Knicks Morning News (2017.01.03)

  • [ESPN] Tuesday’s Knicks News: Poor defense remains a major issue
    (Tuesday, January 03, 2017 4:44:08 AM)

    Tuesday’s Knicks News: Poor defense remains a major issue

  • [ESPN] Hornacek up in arms over Knicks’ defense
    (Tuesday, January 03, 2017 12:08:31 AM)

    Hornacek up in arms over Knicks’ defense

  • [ESPN] Porzingis (Achilles) out, Melo in for Knicks
    (Monday, January 02, 2017 6:34:32 PM)

    Porzingis (Achilles) out, Melo in for Knicks

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks have no defense for fifth loss in row
    (Tuesday, January 03, 2017 12:24:02 AM)

    Jeff Hornacek’s challenge for all-out effort fell on deaf ears as the Knicks let the Orlando Magic get anything it wanted Monday night.

  • [NY Newsday] Carmelo Anthony’s shooting woes continue in Knicks’ loss to Magic
    (Monday, January 02, 2017 10:58:58 PM)

    The ball isn’t dropping for Carmelo Anthony. Not only is he missing three-pointers, he’s missing uncontested 15-footers, the sort of shots he once seemed capable of making with his eyes closed.

  • [NY Newsday] Kristaps Porzingis sits second game in row with sore Achilles
    (Monday, January 02, 2017 8:59:49 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis had some bounce in his step as he entered the locker room after a workout Monday, a sign that his Achilles was feeling better. But the Knicks decided to play it safe and keep their starting power forward out against Orlando.

  • [NYTimes] The Three N.B.A. Games to Watch This Week
    (Tuesday, January 03, 2017 6:01:38 AM)

    After a New Year’s Eve hangover, the league will be back in fighting shape with Oklahoma City at Houston on Thursday.

  • [NYTimes] In a New Year, Knicks Show the Same Defensive Problems
    (Tuesday, January 03, 2017 4:58:15 AM)

    Orlando scored 67 points in the first half, and the Knicks, with Kristaps Porzingis out and Carmelo Anthony among the starters nursing injuries, fell at home.

  • [NYDN] Knicks drop fifth straight game with embarrassing loss to Magic
    (Monday, January 02, 2017 8:39:47 PM)

    It’s already been a dreadful 2017 for the Knicks.

  • [NYDN] Caution is the correct route for Knicks with Porzingis’ Achilles
    (Monday, January 02, 2017 8:08:46 PM)

    Porzingis missed his second straight game on Monday against the Orlando Magic.

  • [SNY Knicks] Anthony, Knicks lose to Magic, 115-103
    (Monday, January 02, 2017 10:09:01 PM)

    The New York Knicks could not stop the Orlando Magic in a 115-103 loss Monday at Madison Square Garden.

  • [SNY Knicks] Porzingis out; Anthony, Lee, O’Quinn to play against Magic
    (Monday, January 02, 2017 5:49:49 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis will miss his second straight game tonight, while Carmelo Anthony, Courtney Lee, and Kyle O’Quinn will all return to action on Monday against Orlando.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks look to get back on track against Magic on Monday
    (Monday, January 02, 2017 4:10:54 PM)

    The Knicks will look to get back on track on Monday as they open up 2017 at Madison Square Garden against the Magic.

  • [NYPost] Kristaps Porzingis isn’t pleased with Knicks’ new plan for him
    (Monday, January 02, 2017 8:06:40 PM)

    There is nothing scarier than an Achilles problem for a big man. Just ask Patrick Ewing. But Kristaps Porzingis isn’t worried the soreness in his left Achilles hasn’t entirely gone away after visiting with a specialist Monday and sat out his second straight game during the Knicks’ 113-105 loss to the Magic. Porzingis started experiencing…

  • [NYPost] Jeff Hornacek rips Knicks as ‘not capable’ after fifth straight loss
    (Monday, January 02, 2017 5:08:02 PM)

    After arguably their worst loss of the season Monday, Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek lowered the boom, delivering his most damning assessment of his team’s defensive woes, admitting perhaps this roster is “not capable’’ of playing better defense. It used to be the Knicks couldn’t beat the winning teams. Now they can’t beat anybody and Hornacek’s…

  • [NYPost] Hornacek: Why Knicks bench has earned a minutes shake-up
    (Monday, January 02, 2017 4:36:31 PM)

    No disrespect to the starting lineup, but … Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek’s edict to cut the starters’ minutes is not only to keep players like Carmelo Anthony and Kristaps Porzingis fresh. The Knicks coach said he believes the bench has earned it and played so well since the beginning of training camp, there’s no reason…

  • 131 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.01.03)”

    I’m a little bit worried that Hornacek is losing the team. Not worried about the losses (stealth tank might be good), worried about the utter lack of willpower of this team.

    Lack of willpower = Lack of talent.

    I respect Hornacek for telling it like it is. He’s the least to blame for the mess the Knicks are in.

    Thankfully my DVR didn’t seem to want to watch the game either last night.

    I have to agree with Hornacek’s comments though – the only guys who close out hard on the 3 point line are Courtney Lee and Justin Holiday. Melo moves like he’s in molasses, Rose is a beat slow, and from my eye it’s not that guys are over-helping – it’s that they are half-helping, always caught in no-man’s land where they’re not close enough to actually do anything but foul, but far enough away from their own man that they can’t recover on a 3.

    lol at his comments about the coaches having to come together with a better defensive game plan though – wasn’t that the point of putting Rambis in charge of the D? so that it would just be one voice?

    anyway currently looking like the “realists” are in front right now.

    meanwhile on the Phil Jackson front and how it’s his plan to stay through this summer for the full 5 years — why isn’t anyone talking about Dolan and how he has the opportunity to opt out of Phil also?

    Lets be fair. Courtney Lee got torched in the first quarter. Jodie meeks had 14 points in the first 10 minutes.

    Ntilikina/Hart/Justin Jackson 2016

    That would actually be a pretty good one year reload–I think they’re all gonna be good in the NBA (with Ntilikina perhaps being great.)

    Also if Rambis becomes coach of his team again after a Hornacek firing I don’t think I can be held responsible for my subsequent actions

    A thought just came to mind…

    Would anybody here be ok with a trade for Rooster and a pick wherever (most likely a 3 teamer) if it meant losing Melo and maybe KOQ if such a trade ever became available?

    Lets be fair. Courtney Lee got torched in the first quarter. Jodie meeks had 14 points in the first 10 minutes

    Yes he did. But we can’t be “fair” to Lee in this case because a player with his rep should have NEVER been torched by Jodie Meeks. Even still, I can’t lay the blame at his feet. Scheme has alot to do with it, and it seems our Knicks have no scheme on defense. Maybe a scam..but no scheme

    meanwhile on the Phil Jackson front and how it’s his plan to stay through this summer for the full 5 years — why isn’t anyone talking about Dolan and how he has the opportunity to opt out of Phil also?

    Phil brought in “stars,” so he can’t be blamed. It must be the stars’ fault. I really do believe Dolan believes some sort of approximation of that belief. I don’t think Jax is in any danger of going anywhere unless he wants to, and since he just broke up with Buss, I don’t think he wants to.

    yeah, I think Phil has such a big rep that he only leaves if he wants to.

    I mean, look for how long Isiah was involved with this team based on name value alone.

    If Hornacek is losing the team, we need to get rid of the players he is losing, not the coach.

    Did anyone happen to see the play where Melo called a play for himself (dribble dribble dribble take a bad shot) and Hornacek got so pissed off he just turned around and walked away while the play was still in motion?

    Dear Mr Hornacek,

    Welcome to Mike D’Antoni’s world. All I can say is don’t worry. You can get another job with a legitimate star player that will listen to you and even put yourself back into the conversation for coach of the year once you get away from prima donnas like Melo and Kobe.

    All the best,

    Informed Knicks and Lakers fans.

    Would anybody here be ok with a trade for Rooster and a pick wherever (most likely a 3 teamer) if it meant losing Melo and maybe KOQ if such a trade ever became available?

    I would trade Melo for a bag of rocks. He’s not only a highly overrated mediocrity, he’s poison to the team.

    Why’s everyone so upset? Sure, the Knicks gave up 67 points in the first half, but only 48 in the second! Improvement!
    🙂
    But seriously, I still think that Phil is under pressure to make the playoffs this year or be canned by Dolan. If not flat out fired, he could be marginalized by taking away decision making from him, making him a figurehead.

    I missed most of the first half, but watched all of the second. I was really trying to pay attention to defense. We all know that Jennings gets wiped out on most screens. I do think that some guys are trying hard: Noah and Lee did seem to be. They bench guys seem to try. I think OQ tries hard but just has low BBIQ. KP tries hard when he’s in there. Lee got torched some, but I saw him busting his ass trying to follow guys running along 2 baseline screens, etc. late in the game.

    Rose and Melo are hot and cold. The help D on this team is atrocious. Some of it is effort, some of it is BBIQ. Breen and Clyde pretty much called out Melo last night. It has to start with him. He’s the supposed leader of the team, the “star,” and he stunk last night. Not just execution, but effort. The Knicks were defending 4 on 5 at times last night with Melo standing around in no man’s land.

    Hornacek should move him to the bench, but he won’t. Make him the 6th man coming in at the 4.

    I don’t know what happened to the team lately, but it seems the defense is getting worse, not better. Does anyone else have the same impression?

    We just lost to the 26th best 3 pt shooting team in the league, with their leading scorer out, because they shot 50% from 3, despite Aaron Gordon chucking up 3-10. I don’t blame Lee for Meek’s fast start. We started 2 guys who can’t score, and Melo who only wants to Iso. they moved the ball, we did not. BTW, how did Melo only have 1 TO? I saw at least 2, and I couldn’t bare to watch most of it.

    We just out-rebounded the Orlando magic, took 10 more FTs than them, and lost. how does that happen

    With every loss we get pushed further toward desperate measures… Dolan has a proven track record in these dark times.
    So long Kp!

    the most Knicksian thing ever would be if this team beats the Bucks and Melo scores like forty points

    Thank Dolan, not Phil Jackson, for the debacle.

    Unfortunately most fans have very short memories and are easily fooled. Nobody remembers how, when or why Phil Jackson landed in NY. Hint: his hire was annonuced exactly one day before an organized fan protest was scheduled at MSG. Yes, one day before.

    Dolan signed Jackson to a $60M contract (relative peanuts for a $3B business) and everybody forgot the march, everybody applauded the move, extolled the triangle’s magic and found deep meaning in every stupid thing coming out of Jackson’s mouth.

    Very few people realized Phil Jackson was just another big name sold to gullible fans to fuel their waning hope.

    And here we are, three years later, approaching the time for another big name, but always two consecutive wins away from fans forgetting how bad the team really is.

    Gone are the days of KOQ being a great player. Passimism (or is it reality) has taken control of the ‘optimists’” minds and the narrative begins to sound awfully similar to those of the last 20 years…

    I found Melo’s comments on Honacek’s concerns about effort on D to be utterly tone deaf, particularly since we all can see a lack of effort and an enormous number of open shots.
    It doesn’t matter whether it is the 33rd game or the 13th game, this team gives up way too many easy points.
    Melo is getting away from the game plan and should just shut up.

    KOQ is still the best player on our team and quite good but as much as it pains me at this point he should be traded for young assets and picks.

    @20. KOQ is going to net us young assets and picks? Doubtful. More than likely he’ll be used to trade for an over the hill veteran because we’re built to win now apparently.

    I think KOQ could bring us other types of assets back, like stashed euros or a low 1st rounder.

    nobody would trade real NBA talent for him, probably, or high picks, but he could be very useful for a contending team.

    i think thats something we have going for us, ‘players usefulk for other teams’ cuz they sure aint helping us;

    players on the list would be;
    rose, jennings, koq, kuz…pretty much everyone except kp(he wouldnt help anyone)

    KOQ is still the best player on our team and quite good but as much as it pains me at this point he should be traded for young assets and picks.

    KOQ is far from being the best player on the Knicks and, no, there is no fucking way in hell anyone in the NBA would trade him for “young assets and picks”…lol…not even Melo (who is, major warts and all, 100x better that KOQ will ever be) would fetch that much nowadays…

    KOQ is the new Cole Aldrich…the partial-data statistical star that does not pass the eye test…

    well, that’s the nature of complementary players, they have to have someone to complement

    Im taking the glass half full approach, at least we get to see Giannis twice this week instead of Jodie Meeks or Elfrid Payton

    well, that’s the nature of complementary players, they have to have someone to complement

    KOQ perfectly complements the rest of the bench players on one of the worst NBA benches.

    Present day KOQ is better than present day Melo. Both are still pretty shite tho.

    the Knicks bench is pretty far from being one of the worst in the league.

    they don’t score much (22nd in the league) but they are 9th in rebounding, 7th in assists, 12th in field goal percentage and 10th in defensive efficiency according to hoops stats…

    O’Quinn is a big part of that whether you think he’s good or not.

    he’s a good rebounder, a decent defender and can shoot efficiently when he doesn’t need to do much, which are all qualities that a contender would surely love to have as a backup big man.

    like I said before, I would be pretty happy with a stashed euro + a late 1st rounder.

    we could get like the 28th overall pick from San Antonio + Nikola Milutinovic, maybe.

    they have lee and dedmon on top of LMA and gasol… they aren’t going to give up a pick for koq….

    oquinn is pretty good and having himself a decent year… we have him for two more years after this at a bargain price… if we’re interested in winning he should be playing a lot more…

    i mean the best we could probably do is maybe getting sefolosha and there’s absolutely no way we should be doing that….

    that was just a hypothetical trade, I think the Knicks will not trade O’Quinn anyway.

    KOQ is the new Cole Aldrich and the same hand-picked stats will be used to prove how every single coach in the NBA (including Popovic) has been stupid enough to not recognize the hidden diamond.

    The Knicks bench is good. Probably better than the starters…lol…c’mon guys, where is the common sense?

    that’s the thing… aside from golden state and maybe the pelicans… everyone has a collection of ok big men that they’re already invested in… and so trying to pry away anything worthwhile is going to be pretty hard unless someone goes down with an injury…

    and even then you have to compete with the philly bigs, denver bigs, sac bigs and greg monroe that are also perpetually on the block…

    Just did a quick scan…

    I agree with anyone here who posts that if Jeffy is losing the team, the players that are getting lost are the ones that need to go…

    Jeffy has been our best coach since Van Gundy… I hope he continues to lament to the press and/or show his disgust during games… He’s been here a few months and can probably identify with most of us…

    There is no better way to lock in a defeat than how the Knicks play basketball when having to come from behind… no defense and iso offense…

    Phil Jackson has done a terrible job here. There’s no getting around it. He’s a poor GM and he really should step down. He is just not up to this job. This is a perfectly Knicksy team: lots of “name” players, lots of guys who are looking for theirs, poor team basketball, nonexistent defense. This is the same shit we’ve been watching for almost two decades now.

    I wonder how he’s going to deal with the failure. The man’s hubris is legendary, so expect some tinkering with the roster. God help us.

    The 4th year of O’Quinn’s deal is a player option for $4MM. We have him for the rest of this season and next.

    I agree with anyone here who posts that if Jeffy is losing the team, the players that are getting lost are the ones that need to go…

    I agree too. I wish Hornacek was given carte blanche to do whatever he effing wants with the players. I don’t think he’s the one who decided to start Sasha two games, I don’t think he’s the one who chooses Lance over Kuz etc.

    I’m not saying we would win more games, but at least we wouldn’t be playing KP that much and might see more youngsters on the floor trying to develop. I mean, what’s the point of playing Melo for 35+ mins when he can’t defend? Not blaming Melo for everything but really, we can’t afford to lose that many development minutes searching for wins. I thought we were an 8th seed but if we are not, it’s certainly for the best.

    Thanks Pythagoras, no thanks Phil

    KOQ is the new Cole Aldrich and the same hand-picked stats will be used to prove how every single coach in the NBA (including Popovic) has been stupid enough to not recognize the hidden diamond.

    O’Quinn is a pretty good player on a great contract. Not sure how that’s controversial, but something subjective 8th man good team something something.

    I think Cleveland or GS would be very interested in KOQ.

    Cleveland could give us their 1st rounder + a 2nd rounder or felder.

    We could do a multi player swap with GS with something like KOQ + LT for Pat McCaw and Iggy and a 2nd or something.

    idk this is just spitballing.

    they don’t score much (22nd in the league) but they are 9th in rebounding, 7th in assists, 12th in field goal percentage and 10th in defensive efficiency according to hoops stats…

    O’Quinn is a big part of that whether you think he’s good or not.

    he’s a good rebounder, a decent defender and can shoot efficiently when he doesn’t need to do much, which are all qualities that a contender would surely love to have as a backup big man.

    eyeballs buddy.

    KOQ is a nice bench player, but as has been noted here he is only on his cheap contract for one more season beyond this one. There’s only so much value you’re going to get in return for 1.5 seasons of Kyle O’Quinn.

    I think KOQ would be interesting for quite a few teams, thing is, what do we want? I’d prefer two second rounders to a late first. And maybe a euro stash, like Sergio Llull.

    Then again, the Cavs got two low firsts for 1.5 seasons of cheapo Mozgov. I’m not sure Mozgov was substantially better then than O’Quinn is now.

    I’d settle for a trade involving one between Looney and McCaw and a 2020 first. Anyway not happening soon. As I already said, nobody trades anyone anymore in the NBA

    And don’t mind my ramblings, I just like to talk about imaginary trades (not involving KP though please)

    I would hate to see Hornacek get fired in the middle of the season and I hope he stays, he’s certainly not the issue.

    modern day Steve Francis and Melo are the issues.

    where are reub and er today?

    Yeah, dont know if you noticed i dont really post much here anymore. It is what it is. And this has been since before this losing streak.

    Thanks for the concern.

    Man, that Noah contract. Good gravy what an awful, hideous contract that is. I would make dumping that thing job #1 if I ran this team. That and telling Melo that the writing is on the wall and that a full rebuild is happening so he should start consider waiving the NTC.

    I know how this will sound, but the Knick record is still better than my preseason predictions (by 1 game). I have them losing to Milwaukee and then beating Chicago. away.

    Here’s what I’ve noticed. There are numerous plays where nobody is within 10 feet of 3-point shooters. It’s mind-boggling. It’s not even double screens and switches. Our guys simply have no clue where to be. And when they’re guarding man-on-man, they give their man too much room. Opponents are simply comfortable.

    Here’s the real issue, WTF is Rambis doing with this defense? He was tasked with the job and is failing. We all knew that Rambis (forced down Horacek’s throat) sucks as a coach. Was he even a good defender?

    @46
    why do the clippers do that trade, they want blake and melo for a post season run

    Ive been on team optimists from day one but no lie these 5 losses have me shook. Its eerily similar to last year. 500ish team falls apart when an injury happens. This time it feels like this all started with Rose’s back spasms and that western road trip. The 2 wins against the pacers and magic at home were mirages. Something happened with the team, the coach, Melo, or something that has caused some bad mojo in the locker room. I don’t know what it is.

    So I have to say…blow the shit up. And that starts with Melo. Thing is you gotta think at this point he would want out to go to say The Clippers. They seem to be the best option. Him and CP3 are tight. Its in LA. They are right below The Warriors and Cavs as far as competing and they’ve had the same core for awhile but haven’t gotten over the hump. Seems a deal with them and another team could get us some expiring contracts (or say 2 year contracts) and some draft picks.

    Rose expires this year. Lee is tradeable. That really just leaves Noah who I have to say is playing better. So hold on to Noah (for now). Look to trade Melo and Lee (and Lance), get some draft picks back and let Rose expire. Maybe they aren’t lottery picks but we could tank the rest of the season to get a higher pick and maybe trade some picks to move up as well.

    But I’m sorry. Ive defended Melo for years but dude just doesn’t put in the effort on defense and too many games he takes things personally and gets tunnel vision. I’ve always maintained Melo works best with a veteran pg who can set him up. I think that is why he had success with Billups, old man Kidd and on the olympics. Rose was a decent attempt but he’s not a pass first, high assist PG type. He’s a combo score first PG. Melo needs a CP3 type to get the best out of him and to minimize his bad behavior. Its time we moved on.

    The thing is for all the bitching about how bad PJ is, if he made a Melo trade for picks and let’s Rose walk, we could be in decent shape…

    someone suggested melo for crawford and rivers and 1sts…thats the most viable trade and it sux for us to have to take back crawford

    I’d take back about 50% of what I’ve said about Phil if he traded Melo, one of Noah/Lee/Lance, and let Rose walk

    I think the Clippers is a no-no unless they give up completely on Blake… then if that happens, I could definitely see a 3-way trade involving the Knicks and the Celtics to get Blake to Boston and Melo to the Clippers.

    otherwise, their only tradeable contracts are Austin Rivers and Jamal Crawford, who no one in their right minds will take, J.J Redick, which makes absolutely no sense for the Clippers to trade, and a lot of pretty useless veterans.

    Every loss brings the Knicks organization and its fans closer to accepting its ultimate reality – that this Knicks squad is a pumped up lottery team. The FO should tell the coaches to sit KP down this game too so he can fully heal his Achilles and take a breather. There is no point to aggravate his injury and risk his long-term health so that overpaid washed ups like Melo and Rose can dog it out there on the court while he busts his ass for 35 minutes on the court to cover their asses.

    Last night’s game was the only one in the last five that we should have won on paper, and we didn’t have Kristaps and they hit a bunch of 3’s. The Knicks are the same mediocre team we were a few weeks ago.

    And Melo might be hurt-traditionally he has these stretches where he plays through a nagging injury and kinda sucks only he’s older now so kinda sucky Melo is pretty bad.

    @66

    Absolutely, but it’s not like they hit a bunch of contested threes. So something has to be said about an already middling defense completely falling off a cliff.

    I think the “hitting a bunch of 3’s” thing is started to become a pattern, rather than an anomaly…

    we’re a 30-38 win team and we’re playing like one

    Ive been on team optimists from day one but no lie these 5 losses have me shook. Its eerily similar to last year. 500ish team falls apart when an injury happens. This time it feels like this all started with Rose’s back spasms and that western road trip. The 2 wins against the pacers and magic at home were mirages. Something happened with the team, the coach, Melo, or something that has caused some bad mojo in the locker room. I don’t know what it is.


    define: regression to mean

    The Pelicans at home should probably beat the Knicks more often than not. They’re .500 at home and are more healthy than they’ve been most of the year. We’re 5-12 on the road.

    If anyone needs to understand why we have to draft a defensive stud at PG like Frank Ntilikina this stat should do it for you:

    Rose’s defensive real plus-minus rating this year has him at 71st in the league for point guards, which is somehow slightly worse than the other Knicks guard, Brandon Jennings, who comes in at 67th.

    #71

    If a playoff contender can’t beat the Pelicans at home, they’re not very good. So either you expect to believe we aren’t good and shouldn’t beat them at home, or you expect me to believe we are good and lost a game we should have won. I can accept either interpretation, but I cannot accept both.

    sefolosha in the last year, y for a rental?

    Sefolosha would probably fight to not come to NYC, given his problems with the NYPD (the cops broke his leg) and his recent altercation with Melo.

    Then again, the Cavs got two low firsts for 1.5 seasons of cheapo Mozgov. I’m not sure Mozgov was substantially better then than O’Quinn is now.

    Yes, he wasn’t substantially better than Oaq is now, but I think he fitted their roster better (they lacked a true 7-foot center with rim-protection ability). Plus, the Cavs were desperate then, in a way they are not right now, since they already got their championship. I can see them trading for O’Quinn, but not for two 1st round picks whatsoever, even if these are low picks.

    They ridiculed us when we hated the Bargnani trade. They mocked us when we hated the Mega Max Melo contract. They called us nattering nabobs when we were against the Rose signing. They tried to tell us the Noah signing would turn us into winners. They even told us that Pythag W-L is bullshit and that the Knicks weren’t going to regress to the mean.

    Yet Team Reality stands strong through all the bullshit, fighting for truth and justice, slaying the delusional fanbois year after the year. Team Reality is the Spurs of Knickerblogger. Team Optimism is the Knicks of Knickerblogger.

    Stealth Tank Update:

    We are only 2 wins ahead of the 8th pick in the draft where players such as Giles, Fox, Ntilinka, and Bridges may be available!

    Id be pretty glad to be the Spurs in any situation

    at least there’s no ruruland anymore to tell me i’m not a knicks fan

    and ras, this list should also be exhibit A on why Chris Paul is still insanely amazing lol
    even if the metric is somehow complicated and not super duper reliable, the fact that he is so much ahead of everyone else is insane

    If a playoff contender can’t beat the Pelicans at home, they’re not very good. So either you expect to believe we aren’t good and shouldn’t beat them at home, or you expect me to believe we are good and lost a game we should have won. I can accept either interpretation, but I cannot accept both.

    We’re pretty average, probably a bit worse, so while we could beat the Pelicans at home, it’s not an upset that we didn’t.

    I think the Knicks are firmly below average. The offense was doing okay for a while because a bunch of guys had unsustainably high eFG%, but that has come back down to earth rapidly. Right now this is probably like the #20 offense and #25 defense in terms of real on-court performance. They’re 2-8 in their last 10. Trend line is no bueno.

    LOL. Does anyone know who is 12th in defensive real plus-minus rating this year among PGs? Its going to hurt some of you so I will link the page. Even #13 stings a little bit.

    I was curious so I looked up Robin Lopez and Noah on this same page. Noah comes in at #20 for Centers on RPM. Rolo? 63rd.

    It’s becoming pretty clear that Melo (currently 20th in RPM among small forwards) and Joakim Noah (20th among Cs) on big money is a pretty big structural issue for the team going forward. It’s really, really hard to pay two guys who are average starters at their position big money and still find a way to be a really good team – and those guys are in all likelihood going to continue getting worse. Even if we somehow pulled off the coup of coups (and what I believe is Phil’s Plan A) and got Paul, it no longer appears to me that it would make us a real contender. It would be fun to watch Paul and Porzingis team up for as long as CP remains dominant, but the rest of the roster just isn’t strong enough.

    If Phil is still looking at the long-term at all and realistically assesses this team he’ll be working the phones hard up to the deadline. Part of me wonders if it isn’t already too late to get much of a return for Melo. Given that his NTC is likely to make it a one or two bidder scenario and his level of play this year I feel like we’d be hard rpessed to extract too much value, but we should at least try. I’d gladly send Noah out, but I don’t think there’s many obvious buyers for bigs, let alone kinda washed up bigs on ugly multi-year contracts.

    The offense stalls because guys have reverted to stopping the ball instead of passing it around. I wish Horny could implement a 3 second hot potato rule in half court sets of either shooting or passing the ball. Anyone who holds onto the ball for longer gets benched.

    Phil doesn’t have the creativity, vision or smarts to succeed as an NBA GM. He just sucks at this job. I’m not holding my breath in anticipation of his dumb ass finally realizing he needs to abandon the “win now” strategy.

    Heh, funny thing is the optimists go ghost a lot more than the pessimists. Wonder what er and swiftandabundant are up to these days.

    In the 13 years since this blog was founded the Knicks have had exactly 3 winning seasons. Based on that alone you’d expect the pessimists to be crushing it…

    They ridiculed us when we hated the Bargnani trade. They mocked us when we hated the Mega Max Melo contract. They called us nattering nabobs when we were against the Rose signing. They tried to tell us the Noah signing would turn us into winners. They even told us that Pythag W-L is bullshit and that the Knicks weren’t going to regress to the mean.

    Yet Team Reality stands strong through all the bullshit, fighting for truth and justice, slaying the delusional fanbois year after the year. Team Reality is the Spurs of Knickerblogger. Team Optimism is the Knicks of Knickerblogger.

    point well taken jk…you would think after so many seasons of same story, different year every one of us would have given up any hope at digging out of this abyss…

    every year i keep lowering my expectations just a little further…i guess i should be ecstatic that we’re only 2 games below .500…but, even that comes with poop for a cloud lining…the closer we are to .500 hurts us more in trying to draft someone whom can help us out of this hole…

    to end on a positive note – at least were not nets fans right now…

    my issue is not even with the long term future per se, I’m sure the Knicks will find a way to screw that no matter the circumstances, what pisses me off is that the Knicks are only going to find real NBA talent if they somehow stealth tank and get lucky in the draft like with Porzingis, and the fact that this team will win almost half their games on this half assed attempt to be good is killing that only chance to luck out into a contender

    I am optimistic that we will get a nice lottery pick this year. Also we could unintentionally tank the next two years during the continued Melo/Lee/Noah decline.

    even the instagram comments are calling Melo out

    which basically means the Knicks will fire Hornacek

    Eh if we’re being fair Melo called for a screen and O’quinn seemed to blank out on the play. 95% sure it would’ve still ended up with a fade away jumper but still….

    i think phil deserves at least some credit…. he’s made some really bad decisions but i think a better gm only puts us in a marginally better situation..

    we have one starting salary slot remaining and we have to hope lee can hold it together for as long as we can groom his eventual replacement…. but we will be in decent shape if we are able to land a decent pg this offseason and/or hit on this next draft pick…. that is why missing the playoffs will be the best thing to happen to us this season….

    the biggest question to solve our long term woes were always tied to our draft picks… kp answered the call… and we made a decent hit with wily also…. those counted more than anything…

    Unfortunately most fans have very short memories and are easily fooled. Nobody remembers how, when or why Phil Jackson landed in NY. Hint: his hire was annonuced exactly one day before an organized fan protest was scheduled at MSG. Yes, one day before.

    Dolan signed Jackson to a $60M contract (relative peanuts for a $3B business) and everybody forgot the march, everybody applauded the move, extolled the triangle’s magic and found deep meaning in every stupid thing coming out of Jackson’s mouth.

    Very few people realized Phil Jackson was just another big name sold to gullible fans to fuel their waning hope.

    +1!! And then some!
    Very rarely do I agree with Theo to the letter. But that there? I agree word for word note for not..I cosign! Preach! Woooooooo chuuch! Right on the nail Theo, right-on-the-friggin-nail!

    It’s pointless to cry over spilled milk…but I think it was pretty ominous when Rambis was forced on Hornacek but still given “near autonomy” when it came to the offense. Smells alot like sabotage souffle. Any GM in his right mind wouldn’t have done this. Any coach not desperate for a second chance, one in a big market to boot, wouldn’t have accepted it. Luke Walton and his Dad can say what they want. Luke didn’t spurn us for better opportunity regarding acquiring talent. He knew that the atmosphere would grow increasingly toxic for sound basketball when you add Phil’s stubbornness to Dolan’s air. At first, I was in denial..hopeful even..that it wasn’t true. And though I am still hopeful the guys can turn the season around, it is painfully evident that Phil has made some shockingly bad gambles given his basketball acumen

    And Embiid gets another Rookie of the Month award?

    Here’s how that presser should read:

    “Joel Embiid scored a lot of points this month. Lots of points. Points points points and points. And when points would points, he’d points all the way to a victory of points. Many points and points were points so that our team could points a points over all of the other points scored by the other team. I love points and I think that points points for Joel so that points can points all to the points points and the points. Points points points points points points points points. Points. Thank you.”

    It’s been a pretty poor year from the rookies so I can’t be mad at Embiid winning Rookie of the Month.

    Embiid has a turnover problem, but are you seriously implying he doesn’t provide anything besides points? Really..?

    Team Reality is the Spurs of Knickerblogger. Team Optimism is the Knicks of Knickerblogger.

    Comment of the year. We can go ahead and just skip to 2018 now.

    Eh if we’re being fair Melo called for a screen and O’quinn seemed to blank out on the play. 95% sure it would’ve still ended up with a fade away jumper but still….

    Agreed. The play falls apart and Horny is obviously frustrated, but concluding that it’s Melo he’s frustrated with is putting your own emotions into it in my opinion. Could be he’s frustrated at O’Quinn (who I agree it looks like was supposed to set a screen)…or he could be frustrated that somebody we can’t even see in that video was supposed to cut on the backside. The fact that the video is focusing right on Melo with Horny in the background makes it look a certain way, but that’s just happenstance. We have enough problems without inventing a beef between our “star” and coach.

    just checked espn team defense stats…was a little surprised to see we don’t have the worst defense in the league…seems we’re only really horrendous at giving up lots of points and free throws…that’s a bit of a glass half full situation there…maybe…

    Embiid is leading the league in blocked shots per 36 and while he’s not been an amazing rebounder or super mega efficient scorer, he’s pretty decent in both stats.

    “We’re only bad at giving up points”

    Other than that it’s a kickass defense.

    see, a little infusion of joy and optimism back in knickerblogger land…

    oh god…it’s only gonna get worse…

    finally figured out how to order nba league pass and watch it on the ps4 (fios is currently falling apart as the service bounces from one service provider to the next)…actually pretty good deal – just to watch knick games (i couldn’t care less about any one else’s team) – is only $99…not bad – definitely doable…only problem is – other than watching KP do his thing – my motivation for actually tuning in and watching knick games is at somewhat of a season low…

    i do feel slightly guilty at times for not sharing in some of the pain and suffering other loyal knickerbloggers experience…but, i just don’t know if i have that much masochism in my body…

    Maybe reub is gone for good!

    Reub was admitted to Elmhurst Hospital with chest pains and anal palpitations after the third quarter of the loss to the Orlando Magic.

    We pray for his prompt recovery.

    Hornacek said, “I think they’re trying. We just must not be good at defense”

    *insert Samuel Jackson MF face from Pulp Fiction here*
    I agree that the team hasn’t been good or anywhere near it on defense. But, if you have a sound system to rely on, you don’t need a bunch of guys who are great individual defenders. I know our best defenders are Noah, Lee, Thomas- and to a lesser extent Holiday, KP, and KOQ. They’re not all NBA Defense types, but it’s enough to build a sound defensive strategy on. The only teams that I think have truly great individual defenders are Cleveland, GS, SA, Memphis, NO, and maybe LAC, Milwaukee, OKC, Atlanta, and Miami. In most of those cases, their great defenders are also their best players- which sucks for our Knicks because Melo is our best player. But the point is, we don’t have a sound scheme for guys to buy into on defense. Hornacek is losing me with the “we have to get someone who can play defense” talk. The guy that was forced upon Hornacek is also our defacto defensive coordinator. If we wanna place the blame anywhere it should first fall on Phil and Rambis. Who knows if Hornacek would have been able to hire a better defensive coach if given the opportunity? But I would have liked to have seen him try.

    If you really look at it, the team’s biggest impediments this season happen to be Phil’s stubbornness, and things that were forced on Hornacek by Phil. I’m talking about the NTC which severely limits trade options because the best teams really have no awful contracts to match salaries with- and Rambis’ inclusion on the staff. It’s not too late for Dolan to get fed up and clean house but retain Hornacek and the folks he hired. I hate pointing the finger, but Phil and Rambis are turning out to be more of a problem than I anticipated, considering I was highly optimistic at the beginning of the season.

    Thanks. We’re not as bad as some, but even Philly is better at defenseless

    Embiid is leading the league in blocked shots per 36 and while he’s not been an amazing rebounder or super mega efficient scorer, he’s pretty decent in both stats.

    k

    http://bkref.com/tiny/D2Pci

    What do you notice about the vast majority at the top of this list?

    (Hint: They play point guard.)

    If the Knicks suck, I’m cool with it. That’s a high draft pick and a trade that nets us another pick.

    If the Knicks are good, I’m cool with it. We can draft Luke Kennard and hopefully Shamorie Ponds jumps to the league and we can draft him too.

    I think the Knicks will bounce back but if they don’t I’m cool. I have more faith in Clarence Gaines than anything else on the team.

    Chad Ford has us taking OG Anunoby 12th(which is pretty meaningless but whatevs).

    Heres an article about him https://theringer.com/og-anunoby-hype-killer-a90bda92fced#.mtrcap8if

    Indiana lists him at 6-foot-8 and 235 pounds with a purported 7-foot-6 wingspan, numbers which essentially break the DraftExpress physical measurements database. There are 10 players listed on DraftExpress with arms as long as Anunoby. They are all at least 7 feet tall, and they all play center. None of them play out on the perimeter.

    i really like og… his shot will need to be tweaked but he’s ahead in some areas to both kawhi leonard who he compares physically with .. and oladipo…. another raw IU guy who improved greatly every year…

    basically he’s one of the super sf’s in this draft who’s probably going to be playing both 3 and 4 in the pros… i’d rather draft a pg but he’s not a bad player at all…

    I think Frank Ntilikina should be available for the Knicks wherever we end up picking so long as it’s no higher than say 19. He’s the 5th rated PG on the big board behind Fultz, Ball, Smith, and Fox and that’s going to hurt his draft positioning considering that all of those guys have been playing great ball on D1 basketball teams. He hasn’t been the most productive guy on his pro club, either. I’m certain he slips. The last time it was a strong PG year (2009), Jrue Holiday, Ty Lawson, and Jeff Teague all slipped to outside of the lottery.

    How awesome would it be to trade O’Quinn for a pick that turns into Kennard and then we still nab Ntilikina? Ntilikina, Kennard (who I am convinced is the second coming of Manu Ginobili), Hernangomez and Porzingis would be an excellent corps going forward. The way things are looking, Ntilikina will be taken after Kennard.

    @113

    except Cousins, who sucks.

    yeah, Embiid has a gigantic turnover problem and it makes him much less valuable, but he’s still an elite shot blocker and a decent rebounder… probably not a good scorer since he wastes so many possessions, I agree.

    I don’t think his turnovers on offense completely erase his impact defensively, and it’s his first season.

    Haven’t personally looked into many draft big boards so far, but it seems (barring a sleeper who drops) that most franchise changing PG’s will be gone very early in a SF heavy draft. That said, assuming we will potentially draft around the pick 15 mark (I could be hedging my bets with where we pick, but we really are middle of the pack league wide IMO), do we take best PG available or simply best player available? After Ntilikina it looks very thin PG wise, and a couple boards have him going between 9 and 12; so who is next?

    also, Jowles, Embiid has a 18.7 TOV%

    Dikembe Mutombo had 18.8 in his rookie season
    Marc Gasol had 16.6
    Dwight Howard 16.1
    Shaquille O’Neal 15.9
    Tim Duncan 15.7

    all of these guys had lower usage rates then Embiid has right now.

    Embiid also has a 7.9 blk%, which would be the best mark ever, ahead of Tree Rollins (7.2).

    so yeah, it’s not that huge of a deal to be honest.

    #118

    I think Ntlikina is getting picked higher than this. People don’t look at raw stats with young Euros. He projects to have too much upside but I’d be ecstatic if we managed to get him and Kennard on our team.

    @122

    disregard that stat, I messed up the filters in basketball reference, and Manute and Eaton had better marks in their rookie seasons.

    still, it’s the 3rd best mark ever for a rookie.

    Last night’s game was the only one in the last five that we should have won on paper, and we didn’t have Kristaps and they hit a bunch of 3’s. The Knicks are the same mediocre team we were a few weeks ago.

    Agreed. It’s amazing to watch the optimists panic and the pessimists pound their chests. A stretch of a few games means as little when losing as when winning. We’re still around a .500 team. Nothing has changed. Noah has gotten better, Melo has played worse, O’Quinn has regressed a little, the team has really missed Lee during a few of those games. Not having Porzingis hurts, too, obviously. But no one has season-ending injuries, and unless that happens we’re gonna be where we thought we would be.

    I don’t know if I’m “Team Optimist,” but I saw 43 wins and still do. More than a month ago I predicted we’d be .500 come mid-January. But the reactionary pessimists are revising down now just as the reactionary optimists were revising up two weeks ago. NOTHING HAS CHANGED. No reason to panic, just as there was no reason to jump for joy.

    @125

    We are a bi-polar bunch here.

    Seriously though: lots of ebbs and flows in an 82 game season, so no reason to expect there won’t be a couple hot and cold streaks. Juts need a few more hot streaks!

    well the pg’s in this draft do happen to be really good players… fox and smith are sort of similar but both are ahead of all the past pg prospects aside from wall, irving and curry…. that list includes guys like lillard, mudiay, smart and bledsoe…. if it isn’t one of the top sf’s who are even a better class of players… then the pg’s are the next best….

    i’m not sold on ntilikina but after him it’s shamorie ponds although not clear if he decides to come out if he’s just a 2nd rder…. he has a good shot at being a 1st…

    @125

    Totally agree. The Knicks have hit a combo of bad injury luck starting in that west coast trip with Derrick Rose, Lee, KP,Melo (when not getting ejected) and just some horrid D. It should even out with some health. They have to do something radical on Defense tho. Some kind of zone or something. It’s definitely not looking like a 50 win bunch with this D. We will see

    The difference is that there’s no Pythag to progress to, only one to regress to. So it’s more likely that we regress rather than tread water or improve–especially when you consider that much of our success in the early season was primarily due to KP having a TS% over 60

    We may right the ship, but this team looks seriously, seriously flawed, I think more pain is coming our way (and I hope it does, for the greater good of the franchise.)

    But the reactionary pessimists are revising down now just as the reactionary optimists were revising up two weeks ago.

    lol no?

    In the first week of December, Team Cynical (because that’s more apt) said, “This is not a >.500 team long-term because their EWL sucks and they’re far outperforming it.”

    Team Optimist said that EWL was a load of bullshit and/or we couldn’t trust it because this Knicks team is way different and the Knicks are special and the Knicks are good. No one’s revising shit on this side. The Knicks are not good and will continue to be not good. I hope Kristaps becomes good again because he has been quite not good and I want him to eventually be good. Also I hope Carmelo is good instead of not good and gets traded for being good enough but still not good and the Knicks get very good picks instead of having fewer good picks instead of not having many picks, which is typically not good as the not good Knicks have shown over many years of being not good.

    Some of us are realists (Silky, DRed, et al.) and some of us are cynical (me, thenoble, JK47 et al.) and some of us wanted to draft Josh Selby and said that James Harden wasn’t a franchise-level player(jon abbey). Only Theo qualifies as a pessimist, because he is an unsufferable little man.

    Remember how douchey it was when Rose had, like, two very good games in a row and we got a thread filled with mocking people’s negative quotes about the Derrick Rose trade?

    There’s no need to do the opposite when the Knicks look bad. There’s really no need to give other posters’ shit over stuff like this period.

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