[Sports Illustrated] Report: Kevin Durant to Have Discussions With Warriors, Knicks, Clippers and Nets (Friday, June 28, 2019 9:53:25 PM)
Durant’s decision-making process could extend into late next week.
(Friday, June 28, 2019 6:19:41 PM)
New York City appears to have a 50 percent chance of landing Kevin Durant. The prized free agent has narrowed his list of summer suitors down to four and the Knicks and Nets are two of them, according to ESPN. The two New York clubs, along with the Warriors and Clippers, are the teams Durant…
(Friday, June 28, 2019 10:52:35 AM)
The Knicks may have to fly to Kawhi Leonard’s hometown for their meeting with the Raptors superstar. While things are still fluid, a source confirmed a tweet from confidant Cris Carter that Leonard will hold all his free agent meetings in Los Angeles. Leonard will get a late start as free agency begins Sunday night,…
(Friday, June 28, 2019 8:48:26 AM)
If he becomes an unrestricted free agent, Knicks’ point guard target Terry Rozier is open to taking a short-term one or two-year deal, according to NBA sources. The Knicks’ interest level in Rozier, 25, has elevated since reports have the Celtics as favorites to land Charlotte’s Kemba Walker. That would mean the Celtics likely have…
(Friday, June 28, 2019 9:41:34 PM)
Kevin Durant will reportedly have conversations with four teams when free agency officially begins on Sunday, and both the Knicks and Nets are on his list.
(Friday, June 28, 2019 8:09:07 PM)
Both the Knicks and Terry Rozier reportedly have interest in a short-term deal.
(Friday, June 28, 2019 12:15:14 PM)
The Knicks will have plenty of choices to make once free agency officially begins this Sunday. Beyond the obvious superstar targets, the Knicks will also look into cheaper, cost-effective options. DeAndre Jordan, while not exactly cheap, could be one of them.
(Friday, June 28, 2019 8:44:43 AM)
There have been some strong suggestions on television and radio recently that the Brooklyn Nets are the front runners for Kevin Durant.
(Friday, June 28, 2019 12:02:45 PM)
The Knicks declined another team option as they seek to maximize cap space for free agency.
(Friday, June 28, 2019 9:30:31 AM)
Celtics star Kyrie Irving is one of the prizes of free agency, and the idea that he could team up with fellow free agent Kevin Durant on the Knicks this summer has picked up steam since the Kristaps Porzingis trade cleared two max slots for New York. Here are the latest rumors…
(Friday, June 28, 2019 9:30:00 PM)
Kevin Durant plans to engage in discussions with the Nets, Clippers, Knicks and Warriors once free agency begins on Sunday, league sources told ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski.
144 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2019.06.29)”
I’m cross posting this as I thought some might fine the actual stats interesting:
@152 – Basketball is all about athleticism. Amare was a good, and smart player that’s why he continued to be valuable after his issues. If Durant is 80% of his former self physically, he won’t be top-50. It’s really simple.
I poked around PUBMED for studies on this stuff and while I could only find studies NFL, NBA and NHL players combined. While many didn’t return (biased for age correlation to injury?) the conclusion bodes well for Durant’s out years:
CONCLUSION : An Achilles tendon rupture is a devastating injury that prevents RTP for 30.6% of professional players. Athletes who do return play in fewer games, have less play time, and perform at a lower level than their preinjury status. However, these functional deficits are seen only at 1 year after surgery compared with matched controls, such that players who return to play can expect to perform at a level commensurate with uninjured controls 2 years postoperatively.
In English…. The Knicks if they sign him for 4 or 5 years should get 2.5-3.5 years of the pre-injury Durant we would expect to get without the injury. (his statistical decline phase).
Those are the best stats available.
Quite frankly , if this guy decides he wants to come here, it won’t be an A’mare deal where he did it for the money, it will be because he wants to give himself a challenge to show he is among the GOATs.
I can see Durant aging like a Reggie Miller on steroids.
Rudy Gay really looks like what you’re hoping for. He isn’t good, but he’s basically the same Rudy Gay that he was before the injury.
I’m really hoping that Butler to HOU gets done. Obviously you have to tip your cap to his success as a GM in putting a contending team on the floor year after year, but I’ve never been a fan of Morey’s cold, calculating approach to team-building. Seems like he’s sell his own mother if he got fair return on the deal. My guess is that Butler will blow that team and it’s next 5 years to smithereens and both Morey and D’Antoni and their gimmicky ways will be dispatched.
Bobneptune, thanks for the informative post. Your stats suggest that DeMarcus Cousins could be a good deal. I know that a lot of people don’t want him because of his reputation, but that could mean we can get him at a relatively low price. To me, his reputation is based on behavior from a long time ago. I suspects events and time have mellowed him a bit. He’s likely to be a much better deal than Randle.
Not on a one-year deal. A one-year deal would be pointless.
Thanks bob, for actually doing some research. I found the same study which appears to be “the” study on the subject.
More details: the sample contains 17 NBA players; the sample of study contained all players undergoing surgery for ruptured Achilles between 1989 and 2013 seasons that played at least one game in the two seasons prior to surgery; 8 forwards, 4 guards, 5 centers.
“When the 3 leagues were analyzed separately, only NBA players played in significantly fewer games at 1 and 2 years postoperatively, 67.5% and 68.5% respectively (P < .001)"
A one year would only roll over cap space. I can see signing Boogie for longer if it’s a good deal, but I know I’m in the minority on this. But let’s say you can sign Randle for four year at 80 or 90 million versus Boogie for three years at, say, 36 million. What would you do?
i think i’m mainly hoping that jordan panics at the last second and supermaxes kemba, and then repanics and dumps his surfeit of contract detritus to us for all the picks. otherwise here are some guys that might be worth taking lowballish shots at for value:
tyus jones
delon wright (i think memphis prob matches any attractive offer)
rondae hollis-jefferson
thomas bryant
satoransky
jordan bell
pat connaughton
jake layman (maybe not?)
teodisic
noel
I’m worried more about how much KD actually plays. B/R had an article suggesting that players prone to soft tissue injuries (which apparently KD is) will have a harder time staying on the court post-achilles surgery. His shooting will always be lethal, but if he keeps getting reinjured just running up and down the court who cares how good he is.
In this market you are only likely to get good deals for players who already have baggage or who haven’t proven themselves yet.
Other takeaways from the ruptured achilles study:
Percentage of playing time post-op compared to most recent pre-op season after returning for NBA players (the worst among leagues): first year, 52.8%; second year, 53.6% (p < 0.001)
Performance for NBA players as measured by PER post-op compared to most recent pre-op season: first year, 77.0%; second year, 79.4% (p < 0.001)
So those speculating we might see KD at around 80% seem to be pretty damn close to this empirical study at least.
@1 – Maybe. But if we sign Durant we sign for 4 years max. Next year is 100% out. Diminished play is in year 2. Then, if all went well, we get Durant, age 33. Is he 100% of what he was today? Not a chance. Expect an age decline of 10-20% on that alone. Add on the diminished PT and you have to ask, are those last 2 years worth it? No. No. No. Signing him is sheer lunacy.
As someone who has looked at literally thousands of scientific studies retrospective studies are full of biases. For example in the NFL of the players that returned virtually all of them played in a similar number of games post op while basketball players did not.
The simplest reason for that is NFL players do not have guaranteed contracts and hoops players do so they are more likely to be on imposed minute restriction. Etc, Etc….
For example Kawhi Leonard played 14 less games this year and at a significantly lower WS/48 and BPM than 2 years ago pre significant injury that kept him out of 72 games last year….. would you be happy with his performance this year and going forward if you had him under contract????????
I would 🙂
Knicks are supposedly targeting Robin Lopez to be the backup C for Robinson.
The problem (s) with Cousins is the Eye Test treats him better than the stats. He is highly skilled yet acts strategically like a boob on the court. With all the flash to his game his ws/48 = .117 over 18,000 minutes. As Bill Parcelles says, “You are what your record says you are!”
Cousins for all the flash is a moderately above average NBA player who cannot defend an ounce in space in today’s NBA and should be paid accordingly by someone else.
It would prevent the Knicks from doing something even dumber with the money.
I would be psyched with max Durant and Boogie for 4×12=48. Take in some bad 1 or 2 year contracts for a few picks and maintain a max slot in 1 or two years. I think Boogie would be a good asset on that contract.
I’m meh on signing Durant, sort of taking a fatalistic approach..i.e que sera sera. Obviously it’s pretty far removed from the original fantasy of a healthy KD and the possibile pairing with one of the other special K’s or a big 3 with AD. But it’s at least some solace to know that if the Nets land KD, they’ll be in the same quandary and if he stays out west, who cares? And if we get him, at least we can say that he didn’t spurn us, but it’s an enormous gamble on his recovery, especially if we tie up more cap in a second guy who might pollute our draft pursuit for this year. Honestly, I just want it to be over without any head-scratchers derailing the rebuild.
On a positive note, KNICKS BASKETBALL IS A WEEK AWAY!!!
At cheap money that is perfectly fine…. He is a fundamentally solid pro who is good in the locker room with zero baggage. Perfect for that particular job.
I have to admit, I’m kind of surprised by the consensus opinion here that signing Durant should still be an option (I know there are some exceptions). I tend to be one of the people most willing to accelerate a rebuild, but at 31 coming off an Achilles rupture I’m one of the most skeptical people here about this idea.
With 70 million of cap space, we are clearly going to add some players that make the team better even if we take on a few bad contracts as part of it (as we probably should). But I’d generally rather stay the course of looking to selectively add players in their mid 20s or younger that can be part of the long term future or at least be productive to the end of their contract and potentially be used as an asset in a trade later.
I disagree on the eye-test treating him better than the stats thing. If you throw out Boogie’s 20-21-22 yo seasons, he has been a very good but not great player statistically. He may not be a winner, but you really can’t build a statistical case against a pre-injury Cousins. He’s basically a better rebounding, more turnover prone, better defensively Melo. If you believe that he will recover to the pre-injury but older Cousins, he’s a bargain at a 1/2-max deal, just as Melo would have been.
The “not a winner” thing is real, though, and it’s the eye-test that seems to confirm that, like in crunch time in the finals. Just as it was for JR Smith when he was at his statistical peak with Denver. Just like it is for LaMarcus Aldridge. He’s a high-talent/low-IQ player. That’s reason enough not to sign him. But statistically, it’s a no-brainer.
For the record my number one choice would be to eschew the risk and just buy as many picks with the 72 M unless a real bargain for a young player (like Pau Gasol) became available.
I am actually fine with Durant with or without a second star. It increases the volatility but still ensures a tank season and gives another year to see what develops and I would expect a very good player with Durant going forward.
Even something stupid like Kyrie and Tobias Harris would at least make for a playoff team with 6 first round picks in the next 4 years…. a road to being at least good to very good.
The only permutation I loathe is signing Cousins /Randle and that ilk. I’m not that desperate for 29 wins……
I don’t trust WS when it comes to players on lousy teams because team performance can drag down the stat. Cousins played most of his career on the Kings and his WS was probably affected by that. On the Warriors, definitely not a lousy team, his WS/48 was about 0.15, which is about 75th percentile, and he was coming off a severe injury. If you pay an average starting center’s salary or less for him, you getting a good deal even by WS
why would Boogie do 3 for $36M or 4 for $48M? I think he’s going to get $15M for 1 year right now. why wouldn’t he take then, with the hopes to then get 3 for $70M after he shows he’s healthy?
I’m hearing rumblings that the reason the Knicks are interested in Rozier is that they are not sold on DSJr being the PG of the future and still prefer Frank playing off the ball.
By the way, I also read a report that suggested Frank has bulked up a little more and is now 6′ 7″. If true, that should give him more minutes at SF (which I think is ideal given our glut at SG and lack of SFs). I saw some very recent pictures of him. It would not shock me if he actually did grow some more.
I don’t see Cousins as a fit in any capacity even if I was more enthusiastic about him as a player. He’s a strong and hard a “no” as I can offer.
Why am I getting a strong deja vu thing going on in my head right now?
Seriously, if Frank grew an inch and put on weight every time someone here speculated about it, he’d be displacing Rudy Gobert as the starting C on the French National team.
If you just take his NO years in his prime playing along side a friend and best player in the league his WS/48 move all the way up to a frothy .131!!!
He is mostly flash with great “talent”. I’m guessing he won’t have an epiphany at 29.
Besides that… what is the purpose of signing him short term? winning 28 games rather than 20? Pushing our only potential star off his natural position? Allowing MR to” learn the ropes” and smirk like Cousins? I don’t get it???
Dude…..those rumblings were from us!
Cousins has been closer to .145 if you ignore the first years in the league. He’s played consistently around that level. He’s improved as he’s entered his prime and is likely closer to that skill level than .117.
lol
Well, I think he did bulk up and grow a little going into last year, but I assumed the growing part was done at his age. Maybe not. Maybe he reached puberty a little late and has another inch left. I’m hoping so for his sake. He’ll get more playing time at SF on this team than he will at SG.
Before the injury, though, I was thinking we’d likely get 2 years of peak Durant, possibly a 3rd, and maybe you have to eat the 4th year.
Now the two best years we could have expected are off the table and we’re only getting the back end. And there’s talk of a 5th year now.
He’s very unlikely to earn that contract. I’d still offer it to him, though, at the four year level. And that’s bc 1) I don’t think we’re likely to spend the money better, and 2) he can attract more good players. I don’t like that 5th year, even if it comes with a golden State pick.
I can’t imagine Boogie wants a one year contract. Of course he would take it if longer contracts are not available, but given his injury history, he probably wants some security. And he would only take those relatively low salaries if nothing else were available. But I think his rep is hurting his market, which, along with playing a position that isn’t as valuable in today’s NBA as it used to be, is why I suggested a salary like that.
Part of me wants to sign Draymond Green next year to pair with Mitch. Dray is over the hill, but would have been really fun 3 years ago.
I think flipping Cousins is possible. Teams finally have a window to win as GS falls off. Look at the moves Philly made.
I think KD, Mitch and Boogie could work.
I don’t love the move, but signing Boogie isn’t bad.
Playing on a 48 win NO team last year before injury WITH AD his ws/48 = .130 playing with one of the best teams ever who play magnificent team defense he moved all the way to .151.
Did you look at his playoff numbers this season??? In the only game pre-leg injury vs the Paper clips he was a crisp -17 in 22 minutes as a starter in a game GS won by 17. Overall he was statistically horrible AND played vacuously dumb AND was constantly exploited defensively.
Might he help a team like Portland…. maybe, but I don’t see any argument for him being here.
Yeah… and if you cherry picked my 1973 MCAT scores and ignored my GPA my first two years in college while I led the league in Nepalese Temple Ball Hash smoking, I’d be a brain surgeon today, but medical school admission boards don’t work that way….
if boogie is going to go somewhere for a year, why not the lakers? he seemed to fit OK w/ brow last year.
I lived in Lexington when he and Wall were there…. his reputation was well earned …..
Boogie looked bad to me too in the playoffs, but I am trusting your medical research that he will be better next year because it’s two years from his Achilles injury and also because he was just coming back from another injury when he was in the playoffs last season. And anyway, his 0.130 WS/48 you cite is better than three quarters of the league. As for cherry picking, I’m just using the stat you picked. If you look at PER, he is consistently around 20. PER seems to correlate well with market value and that is a good number.
You could say you don’t want Cousins because he isn’t the sort of player you want to spend money on, for example you might prefer paying a guard or a defense first center like Noel. Instead you cited statistics that don’t support your case.
If only there were some well accepted idea of players improving and entering their prime at around the time Boogie did and then playing fairly consistently at that level. I’m not cherry picking, I’m choosing a more relevant sample.
If Cousins shows up to game 1 and miraculously turns back into a 22 year old, then yes those years are relevant.
Hey everyone good news! Global warming is a hoax since the scientists are just cherry picking the most recent years as being hotter. If we include every year, the average temperature isn’t that high!!
If the Knicks sign Robin Lopez (btw, I’m fine with that if he’s cheap and for 1-2 years), then my conspiracy theory of Phil Jackson as Henry Blake inches one step closer to critical mass. Still a ways to go, but let’s see if Mills exposes himself further.
🙂
Please FO. See the light. Trust the Process. Rent the space.
The trend is your friend and how is the trend goink for Cousins? He is what he is…. a vastly overrated player who has no fit on this team where the only “sure thing” plays his position. I don’t see what he brings to the table on a team that has Robinson.
I am square on the rent the space squat if true max players aren’t available but we need a back up for Mitch at center and Lopez fills that bill perfectly at a reasonable price. He’s actually perfect for that job.
@43
Yeah, as I said in my post, I’m fine with Lopez for 1-2 cheap years. He seems like a good guy, as opposed to the horrible spectre of Boogie Cousins, who surely will command at least mid-levelish $.
The FO is gonna sign some guys, since they need to fill out a full roster. Maybe Rozier for 1-2 years will be okay, too (that’s the current report, anyways).
I just hope they retain at least 1/3 of the current cap space for rental. 1/2 would be nice. At least get an additional first rounder for 2020. Even they do sign Durant, maintain most of the rest of the space for deals now or near the trade deadline.
I might be okay with a short two year deal at less than 20 milllion for Cousins if we didn’t have Robinson but we do. Since we have Robinson I don’t want Cousins on a vet minimum contract. I don’t want anyone that will push Robinson to the bench.
There is no upside. With Cousins Robinson plays less and most likely we’re not even better since Robinson will probably be better than Cousins next year. As for playing together this isn’t 1995 two center lineups do not work in today’s NBA.
We need centers that will slot in behind Mitch not in front of him. Lopez would be okay but I’d much rather chase some upside like Noel or Bell, two better players that will cost a similar amount.
I don’t know what the argument is here…. Every player has “value” at some price point. Define the salary and length of contract and I’ll be happy to engage.
But more globally speaking Cousins is a bad “fit” here.
We shouldn’t even be discussing Demarcus Cousins. He has always been an overrated player who looks good on paper because he racks up lots of counting stats, but when you dig down deeper you see he misses lots of shots and turns the ball over a lot, negating a lot of that value. He’s the classic “star” that ends up on the Knicks:
1. Famous
2. Inefficient
3. Past his prime
4. Doesn’t defend well
5. Shoots incessantly
Surely there is a better way than this to use all the cap space. Boogie would just be an exercise in “how Knicksy can this get?”
He’d also probably score 22 PPG and then get a max extension.
ummmmm…..
Seriously though, another plausible scenario for this KD/Kawhi team-up is Kawhi 1+1 with Toronto, KD comes to NY this summer, then Kawhi opts out and joins KD in NYC…
Argh why do I even do this to myself
No one ever talks about this much, but Mills was the GM under Phil who was the president. Some of the mistakes made in that period were GM level mistakes. Phil took all the heat. Mills got a promotion and when he immediately blundered on Hardaway and Baker, it was all excused because he didn’t have a GM like Perry. rotflmao endlessly.
The (few) good things that happened under Phil = Phil did it
The (many) bad things that happened under Phil = Mills did it
i assume i’m not alone that if we can somehow land kawhi and kd, then bring on those broken aging max bodies, lfg. probably have to try to move rj in that scenario.
horford to the pelicans is weird but interesting. could be a pretty good team next year if zion comes out hot.
If signing KD brings Kawhi, then and only then am I for it.
Here’s Zach Lowe’s general take on the Knicks from last night:
Dolan’s Razor, forever hanging over our head like the sword of Damocles
For whatever statistical arguments you want to make about Boogie, it’s worth considering that he’s just an annoying player to watch. Rooting for him as Knicks fans is going to be a frustrating experience. Considering he won’t add meaningful wins even if he plays well, I’d just as soon pass.
Not to mention the awful fit with Mitch, who should be playing >27 mpg next year.
Sacramento tried the “let’s make Cousins our best player on a team full of crap players” for 6 years and you’ve all seen how it went, but now let’s try the same strategy when Cousins is 29 and recovering from a crippling injury! Now that sounds like a plan.
I won’t even read the Kawhi + Durant rumors because I really don’t want to get hopeful. But yeah, if Kawhi is coming and asks for Durant, you do it.
Steve Mills hopefully soon, “It was always the plan to get Kevin Durant and Kawhi Leonard to sign here.”
We’ll all be wearing red MKGA hats soon……
Definitely. Love the argument from aesthetics. He is another Melo in every way, down to how much I dislike his style of play independent of results.
Inject Kawhi & even a hobbled Durant directly into my veins!
To be clear, the study bob posted concluded commensurate play across matched samples the second year after returning from surgery across major sports. The only league where commensurate play did not occur in the second year after returning was the NBA. So we’re now talking about likely diminished minutes (~50% on average) and performance (~80% on average) until the end of any contract we sign with KD at which point he will be declining more rapidly anyway.
As bob points out though, it is a retrospective study, so though it is the best we have, the validity might be suspect when trying to assess KD’s situation in 2019.
Robin Lopez at anything other than the minimum doesn’t make good sense. We need to be keeping all of our space open to accept salary dumps from other teams. It’s not worth blowing it on RoLo, who does nothing for us. There are soooo many backup centers out there. In fact, we would probably get a center as one of the salary dumps (Biyombo, Mahinmi, Leuer, Ilyasova, etc).
If only Robin Lopez was better at passing out of the pinch post we wouldn’t have had the problem with NYC being too lit for Joakim
Mills has long record of gross incompetence and horrendous management decisions spanning multiple jobs, working for multiple people, and continuing to the present.
Phil is an all time great coach that is very good at talent evaluation and team construction, but he’s also stubborn arrogant thickheaded individual that doesn’t relate to the young players and has zero GM and media skills.
There’s still a role in basketball for guys like Phil and Gaines when it comes to the draft and team construction.
There’s also probably a role for Mills, but it should have nothing to do with talent evaluation, team construction, salary size, or salary length. Maybe media liaison would be appropriate because he was good enough at it (or the media is dumb enough) to get his promotion.
I read the Lowe article chrisconley referred to. Lowe also says the last time the league had this kind of money available for free agents the league “sort of went nutso” and almost every four year deal for a role player proved a disaster. His recommendations: “short and big is better than long and slightly less big.”
I can’t imagine Khawi at the peak of his powers, coming off a championship, with opportunities to compete for a championship in Toronto or elsewhere, deciding to give up a minimum of a year of his prime to play with the Knicks and Durant and hope to compete for a championship in a few years.
That would be so dumb, it would make me suspect he’s done so much partying since the championship he’s damaged more than few brain cells and may need brain load management.
Denver bringing Millsap back.
Oh yeah! He’s fucking TREMENDOUS at team construction.
Joakim Noah, 4/72! Derrick Rose! Trade away a 2RP so you can sign the Wear Bear while saving James Dolan a few bucks!
He’s a fucking team construction GENIUS. The outstanding results speak for themselves. Oh wait, all of those things were no doubt Steve Mills’ fault.
Mills: Hey Phil, should we sign Joakim Noah to a 4/72 contract?
Phil: Don’t bother me, I’m licking toads
Mills: Well, should I do it or not, I mean I know you want guys who can pass out of the pinch post
Phil: (scribbles a bunch of triangles)
Mills: Phil? What do you think about Noah?
Phil: Listen, you know I’m doing stuff that’s way too important, I can’t be bothered with trivial decisions like these
Mills: Well, what about trading for Derrick Rose
Phil: Isn’t this a SICK version of “Dark Star?”
Some have speculated after the Woj report that Kawhi might do a 1+1 with Toronto to take a crack at repeating while Durant heals. Then he leaves the Raptors and joins the Knicks or Clippers.
@68
LOL
I’m not going to debate this again, but the role of the president is generally to create a direction for the team and run all aspects of the organization over and above and including players.
Scouts like Gaines are supposed to help evaluate talent and fit and pass that information up.
The GM is generally supposed to execute the plan related to player’s salaries, contract lengths and details, cap space, and the rules that govern such things to maximize the long term plan.
Phil admittedly had little to no GM skills. Neither does Mills.
Either you give them more time, you change their responsibilities to fit their talents, or they both get the boot. One of them got a promotion and immediately screwed the team up in multiple ways without any media blame and the other (including Gaines) is out of basketball. If you can’t see the problem there, there’s another problem here.
Quite frankly, Phil has forgotten more about talent evaluation and team construction than you and I will ever know.
That doesn’t mean he knows how to be a GM.
The media is really twisting the knife right now. Can you imagine this discussion taking place somewhere?
“Hey, how can we generate a million hits on our website in short order?”
“I got an idea…float a rumor about KD and Kawhi teaming up on the Knicks.” ”
Nah, no one is dumb enough to believe that.”
“True. Wait, I got it…throw in the Clips to make it sound legit.”
I don’t think Kawhi and KD are a particularly good fit, and I definitely worry about KD’s effectiveness, but I would reluctantly max both today if it were offered.
The next call I’d make would be to Kornet’s agent to offer 3 yrs guaranteed at the minimum. He would be a good fit with them.
That makes way more sense, but to me, all this Brooklyn and NY stuff makes no sense to me at all. The best destination from day 1 for most of these guys has been the Clippers. They have a good team, good coach, good management, deeper pockets than anyone, major city, and great weather.
They should literally have a choice of who they want unless Khawi wants to try to repeat in Toronto or for some non basketball reason someone wants to be in NY .
Your problem young skywalker is you are viewing the world through your own eyes….
Kawhi and KD have won multiple rings already. They are going to earn somewhere between a half a billion and a billion dollars during their career, That’s factorial!
Maybe legacy means something to them? Maybe winning a title here catapults them higher in the all time Pantheon than winning one more as the “other guy in GS”. Maybe they see how Clyde is revered 50 years later….
Or maybe they are out of their fucking minds 🙂
I don’t believe any of those rumors. It seems to me likely we get Kyrie. He could go to the Nets, but I can imagine they’re thinking is he enough of an upgrade over Russell, while the Knicks won’t have any doubts.
You know what? No. No he doesn’t. I have hard evidence for this. I knew, because I have a tiny shred of common sense rattling around in my head, that giving a 4/72 contract to Joakim Noah was a horrible idea. I knew that it was a horrible idea to try to build a winner around Carmelo Anthony’s decline phase. I said so at the time! So I was right and Phil Jackson was wrong.
He doesn’t know jack fucking shit about team construction, which is why his tenure here ended in a pile of smoldering embers. He also thought Carmelo Anthony, age 30, was a mega max player. That doesn’t speak volumes to his talent evaluating abilities.
Please do keep defending him though, it is endlessly entertaining.
The Austrian economists will end up cancelling strat’s membership card if he keeps this constant appeal to authority. Karl Marx forgot more about economy than you and I will ever know!
lol
I don’t want to see Frank get bigger and stronger, he needs to get quicker and more athletic.
This is not the best analogy I’ve ever seen 🙂 🙂
If Kemba to Boston is a done deal, someone needs to get fired in Charlotte. They knew coming into the year he was a free agent. If they weren’t going to pay him enough to keep him, they should have traded him at the deadline last year to jump start the rebuild. Granted, becoming eligible for a supermax made it tougher, but they supposedly offer a LOT less.
Wolves desperate to trade Wiggins to be able to sign Russell, Wiggins destiny to become a Knick is alive.
@77
You keep confusing the president’s job with the GM’s job, but that’s OK. The entire media did the same thing for years. That’s why we have an incompetent president now. You know, Phil’s former GM that took over after Phil was fired. He immediately screwed up the 20 million dollars of Rose cap space that ultimately helped contribute to driving Prozingis away. Now we have a PG Dallas couldn’t trade that management no longer has faith in, excess cap space we can’t use, and 2 draft picks that are unlikely to yield anything more than role players.
Oh yeah, they also drafted Knox instead Bridges when Gaines loved Bridges and he fit where they were going.
You and everyone else’s unwillingness to lay some of the blame at the appropriate feet (MILLS) and get his ass in a job where it belongs is working out great for you, isn’t it?
I’m here telling you that Phil’s GM skills sucked, he didn’t relate to young players, and he was a stubborn old mule and you FOOLS can’t even say, you know what, you are right, Mills sucked too, he shares some of the responsibility, and he’s continuing to screw us!
Pathetic!!!
You deserve to have a shit team.
If Kemba leaves Charlotte, do they have cap space for Wiggins?
This is 100% true. And based on his performance here. I’d even go a step further…Phil has clearly forgotten everything he ever knew about talent evaluation.
Look man.
When Phil came in here, he was brought in to fix shit. He had control of all basketball decisions. If he couldn’t be arsed to handle the details of things and instead left that stuff to be handled by an incompetent well that’s on him.
The major mistakes that the Knicks made during Phil’s tenure are his responsibility, full stop. He’s the fucking idiot that thought pinch passing ability was a reason to give a long-term contract to a broken down old Joakim Noah and he’s the one that thought he could triangulize Carmelo Anthony into greatness and he’s the one who gave away the pick for the Wear Bear. Those are all decisions he signed off on. Plus all of the other shitty decisions.
None of this makes Steve Mills smart. He is obviously terrible at being a basketball executive. Just like Phil Jackson.
Yeah Strat, you’re taking this the wrong way. Everyone here knows Mills is an idiot and that Phil was an awful executive. The difference is you for some reason actually defend Phil’s record here, nobody is defending Mills.
I’m reading that Minny wants to open cap space (supposedly to sign Russell) and wants to unload Teague (1 year/$19m). If they are willing to include a 1st round pick, the Knicks need to get all over that.
@81
Yeah, because Marx is dead and Phil is presumably still alive.
If the damn president of basketball operations, yeah that was his job, was not responsible for the moves his team makes, then what the hell is he even getting paid for? If he’s just an administrator hire me instead, I’d do his job for 1% of his payment. Trying to say the president of BASKETBALL operations is not the guy who should be blamed for basketball decisions is a new low I didn’t expect we would reach.
Nobody ever defended Mills, in fact we’ve been shitting on him ever since they announced he was back, but that doesn’t fit the narrative so it didn’t happen! Most of the good will has been directed literally solely at Perry and at hoping Mills doesn’t screw up too badly, like Phil did before him.
So, Nikola Mirotic just decided to sign with… Barcelona? What a weird decision. I guess he just wants to go back to Europe, because he was sure to get paid this summer by some team.
Yeah that was odd, read a report that I believe Utah was preparing to offer Mirotic a 3yr-45m deal.
I just can’t believe that anyone would defend Phil Jackson by blaming his leadership failures on his #2. It’s like a ruru-level class in spin.
https://media.giphy.com/media/l2JdU7e38RqzdlakU/giphy.gif
In all seriousness, when has anyone here ever defended Steve Mills? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a neutral statement about him – virtually everything ever typed on this blog referent to Mills has been (justifiably) highly critical of him. Of course we think Mills is an incompetent sleazeball that has somehow gained Dolan’s favor and is thus immune to firing. My guess is that he makes sure to buy front row seats every time Guitar Jimmy throws himself a concert.
The weird part to me is that neither Mirotic ($29M) nor Collison ($33M) have even made that much money. It sorta makes sense for someone like David West ($92M) or Tyson Chandler ($175M) to leave money on the table.
After taxes and fees, that’s probably another $12-15M for Mirotic and $15-18M for Collison at the rumored contract values. That is a shitton of money to a normal person, but it’s still an exhaustible amount when you’ve got 50 years left on the planet. The idea of leaving another $25M or so in take-home pay on the table? Unfathomable to me. There’s a significant gap between having, say, $12M in the bank and having $35M.
Maybe Mirotic will get paid well in Barcelona and not have to pay the ridiculous local taxes. Maybe it’ll be easier to shelter money over there.
Collison’s decision makes about as much as sense as his faith does, to me. He’s walking away from SO much money, but if given the option, he would also walk away from a life-saving blood transfusion.
Yeah, and Mirotic was pretty much surely getting a 40 million deal at least from a team. Collison I understand because he’s nuts and the reason was religious, but Mirotic must really freaking hate living in the US to do this. Well, I would pay to live in Barcelona, so getting paid to go there would be a dream, but well, I could also live in Milwaukee or Indianapolis a couple of years for 40 million.
Woj is reporting that Mudiay is on Charlotte’s radar for Kemba Walker replacements. This would easily be the best outcome for us Knicks fans. Hopefully Charlotte signs Boogie and Mudiay so that we can’t.
We’ve also been linked to Robin Lopez, George Hill, and Reggie Bullock. I would’t mind any of these guys in a reserve role, but I’d definitely skip on Lopez to keep Kornet.
Strat’s conspiracy theory that Phil was getting paid $12M a year to do nothing regarding basketball operations is brand new. He used to try to defend the moves Phil Jackson made on the merits, since everyone on Earth knew he had final say over any and all roster decisions (this was reported ad nauseam and confirmed by everyone from Phil to Dolan to Mills).
What caused the shift in tactics, Strat? Did defending his actual record become untenable when Carmelo Anthony was out of the NBA before the enormous contract Phil gave him was even up? When Courtney Lee had to be dumped with sweetener? When Joakim Noah showed everyone how seriously Phil takes culture by admitting he partied himself out of New York? When Kristaps Porzingis was mediocre and injured and possibly a rapist? When Frank Ntilikina was the worst player in the NBA? When the pick Phil essentially traded for Travis Wear became #31?
What prompted the change in Phil Jackson revisionism tactics?
I am anxious to see what another team gives Mudiay. If he gets more than $5M a year, I am going to howl with delight.
And also he had a rough childhood, so good for him.
he wasn’t used correctly
he wasn’t managed properly
the stats undervalue him
he just needs to learn how to shoot, handle and rebound
second-round picks don’t ever work out anyway
I saved you some time, go ahead and get on with your day
There would be nothing redeeming or defensible about any kind of Cousins contract. One-year, multi-year, whatever. I promise it would be stupid and end badly. The reasons are so numerous and seem so self-evident I barely even care to get into them.
Regarding the Russell/Brogdon/Randle plan and ptmilo’s criticism of it, I don’t particularly like it either. I’ve just resigned myself to the fact that we’re 100% spending the cap space on players this offseason, which is very dumb. I guess what some of us are thinking is if salary dumps are off the table (again, very dumb), what’s the best way to allocate the money? I still don’t like Randle within that framework, but I think Russell and Brogdon deals make sense within it.
I’m very confused and entertained by someone conceding that Phil Jackson has no idea how to be a GM but maintaining that he’s an all-time expert at the nebulous idea of “team construction.”
What the hell is the difference supposed to be?
I’d be real excited to argue over why a team of Russell, Brogdon, Barrett, Randle and Mitch went 12-14 in the first third of the season
man i read the woj tweet about charlotte pivoting to scouring the pg market for ish smith or mudiay and actually felt bad for another fan base for a second
looks kemba to boston and kyrie to the nets
Imagine if we have been calling the FO to take on bad contracts for assets, and then they’re the team Minnesota is dumping Wiggins to?
I feel dirty for even suggesting this, sorry guys.
@105
Good so far.
Unless the Knicks eventually get into a bidding war for Mudiay!
Teague!
at this rate durant and kawhi will be the only free agents left tomorrow
rubio to the pacers apparently a done deal depending on how you feel about spanish twitter
ptmilo…..don’t worry about it. charlotte doesn’t have a fan base.
With Kyrie gone,
The pipe dream is Kawhi and KD.
Second is Kawhi OR KD plus Russsel.
That’s the two option for contention. If we can’t do that russel at Max is one of our best worst option.
If we get the 2 scenario, de andre and Rubio at a discount will make us a great team
D’Angelo Russell loves being in New York and would be interested in signing with the Knicks if they were interested in him.
I hope Dennis Smith Jr makes a huge jump this season because he’s looking like the starting point guard.
Are the Nets keeping DLo restricted? Or are they letting him go?
From what I’ve seen, Brooklyn is willing to help D’Lo with a sign and trade and that they will be renouncing his RFA rights tomorrow
We lose on the court, now we lose off the court.
Wow, the Sixers losing out on Butler is big. He was a key player for them. However, Horford fits in really well there and Harris can step up his game, as well, now that he’s no longer the fourth option. If they can get Richardson in a Miami sign and trade, they could be okay.
So if Durant and Khawi team up what’s the plan?
Do they take turns doing load management for the next 4 years and only play together during the playoffs where they lose to a healthy Bucks team in the 2nd round?
There’s always Boogie.
Mills watched a lot of New Orleans games and assures me that Boogie would be a perfect fit next to Robinson even though they are both Cs that score inside and the New Orleans experiment was considered a failure (that i made a lot of money betting against early on). Team construction talent at its finest.
I guess were left with a shot at Russell.
Where is te news from that the sixer lost Butler and are gaining Horford? Why would they want Horford if they have Embiid?
Sixer Twitter. I think Horford fits pretty much every team. Him and Embiid in the frontcourt with Harris at the 3 and Simmons and Redick in the backcourt with either Eric Gordon or Josh Richardson off the bench? Good team.
That can’t be an official outlet (at least since they fired Colangelo)
The Nets are willing to sign and trade D’Angelo Russell so he can get his 5th year and (most likely) to ensure he doesn’t end up at MSG 41 games a year. Chances are D’Angelo Russell would have to leave a ton of money on the table to sign here, and that’s if the Knicks are even interested. We’re probably going to end up with Terry Rozier, Julius Randle, and Reggie Bullock when all is said and done.
It’s depressing to be a Knicks fan. To paraphrase Mills, we are not getting any suddenly available nice shiny things.
Rozier and Randle are very very possible.
I won’t be depressed at all if the Knicks sign no one of consequence.
If they’re looking at Terry Rozier, then I agree, just don’t sign anyone!
Did Noel sign with someone? I like that idea a lot better than Robin but I guess Robin isn’t the worst possibility. It’d still be better to just grab a guy off the scrapheap and hope for some magic.
Also I am very much here for Strat getting all salty about Phil’s faded mystique. We’re swimming in the ocean here! Next step is attributing serious Knick interest in Boogie to a conversation he had with Steve “I make all the bad decisions around here” Mills where Steve “Seriously I do everything everyone else takes too many naps to get anything done” Mills decided that something Strat thinks failed horribly but isn’t really connected to our situation at all was in fact the best play to make like the fool he is haha. Phil is like conservatism, he can not fail he can only be failed. I think it’s a tribal reaction – Jackson is an aging Boomer icon therefore he is inherently better at all aspects of basketball than any Gen X slacker (Strat, do you think Mills is a millennial? I’m tossin real soft pitches here.). That reality has shown that he is, in fact, truly horrible at both roster construction and talent evaluation is just more proof that Steve “master of stealing job responsibilities from others while they are napping” Mills is a nefarious no good dumb-dumb*.
After all, Phil Jackson has forgotten more about roster construction and talent evaluation than we will ever know. You can tell because they are not skills he demonstrated as a coach or as an executive or ever. So obviously he started forgetting about that stuff real early. Before he’d have any chance to use it. Probably in high school.
*I mean, sure, Mills is a nefarious no good dumb-dumb, but this stuff was really beyond the pale:
PJ: I have a great idea!
SM: Jeanie Buss sure looked good today in the ‘gram.
PJ: I HAVE TO TAKE A NAP
SM: Now to abscond with Phil signature stamp so I can trade for Rose while no one is looking, bwahaha cackle cackle ect.
Steve “quiet like a ninja” Mills related this exchange to me, in person yesterday while we were noshing on lunch in Bryant Park.
I’m just tired of paying guys and hoping they will somehow be double as good as they were in their last stop. Terry Rozier played really well in the regular season and playoffs last season, but this year that Brad Stevens magic didn’t do the trick. If we’re to believe that chemistry issues essentially made Rozier half as valuable in a contract year, then yeah I guess grabbing a 25 year old Rozier wouldn’t be the worst thing if he got paid like Joe Ingles. You can see a valuable two way player in Rozier, and it helps that he’s a league average 3point shooter, but he’s viewed as a starter and Chicago wants him so that should inflate his market value. The most I’d be willing to offer Rozier is a 3yr/$43.5 million dollar deal. You could find worse ways to spend $14M in the NBA , and then we still have a ton of money to use for trades and 1 year contracts.
Brogdon is a guy we’re not linked to, but I’d have no issues giving a 50/40/90 two way player a deal around $22M a year. Brogdon is the guy Milwaukee seems to believe Middleton is, and I’d be amped if we landed him to play next to RJ. Rozier and Brogdon should probably be the main priorities should we get spurned by Kawhi and Durant. Those two probably cost you around $38M realistically ($16M for Rozier and $22M for Brogdon), and that leaves you with $32M to work with.
I am just so depressed reading these posts. I might just shut down until it’s all over and therapy in the meantime.
I think Rozier could be an asset on a small, long term deal. Like 4/$20M or something.
The problem is he’ll likely get 300%+ of that.
Exactly. I actively like Rozier. But not on a big money contract.
See this is the part where we find out how impossible it is to sign free agents to team-friendly deals. It’s just really hard to get value when the Terry Roziers of the league are getting $15M AAV contracts.
Those are the kind of contracts that are the salary dumps of tomorrow.
The whole point of Phil Jackson was that he had 11 rings for Dolan to cede control to. Then, when offered assets for the decline phase of Carmelo Anthony, he threw all of Dolan’s money AND a no-trade clause at him. That’s all you need to know about the Phil Jackson era. He had autonomy and he sucked with it.
So, wait, “The Summer of Zion and Durant” is about to become the summer of Rozier and Randle? Yeesh. Sorry fellas.
I just don’t want Rozier at all, at any price. I don’t think he’s good and he seems to be a headache too. He’s basically Reggie Jackson but even less efficient
I want no part of Rozier as well. At the minimum sure I’d take a flyer but at anywhere near what he’d demand no way. DSJ has a better career 2pt%, a similar TS%, and more assists per 36 and DSJ isn’t a good basketball player.
The starting five of please don’t be here next year is: Cousins, Rozier, Mudiay, Morris, Rose
I don’t actively hate Rozier and Morris they are mediocre and are going to get paid. Rose, Mudiay, and Cousins I wouldn’t want for free.
What I also don’t get is that Rozier will have offers, so it’s not even like you could get him on a one-year deal. What are they even doing? “We won’t sign lesser free agents to long term deals if we miss out on the top guys…but we’re also interested in signing Terry Rozier.” It just doesn’t make sense.
Let’s just hope that KD and Kawhi do their thinking for them and sign here together.
I want Robin Lopez back because he told me he would do something with me about comics (he’s a big fan) but then he got traded. So if he’s a Knick again, score!
Perry orchestrated the absurd Vince Carter and Zach Randolph signings in Sacramento a couple years ago. I’m hearing whispers of us eyeing over the hill veterans on short contracts and it feels really similar. If we sign a bunch of 30-year-old players to 1 and 2-year contracts I will be really upset.
That’s why we have to hope that KD and Kawhi just take the decision-making off of Mills and Perry’s hands.
Yeah, I just hope it all gets solved by the first week of free agency. I really fear what could happen if they sit on 2 max slots through an entire free agency period.
Wow, the Jazz apparently are trying to make a move for Bojan Bogdanovic. Holy shit, he would be an insanely good fit for them, right?
Conley
Mitchell
Bogdanovic
Ingles
Gobert
That’s a hell of a close out lineup, although they probably would then need to keep Favors on the team because I don’t know if Ingles is a guy you want playing the 4 all-season long. Actually, they might have to actually waive Favors in order to afford Bogdanovic, so I guess they still need to add a power forward then. I don’t think you can afford Ingles being the full-time 4.
We should be trying to build our team like the Jazz. Barrett and Robinson are similar to Mitchell and Gobert and may eventually be a better tandem.
FREE AGENCY DAY!!!
My guess:
KD does in fact sign for 4 years no options with the Knicks.
Knicks wait to sign anyone else until they hear what happens with Kawhi.
Kawhi signs a 1+1 with Toronto.
Knicks sign 1 year deals with remainder of cap space and/or rent out the space but nothing beyond 1 year. My guess is that it’ll be grizzled vets who can shoot ie. Wayne Ellington.
Knicks go 27-55, get #7 pick.
Sign Kawhi or AD in offseason.
WIN.