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Friday, August 22, 2014

D-Day 2011: Who will the Knicks choose?

Speculate and follow the draft here.

294 comments on “D-Day 2011: Who will the Knicks choose?

  1. John Kenney Post author

    I’ll start off with this question: If Kemba is available via the Bucks #10 pick for Toney Douglas and the 17, would you take that deal?

  2. Frank

    @2 – depends on whether we can get another late pick to make up for the fact that Kemba for TD+17 is essentially a 1 for 2 trade. If we feel pretty good about getting a late 1st or early 2nd, and then use it to draft Shumpert (if he falls) or someone like Malcolm Lee, I would do that trade.

  3. Matt Smith

    Why do we want Kemba? He’s a slasher who’s unproven against elite, taller interior defense in the NBA. His jumper isn’t consistent enough to facilitate our already two excellent driving scorers, he’s not a pass-first PG, and he’s too small to be a decent defender. An upgrade over TD sure, but I’d want something better.

  4. Matt Smith

    Also, part of my hesitation to draft a C over a PG might come from keeping up the faint chance that we land CP3 despite him taking less money and a new CBA. Probably should get over that hope soon.

  5. Garson

    I dont get the constant negative talk around douglass.

    When Billups went down during the season the kid lit is up and ran the offense decently. Off the bench, his effort is uncanny, hes a above avg shooter and exluding his inablity to stop rondo (who stops rondo ever btw?) was a excellent defender and this was with a major injury to his shoulder!

    His major knock is his inability to run the point, but with billups mentoring him this offseason, he can only get better.

    We are also not counting on him to be the future starting pg of our team, for his role of the bench, i belive hes perfect

    Why would we trade him to get a similer player in Jimmer or Walker?? We clearly need to fill other positions , mainly a rebounder and shot blocker. I just dont get it.

  6. ess-dog

    I think I actually like Kemba better than Jimmer despite the fact that he’s a worse three point shooter. He’s a better defender and slasher and at least as good a distributor. I can’t imagine him falling to 17 and Phoenix should take him at 13 so they can trade Nash.

    This will be a very weird draft.

    I think the young Turk will go 2nd and mess everything up.

    After everything, I still like Faried. His motor is just insane. Even if he doesn’t have a proper position on the floor, I think the D’Antonis can teach him to shoot and he will beef up over time. If we could buy #20 and take him there I’d be very happy.

  7. adrenaline98

    @7, I agree about his bench ability, but Douglas has one of the worst court visions I’ve ever seen play for the Knicks. He’s not looking to assist at all, he’s looking to move the ball. He can throw a direct pass for you, but he can’t help you create that shot.

    He misses open people on the break very regularly.

    I’d love to see the Knicks pick up someone like Biyombo for defense/rebounding/size, which obviously fills a need.

    I wouldn’t mind seeing a Shumpert, a big guard known for his defensive presence.

    I also wouldn’t mind Morris, a big guard who clearly looks to distribute rather than find his own shot. Knock on him is his own shot.

    There’s too many others like Burks, Singleton, *insert defensive player here* that we can discuss as well. WHATEVER the case is, if Kemba/Jimmer fall, PLEASE we need a defensive presence more than those two.

  8. adrenaline98

    Actually, rather than looking at the players, lets look at the needs:
    Ball Distribution
    Rebounding
    Interior defensive presence
    Exterior defense
    Effective and efficient shooting

    Draft any player that fills 1-2 of those needs WELL, and I’ll be extremely happy and looking forward to next season.

    What we DON’T need:
    Scoring
    Volume shooting
    Slashing
    *Insert player that needs ball in his hands here unless he’s distributing*

  9. DS

    It’s so depressing as a Knick fan that DX has Ty Lawson listed Kemba Walker’s “best case scenario.”

  10. DS

    Meanwhile, Aaron Brooks as a “worst case scenario” seems like a pretty small downside to me.

  11. TDM

    It would be incredibly lame to pass on Kemba were he to fall to 17. I like Biyombo as well, but word coming out today is that he has a red flag on his back (possible herniated disc), as well as issues with both knees.

  12. adrenaline98

    I don’t believei n that DS. Steve Nash’s best case scenario wasn’t Steve Nash.
    FG% in College, 44%
    3pt%, 40%
    Assists, 6/game senior year

    Seriously, did anyone here actually feel Lawson was a top 10 lottery pick? 8 GMs said Lawson wasn’t, especially at 5’11.

  13. adrenaline98

    WHOA, according to Berman:
    http://www.newyorkpost.com/p/sports/knicks/walsh_ready_to_make_final_imprint_hBzfla8MwK8cV4wpqMOmAM

    “The Knicks already got some good news after Tuesday’s labor meetings, when David Stern mentioned his salary-cap number on his latest proposal could be $62 million, which would give the Knicks a lot of cap room in 2012 for Chris Paul. Weeks ago, the figure loomed around $45 million.”

    With salary rollbacks, that would be a huge shift in what we were thinking.

    If this were true, it’d be:
    Amare, Melo, Howard, CP3? LOL One can dream.

  14. TDM

    adrenaline98: I don’t believei n that DS. Steve Nash’s best case scenario wasn’t Steve Nash.FG% in College, 44%3pt%, 40%Assists, 6/game senior yearSeriously, did anyone here actually feel Lawson was a top 10 lottery pick? 8 GMs said Lawson wasn’t, especially at 5’11.

    If not mistaken, John Abbey did.

  15. Ben R

    Does Douglas not even get a little pass last year because he played most of the season with a seriously hurt shoulder. I question if there is really anyone, outside of the top 5 that is worth Douglas +#17.

    As for who the Knicks should pick. I think one of Markieff, Biyombo, Walker, Burks, falls and if that’s so they are good picks. I think Faried is a very solid pick. I wouldn’t cry if we took a defensive specialist like Singleton, if he falls, or Shumpert, though at 17 he is a bit of a reach.

    I want no part of Vucevic, Jimmer, or Klay Thompson because I think their red flags outway their positives and all three look like they lack the athleticism for their games to translate to the NBA.

    Overall I think that Markieff or Biyombo would be best cases at 17. Markieff has the talent to be a top 5 player in this draft and Biyombo has all-world potential defensively. If either of them fell it would be a great day.

    Again moving Fields or Douglas for anything short of Valanciunas or one of the top 3 players would be a mistake.

  16. tastycakes

    I know next to nothing about any of these guys, except what I hear from Ted Nelson and Chad Ford.

    So, seeing how I generally tend to root for players based on whether or not they seem like genuine, interesting, cool human beings, I’m going to use the 17th pick in my imaginary draft to select Bismack Biyombo.

    The interview at Grantland is what swayed me:

    http://espn.go.com/espn/grantland/story/_/id/6679686/your-deal

  17. adrenaline98

    tasty, how could you pass up on a guy named BISMACK. Say it a few times. Say it with an African accent. Like Stephen A Smith says, DRAFT THE DUDE FROM CONGO.

  18. Ben R

    TDM: If not mistaken, John Abbey did.

    Actually if I remember correctly there were many people on this board wanting the Knicks to take Lawson at #8. I wanted Lawson more than Curry which in hindsight wouldn’t have been the best, but I definitely wanted him more than Hill. I think that year the minority didn’t want Lawson at 8, at least on this board.

  19. adrenaline98

    I was not yet on this board. I am more surprised that a bunch of you here wanted a mini-guard that’s more of a scorer than anything. I certainly didn’t like the Hill pick. I don’t even remember seeing his name anywhere near the Knicks’ pick. Then again, I really wasn’t paying as much attention after a decade of futility. It was about next years FAs at that point.

  20. Z

    Ben R: Actually if I remember correctly there were many people on this board wanting the Knicks to take Lawson at #8.

    I think I was the only person on this board that DIDN’T want to draft Lawson #8… go check the draft thread in the archives. There were two days straight of cursing and bitching when Lawson and Blair were both passed over by Walsh.

    I remember Caleb had Lawson as the best PG prospect in that draft. It was the first time that I realize the stat-heads may actually be better at the draft than the people actually paid to make the picks. It was eye-opening.

  21. Ted Nelson

    adrenaline98: What we DON’T need:
    Scoring
    Volume shooting
    Slashing

    Every player is going to score… even Yinka Dare scored a bit. I think you’re taking too one-dimensional an approach at evaluating prospects. You’re drafting the whole package, not one skill.

    I’ll take an extreme example: Marshon Brooks. I’ve been as turned off by him as a “chucker” as everyone else… however, with a 7 foot wingspan this is also a guy who deflects a lot of balls and gets a lot of rebounds. He was a very efficient scorer in college despite carrying a ridiculous scoring load. I’m not advocating Brooks as the #17 pick, just saying that no matter what my team “needed” I would not draft a one-dimensional inefficient chucker over a better prospect. I don’t think Brooks is necessarily as one dimensional as he’s made out to be, though, so at some point in the top 20 I would probably very seriously consider him. He could be a strong 2-guard next to Melo and Amare, in the best case, as an efficient medium-volume scorer and strong defender.

    adrenaline98: Seriously, did anyone here actually feel Lawson was a top 10 lottery pick? 8 GMs said Lawson wasn’t, especially at 5’11.

    Go back in the archives and you’ll that just about this entire board did. Yes.

  22. TDM

    More on Lawson from Knickerblogger Past:

    “Thomas B. says:
    June 23, 2009 at 9:34 pm
    If Curry and Evans are gone by the 8th, and we can’t trade up to get Rubio then I say just take Lawson at 8. I know it sounds crazy but if Lawson turns out to be a solid starter/contributer then who will care that we took him 8th? I do NOT like the idea of trading Chandler to get Lawson when we could just take him for free at 8. We don’t have to take Flynn or Jennings just because draft sites and conventional wisdom says they rank higher. Get the player you think is the best fit and who you think can contribute. If we want to address the PG, then take Lawson 8th. It’s just the kind of gutsy move (if it works) that few GM’s have the guts to do.”

    “jon abbey says:
    June 25, 2009 at 11:50 pm
    could have had Lawson and Blair, instead we have Hill and Douglas. f*$k this team.” [Redacted for the faint of heart]

    Also, Crockett actually had the Knicks selecting him at 8 in his predraft mock for KB:

    http://knickerblogger.net/pre-draft-camp-mock-and-draft-thoughts-part-ii-l-o-t-t-o/

  23. Frank

    The whole Lawson fiasco is what makes me a little nervous about Donnie in this circumstance. I know he made the Reggie Miller over Steve Alford move, but it sure seemed like he fell into the trap of taking the guy (Jordan Hill) he was “supposed to take”, and not taking a guy that by all accounts he loved (Lawson) because it was “too early” to take him.

    That whole situation felt a little like Walsh/D’Antoni really thought they were getting Curry, and when they didn’t, they sort of just froze. Hopefully that’s not the case tonight, if Jimmer, Kemba, Thompson, or whoever gets picked right before we do.

  24. Frank O.

    Sorry. It would be stunning if Kemba dropped to 17. It would be more stunning if the Knicks didn’t take him, given the chance.
    Stunning, IMHO, that Fredette would go before Kemba.
    Kemba led virtually single-handedly UCONN to the championship. He knows how to win, and, when needed, put his team on his back.

    Also, someone earlier mentioned that he is “unproven against elite, taller interior defense in the NBA.” That’s kind of silly.
    None of these guys are proven against anything in the NBA.
    He has, however, won a national championship almost on sheer personal will, putting him in the most exclusive club in this particular draft.

  25. CRJoe

    Ben R:
    Does Douglas not even get a little pass last year because he played most of the season with a seriously hurt shoulder. I question if there is really anyone, outside of the top 5 that is worth Douglas +#17.

    Again moving Fields or Douglas for anything short of Valanciunas or one of the top 3 players would be a mistake.

    Thank you, it’s crazy to think we could land a more valuable rotation player at the 10th spot, though maybe we could get something else in return, could we snag Ilyasova along with the pick??? Or Reggie Williams and the 11th… Even maybe Raja Bell, (don’t know about his contract) and the 12th…

  26. Z-man

    I’m humpin’ for Shump at 17. Or take a crack at Bismack. Klay would make my day. Burks works. Fredette it? Forgette it. Faried? Ain’t no Willis Reed. Kemba? Hope I don’t see you in Novemba.

  27. Tyler Murray

    I’m looking forward to just sitting back and enjoying this draft. In past year’s I’ve been so flabbergasted with certain picks (eg. Jordan Hill, Renaldo Balkman) that it’s ruined the experience.

    This year, we know what the Knicks need, and if it doesn’t pan out…well, this was a weak draft, so there wasn’t much they could have done anyway.

    That said, Kemba’s always idolized Melo and wants to play for NY, so I’m sure he’d be willing to adapt his game a bit to fit into the system. But he’ll be gone by 17.

    Realistically, I’m looking at Marcus Morris and Iman Shumpert at guard, and Jeremy Tyler at center.

  28. adrenaline98

    I highly doubt Kemba will drop that far. I foresee someone like Bismack Biyombo, a Ben Wallace type, that drops farther than someone like Kemba. Maybe Kemba drops to like 13th or 14th, and then someone will pretty much have to take him.

    And I too am surprised so many of you picked Lawson, good job by all. This year seems more divided though. None of us really agree on the player, only the qualities/needs we need to fulfill.

  29. adrenaline98

    Ted, you know what I meant…I mean a player like TD falls into ‘scoring’ as does Melo and Amare. Sure, I’d be happy if Biyombo gives me 3-5 layups/dunks/putbacks a game, and he scores. It’d already be a huge improvement of Jeffries missing layups or trying to lay it up when he’s wide open.

  30. ess-dog

    Guys that I would like to see on our team and where we should take them:

    Biyombo btwn 7 and 17
    Kemba between 13 and 17
    Mk.Morris between 15 and 22
    Burks between 15 and 22
    Klay Thompson between 17 and 22
    Faried between 17 and 25
    Vucevic between 17 and 28
    D. Morris between 20 and 40

  31. Frank

    Just thinking out loud that the biggest acquisition of this offseason may not be a player at all – if “sources” can be believed and D’Antoni is being required to hire a D-coordinator, someone like Lawrence Frank would probably make a HUGE difference for our 11-12 team.

  32. Garson

    When I read about Farieds offensive game… I keep on hearing how inept he is on the offensive end. From people on the board… they compare him to “gulp” jeffries.

    After watching this again, I feel like he will not be a liablity in our offense . He seems to have major hops and is a excellent finisher around the basket. After the Melo trade, we saw how much doubling he gets and melos willing to pass to the open man in the middle. Not saying that faried is the perfect man for this job, but just dont think he would be a negative. Oh, and he can rebound and block shots also!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5dYqgjl-7M

  33. CRJoe

    Frank:
    Just thinking out loud that the biggest acquisition of this offseason may not be a player at all – if “sources” can be believed and D’Antoni is being required to hire a D-coordinator, someone like Lawrence Frank would probably make a HUGE difference for our 11-12 team.

    And to think we don’t need luck or another team involved to make it happen… Just the willingness to do it…. It makes you wonder why we haven’t done it already…

  34. Frank

    Meanwhile this is the longest. work. day. ever.

    @37 – I think Lawrence Frank is still in the running to be the Pistons HC, and if Minny is really looking for a new coach he might be a good fit there too. Let’s hope he falls on his face in those interviews.

    Probasketballdraft guy, whoever he is (connected with Cleveland Plain Dealer I guess, and vouched for by Hahn) seems to think that Kemba is falling and will be available for us. Would be a great story and hopefully as good a fit/player for us. (@probballdraft on twitter)

  35. CRJoe

    @38 The Knicks were looking at Ron Adams as well, the guy implemented strong defensive systems in Milwaukee, OKC & was under Thibodeau in Chicago last year… He’s great at what he does… But you gotta wonder if such a low profile guy will accomplish much with Melo & Stat….

  36. Ted Nelson

    adrenaline98: Ted, you know what I meant…I mean a player like TD falls into ‘scoring’ as does Melo and Amare.

    Yeah, but TD also defends well and has at least some PG skills. So I think a lot is lost in oversimplifying evaluation to the level of defining guys by one skills. He’s a scorer. He’s a rebounder. Too simple.

    What I meant by Brooks is that in labelling him a “scorer” we miss his length and ability to contribute on defense/the boards… not to mention that efficient scoring and inefficient scoring are two different animals.

    Ben R: Overall I think that Markieff or Biyombo would be best cases at 17.

    Would be great… I also agree with some of the other names on ess-dog’s list: Burks, Kemba, Faried, Thompson. I also like Motiejunas enough to role the dice, and wouldn’t be upset if they love Shumpert (which apparently they do) or Brooks. Singleton or Tristan if they fall… That’s the thing is that you’re really picking from the guys other teams don’t pick. Can’t control who is there. Lots on intriguing names.

    Frank: The whole Lawson fiasco is what makes me a little nervous about Donnie in this circumstance.

    It’s one guy that a lot of GMs and talent evaluators had questions about… As you yourself pointed out yesterday, Walsh may have had Hill #1 and Lawson #2 on his board.

  37. Frank

    @40 – true again on the Walsh/Lawson/Hill thing! Man do we agree on everything nowadays.

    It sure did feel like a panic pick at the time though. I know I was panicked after Curry went off the board ONE PICK BEFORE US.

  38. Jim Cavan

    Fellow KBers: Just arrived in Joisey to cover the Draft. I’ll be tweeting throughout the night, so stay tuned to @KnickerBlogger for updates.

    If these Kemba rumors are true….wow.

  39. Ted Nelson

    CRJoe: Thank you, it’s crazy to think we could land a more valuable rotation player at the 10th spot

    Totally crazy that there might be even one player available who is better than the great Toney Douglas.

    I like Toney Douglas a lot, but the guy is an average or a bit above average NBA player.

    Can you find any draft other than the 2000 draft maybe where there wasn’t a better player than Toney Douglas available #10.

    The chances may not be in favor of the Knicks finding a better player, but I think it’s very likely that they *could* find a better player if they make the right pick. You should make the former point instead of the latter.

    Garson: After watching this again, I feel like he will not be a liablity in our offense .

    Yeah, I agree that he’s got a good shot at not being a total drag on an offense and/or doing enough other stuff to make up for it. It’s unlikely he’s a freak to the Rodman extent, but that definitely seems to be his best case. Rodman, of course, had some pitiful offensive seasons where he was still a big contributor (had some solid offensive seasons too).

    Frank: It sure did feel like a panic pick at the time though. I know I was panicked after Curry went off the board ONE PICK BEFORE US.

    He was going around that pick in just about every mock draft, though, so I didn’t see it as a panic move. More just a plan b. I wasn’t a big fan, but I don’t think it was or has been as bad as a lot of people make it out to be. Hill’s been a solid NBA player and is still young. There were a lot worse choices, IMO, and I see Hill as an average choice to date.

  40. John Kenney Post author

    The best part about Kemba is he plays at 1000% and would have tremendous “rootability”. As for my earlier trade idea, i wouldn’t do it, as i’d rather have two assets than one. If he fell, however, we could have Kemba and Carmelo team up as “NCAA champions who single-handedly won the title and are over-rated because of it.” Maybe Kemba’s work ethic would rub off on Carmelo.

  41. ess-dog

    For the record, Kemba is definitely better than Toney Douglas, and I like Toney Douglas. I think that 30 pt game was pretty good for Toney’s trade value. People see a game like that and think it’s the norm, which it isn’t. And don’t overtout Toney’s D. He got hugely burned in the playoffs by Ray Allen and others – he’s far from a perfect defender.

    Again, I like him as a 7th man but he’s expendable for the right price.

  42. ess-dog

    btw, I’m talking about the Chicago game where Toney went nuts from 3 pt land and scored 30.

  43. CRJoe

    Ted Nelson: I like Toney Douglas a lot, but the guy is an average or a bit above average NBA player.

    Can you find any draft other than the 2000 draft maybe where there wasn’t a better player than Toney Douglas available #10.

    Outside of the 5, maybe 6 best players (Irving, Kanter, Knight, Williams, Vesely & Kawhi), and not counting with Jonas, ’cause I wouldn’t measure his value if his not gonna play next year (don’t know about his status), there isn’t one guy I would take over TD, in the sense of a trade involving him and a pick swap…

    And if you take the sleeping, home-run, deep second round picks (Gasol, Landry, Millsap), you would have a hard time justifying ’07 & ’10 drafts, say Chandler??? Rodney Stuckey??? Even in ’06, Rondo went 21st, but after Rudy Gay at 8th??? Ronnie Brewer, or Renaldo…

  44. CRJoe

    @45 & 46… I love Kemba, it would be a blessing to have him if he falls to us… But swap the picks AND send Toney away for him??? Nah, I’d never do that deal…

  45. Degree Absolute

    I think we should seriously consider Tyler Honeycutt. He has high ceiling from all accounts and he might be able to find a niche right away with spot shooting and moving off the ball on offense. At 6’9 he could be a match up nightmare at the SG. Also, all those kids from UCLA love to play some D.

  46. Ben R

    There is a chance that if we could draft a player better than TD but in this draft it seems like a long shot. I don’t think we can afford to trade an average to above average NBA guard on a rookie contract to roll the dice in this draft. Between 7 and 17 there will probably be 1 or 2 players that turn out better than TD and 1 or 2 that are about equal and 6 or 7 that are worse. The odds just don’t seem there to justify a sure thing NBA player for the chance at a slightly better NBA player while risking a total dud.

    Faried was not a bad offensive player. Faried shot 54.2% in the post the fourth best number of all prospects, he also scored 1.484 points per possesion at the basket the best of all prospects this year. Faried is good at scoring in the post, on the break and at the basket with cuts, PnRs and putbacks. He shot 62% on 2pt fgs. The thing he lacks and will probably always lack is a jumpshot.

    Offensively Faried is limited but at what he does do he does very well. As long as he keeps moving and cutting he will be a very difficult player to double off of since he can finish and rebound so well. I am actually more worried about him defensively because he likes to front in the post and gamble. I question whether he can be effective defending 1 on 1 in the post against bigger players. Overall though he is a very good fall back pick if none of the lottery talent (Walker, Biyombo, Berks, Markieff, Valanciunas) falls to us.

  47. ess-dog

    CRJoe:
    @45 & 46… I love Kemba, it would be a blessing to have him if he falls to us… But swap the picks AND send Toney away for him??? Nah, I’d never do that deal…

    I would do it. If you think you can have a good/great player for two above-average players, then you make the trade. I think Kemba’s floor is Ty Lawson personally. I think his ceiling is a Ben Gordon/Rondo hybrid.

    Tyler Honeycutt’s TS is pretty bad (.519??) and his win shares, minimal. He would have to be an all-world defensive player to even be considered the pick at 17.

    Also, this is an interesting tidbit: “Teams calling Sacramento about the #7 pick are being told it’s already been moved. Problem is, no one knows to who, or for which player.”

    From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/#ixzz1Q8J7L9S4
    http://www.draftexpress.com

  48. adrenaline98

    I know a few wellspoken and outspoken posters here like Faried. My problem isn’t what Faried can do, but what he CAN’T do. Look, he brings a TON of positives to a team, and we all know what those positives are. But what he doesn’t bring is the size to guard 5s. We ALREADY KNOW Amare is not suited to guard 5s. We ALREADY know he is a defensive liability, especially when guarding 5s. Does Faried solve that problem for us? Faried fits in better with a Yao Ming type of traditional center than a Amare type. Biyombo complements Bargnani/Amare. Faried does NOT complement Amare. This is why there is a lot of speculation that the Raps will take him now.

    It’s not about Faried’s offense, rebounding, hustle, or motor that worries me. It’s his actual defense. We all know Amare cannot guard D-12. Can Faried? Can he even guard a Kaman, or Bogut? Legit 7′ centers that counts towards our wins and losses for playoff positioning? I’m fairly certain with work, Biyombo can. I’m not certain if Faried EVER can. In the end, height does play a factor, even a perceptive one, on defense. And the worst part of this is that someone like Biyombo only really stands 6’10 in shoes.

  49. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Re: Kemba

    What is a “proven winner?” What does that even mean?

    And what does it say about a 6’6″ PF who still dominated the NCAA in overall rebounding? Why couldn’t he play PF next to Stat and Carmelo with an uptempo PG? Someone’s gotta clean up after those 15-footers that Stat seems to think he can will into the basket.

  50. Garson

    Adrenaline98… I agree that Biyombo is the better pick… but there arent any mocks that have him falling even close.

  51. Z-man

    DX now has Knicks taking Shumpert at #17. I don’t get why he isn’t getting more love here. The guy is a legit 6’5″ w/ shoes, jumps out of the gym, has good speed, benches among the most weight in the draft, is 20 years old, has PG ball-handling skills, and is a strong defender. He’s bigger, stronger, faster and jumps WAY higher than Tyreke Evans did when he came out. His stats are actually eerily similar to Tyreke’s. He is MUCH bigger, stronger, jumps higher, and is almost as fast as Russell Westbrook was when he came out. This guy is D-Wade physically and can handle the rock. He has two mega-scorers and Chauncey to pass to. The only knock I hear is that he can’t shoot, which is probably overstated. If this team wants to win a championship, they need someone who can play both ends of the floor. Jimmer will get absolutely smoked by most NBA PGs, not to mention SGs; I see him as an Eddie House type at best. We don’t need a SF or PF nearly as much as a guard or center. I would love to see us take a flyer on Tyler or JaJuan by adding a later pick.

    The PG position has become very deep and athletic in the NBA. Whatever Shumpert gives up in efficiency, he would make up for in rebounding and on the defensive end. Playing with Chauncey might make him a better player as well. I hope DX is right on this one.

  52. adrenaline98

    Garson: Adrenaline98… I agree that Biyombo is the better pick… but there arent any mocks that have him falling even close.

    Yea I know. I don’t expect him to fall either. I am just making the point that I don’t see Faried complementing Amare, not that we’ll get gifted a Biyombo. We still have the issue of Amare guarding fives, wearing out by the end of the year. You can at least agree with this THCJ.

    Since the NCAA reset it’s rebounding leaders in the 70s, the top 5 are:
    Faried
    Duncan
    Coleman
    Rose
    Sampson

    The shortest was Rose, happens to be Farieds height. I suppose if we get a Malik out of Faried, it wouldn’t be too bad.

  53. ess-dog

    Z-man:
    DX now has Knicks taking Shumpert at #17.I don’t get why he isn’t getting more love here.

    His college win shares are pretty bad, which point to the fact that his teams have been pretty bad. Yes, his shooting is bad – he didn’t crack .400FG% until his junior year. His 3pt% is bad too. His asst/turnover ratio isn’t very good either, although I’ll give him a bit of a break there b/c he moved to off-guard.

    Look, Nick Young can jump out of the gym. Do you want him?

  54. dmull

    I want Josh Selby. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem likely. He has as much upside as anyone in this draft and is projected to go well after a number of guys that would simply be comical to take before. Sure there is some risk there but it’s not like we have a top 10 pick. He’s a combo guard which is nice because we still hold out hope on CP3…he doesn’t really strengthen our weakness on the inside, but he I’d just take BPA at that point. Bismack, Faried, Klay, Kemba would all be fine. Players that seem to be talked about that I do NOT want: Shump, Vucevic, D Morris.

    There are actually a number of guys that intrigue me amidst a bunch of Reggie Jackson, Kyle Singler, Tyler Honeycutt players that I deem worthless. Singleton, Harris, Brooks, M Morris are all intriguing.

    Will be fun to watch either way.

  55. Ben R

    ess-dog: I think Kemba’s floor is Ty Lawson personally. I think his ceiling is a Ben Gordon/Rondo hybrid.

    Walker doesn’t have the passsing, shooting or defensive numbers Lawson had in college, he doesn’t have close to Gordon’s shooting numbers or Rondo’s defensive and rebounding numbers. I would say his numbers are no where near to Lawson’s, and while more well rounded than Rondo or Gordon a lot worse shooter than Gordon and a lot worse defensive player than Rondo. Walker looks like a decent prospect, overall I like his numbers more than Gordon’s college numbers but he is no where the the standout prospect Lawson was or the impressive physical specimen that Rondo was. Lawson put together one of the greatest college seasons ever is last year at North Carolina.

    As for Shumpert he looks like an okay player but I think he is going to be Brewer 2.0. Great defender, decent passer, no offensive skills whatsoever.

  56. Garson

    Weird thought… Would you guys be up to trading the pick for a future first rounder??

    Doesnt look good now, but when the Paul trade fiasco happens midseason, at least we could package a first rounder with the other crap we are offering.

  57. adrenaline98

    Is it safe to say that shooting is probably the least important stat for us to consider? Considering we have a lot of scoring options, unless he is Rondo bad, most players in the NBA improve on their shooting, as basketball is their craft and they can improve on certain crafts. A lot of ‘unimprovable’ talents + desire seem to make the best players. Jordan’s FG% in college and early in the pros may have been high, but certainly, he was infamous for his inability to shoot beyond a mid-range shot.

    I actually like Shumpert’s athletic ability. My question is does he have the mentality to run the point. Does he look to make highlights as opposed to perform highlights. I guess my point is you’ll never have Douglas doing Nate Robinson dunks. No matter how much of an improvement you make on your vertical, he will never catch Nate. It’s InNate (I know, terrible joke).

    Either way, in the end, these wings are all a crapshoot and you never know where injuries takes athletic players. Shaun Livingston was supposed to be the next Magic Johnson.

  58. TDM

    From Chad Ford:

    “The Milwaukee Bucks have agreed in principle to a three-team trade with the Sacramento Kings and the Charlotte Bobcats, multiple sources said Thursday.

    The Bucks will get Sacramento’s Beno Udrih, Charlotte’s Stephen Jackson and Shaun Livingston and the 19th pick from the Bobcats in Thursday night’s draft, while Charlotte obtains the No. 7 pick from Sacramento and forward Corey Maggette from Milwaukee.

    The Kings will get guard John Salmons from Milwaukee and the 10th pick in the draft. Charlotte will keep the No. 9 pick.

    A source close to one of the teams told ESPN.com that other players might be added to the deal.”

  59. Frank

    The Honorable Cock Jowles:

    And what does it say about a 6’6? PF who still dominated the NCAA in overall rebounding? Why couldn’t he play PF next to Stat and Carmelo with an uptempo PG? Someone’s gotta clean up after those 15-footers that Stat seems to think he can will into the basket.

    Actually he’s a 6’6″ PF who dominated a little dinky conference in rebounding. He’s not necessarily DeJuan Blair or Derrick Coleman who dominated the Big East, or Duncan who dominated the ACC.

    I like Faried and wouldn’t be upset if he was the pick – I think the chances he’ll be anything but a solid rotation player are pretty small. But in this system, a guy who can’t do anything offensively from more then 3 feet out is a guy who wrecks the spacing of the whole team. Now you might say that he’ll more than make up for that with O-rebounds, but it’s definitely possible that he WON’T make the offense better. On the other hand, his size will force us to play Amare at the 5, which will definitely make the defense worse.

    If we’re taking a frontcourt player, I really hope it’s Vucevic or Markieff. Doubt Singleton falls but I’d love to get him. If backcourt, Kemba would be a no-brainer, but I’d be happy with Shumpert otherwise.

  60. adrenaline98

    Wow, draftexpress describes Shumpert as:
    “Still a streaky perimeter scorer, Shumpert is far too reliant on his jump shooting ability, and often looks to pull-up when he puts the ball on the floor. 68% of his shot attempts are of the jump-shot variety, but he knocks down just 28.4% of them, and gets even worse when pulling up off the dribble, making 19.5% of his pull-up attempts. While he’s hitting his free throws at a very respectable rate, Shumpert’s shooting still haven’t caught up with his solid mechanics and remain by far his biggest weakness, especially when you look at the way he operates on the floor sometimes—usually taking the first shot available to him, regardless of whether it’s a good or bad attempt.

    Shumpert’s most consistent contributions come in transition, where he can use his speed and first step most effectively. A solid finisher who has become more adept at drawing contact and finishing plays himself instead of forcing tough passes, Shumpert still flashes good court vision on occasion, but has a great deal of room to improve offensively on the whole.”

    So he does shoot like Rondo, except his passing isn’t there. :\ At least he hits 80% of his free throws?

  61. Frank

    Meanwhile WTF was that trade for Sacramento? Salmons sort of sucks and has an even worse contract that Udrih, not to mention that he and Tyreke Evans play a similar sort of game (dribble a lot, shoot it badly). I wouldn’t even make that trade 1 for 1, and the Kings moved back 3 picks to boot?

  62. flossy

    I’d take Kemba at 17. He’s not a lottery talent, but he’ll be a poor man’s Aaron Brooks and at least we’d be reasonably certain of getting a legit NBA player midway through a weak draft, which is no sure thing.

  63. Degree Absolute

    ess-dog: Tyler Honeycutt’s TS is pretty bad (.519??) and his win shares, minimal. He would have to be an all-world defensive player to even be considered the pick at 17.

    Hmmm well I think he led the Pac-10 in blocked shots. Does the second best defender on UCLA count as all world?

  64. Ted Nelson

    CRJoe: ’07 & ’10 drafts, say Chandler??? Rodney Stuckey??? Even in ’06, Rondo went 21st, but after Rudy Gay at 8th??? Ronnie Brewer, or Renaldo…

    More recent (like ’10) is a bit tricky, since there’s a lot of room for improvement.
    06: Rondo was a top 5-10 pick in most mocks and slipped… taking him 10 wouldn’t have been crazy at all. At worse Ronnie Brewer (probably by pick at the time) or Thabo are toss ups with TD.
    07: Thaddeus Young. He appears to have motivational issues, but his 19 and 22 year old seasons have been very strong.
    10: These guys are coming off their rookie seasons. Some of these guys are just turning 20, while TD is 25. Ed Davis and Patrick Patterson would be my picks based on early returns.

    As far as this season’s draft, I’m more concerned with Donnie Walsh’s evaluation than CRJoe’s. There are certainly a bunch of guys with the potential to be better than TD.

    Ben R: There is a chance that if we could draft a player better than TD but in this draft it seems like a long shot. I don’t think we can afford to trade an average to above average NBA guard on a rookie contract to roll the dice in this draft.

    Again, I’ll leave it to Donnie. I wouldn’t rush into it, but if he sees a deal that make sense I’ll probably be on board. That it’s a weak draft class overall doesn’t mean there won’t be a couple of stand-outs.

    I guess the question with Faried’s offense is more whether that finishing ability translates to NBA athleticism.

  65. ess-dog

    Ben R: Walker doesn’t have the passsing, shooting or defensive numbers Lawson had in college, he doesn’t have close to Gordon’s shooting numbers or Rondo’s defensive and rebounding numbers. I would say his numbers are no where near to Lawson’s, and while more well rounded than Rondo or Gordon a lot worse shooter than Gordon and a lot worse defensive player than Rondo. Walker looks like a decent prospect, overall I like his numbers more than Gordon’s college numbers but he is no where the the standout prospect Lawson was or the impressive physical specimen that Rondo was. Lawson put together one of the greatest college seasons ever is last year at North Carolina.

    I agree that Kemba doesn’t have Lawson’s efficiency but he was relied on to score much more than Lawson. Kemba’s efficiency is an issue, even though he gets to the line a lot. He’s probably closer to Felton than Lawson at this point. But he had a very good junior year aside from the average 3pt shooting. He had 5.5 rebounds a game! I think we’d take him if he was there at 17.

  66. CRJoe

    Frank:
    Meanwhile WTF was that trade for Sacramento?Salmons sort of sucks and has an even worse contract that Udrih, not to mention that he and Tyreke Evans play a similar sort of game (dribble a lot, shoot it badly). I wouldn’t even make that trade 1 for 1, and the Kings moved back 3 picks to boot?

    It seems like an awful trade for the Kings, I mean their line-up now goes Jimmer, Tyreke, Salmons, Cousins & X post player??? And the money is terrible for them as well…

    It’s great for Charlotte though, now they have Maggete on the wing, they can add a couple big men with 2 top ten picks, seems like Bismack could be snagged earlier than I expected…

  67. CRJoe

    Ted Nelson: As far as this season’s draft, I’m more concerned with Donnie Walsh’s evaluation than CRJoe’s.

    Really??? ‘Cause you seem to dwindle more in what I think than what Donnie has said… And come on??? Brewer & Patterson over TD??? Seriously???

  68. adrenaline98

    Ted and THCJ, other than Faried (if you had to pick a wing player, like what we perceive Donnie to do unless a solid big falls), who statistically translates best for us?

  69. Ted Nelson

    ess-dog,

    One theory is that Howland’s system limits players’ offensive efficiency based on a bunch of recent UCLA guys getting better offensively in the NBA.

    adrenaline98: Is it safe to say that shooting is probably the least important stat for us to consider?

    Uhhh…. I don’t see any justification for that, no. They are drafting a player, not one aspect of his game. If a player can’t score efficiently, it’s usually an uphill battle to be a good NBA player. Can do it with great ability in other areas, but it’s just better to score efficiently AND have that ability in other areas.

    Ben R: Brewer 2.0. Great defender, decent passer, no offensive skills whatsoever.

    Ronnie Brewer? or Corey Brewer?

    adrenaline98: It’s his actual defense. We all know Amare cannot guard D-12.

    This one pick doesn’t have to solve all their problems. Just be a piece in a rotation. Their bigman rotation can be Amare, Faried, and a legit post defender. Or they can go far without a perfect roster, winning or not winning a ‘ship.

  70. adrenaline98

    CRJoe: Really??? ‘Cause you seem to dwindle more in what I think than what Donnie has said… And come on??? Brewer & Patterson over TD??? Seriously???

    Joe, I think a bunch of us has fallen in love with TD’s defensive hustle, hitting some big shots and playing quietly hurt all season. But he is a career backup at best, with no court vision. He simply cannot be a starting point and run show. He fits in better with LeBron James than a Carmelo/Amare, I think. The other players are more serviceable at their positions than TD is at his.

  71. adrenaline98

    @76, Ted, I remember reading from here that statistically, NBA players’ shooting improves throughout their career, provided that their form is solid. Efficiently is the key word though, and Draftexpress claims that Shumpert, while huge athletically, often pulls up for jumpers that he often misses. This part I agree with you. A player needs to be efficient and good at what he’s most capable, and from what is said about Shumpert, he doesn’t fully use the gifts given to him. I don’t think this is a damning trait, however. Can’t he learn to be more Wade than Gordon?

  72. Ben R

    ess-dog: I think we’d take him if he was there at 17.

    I would love to get walker at 17, I just don’t project him as good as either Lawson or Rondo.

    adrenaline98:
    Ted and THCJ, other than Faried (if you had to pick a wing player, like what we perceive Donnie to do unless a solid big falls), who statistically translates best for us?

    For me my top choice for a big that could very well be availiable for us is Markieff Morris. I think he is one of the top 10 players in this draft and a lot of drafts have him availiable at 17. This draft really comes down to who slips. We just need to be flexible enough to take the best player when our pick comes up, even if he wasn’t on our board.

    I am really glad Jimmer won’t slip because I don’t think he’ll be good at all, same with Klay Thompson.

  73. Ted Nelson

    CRJoe: Really??? ‘Cause you seem to dwindle more in what I think than what Donnie has said… And come on??? Brewer & Patterson over TD??? Seriously???

    I don’t know what Donnie thinks… even his public comments you have to consider his agenda might include throwing people off the scent. Say he hates Jimmer and thinks he’s Dan Dickau 2.0… by buying into the Nash comparisons he does what he can so that one guy he doesn’t like is off the board before #17 and maybe before a pick he’d like to trade up to. Just as an example.

    Patterson is a really great athlete who plays the 4 and as a 21 year old rookie had a PER of 16.7 and WS/48 of .134 in close to 900 minutes. TD at 23 and 24 has been about 15 PER, .100 as a 6 foot guard. I specifically said it’s tough to judge guys from the 2010 draft today, though. A lot of them are 20. Guys like Avery Bradley (for example) could be total busts or develop into strong players… no idea.

    Ronnie Brewer is a 6-7 SG who plays strong defense. He’s only a year older than TD and his career marks are 15.4 PER and .138 WS/48… I was hoping he’d develop more as a playmaker when drafted, but I’m a fan.

    adrenaline98: Ted and THCJ, other than Faried (if you had to pick a wing player, like what we perceive Donnie to do unless a solid big falls), who statistically translates best for us?

    DraftExpress.com has statistical breakdowns for guards/wings/forwards/bigs… pretty interesting stuff. I haven’t seen it, but people keep referencing a Basketball Prospectus article comparing prospects to NBA players. Not sure if that’s statistical or eye. Then there are Hollinger and Berri’s projection systems.

  74. adrenaline98

    You know, I’m watching the draftexpress.com scouting strengths and weaknesses video on Markieff Morris and I have to say, most of the good stuff, I feel is impressive and fills a need for the Knicks. His size is the only real issue, but he doesn’t have bad hops at all (my Shelden Williams comparison is off, my mistake). The only thing I can’t see him doing well is his interior moves. He will certainly not get those easy looks with his little baby hook in the pros. And his turn around looks like a piece of steak to Kevin Garnett or Dwight Howard in my opinion. But, I am surprised to learn he actually has 3 pt range. That’s fairly impressive for a bigman that is downlow 95% of the time.

  75. taggart4800

    To use a golfing analogy, outside the top 10 seems to be a bag of 5 irons. All those layers seem to have the potential to be good NBA contributors to the tune of say a Tayshaun Prince or Rip Hamilton level, so I am not too worried what we do with the 17th.
    I am however very interested in what we do with the rest of the draft. I get a sneeky suspicion that we have been in trade talks with the celtics because suddenly they are talking about taking Tyler. That is only put out there for someone to take the bait even if its not us.
    If we go deep into the 2nd then I really like Greg Smith. He has a big body and per his DX workout video ridiculously big hands. His form is terrible but then D’Antoni put up with Marion. Selby is worth a shot in the 2nd as is anyone from the group of Darius Morris, Nolan Smith and Charles Jenkins. I doubt Tyler or JaJuan are there but they would be solid also.

  76. Ted Nelson

    I think the Lawson floor is ridiculous, but that Walker can be a good NBA player. Solid defender. Good penetrator, and the NBA is set up for penetrators to excel like Kim Kardashian is. Decent J that could develop into a good one. And being at least a solid floor general seems to me to be as much about work ethic as skill. Jason Kidd like floor vision is a skill, but solid PG skills can usually be worked on by someone of Walker’s ability. And a conventional PG is overrated anyway, in my opinion.

    Ben R: We just need to be flexible enough to take the best player when our pick comes up, even if he wasn’t on our board.

    ? Taking the best player on your board would sort of imply he’s on your board.

    adrenaline98: @76, Ted, I remember reading from here that statistically, NBA players’ shooting improves throughout their career, provided that their form is solid.

    Yeah, a jumper is relatively easy to improve compared to other skills. Scoring efficiently, usually less so. A player can be valuable even if they’re inefficient scoring the ball, it’s just harder.

    In terms of Iman in particular… I don’t think he’s going to learn to be Dwayne Wade… but apparently the Knicks are high on him. If he’s a shut down perimeter defender who can at least hit an open shot… could definitely be an NBA player. Perhaps his shot selection can be coached up, especially in a really limited offensive role. I imagine there are guys I’d take over him at #17… but what do I know? If he can defend, that’s something.

  77. Ted Nelson

    Ted Nelson: Yeah, a jumper is relatively easy to improve compared to other skills. Scoring efficiently, usually less so.

    I mean, improving your J should improve your scoring efficiency all else equal. And I’m sure there’s a bell curve where average scoring efficiency increases till a player’s prime, then might decrease as they age. Just that some guys are always inefficient, be it skill and/or shot selection. Everyone loved AI’s skills, for example, but the guy was almost never efficient. Other guys just lack the skills and never develop it whether that’s work ethic or just an inability to.

  78. Ben R

    Ted Nelson: ? Taking the best player on your board would sort of imply he’s on your board.

    I meant that we need to be open to taking someone we didn’t work out if they slip. GMs tend to get tunnel vision in these drafts and only look at players they thought would be availaiable. It is why a player slips a little then free falls, like Rondo or Granger. We need to be open to taking a Tristan Thompson or a Kemba Walker if they slip even though they might not be on our board at all, since they’re not supposed to be availiable.

    As for late 2nd round the player I really like is Damian Saunders. He is an amazing defensive player with NBA athleticism. A great high reward low risk prospect mid 2nd round.

  79. CRJoe

    Hmmmm…. Jazz & Cavs taking Valanciunas even if Kanter’s on the board??? Maybe there’s something about his buyout we don’t know??? Is it really worth it, I mean is Jonas so much better than Enes to make it worth the year **if** he doesn’t come???

  80. BigBlueAL

    Just for the apparent excitement and “buzz” it would create locally and nationally Im hoping Kemba slips all the way to 17 and the Knicks draft him lol.

  81. Ted Nelson

    Ben R: GMs tend to get tunnel vision in these drafts and only look at players they thought would be availaiable.

    I’m sure a bit of that goes on, but I’m sure it’s also liking other prospects more. There’s a publicly available video of Bryan Colangelo calling a bunch of teams in the teens to try to draft Rondo and finding no takers. So, there might be GMs who like the player but don’t have a pick or just have them #2 or #3 on their board behind other guys.

    Sometimes when a guy slips it’s because there are legit concerns. Rondo certainly had those, even though they proved unfounded. I don’t know if Antoine Wright and Gerald Green went right before Granger because those teams had worked them out, or because they mistakenly thought they were the better picks. John Wallace was another guy who free fell for what turned out to be justified reasons.

    Ben R: We need to be open to taking a Tristan Thompson or a Kemba Walker if they slip even though they might not be on our board at all, since they’re not supposed to be availiable.

    I have no idea how Walsh prepares for the draft, but I see no point in having a board that doesn’t include the top prospects. I like the tier system some teams apparently use, where you always take a prospect from the highest talent/value tier… then within that tier it gets trickier to decide.

    He’s made comments in previous drafts about how Tyreke Evans was the #2 player in that draft, so I think he’s got an eye on everyone.

    Ben R: As for late 2nd round the player I really like is Damian Saunders.

    I’m a big Justin Holiday fan.

  82. Ted Nelson

    CRJoe: Is it really worth it, I mean is Jonas so much better than Enes to make it worth the year **if** he doesn’t come???

    I don’t know who is better… but if you think Jonas is better I wouldn’t worry about the one year. You’re drafting guys for what they’ll be over the next decade… especially 19 year olds. Certainly you’re hoping for instant returns, but if they don’t play as a rookie it’s not going to kill you. Take Blake Griffin who missed his whole rookie season. If I’m a Clippers’ fan I don’t regret that pick at all.

  83. TDM

    Ted Nelson: “Good penetrator, and the NBA is set up for penetrators to excel like Kim Kardashian is”

    Classic! Best Ted Nelson post of the decade. Maybe he’s channelling Thomas B.?

  84. Z

    Ted Nelson:

    I have no idea how Walsh prepares for the draft, but I see no point in having a board that doesn’t include the top prospects.

    I know that last year Walsh and his team made a list 1-39 of the players he wanted, in order. As they were selected, he crossed them off the list, and when it came time to make his picks he went with the two highest guys on the list.

    This was how he said he did it (or would do it– I think he explained this pre-draft). Presumably he made a similar list this year. (Sure would like to get my hands on that list from 2009!!)

  85. CRJoe

    theresastatforthat: I completely agree.Kyrie and Derrick are good players, but I don’t they would be drafted in the top 5 of most drafts.Maybe the foreign players will surprise us 5 years from now.

    As sad as it is… That’s true… I would be much more excited if we could turn the pick for Jason Thompson or Omer Asik straight up, maybe throw someone in there to match salaries…

  86. Ted Nelson

    Z: I know that last year Walsh and his team made a list 1-39 of the players he wanted, in order. As they were selected, he crossed them off the list, and when it came time to make his picks he went with the two highest guys on the list.

    This was how he said he did it (or would do it– I think he explained this pre-draft). Presumably he made a similar list this year. (Sure would like to get my hands on that list from 2009!!)

    Interesting stuff. Seems like the way to do it.

  87. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    For some reason he had Andy Rautins over Fields. Weird, huh?

    I don’t believe in “projects.” The Joe Alexanders of the basketball world usually don’t pan out. I’d rather have the player who, despite his flaws (I’m talking about Faried, if you haven’t noticed), has put up outstanding numbers. I don’t care what conference he played in. I mean, Fields was a “loser” on a bad PAC-10 team, and he turned out to be cut from starter cloth from day one. Faried, like Blair, is a low-risk/high-reward player. Selby projects to be terrible, absolutely awful. Even if he surpasses his statistical projections, he’s another DeJuan Wagner.

    tl;dr:

    Drafting based on athletic ability rather than statistics of previous play is a poor choice.

  88. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Irving and Williams had insane stats (even though Irving’s was significantly abbreviated). Do these idiots know what they’re talking about?

    And can the players hear all of this smack talk over the loudspeakers?

  89. Z

    I’m pretty sure that that PSA for diabetes had the caption “Chris Dudley, NBA Legend”. Did i see that right?!?

  90. adrenaline98

    Most believed Biyombo would be going to the raps due to his match with Bargnani, masking each others’ weakness. Would this mean he will start falling? GS is another team that needs a big at that position.

  91. BigBlueAL

    Z:
    I’m pretty sure that that PSA for diabetes had the caption “Chris Dudley, NBA Legend”. Did i see that right?!?

    LMAO yup you saw it right. Ive seen a few “NBA Legend” under curious names in these type of commercials.

  92. Jim Cavan

    There’s a weird tension here in the building right now. Elephant in the room is the fact that Jimmer, Kemba, and Knight are all still on the board.

  93. CRJoe

    So… With Brandon Knight still on the board, Kemba seems to be falling, if Utah doesn’t grab him at 12 he’s pretty much ours…

  94. adrenaline98

    I’m so glad Jimmer and Klay are both gone. If we draft Marshon Brooks though, I will probably end my life.

  95. adrenaline98

    BigBlueAL: Also Kawhi Leonard falling too.

    YES, I totally forgot about him. Burks wouldn’t be bad either, Singleton if we need a wing stopper, Faried for rebounding. We have good defensive/rebounding options that fill a need still.

  96. rohank

    It sounds like sacta FO/coaches did NOT want jimmer. The maloofs “interfered” a la Dolan. Interesting……………………

  97. latke

    Utah’s golden child stolen right before their eyes. What’s BWPA (best white player available)?

  98. BigBlueAL

    latke:
    Kawhi Leonard will never be even an average nba player. Guaranteed.

    Hollinger’s player rater has him as a historically good lock to have a solid NBA career.

  99. adrenaline98

    6’7, 225, NBA Body at 19 years old. You see how defined this kid is? 7’3 wingspan, 8’10 standing reach? He sucks? Why?

  100. latke

    Leonard is unskilled (by NBA standards — what does he really do well?) and not big enough to play big like he did in college. He is also not uber-athletic when compared to NBA players. I see his best reasonable case scenario as marvin williams.

  101. BigBlueAL

    Well its safe to say no sexy draft pick for the Knicks this year lol.

    Also Mark Jackson guaranteeing the Warriors will make the playoffs next season. LMFAOOOOO

  102. woolygator3

    Kawhi would fit in great on our team kinda like a better defending fields.
    Marcus Morris still there too which is a little surprising after Markeiff

  103. adrenaline98

    So we are left with:
    Faried
    Singleton
    Leonard
    Shumpert
    Motiejunas

    Then the first round bubble players.

  104. art vandelay

    Go Singleton!!! Been pining for this dude for the Knicks since several threads back!!!

  105. Thomas B.

    Singleton can rebound and play defense. Looks like a great interior defensive player either straight up or as a weak side defender. He could be the rare combination of BPA and the palyer who fills a need. Naturally, Walsh won’t pick him if he is there.

  106. adrenaline98

    Singleton, 6’9 with a 3 point shot, EXCELLENT wing defender. Athletic. Take him if you want a future ‘lebron/wade’ ‘stopper’. Stopper also in quotes, because I don’t see anyone shutting those two down outside of father time.

  107. adrenaline98

    Thomas B.: Singleton can rebound and play defense. Looks like a great interior defensive player either straight up or as a weak side defender. He could be the rare combination of BPA and the palyer who fills a need. Naturally, Walsh won’t pick him if he is there.

    Haha

  108. adrenaline98

    I want Motiejunas/Shumpert/Singleton/Faried right now. Motie is my offensive weakness. Just, something about being 6’10-7′ with that skillset…maybe I am still secretly in love with Gallo. :\

    I’d be happy with either 3 or Faried.

    If we pick up someone like Brooks, ugh.

  109. Z-man

    The only guy that has dropped this far on DX mock draft is Singleton. we have lots to choose from. Don’t mess up, Donnie!!!

  110. daaarn

    Really don’t have a feeling with this draft. Haven’t had time/interest to do my homework this year, but I really hope the Knicks pick someone who can grab some rebounds

  111. adrenaline98

    BigBlueAL: Leonard being traded to Spurs foe George Hill apparently.

    Wow, so the spurs, apparently couldn’t move Parker + Jefferson, so they’re giving up on Hill.

  112. art vandelay

    For better (OR much WORSE, really)…Chad Ford was right in 2009 about the Knicks selecting Jordan Hill…let’s see if he is right about Singleton this year.

  113. Thomas B.

    All right gents, just one more pick to go then then we can start:
    1. A few cheers
    2. A lot of boos
    3. Pessimism followed by optimisms
    4. Ridiculous trade proposals
    5. Simultaneous calls for Walsh to return and cheers that he is gone
    6. “Isiah made the pick”
    7. Dolan sucks

  114. jon abbey

    OK, rooting for Singleton, I think, or maybe Shumpert.

    also Faried would be a no-lose situation, either he’s great and we’re all happy or he’s not and we could endlessly mock Berri and the Cock. :) I am not a believer there, I think he’s going to be a one-trick pony in rebounding, which would be OK if he was a great post defender also but I don’t think he is.

  115. BigBlueAL

    Hollinger just tweeted Singelton is by far the best player available right now to him.

  116. adrenaline98

    THCJ may just kill himself if they don’t take Faried. He’s been going for like, 2 months about him now. lol

  117. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    TS% .517

    WE ALREADY HAVE FIELDS FOR THE NEXT THREE YEARS. WHY DO WE NEED A LOW EFFICIENCY SG? FUCK.

  118. adrenaline98

    It isn’t bad. We get an athletic defender that can handle. He does need to work on his spot up and court vision.

  119. Thomas B.

    Lets all be careful with what we post. If this guy turns out to be okay all of these statements will be in a post next year.

    We did NOT draft Carl Landry you stupid….arrgh!!

  120. adrenaline98

    THCJ, he’s a scoring PG that plays defense. Looks like a bigger and more athletic version of TD. Needs to work on shot and ball distribution.

  121. daaarn

    I freely admit that I don’t know much about Shumpert but I don’t like that we drafted a guard. Here’s hoping we bought another pick later because I dont have a good feeling about this pick.

  122. Thomas B.

    Thomas B.:
    All right gents, just one more pick to go then then we can start:
    1. A few cheers
    2. A lot of boos
    3. Pessimism followed by optimisms
    4. Ridiculous trade proposals
    5. Simultaneous calls for Walsh to return and cheers that he is gone
    6. “Isiah made the pick”
    7. Dolan sucks

    Things are turning out just as I thought. I just need someone to pin this on Isiah Thomas.

  123. adrenaline98

    If Faried keeps falling a bit further, we buy a late 1st round pick and take him. YEA, FALL MORE FARIED.

  124. Z-man

    Well, I’m set up to be a punching bag here for the foreseeable future. I think it was a good pick. THCJ, his PAWS40 wasn’t terrible…

  125. Z

    Shumpert is a great pick. Perennial All Star. Possible Hall of Famer. You heard it here first.

    (yes Thomas, I’m playing the “future post game” here)

  126. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    IT’S NOT THAT THEY CHOSE A GUARD, IT’S THAT THEY CHOSE A GUARD WHO CAN’T SHOOT. THE “DEFENSIVE SPECIALIST” WAS THERE IN FARIED, WHO ALSO HAS A SKY-HIGH TS% AND IS ONE OF THE BEST REBOUNDERS IN NCAA HISTORY, NO MATTER HOW “SOFT” HIS CONFERENCE WAS. IT WAS A SHITTY PICK. SINGLETON WOULD HAVE BEEN A SHITTY PICK TOO, BECAUSE HE CAN BARELY SHOOT EITHER. YOU KNOW HOW MANY PLAYERS CAN BE “DEFENSIVE SPECIALISTS” IN THE NBA? WHY NOT JUST THROW MARDY COLLINS AND JARED JEFFRIES IN THE STARTING LINEUP? NOT MANY PLAYERS CAN BE “DEFENSIVE SPECIALISTS” WHILE POSTING A +.600 TS% AND LEADING THE NCAA IN REBOUNDING. JESUS CHRIST, IT’S NOT LIKE FARIED WAS PLAYING AGAINST D-III PLAYERS. IT’S STILL D-1A. TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE PICK. I CAN’T WAIT TO SEE HIM POST 12-15 REB/36 IN A BLAZERS UNI.

  127. BigBlueAL

    Berger just tweeted that if Shumpert wasnt there Knicks wouldve picked Faried and not Singleton. lol

  128. BigBlueAL

    The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    IT’S NOT THAT THEY CHOSE A GUARD, IT’S THAT THEY CHOSE A GUARD WHO CAN’T SHOOT. THE “DEFENSIVE SPECIALIST” WAS THERE IN FARIED, WHO ALSO HAS A SKY-HIGH TS% AND IS ONE OF THE BEST REBOUNDERS IN NCAA HISTORY, NO MATTER HOW “SOFT” HIS CONFERENCE WAS. IT WAS A SHITTY PICK. SINGLETON WOULD HAVE BEEN A SHITTY PICK TOO, BECAUSE HE CAN BARELY SHOOT EITHER. YOU KNOW HOW MANY PLAYERS CAN BE “DEFENSIVE SPECIALISTS” IN THE NBA? WHY NOT JUST THROW MARDY COLLINS AND JARED JEFFRIES IN THE STARTING LINEUP? NOT MANY PLAYERS CAN BE “DEFENSIVE SPECIALISTS” WHILE POSTING A +.600 TS% AND LEADING THE NCAA IN REBOUNDING. JESUS CHRIST, IT’S NOT LIKE FARIED WAS PLAYING AGAINST D-III PLAYERS. IT’S STILL D-1A. TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE PICK. I CAN’T WAIT TO SEE HIM POST 12-15 REB/36 IN A BLAZERS UNI.

    Caps lock is not your friend.

  129. Thomas B.

    Z:
    Shumpert is a great pick. Perennial All Star. Possible Hall of Famer. You heard it here first.

    (yes Thomas, I’m playing the “future post game” here)

    ROTFLMA!!

  130. adrenaline98

    WHOA. I’m starting to see something here…Late first round pick that we buy will turn into Selby because of Carmelo. Then THCJ can officially be a Brooklyn Nets fan. I don’t foresee Faried getting off Portland’s bench for more than 20 minutes a game between Batum, Oden, Aldridge and Camby…

  131. BigBlueAL

    Hoopsanalyst did like Shumpert for what its worth. I assume TD is real trade bait now.

  132. rohank

    If shumpert can play PG for reals, this is an amazing pick. He has great size for a PG

  133. jaylamerique

    lets see what happens next year when he plays. I remember the reaction after the fields pick. But we needed defensive help on the wing. we had no one that good cover a good pg or sg.

  134. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    WHO HERE WOULD CHOOSE MARDY COLLINS WITH THE #17 PICK? I’M SMOKING YOU OUT. WHERE ARE YOU? ARE YOU THERE, ISIAH?

  135. Z-man

    Calm down, THCJ. Shumpert is a good defensive player at a position where the Knicks have absolutely no depth and where the league is getting very strong. Look, Ted hated Chandler because he “couldn’t shoot” but he developed into a solid player for us before being traded. Why cant the same thing be true for Shumpert? He is by far the best overall athlete in the draft. He can absolutely play d. He worked out for the Knicks twice and apparently they liked what they saw.

  136. New Guy

    Speaking of melo, he seemed to punk the Knicks out on twitter. Sorry we didn’t draft selby, son. Get over I and act like a man

  137. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Uh, what? Hill for Kawhi Leonard? Looks like someone’s been reading up on WP/48.

  138. BigBlueAL

    New Guy:
    Speaking of melo, he seemed to punk the Knicks out on twitter.Sorry we didn’t draft selby, son.Get over I and act like a man

    Amar’e on the other hand pretended to love the pick lol.

  139. adrenaline98

    He’s a bigger, more athletic version of TD, that passes better. I’m sorry but TD is just a short SG. If Shumpert can learn to distribute just a little bit, he’d be fantastic for the Knicks. Good defense starts on the perimeter, and not only is he super athletic, he is KNOWN for his defense. There’s nothing wrong with the pick.

    I think most of us that have been following this knew the Knicks wouldn’t take Faried. Donnie is more traditional. Maybe if Vucevic or Markieff Morris was available, he would have taken him. There is still a lot of good talent on the board. If Faried keeps falling, he may just be a Knick.

    P.S. Indiana is officially the collector other teams’ backup PGs. TJ Ford, George Hill, Darren Collison.

  140. jon abbey

    what I don’t like is that this will seemingly keep Douglas as the backup PG and I think he’s better suited to SG. now we have three mediocre SGs (including Fields) and only Billups as a real distributing PG.

  141. d-mar

    C’mon guys, chill. How many of the picks between 10 and 20 are gonna end up being solid rotation players? 3? 4? We all know it’s pretty much a crap shoot, this sounds an awful like the uproar after the Landry Fields pick.

  142. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    How much do you think Brooklyn Nets season tickets will be during their first year?

  143. The Infamous Cdiggy

    So now we have TWO guards that can D-up on the perimeter? Maybe close out on 3-pt shooters? Tell me more…

  144. jaredrutledge

    y’all realize we just got a do-over of 2006, right? and we picked correctly? shumpert = rondo, singleton = balkman. write it down.

  145. Count Zero

    Sorry — but I don’t see how you pass on Singleton to take Shumpert…we always have to try and get cute.

  146. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    BigBlueAL:
    Mardy Collins wasnt half the athlete that Shumpert is.

    That may be, but it hasn’t meant anything for Shumpert’s shooting efficiency.

  147. massive

    Douglas, albeit in a short spurt, showed he could run the point. Add to the fact that he played injured all season, I think we’ll see a really good player next season. I’m happy with Douglas as our back-up PG.

  148. Thomas B.

    flossy:
    This dude can jump over Mardy Collins

    Wonderful. But there are two parts to a jump shot. He has the jump, where is the shot?

  149. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    I’d rather watch that than a capped out mess with “defensive specialists” and volume shooters for the next four years.

  150. adrenaline98

    The Infamous Cdiggy: So now we have TWO guards that can D-up on the perimeter? Maybe close out on 3-pt shooters? Tell me more…

    Exactly. Shumpert is a super athletic 6’6, with a 40″ vertical, that plays SOLID Defense, defensive specialist. He plays more defense than a Faried, who would be outmatched by both 5s and 3s. Faried is really a short 4 + rebounding (especially offensive) specialist. Both fill a need. Good defense always start on the perimeter. I say they got more athletic and a solid perimeter defender, which certainly fills needs. I think Walsh did good.

  151. BigBlueAL

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: That may be, but it hasn’t meant anything for Shumpert’s shooting efficiency.

    True, but Collins couldnt shoot and wasnt athletic. Shumpert by all accounts is a great defender and athlete. Players can learn to shoot better, they cant learn to be athletic.

  152. jon abbey

    our boy MK says on Twitter that Chicago’s #30 has been available to buy for a while. if it is just cash and not talent (as we have none to spare), break out the checkbook.

  153. ess-dog

    Was there really no trades available? This pick sucks. I agree with abbey. “What if” he develops this, “what if” he develops that… seriously, he’s not going to develop shit. He’s a bad player and there’s no guarantee he can even defend in a real league.

    To be fair, a lot of guys were off the board, but we should’ve went Faried. Or at least Singleton. I would’ve been happier with Darius Morris at 17. At least he’s a real point guard.

  154. Z-man

    Comparing Shumpert to Collins is a joke. Comparing Shumpert to TD is like comparing Chris Paul to Dwyane Wade. Shumpert is much bigger and stronger than TD, probably passes just as well, and doesn’t shoot as well. They are not remotely similar.

  155. adrenaline98

    Reinsdorf has always been about saving money and maximize profits. He would cut salary even during the Jordan years. We should buy it if Faried is available, or Selby, just because I want to see Ted join THCJ in caps lock mode.

  156. BigBlueAL

    Wolves trading Flynn and the guy they just drafted at 20 to Houston for Miller and the 23rd pick.

  157. jaylamerique

    The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    I’d rather watch that than a capped out mess with “defensive specialists” and volume shooters for the next four years.

    why do you think that Faried is a good defender. He played in a zone , so weve never seen his individual defensive skills

  158. Thomas B.

    To be clear I have been hard on Shumpert but it is not that I hate him, I just hate leaving Singleton on the board. Shumpert is a Knick now so go NY go NY go.

  159. adrenaline98

    I TOLD YOU, he doesn’t fit in Portland. He’s a bench player at best for them. They are deep as shit from 3-5. BUY A PICK KNICKS GODDAMNIT.

  160. BigBlueAL

    Whoa, all the mock drafts Id seen had Faried going to Portland and none had Nolan Smith in 1st round.

  161. Z-man

    ess-dog:
    Was there really no trades available?This pick sucks.I agree with abbey.“What if” he develops this, “what if” he develops that…seriously, he’s not going to develop shit.He’s a bad player and there’s no guarantee he can even defend in a real league.

    To be fair, a lot of guys were off the board, but we should’ve went Faried.Or at least Singleton.I would’ve been happier with Darius Morris at 17.At least he’s a real point guard.

    So long as you admit that your opinion has no more validity to it than those what defend this pick, I can understand your point.

  162. jaylamerique

    Z-man:
    We don’t need a forward.We don’t need a forward.We don’t need a forward.

    that is a very good point, size matters in the paint. Faired is a forward and not a center. that doesn’t help us with the stat being a 4 situation

  163. adrenaline98

    BigBlueAL: Sucks there will not be a Summer League this year.

    Sheridan was on earlier on ESPN Radio saying if they get it sorted out by the 30th, there still might be.

  164. jon abbey

    so Felton and Faried to Portland for Andre Miller and Nolan Smith. THCJ, Portland is going to be a very fun team to root for. just get League Pass and do that, life is too short, seriously. get out while you still can… :)

  165. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    adrenaline98:
    ess-dog, every player on the board has a WHAT IF, including Kyrie Irving.

    Are you saying that all players have equal probability of being a bust? This is about likelihood, not certainty.

    I might have a dollar in my pocket, or I might have an Authentic-and-Verified Golden Ticket to Willy Wonka’s Seemingly-Long-Idle Chocolate Factory Full of Treats and Candies in it. You don’t know for sure, but I can sure tell you which one is more likely.

  166. Jake S.

    I’m stuck on my computer in a foreign country, how did the crowd react to Shumpert? Not well I imagine.

  167. d-mar

    Man, I really hope Dolan buys a pick and we grab Selby. Would be a minimal risk, high possible reward proposition.

  168. jaylamerique

    BigBlueAL:
    Sucks there will not be a Summer League this year.

    i know that’s the saddest thing about the lockout. i love watching summer league

  169. Jim Cavan

    Jake S.:
    I’m stuck on my computer in a foreign country, how did the crowd react to Shumpert? Not well I imagine.

    You imagined correctly.

    FYI — new thread up everyone.

  170. BigBlueAL

    jon abbey:
    so Felton and Faried to Portland for Andre Miller and Nolan Smith. THCJ, Portland is going to be a very fun team to root for. just get League Pass and do that, life is too short, seriously. get out while you still can… :)

    From what Ive read the draft picks arent getting swapped.

  171. The Infamous Cdiggy

    17th pick, weak draft = what-if’s. Not quite the difficulty of, say, hitting a Mo Rivera cutter, but ya know what I’m saying…

    adrenaline98: Exactly. Shumpert is a super athletic 6’6, with a 40? vertical, that plays SOLID Defense, defensive specialist. He plays more defense than a Faried, who would be outmatched by both 5s and 3s. Faried is really a short 4 + rebounding (especially offensive) specialist. Both fill a need. Good defense always start on the perimeter. I say they got more athletic and a solid perimeter defender, which certainly fills needs. I think Walsh did good.

    Thanks. I like that’s he’s 6′ 6″. See if Ray Allen has such an easy look at a 3-ball with this dude closing out on him…

  172. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    If he’s as good at rebounding and dunking as everyone who knows anything about basketball knows he is going to be, I am going to add all over your e-faces with factorialism.

  173. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    If you’re wondering, I’m listening to “I Can’t Make You Love Me” by Bonnie Raitt and thinking of Jim Dolan. That’s how forlorn I am.

  174. adrenaline98

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: Are you saying that all players have equal probability of being a bust? This is about likelihood, not certainty. I might have a dollar in my pocket, or I might have an Authentic-and-Verified Golden Ticket to Willy Wonka’s Seemingly-Long-Idle Chocolate Factory Full of Treats and Candies in it. You don’t know for sure, but I can sure tell you which one is more likely.

    I’m sorry but Faried looks more like Malik Rose than Dennis Rodman. I think you’re taking this too hard. It’s not like they took a Selby. Like I said, they filled a need. Faried is really a short 4. If they didn’t have Stat, maybe they take a Faried. I like Faried too for the Knicks, but none of these guys are guaranteed, and certainly, none of them are off by as much as Willy Wonka and your dollar.

  175. adrenaline98

    They took Brooks as a replacement to Allen/Pierce? Man I hope they can buy a few picks. Dolan should just shell out 9 mil and buy Chicago’s and 2 early second rounders. We need bodies and potential.

  176. The Infamous Cdiggy

    As a side note, looks like the Wizards went retro and back to their old colors and similar unis. I’ve perused some blogs/posts and it seems their fans prefer the old look (and name) better.

  177. CRJoe

    adrenaline98:
    They took Brooks as a replacement to Allen/Pierce? Man I hope they can buy a few picks. Dolan should just shell out 9 mil and buy Chicago’s and 2 early second rounders. We need bodies and potential.

    What’s the point??? There are around 10 nba caliber guys in this draft… All of them went in either the lottery or Indiana’s lucky strike of Kawhi (whom they turned into George Hill, great deal), the rest of guys in this draft class are pure scrubs, why give other teams money on some random roster filler when we can sign some guys on a minimun deal a get a better production…

    And obviously I’m not thinking about the upside a late first rounder could have, but Norris Cole & Cory Joseph aren’t gonna get us closer to a ring than Ronnie Price or Mike Bibby; and get real Cory Joseph ain’t gonna be Rajon Rondo ever, the talent is just not there…

  178. adrenaline98

    Buying pics don’t cost the cap or anything. Dolan is worth billions. He never misses that money. Second round picks don’t get guaranteed contracts either, so they dont count towards the cap.

  179. Ted Nelson

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: Drafting based on athletic ability rather than statistics of previous play is a poor choice.

    Shumpert has strong RSB numbers…

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: YOU KNOW HOW MANY PLAYERS CAN BE “DEFENSIVE SPECIALISTS” IN THE NBA? WHY NOT JUST THROW MARDY COLLINS AND JARED JEFFRIES IN THE STARTING LINEUP?

    Come on… Those guys are not even good defenders and they are not just zeroes offensively but negatives. Shumpert has a chance to be a legitimately special defender and maybe can at least not be a negative offensively. Just because you wanted another player, doesn’t mean you have to be irrationally critical of the player they did take.

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