SNY.com: Who (realistically) will be the next head coach?

Ian Begley continues to kick ass, even when there is no team to cover actively, with a fun mailbag where he makes his pick for who the most realistic pick is for the Knicks next coach:

@Jdazz6: I would like to know if the Knicks do not retain Coach Miller, who’s the most realistic replacement as coach? And of those options, who would be the best at developing these young players?

The most realistic replacement at coach is a tough one to answer. I’d think that the Knicks could get any of the following coaches if money isn’t a mitigating factor: Tom Thibodeau, Kenny Atkinson, Mark Jackson, Jeff Van Gundy, Mike Woodson. Usually, money isn’t a holdup when the Knicks are pursuing a coach. Steve Kerr is one recent exception to that rule.

Also, I see John Calipari as a less realistic option because of the money it would likely take to lure him from Kentucky. He’s also publicly said he’s not interested in the job. But because of his relationship with Knicks president Leon Rose, I’m not taking him off of my list of candidates until Rose hires someone else.

With regards to player development, Atkinson and Thibodeau have the most recent track records of success. Woodson, Jackson and Van Gundy all have their own player development success stories. But if the Knicks are looking for the most proven commodity from a player-development perspective, you’d think Atkinson is at the top of the list.

Player development will certainly be an important factor for New York, but I’d be surprised if that was the sole determining factor in the club’s search (assuming they don’t retain Miller as head coach).

Also, it’s important to have a head coach with a track record of player development. But it’s just as important — if not more important — to have assistants and staffers who excel in that area. They are the people who deal with it on a granular level day in and day out.

Soooo….I thiiiiiiink he’s saying Thibs is the most likely pick, right?

Atkinson would be it if player development was their main goal, but since he thinks it isn’t, then Thibs is probably the guy.

The rest of the mailbag is a fine read, as well.

Liked it? Take a second to support Brian Cronin on Patreon!

170 thoughts to “SNY.com: Who (realistically) will be the next head coach?”

  1. I would bet big money that it’s an ex-player who doesn’t understand the concept of a 2-for-1. Not just ignores it, but actually cannot understand it.

  2. Can any top college guy be had? That would be the best way for Rose to get a big name AND a developmental guy in one package. Maybe he’ll back up the money truck to coach K’s house?

  3. Hubert: Yeah, I do. I also read a lot of what you wrote in this thread and it supports what I originally thought of you.

    You and bobn are birds of a feather, hypocrites and assholes through and through, especially on the topic of race.

  4. Reposted since A new thread is up.

    Can we please talk basketball? Hubert, thanks for posting that. I found it interesting that ESPN seems to assume the Knicks will draft for need instead of best player available. It’s not like any point guard drafted sixth in a weak draft will contribute right away. So if we’re drafting by need why not try for someone who can shoot. That was probably our biggest weakness this year.

  5. I sure would like to have someone on the team who could shoot. It’s been a while since the Knicks actually had a good shooter on the team.

  6. No problem, man. I’ll repost it here, too. I don’t know this Pritchard kid but he sounds nice.

  7. ess-dog:
    Anyone have access to ESPN’s new mock draft? Curious who Givony/Schmitz like…

    It’s an interesting one. And it’s full of mistakes like picking one player and describing another. Maybe their editor has corona.

    Anthony Edwards #1 to GS

    Wiseman #2 to the Cavs, with the caveat that they might want to trade down.

    Isaac Okoro at #3 to Atlanta, which they admit is drafting for team fit not BPA.

    Lamelo at #4 to the Wolves.

    And right about now is the first time I realized that we rose so high in the standings. Thanks, Mike Miller.

    Onyeka Okongwu to the Pistons at #5.

    Deni Avdija for the Knicks at #6:

    None of the players the Knicks started at point guard this season has emerged as a long-term solution, which could cause them to look to the draft to find a franchise playmaker. Although Ball’s compatibility with RJ Barrett might look questionable, the Knicks aren’t in a position to pass up on arguably the most talented player in the draft.

    Should Ball be off the board already, Avdija looks like an interesting fit who can provide some of the ballhandling, playmaking, unselfishness and defensive versatility the roster lacks. — Givony

    7. Obi Toppin
    8. Precious Achiuwa
    9. Tyrese Halliburton
    10. Killian Hayes

    With our #27 pick, it says we take Vernon Carey, the C from Duke, but underneath that selection is describes Payton Pritchard:

    While the Knicks are likely set on finding their point guard of the future with their top-10 pick — and Carey will be appealing this late in the first round — Pritchard could help turn the franchise around with his shooting and toughness. He shoots it from 30-plus feet with ease, makes most basic reads and displays underrated defensive skills. Pritchard also fits well alongside shot-creating wings such as RJ Barrett thanks to his ability to space the floor off the catch. — Schmitz

  8. I seriously doubt that any rankings are meaningful in terms of pick-by-pick order, especially pre-lottery, as there isn’t a consensus #1,2,3 as there was last year when lottery order probably didn’t matter much last year, Zion, Ja and RJ were likely 1-2-3 no matter how it turned out. The consensus seems to be that LaMelo, Wiseman, Edwards and Toppin and someone else will all go somewhere in the top 5, but beyond that it’s pretty much a crap shoot.

  9. Just looking at the numbers, Halliburton seems more promising than Avdija. On top of that I doubt Dolan let’s us draft another unproven Euro. On the other hand the Knicks love 19yo with terrible numbers

    What’s the appeal of Avdija?

  10. Coach-wise, I’d be interested to see Thibs or Van Gundy build a defense around Mitch. But don’t know if I want either as the HC.

    When did JVG coach last? Still prefer him over most the list

  11. That could be. I don’t know enough about where either played in Europe to judge that.

  12. Early Bird: I’d argue even he was a lot more proven than Avdija

    He was not necessarily any more proven but his size and skill profile were so tantalizing that it mitigated some of the aversion to risk.

  13. Porzingis played 1600 min of high level basketball and put up good per 36 numbers

    Avdija played 400 min and his per 36 numbers are trash

    Avdija did play in a better league, but hasn’t shown he deserves it. Plus he can’t shoot, 60% from FT

  14. If they reach for a position of need rather than BPA they should be given a beating. In case they don’t know they have 4 positions of need.

  15. Thanks, Hubert.
    I’m intrigued by Avdija, but I think people are projecting too much Doncic into him. He does have better advanced numbers than LaMelo in a tougher league but also had much better teammates.
    The bad ft shooting is confusing as he has a pretty good ts%. He seems very “boom or bust” to me, but could be a worthwhile risk at 6.
    Plus, Dolan can sell a ton more seats to Jewish NYers with this pick.

  16. Early Bird:
    Porzingis played 1600 min of high level basketball and put up good per 36 numbers

    Avdija played 400 min and his per 36 numbers are trash

    Avdija did play in a better league, but hasn’t shown he deserves it. Plus he can’t shoot, 60% from FT

    In the year he was drafted, KP’s numbers were decent in 335 minutes of Eurocup, but his biggest and last sample (737 minutes of Liga ACB) were not great. He shot .313 from 3 and averaged 4.8 fouls per 36. He seemed frail and had a history of anemia. But yeah, Avdija is really iffy, I’d want no part of him.

  17. bobneptune:
    If they reach for a position of need rather than BPA they should be given a beating. In case they don’t know they have 4 positions of need.

    On principle, I agree 100%. The problem is that in this draft, “best player available” is very subjective. For example, is it best right now or best in 4 years? How do you know?

    I would draft Wiseman at #2 even though we have Mitch because I think he’s the second-best prospect in this draft behind LaMelo.

  18. i’m gonna hope against jackson and kidd…what happened in minny has me skeptical of thibs…i don’t even remember him winning that much in chicago…plus he yells a lot, fuck him…

    i thought we should have got monty williams when he was available…i don’t know, if you have a bad roster, maybe it doesn’t really matter all that much…

    okay if the choices were atkinson or miller – i’d see if miller bites at a three year deal…

    ditto on picking BPA…although, without djphan – do we really know whom that might even be…

  19. I have no idea who the BPA is. But I did just listen to draft previews. Anthony Edwards sounded like an athletic inefficient chucker without other redeeming skills. James Wiseman sounded like a usable NBA center, both offensively and defensively, but not a real stud. Of the two, it made we want Wiseman, but I wasn’t thrilled with the choice. Am i wrong in my impressions?

  20. Miller was on a winning pace that would give 32 wins over a full season. That’s better than preseason predictions. Now he might have had an easier schedule than the full season just by chance, but even so, he probably would have hit the over under for wins given a full season. The over under is usually based on just player talent. There are a few coaches that beat expectations based on personnel but they are few and far between. if we gat a coach who gets the wins that should be expected from our roster, that’s a decent NBA coach and I am happy with that. From what I said above, Miller is at least that. So it has to be a very good ex-coach to beat him out for the job.

  21. Atkinson would be interesting, but it’d be the same thing as now – he’d play the vets over the kids because that’s what Dolan wants.

    I want them to hire the coach who asks for the most money for a long term guaranteed deal who they then fire after one season and then repeat that pattern till Dolan is losing so much money that he sells the team. I want the Knicks in the luxury tax for past their prime vets and for there to be empty seats at MSG. I want Dolan to harass fans so much that the league gets involved. I want Dolan to wipe away his tears while he’s chopping up habenaros. I hope Dolan’s favorite fragrance gets discontinued and he can’t find it on eBay and nothing else is the same, man. I hope that every time he buys sheets that when he gets them home they look different than they did in the store. I hope that all his new shoes start to rub after he wears them for a couple of hours. I hope that there is a weird smell in his kitchen and he can’t figure out where it’s coming from.

  22. But yeah, Miller is fine. I also feel like he had some guys improving in some ways but who knows. Rona has stolen my memory and there is no longer a past or a future, just an endless dull NOW, stretched out forever.

  23. It’s kind of weird how thin the bench is for coaches with good resumes is. I mean, you’d think the Knicks could buy anybody, since the coach doesn’t count against the cap. But then you look at who’s out there and you’re like, “that’s all our money can buy?”

    But, then you look closer at the list of living championship coaches:

    Jackson: been there
    Riley: done it
    Brown: banned for life
    Wilkens: escorted from the building
    Kerr: already tried
    Heinsohn: Celtic
    Jones: Celtic
    Russell: Celtic
    Fitch: Celtic
    Popovich: too smart
    Carlisle: too smart
    Spoelstra: too smart
    Rivers: too smart
    Nurse: too smart
    Tomjanovich: I’m sure there’s something
    Lue: AVAILABLE

  24. Gold Coast slave ship bound for cotton fields
    Sold in the market down in New Orleans

    the first time i noticed michael kenneth williams was in boardwalk empire…the show had a bunch of great actors whom i wasn’t that familiar with prior to watching the series…

    he stuck out like a force of nature, hard not to take notice…there were a few other michaels on the show that made me stop and notice…michael pitt, michael stuhlbarg, michael shannon as nelson van alden in particular…they could have done the whole show on him and stephen graham as capone and it would have been great…

    when i did a little googling on williams it kept referring to his work on the wire…only finished with S1 ep 8, but yeah things definitely pick up when omar’s on screen…which is something, cuz there’s a bunch of other good performances…

    some stars just shine a little brighter than others…

    early on i find myself comparing lance riddick’s lt. daniels to yaphet kotto’s lt. giardello…turns out i got homicide: a year on the killing streets sitting on the same shelf with a bunch of michael crichton and a few frederick forsyth books…

    i just love the way lt. daniels walks…i am clearly better than you, and, let me demonstrate that fact in my gait…

    up til now, my favorite all time walk was spike lee’s stride in malcom x and do the right thing

    yeah, i’ll be up late this evening practicing the lt. daniels walk…well, because what better way to demonstrate my self assured belief – that i am in fact: more human than you man…

  25. Grocer: I want them to hire the coach who asks for the most money for a long term guaranteed deal who they then fire after one season and then repeat that pattern till Dolan is losing so much money that he sells the team. I want the Knicks in the luxury tax for past their prime vets and for there to be empty seats at MSG. I want Dolan to harass fans so much that the league gets involved. I want Dolan to wipe away his tears while he’s chopping up habenaros. I hope Dolan’s favorite fragrance gets discontinued and he can’t find it on eBay and nothing else is the same, man. I hope that every time he buys sheets that when he gets them home they look different than they did in the store. I hope that all his new shoes start to rub after he wears them for a couple of hours. I hope that there is a weird smell in his kitchen and he can’t figure out where it’s coming from.

    Yeah, pretty much this. It’s so tiring to root for something – smart management of a basketball team – that you know won’t happen.

  26. GUYS!

    I’m so sorry I let you worry about me :(

    As I just wrote to Brian, everything’s fine, me and LF are well and everything, but the quarantine is starting to take its mental toll (especially considering that I’m working, albeit from home, exactly as I was doing before).

    For an introvert, though (or better yet a couple of introverts) being “locked” for more than a month – today they should stretch the quarantine to May, 3rd – makes you take a few countermeasures about it. For example, I’m not checking NBA things at all, since nobody knows anything about restarting things and I find uncertainty really discomforting.

    Anyway just know that by caring about me you made my stone cold heart skip more than a beat.

    I love you guys.

  27. GUYS!

    I’m so sorry I let you worry about me :(

    As I just wrote to Brian, everything’s fine, me and LF are well and everything, but the quarantine is starting to take its mental toll (especially considering that I’m working, albeit from home, exactly as I was doing before).

    For an introvert, though (or better yet a couple of introverts) being “locked” for more than a month – today they should stretch the quarantine to May, 3rd – makes you take a few countermeasures about it. For example, I’m not checking NBA things at all, since nobody knows anything about restarting things and I find uncertainty really discomforting.

    Anyway just know that by caring about me you made my stone cold heart skip more than a beat.

    I love you guys.

    Best news of the day……

  28. Btw, I’m hoping for Okwongu in the draft, even with Mitch. I think he’ll be able to play in space at the next level and might even develop a 3 pt shot. Sadly, Idk if he would slip past the Pistons.

    I just really hope we don’t take Cole Anthony, who looks like an Austin Rivers 2.0. I would be ok with LaMelo or Hayes as guard picks.

  29. I was just worried that we weren’t going to get recaps of the HORSE tournament.

    Seriously, glad to hear from you Farfa!

  30. If we are going to continue building primarily through the draft and with young free agents looking for a fresh start, I’d go with Atkinson.

    If we are going to mix in higher level free agents in their late 20s up to 30, then I’d go with Thibodeau.

    I would have no problem sticking with Miller. I just don’t think they are going to do that. I think they are going to want to make a splash. So I think Thibodeau is going to get the job. Everyone knows how much he wants it and he’s got an inside track with Rose.

  31. Although…

    I think most here probably agree that LaMelo (as well as Hayes) aren’t very good fits with RJ, while Haliburton seems like the perfect fit in the backcourt with him.

    It comes down to how much faith the organization has in RJ long-term. Is he the future engine of this team? He didn’t have a great rookie year, but he was also used pretty poorly in my opinion (all Fiz had to do was use him the way he was used at Duke to keep his job smdh.)

    But if they move up in the draft and LaMelo is an option, then they probably have to consider taking him. Maybe that leads to an RJ trade, but I doubt he has max value right now. And the team is still going to need shooters to put around either one.

    I guess the question is if you had to build around one who would you pick: RJ or LaMelo?

  32. I want Thibs because I think Mark Jackson is the other likely option… or maybe we should get Jackson while we still suck since it’s inevitable we get him eventually

  33. Atkinson would be better than we deserve.

    Handing the keys to RJ after that rookie season seems a little crazy.

    I think picking 5th is a blessing in disguise for whoever is in charge. Picking first would create a lot of false hopes. Less pressure and they’d save money and probably get an equivalent prospect at 5.

    I like Okongwu. Seems like he’ll be a useful piece and won’t have problems fitting next to Mitch. Halliburton would be fine also. Don’t see anyone in this draft who will change our fortunes dramatically though.

  34. Early Bird
    April 9, 2020 at 6:09 pm
    Porzingis played 1600 min of high level basketball and put up good per 36 numbers

    Avdija played 400 min and his per 36 numbers are trash

    Avdija did play in a better league, but hasn’t shown he deserves it. Plus he can’t shoot, 60% from FT

    Avdija hasn’t played enough in the euroleague to pay attention to his stats, but they are not impressive..

    I don’t know if I want another combo wing who can’t shoot. I’d rather take Halliburton or Hayes if we’re talking an international project.

  35. I love Edwards’ NBADraft profile:

    “elite level athleticism”
    “good feel for the game and competitiveness”
    “good size and length”
    “strong build”
    “uses his strength well and should be able to add additional strength”
    “finishes well”
    “high-level athleticism”
    “natural scoring ability”
    “shoots well from three” (linger on this one for a minute)
    “good tools and athleticism”
    “makes the game look easy”
    “good competitor”

    I think I’ve come down with Eyetest Toxicity. What say the numbers?

    29.4% 3PT shooter, 58% on FTs.

    Bust in the making, the kind of player drooled over by scouts who lands with a thud in the NBA when he can’t throw the ball into the ocean — reminds me of a certain highly-touted SG on the Knicks’ roster right now…

  36. Edwards’ NBADraft profile has to get Scott Perry salivating as if Pavlov was ringing a million bells that make the sound of a clanged rim when played in unison

  37. The source I used for Edwards was the Dunc’d On podcast describing him. They agree with you Jowles. They compared him to inefficient checkers like Dion Waiters. Scarily, they also compared him to RJ (like I think you just did) but RJ at least passes better and is showing some signs on defense. I don’t understand how the NBAdraft profile can praise his shooting with numbers like that.

  38. The profile was written before the college season, but it still shows that “scouts” have no fucking clue what they’re doing.

  39. ***”Elite level athleticism”…***
    ***”high-level athleticism”…***
    ***”good tools and athleticism”…***

    NBA draft spends half the list down-grading his athleticism.

    ***“makes the game look easy”***

    They don’t specify for which team he makes the game look easy for, though.

  40. Report: At the moment Donovan Mitchell and Rudy Gobert’s relationship “doesn’t appear salvageable”. The Jazz have started to work on their relationship but sources say “Mitchell remains reluctant to fix what is already broken”

    What a weird thing to break up a team over.

  41. Great to hear from Farfa!

    I really hope the Knicks go for Atkinson and let him do what he did in NJ. Will that happen? No, probably not.

  42. Would Jaylen Brown be a good “bad” outcome with the #1-3 pick in this draft? Anthony Edwards has better stats than Brown did in college and is a more refined player. I think that’s his floor, zero chance of him being a bust.

  43. You completely cannot trust high school rankings. The top-four high school prospects in 2013 were:

    1. Andrew Wiggins
    2. Jabari Parker
    3. Julius Randle (!)
    4. Aaron Gordon

    That was just a year I picked at random. Edwards and Lamelo are both potential busts, but at least Lamelo seems to have one elite-level skill in his passing.

  44. DRed: Avdija hasn’t played enough in the euroleague to pay attention to his stats, but they are not impressive..

    I don’t know if I want another combo wing who can’t shoot.I’d rather take Halliburton or Hayes if we’re talking an international project.

    Yeah, the small number of minutes and him being unproven is kind of my point. I think that (1) we shouldn’t risk taking such an unproven commodity; and (2) Dolan won’t risk taking another Euro as unproven as Frank. If we fall enough in the lottery, then my position might change. But as long as Halliburton and Hayes are available they should be prioritized.

    From Dolan’s perspective, KP at least put up POINTZZZ!!! while playing

    I think Dolan may also hold being French against Hayes since our last two French players did not turn out well, even though Hayes is clearly a better prospect.

  45. I can’t remember the last time the eye test and the stats had me so torn, LaMelo’s passing in Australia really is gorgeous and I keep going back to watch his highlights. The passing and rebounding stats are also eye-popping even if he can’t shoot for crap. I can’t fault the Knicks for taking him, but boy does he have a high bust potential.

  46. ess-dog:
    You completely cannot trust high school rankings. The top-four high school prospects in 2013 were:

    1. Andrew Wiggins
    2. Jabari Parker
    3. Julius Randle (!)
    4. Aaron Gordon

    That was just a year I picked at random. Edwards and Lamelo are both potential busts, but at least Lamelo seems to have one elite-level skill in his passing.

    I wouldn’t call any of those guys busts. Just lousy players.

  47. What a weird thing to break up a team over.

    It’s insanity. Mitchell doesn’t even know if Gobert was the first carrier! It could very well have been him! If you want to criticize Gobert for being a mouthbreather who took the virus about as seriously as a certain high-ranking American elected official did, sure. He’s an idiot and we knew that well before 1,000 started dying each day in this country with no end in sight. But Mitchell can’t point the finger at Gobert with any kind of certainty.

    I wouldn’t call any of those guys busts. Just lousy players.

    Uh, how do you define bust, then? They went #1, #2, #7 and #6. In total they have 12.2 VORP. When you draft someone in the top 10, you’re saying that they should be the best or 2nd-best player at a particular position in the draft. Wiggins, for one, has never posted a positive BPM season, and has never cracked league-average shooting efficiency. And no major injuries to speak of. If that’s not a bust, I don’t know what is.

  48. Early Bird: I can’t fault the Knicks for taking him, but boy does he have a high bust potential.

    Again, the use of the term “bust” is subject to interpretation. I consider a bust to be a non-rotation player. Someone can be a disappointment without being a bust.

  49. Z-man: Again, the use of the term “bust” is subject to interpretation. I consider a bust to be a non-rotation player. Someone can be a disappointment without being a bust.

    For a potential #1 overall pick, I definitely see a high bust potential even under your definition. The Australian league is a huge question mark to me. Being a superior athlete can make your numbers and passing look much better than if you compete against athletes on your level. If LaMelo can’t beat NBA PGs off the dribble, he has zero value

  50. Huge relief to hear from you Farfa!

    That mock draft would be a pretty sad outcome. I’m just not seeing much in Avidja’s profile that suggests he belongs in the upper lottery, even in this draft. The counterpoint is that his “little bit of everything” profile could lead to him having an Iguodala-esque career, which would obviously be a great outcome just about anywhere in the draft. I wouldn’t be as upset as I would be if we wound up with Cole Anthony, but it’s hard for me to believe he’ll have the best career of all of our options.

    What’s more, in that mock we’re passing on Haliburton and Hayes for him. I’d be pretty thrilled with either of those two.

    Hayes in particular seems to not getting enough attention if you ask me and we should try to capitalize on that. He put up 17 points, 8 assists, and 2 steals per 36 minutes (.578 TS%, .500 2P%) as an 18 year old in the Eurocup, which is sprinkled with plenty of NCAA standouts and fringe NBA players. I’m fairly certain he’ll wind up being #1 on my big board. There’s every reason to believe he would’ve torn up the NCAA. For those if you worried about his 3PT%, keep in mind the sample is tiny and he’s an 84% career free throw shooter.

    As for our next two picks, I understand just grabbing VCJ if he’s available because he’s a virtual lock to have a better NBA career than a lot of guys picked ahead of him. The problem is simple–he’s a dinosaur, and more Triassic than Cretaceous. Major eye test disclaimer here (I don’t know where to find stats on this), but he gets nearly all of his points from the post so it’s totally unclear how that would translate.

    It’s pretty remarkable how quickly things have changed. VCJ’s profile is pretty similar to Jahlil Okafor’s, which got him picked #3 overall in a well-regarded draft while VCJ might slip to the second round. If anything, VCJ is more athletic and stands a better chance of being tolerable defensively than Okafor.

  51. Pritchard…meh. It took him until his Junior year to get his 2PT% over .500 and I think the sample size is too small to conclude he’s a knock-down shooter. The STL% is interesting but I think he’s too small to be much of a defender in the NBA.

    Tyler Bey, Paul Reed, Kira Lewis Jr., and Patrick Williams comprise my wishlist for our second pick as of now.

    With our last pick, Tre Jones would be kind of similar to VCJ in that it could be justified on the basis that he’s a pretty good bet to stick in the NBA. He’s a legit point of attack defender and fairly gifted distributor, but I think his upside has a hard cap because he’s not very athletic and isn’t all that good at any one thing.

    I definitely wouldn’t complain about him with a second rounder, he might be the point guard we’ve had in like 7 years or whatever. I’d prefer Devon Dotson (still unable to determine if there’s any relation) though.

    Mason Jones is my wild card with our second rounder. His freshman year was up and down but there were some positive signs. As a sophomore he absolutely exploded to the point where I think the upside alone would justify the pick.

  52. Oh yeah, Cole Anthony. He’s legitimately going to be a bust under any definition. I think he’s more likely to be a bust than a starter level player.

    I would consider Cole in the 2nd round, and still probably choose someone else

    Of course this means he’s a lock to join the Knicks

  53. I don’t understand the Gobert/Mitchell situation.

    1. We can’t be sure Gobert gave it to Mitchell
    2. As far as I can tell, Gobert behaved immaturely and ignorantly but not maliciously.

    If I imagine myself in Mitchell’s shoes my initial reaction would have been to have negative feelings toward Gobert, but I think I’d quickly see it for what is was for and get past it. I would’t blow up an otherwise good relationship over it unless it was a pattern of behavior and this put me over the top.

    To be clear though, we don’t know how they interacted and what Gobert did. Maybe it was worse than we know.

    I’d take Mitchell if he wants out.

  54. thenoblefacehumper: Mason Jones is my wild card with our second rounder. His freshman year was up and down but there were some positive signs. As a sophomore he absolutely exploded to the point where I think the upside alone would justify the pick.

    What’s the knock on Jones? Just looking at the numbers I’d probably consider him in the late first round and probably over a lot of the lottery picks I’ve seen. Is he too old?

  55. I think “non-rotation player” is a fair criteria for a lottery “bust.” To take two back-to-back #1 picks as an example, Michael Bennett is a bust, Andrew Wiggins is just a disappointment. And I haaaaaate Andrew Wiggins’ game, but the guy can obviously crack the rotation of most NBA teams out there.

  56. The Jazz having to choose between Mitchell and Gobert would be fascinating in that it’s basically, like, the debate we’ve been having here for 10 years…

  57. What’s the knock on Jones? Just looking at the numbers I’d probably consider him in the late first round and probably over a lot of the lottery picks I’ve seen. Is he too old?

    He’s old for a sophomore, the SEC isn’t a great conference, and I guess you could say he’s kind of a tweener.

    All that said, I’m in total agreement with you that in a draft like this one he’d be a worthwhile gamble.

  58. Brian Cronin:
    I think “non-rotation player” is a fair criteria for a lottery “bust.” To take two back-to-back #1 picks as an example, Michael Bennett is a bust, Andrew Wiggins is just a disappointment. And I haaaaaate Andrew Wiggins’ game, but the guy can obviously crack the rotation of most NBA teams out there.

    Same for the other 3. They are hugely disappointing and none of them deserve the contracts they signed (except maaaybeee Julius Randle, he underperformed with us but is probably a $15-20 mill player in the correct role and at $10 mill would have some trade value.)

    I can’t imagine any of LaMelo, Wiseman or Edwards having trouble cracking a rotation in 3-4 years. All are better-than-average athletes with multiple NBA-transferrable skills. A mediocre case for LaMelo is his brother, for Wiseman is Nerlens, for Edwards is, I dunno,, Tyreke Evans? current version of Fultz? None of those guys are useless players.

  59. You guys are nice people defending Jabari Parker from being labeled as a bust. He’s played for five different teams in the past two years. “Journeyman” is not a good outcome for a #2 pick. (Journeyman by 25 is an even worse outcome).

  60. I’m not as anti-Edwards as some of y’all. I definitely think he’s overhyped and don’t understand why he’s widely viewed as a consensus top 3 pick, but he’s got some real skills.

    His .294 3PT% isn’t pretty, but he also shot 77% from the line on a boatload of attempts. Contrast that to someone like Lonzo Ball, who shot 41% from the college 3, but only 67% from the line and proceeded to struggle mightily from 3 for a while in the NBA. NCAA 3PT% tends to be more of a distraction than anything else. If anything, it’s promising that Edwards continued to shoot threes.

    He’s a good defender, really good finisher, and is one of the youngest players in the class. The fit would be very weird because he’s pretty similar to Barrett as a prospect (probably a better shooter/scorer but less willing passer) but as others have mentioned we ain’t exactly in a position to be worried about such things.

    Overall I think we’d be lucky to come away from this draft with him. He’ll almost definitely be behind Hayes and Okongwu for me, and possibly Haliburton and Ball too, but I think he’d be a perfectly good pick from pick 3 on down.

  61. Jabari Parker, I think, is a bit unfair due to much of his major issues being due to injuries. He was a decent enough young player and then he had a career-altering injury.

  62. “Not a good outcome” and “Bust” are different to me. That was a terrible draft. Only 2 max-level players came out of that draft…one was drafted #41 and the other had a career-threatening foot injury. Essentially, if your were drafting in the lottery, the odds were that you were getting at best a decent role player like Smart, Payton or Randle. No one was going to risk reaching down for Capela.

    Which is a fair dimension to add to the definition of bust….how may players drafted in the 7-8 players picked after you picked turned out to be far better than what you got stuck with (not including super-high risk picks like Embiid, Michael Porter Jr., etc.? I mean, can you really be that upset that you took Andrew Wiggins over Marcus Smart?

  63. Brian Cronin:
    Jabari Parker, I think, is a bit unfair due to much of his major issues being due to injuries. He was a decent enough young player and then he had a career-altering injury.

    Right, although he clearly has issues beyond the injury.

  64. A mediocre case for LaMelo is his brother

    Lonzo played at UCLA and there was never a question about his defense. He’s finally started hitting his threes this year, which gave him a decent TS%.

    LaMelo is playing in a league with questionable talent, he’s shown horrible defensive effort, and he can’t shoot threes.

    I’m not saying LaMelo will be a bust, but if I’m putting percentages on it, he has a significantly higher bust chance than others.

  65. There is actually no question whatsoever that the talent in the NBL is far superior to the NCAA. None.

  66. * meaning the typical team rotation, not the best players. Think about it…the average player on a top-50 NCAA team couldn’t even get a Vegas summer-league invite, much less a spot on a G-League team. Maybe a final-4-level team does well in the NBL, but most team get destroyed there. Conversely, imagine what a guy like Melo Trimble would do right now in the NCAA.

  67. I’m going to remain skeptical of the NBL until proven otherwise. I doubt it’s anywhere close to the top European leagues, so I think the talent that goes there is self-selecting to some extent.

    Plus LaMelo still needs to show he can score efficiently and defend

  68. Randle went 7th and is 10th in career VORP from his draft-I’d say he was disappointing, but if you draft a guy 7th in a weak draft that’s probably what you can reasonably expect. There were maybe 4 good players in the entire draft. I’d probably rather have more than 9 from that draft instead of Randle, but they’re not that much better than him that it would really make a difference.

  69. >The Jazz having to choose between Mitchell and Gobert would be fascinating in that it’s basically, like, the debate we’ve been having here for 10 years…<

    I love both of them, but I think I would keep Gobert even though Mitchell is younger and may have more upside.

    For the Knicks, I could think of worse backcourts than Mitchell and Frank. :-)

  70. If I imagine myself in Mitchell’s shoes my initial reaction would have been to have negative feelings toward Gobert, but I think I’d quickly see it for what is was for and get past it. I would’t blow up an otherwise good relationship over it unless it was a pattern of behavior and this put me over the top.

    gorbert’s actions will be re-run forever, one of your worst days ever immortalized – that thought should be revenge enough for most…i imagine more of this story will get out and we will know what their relationship was pre-covid…you know what, just realized – i don’t really care…

    without looking over their stats – i’d keep mitchell over gorbert…gorbert is really good, but, i think you can find different pieces to compensate for losing what he brings…

    would i swap our mitch for rudy…that’s an even better question…got to factor: age, salary, projected impact next year…

    i’d keep mitch…not really close even…

    they could have RJ, kevin, a pick or two and just about anything else they wanted – but frank – for donovan…

  71. DRed: Randle went 7th and is 10th in career VORP from his draft-I’d say he was disappointing,

    He was 5th of the players drafted in the lottery (actually in the top 24) and 7th of the players drafted in the entire first round. I mean, the only player drafted above him that was clearly a better outcome is Embiid. The next 5 guys after him are equal or worse. Sure, he’s not a bonafide star so I guess that’s disappointing, but the standard you set for not being disappointed is pretty tough to meet.

  72. Re: Gobert and Mitchell, first I’d keep trying to work it out, but if that didn’t work, I’d probably see what I could get for Gobert…but would maybe rather trade Mitchell, since I’m not sure he’s going to be worth the max contract that he will command. It’s a tough call from the outside.

  73. Even in a shitty draft if you have the 7th pick you’re probably hoping to get a player who turns out to be better than average. Randle isn’t that guy, so he’s kind of disappointing.

  74. Idk if I agree with “non rotational player” as the way to qualify a bust. Is Bargnani a bust? Clearly, but he was almost always in a rotation. Bennett is clearly a bust, but based on his recent Gleague play, it looks like he could probably be a rotational player tomorrow.
    A lot of this is based on coaching decisions and, yes, luck. I would say a top-2 or 3 pick needs to be more than a rotational player to not be a bust. He needs to at least be a starter (for starters)…

  75. I’d take Mitchell if he wants out.

    Everyone here seems to share your opinion, but I think the Jazz would pick trading Gobert instead of Mitchell if they had to pick one of them. You can’t get another Gobert easily but you can get a functional replacement for him more easily than you can replace Mitchell. And Mitchell is younger too. Also, Gobert’s behavior was bad and it’s likely players other than Mitchell didn’t like it. If Jazz management thinks Gobert was the disruptor more than Mitchell they will probably want to trade him. My guess is they already weren’t friends before the incident, and this just made it worse. So unless the Jazz think Mitchell is a primadonna, expect Gobert to be much more available than Mitchell.

  76. Hey at least we got a new Strokes album. And an ode to the Mets.

    That fucking band, man. I was 22 and living in the LES when they broke out. It was like catching lightning in a bottle. The single best musical experience I’m likely to ever see was them doing their album release for Is This It? at the Mercury Lounge under the moniker of The Shitty Beatles. To see that band in that venue at that point in their ascendancy was some lucky shit.

  77. Even in a shitty draft if you have the 7th pick you’re probably hoping to get a player who turns out to be better than average. Randle isn’t that guy, so he’s kind of disappointing.

    Except that historically an average starter is a very common outcome for the seventh pick and a significant number of picks are worse than this.

  78. Lol isn’t “the Shitty Beatles” a Wayne’s World joke? Can’t that band do anything original?

  79. Imo bust has to do with the expectations for each player. Not with the number he was selected on the draft.

    Randle could be a pretty good player if he refined his game and cut some spin and much ego. Unfortunately “Ifs” are not pieces of cake…

    Strokes unfortunately never impressed me. They were the ambassadors of my lost interest for music of today after i had followed closely the incredible 90s music explosion.
    The Casablanca connection made it worse.
    They look to me like stylish wealthy punks which is an oxymoron plus their music ain’t something special imo.

  80. Call me crazy but Rudy Gobert seems to have a much more unique skillset and a far superior nickname.

    Not a Donovan Mitchell guy and trading Gobert at the height of his personal unpopularity seems unlikely to be sound practice.

    He’ll probably end up on the Spurs and win two titles there somehow….

  81. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuXlZ5PHK9I

    “Human Sadness” by The Voidz (Julian Casablancas’ new band) might have been the best rock song of the 2010s, and definitely the “Bohemian Rhapsody” (or “November Rain”?) of our time

    But Room on Fire was like a good companion to Is This It? and they never did anything worth listening to after.

  82. How much difference does that make in your analysis?

    I tend to view FT% shooting as a proxy for jump shooting, and I’m really wary of outliers on the low end. I can’t tell you much about a 75% FT shooter, for instance, but I can tell you with near-certainty that a 50% FT shooter is not going to be a threat from deep. I’ll dig for some more information on that.

  83. The Greek Chorus “hates” @BobNeptune because BobN exposes their flaws and double standards.

    Be well and keep safe y’all !

  84. Owen wrote:
    April 10, 2020 at 10:32 pm
    Call me crazy but Rudy Gobert seems to have a much more unique skillset and a far superior nickname.

    very disrespectful of the criminally insane. dont be so tonedef. also, Nicknames are people too, you know.

  85. People had a tendency to make things more difficult that they might actually be. If you are looking for a person to draft to the NBA who might make a good pro, rather than look for an “athletic freak” who shows off the chart metrics, but as displayed the inability to do anything related to winning in the modern NBA, try something other than Cole Anthony with his 25% 3 ball shooting. We already have one of those as a starter who isn’t shit. And at 26, he still shoots 26% from 3.

    Why not get a 10th grade kid who has taken basic computer science as your GM and have him write a .bat file which looks at College Reference BB stats ad write a.bat file that makes lists of players who are good at modern NBA winning traits in whatever order you think important… like maybe shooting efficiently overall and from distance(especially on the Knicks):

    3 point shooting % on high volume
    scoring efficiency on reasonable volume
    rebounding
    ws/48
    VORP
    TS%
    BPM

    Whatever your metric of choice and maybe your area of need.

    I didn’t watch 20 minutes of college hoops this season and don’t know a single player. I looked at the stats on college bb reference and looked at the Knicks greatest weakness (of many) namely a guy who can put the ball in the basket efficiently from distance.

    Second in the NCAA at 3ball percentage is this guy from a major program (Villanova) who played very good competition and shot 45.1% from 3 on a good 6.7 attempts a game. His rebounding, usage, TS%, aggregate metrics ETC were all good to very good.

    I would bet anything that Saddiq Bey , never setting eyes on him will be a better Nba player than Cole Anthony. Its really not rocket science.

  86. Bob,

    I’d be willing to bet there are lots of counter examples to your stats theory of drafting. I don’t know college basketball at all, but I can think of lots of reasons why stats might not translate. A player could be slow and short but shoot accurately, for example. Then he might not be able to get good shots off faced with NBA defense. That doesn’t mean that Bey is bad, just that you can’t be sure he’s good just from the stats. On the other hand scouts can ignore players for the wrong reasons. Jeremy Lin was ignored, probably because he was Asian and went to Harvard. But he was one of the best point guards in his draft, both statistically and in practice.

  87. Hubert – I think we have had this conversation but have you read Meet Me in the Bathroom?

    Maybe not directly, what we’ve talked about our musical overlap enough times for me to know that book was as nostalgic for you as it was for me. We most definitely crossed paths at some shows.

  88. The Honorable Cock Jowles: But Room on Fire was like a good companion to Is This It? and they never did anything worth listening to after.

    I certainly don’t count myself among the musical cognoscenti here and am aware that I likely expose myself to ridicule with my basic taste, BUT… imho, never doing anything good after Is This It? is absolutely fine considering what an album that was. (Keep in mind I moved to NYC in September 2001 so my thoughts about the strokes and that album are inexorably intertwined with the euphoria of being 22 and living in NY.)

    I really enjoyed First Impressions of Earth, though.

    Going to check out Human Sadness now. Thanks for the look.

  89. Like many bands of that (or any era), they ran out of good new ideas. There’s only so much you can do with garage revival, which is why I was so surprised that Casablancas re-emerged with such an interesting new band. Most artists’ careers don’t have a second period of intense creativity. (That’s why bands like The Beatles, The Beach Boys, Radiohead, Talk Talk, My Bloody Valentine, Swans, David Bowie, Death Grips, Phil Elverum, Mark Kozelek et al. have such a revered place in indie-snob culture.)

    I showed The Voidz to Lady Jowles, who had liked the first couple Strokes album way back before she shacked up with a music snob. The first song on Virtue is a dead ringer for The Strokes in a weirdly regressive way (especially compared to a lot of their other stuff, which can be quite left field), and I had mentioned something about how I didn’t know we needed new Julian Casablancas, but here we were. She thought I meant that it simply sounded like JC, so for about a week we were listening to their albums while she thought that it was a guy doing a very, very convincing Casablancas impression.

    This is one of my favorite Voidz songs.

  90. Amir from The Voidz is an old friend of mine. We’ve played together on a bunch of different projects over the years. He’s one of the voices in the chorus of “Round And Round” by APHG. Virtuoso musician.

    Julian is a big Ariel Pink fan, and tried to sign Ariel to his label a while back. We opened for the Voidz at the Wiltern and their fans seemed very confused. Whenever we’d open for a bigger act we’d bum a lot of people out.

  91. Is he the one doing the Slash solo in “Human Sadness?” Their guitarists are awesome.

  92. I just saw a comment in the NYP about the possibility of drafting Aaron Nesmith. He was originally projected as a second rounder but now is talked about in the #10-20 range. Is he the kind of player worth trading up or down to get? Probably a reach at #6-8. But the dude can really shoot (52% on 120 3pt attempts, 83% on 63 FTA, 50% from 2) and has nice size, athleticism, shooting form and fluidity. Some posters here mentioned him in January and February but now he can’t be had in the range of our lower picks, he likely won’t be there at #25 . Thoughts?

  93. aaron nesmith is good and he’s #5 on my board and he should be at least top 10 in this draft….

  94. djphan that’s interesting because while I’d like him with our late first, I’m not interested in him at all with our own pick.

    He was unimpressive as a freshman across the board, and while he made a huge leap as a sophomore his numbers are bolstered by a ridiculous .525 3PT% I don’t think he has a prayer of maintaining. I definitely buy that he projects well as a shooter, but I’m concerned by his relative lack of 2PT attempts despite his size. There’s also not much in the way of defensive stats.

    He’ll be in an NBA rotation for his shooting alone but that’s about all I’m willing to say. Perfectly good outcome with a late pick, but not with a top-10.

  95. Berman says we sent a scouting contingent to see Hayes so that’s good. I really think he’s in a tier of his own in this class.

  96. I find it extremely hard to get excited about music artists on the last 20 years unless they play psychedelic, progressive or space rock music.
    During the 90s the explosion of Alternative Rock, trip hop, grunge, techno, big beat even brit pop and other genres made me care and await for new releases but after ’98, ’99 i felt a serious downturn in quality even from artists that were kicking ass during the previous decade.
    Strokes, Muse, Coldplay, arcade fire and a few other bands were the frontrunners of what i consider as the decadence of pop/rock industry…(although i get why they’re so beloved by the teenagers of their era. Nostalgia and appreciation of quality are many times confused in our minds)

  97. I heard there’s a Jugo Unicorn that may enter the draft this year. He plays for the greek basketball club Olympiakos. His name is Pokusevski.

  98. I find it extremely hard to get excited about music artists on the last 20 years unless they play psychedelic, progressive or space rock music.

    That sucks that you can’t get it up for new music, especially since there has been an absurd number of great albums since 2000.

    During the 90s the explosion of Alternative Rock, trip hop, grunge, techno, big beat even brit pop and other genres made me care and await for new releases but after ’98, ’99 i felt a serious downturn in quality even from artists that were kicking ass during the previous decade.

    That’s a “you” thing, dawg. The 90s had some of my favorite albums and also some of the worst shit ever committed to tape.

    Strokes, Muse, Coldplay, arcade fire and a few other bands were the frontrunners of what i consider as the decadence of pop/rock industry…(although i get why they’re so beloved by the teenagers of their era. Nostalgia and appreciation of quality are many times confused in our minds)

    Now don’t get me wrong — I think The Strokes were lightning in a bottle (a good band made immortal via right place, right time), but Arcade Fire is whatever, Coldplay sucks, and Muse really sucks. The rise of indie arena rock (which is what I’d call Arcade Fire; I’d call Muse an unpalatable early-era Radiohead clone making 30-second spots for college football matchup hype commercials) and the post-punk revival (even its best bands like The National put me to sleep) aren’t bright spots in pop music history, but neither were disco, yacht rock, 80s power balladry/hair metal, post-grunge, nu-metal, rap-rock, late-90s mallgoth, crunkcore, bling-era rap, Skrillex-style dubstep, scenester screamo, mumble and emo rap.

    There is a ton of good new music out there.

  99. yea nesmith isn’t a slamdunk but relative to others he’s not bad…. he can shoot, not terrible offensively and got some hop to his step… he was rated pretty highly coming out of hs…

    in terms of who i rate this draft… it’s basically edwards.. okongwu.. wiseman… hayes… and then about 5-7 who would be otherwise mid first picks…. and nesmith is in that group… along with guys like haliburton and ramsey… so it’s more an indictment on the rest of the draft than how highly i think of him…

  100. The Honorable Cock Jowles: That sucks that you can’t get it up for new music, especially since there has been an absurd number of great albums since 2000.

    That’s a “you” thing, dawg. The 90s had some of my favorite albums and also some of the worst shit ever committed to tape.

    Now don’t get me wrong — I think The Strokes were lightning in a bottle (a good band made immortal via right place, right time), but Arcade Fire is whatever, Coldplay sucks, and Muse really sucks.The rise of indie arena rock (which is what I’d call Arcade Fire; I’d call Muse an unpalatable early-era Radiohead clone making 30-second spots for college football matchup hype commercials) and the post-punk revival (even its best bands like The National put me to sleep) aren’t bright spots in pop music history, but neither were disco, yacht rock, 80s power balladry/hair metal, post-grunge, nu-metal, rap-rock, late-90s mallgoth, crunkcore, bling-era rap, Skrillex-style dubstep, scenester screamo, mumble and emo rap.

    There is a ton of good new music out there.

    An absurd number of great albums since 2000 ?
    Can you name just a few to get the picture ?

  101. Watching a replay of the Villanova Georgetown final from 1985.

    There are moments in sports that are truly transcendent, Nova played a perfect basketball game, shot 79%(!) and won by 2 points. If they played Georgetown 10 more times they’d lose every one of them.

    Just an amazingly clutch performance by a massive underdog.

  102. Saw The National at Bowery Ballroom on their Alligator tour and I will stan for them till the day I die. Their turn to arena rock was whatever. Still love em.

    I agree there was a ton of amazing music from that era that went relatively unrecognized.

    I don’t worry too much about what is good or what isn’t. Never played music, really no expert. Pure fan. It was a great time though.

  103. To give you my point of view i believe that the best ones from the 00s & 10s compared to the best ones from the 60s to the 90s seem pretty poor. Except from just a few exceptions.

  104. Off the top of my head? Merriwether Post Pavilion, pom pom, Good Kid MAAD City, To Pimp a Butterfly, Person Pitch, Helplessness Blues, Titanic Rising, Crack-Up, The Money Store, To Be Kind, Benji, The Powers That B, 22 a Million, Have One on Me, Ys, You Won’t Get What You Want, A Crow Looked at Me, Madvillainy, Kaputt, Modern Vampires of the City, Black Messiah

  105. The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    Off the top of my head? Merriwether Post Pavilion, pom pom, Good Kid MAAD City, To Pimp a Butterfly, Person Pitch, Helplessness Blues, Titanic Rising, Crack-Up, The Money Store, To Be Kind, Benji, The Powers That B, 22 a Million, Have One on Me, Ys, You Won’t Get What You Want, A Crow Looked at Me, Madvillainy, Kaputt, Modern Vampires of the City, Black Messiah

    I don’t want to hurt your feelings or make it a “my dick is bigger than yours” kind of conversation but I’d suggest you to start digging backwards if you really love good music.

  106. Knew Your Nicks: I don’t want to hurt your feelings or make it a “my dick is bigger than yours” kind of conversation but I’d suggest you to start digging backwards if you really love good music.

    What are the great albums that can’t be compared to?

  107. I made Poulet a la Poêle this evening. Came out great. The chicken was so juicy. Threw some potatoes and carrots in my dutch oven with it. Magnific!

  108. hi bidiong…that looks really good…what exactly is it?

    I tried looking at recipe and all the hits are in french…

    add french to the other languages i was never able to learn to speak…

  109. c’mon knew your knicks – you just making stuff up now…

    or space rock music.

    no way in the world is there a genre, sub genre, sub-atomic genre of music called “space rock”…

    are you high?

  110. howdy djphan…good to read your words…

    the world is right again, now I don’t have to bother doing any draft research myself at all…

    just kidding, hope you and your loved ones are all well…

  111. geo:
    c’mon knew your knicks – you just making stuff up now…

    no way in the world is there a genre, sub genre, sub-atomic genre of music called “space rock”…

    are you high?

    You got me man!
    I made that up!
    Since you like to ‘party’ check out a jamming band called Ozric Tentacles.
    You can listen whatever you like from them but their albums “Jurassic shift” and “Erpland” are a very nice place to start.

  112. I don’t know what gave you the impression I don’t listen to a ton of stuff from 1950-1999

  113. The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    I don’t know what gave you the impression I don’t listen to a ton of stuff from 1950-1999

    Probably your defense on the 00s/10s.
    I mean the quality comparison between the 2 eras seems unfair to me.
    On the other hand… tastes differ….

  114. man, jowles is a way old soul in a young man’s body…heck he makes me feel young sometimes…

    I still laugh to think I thought he had me by at least a decade…I can imagine a time or two you must have freaked out your folks – hey, where did our kid go? who’s this old man in his place?

    I was imagining just what space “rock” might sound like, but, the only thing that came to mind was some of vangelis’ music…and well, while a wonderful artist, probably not exactly rock like…

  115. Honestly, how many of those albums have you heard? Or better, really listened to?

  116. all right food and music…

    from the 2000’s – try a few from nick cave, drive by truckers, carolina chocolate drops, calexico, hold steady, white stripes, kendrick lamar etc…but yeah…i am a 70-90’s bias..

    been cookin like a fiend…did stuffed cabbage for passover…tonight chicken,artichoke and mushroom bake and tomorrow red snapper thai style on the grill

    nico mannion seems to be slippin…if he is there at the back end of the 1st round…could be worth a whirl…

    binge watched…ozark 3, expanse and zerozerozero…that was freakin good…

    Best was yesterday mornin…Knicks v Celts game 5 1990 on NBA TV..everytime I watch it …i get happy…forget how awesome oakley was at boarding in his prime…johnny neu was at his peak and mark jackson was moping on the bench as cheeks showed him how it was done…and stu jackson was pumped in the 4th quarter and bird missing a dunk…tons of good shit in that one with ewing hitting the fadeaway 3 to seal it…

  117. geo:
    man, jowles is a way old soul in a young man’s body…heck he makes me feel young sometimes…

    I still laugh to think I thought he had me by at least a decade…I can imagine a time or two you must have freaked out your folks – hey, where did our kid go? who’s this old man in his place?

    I was imagining just what space “rock” might sound like, but, the only thing that came to mind was some of vangelis’ music…and well, while a wonderful artist, probably not exactly rock like…

    There’s space music in general which is music that gives you the impression that you’re somewhere over the atmosphere!
    It’s mostly created by synthesizers and effects.
    There’s space ambient music which is close to only a few Vangelis stuff and its related to Electronic music.
    And there’s also space rock which is a mix of space with rock.
    Space can also be found in more music genres depending on the mix of space music with pop or jazz or metal or anything you can think of.

  118. also on that knick game telecast it is hubie and stockton and you can tell hubie is happy the knicks pulled it out…his bias comes through…

  119. The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    Honestly, how many of those albums have you heard? Or better, really listened to?

    Tbh not many
    Animal collective which i expected to be great but find it very predictable and not much exciting
    Swans which i got on cd and i like but i wouldn’t call it great
    Also tried to give a few spins on Kendrick Lamar Madvillain and Fleet foxes but i was disappointed and decided to abort mission listening complete albums.
    Pom pom is the only one i d like to listen sooner or later since i dig these guys.

  120. Idk…maybe i have a problem with the more mainstream stuff since i continue listening to artists from the last 20yrs but as i said MOSTLY from the prog psych space field.

  121. Death Grips was after my time. I think if I had been 25 I would have fallen in love but it was a little tough to get through with a new baby around.

  122. My interest in new music died somewhere around the end of the grunge period. Since then I’ve mostly been searching backwards through the 1900s-1960s. I’ve have found all sorts of great jazz, blues, bluegrass, ragtime and even a little country that I loved. Not much of the modern music can hold my attention past listening once. I’m not sure why. Maybe it’s out there but I just haven’t found something that touches me yet.

  123. I do not advise listening to Death Grips with a baby around, but it’s probably representative of living with a toddler

  124. Perfect soundtrack to bang your head against the wall in frustration after you let the diaper slip on the floor….

    I need to watch The Wire

  125. Owen: I need to watch The Wire

    Yes. You do. Honestly, I’m not a crime drama kind of guy, but it kept me riveted as a graphic portrayal of a second-tier American city from the police department out. Some overdone parts, especially in season 5, but all-in-all a masterpiece.

  126. @THCJ — its interesting to me that you’re meh on arcade fire. Suburbs isn’t even their best album and Reflektor + Black Orpheus = a beautiful visual album: https://vimeo.com/83703504

    Speaking of visual albums — anybody here like the books? They’ve got a wonderful line that applies to today’s environment, “enjoy your worries, you may never have them again.”

  127. I like The Stepien a lot, but they tend to fall in love with their ability to scout and it causes them to be too high on guys with god awful statistical profiles. Also, the inherent necessity of nuance if you make draft analysis your full-time thing means they can’t really outright say “this is guy is almost definitely going to suck in the NBA.”

    I mean, case in point… https://www.thestepien.com/kevin-knox/

  128. For those who enjoyed The Wire, you might want to check out its precursor The Corner, which was shown on HBO and may be available on one of its ancillary services. Based on a book written by David Simon and Ed Burns, it stars the great Khandi Alexander and Clarke Peters.

  129. When four of five bullet points refer to size and age, you know a bust is a-comin’.

    What a dreadful lottery pick.

  130. thenoblefacehumper:
    I like The Stepien a lot, but they tend to fall in love with their ability to scout and it causes them to be too high on guys with god awful statistical profiles. Also, the inherent necessity of nuance if you make draft analysis your full-time thing means they can’t really outright say “this is guy is almost definitely going to suck in the NBA.”

    I mean, case in point… https://www.thestepien.com/kevin-knox/

    I mean they ranked Knox in Tier 5 and #23 overall, which was lower than most at the time. I don’t think we’d be nearly as bummed with him if we drafted him after #23. They said his best case was an off-ball versatile floor spacer on O and a “versatile” defender, which is probably a euphemistic way of saying that he won’t be great on either end.

    I still hold out hope for Knox, he’s always appeared to me like a grounded kid but a teenybopper emotionally who just isn’t ready to play in a grown man’s league. The game seems too fast and too physical for him right now, but he’s shown good things here and there. I’ll give him another 2 years before giving up on him.

  131. I mean, this assessment of Knox’s weaknesses from The Stepien seems pretty prescient in hindsight:

    -Really disappointed with his quick twitch athletic ability or lack thereof this year. I misevaluated his athletic ability coming into season and he lacks the burst and vertical pop to consistently get to and finish at the rim.
    -Hasn’t shown the ability to create his own offense, at least not efficiently. Post ups are probably the best bet for that but teams will likely want him for the space he can provide as the nominal 4 and using him as a post player would take away that advantage.
    -Low to mid 30s on 3s this year, is a big step forward and the 77% FT is promising but still far from a sure thing as a jump shooter. Has some flashes of decent vision but looks for his own shot the majority of the time, not a great playmaker.
    -Not comfortable handling outside straight line drives. Often struggled creating off the dribble in half court and didn’t always show the best awareness and shot selection: dribbling into crowds, committing unforced turnovers and taking highly contested mid range shots off the dribble.
    -Far from consistent on defense, and while his physical tools should allow him to not be a huge liability defensively, he hasn’t exactly shown the proclivity to make a big impact on that end of the floor. Effort waned at times and would too often lose focus and “relax” in off ball situations.
    -Toughness and willingness to be physical is a bit of a question. Some of his inability to create off the dribble could be attributed to disappointing first step and unpolished handle but at times settled for floaters and mid range pull ups when an open lane was available. Does he lack awareness or assertiveness or doesn’t love contact? Not sure but none of those are good.

  132. Almost all the music I like from 2000 on is not mainstream music, it’s just about all in the indie world. This isn’t a coincidence, starting in the late 90’s major labels abandoned anything that wasn’t an instant moneymaker.

    I’m an omnivore, I like lots of things in different genres: I love the last couple of Tyler The Creator albums and also Kacey Musgraves. I love Jeff Parker’s last few albums, I love extreme metal bands like Krallice and Blood Incantation, I love electronic/synth stuff like Oneohtrix Point Never and Boards Of Canada, I love avant- pop like FKA Twigs, smart indie rock like Deerhunter and Kurt Vile, bedroom pop savants like Alex G, legacy bands like Yo La Tengo who continue to make great records…

    I’m 48 but I’m always finding new stuff to be excited about.

  133. I just don’t know how someone could listen to the incredible arrangements and performances on albums like Joanna Newsom’s Have One on Me, Father John Misty’s Pure Comedy, Weyes Blood’s Titanic Rising or Fleet Foxes’ Crack-Up and think, “Man, musicians used to be talented. What happened?”

    And re: Arcade Fire, it just never clicked for me. I’m going to listen to their debut today to see if anything’s changed.

    If you want to enjoy new music, you simply need to be open to it. If you go in thinking (as I did with Kendrick Lamar) that every acclaimed new artist is a product of the Pitchfork hype machine, you’re going to walk away empty-handed.

  134. The most fucked up thing about The Wire is that as dismal of a portrayal of Baltimore’s underbelly as it is, things have actually got worse since that time period. The violent crime rate has escalated to all-time highs in recent years. Yet like many cities of today, the underlying issues of poverty, crime, drugs, terrible schools, etc., especially as they impact communities of color, have been swept further under a rug of Times Square-style business improvement districts. It’s like The Wire actually sugar-coated things.

  135. I gave Ariel Pink’s stuff a good, long listen. I just couldn’t turn the corner on it. Just too many key/tempo fluctuations for me to handle. Maybe I’ll come around as I did on smoky/peaty single malts, which I hated on first sampling.

  136. Check out the new Yves Tumor album “Heaven To A Tortured Mind.” Even if I hadn’t played on most of it, it would probably be my favorite album of the year so far.

  137. i never really liked the stepien’s draft coverage…. in fact i think a lot of draft coverage these days is pretty lazy and quite poor…. and they all sort of borrow opinions and analysis from each other and you wind up with this mass herding where everyone’s mocks look roughly the same…. that’s how you get guys like lamelo and cole anthony still in people’s top 10….

    i think that’s sort of mirrored where the nba has headed…. where good decisions and analysis aren’t rewarded as much as who you know and it’s quite possible that a lot of these rankings are influenced by agents…. that’s sort of the conspiracy side of me talking but i don’t know how else to explain how cole is still talked about as a lotto pick at this point….

  138. Let’s remember that it’s really tough to analyze 18 year olds. Nobody gets them all right, especially when you eliminate the consensus guys like Zion and Towns.

  139. JK47:
    Almost all the music I like from 2000 on is not mainstream music, it’s just about all in the indie world. This isn’t a coincidence, starting in the late 90’s major labels abandoned anything that wasn’t an instant moneymaker.

    I’m an omnivore, I like lots of things in different genres: I love the last couple of Tyler The Creator albums and also Kacey Musgraves. I love Jeff Parker’s last few albums, I love extreme metal bands like Krallice and Blood Incantation, I love electronic/synth stuff like Oneohtrix Point Never and Boards Of Canada, I love avant- pop like FKA Twigs, smart indie rock like Deerhunter and Kurt Vile, bedroom pop savants like Alex G, legacy bands like Yo La Tengo who continue to make great records…

    I’m 48 but I’m always finding new stuff to be excited about.

    As a junky Lp/Cd Collector i have an undeniable for me sign that tells me that i really like/I’m excited with something:
    “MUST get it on vinyl or at least on cd”
    I miss this feeling with most releases from the last 20yrs (except psych/prog/space releases).

  140. The Honorable Cock Jowles:

    If you want to enjoy new music, you simply need to be open to it. If you go in thinking (as I did with Kendrick Lamar) that every acclaimed new artist is a product of the Pitchfork hype machine, you’re going to walk away empty-handed.

    Maybe you’re right but maybe also there’s a stagnation in music industry since it’s not so easy to create something new and exciting after all that’s been recorded for so many decades in the jazz, pop, rock, electro fields.
    Music Technology looks not so creative also to come up with revolutionary stuff and change everything as we know it.
    For example music change a lot after the use of electricity, synthesizers, effects, pedals, different sound engineering over the decades.

  141. Part of the appeal of APHG is the sheer diversity of it. Pink is a musical chameleon; if you don’t like wild genre shifts and homage, it’s probably not for you. Most of my friends don’t like it because it’s too out there. Sucks for them.

  142. Happy 80th birthday Herbie Hancock. Second concert I ever went to. (First was Taj Mahal. Life was pretty much downhill after those two.)

  143. Don’t want to sound nostalgic or conservative or I don’t know what else but i feel the same way as with dramatic actors.
    I get the impression that the new generation ain’t as talented as the previous ones.
    On the other hand i feel that the new generation comedians are on a very high level.
    But all these are just my impressions.

  144. Raven:
    Happy 80th birthday Herbie Hancock. Second concert I ever went to. (First was Taj Mahal. Life was pretty much downhill after those two.)

    Holy shit !
    I was ready to post that i listened to Hancock’s Thrust today on vinyl and grooved the whole neighborhood and just saw your post!
    And also its HHs birthday!?!
    What a couple of Coincidences!

  145. Thanks for the link, Clashfan. It seems like good news to me, although very modestly good news. Basically, with our team you have to be open to trading most or all of the players. But I still like it that Randle is the one mentioned. I’m sure he has value around the league and he is our top scorer, but he doesn’t fit well with the Knicks lineup and he does dribble too much. I want more passing and movement and less dribbling.

Comments are closed.