of the team. He comes up gasping and says “my breath was urgent, I needed it, that’s the urgency you all need to play with.”
Riley is a fucking lunatic.
RJ isn’t shooting well, but I really like his passing
gut laughter over here
He played in Australia last season. Not terrible, but his scouting report would probably contain the word “underwhelming” a fair bit.
The announcer calling the Knicks/Lakers game on MSG just said that if Mitchell Robinson is going to be a starter, that he’ll need a more diverse offensive game than diving, catching, and dunking. I get that teams will take the dive away in the conference semis and forward, but he can’t be an NBA starter?!
I believe that Riley story happened when he was coaching the Heat not the Knicks.
that’s a famous riley story… i think tim hardaway (sr.) was telling it awhile back and remember shaq said riley did it again during his time with the heat also…
Mitch can finger roll!!
Wow. RJ just spun out of the post into a two handed off two feet. That takes some serious athleticism, and glimpses like that from a 19 year old? Just be patient with the kid.
RJ has 1 assist but 4-5 nice passes
mitchell robinson looks like david robinson out there….
Interesting fast break from Knox
Knox is horrible lmao
That old draft thread… If I were latke, I would have changed my handle too. Ouch.
I thought I was on it, rooting for Fareid, but I forgot that was on my sabbatical from the team after the Melo trade.
I honestly think Iggy Brazdekis has a chance to be a better basketball player than Kevin Knox. He was a better player for a better team, came out as a freshman, is already a reliable 3PT shooter, and has a better handle.
Did anybody else just see Mitchell Robinson pull off a step back dribble?
Fouling Knox is incredibly dumb, it’s a total bailout
Mitch are Perkins’ lunch so bad that Perkins got ejected lmao
You gonna tear the headband off Mitch, you best not miss
At least he’ll have a cool story to tell his kids about multi-time DPOY Mitchell Robinson
OI was going to kill the Knicks last week for making that trade which landed them Brazdekis. The kid the Knicks took with the #55 pick they traded to SAC, Karl Guy, is a 3pt sharpshooter that lit it up in summer league. But let’s face it, I was smart to wait and see Iggy.
Obviously the Knicks are having a much better game today. Too bad that the next time they face them it’ll be LeBron, AD and company.
It’s good to see improvement in RJ and KK. The team’s future rests with them.
Brazdeikis is already kind of a better version of Knox, right? Not much of a box score stuffer, but he sure seems to be able to get buckets.
Why the fuck are we still playing these guys? It’s summer league, hit the third row on the bench?
I love Mitch. Not that he is in summer league. But the three point blocks that lead to dunks, definitely.
Mitch needs to stop blocking shots, intimidating everyone inside, rebounding and dunking. He needs a more well rounded game.
Idk, Iggy seems to have a good sense of when to pass/quick decision making in general. He’s not a good passer per se, But he keeps his head up and only seems to go in when he feels he has the advantage. And he gets a block and a steal a game usually. Not super impactful on defense but not that bad either. He’s pleasantly surprised me.
Knox with 25 pts on 12 FGA plus 7 rebs and 3 asts. Would be nice to see that in a real game next year.
Iggy is not Ron Baker. He’s the real deal.
Smart had a .568 TS% this year and led the league in steal%. He’s a very valuable player.
so the book is closed on rj for the summer league… here are his per 36 avg’s…
36% 2p fg
aside from the 2p fg% it’s a very good line… and for comparisons sake here’s the numbers for another guy in summer league not that long ago…
37% 2p fg
that guy is ben simmons…. i’m not saying he’s gonna be like ben simmons… but the shooting like i’ve said is not that big a deal…. what’s more important.. not that any of this stuff is all that important… are the other basic things… and if you can do the basic things of filling up the box score then you can’t be all that bad….
and i think the key numbers to watch for on rj are gonna be 1) 2p fg% which is always a key filter 2)stls and blks .. stls are a bit low and hopefully gets over 1.0 during the season and 3)3pa … he’s still getting used to the nba line and he’s very consistently short on almost all his misses there…. and i just hope he restricts himself to just catch and shoot opportunities… those looks are way better for him than the others….
if we get the version of rj that we got in the last couple of games that guy is a pretty good and pretty valuable player… but the first two… well hopefully we can all just laugh about it in a couple of years….
I don’t disagree, but I largely meant on offense. The TS% has come a long way from his normal high 400s mark, but he’s still a low-usage guy. I would be happy to have him on my team if it were already a contender.
That 2013 draft thread is awesome. Best line on it:
Welcome to New York, where the more things change, the less things change…
(Also, Latke! You guaranteed it, wtf! (Latke was typically a good poster, iirc. In fact, I think that may have been Max Cohen’s handle before he started contributing here. He was off his game that day, though, haha!)
I was out and missed the game, but it seems like RJ and Mitch and Knox II all played well. But the Lakers summer league team is garbage, so… ?
sorry to see summer league end…I kind of wish they’d do more tournament style events during the summer for the young players…
seems like it would benefit most concerned to get time on the court and tv…
shit, most of us crazy people tune in to the stuff….
ditto to all the comments reference RJ’s strengths, weaknesses (so slooooooooooow) and areas he needs to work hard on non stop: shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot…
but, for a 19 year old – dude is seriously buffed…and, i’m a fan of his personality so far…lord knows it’ll get tested working for uncle jimmy d…
like iggy (did he have some other nickname in college?) – a lot…who knows for sure, but, seems like he might be able to find a spot out on the floor…15 guys on the roster though – who really knows what fiz will do…
i’m.so glad mitch is ours…I don’t know, honestly I’m not so hopeful to see a big improvement this year from either frank or knox…hoping to see progress from DSJ and trier…
no doubt there are going to be some head scratching rotations once the season begins…
like everyone – I can see mitch and RJ in the starting 5, but, if kevin is out there to start the year – something is very wrong…