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Saturday, July 20, 2019

Knicks Morning News (2019.07.07)

  • [SNY Knicks] Trading for Russell Westbrook alone doesn’t make much sense for the Knicks
    (Saturday, July 06, 2019 9:33:08 PM)

    Unless they want to renege on agreements with their new free agents, the Knicks can’t complete a trade for Russell Westbrook prior to December 15. They only have $4 million in cap space, not close to enough to absorb the $38.5 million he’s scheduled to make next season.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks’ RJ Barrett not overreacting to shooting struggles in Summer League debut
    (Saturday, July 06, 2019 8:38:43 PM)

    RJ Barrett isn’t going to make too much of his shooting in the Knicks’ first Summer League game.

  • [SNY Knicks] Dennis Smith Jr. enters the season with playoff expectations for the Knicks
    (Saturday, July 06, 2019 8:18:01 PM)

    LAS VEGAS – Dennis Smith Jr. is entering his first full season as a Knick and his third in the NBA. He sees it as an important year for him.

  • [SNY Knicks] Julius Randle pumped up about Knicks: ‘We’ve got dogs’
    (Saturday, July 06, 2019 12:29:16 PM)

    The Knicks’ biggest free agent signing, Julius Randle, believes there’s reason to be optimistic about this year’s team.

  • [NYPost] Knicks’ Dennis Smith Jr. has been changing his shot this offseason
    (Sunday, July 07, 2019 1:36:45 AM)

    LAS VEGAS — The Kristaps Porzingis trade netted cap space that didn’t ultimately net a superstar joining the squad. But it netted young point guard Dennis Smith Jr., who revealed Saturday he has spent his first Knicks offseason in North Carolina working diligently with assistant coach Keith Smart on changing the mechanics of his shot….

  • [NYPost] Dust has settled which means one thing: NBA power rankings
    (Saturday, July 06, 2019 11:56:32 PM)

    LAS VEGAS — There’s a new world order in the NBA. Figuring out that order is another beast. After Kawhi Leonard picked the Clippers late Friday night, and made it a stunner by ensuring that Paul George joined him there in a trade from the Thunder, the major free-agency sweepstakes are complete. The number of…

  • [NYPost] RJ Barrett taking his Knicks debut dud in stride
    (Saturday, July 06, 2019 6:07:43 PM)

    LAS VEGAS — The earthquake may have been the best part of RJ Barrett’s opening NBA night. The game being called in the fourth quarter amid precautionary concerns about the swaying scoreboard overshadowed Barrett’s dud-of-a-debut. Forcing many attempts, the lefty Duke product shot 4-for-18 — 1-for-8 from beyond the 3-point stripe — to tally 10…

  • [NYPost] USWNT’s Alex Morgan is wrong about her tea-sipping critics
    (Saturday, July 06, 2019 2:53:31 PM)

    I feel by pointing this out that Alex Morgan will understand I’m only doing what she would expect me to do: treat her exactly as I would a man. The U.S. Women’s national team plays the Netherlands on Sunday in the final step toward defending its Women’s World Cup championship. The team has been besieged…

  • [NYPost] Russell Westbrook to the Knicks wouldn’t work right now
    (Saturday, July 06, 2019 1:31:03 PM)

    LAS VEGAS — If on-the-block Thunder point guard Russell Westbrook is traded before the season starts, the Knicks will not be a good match assets-wise. With Saturday’s moratorium to make their six free-agent signings official, the Knicks will no longer have the cap space to absorb Westbrook’s supermax contract, which has him slated to make…

  • [NYPost] Zion Williamson’s NBA Summer League comes to a sad end
    (Saturday, July 06, 2019 12:34:19 PM)

    The Zion Williamson Show is taking a summer hiatus The Pelicans’ No. 1-overall pick in this year’s NBA draft will sit out the rest of NBA Summer League after bruising his left knee on Friday against the Knicks. “Zion will move forward from this incident without issue,” Pelicans Executive Vice President of Basketball Operations David…

  • [NYPost] Kawhi Leonard’s call to Kevin Durant nearly changed everything
    (Saturday, July 06, 2019 9:05:36 AM)

    For all the helicopters that tracked Kawhi Leonard’s every move, his free-agency remained a mystery until news broke Saturday morning that he’d be teaming up with Paul George in Clippers land. Now, details are beginning to trickle out. Leonard called Kevin Durant, before free agency opened on July 30, to see whether Durant had any…

  • [NYPost] Julius Randle: Joining the Knicks is a ‘dream come true’
    (Saturday, July 06, 2019 7:37:09 AM)

    LAS VEGAS — Julius Randle wanted the Knicks as much as they wanted him. He believed the chance to play for “a starving fan base’’ in a city considered the best to win was too much to pass up. The centerpiece of the Knicks’ six-player, free-agent frenzy dropped by the Knicks’ summer-league opener against the…

  • [NBA] New York Knicks Sign Second-Round Draft Pick Ignas Brazdeikis
    (Saturday, July 06, 2019 3:12:23 PM)

    NEW YORK, NY (July 6, 2019) – The New York Knicks announced today that the team has signed forward Ignas Brazdeikis to a

  • [NBA] 2019 Knicks Summer League Matchups
    (Saturday, July 06, 2019 3:38:18 PM)

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    268 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2019.07.07)

    1. alsep73

      Shouldn’t we trading for westbrook ?
      Knox smith plus recent signing and 1 first round pick. Will it work for that cost?

      It’s not just about how many assets it would cost us, but about how much cap space that contract would eat up as Westbrook’s athleticism — the key to his entire game — waned as he approached his mid-30s. That contract is a ticking time bomb. The hardest of passes.

    2. Z-man

      I would be mortified if we brought in Westbrook. He is the antithesis of the kind of player I like to root for. And to actually give up assets for him? A guy who will get paid $47 million at age 34??? Ugh!

    3. mase

      Let me get this straight; the raptors turned down Russ and pg13 and preferred to get nothing back for Kawhi instead let him walk for nothing !

      That means the okc haul could’ve been the raptors haul, All for the price Of Russ ?

    4. Z-man

      Nice article on Dennis Smith Jr. Seems like he is working hard on fixing that broken shot of his. I totally lost faith in him last year, half because of his shooting form and half because of his low b-ball IQ. But he’s definitely worth another look and Elfrid was a good pickup to set up a competition in training camp.

      The article also mentions that the Knicks need to make a decision on Frank’s 4th year option by October. Is there really a decision to make? Not unless he shows something in France.

    5. Z-man

      Let me get this straight; the raptors turned down Russ and pg13 and preferred to get nothing back for Kawhi instead let him walk for nothing !

      If anyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, it’s Masai. No one on this lofty board is claiming to be a better GM than him.

    6. Brian Cronin

      Kawhi never even told the Raptors that he would definitely sign with them if they got Westbrook and George. With that in mind, it would have been madness to add those two on the chance that it would make Kawhi re-sign there. On the other hand, the Clippers were essentially told by Kawhi, “You get George, I will sign with you,” hence their greater willingness to surrender so many assets.

    7. Brian Cronin

      I read a good Athletic article about how foolish the Mavericks’ Danny Green courtship was, as they only would have been able to sign him had Kawhi chosen to sign with the Lakers (as if Kawhi signed with Toronto, Green would have returned to Toronto and if Kawhi signed with the Clippers, Green would sign with the Lakers), and so they pinned their hopes on Kawhi joining one specific team while similar players to Green fell off of the board. Dallas’ offseason has not been impressive, so I wonder if they’ll try to get in on any possible OKC sell-offs.

    8. mase

      @6

      Even if Toronto didn’t have the guarantee … if he bolts Masai has two huge chips to rebuild with.

      Masai gambled and lost.

    9. Owen

      If anyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, it’s Masai. No one on this lofty board is claiming to be a better GM than him.

      Seriously. We’d all be company men if he were in charge, quite happily so.

      What would it be like waking up every morning without the fear that something Knicksy had happened while we slept.

    10. Z-man

      Masai didn’t gamble and lose. He balanced the two outcomes, and hedged his bets on the side of cap space and roster flexibility. No GM in the league is better at turning over a roster than Masai. Westbrook is the absolute worst contract in the league among upper-tier players. Bringing him on board at the cost of a boatload of assets (starting with a young fringe all-star on a rookie deal Siakam) is about as dumb of a move as a GM could make.

    11. Knew Your Nicks

      After watching Ujiri trading to get Kawhi for a year rental i said to myself: “Ha ha ha…He’s just an overhyped gm”
      After watching 2019 playoffs myself told me: “SHUT UP” !

    12. Z-man

      I’m coming around on the strategy of team. Perry/Mills have put themselves in a good position to be opportunistic going forward. Instead of renting cap space to acquire picks by taking on “undesirable” contracts, they viewed the players they acquired on “desirable” contracts as assets themselves. It makes sense in a way. Rather than tie up cap space this year in guys that can’t help in return for picks, tie up the space in players that might be useful to other teams as the season unfolds and get the picks later. Put a hard-nosed, scrappy, well-balanced team on the floor so you don’t take a beating in the court of public opinion, and let contending teams come to you….or just keep the pieces you want and let the rest go via team options. Not how I would have done it, but definitely a plausible strategy. Not crazy at all.

    13. Z-man

      After watching Ujiri trading to get Kawhi for a year rental

      It wasn’t just that…he actually unloaded an undesirable long-term contract in making that trade. It was a great trade regardless of whether Kawhi stayed or left.

    14. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, a lot of us were saying before that offseason began that it might make sense to dump DeRozan’s contract, and he ended up getting Kawhi freakin’ Leonard in the process!

    15. ptmilo

      trying to fall asleep last night i was thinking about what current team asset has been rolled-forward from the oldest date. the best i could come up with was the memphis loot from the gasol trade: valanciunas, wright (if they keep him) and a 2nd. those guys started out as their (Vancouver’s) 1996 #3 abdur-rahim. he produced 5-6 good years then was swapped for 2001 #3 Pau. He did the same and then of course was traded for Marc. that’s pretty good, though you can argue that valanciunas shouldn’t really count if you want to eliminate players that resign us UFAs. obviously the celtics still have assets from the Nets trade, which you can sort of date back to al jefferson for KG, but that’s only partial and also not as old as abdur-rahim. any better ones?

    16. BJ

      Apparently Toronto never had the pieces to compete with the Clips offer, Presti was mostly using them as a stalking horse to extract the biggest possible return from LA. Is anyone reporting differently?

    17. Brian Cronin

      though you can argue that valanciunas shouldn’t really count if you want to eliminate players that resign us UFAs

      I think that you have to count re-signed free agents.

      any better ones?

      How about this?

      Christian Laettner was drafted in 1992 and then traded (a bunch of times) until he was eventually traded for Erick Dampier who was then traded for Tyson Chandler who was then traded to the Knicks for Jose Calderon, who was then traded to the Bulls for Derrick Rose and a second rounder that became Damyean Dotson, who is still on the Knicks.

    18. BJ

      @ BC I THINK THE POINT OF Ptmilo’s GAME is to track the asset flips on the same team (complicated a bit in his example by franchise moving cities) sorry for all caps noticed too late too lazy to retype

    19. Brian Cronin

      Aha. Well, Laettner never changed teams as a free agent until the end of his career, so I guess he was the team asset for most of that journey, no?

    20. Ingmarrrr

      What do you do about this year if you’re Masai? Do you leave the team as is, settles on a 2nd round exit and waits for the next opportunity? Or do you trade Lowry for future assets? Do you trade for Lowry if you’re Milwaukee?

    21. ptmilo

      yeah @20 is right i was (ridiculously) thinking about a situation in which a particular team has kept an asset “live” the longest, and still exists for them today. still, i love reading those kind of chains brian posted. trust me when i say you don’t want to play six degrees of hernangomez with BC.

    22. BJ

      13@Zman Exactly!! Just because they are doing something that wasn’t “optimal rebuild strategy” under the old draft rules doesn’t mean it is necessarily wrong. Young guys on short term deals that capture upside. A couple guys at the end of their primes who are solid producers also on short term deals. No one on an untradeable deal. There was a time when this blog would have been ecstatic over an outcome like that…

    23. Early Bird

      You make the trade for Westbrook if you think Russ+Mitch+Randle+Bullock+Ellington is competitive. Or if you think RJ will breakout by year 2, maybe 3.

      Although that’s not a bad team, no one here should mistake it for a competitive team. Hard pass unless we end up with another star or 2.

    24. Brian Cronin

      I try to get another wing with the MLE and then run it back and then retool next season. Siakim will definitely be the future centerpiece of the team (along with Anunoby and VanVleet), but that can wait a year. Their veterans are making soooooo much money that I find it hard to believe there is a real market for any of them. The only reason Gasol even got Valanciunas was because Valanciunas was a free agent himself. The Raptors without Leonard were still a decent team last season. I mean, for crying out loud, they won 17 out of 22 games without him! Including back-to-back 20 point drubbings of the Clippers and Warriors on the road (Curry and Durant played for the Warriors in the loss, by the way, just in case you thought it was a Curry/Durant-less Warriors squad)!

    25. Stratomatic: Management consists of talent evaluation, fitting pieces together coherently, & contract/valuation level decisions. The Knicks are bad at all three.

      I read a good Athletic article about how foolish the Mavericks’ Danny Green courtship was, as they only would have been able to sign him had Kawhi chosen to sign with the Lakers (as if Kawhi signed with Toronto, Green would have returned to Toronto and if Kawhi signed with the Clippers, Green would sign with the Lakers), and so they pinned their hopes on Kawhi joining one specific team while similar players to Green fell off of the board. Dallas’ offseason has not been impressive, so I wonder if they’ll try to get in on any possible OKC sell-offs.

      I’ve never been a fan of Cuban’s basketball decisions, but from what I’ve been reading lately I think he’s on the right track now. He may fail to get what he wants/needs. That’s a different issue.

      The point I am making is that at least now it appears he understands what he needs to compliment Doncic and KP based on the players he has actually been targeting. Most of the hard part is done. They aren’t going anywhere special for at least 2 more years anyway as those guys develop. He’s got plenty of time to fill out his team. The only thing he shouldn’t do is panic and overpay someone long term just to get a good player.

    26. Stratomatic: Management consists of talent evaluation, fitting pieces together coherently, & contract/valuation level decisions. The Knicks are bad at all three.

      I don’t think Masai is too worried even if he’s disappointed. The Raptors were still pretty good last year when Kawhi didn’t play and he’s got a rising star in Siakim and some complimentary young pieces to start building around going forward. He’ll be back in business quickly.

    27. Ingmarrrr

      @27 yeah maybe you owe it to the team and the fans to give it another go.

      If I’m Milwaukee or any of the LA teams I try as hard as I can with any assets I have left to trade for Lowry. I think he puts any of these 3 over the top.

    28. Stratomatic: Management consists of talent evaluation, fitting pieces together coherently, & contract/valuation level decisions. The Knicks are bad at all three.

      The most interesting team in the east is the Celtics.

      Everyone thinks they are screwed because they lost Irving and Horford, but I think Kemba is going to be very productive for Boston. Gordon Hayward was slowly improving all year and should probably be back to 100% this year. The problem is Horford/Baynes. No only are they losing an elite defender and very good backup at C, they are replacing them with Kanter. They need some defense in the middle. They have this kid Robert Williams who I guess is sort of like Mitchell Robinson in that he blocks a lot of shots and scores effectively inside on low volume, but I doubt he’ll be ready for a big role on a serious team unless the Celtics are working some development magic as we speak. If they find a defensive C, they are still in the mix and could even be better this year, but Horford is tough to replace.

    29. alsep73

      If I’m Milwaukee or any of the LA teams I try as hard as I can with any assets I have left to trade for Lowry.

      I just tried a couple of scenarios on the trade machine, and none of them work. He makes a LOT of money this year, and the only matching salaries would involve players those teams recently acquired and are building around.

    30. Ingmarrrr

      @32 maybe you involve a 3rd team, one with tradable assets after Dec. 15 :)
      (I’m not saying it would work, just trolling)

    31. Hugo Busto

      Heat are definitely interested in RWB.

      Russ and JIMMY is the duo we need, would be hilarious.

      Although trading with them is kind of interesting from OKC perspective as they own 2 of their picks.

    32. Stratomatic: Management consists of talent evaluation, fitting pieces together coherently, & contract/valuation level decisions. The Knicks are bad at all three.

      I wonder when the owners are going to realize that giving out long term contracts to star players is not necessarily as good a deal as it used to be anymore. Now that star players can force themselves off teams in the middle or even early in their contracts, the deal has become:

      If the player lives up to contract in terms or productivity, I have no guarantee he will stay for the duration of the contract or that I’ll get back equal value or players that fit my timeline when he forces himself out.

      If the player gets hurt or disappoints in terms of productivity, I am stuck with him for the duration of the contract.

      You would think teams are going to at least be more careful that the player in question actually wants to live and play in that city before committing.

    33. ess-dog

      I can’t imagine Westbrook trying to share the ball with Jimmy Butler. That will be explosive.

      Idk I’d look into a Westbrook trade simply because I don’t believe in our young guys (except Mitch). If the trade involved too many draft picks, I’d balk, but Russell/Randle/Mitch is a nice little core. Then NYK becomes a legit spot for a real 1st and 3rd guy, and we have a lot of salary we can shed at a moments notice.

      It’s not the smartest move, maybe, but it’s defensible. And I think Russ could age well if he focuses on his role as a real pg and less of a Harden-style chucker.

    34. bobneptune

      It’s not the smartest move, maybe, but it’s defensible. And I think Russ could age well if he focuses on his role as a real pg and less of a Harden-style chucker.

      Paying RW > 40M in his middle thirties to compile huge numbers on awful efficiency is (Me7o)^(10)^(100)

    35. ess-dog

      Yeah, I mean will he make the necessary changes in his game to win, probably not. But if he could, I think he could get back to mvp-level play.

    36. Name is Bron - James Bron

      his shot from high school to duke did get a lot better…. so i’m pretty sure he’ll continue to make progress there even though it might not be evident his rookie year

      RJ’s Stats his final year in high school:
      FT%…. 64.8%
      3FG%..34.4%
      FG%…..50%

    37. Stratomatic: Management consists of talent evaluation, fitting pieces together coherently, & contract/valuation level decisions. The Knicks are bad at all three.

      @39

      I’m less worried about RJ’s shot than how slow he looked to me. At least you can get better at shooting. You can’t fix slow. Time and slowly adding weight usually make you slower. I’m hoping it was just circumstantial and we’ll see better quickness tonight.

    38. ess-dog

      Fortunately, it’s impossible for us to do rn and someone else will swoop in and get a trade done soon.

    39. Stratomatic: Management consists of talent evaluation, fitting pieces together coherently, & contract/valuation level decisions. The Knicks are bad at all three.

      I don’t think Russ has the mental makeup to change his game. Part of what made him a great player won’t allow him to change.

    40. BJ

      @21 BC Just because it’s a fun thing to think about and I want you to get it, lets play pt’s game using your example. We could start with the Mavs turning Antawn Jamison into Devin Harris, Jerry Stackhouse and Christian Laettner. Then as you said they turn Laettner plus more into Dampier who eventually gets the mavs Tyson. The Mavs then sign and trade Tyson in a 3 way and get back Andy Rautins and a future Washington 2nd rounder. Of course they also sent out a 2nd and other draft rights so not sure if their return is mostly from facilitating tyson’s free agency or other things they gave up. Rautins was waived and I’m not sure what that 2nd rounder turned into…

    41. E

      I wouldn’t give up a single asset for Russell F Westbrook. OKC should be sending assets with him.

    42. Stratomatic: Management consists of talent evaluation, fitting pieces together coherently, & contract/valuation level decisions. The Knicks are bad at all three.

      Those trade strings are fun, but they don’t have much value because different teams have different priorities at different times and random injuries and pure luck (positive and negative) in the draft will impact the ultimate result without telling you anything about the intrinsic value of the trade. The winner of a trade will sometimes come out on the short end it and vice versa entirely due to luck and not value.

    43. Stratomatic: Management consists of talent evaluation, fitting pieces together coherently, & contract/valuation level decisions. The Knicks are bad at all three.

      I wouldn’t give up a single asset for Russell F Westbrook. OKC should be sending assets with him.

      +1

    44. Bruno Almeida

      Yeah, no Westbrook under any circumstances. There’s no assets OKC can attach to a trade that would be worth taking on Westbrook at 4 years 40+ million a year. He’s obviously a good player but he doesn’t play well with other stars and is not efficiency enough to be the main star on a contender. If we trade for him we’d be stuck in 2017 Thunder mode until he declines athletically and we’re stuck with an even worse albatross.

    45. BJ

      Russ had a down year. To me that makes him a potential buy low candidate rather than a toxic negative asset. Yes he can hold you back if he is inefficient but he has proven that he can be efficient and his shooting percentages are much more likely to regress to his mean than nosedive like some here are predicting. Westbrook is not Melo. That is just silly. This team could reconfigure itself around Russ pretty quickly given the flexibility we have. Anyway this couldn’t even happen until December not worth spilling ink or tears over now…

    46. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Russ will never be 27 again. You can talk about hypotheticals all day, but a fearless rim-attacking 6’3” chucker PG is the last guy I’d want on my team at $45M at age 34.

      If this team had a 50-win core and a gaping hole at PG, you take him and roll the dice. If a past-30 Westbrook is the centerpiece of your 17-win rebuild, you are hopelessly fucked.

    47. thenoblefacehumper

      People are really entertaining the Westbrook thing? I thought it was just something people were teasing Knicks fans about because of how obviously stupid it would be. Huh.

    48. Z-man

      Russ is not Melo. He is worse. He is by far the most self-absorbed player in the NBA. He plays his ass off and he plays to win, but he doesn’t get the concept of “making your teammates better.” Take a good look at his stats. In his “best” year, he had a 41% usage rate and a 57% assist %. That means that the ball was in his hands more than any player in NBA history, and even then, he has a mediocre 55% TS%. And that was at his peak! His TS% the last two years was well below league average! His career TS% in the playoffs is .513, and in 9 appearances it was never above .539 except for his first playoff foray with KD, Harden and Ibaka.

      I would never, ever want him on our team, even at his best. And now he’s going to get paid over 50% what he was making then? For his declining years?? On the near zero chance that he changes his game for the better??

    49. d-mar

      I don’t think I’d go for Russ even if he was a free agent. Trading anything of value for him? No way.

    50. alsep73

      Too much of Russ’ game is dependent on his otherworldly athleticism for that contract to be a safe investment as he goes into his mid 30s.

    51. Jack Bauer

      The Knicks should treat Westbrook like he’s radioactive- stay away. Far away

    52. alsep73

      Obviously, RJ looked awful the other night. But it’s his first game, it’s summer league, etc. I’m remaining hopeful. Because I have to.

    53. BJ

      I feel like all this talk of 17 win baseline is specious. If you can bring in a legit max guy you bring him in. Especially if you are left with assets and aren’t saddled with bad contracts. I don’t think you can blame Russ for OKC bringing in Melo or playing other players that actively hurt their team on the court. Russ is not one of them and does not project to be one of them.

    54. djphan

      i don’t think just because you’re on the basketball court you should need to shoot 3s…. if mitch never develops a 3 pt shot i think that’s ok… he should really concentrate on the stuff that matters a lot more… like defense and staying on the floor…

    55. Knew Your Nicks

      I wouldn’t mind having Russel after completing his “Heroics Anonymous” program succesfully.

    56. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Rumors that Westbrook to Heat is possible. I wish we had some cap space to help open salary up… for a hefty number of picks…

    57. Z-man

      If you can bring in a legit max guy you bring him in.

      You obviously have a very broad definition of “legit max guy” if you include Russ in that group.

      I pity the fools that take on that contract.

    58. Stratomatic: Management consists of talent evaluation, fitting pieces together coherently, & contract/valuation level decisions. The Knicks are bad at all three.

      Bring back Gallo!

    59. Z-man

      The Heat would be a good landing spot for Russ. Glamour and glitz, and a need to attract fans. Plus, if he and Butler could figure it out, they could make a lot of noise in the regular season. They can probably make the salaries work too…Dragic would be the main piece in return…

    60. Stratomatic: Management consists of talent evaluation, fitting pieces together coherently, & contract/valuation level decisions. The Knicks are bad at all three.

      People are really entertaining the Westbrook thing? I thought it was just something people were teasing Knicks fans about because of how obviously stupid it would be. Huh.

      That’s the irony.

      It’s so dumb, it has to be a joke. But in NY we can’t take it as a joke because it could happen. lol

    61. Stratomatic: Management consists of talent evaluation, fitting pieces together coherently, & contract/valuation level decisions. The Knicks are bad at all three.

      The Celtics have interest in Serge Ibaka according to Celtic insider Quinn

      That could be the big man I was referring to earlier.

    62. Name is Bron - James Bron

      Mitch does not need to shoot threes jfc

      Did you have a chance to watch the NBA Finals? Guess who shot 3’s? Marc G. Yeah, that’s right..Pau’s bro. Marc (and Brook Lopez) didn’t start shooting 3’s until a couple of years ago. Raptors may not win that series if he’s not able to launch from the arc.

      I think you don’t quite get the difference between “need” and “desirable”. Mitch shooting 3’s and doing other stuff on offense might make him a Tier 1 star. Are you sure he’s not able to hit 3’s or attack close outs? We’re a sh!tty team – now’s the time to determine if there’s anything there. And it’s freakin’ summer league. He shouldn’t be playing if he’s not gonna try some new stuff on offense.

      I suspect there’s some sub-conscious racism at work here. Athletic black centers shouldn’t be shooting 3’s but it makes sense for not so athletic white guys like Marc and Brook. Yeah JFC is right.

    63. vincoug

      I’ve got a pretty good string with the Knicks though I don’t think there’s any current assets on the team.

      In 1972, the Knicks trade cash to the Houston Rockets for John Gianelli.

      In 1976, the Knicks trade John Gianelli to the Buffalo Braves for Bob McAdoo.

      In 1979, the Knicks trade Bob McAdoo to the Boston Celtics for the #3, #9, and #21 picks in the 1979 draft. With the 3rd pick in the 1979 draft the Knicks pick Bill Cartwright.

      In 1988, the Knicks trade Bill Cartwright to the Chicago Bulls for Charles Oakley.

      In 1998, the Knicks trade Charles Oakley to the Toronto Raptors for Marcus Camby.

      In 2002, the Knicks trade Marcus Camby to the Denver Nuggets for Antonio McDyess (and the infamous Maciej Lampe).

      In 2004, the Knicks trade Antonio McDyess to the Phoenix Suns for Stephon Marbury and Penny Hardaway.

      In 2006, Anfernee Hardaway is traded to the Orlando Magic for Steve Francis.

      In 2007, Steve Francis is traded to the Portland Trailblazers for Zach Randolph.

      In 2008, Zach Randolph is traded to the LA Clippers for Tim Thomas.

      In 2009, Tim Thomas is traded to the Chicago Bulls for Larry Hughes.

      In 2010, Larry Hughes is traded to the Kings in a 3-team trade for Tracy McGrady.

      There were other players and picks involved in most of these trades but I don’t feel like tracking them all down. But I think it’s pretty cool that a minor trade back in 1972 can be linked to a trade nearly 40 years later.

    64. TheConfuser

      Long time lurker — first time poster.

      Watched a lot of Duke ball this year and saw RJ play quite a lot. He had two modes. One is basically as a ghost — he’s in the game but not making any contributions. The other is basically a game changer. Tenacious and unstoppable. The ghost showed up a lot. But the other guy sometimes as well.

    65. KnickfaninNJ

      Marc Gasol and Brook Lopez both developed many ways to score inside before working on their three point shots. Robinson doesn’t seem to even have a five foot jumper and certainly doesn’t have a post up game other than lobs or dunks. He should work on scoring from short range in more ways before working on three pointers.

      If you want to make a case for racial bias, find some white player who is more comparable to Robinson in his starting skill set who worked on his three before getting a good inside game.

    66. JK47

      Acquiring Russell Westbrook in any fashion is a horrific fucking idea. I mean come on now.

    67. Knew Your Nicks

      Shooting 3s in the modern nba starts to seem as important as dribbling, passing or shooting free throws.
      Possibly being a basic skill for any position in the near future.

    68. Stratomatic: Management consists of talent evaluation, fitting pieces together coherently, & contract/valuation level decisions. The Knicks are bad at all three.

      @68

      IMO, there is no question that Mitch would be a more valuable player if he expanded his offensive arsenal to include 3 point shots (and also posting up and mid range shots) and used each when appropriate given the circumstances of the play and his level of skill at each.

    69. Stratomatic: Management consists of talent evaluation, fitting pieces together coherently, & contract/valuation level decisions. The Knicks are bad at all three.

      It should be clear that anyone on earth can develop a 3 point shot no matter how old, what color they are, which position they play, what team they play for etc… EXCEPT FRANK!!!! Frank is 20 years old already. No chance! :-)

    70. JK47

      Mitch is so talented at sports that I wouldn’t be surprised if he turned out to be a .400 shooter from 3PT someday. He is bursting at the seams with basketball talent.

      I wouldn’t rule out anything when it comes to that kid. He is very talented at sportsball.

    71. thenoblefacehumper

      Frank might develop a 3PT shot! Then he’d only be *checks notes* all of the other skills away from being playable.

    72. BigBlueAL

      I referenced to this late last night, the Knicks so quickly using up all their cap space mostly for useless role players is so stupid because of scenarios like Westbrook. By no means do I want them to trade for Westbrook but scenarios like his pop up all the time and the Knicks right now can’t participate because they have no cap space and players you sign in the offseason can’t be traded until I believe Dec 15. The Knicks with cap space could maybe be involved in a 3 team scenario to help facilitate a Westbrook trade and take back a player plus a draft pick but instead they’re content with signing Ellington, Bullock, Gibson and Portis. And no they are not tradeable assets, no team is gonna give up anything for them at the trade deadline, especially since you have to match salaries and 3 of those guys are making 10m+ this season.

      I actually really like signing Randle and Payton, have no problem with jumping on them real quick. But again why in the world would they be in such a hurry to sign the other 4 guys which essentially takes them out of any possible moves for the rest of the summer. So shortsighted.

    73. thenoblefacehumper

      Mitch definitely doesn’t need a 3PT shot, but I’d have no problem with him seeing what he can do with it in the damn summer league. Even during the season, I don’t think we’ll be sweating our place in the standings.

      Of course, if it’s not happening the coaching staff has to make sure he’s ready to stick to what works.

    74. alsep73

      Funny that Ibaka should come up while we’re also discussing transactions with a long tail. Zach Lowe spent long swaths of both of this weekend’s podcasts marveling at how the Thunder eventually turned Ibaka into this monster haul the Clippers gave them for Paul George. Not quite “I traded a stick of gum into something better, and kept going until I traded my way into a house,” but still impressive.

    75. alsep73

      Hopefully, Mike Miller can have the same kind of impact on the prospects on the big club as he’s had developing guys in Westchester.

    76. JK47

      It should be clear that anyone on earth can develop a 3 point shot no matter how old, what color, which position they play, what team they play for etc… EXCEPT FRANK!!!! Dude is 20 years old already. No chance! :-)

      Ah, see though, here’s the thing. Frank also stinks at lots of other basic fundamental basketball things. Frank has nowhere near the innate talent of a guy like Mitch.

      When you watch Mitch, his talent level just jumps off the screen. When you watch Frank, it makes you think “has this guy ever played this sport before?” He has no skill with the ball and mediocre athleticism. He really does not inspire “wow, sky’s the limit with this kid” kind of observations.

    77. Knew Your Nicks

      I guess its pretty cool being a Center against ADavis, RGobert and JEmbiid and makin them chase you on the 3pt line .. ..
      Makes the paint less hostile for the other 4 of your team..

    78. TheClashFan

      I don’t want Westbrook, but I wish the Knicks had some cap room to get involved if/when he is dealt to Miami. They could have offered to take a bad Heat contract to help facilitate the deal in exchange for a pick or two from Miami or OKC. But, hey, maybe at $15m Bobby Portis will be a steal! Or not.

      Mitch doesn’t need to take threes…he needs to take (and hit) free throws.

      I suppose if OKC was going to include multiple first round picks for RWB, I’d listen, but it would have to be a lot of picks. But, they’re not going to do that. It’s all moot until December. If OKC is still trying to move him, the Knicks should listen, but he’s got too many years on his deal.

    79. Stratomatic: Management consists of talent evaluation, fitting pieces together coherently, & contract/valuation level decisions. The Knicks are bad at all three.

      @77 You think that because you are more interested in a player’s rating on a broken model than how he can impact a game of basketball with the skills he does have and the right teammates.

      On this team, it’s somewhat likely Robinson’s decision making would be poor because they’d have him doing a bunch of crap he shouldn’t be doing. So we are probably better off if he just dunks a few times game until he eventually asks for a trade.

      @82

      I agree that Mitch has much more natural talent and a much higher ceiling. I disagree on Frank’s value now and his potential.

    80. JK47

      The Mets have to shitcan Brodie Van Wagenen, right? Surely they are not going to let that guy continue to make decisions. I mean this is all going very badly.

    81. JK47

      Frank might develop a 3PT shot! Then he’d only be *checks notes* all of the other skills away from being playable.

      Hey, he can fight through screens pretty good. So that, and the hypothetical three point shot. Dribbling, schmibbling. Dude is THISCLOSE to blowing the fuck up.

    82. TheClashFan

      @86
      I’ve read he has a guaranteed contract for something like 4 years. The scary thing is reports that he’s looking to deal for a reliever or two. So, more prospects from the thin farm system may be outgoing. The Wilpons will be very loath to eat his deal, so at best they’d just take all his power away, but then who makes the calls? A horrible mess for NY’s worst run team.

      He’s still probably forcing the team to put Cano in the three spot. Despite his recent “hot” streak, he’s still hitting in the .230’s and not driving in runs despite 2 all-stars (inc. MLB’s best hitter) hitting in front of him.

      As I type this, the Mets are being no-hit into the 6th inning… Down 6-0.

    83. TheClashFan

      @88
      I was horrified when they hired him. What’s funny is some lauded the Mets “outside the box” decision.

      Hilariously, he continues to try to blame the coaches for all his horrible failings as a GM. What an epic of a bad offseason he had. It will hurt for many years to come.

      Phil Regan should have stood up at the meeting when BVW threw the chair and shamed him.

    84. BigBlueAL

      I just honestly don’t understand what in the world people who love Frank see in him. His stats are beyond God awful and he does not pass the “eye” test either. He looks awful too. I can understand if people saw him in college and he was good so you fell in love with him as a prospect and hope to see him do well but nobody ever saw Frank play before he got to the NBA and if you go on what he’s done as a Knick then I really don’t know WTF people see in him.

      Don’t give me the he plays defense argument either. Someone mentioned Shump the other day and that’s actually a good example of someone who you see play and does make you irrational, he actually got steals and would show off his athleticism with alley oops and putback dunks that would give you hope. Plus offensively he actually did develop a decent 3pt shot although never came close to being a PG because he didn’t have great handles and couldn’t finish at the rim at all. But watching Shump you could see what people saw in him, watching Frank I don’t know how in the world people thought he was worthy of a lottery pick.

    85. JK47

      Let’s see, hire the stats-based, analytics guy, or the guy who is a player agent? Tough call there. Better hire the agent, he like knows all the players and stuff.

    86. d-mar

      Speaking of agents running teams, every time I see Rob Pelinka I can’t believe what an exact replica he is of Rob Lowe.

    87. TheClashFan

      @92
      Yet more proof that you can be completely stupid (Wilpons) and yet be rich.

      I guess they thought he’s some kind of super deal maker who would lure free agents to NY. Yup, he sure did, and look how those guys have fared. And that’s beside the awful big trade.

    88. vincoug

      The Mets have to shitcan Brodie Van Wagenen, right? Surely they are not going to let that guy continue to make decisions. I mean this is all going very badly.

      I’m shocked that hiring an agent for a GM instead of an analytics guy hasn’t worked out.

    89. JK47

      1. Trade for expensive old second baseman when you have an awesome second baseman on the roster making league minimum

      2. Sign another second baseman (Lowrie) even though now you already have two second basemen who need to start

      3. Ignore starting rotation and bullpen depth

      4. Throw furniture and blame (admittedly inept) manager when the whole thing goes to shit

    90. thenoblefacehumper

      You think that because you are more interested in a player’s rating on a broken model than how he can impact a game of basketball with the skills he does have and the right teammates.

      Lord give me the confidence of someone who said Phil Jackson had earned a B- 10 days before he was fired and still talks to people like this.

      I guess it’s possible every single statistical model is wrong by incalculable degrees of magnitude, the eyes of everyone here who sees the same shook and unskilled player I see are wrong, and all of the 29 GMs who wouldn’t trade a single second round pick for a former 8th overall pick on a rookie scale deal are wrong. But hey, I’ll take my chances!

    91. thenoblefacehumper

      What was BVW even upset about when he threw the chair? The fact that Callaway used the closer for which BVW himself basically paid 5/$100M?

    92. TheClashFan

      @97
      Now, let’s be fair, here!

      He DID sign bullpen depth. Familia for THREE YEARS! Hilarious. And the lefty FA he signed (I forget his name) who’s been mostly hurt and ineffective.

      He also got the Mets a brand new old and expensive catcher, Wilson Ramos, who apparently has totally forgotten how to catch and throw! And the new young closer he added had (known) bone spurs. But of course, the Mets deny that those are a problem….

      The Lowrie one was hilariously awful. Guy may not play this year. Don’t forget how he handled D’Arnaud and the Milwaukee OF he traded three prospects for. Both were dumped for nothing.

    93. TheClashFan

      @99
      He paid 5/$100m AND two top prospects for that closer. Who apparently had a known bone spur issue.

      He’s fired two coaches and was railing at the others. Can’t fire the manager b/c he’s basically a puppet just doing what BVW tells him.

    94. Name is Bron - James Bron

      I just honestly don’t understand what in the world people who love Frank see in him. His stats are beyond God awful and he does not pass the “eye” test either. He looks awful too.

      It’s not much of a mystery. I’ll spell it out for you and others.
      (1) He finished 1st in PnR defense as a 19yo rookie at his position according to Synergy. Has that ever even been done before, at any position?
      (2) NBA.com and Second Spectrum stats confirm that he plays excellent defense against the opponent’s best player. That’s a useful skill (think Battier and Sefolosha).
      (3) He shot over 40% from 3 in Europe and had a fairly long stretch at the start of last season where he shot over 40%. He was an elite pull up shooter in FIBA competition. His shooting motion is not that of Roberson and doesn’t appear broken. It maaay be that injuries and difficulty adjusting to multiple positions affected his shooting.

      There are two camps here: the first would trade him right now for a 2nd round pick and the second camp wants to give him another (and final) opportunity. I’m in the second camp. The odds are against Frank but not enough to warrant jettisoning him for a 2nd round pick at this stage. He should be healthy and mentally tougher. Frank knows the stakes this season. He was much more aggressive in those 2 or 3 games last season before he re-injured himself. It’s worth it to find out if there’s anything there on offense. FIBA, pre-season games, and actual October games should give the team a better idea. Nate Silver’s model agrees.

    95. Bo Nateman

      Fred Wilpon was a savvy, analytical real estate developer, who ( according to friends who acted as legal counsel to him) was quite conservative when it came to trusting others. Yet, he invested a substantial amount with Bernie Madoff, a man who was an extraordinary bullsh*tter. At least Madoff had the word of mouth credentials of friends of Fred who were similarly duped. It seems that he, or perhaps more likely his son, were similarly duped by BVW. Ruinous trades and a questionable premature contract for DeGrom make it worse to be a Met fan than a Knicks fan.

    96. Farfa

      As a Euro guy, I love Frank’s team-first attitude and proclivity for defense. That said, I think he’s not an NBA player.

    97. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      I understand the “das racist” argument on player skills like memorization, reading coverages, understanding schemes and communication. We see this in the dog whistle with QBs and catchers.

      I have never in my fucking life heard outside shooting as something a black athlete would struggle to improve on the part of his blackness. There’s also a major elemental difference between Mitch, a 7’1” freak of nature who jumps like he’s wearing moon boots, and Marc Gasol and Brook Lopez, two guys pretty far over the hill, who had to develop new shooting skills to remain relevant in an increasingly motion-based and athletic league.

      Mitch could very well become an outside shooter, but why the hell would you want that when he jumps higher than 99% of the league AND he has great spatial awareness (for a foul-prone rookie) AND he’s 20 years old AND he has excellent hand-eye coordination for a man that size?

      I’d give him a green light to shoot anything in Summer League, but dude, there’s no implicit bias at play here. It would be like telling Mookie Betts to practice slap hitting.

    98. Knew Your Nicks

      Big part of my eye test is on the way a player drives in the paint.
      Frank CAN drive and finish or pass pretty effectively.
      Needs to do it more consistently.

    99. Sir Robin

      @70, Confuser. Interesting. Is there any indication of how, why it when he is in a particular mode? Having watched a lot of RJ, do you think he will be a great player?

    100. Knew Your Nicks

      Watching the greek freak doing a coast to coast in his rookie season was all that i needed to see.
      Health and hard work are the other 2 factors for success.

    101. Name is Bron - James Bron

      I have never in my fucking life heard outside shooting as something a black athlete would struggle to improve on the part of his blackness.

      Nor have I. I wrote “athletic black CENTER“. It should have been clear I was talking about rim rockers like Gobert, DAJ and Chandler. It’s plausible even probable that racial stereotyping is occurring.

      There’s also a major elemental difference between Mitch, a 7’1” freak of nature who jumps like he’s wearing moon boots, and Marc Gasol and Brook Lopez, two guys pretty far over the hill, who had to develop new shooting skills to remain relevant in an increasingly motion-based and athletic league.

      Are you saying if they were rookies today, Brook and Marc wouldn’t have developing their 3FG as a priority? The NBA’s changing: Brook, Marc, Joel, Dray are shooting 3’s. Those are centers on 4 of the top 5 teams in the league. The stretch 4 except for a few players like Harrell is now the standard. Poor Vonleh is the latest casualty. The center position is trending in that direction.

      Mitch could very well become an outside shooter, but why the hell would you want that

      I’m not saying that you want him standing at the arc on every play but there are many reasons to have that as an option. The bottom line is improved flexibility and ability to adapt to opponent’s defenses especially in the playoffs. Examples:
      – Enables any 2 other players on the team to execute a PnR or PnPop in space.
      – Opens up cutting lanes and screening opportunities for dunks and layups.
      – Makes it more difficult to defend when center’s able to dive or pop.
      – Gives spacing to ISO players like Randle and Trier
      – Defense must be aware of a trailing center in transition.

      Mitch’s development should include the ability to hit wide open shots from 3-16ft and from the arc and attack closeouts. He doesn’t need to go to Hakeem camp.

    102. danvt

      Not a huge fan of what LAC did. A team like that came at you in waves. Now it’s gonna be a short rotation and lots of the same two guys shooting. I know it’s a star driven league but it’s kind of a snoozer. No more help coming now either. TOR was perfect for Kawhi with Van Vleet, Siakam, etc. Just a good hard working deep core. I think Kawhi played GM and will pay the price.

      The winner in FA was BKLYN. They upgraded at PG and kept their core. KD can actually not be what he was and still contribute in a major way to another jump in quality in a year. Gosh. Bravo. Fuck.

      Yes, no on RW though MIA is going to kick our ass if him and JB team up. It sucks to be us though it has sucked much worse in the past, “so (we) have that going for (us), which is nice…”

    103. thenoblefacehumper

      Maaaaaan if we upped the AAV I bet we could’ve even gotten him to sign up for the 2 + 1 plan. Taj Gibson 4eva

    104. BigBlueAL

      The Clippers lost Gallo and SGA in the trade while they’ve added Kawhi, PG, Harkless and McGruder. They still have Lou Williams, Harrell, Shamet, Zubac and Jerome Robinson. The Clippers depth is fine.

    105. Name is Bron - James Bron

      I don’t think I would have wanted Delon on that deal. He’s a fine player (drafted right after Jerian Grant) but he’s a 3&D 1 guard whose career 3FG% is 33%. He’s not a playmaker which is what this team needs. I’d rather keep the 10m/yr and 2 Charlotte picks and hope Elfrid or DSJ breaks out.

      Delon makes some sense for Mavs since Doncic is the primary ball handler and KP and Luka are the playmakers.

    106. d-mar

      The winner in FA was BKLYN.

      Kawhi + PG13>>>>pain in the ass Kyrie and hobbled Durant. The Clips won free agency, and they’re odds on favorite to win a championship.

    107. Brian Cronin

      two 2nd rd picks for delon wright and 3 yrs 29 million…. smh..

      Boy, they’re really going all in on this team. If this backfires, that could help the Knicks a ton.

      Here’s a fascinating Dallas-related question. Who starts at the third wing for them?

      Wright likely starts with Luka in the backcort. KP and Powell start in the frontcourt. Who’s the third wing, though? Seth Curry or Tim Hardaway Jr?

    108. Brian Cronin

      Not a huge fan of what LAC did. A team like that came at you in waves. Now it’s gonna be a short rotation and lots of the same two guys shooting. I know it’s a star driven league but it’s kind of a snoozer. No more help coming now either. TOR was perfect for Kawhi with Van Vleet, Siakam, etc. Just a good hard working deep core. I think Kawhi played GM and will pay the price.

      They literally took the “team that came at you in waves” and replaced Gallo and SGA with Kawhi Leonard, Paul George and Mo Harkless.

      And you think that’s a step…back?

      Huh?

    109. heavencent35

      Cant we sign and trade our new players for westbrook? Or maybe the thundr wants a salary dump and they can trade westbrook for a salry dump.
      Westbrook in the east will be a beast.

    110. The Infamous Cdiggy

      @110 See the thing is danvt that, as I’m sure you know, rotations shorten up in the playoffs. You need multifaceted players who can score in a variety of ways even when their most favorite moves are taken away by a defense that’s honed in on you for 4 to 7 games.
      With Kawhi and maybe George, it’s a matter of “load management”. With Durant and Irving, it’s at least a year wait on healthy KD while hoping your organizational infrastructure can keep Kyrie fully engaged in the meantime.

      I’d take the Clips chances over BK’s this year.

    111. KnickfaninNJ

      KP and Luka are the playmakers.

      KP is a playmaker? I think you mistyped something.

    112. The Infamous Cdiggy

      Also: shooting #s aside – you have to at least pause and say, “wait, Russell Westbrook is available?” before saying no.

      I believe that, since the Knicks are now in the direction they’re in, isn’t the time for us to make a move for Russ. He’s dynamic, but I believe that team was crafted for him after Durant left – the Knicks don’t have the personnel to do that. And although we’re now in an age where stars recruit stars, would Westbrook be the guy to attract another premium player? Oh, and that contract is a concern.

    113. Name is Bron - James Bron

      KP is a playmaker? I think you mistyped something.

      Indeed should have written shot creators.

    114. Name is Bron - James Bron

      Wright likely starts with Luka in the backcort. KP and Powell start in the frontcourt. Who’s the third wing, though? Seth Curry or Tim Hardaway Jr?

      Westbrook, Delon, Luka, KP, Powell

      Timmy and Courtney match Westbrook. Mavs have any picks left to send?

    115. Brian Cronin

      Raptors signed Rondae Hollis-Jefferson and Stanley Johnson. Both interesting buy-low candidates. Nick Nurse is a heck of a coach, maybe he can do something about their respective awful offensive games.

    116. Hugo Busto

      Not a huge fan of what LAC did.

      @110 danvt

      lolololololololol, come on man seriously?

    117. Bruno Almeida

      KP takes shots, he does not create shots. Being 7’3” and shooting inefficient mid range jumpers over smaller defenders is not a skill.

    118. danvt

      The Clippers lost Gallo and SGA in the trade while they’ve added Kawhi, PG, Harkless and McGruder. They still have Lou Williams, Harrell, Shamet, Zubac and Jerome Robinson. The Clippers depth is fine.

      Ok. Withdrawn. I guess they won’t need the draft picks.

    119. Knew Your Nicks

      LAC saved the NBA competition and gave themselves the best chance to get a chip.
      Gotta love it !

    120. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Indeed should have written shot creators

      Usage soaker is the preferred nomenclature, dude

    121. Name is Bron - James Bron

      Usage soaker is the preferred nomenclature, dude

      KP takes shots, he does not create shots.

      Ouch. Hard to tell who group hates more: Frank or KP. Or maybe just anti-European bias ;)

      Been investigating possible Cuban bomb. So this works in Trade Machine but not sure how Timmy’s trade kicker might affect it):
      Mavs receive Westbrook, Schroeder
      OKC receives THJ, Courtney, 2026 pick, swap rights on bunch of picks, bunch of 2nd round picks

      Possible both teams are improved and OKC saves a ton of luxury tax.
      Mavs Roster:
      1: Westbrook, Schroder
      2: Curry, Wright
      3: Doncic
      4: KP, Kleber
      5: Powell

      OKC Roster:
      1: SGA,
      2: Timmy, Courtney, Diallo
      3: Gallo, Roberson
      4: Grant, Patterson
      5: Adams, Noel

    122. TheConfuser

      @107 — if he is in the zone, he has ice in his veins in critical situations. He grew up around professionals, so I think that helps. I think he’ll be a solid player who will be the difference in a couple of games.

    123. KnickfaninNJ

      I can actually imagine that sort of trade happening, which is not the case for many trades proposed here.

    124. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      KP is a FAR better player than Frank ever will be. The anti-KP argument is all about the people saying it’s a no-brainer to max him. The anti-Frank argument is all about whether he would be a starting PG in the ACC, Pac-12 or SEC, the answer to which is, in truth, a resounding no.

    125. Bruno Almeida

      Yeah, I don’t hate KP, I just don’t think he’s a shot creator. He never creates opportunities for others, and pretty much most of his unassisted shots are post ups where he shoots over a defender or putbacks. I’m not saying he should be one, there’s plenty of great players and even scorers who aren’t shot creators. Doncic is a shot creator, Kobe was one too, as most of his shots were created by movement and footwork and that sort of stuff. You could argue that KP simply uses his height as an inherent advantage, which I agree, but I wouldn’t go as far as calling him a guy who creates shots. It’s mostly a semantics question that’s not very important anyway.

    126. The Infamous Cdiggy

      This article states RW isn’t worth the gamble for the Pistons. I dunno – if you’re a perennial/at best 8th seed with Blake Griffin, Andre Drummond and a bunch of meh guards, wouldn’t Russ be worth the gamble of fighting amongst the likes of, say, the Celts and Pacers for that eastern conference 2nd tier?

    127. JK47

      Westbrook is heading right into the teeth of his decline phase at a time when his contract is ballooning to epic proportions, and he is the prototypical kind of player who relies on athleticism rather than smarts and skill. He is not a good bet to age well at all, and is certainly headed to “worst contracts in the NBA” listicles very soon. If he’s not considered a complete albatross already he will be considered that way very, very soon. Any team taking on that contract is making a massive mistake. It’s almost certain to go badly.

    128. KnickfaninNJ

      Melo was successfully traded by Perry, so I think Presti will find a way to trade Westbrook.

    129. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Knox playing way more in control so far this SL, which is nice to see.

    130. dtrickey

      What is a pass mark for Knox this year? Given he had a pretty terrible rookie season by a lot of metrics, does he still get a tick if he has a Mudiay like season (i.e. improves, but is still pretty awful?).

    131. Frank O.

      Will someone explain to the young fellas that if he’s wearing blue, he’s on your team?
      A turnover results from three Knicks going for the same ball and basically colluding. Then a blown rebound when three Knicks go for the ball s d knock it out of bounds…
      Ugh

    132. djphan

      knox needs to get his 2p fg% above 40%… he also needs to get his rebounding into sf terrritory instead of sg territory…. everything else is basically irrelevant…

    133. Bruno Almeida

      Iggy’s shot looks pretty good, he’s playing very well. RJ seems more in control too, had a nice 3 earlier.

    134. dtrickey

      Iggy looking a lot better today. I like that he can push the ball up the Court as a forward. I still think he will spend a decent chunk of the year with the Westies, but could be a nice piece of the rotation.

    135. The Infamous Cdiggy

      I liked that one move from Knox where he had a defender on him, drove then stopped in the paint to create separation. But then he tossed up that weak floater – he needs to stop n pop the J there.

    136. The Infamous Cdiggy

      @146 also add more spatial awareness on D. Use his length to disrupt passing lanes occasionally and challenge shots when he’s being drove on.

    137. GoNYGoNYGo - Dolan must sell

      I’m focusing on what kind of effort RJ gives on the defensive end. So far, meh. Iggy looks like fun but his handle isn’t great.

    138. Owen

      Someone is going to have to explain Doris Burke to me sometime…

      Get Mitch out of the game. He’s too good for these fools. When he blows out his knee I want us to be 10-24 and playing the Suns.

    139. BigBlueAL

      Knox looks good out there, nice to see he looks more under control and smooth out there.

    140. TheClashFan

      @157
      Speedy has now drawn 2 offensive fouls! And an assist to Mitch!

      Yeah, it was a bad pass, but hey.

    141. GoNYGoNYGo - Dolan must sell

      Knox has to improve from last year. So far, so good. But remember that he dominated summer league last year.

    142. BigBlueAL

      He didn’t really dominate, his shooting percentage was pretty bad still. He looks way better right now than he did last year.

    143. llcoolbp

      Who is this guy and what did he do with Kevin Knox? Shockingly a 19 year old has the ability to improve his game from one year to the next. Is that the eye test I’m using?

    144. djphan

      if you’re consistent from 3… that’s basically steve novak…

      to actually have a career… you need to do multiple things well…. knox is at zero… and a 3p shot gives him 1…. but he still very much needs other things also….

    145. Bruno Almeida

      If Iggy plays as hard on defense as he goes to the rim, he could be a fine player, kinda like a taller, less vertical Pat Connaughton.

    146. The Infamous Cdiggy

      @162 true, but now we have a whole rookie season to compare him to. He does look better driving the paint. And he had a decent contest on a 3pt shot.

      I don’t know if he’ll be “good” this year. Probably not, but that doesn’t mean he’ll be bad. My bar for Knox II this upcoming season is for him to show more evidence of the beginnings of a foundationally solid NBA player who gains a clue how to leverage his lankyness on both sides of the ball.

    147. marechal

      The worry about seeing Mitch play so much in summer league is that it may indicate that the front office does not fully understand how good he is. Maybe he’s working on something specific but it doesn’t look that way to me.

    148. The Infamous Cdiggy

      @179 I think he should look more to pass in this 2nd half. You got two guys in Iggy and Knox that’s shooting well – I’d like to see him try to facilitate some and get them the ball. And maybe find Mitch some lobs?

    149. GoNYGoNYGo - Dolan must sell

      @179 – He’s not looking good but he’s not looking bad. Just blah.
      Iggy on the other hand…

    150. geo

      Someone is going to have to explain Doris Burke to me sometime…

      what’s wrong with doris owen?

      her and mark jones are one of my favorite sports announcing crews…

      love it when she wears the bright red lipstick…definitely a sexy older lady…

      seems pretty sensible in her b-ball comments…

    151. Owen

      I just find Doris a little try hard. And she often seems to trot out a bunch of bits about players that seem like they were crafted by management. I don’t know, I know she’s a pioneer and well loved but just not my jam I guess….

    152. d-mar

      Guys it’s summer league. Wait till RJ goes up against better competition….oh, wait, never mind

    153. DRed

      Wooten is another off the assembly line of slightly undersized great shot blocking Oregon forwards. If he can ever develop any sort of offense he’ll be an NBA player.

    154. GoNYGoNYGo - Dolan must sell

      @192 – I’m ok with Doris.

      The DSJ vs EP competition is good. I see it as a battle between two legit NBA starters.

      That open roster spot might have Wooten’s name penciled in

    155. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Just trying to keep in mind that Trae had an historically awful SL and turned it around by the second half of the season. Hoping the same for RJ.

      Wooten deserves a camp invite at minimum.

    156. TheClashFan

      Might this be the second year and a row that the 2nd round pick is better than the first rounder?

    157. Name is Bron - James Bron

      Brazzmatazz – I hate it. Gonna have to endure Z-man’s Baker-like posts about how Braz could be an important part of our future.

    158. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      bUt wHy wOuLd wE tRaDe tHe #3 fOr a wHoLe BuNcH oF LaTe RoUnD pIcKs wHeN tHeRe’S a sUpeRStAr rIgHt tHeRe

    159. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      What’s RJ now, like 6/30 over two games?

      scoring efficiency is a terrible way to evaluate a young player

      does he:

      take a lot of shots? superstar
      have elite length and an NBA READY BODY? superstar
      have an MVP godfather? superstar

      I am so sick of being right

    160. Name is Bron - James Bron

      Well I don’t think Jud will be coaching the big team anytime soon…

      Beuchler’s Day Off

    161. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      We’re definitely gonna be a bottom three team in the regular season huh

    162. BigBlueAL

      Knicks talked a big game going into free agency and did horrible, they talk a big game about wanting to win Summer League and they’re about to go 0-2 with RJ looking awful.

      Not a summer to remember for the Knicks front office lol.

    163. Grocer

      Look on the bright side of RJ: Iggy can pass a little bit.

      Third pick in a two person draft.

    164. TheClashFan

      Maybe the Knicks should trade all their future 1st round picks for as many 2nd rounders as possible.

      I keed…I keed…maybe.

    165. Bruno Almeida

      Well, at least we’re already used to the feeling of giving up on the first rounder and getting excited about the second rounder…

    166. bobneptune

      Clearly Iggy knows how to play basketball… I wonder what his background basketball-wise is…..

    167. bobneptune

      His dad is a MMA guy

      I got that but he sees the angles so well…. he plays with “feel” for a 19 yr old

    168. JK47

      I know it’s summer league. I know Trae Young was bad in summer league. But holy fuck does RJ Barrett look terrible. He looks like the poor man’s Andrew Wiggins.

    169. Bruno Almeida

      It’s hard to play worse than Barrett did in those two games, so I guess we can be happy with the certainty that things can only get better!

    170. Early Bird

      If I said it once, I’ve said it a million times. Even in his highlights RJ looks slow. Once he can’t overpower players at the rim, then he won’t score. And that’s before we even get to the numbers. He’s an undersized 3 who can’t keep up with twos. Drafting 3rd was my worst case scenario because of RJ.

    171. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Rj has like zero lift and no touch at the rim Jesus christ. Iggy on the hand…

    172. JK47

      The plan for RJ Barrett:
      1. Give him the ball and tell him to shoot a lot
      2. Let him get some pointzz in there with the 66% of misses
      3. Trade to somebody even dumber than us

    173. Name is Bron - James Bron

      There’s no way Jarrett Culver is this bad.

      Jarrett > Garrett > Barrett

    174. geo

      (These cats are actually 3/5 of our starting lineup on the main team)

      sometime in the first half that same thought went through my mind…

      yeah, about that 30 win prediction…

    175. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Time to watch Brandon Clarke and the Griz and dream of what could have been

    176. djphan

      i wouldn’t get too caught up in the shooting or TO numbers for rj… he’s looked bad but there have been plenty of top prospects who have looked worse as he has and plenty of guys who looked like all stars who couldn’t stick it in the league… so i would be careful drawing too many conclusions like it’s a regular nba game… summer league is def not that…

      the important thing to look at are the secondary numbers… the rebounds.. stls and blks were there this game… which is the lone bright spot…. the shooting and ball handling have been atrocious but those can come with time….

    177. Stratomatic: Management consists of talent evaluation, fitting pieces together coherently, & contract/valuation level decisions. The Knicks are bad at all three.

      If you gave me a choice between Frank and Barrett, I’d have to take Frank. At least Frank plays defense and knows to “not” shoot. I’m still searching for anything Barrett does well.

      Iggy on the other hand has some skills on offense. So if can play some defense (I doubt it or we probably wouldn’t have drafted him), we may have a decent player. The Knicks may have done it again. Their 2nd round pick may be better than their 1st round pick, at least at this early stage.

      I saw Frank standing next to Dotson. I’m not sure what that kid is eating, but he did look bigger and stronger. At this rate he may be able to switch onto Embiid by next year. lol

    178. JK47

      RJ is going to play 2000 very bad minutes for the Knicks this year. I’m not gonna say he’s hopeless because sometimes wings take a little time to develop but he is going to play like 2000 minutes and will not get above like .020 WS48. He is a professional shot misser.

      Kevin Knox is also probably going to play a couple thousand horrible minutes too. He looks a little better in summer league but he’s still bad.

      This team is not gonna win more than 25 games. We’re going to be spending this year debating the merits of Anthony Edwards versus Cole Anthony versus RJ Hampton, and we’re all about to get real familiar with Theo Maledon and Deni Avdija and James Wiseman.

    179. Stratomatic: Management consists of talent evaluation, fitting pieces together coherently, & contract/valuation level decisions. The Knicks are bad at all three.

      We should have drafted Reddish…

      All time classic! lmao

    180. Stratomatic: Management consists of talent evaluation, fitting pieces together coherently, & contract/valuation level decisions. The Knicks are bad at all three.

      The lowly Suns summer league team 105. The Knicks starters 100. My head is going to explode. They should just cancel the season and give the Knicks the rest of the year to scout potential top 5 picks that can’t play on either side of the ball.

    181. d-mar

      I need to go back and re-read my guide to the National Basketball Association. I’m pretty sure it said somewhere that the 3rd pick in the draft should look like he belongs in the NBA and the 47th pick should not.

    182. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @248

      Ok this is a ridiculous take. RJ would literally be the biggest bust of all time if he put up Frank’s numbers. Frank put up worse numbers than pretty much everyone besides Darko. The odds of RJ being the biggest bust of all time after two summer league games are almost nil. This Frank homerism is getting absurd

      I don’t even like RJ, but yeesh.

    183. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Who’s #18 on the Grizz? Dude was wide open from 3 feet out, hesitated until a defender got to him, then got blocked on a weak-ass floater attempt. That was an especially terrible basketball play.

    184. Stratomatic: Management consists of talent evaluation, fitting pieces together coherently, & contract/valuation level decisions. The Knicks are bad at all three.

      @254

      I was going for the laugh, but seriously, so far Barrett looks bad in every facet of the game including shot selection. So I’d rather have Frank defend and know to not shoot the ball than Barrett think he should shoot it. We’ll see what happens going forward. He can’t be this bad…can he?

    185. Stratomatic: Management consists of talent evaluation, fitting pieces together coherently, & contract/valuation level decisions. The Knicks are bad at all three.

      Who’s #18 on the Grizz? Dude was wide open from 3 feet out, hesitated until a defender got to him, then got blocked on a weak-ass floater attempt. That was an especially terrible basketball play.

      I’m not sure, but Mills got on the phone right after that play and it scared the crap out of me because I’m sure he wasn’t interested in the defender.

    186. Stratomatic: Management consists of talent evaluation, fitting pieces together coherently, & contract/valuation level decisions. The Knicks are bad at all three.

      Look on the bright side. At least the Knicks overpaid a few veterans to be on the team for a year. We can always overpay them again to stay with that team option. So we do have a few real NBA players.

    187. dtrickey

      I think if you took Knox’s SL play with a grain of salt, then I think it’s only fair RJ gets the same treatment. No doubt a bit of work to do. He just seems really tense at the moment. Would be great to see him come out the next game and get on the drive and look to facilitate a bit more. Blocks, steals and board numbers have been good, but his footwork needs some work because he is dying on some of those screens.

    188. Early Bird

      Only person starting from SL is Mitch. Lineup will be:

      Payton
      Ellington
      Bullock
      Randle
      Mitch

    189. geo

      anyone ever hangout in the gaslamp much…one of my favorite spots to visit…they recently closed up my very favorite spots in the world to eat: greek island cafe in seaport village (location, location, location)…who doesn’t love salty meat from a stick…discovered them in germany years ago, and fell in love with gyros (strong pass on blood sausage though)…

      so, “forced” back in to the gaslamp for sustenance…

      one of my favorite things about the area – the relative lack of american accents :)

      oh yeah, jesus, some of you all are a pharmacist’s wet dream with your high-anxiety…

      hahahahahahahahahahahaha…but, RJ ain’t really looked so good yet…

      we got a bunch of young guys on the roster (lotto tickets), some will hit, some will miss…

      speaking of which, didn’t really notice trier out there tonight…

      so owen, sir – name me a better nba color analyst (I think that’s what they call the ex-athlete/coach) than doris…

      also mark jones is one of the better play by play (?) commentors out there…

      both seem to have fairly enjoyable personalitiy traits outside of their jobs…who knows though…

      I imagine it would be challenging to have to be openly critical of others performance without sounding like a dick all the time…but, it’s part of your job to critque…

    190. JK47

      anyone ever hangout in the gaslamp much…one of my favorite spots to visit…

      Every time I go down to San Diego I think “this will probably be fun” and then it’s never fun.

    191. dtrickey

      speaking of which, didn’t really notice trier out there tonight…

      Was out with illness. Although being a young guy in Vegas, I have no doubt he was probably in fine form the night before ha ha

    192. geo

      I don’t make it much to the water, of which I think: ocean :)

      only 60 some miles away, but – there’s literally 15 million fucking people in my way…I try not to think of it too often…

      the area around the san diego convention center is both bomb and beautiful…both family friendly and total debauchery if that’s your desire…

      debauchery seems to generally travel well…

    193. bobneptune

      Why did the Warrior’s renounce D’AR???

      Pro tip:

      Don’t write much at 3 AM…. it said announce…. not renounce :-)

    194. Farfa

      RJ watch:

      – Terribile body language. It doesn’t look like he’s not motivated, though. It seems like he has feel for the game but doesn’t (yet, hopefully) understand what he needs to adjust to play with grown men.
      – Has no speed whatsoever. This is by far the most alarming aspect of his game. The touch around the rim might come, quickness and end-to-end speed rarely do.
      – Due to his lack of speed, he can’t dribble past anyone. Maybe his handle will become better (it’s not bad right now; it’s the stance that needs work) but at the moment he won’t be able to drive into the teeth of the defense and kick the ball outside.
      – He also can’t overpower anyone (at least at the moment)! And can’t shoot! Definitely too early to call him a bust but red flags keep poppin’ around.
      – On defense looks again very slow and doesn’t have any basic idea about “team defense”.
      – On the other side, rebounding numbers are good and it’s obvious that the kid has a lot of talent. Our only hope it that he can learn to harness it. Right now he’d be the second-worst player on the regular season roster by a long mile.

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