Knicks Morning News (2019.06.25)

  • [Sports Illustrated] Adam Silver Fines Knicks, James Dolan With NBA Reputation In Mind
    (Monday, June 24, 2019 9:18:11 PM)

    The NBA’s willingness to punish the Knicks signals to players and the NBPA they should regard Silver as an honest broker between teams and players, rather than a more authoritarian, owner/governor-friendly commissioner.

  • [Sports Illustrated] Andre Iguodala on Free Agency: ‘Nobody is Going to the Knicks, Sorry’
    (Monday, June 24, 2019 4:46:48 PM)

    Andre Iguodala just broke the hearts of many Knicks fans.

  • [Sports Illustrated] Knicks Fined $50K for Banning New York Daily News From Press Availability
    (Monday, June 24, 2019 3:14:05 PM)

    The Knicks didn’t grant the New York Daily News access to their post-draft press conferences on Friday, June 21.

  • [Hoops Rumors] Knicks Notes: Free Agency, Fine, Iguodala, Kings Trade
    (Monday, June 24, 2019 7:53:46 PM)

    The Knicks are hoping to land at least one of the marquee free agents — Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard or Kyrie Irving — but if they come up short, they won’t eat up their cap space with multi-year contracts, Ian Begley of SNY TV reports. They don’t want to take on a bad contract in order to accumulate more assets. It’s […]

  • [YahooSports] Andre Iguodala’s exit line on CNBC: “Nobody’s going to the Knicks. Sorry.”
    (Monday, June 24, 2019 9:36:08 PM)

    Andre Iguodala is a smart businessman who is heavily invested in tech startups (as are several Golden State Warriors players). That — and the fact he’s a famous NBA player — made him a good guest on CNBC’s Power Lunch show Monday. Iguodala also has a few good connections to the thinking of the Golden State Warriors’ free agents Kevin Durant and Klay Thompson.

  • [YahooSports] Report: Knicks will roll over cap space if they don’t sign Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving, Kawhi Leonard
    (Monday, June 24, 2019 3:14:45 PM)

    The Knicks are chasing Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving. New York will reportedly get a meeting with Kawhi Leonard. But Irving appears headed to the Nets, and Durant might follow.

  • [YahooSports] Kevin Durant still will sign with Knicks in NBA free agency, Jalen Rose says
    (Monday, June 24, 2019 3:29:25 PM)

    Kevin Durant still will sign with Knicks in NBA free agency, Jalen Rose says originally appeared on nbcsportsbayarea.com Jalen Rose isn’t changing his mind. He still believes Kevin Durant is going from the Bay Area to the Big Apple. “At the beginning of the season, I felt like he would leave for New York City,” Rose said Monday morning on ESPN’s “Get Up.”

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks free-agent target Kawhi Leonard has meeting set up with Clippers
    (Monday, June 24, 2019 11:16:47 PM)

    Free agent Kawhi Leonard will reportedly meet with the Los Angeles Clippers on July 2.

  • [SNY Knicks] RJ Barrett hopes to one day have Zion Williamson on Knicks
    (Monday, June 24, 2019 8:26:34 PM)

    Knicks rookie RJ Barrett is dreaming of a potential reunion with Zion Williamson.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks’ Lance Thomas is a big RJ Barrett fan: ‘He’s a force’
    (Monday, June 24, 2019 5:00:25 PM)

    The longest-tenured Knick is a big fan of the newest one. Lance Thomas watched fellow Duke player R.J. Barrett several times during the season and came away impressed.

  • [SNY Knicks] Warriors’ Andre Iguodala: ‘Nobody’s going to the Knicks, sorry’
    (Monday, June 24, 2019 5:28:35 PM)

    Andre Iguodala is tired of hearing about the Knicks landing top free agents this summer.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks respond to getting fined by NBA for violating media rules
    (Monday, June 24, 2019 4:06:44 PM)

    The NBA fined the Knicks organization $50,000 for violating the league’s rules regarding equal access to media after it banned the New York Daily News from their post-draft press conference.

  • [SNY Knicks] Latest on Knicks free agent target Kevin Durant: Nets plotting power play to lure KD?
    (Monday, June 24, 2019 2:46:29 PM)

    Warriors star Kevin Durant is one of the prizes of free agency, but the idea that he could join the Knicks this summer took a hit when he suffered an Achilles injury that could keep him out for the entire 2019-20 season. Here’s the latest…

  • [SNY Knicks] New team jumps Knicks as betting favorites to sign free agent Kevin Durant
    (Monday, June 24, 2019 2:00:21 PM)

    The Knicks’ betting odds to sign free agent Kevin Durant have taken a dip, according to Caesars, with New York now the third-likeliest landing spot for the star.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks free agent target Kevin Durant has ‘met twice’ recently with Kyrie Irving about joining same team
    (Monday, June 24, 2019 12:56:00 PM)

    The talk of Durant and Irving possibly linking up is nothing new, but news of their two recent meetings should turn some heads.

  • [SNY Knicks] Here are the Knicks’ updated odds to sign pending free agent Kawhi Leonard
    (Monday, June 24, 2019 11:52:55 AM)

    With free agency less than a week away from kicking off in the NBA, the Nets have been closely related with some of the top players on the market, including Kawhi Leonard.

  • [ESPN] Knicks fined $50K for banning Daily News
    (Monday, June 24, 2019 3:16:09 PM)

    The Knicks have been fined $50K for banning reporters from the New York Daily News from a post-draft presser on Friday.

  • [NYPost] Iffy Kevin Durant status adds to Knicks spectacle: ‘I wouldn’t do it’
    (Monday, June 24, 2019 4:05:19 PM)

    The Knicks don’t enter free agency on June 30 in the driver’s seat for a union of Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving. And they don’t enter with the same jubilation that signing Durant will end their woes next season. When owner James Dolan predicted “a very successful offseason when it comes to free agents,” he…

  • [NYPost] Andre Iguodala has harsh words for Knicks’ Kevin Durant push
    (Monday, June 24, 2019 1:04:22 PM)

    The tides of free agency are already moving against the Knicks. At least according to Andre Iguodala. In an appearance on CNBC, Iguodala said both Kevin Durant and Klay Thompson would re-sign with the Warriors, though it’s unclear what’s behind his statement. As for the Knicks, who are expected to pursue Durant even after he…

  • [NYPost] Nets mulling DeAndre Jordan signing to entice Kevin Durant
    (Monday, June 24, 2019 12:16:33 PM)

    GM Sean Marks said Monday the Nets would look to add some size this summer. It looks like DeAndre Jordan could be that big man — as well as a lure to land the biggest free-agent fish: Kevin Durant. Both Bleacher Report and the New York Times reported the Nets are exploring the feasibility of…

  • [NYPost] NBA fines Knicks $50,000 for media access violation
    (Monday, June 24, 2019 11:36:57 AM)

    The NBA fined the Knicks $50,000 Monday for violating league rules regarding equal access for media. The team didn’t allow the Daily News access to its press conference Friday in which they introduced NBA Draft picks RJ Barrett and Ignas Brazdeikis. “The Knicks acknowledge that we did not comply with the NBA’s media policy, and…

  • [NYPost] This could be Frank Ntilikina’s first step toward Knicks comeback
    (Monday, June 24, 2019 9:16:15 AM)

    With a push from his new French agent, Frank Ntilikina is all in on playing for the French National Team in the prestigious FIBA World Cup, according to NBA sources. The event is held in China from Aug. 31 to Sept. 15. The French team is expected to gather for training camp and exhibitions starting…

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    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    136 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2019.06.25)”

    1. Listened to the Locked on Knicks podcast this AM who had Marc Berman on – really sounds like the Knicks FO is very very unsure about whether Durant is going to come. Interestingly Berman said as if it was ridiculous to think otherwise that of course a calf strain would lead to increased risk for an Achilles injury. Regardless of what has been reported, it seems the Dubs really did a bad thing in letting him play under the pretense that he couldn’t hurt it worse. Yes of course the player has to agree to play, but also of course players want to play and if the medical staff is telling you you can’t hurt it worse, then why wouldn’t you say yes?

      Assuming this is true and that we are not going to sign any big FAs this summer, I would be perfectly content to spend about $40MM of the cap space signing guys to either 1 year deals or to longer deals that are very clearly value deals, and then using the $20MM to take on bad contracts this offseason to grease other teams’ spending, then hold onto the rest for midseason deals. I’d give Vonleh 3 years at the mini-MLE number, not sign Mudiay.

      Assuming (big assumption) that Frank will be able to shoot 35% from 3 this year, he actually seems like he would fit quite well with RJ. An interesting lineup could be Frank, Dot, RJ, Knox, and Mitch.

      I also think Kadeem Allen is going to play a lot this year if the big game FA hunting doesn’t pan out. i love that dude.

    2. I’d love to make some value deals, but this is not a good year for them. Many teams are under the cap and there is likely to be heavy bidding for the good performers. So don’t get your hopes up. I predict we check out more players like Mudiay and Hezonja who have talent, but didn’t succeed where they were first drafted.

    3. I stated it yesterday in a different way. The Knicks can only be a draw for superstars that feel they can win surrounded by kids. For mid-tier free agents, the really good complimentary pieces we’re poison. What we did with Enes Kanter and DeAndre Jordan last year is a warning sign that said, “don’t come to NY if you’re an established player. Our kids will get the playing time”.

      In retrospect, that was a mistake. We should have made it more inviting to them. Now, with no established veterans on the roster, we have the aura of a team in full rebuild. So the only real option is to continue collecting kids and building through the draft. This is where losing a player of KP’s talent level was devastating.

    4. Brian Cronin
      June 24, 2019 at 5:44 pm
      I call BS on Perry’s ninja approach to GMing. We heard the same stuff about Phil and other GMs. Every GM has moves that the reporters don’t know about, but they also have plenty of moves that reporters do know about. The reporters were all over Knox being the pick before he was the pick (I won’t mention Barrett, as, well, come on, he was the consensus #3 pick). Reporters knew the Knicks were going to stretch waive Noah well before it happened. Melo to OKC was reported before it happened (heck, there were reports of OKC’s interest a full two months before they acquired him). The KP trade happened after the media reported that KP had asked for a trade. Sometimes moves are hidden, of course, like the Knicks quietly shopping KP to NO and Sacramento, but more often moves are reported before they happen, which just plain makes sense with so many people involved and thus so many opportunities for leaks. This is not even a knock on Perry, just a knock on the idea that he’s somehow distinctly discreet.

      I don’t think the front office needs to be ninja stealthy or planting fake stories to result in press coverage of “Knicks will keep cap space and not take on bad contracts”. All it takes is for Perry to tell his team “we are committed and focused on bringing in our free agent targets and will not do anything to compromise our ability to do that until it is no longer an option”. I’m guessing there was an actual proposal from some team to trade our cap space for their bad contracts, but the only take away I have from this media chatter is that Perry isn’t ready to do that yet. Either the offer wasn’t good enough or he feels it’s still worth seeing how it shakes out with his free agency targets and is committed to that option while it’s still on the table. Also we don’t know what they mean by “bad contracts”, they might mean commitments that would be multi-year and contracts with one year are fine…

    5. Oh yeah, you better believe they’re bringing back Mudiay in that case. I think it’s part of why people want D-Lo, just to close that door.

      It’s either him or Elfrid Peyton. It’s not gonna be just DSJ and Kadeem running the point, although I like Kadeem.

    6. Fast forward to late November. The Knicks did a bunch of 1 year deals, preserving some $30 million in cap space and nothing else. RJ is playing OK but is clearly not an immediate all star. KP is putting together a string of 8 games with 25 ppg, 2 threes and 2 blocks, and Dallas has twice as many wins as NY.

      How long before the tabloids start demanding Perry’s head?

    7. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them! says:

      I seems like the management has the right idea in terms of the max slots. It’s being reported that they will only give max slots to Durant, Khawi, or Irving with the one exception being Kemba, but only if Durant or Khawi requests him.

      That takes Russell and any other 2nd tier players off the table. To me, that’s good news.

      The next test is what to do if they strike out with the max free agents (which seems more likely now). That’s a lot of cap space top fill.

      1. Solid rotation players in their low to mid 20s that fit long term and are signed to attractive enough deals that they can be used as part of a trade later if any opportunities present themselves. I include Vonleh in that category if the price is right.

      2. Young players that have disappointed elsewhere but are still young enough to have some small probability of breaking out into a category #1 type players (signed to short contracts). Hezonja probably still fits into that category given he has multiple skills. This would be more of what we have already been doing, but doing a better job of selecting the players. Perhaps we should be focusing more on defense instead of offense.

      3. Taking on bad contract for picks, but the duration should preferably be 1 year and definitely no longer than 2 years. I don’t want tie up a lot of cap space for more than a year for some “future” pick that will net us some 18-19 year old kid at that time and then wait until 2027-2028 for him to start coming into his own. Picks have become overvalued since drafting very young players became the norm.

      4. Veterans than can be mentors. I don’t see much point to this beyond a specific player that we are sure can help one of our kids. Then an inflated 1 year deal to get him into that role might be OK.

    8. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them! says:

      How long before the tabloids start demanding Perry’s head?

      Mills and Perry are made of Teflon. The tabloids will keep spinning away and deflecting the bad and not even consider the lack of doing anything really good over multiple years as a knock against them.

    9. Fast forward to late November. The Knicks did a bunch of 1 year deals, preserving some $30 million in cap space and nothing else. RJ is playing OK but is clearly not an immediate all star. KP is putting together a string of 8 games with 25 ppg, 2 threes and 2 blocks, and Dallas has twice as many wins as NY.

      How long before the tabloids start demanding Perry’s head?

      lol fast forward to January 2020. KP is either injured or for the last 3 weeks or has had a TS of 52 with a usage of 30 as his body begins to break down. Janis is hinting that even though KP signed a max contract, he’s monitoring the culture of the team and that this is not what he signed up for.

      Mills and Perry are made of Teflon. The tabloids will keep spinning away and deflecting the bad and not even consider the lack of doing anything really good over multiple years as a knock against them.

      They’re teflon because they treat the media nicely. As the Enes Kanter coverage showed us, if you’re nice to the media (read: give them content to write about) they’ll fawn all over you regardless of your actual value on or off the court. If you’re mean to the media, they’ll harness all their twitter followers and dudes like Howard Beck who have an endless axe to grind against the Knicks to attack you.

      Not that what Dolan does to the NYDN is smart (it’s really dumb in fact), but honestly, what the Daily News Sports section has become is trash, and hardly should be considered actual media – more like a troll operation.

    10. This is where losing a player of KP’s talent level was devastating.

      No what would have been devastating to the franchise would be to pay a 7 foot 3 twig with a career BPM of -0.1 and a ws/48 = 0.100 who hasn’t put in anything approaching a full season coming off an ACL tear 150M totally on the come….oh… and he may be a rapist, too….

    11. How long before the tabloids start demanding Perry’s head?

      Mills and Perry are made of Teflon. The tabloids will keep spinning away and deflecting the bad and not even consider the lack of doing anything really good over multiple years as a knock against them.

      In this is the case, I hope having Dolan as an owner might be an actual asset. He’s loyal to those who work for him. He gave Jackson three years despite the tabloids being very negative on Jackson much sooner than that. I hope gives Perry enough time. It’s not Perry’s fault KD was injured.

    12. Have you guys ever seen a tabloid? When they smell blood they go for it regardless of who and what and why, and I’m sure Perry knows it. I hope he’s as good as advertised in office politics and can deal with the pressure.

    13. we have the aura of a team in full rebuild.

      We are a team in full rebuild. It seems like a lot longer, but this was only year two of that. If the rookies start to work out we’ll start to improve. We positioned ourselves to take a Durant sized shortcut – didn’t work out.

    14. In retrospect, that was a mistake. We should have made it more inviting to them. Now, with no established veterans on the roster, we have the aura of a team in full rebuild. So the only real option is to continue collecting kids and building through the draft. This is where losing a player of KP’s talent level was devastating.

      Again, if there are any players who don’t look at this 17-win team and see a “full rebuild” in process, they’re idiots and shouldn’t be on the roster.

      You should want exactly zero players with an aspiration of 45 wins and an 8 seed. It’s not happening without a superstar or two. James Harden was worth 27 wins above replacement to the Rockets according to VORP. Add him, with one of the greatest offensive seasons we’ll see in our lifetime, and your team tops out at 45 wins. And he might be the most productive player in the league.

      Wave the white flag and have new guys come in with their eyes wide open. Players should expect to compete, but not win. That’s just how it’s going to be with the leaghe’s worst roster by talent, by far.

    15. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them! says:

      They’re teflon because they treat the media nicely.

      Treating the media professionally entitles you to be treated back fairly and professionally. It should not knowingly or unknowingly influence your spin on the news.

      I don’t always agree with Bondy, but I don’t think he’s negative because of the way he’s treated. He’s treated poorly because he tells the truth as he sees it. That’s mostly negative. The others are often full of crap because they don’t want to be treated like Bondy (and Isola before him).

      Mills is a snake. He’s obviously an incompetent basketball person. But he also has a history in the organization beyond basketball that probably should have disqualified him from a high level job with the Knicks to begin with. The thing is, he has his claws into Dolan in the same way Isiah did. He was previously Dolan’s eyes and ears into the organization. There’s no way on earth Phil wanted Mills as his GM. He had no relationship with him and they have diametrically opposed views on basketball. But that was part of the deal. Dolan wanted Mills there so he could know what was going on. Mills then used his friendly relationship with the press to advance his own interests.

      This is the current media spin.

      Mills made some mistakes early on, but that was before he had a competent GM like Perry.

      Mills WAS the GM under Phil.

      Where was his share of the blame and why did he get promoted?

      Unbiased fans want to know.

    16. I’m feeling optimistic (today) about our kids, but even so, they’re – at the very least – 3 years away on average from playing like competitive nba players.

      Which is why it does seem foolish not to rent out cap space for picks, but I guess there’s a mandate now to always be ready to take in disgruntled stars?

      Still, I think the Dallas picks will be good if not definitely great, and our pick could be very good each of the next two years… that’s enough in theory. 2022 is gonna be our year! Let’s all try to stay alive.

    17. How long before the tabloids start demanding Perry’s head?

      Any corporation that makes decisions based on what they read in the tabloids deserves to fail.

    18. I get that going from 17 wins to contender is unlikely, and that marginal wins don’t do much good until they get you into the playoffs, but I think positive players have more value than many are giving them credit for. To me, we already lucked out with Mitchell Robinson, and Mitch + minutes = Star, so we need to do everything we can to create and bolster that perception, which will make the Knicks more of a destination. I think his development and hopefully his ability to continue producing in larger minutes will naturally put us further ahead in the rebuild process than many are assuming. I think the Knicks are in a position to take on good value contracts that ideally allow enough future flexibility to still sign a star if available, and are also in a position to take on quality players (especially a point guard to run the offense and distribute) on one year contracts even at higher than their market rate AAV. I think this boosts the development and morale of our best performing young players who are most likely to be future contributors at the expense of minutes for underperforming, low likelihood players.

    19. Fast forward to late November. The Knicks did a bunch of 1 year deals, preserving some $30 million in cap space and nothing else. RJ is playing OK but is clearly not an immediate all star. KP is putting together a string of 8 games with 25 ppg, 2 threes and 2 blocks, and Dallas has twice as many wins as NY.

      fast forward to Christmas. Where KP is either winded and fading, or he’s hurt.

    20. How long before the tabloids start demanding Perry’s head?

      Any corporation that makes decisions based on what they read in the tabloids deserves to fail.

      I think the point here is not that the team is following the tabloids, but that the tabloids have a lot of influence over an average fan’s perception and feelings. No corporation can ignore bad media coverage that changes customer and investor opinion…

    21. Interesting little tidbit in Berman’s Post article about Frank is him training in Dallas with Kadeem Allen.

      So, who’s right: Igoudala or Jalen Rose? I hope Iggy is. Commit to the rebuild!

    22. KP may be awesome for some parts of the season. He’s also highly likely to get tired/injured and see his level of play decrease each month after that awesome stretch.

    23. I generally agree with Jowles but I’d probably take a shot at Elfrid Payton if we can get him for cheap as a replacement for Mudiay

    24. Mills is bad at basketball decisions but he wasn’t making those under Phil. Phil was POBO just like Perry is. GMs don’t necessarily have the same duties team to team. Why this continued attempt to resurrect Phil’s reputation?

    25. If they’re serious about using Barrett as a guard I imagine they’ll stick with DSj for now. Payton would be an upgrade but I suspect he’ll be getting a solid contract.

    26. The Knicks roster is filled with young players who need developing. Is Fizdale up to the task or are certain players in for more random unexplained trips to his “dog house”? It’s looking more and more that NY will be shut out of the big catches in free agency for better or for worse, so developing what they have will likely become the most important issue. So far Fizmagic is pretty underwhelming imo and he’ll need to come up with a better approach so as not to squander whatever potential the current players have. Hopefully he and his staff are up to it or this ride is going to get very bumpy in a hurry.

    27. Payton can’t really shoot and the league doesn’t seem to put a lot of value on guards who can’t shoot (which is pretty understandable).

    28. Zach Lowe says that there are reports that the Nets are having internal discussions is getting Irving by himself (i.e. without KD) or would it just be better to go with Russell.

    29. Wow so if Kyrie gets rejected by the Nets because he can’t deliver KD, does that mean they both go to the Knicks? I feel like Knick fans will automatically hate Kyrie right off the bat. He’s already persona non grata in Boston… Does he then slink over to the Lakers? What a strange offseason.

    30. Or maybe sign Alex Caruso? He played pretty well in limited minutes for the Lakers last year and he’ll only be 24.

    31. I’m willing to give Fiz a pass for last year. We tend to overlook or dismiss the good things. Like everyone blames him for Frank not improving or KP wanting to leave but no one gives him credit for Mitch improving, Kornet and Dotson improving, etc. If you look at it objectively

      Mudiay – we all hate him but he did really improve last year.
      Frank – Regressed but had injuries basically all season.
      Dotson – steady and reliable all season basically. Got better compared to his rookie year.
      Trier – was a great surprise and did get better.
      Knox – started off horribly, had a decent december, hit the rookie wall, did some nice things to close out the season.
      Mitch – really improved as the season progressed.
      Vonleh – had his best season as a pro.
      Kornet – good improvement from the last season.

      I don’t expect miracles especially if we just have a team of young kids. BUT, this season could be different because we won’t have Hardaway, Kanter or Lee on the team and Fiz won’t fee obligated to give those vets minutes. So hopefully all the kids can play consistent minutes and roles.

      Also, bringing up the Westchester Knicks coach who has been good with development could be a low key great move by us. And who knows…maybe he can take over if Fizdale is not up to the challenge.

    32. I’m rooting for Alex Caruso, mostly because of his male pattern baldness at such a young age. Can’t help but sympathize.

    33. I think there are a couple good moves if the big three reject us. I still think Brogdon would be a great signing even for close to the max, 27.25 million for him. I think 22 million starting might get it done. I also am warming up to Randle. Since we have Mitch I think we can afford his bad defense. His offensive game is extremely good and I could see him being the leading scorer on a 50 win team. I think any great player that is younger than 28 would be a good get. If we get a couple good players I’d be okay with Beverley. Just not as our only big free agent.

      I think we missed our chance to take contracts that expire next summer. Once free agency starts one year contracts are a lot less important to shed as the targets for that space get snapped up.

    34. I feel like Knick fans will automatically hate Kyrie right off the bat.

      This is a city that reveres point guards, and Kyrie would be the best one to play here since Frazier.

    35. So far Fizmagic is pretty underwhelming imo and he’ll need to come up with a better approach so as not to squander whatever potential the current players have.

      He definitely can’t pull the same “these kids are to young to learn a system so I’m not going to bother installing one on either side of the court” bullshit he pulled last year.

    36. I’d be down for Caruso or Payton. I think people on this blog realize that Frank is bad but DSJ wasn’t much better and how much a drag it was on the team. Yes it is possible that they will improve, but let them earn that opportunity. It’s not like they are no name UDFA’s, they will get some minutes and plenty of looks in practice, let them prove they deserve starter’s minutes. Replace what they did last year with a competent PG this year and you are a long way towards competitive.

    37. I think I’m getting whiplash going between “so glad we didn’t max the most promising player the Knicks have had in years” to “so sad we won’t be able to give the max to a guy who won’t play basketball for a year and then will be 32 years old and coming back from an Achilles injury.”

      Granted, Kobe blew his Achilles at 35 instead of 30 but he was an absolute shell of himself when he returned.

      Mike

    38. @36 Also, bringing up the Westchester Knicks coach who has been good with development could be a low key great move by us. And who knows…maybe he can take over if Fizdale is not up to the challenge.

      +1. This would be a low risk high reward move.

      Also this assumes the Knicks don’t sign a couple of Hardaway, Lee, or Kanter clones…..

    39. I get that going from 17 wins to contender is unlikely, and that marginal wins don’t do much good until they get you into the playoffs, but I think positive players have more value than many are giving them credit for. To me, we already lucked out with Mitchell Robinson, and Mitch + minutes = Star, so we need to do everything we can to create and bolster that perception, which will make the Knicks more of a destination

      Can we come up with a comprehensive list of players whose signings were defended along these lines?

      -Amar’e
      -Melo NTC max
      -Courtney Lee

      The cure for the franchise’s piss-poor reputation is not perception. It’s actually being a winning team. We know this about ticket sales: a superstar signing produces a temporary boost, but does not sustain them. A winning culture comes from wins, not a bunch of MLE-deserving veterans who get overpaid to “instill a winning culture.” It’s a half-measure, and far more costly and risky than just loading up on young players and seeing which ones pan out.

      Dolan having an aneurysm wouldn’t hurt the team’s rep, either.

    40. Yeah, I just thought about that after I wrote it!

      But to be fair…Kanter wasn’t signed with us, he was part of a trade package to get Melo out. That was a great trade for us cause it netted us the pick that led to Mitch but maybe when Perry says he doesn’t want to take on bad contracts to net future picks its because of the Kanter experience. Dude pouted like a little bitch the entire second season he was here. Its easy to say just don’t play him but vets expect to play. Maybe Perry doesn’t think its worth the drama of having to have a malcontent on the team.

      Hardaway I really didn’t have a problem with him playing the minutes he played. I mean, he was signed with us on a 4 year contract and the hope was that he could be a young veteran to be part of the future with KP. But once it was clear KP wasn’t going to stay with us, getting rid of him was the right move.

      We can argue about Randle or Russell or whatever non superstar young players we want to give a contract to but at the end of the day its all about the contract we give them. If we had signed Hardaway for 3 million less a year and there was no trade kicker (thanks Mills!), it would have been a much more attractive assett. Same with Courtney Lee (say 11 million instead of 14 and 3 years instead of 4).

      So its all about Perry being a good negotiator. Get Randle and Russell on fair deals that pay them but don’t overpay them and they’re young enough and good enough and hopefully improving more where odds are they will be movable in the future. Heck, they might even be attractive as part of a trade for a real superstar in the next 2 years. Its all about the details!

    41. Just a question for the group, how would you all feel if Brooklyn won a title before us? I honestly don’t know any nets fans….. so curious how the city would react…..

    42. I’d be ok with it. I prefer the Knicks of course, but Brooklyn would be better than many other teams.

    43. @47 — I personally wouldn’t care — nor do I feel like they are that much closer to a chip than the Knicks. The only thing I’m jealous about the Nets are the dope Biggie Smalls colorways.

      That being said: Since Dolan’s Razor snapped away all potential offseason moves to dust, I think it’s clear what must be done. Short of a Kawhi Leonard miracle signing, let’s take a giant ice bath and remove any and all horniness for a playoff run over the course of the next two seasons. Fuck it. Let’s build a gawd damn dynasty. Slow drip coffee our way to success and fail on the strength of our scouting. I can’t bear any more risk-heavy committed money.

      jotd: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxVZDxK02QE

    44. @THCJ Amare was good before he came here but was always an injury risk and only had a couple good seasons for us. Melo was always skilled but was never productive for the team, the low efficiency aspects of his game made him a net negative. The amare contract would have looked better if we did not spend so many resources in talent and cap space on melo. I am not saying we should get another Melo. Courtney Lee was a good player before us and was productive on the team, but the team had a lot of resources (minutes and cap space) tied up in unproductive players. Right now there are no such weights holding down this team except Noah’s stretch money, which is offset by Mitch and some of the other productive young guys. The problem the Knicks have had is not signing productive players, it is overpaying for players that did not have efficient production. Since we have Mitch at way below market rate, it is worth spending resources on players that are actually productive. Obviously you try to get discounts where you can (max players worth more than the max, young players who could break out and are cost controlled) but I think if you’ve seen enough from Mitch to believe he’s legit, paying market rate for some of your targets, especially young ones, is also a positive move, assuming they are actually good players.

    45. With respect, Amar’e’s was not a good contract independent of the self-directed Melo heist. That’s why he was a candidate for amnesty. He rarely played for the lone very-good Knicks team so far this century and was largely ineffective for the last three seasons of that contract. He produced 2.0 total VORP (5.4 wins) over five seasons under contract. Even if you found an RAPM number that suggested him three times as valuable, the contract would have been terrible.

      The only reason we don’t rue that fateful day is that we have the Melo, Curry and Bargnani trades to prop it up next to. Oh, and the dozens of shitty veteran signings that did almost nothing to move the needle.

      In other news — Iguodala is a homophobic bigot? Bummer. Always liked him, but his comments about Mark Jackson are stupid at best. His “all convictions should be held as equally valid” bullshit carries no weight.

    46. Zach Lowe says that there are reports that the Nets are having internal discussions is getting Irving by himself (i.e. without KD) or would it just be better to go with Russell.

      Now that just sounds like bonkers to me. I think the Knicks made moves specifically to free up space for Durant to bring over a second max guy, but if the Nets traded multiple draft picks to free up max cap space just so that specifically only Kevin Durant could sign there along with Kyrie Irving, then that is insane. Kyrie is the guy who likely gave them an under the table commitment, just like Durant likely gave the Knicks an under the table commitment. The Knicks’ position (Get KD and then presume another max guy will want to come over with KD) makes sense. The Nets’ position (clear out cap space to get Kyrie and Durant, but if Durant doesn’t come, pass on Kyrie, as well) is ludicrous.

    47. I honestly don’t know any nets fans….. so curious how the city would react…..”

      Raise your hand if you know any Nets fans.

      It ranks up there with a Big Foot sighting I think

    48. Wow so if Kyrie gets rejected by the Nets because he can’t deliver KD, does that mean they both go to the Knicks? I feel like Knick fans will automatically hate Kyrie right off the bat. He’s already persona non grata in Boston… Does he then slink over to the Lakers? What a strange offseason.

      that’s kind of the way it seems with kyrie right now…it definitely seems like the best move for him is to head to laker land…

    49. To all those who replied to my statement that “This is where losing a player of KP’s talent level was devastating.” Thanks.

      You all made my point. In a fantasy world, KP becomes an all-star starter. We have him and Mitch and now RJ Barrett. Now we look enticing.Put aside what the media morons say. We ARE in full rebuild and it WILL not happen overnight. So as much as a dream of a championship was a alluring, Durant and Kyrie would NOT have brought it to our doorstep. We are 2 years away from such a dream.

      We should probably not sign any free agents of substance or to any long term deals. 1-2 year deals for players that are told they are just placeholders. We may not even get decent players. If we double our win total from last season, I would be shocked. We need to see Frank, Knox, Trier and the rest of the kiddie Knicks improve dramatically for us to take the next step. We won’t be ready for any decent free agents until we have 4 or 5 NBA level players on this roster. That might mean needing another tank. With our 3 picks in the 2020 draft, we need to come up big. (BTW, I understand that the next great draft is 2021.)

      So saddle up guys and get ready for another lonnnnnnnnnng season. And also, be alright with it. It’s the only path to getting better.

      BTW, I was a Nets fan – when they had Rick Barry and Dr. J. and weren’t in the NBA. Once they moved into the NBA they became dirt to me.

    50. Porzingis officially getting 5/$158M. It’s hard to overstate the extent to which we dodged a bullet. More like a hydrogen bomb, actually.

      Is there any way to bet the over on Dallas, but only for November?

    51. So the Mavs are offering KP the full max – 5 years, $158 million

      Damn, I wish that was us.

    52. Jowles, the only thing that I think is different now vs. then with the contracts you’re talking about (STAT, Melo, etc)…is that we truly do have a nice foundation of young players and picks. I’m not talking about all of our young players being good per say…really we can probably only say Mitch and probably RJ as potential long term good pieces. But we have a lot of youth. Even more than when we first signed STAT. And we have picks going forward, more than just our own too. Even before the Melo and Bargs trades, when we just signed STAT, we had all ready given up picks to clear cap space for 2010. Melo wiped away more picks and then Bargs wiped away even more. By the time Phil took over, we didn’t have a pick his first off season or the year after we drafted KP. And yes, we probably could have taken back some contracts to get picks back.

      But now adding a few veterans…would it really be so bad? If they’re the right age at the right price and fill obvious needs…why not try to built it up? Especially with the flattened lottery odds and the extra Dallas picks. It feels like we can keep building through the draft and add a key free agent or two to help improve the team.

    53. @59 – I wake up daily thanking God that I was born a Yankee fan. Cashman is the Ninja king.

      I’m super glad we didn’t keep KP, BTW. We just need Dallas to be good enough not to land a top-10 pick in 2020 and bad enough that it’s a high pick in the teens.

    54. If they’re the right age at the right price

      Veteran players that you would like if they are the right price are going to be making at least $10 million more than what you deem the right price.

    55. @59 – I wake up daily thanking God that I was born a Yankee fan. Cashman is the Ninja king.

      I’m super glad we didn’t keep KP, BTW. We just need Dallas to be good enough not to land a top-10 pick in 2020 and bad enough that it’s a high pick in the teens.

      I believe you’re describing the conditions of the 2023 Dallas pick the Knicks own. They also have the 2021 pick unprotected.

      I don’t know, you’d imagine Dallas isn’t in the dark on his medical condition and would only invest that money if he had a good prognosis.

    56. I wake up daily thanking God that I was born a Yankee fan.

      BURN IN HELL!!

      Fondly,
      A Mets Fan

    57. @geo – ts, bpm and any advanced stat are backwards looking…. and by those metrics dennis smith wasn’t good….

      but if you look at his secondary skills…. stls + blks…. 2p fg%…. he looks like a pretty decent player because those are pretty tough categories to look good in…. so why does it look like he suck?

      it’s mainly because of a really poor ft% and really poor 3p% and a really high TO rate… i mean poor is putting it lightly… it sucks… and yes it matters… but these are the type of things that can and do get better as ppl age…. that’s why he’s infinitely better to bet on succeeding as opposed to frank…. who has ok defensive numbers but cannot score anywhere on the court….

      and yea a two year trend line shoudl be taken with a grain of salt… but he’s already increasing his ftr and lowering his 3pr…. which means he’s learning to leverage his physical advantages to get the easy buckets he’s capable of….

      so he’s still a work in progress but he’s developing in a way that it’s very possible… almost likely… that you’ll see some stark improvement eventually….

    58. I have a friend who grew up in Brooklyn and for some reason was always a Nets fan. Now I have friends who have kids in Brooklyn and their kids are growing up Nets fans, but I still only know the one adult

    59. I wake up daily thanking God that I was born a Yankee fan. Cashman is the Ninja king.

      in ’75 i had a choice that summer for my birthday to either get a bicycle or tv…i chose the tv (ended up getting the bike for christmas)…

      at the time my favorite shows (abbott and costello, the odd couple, the honeymooners) were all on WPIX, channel 11…which just so happened to be where phil and bill were announcing yankee games…

      i am so very thankful i was never that in to some of the shows over on channel 9 wwortv where they showed the mets games :)

    60. The Nets logo and “color” scheme evokes craft brewery and bespoke/lifestyle branding, so I imagine that Nets fandom attractive to some of Brooklyn’s finest transplant Gen Yers. Personally I’d rather die

    61. @65…thanks dj…

      i know he still does a lot of dumb things (high turnover rate) – after mitch and RJ though, seems like he has the greatest likelihood of developing in to a good pro…

      it’s just going to be another rough season watching two inexperienced ball handlers (DSJ and RJ) throw the ball all over the court next year…without point god mario (or even DAJ) initiating the offense it may not be to pretty to watch at times…

    62. I think the contract is fair for Porzingis. He’s a twenty two year all star. He had a major injury but it is one most players recover from.

    63. @63 – DS. Thanks. I stand corrected. Yeah, I hope Dallas sucks big this year. Rooting for the Texas Tank.
      @64 – Z, I’ll contemplate my visit to hell from my seat at the stadium tonight :)
      @67 – Geo, 1975 was a good time to become a Yankee fan. I became one a decade earlier. Rooting for the Yankees in 1965 was like being a Knick fan in 2019.

    64. Rooting for the Yankees in 1965 was like being a Knick fan in 2019.

      If the Knicks had won like 20 championships in the 30 years before that, sure

    65. I know a bunch of people who’s kids are Nets fans, and a bunch of guys who are Nets curious. There’s a couple who are a little more than that, the cheapness of the tickets and the convenient location of Barclays tempted them.

    66. The only Ninja GM in NY is Brian Cashman.

      All due respect to Cashman, it’s a helluva lot easier to be a GM when you don’t have a salary cap and you also have the YES network which basically prints money.

    67. There’s probably more unaffiliated NBA fans in NY than there are Knicks fans, though. I imagine if the Nets became good they’d have a large dormant base to draw from.

    68. All due respect to Cashman, it’s a helluva lot easier to be a GM when you don’t have a salary cap and you also have the YES network which basically prints money.

      That would be a fair criticism if he wasn’t working for a couple of tax dodging spoiled brats who self imposed a salary cap on their own team so they could keep as much money for themselves as possible.

    69. They have a fun team, cheap tickets and a good location. the garden is cool but it’s expensive and the team is dreary

    70. Brian Cronin
      June 25, 2019 at 4:11 pm

      If they’re the right age at the right price

      Veteran players that you would like if they are the right price are going to be making at least $10 million more than what you deem the right price.

      There has been a lot of talk based out of this point of view that signing market rate free agents means overpaying for production. In an efficient market, all these things would be true, but in a league where Chandler Parsons, Andrew Wiggins, Kristaps and plenty of others others get ridiculous contracts based on projections of only their talent and skills and ignoring their flaws and poor actual production, there are clearly inefficiencies. In a salary capped league, money going to bad players who mostly just score inefficiently at high volume means that money isn’t going towards some other players that are actually productive, and those contracts are the ones I think are worth it for this team.

    71. The only Ninja GM in NY is Brian Cashman.

      All due respect to Cashman, it’s a helluva lot easier to be a GM when you don’t have a salary cap and you also have the YES network which basically prints money.

      Cashman is a very good GM and spends his money and draft picks well. The Yankees also do have the #2 payroll in baseball and have been #2 every year since 2012 except the past two years, when they were #6 and #3. Before that they were by far #1. They spend 1.6 times the average payroll and 3.4 times the lowest payroll. It would be possible for Cashman to squander the cash, but it is naive to think he doesn’t have structural advantages over an NBA GM. This is coming from a Yankees fan.

    72. It definitely affects market value.

      I don’t really understand. It’s a fair contract for Porzingis because he should be compensated according to populist values like All-Star appearances? Is Wiggins’s contract fair because he was pretty much a consensus #1 pick five years ago? Does Melo deserve a new deal because Paul George thought he was a viable NBA starter 18 months ago?

      If the market says that a popularity contest decides contract value in a league with guaranteed contracts and a punitive soft-cap system, well — there’s your answer as to why the NBA apparently requires hard socialism to effect parity, and poorly I might add.

    73. As bad as the Jake Gibbs Yankees were, the NY Giants were so bad that an entire generation became Steelers, Cowboys, Packers and 49’ers fans.

    74. @THCJ I would say the KP contract is fairish in that it is fair market value as there is probably at least one other team that would have paid that much if KP was a free agent and they could get him with just that much cash. It is a mistake in that KP will probably not provide anywhere near that much value in terms of production. In a bad logic sunk cost fallacy way it made sense for Dallas to max KP as they had sunk all these resources into acquiring him and the only consistent course of action is to commit to his upside. They also have a decent shot at selling another front office on KP’s value, but that is a very risky thing to bank on. It is dumb but there are front offices in the league that value All Star voting. It is worked in to the bonus structure of multiple NBA contracts. These inefficiencies and others mean we can build value by paying market rate free agents if Perry is smart.

    75. We’ll all be laughing when Zion gives KP a wedgie this season. Porzingis is still more magic beans than bean stew, and I’m glad we’re not paying him.

    76. Is there a decent chance Kristaps produces enough to justify that deal? Probably-he has the skills to be a very productive player. But he also has big health risks and he hasn’t put it together yet, and some guys that are very skilled go their whole career without ever stopping doing dumb shit. There’s a lot of risk in that contract and it’s good we’re not taking it

    77. the worst winning percentage the yanks posted in the 60’s and 70’s was a .440 winning percentage (1966)…the knicks have only passed that low bar success rate six times in the last 18 years…

      since 2001 the worst season for the yanks was 51.9%…the knicks have only broke though with over 50% winning in 3 seasons since then…

      pretty sure they have the worst won/loss of any new york pro team during that time span…

      yeah, we’re the worst…

    78. In a bad logic sunk cost fallacy way it made sense for Dallas to max KP as they had sunk all these resources into acquiring him and the only consistent course of action is to commit to his upside.

      The incredible part is that this was the plan all along, since they were confident that they would not have him for a single minute last season. In that sense, it’s even worse than, say, Philly preparing to give Jimmy Butler a max salary since the acquisition cost was so high and there are now few alternative uses for that money.

      The Mavs gave up all those assets knowing full well that he’d receive max offers from other teams if he hit the open market. They knew this and did it anyway.

      It’s not a sunk-cost fallacy if they believe he’s going to outperform the contract; it would be that if they felt that they didn’t receive good value from the trade itself, but decided to pay him to justify that acquisition cost. The faith they have — the sheer opportunity cost of tying $158M in cap space to a fragile tall guy when your 19-year-old future MVP candidate isn’t close to his final form — defies my ability to comprehend.

    79. The New York Knicks and Julius Randle have mutual interest, sources tell Marc J. Spears of The Undefeated.

      From RealGM

    80. What about doing something similar to what Philly did w Reddick w Reddick. Give him 25M or even more for one year to come and help develop the team as a sniper if Philly passes on giving him a long term deal. His shooting would really loosen things up for our young guys.

    81. Redick is a guy who I would not want even just on a 1 year. I don’t believe any potential spacing he could give would be worth the opportunity cost of the contract/ minutes, unless you are somehow getting him at an impossible discount. I think you bring in someone who can run the offense or an elite defensive leader to keep intensity and focus up on that end. I don’t think Redick is good enough to be worth it to this team, guys who shoot do not come cheap.

    82. Better to lose with our young guys and with future draft picks. it give us hope. better than cheering for the likes of Starbury, Melo, Al Harington, et al with no future out look to lead us for the 8th seed.
      Durant plus 1 is a pipe dream. Still hoping that KD will do it. If not let it grow. Doing nothing but getting picks playing with our youngs etc will soon result to winning.

    83. Vegas has the Nets as heavy favorites for Durant now.

      What is with this DeAndre Jordan rumor? How the heck can they max Durant and Irving and sign him? And how the hell could that end up happening in NY but not for us?

      And! Biggest question here: how the fuck does Kyrie Irving hold so much god damn sway? If Durant wants to play for the Knicks and Jordan is willing to play on some mid level deal, why wouldn’t Durant be like “you follow me, I’m not following you”?

    84. Is there a decent chance Kristaps produces enough to justify that deal? Probably-he has the skills to be a very productive player. But he also has big health risks and he hasn’t put it together yet, and some guys that are very skilled go their whole career without ever stopping doing dumb shit. There’s a lot of risk in that contract and it’s good we’re not taking it

      Yes, there’s a decent chance. Doncic will be a Harden-style PG and he will create opportunities for KP to be more efficient. Whether KP capitalizes is a completely different thing.

      Someone said after the Durant injury that he should have been relegated to spot-up shooting for at least his minutes in that game, which seems a perfectly reasonable thing to wish for — and a tall order to ask of a guy: “Change your game now.” It’s just hard to imagine these guys, after years of habit, suddenly learning to make better situational choices in the flow of the game. I don’t know if KP’s capable of that.

      The risk is enormous for the Mavs and I completely agree with your gladness that we don’t have to have it on our Knicks.

    85. I mean, for all we know, maybe KD is driving the bus. Brooklyn does have better basketball infrastructure and a better roster.

    86. I personally would have been okay with maxing KP, mainly because I felt that his “unicornness” would make him retain enough value to get back fair return for him, even at max money. Even if his WS48 stagnates in the mid .100’s a la Melo, just like with Melo, there will always be a team thinking that they could turn him into a legit max player. And I think there’s a non-negligible chance that he becomes a legit star in his mid-late 20’s. The x-factor for me is the “anemia” or whatever seems to sap his energy from December onwards. I think what we saw in that 30-pt streak was for real….but not sure he can sustain that intensity over a long season and playoffs.

      Whatever, we got a fair return for him given what is known…especially now that we don’t have to worry that the second pick will revert to second-rounders. I wish I liked DSJ more, and that we didn’t sign TH2 and Lee to stupid deals that had negative trade value. And not cashing in on the 2019 FA studs will be a bitter pill. But whatever, At least he’s out of the conference and we won’t have to face him 4 times a year or in a playoff series. And should he turn into a Eunuchorn, it will be nice to be on the winning end of a blockbuster deal for a change.

    87. I have it on very good authority that KP was banging his brains out for his entire Knicks tenure. In the words of the late, great Mickey Goldman, “Women weaken legs!”

    88. The New York Knicks and Julius Randle have mutual interest, sources tell Marc J. Spears of The Undefeated.

      A Randle signing would fly in the face of everything Mills and Perry have publicly said that they’ll do this offseason, so it’ll be fascinating to see what happens (or perhaps someone should have checked to see whether their “A-List” for free agents was, like, 40 players long).

    89. Signing Randle would be almost like signing Greg Monroe back when he was a FA. Remember how Milwaukee swept him up at midnight and broke some hearts here? (not mine!) How did that work out for them?

      Stupid is as stupid does…

    90. I just saw an article saying that Melo and Vincanity could join the Knicks. At first I just laughed.
      Then I had a wacko thought. Why wouldn’t we pay these dude on 1 year deals…..
      PG Jose Calderon
      SG Jamal Crawford
      SF Carmelo Anthony
      PF Channing Frye
      C Tyson Chandler

    91. I just saw an article saying that Melo and Vincanity could join the Knicks.

      I like The Onion too!

    92. With Randle, he’s young and good. Does he become all-star caliber? I don’t think so. He’ll be overpaid by someone. I love him but not at max.

    93. @BJ It would be fun and good for the tank and some great mentors for the kids.
      And they are all old enough to be fathers to most of the kids :)

    94. I have completely come around to signing Randle. He is an elite scorer and a very good rebounder and passer. His defense might not be very good but with Robinson at the 5 we have almost the perfect situation to maximize Randle’s strengths and minimize his weaknesses. I think his three-point shooting is promising and could be a plus in a year or two. He is 24 and fits with our timeline perfectly. 25 pts, 10 rebs, 3 asts, and 60% TS% are pretty amazing numbers.

      The caveat is he needs to be in conjunction with at least one other good long term signing and anything more than 4 years 80 million would be a gross overpay and I’d feel a lot better with a contract closer to 4 years 60 million. If he is the 2nd best player we sign I am happy if he is the best or only player then we did poorly.

    95. There is nothing in that article that resembles support for these propositions. It’s pure speculative BS.

    96. To me, Randle is fool’s gold. I don’t think the 3-pt shooting is for real, he’s a terrible defender and he turns the ball over just as much as he gets assists. Let someone else bet on whether his 3-pt shooting is legit. At the money he’ll cost I’d rather spend a bit more for Vucevic, who is a sure thing to be the very good offensive player that he is (and a much better rebounder and passer. I really don’t want him either, but whatever.

    97. I’m very lukewarm at Randle. I like him, I think he’s very good, but he doesn’t seem to be a guy who can be the second best player on a very good team, let alone the best, and there’s no way we’re signing him for less than “second best player on a good team” money as so many teams have cap space and he’ll surely be overpaid. There’s also risk he won’t keep up his numbers at this level, so yeah… if he came with a healthy Durant or Kawhi I wouldn’t hate it at all, but that’s very unlikely to happen.

    98. The thing with Kristaps is I don’t think he was going to hit those numbers on the Knicks because we clearly either didn’t know how to use him or couldn’t get him to play the right way. I’d hoped he could have played for us this season to see if a different coach could get through to him (although after the season we had I very much doubt Fizdale was that guy) before we had to decide whether or not to make him an offer.

    99. @Z-man – True, but it did trigger my hair-brained geriatric free agent signing spree revelation. Yes, worthy of the Onion.

    100. i think randle is a pretty reasonable signing…. not for anything close to max and i dont think he’s getting anywhere near that… but he’s a young guy who’s shown something…

      i don’t think his 3pt shooting needs to be real in order for it to be worth it….. the guy is a banger and he’s pretty decent down low and he also passes well… that’s another non-pg position passer…..

      the downside is that he’s terrible on defense…. but again…. you kind of have to get over the perfect player syndrome if you want to do anything in this league and you don’t have A-list FA’s begging to be on your team….. why can’t randle be a zach randolph in memphis type? he might be zach randolph on the knicks… but for a reasonable amount of money i don’t think it’s too much risk to find out….

      i think there’s this mentality that great young players grow on trees or something…. and yea maybe rolling over cap space is fine but if you look at FA’s next year… i don’t think there’s anybody even better than randle worth getting….

      so depending on the money… randle is a decent target… i mean is going after ppl who clearly belong in the nba and about to enter their prime such a terrible thing?

    101. If the Nets land KD and Kyrie, good for them. Keep the rebuild alive!

      I hear you. KD is risky and Kyrie is a knucklehead.

      But man, if the Knicks spent a whole year making moves trying to get those guys and they come to NY but not here, holy shit is that bad. Not just to come to NY’s irrelevant B team, but to come to a team that was in utter shambles as recently as 12 months ago? I mean, even if we are lucky to avoid those two, isn’t it kinda the death knell for us, perception wise?

      And what are the odds that Dolan is going to be ok with a slow rebuild while Durant and Kyrie are in Brooklyn?

    102. To be honest, we could do a lot worse than VC on a vets minimum deal. Seems like he is generally happy to go to a non-contender as long as he is getting some minutes. I know it counts for little here, but could be a solid veteran presence for the young guards. Had an okay year in Atlanta too.

    103. I think Randle is getting close to the max. There’s a lot of marginal teams that will have cap space, like Sacramento, Indiana, Chicago, Clippers, Dallas… someone will end up throwing a big offer at Randle, maybe even New Orleans if they think he can play alongside Zion. I can easily see him getting a 20 million per year offer, and then I think it’s too much. If it was something like a 3 year 40-45 million contract I would probably be ok with it, but I just don’t see the point in doing it unless we’re trying to compete right now.

    104. Surely Randle will have value as a trade chip if we can pump his numbers? I doubt that’s the intention here, but he does make a certain kind of sense from that perspective. If he has a market now, he’ll have a market as a trade piece.

    105. All the agents for these free agent players always throw NYK out there when they have cap space because it helps grease the wheels of other teams. It’s like a tradition now to sow these false Knick rumors. None of that Randle stuff is real.

    106. I’d love to have Julius Randle on the Knicks. He’s a good and young player, though flawed, and if he’s willing to take a 1 year deal I don’t really care what salary he’s making. Of course at a multi year commitment like the one we gave TH2 then it’s a no.

      Did anyone here know RJ Barrett speaks French? Maybe he and Frank Ntilikina can build a bond and harass offenses together. I’d love if Frank could help RJ out on the defensive side.

    107. Did anyone here know RJ Barrett speaks French? Maybe he and Frank Ntilikina can build a bond and harass offenses together. I’d love if Frank could help RJ out on the defensive side.

      Mudiay speaks French as well for what its worth :)

    108. Yeah, Noah did too and that didn’t seem to help much.

      Randle is in a weird spot because we really don’t know how his value is perceived around the league right now, we don’t know if the Pelicans wanted to trade him and couldn’t or simply didn’t want to. I think a 1 year deal is the worst case scenario, as it provides literally zero upside for us, but something like a 2+1 deal could work if the numbers are reasonable.

    109. After the injury, it just makes a lot more sense for Durant to join the Nets with Irving instead of the Knicks. I think Durant was 99% here before he was injured, but now that he’s going to miss a full season, the appeal of going to an already good team with Irving has got to be extremely compelling to him. The Nets can make the playoffs with just Irving and without Durant even on the team, ya know? While he has to know that it is a hard sell to get another max guy to come to the Knicks without him playing this season.

    110. In a way, Julius Randle is a good fit for this team because it is sorely lacking people who have the ability to throw the ball into the basket. Randle has had two straight seasons of good, solid, high-efficiency scoring on pretty high volume. So if the goal is to start winning more games, he probably helps achieve that.

      I’m still a “no” on Randle because I think this team should still be tanking, uh, I mean rebuilding. But, you know, if you want to send out a 30-something win team next year, Randle is a good piece to achieve that end.

    111. I’m actively a fan of Randle, I just don’t see how he fits into any of the Knicks’ stated goals for next season. He’s not an A-List free agent and he won’t sign for a single season, so….huh?

    112. Is Chris Paul done or was he just randomly bad last year? Would a trade to an offense that he could run unlock enough value to fight his age related decline and injury risk? Do the Rockets consider Paul a negative asset or do they think he has trade value? Trying to figure out what the reported Paul deal was that the FO turned down… He is not a guy we could build around at this point in his career, but at the right deal he could be value depending on what the rockets give up. Probably won’t happen though as even though the rockets are incentivized to sell future assets for current wins, they probably still see Paul as a positive.

    113. Of course at a multi year commitment like the one we gave TH2 then it’s a no.

      Then it’s a no. He’s getting that kind of deal for sure (maybe without the stupid trade kicker, but whatever…)

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