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Monday, July 16, 2018

Knicks Morning News (2018.04.22)

  • [NYPost] David Blatt wants redemption after LeBron James fiasco
    (Saturday, April 21, 2018 1:32:24 PM)

    The unseemly details of former Cavaliers coach David Blatt’s sour relationship with LeBron James in Cleveland were spelled out in a recent book, “Return of The King.’’ In an interview published Saturday in the Israeli newspaper, Haaretz, and translated from Hebrew, Blatt declined to talk about the book by Brian Windhorst and Dave McMenamin, but…

  • [SNY Knicks] David Lee thinks Mark Jackson is right for the Knicks
    (Saturday, April 21, 2018 9:40:23 AM)

    Former Knicks forward David Lee believes Mark Jackson is the right person to be the Knicks next head coach.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks expected to meet with David Blatt in Europe next week
    (Saturday, April 21, 2018 11:48:16 PM)

    The Knicks’ head coaching search will take them overseas.

  • [ESPN] Sources: Hornets to meet Messina, Fizdale
    (Saturday, April 21, 2018 4:23:05 PM)

    Spurs assistant Ettore Messina and former Grizzlies coach David Fizdale will interview for the Hornets job, league sources told ESPN.

  • [NYTimes] 76ers Top Heat to Take a 3-1 Series Lead
    (Sunday, April 22, 2018 4:37:44 AM)

    Ben Simmons had a triple-double as Philadelphia moved a victory away from the second round. Also, Minnesota got its first postseason win in 14 years, and New Orleans eliminated Portland.

  • 138 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2018.04.22)

    1. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      Mitchell is good, but nowhere near Simmons. Simmons is really special. My hope is that in 2 years Frank doesn’t make me regret passing on Mitchell.

      I don’t get too irritated about it, though, because while I would have been OK with Mitchell, I would have been really unhappy with DSJr and Monk, and they were all on the table. All things considered, I think we did OK.

      Not trading for Rubio…I know a few posters were against it (‘he can’t shoot!’), but it is good to see once again that they are being proven idiots.

    2. Henry George

      I trust in Perry’s poker skills to get Budenholzer (if he’s the guy they want) without any significant compensation. Merely waiting for Hawks management to fire their unwanted coach will probably do the trick.

      I’d define low enough compensation as rights to an overseas player project, an end-of-the-bench player (like Hicks or Mudiay), or a vet min (Beasley or Jack).

      No draft picks, please. This iteration of Knicks management generates too much value finding, scouting and drafting players to give away picks.

    3. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Frank Ntilikina probably won’t be as good as Donovan Mitchell ever. However, there is a good chance Ntilikina’s production to the contract I expect him to sign after his rookie deal should be a better value contract than the max deal you’re going to have to give Donovan Mitchell. If Frank Ntilikina really does develop into the best perimeter defender in the NBA and puts up something like 13/5/7 per 36 with good efficiency splits, I’d expect him to sign a contract closer to what Tim Hardaway got and Mitchell to get the Wiggins max.

      Would you rather have a guard who averages 25, 4, and 4 per 36 with slightly above average efficiency on a max deal or a perennial DPOY candidate with better passing and rebounding numbers (the book is still out on his scoring efficiency) at under half that max salary?

      Of course I’m looking at things through Knicks’ colored glasses, but I think it’s a pretty interesting argument. If Frank becomes the defensive nightmare (and I mean generationally great game wrecking defender) we believe he’s on pace to become and gets his TS% up in the mid 500s, there’s a very good chance his contract extension gets you more value over the long term than the Mitchell Max.

    4. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      I think the Knicks are looking to sign David Fizdale/Jerry Stackhouse and give him Mike Woodson and Kenny Smith as his lead assistants. I like that plan.

    5. Z-man

      Mitchell looks like a multi-year all-star, possible scoring champion and possible HOFer. Simmons looks like a sure HOFer and possible all-time great.

      Ntilikina? sigh…let’s hope for TGHR’s rosy assessment.

    6. Henry George

      At this point, I’m seeing Frank becoming a 15/5/7 2-way floor general at the 1/2/3 whose leadership makes everybody better at both ends. He exhibited signs of that this season.

      You win championships with guys like that. If he can stay healthy and remain a Knick, he will lead them in a manner not unlike how Ewing had 20 something years ago.

    7. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Bridges will take us to the promised land"

      Guys like Simmons are a little tricky for me to value.

      He’s more of a point forward than point guard.

      As a bigger guy, he’s going to attack the boards and get more rebounds than the typical PG, but since he’s a very good ball handler and passer he has the ball all the time. That means he’s going to get way more assists than the typical forward. So naturally, he looks great statistically because he’s doing 1 extra thing than either the typical F or PG. (I’m purposely leaving out the scoring and defense because you can do those things from any position)

      However, since he IS doing 1 extra thing, that means there’s going to be another player on the court that’s either doing less than he’s capable of doing or less than a player at that position usually does.

      Think of it like this.

      When Frank is playing PG, he handles the ball a lot and gets X assists per 36. If Burke plays PG and Frank plays SG, some of Frank’s play making shifts to Burke. If we played Simmons with Frank, the same thing would happen.

      The play making isn’t 1 +1 = 2.

      There’s some diminishing return.

      Unless Frank does something else at SG better than he normally does it at PG, some of his “value to the team” simply shifts away to another player.

      That’s sort of what might be happening with Simmons playing PG.

      For example, if you played Simmons with Fultz, either Fultz’s assists (and statistical value) will go down or if they split the ball handling both their values will go down a little.

      I guess what I would like to know is how much better the 76ers play making is with Simmons handling the ball than it would be with Fultz handling the ball in a more traditional lineup. That’s his real value. I don’t necessarily want to know how much Simmons is personally accruing because he’s versatile enough to do more.

    8. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Bridges will take us to the promised land"

      As applied to the Knicks, if Frank is going to be the PG of the future, that’s fine. If we are going to play him off the ball, he’s going to have to try to do more of something else at SG than he can do at PG to have as much value because his assists are going to go down.

    9. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      I think looking at Frank as a shooting guard is outdated. He’s more of a 2013 Jason Kidd type shooting guard than he is a Klay Thompson type or a James Harden type. The thing about shooting guard is it is historically the least valuable position on the court. Having a guy play the two who can operate as an off-point guard on offense and then shut down the opposing team’s best guard is a pretty useful player to have. You don’t need a guy to average double digit assists to have the best passing team in the NBA. Russell Westbrook led the NBA in assists per game but the Thunder rank 28th in total assists. The Warriors had the most assists this year with Draymond Green leading the way at 7.3 a night. Having smart, team oriented guys helps a team even if their individual numbers aren’t as strong as some other guys who have to shoulder more responsibility.

    10. ess-dog

      It’s true the relative price you have to pay for Mitchell will be rough because he hasn’t proven to be a real all-star yet, just a volume scorer. He has the athleticism to be a star, but he could also be Devin Booker, but as a better defender.

      Everything with Frank’s value depends upon his three-point shot. if he can shoot 39%+ at good volume, you can play him 1 – 3 on defense (he will bulk up) and he will lock down great perimeter players. If he can be a starting point guard… even better!

      But if he’s “just” a good-shooting wing that plays terrific defense and passes really well, that’s a pretty valuable thing. Of course, becoming a top outside shooter isn’t just a given. Worst case scenario is that he becomes more of a utility bench guy that you bring in for defense – a nice piece to have, but not what you want out of the 8th pick.

      But, hey, if you run an improved shooting Frank out with Burke, Mikal, healthy KP and a rebounding/defending PF/C, that’s a great, modern lineup.

    11. Bruno Almeida

      I think Mitchell now is like having a star designated hitter. There will be days where he hits everything and wins you the game and days you’re not really able to rely on him because most of what he does is score.

      It works so well in Utah because they have every other complementary tool possible in Rubio, Gobert, Ingles and Favors, to provide defense, passing, outside shooting and rebounding. In that case, if he’s just Devin Booker is not a problem, he doesn’t really need to be more than an explosive scorer.

    12. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      All the +/- stats already have Mitchell as a plus defender. Of course it’s easier to be one when you have Gobert at center, but he’s already far better than Devin Booker ever was or likely ever will be. I’d take him 5th in a redraft. (Top 4 being Ball, Tatum, Bell, Fultz). I still have some worries about his game and how it’s pretty much predicated on volume scoring, but I figure it’ll round out in the next couple years.

      We shouldn’t despair though, Frank can still become a great player no matter what Donovan Mitchell does. I wouldn’t worry about it.

    13. Z-man

      I get the concern about Mitchell’s salary, but it’s a joke to be worried about him as a player. He’s having an historic rookie campaign, and it can’t be cheapened by crediting his situation. And the only reason that he doesn’t go first in a redraft is that he doesn’t have the highest ceiling, but he surely has the highest floor. There’s not a single major concern about his game, while every other draftee has a major gap to fill.

    14. Cock Jowles, a Real Value Contract at .502 TS% and $26.2M

      Mitchell looks like a superstar in the making, but so did Tyreke Evans. Could end up on the same trajectory. His splits show improvement over the course of the year, but I’m about as invested in monthly trends as indicative of actual change as I am the “rookie wall,” aka regression to the mean.

      I’d take any of Mr. Johnson’s four and then I’d also take the high-efficiency rebounding centers over him, as well, since Porzingis is probably going to be a super-stretch 4 long-term.

      Hey, we knew the Celtics’ offense was bad without Kyrie, but… this bad?

    15. Z-man

      Ant to worry that he’s a volume scorer is dismissive to how critical that role is in today’s NBA. He’s not Curry or Harden yet and may never be, but he’s a super-dynamic offensive player.

    16. Cock Jowles, a Real Value Contract at .502 TS% and $26.2M

      He’s having an historic rookie campaign, and it can’t be cheapened by crediting his situation.

      You can only strengthen it by saying that Gobert is useless on offense and it makes Mitchell take higher-difficult shots. Total nonsense, but you could go that route.

      Serious question: how is it historic?

      And the only reason that he doesn’t go first in a redraft is that he doesn’t have the highest ceiling, but he surely has the highest floor. There’s not a single major concern about his game, while every other draftee has a major gap to fill.

      I’m not concerned about any rookie, really. Bennett was historically bad in his rookie year, but I wouldn’t have advocated trading him after it unless it were for a serious value player. (They should never have drafted him, but once you make the pick, the value plummets.)

    17. kevin5318

      I’m still high on Isaac. I might take him over Bell and Fultz if he never learns to shoot properly again.

    18. Cock Jowles, a Real Value Contract at .502 TS% and $26.2M

      I’m still high on Isaac. I might take him over Bell and Fultz if he never learns to shoot properly again.

      Isaac 87 ORtg, 104 DRtg

      Bell 121 ORtg, 103 DRtg

      I would love to be dealing with you as a GM.

    19. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Yeah, I would love a high efficiency rebounder at center who can occasionally shoot the 3 on this team to complement Porzingis. Someone like Willy Hernangomez would be perfect for the Knicks

    20. kevin5318

      He’s also a full 3 years younger and a twig right now. Also doesn’t play on the one of the greatest teams in history.

    21. Bruno Almeida

      When I compared Mitchell to a DH it was more in the sense of what role he plays. He certainly is a more advanced defender than Booker at the same age but it always gets hard for me to evaluate individual defense when the player has so many plus defenders around him, specially the best defender in the league in Gobert. The idea was to say that they don’t rely on him for defending or for anything else really other than scoring, so that’s what he does and does very well.

      It’s entirely possible that he could eventually become a much more complete player as he certainly has the talent, but in the sense of projecting a ceiling I agree with Silky that there are other players in the same draft I would take over him. As with rookies, specially the ones that are already so advanced in terms of development, it’s hard to project just how much better he can really become.

    22. JK47

      When Frank is playing PG, he handles the ball a lot and gets X assists per 36. If Burke plays PG and Frank plays SG, some of Frank’s play making shifts to Burke. If we played Simmons with Frank, the same thing would happen.

      The play making isn’t 1 +1 = 2.

      There’s some diminishing return.

      This is the same sort of argument that was used by some (not you) to say that Chris Paul + James Harden was going to bring diminishing returns. That argument turned out to be wrong. The Rockets were practically unbeatable in the regular season when both of those guys played.

    23. ptmilo

      I would probably take 1. Lonzo, 2. Mitchell, 3. Tatum but it would a toss up between 2 and 3. Fultz could still be really good but it’s pretty hard to handicap. I thought I liked Bell a lot before reading this thread but he’ll be 24 next year no way am I taking him over Mitchell.

    24. kevin5318

      You basically need 2 elite playmakers to compete for Championship nowadays.

      Spurs had Parker/Ginobili, Heat had Lebron/Wade, Cavs had Lebron/Kyrie and GSW had Draymond/Curry.

    25. Cock Jowles, a Real Value Contract at .502 TS% and $26.2M

      Bell at $1M a year through age 26 is pretty dang good. First extension will be through age 30. Hard to beat that value. You have to hope Mitchell gives surplus value at the max, because he’s looking like a lock for a big RFA contract.

    26. ptmilo

      Bell at $1M a year through age 26 is pretty dang good.

      Bell signed a two year deal so he’s a RFA after next year.

    27. ptmilo

      the other thing about bell is that if you look at the per 36 for West Pachulia Looney and even Javale, there’s a pretty noticeable statistical tailwind from playing one of those spots for these Dubs. Not to demean Bell, I thought it was crazy when Chicago sold him and he’s looked really nice as a rookie, but between Bell and Mitchell or Tatum I don’t think it’s even close right now.

    28. vincoug

      Wow, some crazy numbers in this thread regarding expectations for Ntilikina. Literally, in the last 40 years only 20 players have averaged 13/5/7 and they did it 64 times during that span: list. And most of those times were by Magic, Kidd, and Lebron. If you bump it up to 15/5/7 it drops to 17 players doing it 55 times. Most of the list are guys either in the HOF or going to be in the HOF (and some guy named Fat Lever shows up 4 times. Who the hell is Fat Lever?). Maybe we should take a more wait-and-see approach before expecting Ntilikina to become one of the greatest players of all time?

    29. Cock Jowles, a Real Value Contract at .502 TS% and $26.2M

      I’m bullish on Mitchell, but that article mostly fawns over his usage and compares him favorably to the worst MVP award-winner since Iverson. I can say that I’d love to have him on the Knicks, but the guy shot worse than league-average. I don’t care what his usage is or what his crunch-time volume comes out to be.

    30. Owen

      Leave Frank alone. The kid will be alright.

      Kind of disquieting to hear David Lee recommend Mark Jackson. Makes me feel I might be wrong about the latter. Or more likely that my undying love and devotion for DLee has been misplaced all these years.

    31. Bruno Almeida

      Well, weren’t there rumours about LeBron wanting Jackson too? It would not be the first entry on the list of good basketball players that may actually know a lot less than we expect of them about the game.

    32. Z-man

      Oh agreed, but there’s no disputing that his rookie season was a home run by nearly any measure. If you want to be an efficiency purist, whatever.

    33. JK47

      Fat Lever was sort of like the Russell Westbrook of his day, a boxscore-stuffing guard who got loads of rebounds and assists. We’d all be turning cartwheels if Ntilikina turned out to be anywhere near as good as Fat.

    34. kevin5318

      Didn’t Keer replace Lee with Draymond when he first got the job. I’d probably support the guys giving me minutes too.

    35. vincoug

      Fat Lever was sort of like the Russell Westbrook of his day, a boxscore-stuffing guard who got loads of rebounds and assists. We’d all be turning cartwheels if Ntilikina turned out to be anywhere near as good as Fat.

      Yeah, looking at his stats he had a pretty nice career and I’d be pretty happy if that’s what Ntilikina turned into. Just surprised that I’ve never heard of him.

    36. Bruno Almeida

      I just want Manu Ginobili to play until he’s like 50 or something. What a fantastic player.

    37. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      Didn’t Keer replace Lee with Draymond when he first got the job. I’d probably support the guys giving me minutes too.

      I remember that; and, aside from personality, do we really want a coach that plays Lee over Greene?

    38. DRed

      As a bigger guy, he’s going to attack the boards and get more rebounds than the typical PG, but since he’s a very good ball handler and passer he has the ball all the time. That means he’s going to get way more assists than the typical forward. So naturally, he looks great statistically because he’s doing 1 extra thing than either the typical F or PG. (I’m purposely leaving out the scoring and defense because you can do those things from any position)

      However, since he IS doing 1 extra thing, that means there’s going to be another player on the court that’s either doing less than he’s capable of doing or less than a player at that position usually does.

      Think of it like this.

      When Frank is playing PG, he handles the ball a lot and gets X assists per 36. If Burke plays PG and Frank plays SG, some of Frank’s play making shifts to Burke. If we played Simmons with Frank, the same thing would happen.

      The play making isn’t 1 +1 = 2.

      There’s some diminishing return.

      The thing about what Simmons is doing that makes you wrong is that he’s already an elite point guard in terms of generating assists. Simmons isn’t a forward who can pass, like Draymond, he’s an enormous point guard like Magic Johnson. He looks great-as a point guard-even if you don’t look at things like rebounds and blocks. His assist numbers would certainly go down a bit if Philly had another good point guard on the roster (CP3 and Harden both lost about 2 assists per 36 from last season to this one, which seems like a good crude approximation of what happens), but a lot of what makes Simmons so good is he’s better than most point guards at doing point guard stuff.

    39. Owen

      I just want Manu Ginobili to play until he’s like 50 or something. What a fantastic player

      Amen. Manu is my favorite player ever.

      If he retires let’s let him coach the Knicks.

    40. dtrickey

      IIRC Lee lost his spot to Draymond after he got injured. I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure Draymond really came into his own while Lee was out and Lee couldn’t ultimately win back his position. No doubt Lee’s defence was a factor as well.

    41. Brian Cronin

      Lee’s thing sounded more like him being locked in with Jackson as the guys who don’t get credit because of how good the team played after them, which is weird, considering that Lee won a title there.

    42. DRed

      dtrickey I think you’re right. I am pretty sure Kerr has said he planned to start the season bringing Draymond off the bench.

      Warriors fans (at least the internet ones) seem to have a pretty hard time forgiving Lee for being overpaid which is odd because he really helped out in that game 4 they really needed to win in the finals.

    43. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Bridges will take us to the promised land"

      This is the same sort of argument that was used by some (not you) to say that Chris Paul + James Harden was going to bring diminishing returns. That argument turned out to be wrong. The Rockets were practically unbeatable in the regular season when both of those guys played.

      I understand what you are saying, but I think about it differently.

      When you say there are going to be diminishing returns, that does mean you are saying the combination will not work or make the team better. You are saying individual players will do a little less of some of the things they did before.

      Let’s say we value players on a scale of 1-10 and we call both Harden and Paul a 10.

      Now let’s say Harden was playing with a 7 previously. His backcourt last year was a 10+ 7 = 17.

      Now Houston switches to Paul who is a 10.

      The question is will you get 10 + 10 = 20 even though they both handle the ball and get a lot of assists?

      The reality is both of them have fewer assists per 36 this year than they had last year. So in the area that overlapped, both did a bit less. However, even though Houston didn’t get 10 + 10 = 20, maybe they got 9.75 + 9.75 = 19.50 and improved their backcourt and team a lot.

      This is the team building aspect of the game. You can only fit so much scoring, rebounding, play making, and other skills on the court at one time. The idea is to put together a team of individuals with different skills that maximizes the amount of each skill you can get on the court.

    44. Henry George

      At this point, I’m seeing Frank becoming a 15/5/7 2-way floor general at the 1/2/3 whose leadership makes everybody better at both ends.

      I stand by my quote, even if his peak stats might differ slightly from 15/5/7 (I did meant to say per 36, but forgot).
      This kid’s desire and capacity to learn is special enough such that he’s going to become a legit floor general at both ends by sometime next season (and as a 20 year old, no less!).

    45. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Bridges will take us to the promised land"

      Personally, “I” find valuing “point forwards” interesting (guys like Bird, James, Draymond Green, Simmons and even Magic). They are bigger guys. So they rebound well. But since they are also good play makers, they get a lot of assists. That makes them look amazing statistically (especially if they also score well). But if you are team building, you would probably not put them on the same team as Stockton, Nash, or some other elite play making PG. You are already getting the play making from them, so you would probably be better off putting them with some elite scoring small man that can defend the better PGs in the league. You won’t have to worry much about whether that guy is a great play maker or not like you would ordinarily if you were using a traditional PG.

      But how do you value that?

      The stats are going to say your PG is not very good because all he does is score. They are also going to say your point forward is god like because he rebounds, make plays, and piles up triple doubles. But that arrangement might be a better combination than the same point forward with a traditional pass first PG that the stats will like a lot better going in.

      I mean, I think Draymond Green is a GREAT player to team with Curry.

      Who wants Curry getting 10 assists a night when he’s one of the greatest scorers in the history of the NBA?

      I want him shooting!

      To me, that Curry/Green combination has great value because Green can do a lot of the play making. But if you stuck Green on a team with great play making PG, his assists would go down and he’d look a little less valuable.

    46. DRed

      I get what you’re saying with respect to point forwards, but Simmons wasn’t a forward. He’s a guard who is enormously big. The sixers most common lineup was Embiid at center, Saric and Covington in the frontcourt, and Reddick and Simmons in the backcourt. Simmons wasn’t taking assists from the point guard. He is the point guard.

      I understand he certainly could play forward, if you had a traditional shorter point guard on the court who also did some of the ballhandling/offense initiating (like the Cavs with Kyrie and Lebron), but the Sixers generally did not.

    47. Bruno Almeida

      Yeah, there’s a huge difference between Draymond, Giannis or even LeBron and Simmons. Simmons is just a PG who happens to be 6’10”.

      The only issue of pairing him with a CP3 type is that well, he still can’t really shoot, but I’m pretty sure the guy is just so talented it would work out.

    48. djphan

      you absolutely can pair any point forward with another playmaker…. that’s basically what gs does with green and curry…. harden/paul… lebron/kyrie or just about any team he’s been on….. pippen/jordan….

      you can never ever ever have enough ‘playmakers’….. passing /creating shots… is the league’s most scarce skill… and getting that in the frontcourt is a huge boon to any offense no matter the makeup of the rest of your team….

    49. ptmilo

      Berman’s article tonight seems to imply Atlanta wouldn’t require draft pick compensation for Bud

    50. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      I think having Mike Budenholzer coach the Knicks would be so beautiful. I think he’d single handedly run Kanter out of town and Tim Hardaway Jr would probably remember how to play defense again.

    51. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      Only the Pelicans made it out of the first playoff round unbeaten. I did not expect that outcome. Although I am not surprised that San Antonio found a way to win at least one game against Golden state.

    52. Frank

      I know I’m in the relative minority on this but I would gladly give up second round pick(s) for Budenholzer. Yes it is possible you could get a similar coach for “free”, but you pay for that “free” with uncertainty. Could Stackhouse be as good? sure, but maybe not, and then you’ve wasted another few years. Can Fizdale get along with KP? Sure, but maybe not, and then you’ve wasted another few years.
      Could that 2nd round pick turn into Jokic? Sure, but it’s extremely unlikely.

      What you get with Budenholzer is a guy who is known to be an elite defensive coach and runs the east coast version of the Spurs’ development program. Bazemore, THJ, Demarre Carroll, Mike Scott, Muscala all were afterthoughts before entering Hawks U, and all of them are now real contributors. Even Paul Millsap became an elite defender under Budenholzer, and changed his shot profile to become much more of an outside threat.

      Draft picks are great, but so is certainty.

    53. alsep73

      If, as the Berman story claims, the Knicks are really Bud’s top choice, AND the Hawks just want to save money and won’t need a draft pick, I think you shut down the rest of the search after the first round of interviews and hire this guy. He’d probably cost us some ping pong balls next year, even factoring in Porzingis’ injury, but he’s the talent development guy, the defensive guru, and culture change guy we’ve all been waiting for forever. Go get him.

    54. Frank

      yeah obviously I’d rather give up Dolan dollars for Budenholzer (although in a way they are much the same thing, since like everyone likes to say, you can buy 2nd round picks). But I wouldn’t shy away from giving up a 2nd for him.

    55. Hubert

      Phil made me forget that we can use cash for other things besides paying the 2010 Bulls.

      That’s a great line.

      I guess Atlanta just wants to fire Bud so helping them save $13mm is enough compensation for them. We should be able to get this done with money or a nominal 2nd round pick. As much as I value 2nd round picks, I would happily give one of the Willy picks up for Bud.

    56. Hubert

      And if Budenholzer actually wants to coach here, I think that says something positive about Scott Perry.

    57. Brian Cronin

      If, as the Berman story claims, the Knicks are really Bud’s top choice, AND the Hawks just want to save money and won’t need a draft pick, I think you shut down the rest of the search after the first round of interviews and hire this guy. He’d probably cost us some ping pong balls next year, even factoring in Porzingis’ injury, but he’s the talent development guy, the defensive guru, and culture change guy we’ve all been waiting for forever. Go get him.

      I generally agree, in that he is head and shoulders above the other candidates. It’d just be a question of the compensation. I’d be fine giving up two seconds for him even (like the Magic did for Stan Van Gundy), but no firsts. I don’t see how they don’t ask for a first, though. He’s a highly in-demand coach. Any notion of “They just want to get out of his contract” is silly – the Celtics also wanted out from Doc’s contract and they still got a first for him. If you have an in-demand asset under contract, you don’t give him away to get out from paying him. It’s just illogical.

      Although, it also seems odd that Budz would leave a team that plans on tanking in 2018-19 for a team that…plans on tanking in 2018-19 (unless the Knicks are dumber than we even imagine and will try to make the playoffs somehow in 2018-19).

    58. d-mar

      Can good things actually happen for Knicks fans? Getting Budenholzer would be such a positive step, an indication that maybe we really are in a new era of sane management and no more “name” chasing.

      But until the deal is done, the spectres of Mark Jackson and Kenny Smith loom on the horizon.

    59. alsep73

      Although, it also seems odd that Budz would leave a team that plans on tanking in 2018-19 for a team that…plans on tanking in 2018-19 (unless the Knicks are dumber than we even imagine and will try to make the playoffs somehow in 2018-19).

      I think we probably have to split hairs and look at it as a choice between two rebuilding paths:

      1. The Hawks will be trying The Process, and may spend many seasons trying to tank.

      2. The Knicks are probably (hopefully?) going to tank this next season, but they want to be active in free agency next summer, at which point KP will hopefully be healthy and surrounded by a more developed Frank, this year’s lottery pick, next year’s lottery pick, TH2 (a player Budz has worked very well with), and whatever free agents Perry signs. Budz would be coming in at the end of the really painful rebuilding stuff, which would be more palatable than coaching a team that’s just trying to collect assets for four years down the line.

    60. alsep73

      But until the deal is done, the spectres of Mark Jackson and Kenny Smith loom on the horizon.

      Oh, I’m assuming the worst until otherwise proven wrong. It’s the only way to survive Knicks fandom at this point.

    61. MSA

      Although, it also seems odd that Budz would leave a team that plans on tanking in 2018-19 for a team that…plans on tanking in 2018-19

      Maybe he just see KP, Frank and this year 1st as better prospects than whatever the Hawks has to offer in the near future.

    62. mase

      Borrego is another choice, worked under pop since he was 26, left to Orlando ad currently pops assistant. I like him, he’s 40 but I’m afraid he’s being groomed my the Spurs fir when pop retires.but we might not have to give up any picks for him? I’m not sure.

    63. Brian Cronin

      There’s no official rule, but generally speaking, so long as a guy is getting a promotion, you don’t need to give up compensation for him. So Borrego wouldn’t cost a draft pick.

    64. Owen

      It’s the front office that matters. I remain much more interested in Ujiri than Budenholzer. If we get the latter I won’t complain though.

    65. Hubert

      I don’t see how they don’t ask for a first, though. He’s a highly in-demand coach. Any notion of “They just want to get out of his contract” is silly – the Celtics also wanted out from Doc’s contract and they still got a first for him. If you have an in-demand asset under contract, you don’t give him away to get out from paying him. It’s just illogical.

      He may be in demand but they can’t create a market for him. He’s under contract and in complete control of where he wants to go. They can’t trade him to Phoenix if he doesn’t want to coach there. If they ask for a first or two seconds and we say no, they have the following two choices:

      – Pay this guy we don’t want $13 million
      – Hire a guy we want for less and get some of Dolan’s money

      Whatever happened between the Clippers and Celtics doesn’t really matter here and is just noise. The Clippers were desperate for Rivers, and Ainge made it clear that he was fine keeping Rivers. He was probably bluffing but LA didn’t want to call it. We can afford to call Atlanta’s bluff because we have other options.

    66. Brian Cronin

      He may be in demand but they can’t create a market for him. He’s under contract and in complete control of where he wants to go. They can’t trade him to Phoenix if he doesn’t want to coach there. If they ask for a first or two seconds and we say no, they have the following two choices:

      – Pay this guy we don’t want $13 million
      – Hire a guy we want for less and get some of Dolan’s money

      Whatever happened between the Clippers and Celtics doesn’t really matter here and is just noise. The Clippers were desperate for Rivers, and Ainge made it clear that he was fine keeping Rivers. He was probably bluffing but LA didn’t want to call it. We can afford to call Atlanta’s bluff because we have other options.

      The Hawks have already said that they’re fine keeping him, as well.

      Think about who is coming up with the “The Hawks wouldn’t want draft picks” stuff – it’s Berman, the mouthpiece of the Knicks. Note that before the interview, Berman said, “Reports are Atlanta still would want draft-pick compensation — which sources said the Knicks are reluctant to give, and they assuredly won’t cough up a first-round pick. The Knicks would be more inclined to offer financial compensation, which could be a sticking point.” Then after the interview, “Oh, yeah, it probably won’t cost a draft pick.” This is purely about using a media mouthpiece to try to affect the demands.

      Do note that the Bucks are still out there and they can trade their late first rounder this year (well, technically they would have to pick for the Hawks) and Budz fits the Bucks timeline probably best of all.

    67. Hubert

      The Hawks have already said that they’re fine keeping him, as well.

      You can call that, though, and see if it’s a bluff. If they really mean it, then we should hire someone else.

      This will all come down to who plays their cards the best between Knicks mgmt, Hawks mgmt, and Budenholzer. Usually we lose those games, but who knows.

    68. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Bridges will take us to the promised land"

      Yeah, there’s a huge difference between Draymond, Giannis or even LeBron and Simmons. Simmons is just a PG who happens to be 6’10”.

      It will be interesting to see if they continue to play him that way or eventually put Fultz into the starting lineup. Also, I know he’s a good defender, but at 6’10” with traditional forwards in the lineup with him, you have to wonder whether someone is going to be able to create a mismatch somewhere with a small fast traditional PG.

    69. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @74

      One strength of having a 6’10 PG is that he can handle any PG matchup besides the smallest, speediest ones like vintage IT, and in that situation you can switch with the SG or SF without creating any mismatches, because Simmons is still 6’10! It’s downright unfair!

      Plus, you know, Embiid in the middle.

    70. kevin5318

      Maybe he just see KP, Frank and this year 1st as better prospects than whatever the Hawks has to offer in the near future.

      Who wouldn’t want to coach two potential DPOY candidates. He sees a great foundation in those two.

    71. JK47

      I might actually be sorta excited if the Knicks hired Budenholzer, who seems like a good fit for the current roster and who is a “no-drama” type guy. Hiring Bud would be the kind of thing a normal NBA franchise would do, and it would be the opposite of a Dolan’s Razor type move.

      This is kind of like the ultimate test for Dolan’s Razor. Behind curtain A you have Mark Jackson. Behind curtain B you have Anybody Else. If the Knicks go with curtain A we can say for certain that the Razor is an incontrovertible law.

    72. kevin5318

      Frank in limited minutes did a real good job of slowing Simmons down in their last game. Something to look forward too in the future.

    73. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Bridges will take us to the promised land"

      If we have to compensate Atlanta it doesn’t have to be picks “or” cash. It can be a little of “both”.

      If everyone agrees that Budenholzer is the “best coach available”, then I wouldn’t be too worried about giving away some combination of cash and a 2nd round pick. Maybe they want a first, but if no one is willing to give them one (imo we shouldn’t), the combination of saving money and the 2nd rounder might be enough to get the job done.

      Remember, he is saying the reason he wants to leave Atlanta is that they seem to be going into all out 76er tank mode and he doesn’t want to go that route. That means they are probably going to be bad for another 4-6 years at least. If they don’t get something for him now or next year, he’s going to leave at the end of his contract anyway. So they could pay him a ton of money and then lose him for nothing.

    74. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Bridges will take us to the promised land"

      Who wouldn’t want to coach two potential DPOY candidates. He sees a great foundation in those two.

      Wait until we add Mikal Bridges. (i hope)

    75. Frank

      Remember, he is saying the reason he wants to leave Atlanta is that they seem to be going into all out 76er tank mode and he doesn’t want to go that route. That means they are probably going to be bad for another 4-6 years at least. If they don’t get something for him now or next year, he’s going to leave at the end of his contract anyway. So they could pay him a ton of money and then lose him for nothing.

      In addition he might just coach the Hawks so well that he actively inhibits them from tanking effectively.

    76. Hubert

      This is kind of like the ultimate test for Dolan’s Razor. Behind curtain A you have Mark Jackson. Behind curtain B you have Anybody Else. If the Knicks go with curtain A we can say for certain that the Razor is an incontrovertible law.

      I’m the the only person here to even play devil’s advocate for Jackson, and I would lose it if we chose him over Bud.

      Most of my rationale for saying Jackson isn’t the end of the world was that I was unimpressed with the other people we were interviewing (Woodson, Blatt, etc). I didn’t think anyone as good as Budenholzer would want to come here.

      This is an incredible litmus test for Mills and Perry. He’s the best guy for the job, and he wants to come here. But MSG operates on the buddy system. They want to hire people they know. And also people they aren’t threatened by. I think they would prefer someone who is less likely to have an opinion on the way things should be run.

    77. Hubert

      Wait until we add Mikal Bridges. (i hope)

      He’s been destined to go one pick in front of us ever since we beat Cleveland on the last day of the season. No way that doesn’t bite us.

      Also, your name kinda jinxed it, too.

    78. hoolahoop

      There’s really no such thing as positions (PG, PF). There are only matchups and roles.
      What’s the difference between a PG and PF? It’s who they defend that gives their position a title.

      Magic was a PG, unless he guarded a forward. Then, he was a Point Forward.

    79. Bruno Almeida

      My guess is that Philly will wait until Fultz recovers at least a bit of his ability to shoot before they start him, they’ll probably just keep him as the backup to steady the 2nd unit for a while, which is a pretty good luxury to have.

      Covington is actually the big piece that allows Philly to matchup well with everybody on defense, he’s been drawing the Dragic assignment. Simmons is a good defender but Covington is better, so they can have him on Dragic and Simmons on Richardson or Winslow and Redick + Belinelli checking Ellington when he comes in.

      On Bud, well, if Atlanta is really not looking for compensation it’s a pretty exciting hire. I don’t think Perry and Mills are ever going to want to truly rebuild anyway so why not just go with the good coach?

    80. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Bridges will take us to the promised land"

      He’s been destined to go one pick in front of us ever since we beat Cleveland on the last day of the season. No way that doesn’t bite us.

      Also, your name kinda jinxed it, too.

      Unfortunately, I think you are right. I’ll change the name as soon as I think of something even mildly clever, but it may be too late. :-)

    81. hoolahoop

      I’m not smart enough to know that Bud is definitively the best coach available, but if he is, don’t let a 2nd rounder stand in the way. Grab him and lock up the deal.
      Imagine someone else takes him and becomes a contender while the knicks are still unintentionally tanking . . . because they didn’t want to give up Nate Jacksmith. Nate Jacksmith? That’s the second rounder in 2019 that never made the team.

    82. Bruno Almeida

      @87

      Well, we could always end up with Miles as the Knickerblogger prophecy has been telling for a year now.

    83. Frank

      I think Mikal Bridges will be long gone by the time we pick unfortunately. I wouldn’ be surprised if he went before both Bamba and Trae.

    84. ess-dog

      I can’t see Chicago taking Mikal over Bamba, but you never know. The Bulls, or the Knicks for that matter, could move up to the top 3, which would change things.

      I just wouldn’t be able to wrap my head around Sexton. Carter could make sense. I could even talk myself into Miles Bridges. But Sexton would give us such a logjam, it would likely mean a Frank trade was in the works. It seems like Porter could even drop to us at this point.

    85. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Bridges will take us to the promised land"

      I don’t know much about Miles Bridges, but I think you could make the case he was a little better statistically as a freshman than as a sophomore. Anyone have any insights?

    86. kevin5318

      Miles is very unimpressive to me from what I’ve seen of him. Can’t really create for himself at a high level and probably needs to play the 4 in the NBA to be successful.

      Problem is that he has a 6’7-8 wingspan which is extremely short for a 3/4.

    87. Brian Cronin

      This new ESPN mock draft has Mikal Bridges available at 9. But I think it goes by a straight player ranking system and doesn’t factor in what teams are likely to draft based on their needs.

      Yeah, that was always how they did things at their old site, so I guess they’re still doing it even now that they’ve become ESPN’s NBA Draft guys (replacing the disgraced Ford).

    88. JK47

      Wendell Carter seems to me like an obviously better prospect than Mikal Bridges. Carter is very well-rounded– can shoot, can score inside, is an impact defender, sets good screens… I have little doubt that Carter will be a good NBA player.

    89. Brian Cronin

      Wendell Carter seems to me like an obviously better prospect than Mikal Bridges. Carter is very well-rounded– can shoot, can score inside, is an impact defender, sets good screens… I have little doubt that Carter will be a good NBA player.

      I like them both a lot. What I also like is that if teams like those guys enough to pick them ahead of the Knicks, there are at least enough good guys out there that it won’t be a disaster. You aren’t really “stuck” with Mo Bamba, ya know? I’d prefer Carter and Bridges to him, but Mo Bamba with the #9 pick is still a great value. Or if it is Trae Young, he’s also a great value there.

    90. kevin5318

      @sbordow
      Breaking news: Suns have spoke to Jason Kidd and Vinny Del Negro about their coaching job.

    91. mase

      i think alexander is the sleeper as far as PG’s go…but i dont see how you can go wrong in this lottery. outside of top 4 picks the rest are all close; mikal and carter being taken before us if we pick 9.
      bamba/ KP frontcourt would be wildly entertaining.

    92. ess-dog

      My hope is that someone maybe takes Trae high up enough that another team that really needs a guard, say, Orlando, panics and takes Sexton above our slot, giving us a decent choice of wings and bigs.

      Re: Miles, he’s not my top choice, but I do think his motor and athleticism makes up for his lack of length a little. Heck, his sophomore season was roughly the same as Mikal’s if you go by WS/40, although he’s obviously not the defender Mikal is.

      He will have to learn to defend small forwards and shoot threes at a great clip to stick as a starter in the league, but I’m rooting for him. Idk maybe it’s because he reminds me of Larry Johnson a little, lol.

    93. Brian Cronin

      Lol, what happened to Chad Ford?

      He was altering his old mock drafts to make it look like he was more accurate than he actually was. Crazy, right?

      Honestly, though, he was probably fired more as a cost-cutting thing than anything else, but that was still pretty disgraceful.

    94. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      If the Suns hire Vinny Del Negro that’s just…wow

    95. lavor postell

      @Strat RE: Miles Bridges – https://www.thestepien.com/2018/03/01/miles-bridges-shot-diversity-part-two/

      That’s a pretty good read on some below the surface level improvements he made as a shot creator.

      I’m a Michigan guy so I watch alot of Big Ten ball and him playing out of position as a 3 all year certainly didn’t help his cause with the cramped spacing and lack of ability take advantage of speed advantage like he could as a 4. At his size though you have to wonder if he can play the 4 in the NBA even with teams going “smaller”. There are guys I think will still be on the board at 9 I’d prefer to him, so he’s not my favorite, but I’d be fine with him as the pick.

      Wendell Carter seems to me like an obviously better prospect than Mikal Bridges. Carter is very well-rounded– can shoot, can score inside, is an impact defender, sets good screens… I have little doubt that Carter will be a good NBA player.

      I like both of these guys alot. I think I like Mikal slightly more because I imagine him taking all the shots Lance did and that makes me happy.

      They’re both lower usage cog types on offense, but they’re the kind of guys who, I believe, do the small things that help make an offense flow more so you can run more sets than alot of the stagnant ISO/post-up and super basic PnR stuff we saw the last couple of years.

    96. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      If Lance is getting minutes next year, I will be very disappointed.

      On the other hand, it might be good for the tank, so… silver linings and all. Mudiay, Kanter, Lance…. We could really do some damage….

    97. TheOakmanCometh

      Scalabrine, who clashed with Preacher Mark Jackson as a Warriors assistant, surprisingly praised him in a recent interview.

      “It was like no locker room I’ve ever been a part of, just his technique for motivating guys to run through a wall for him,” Scalabrine told the Daily News. “And if I had a young team I would definitely think about hiring a guy like Mark because there’s a certain amount of development that has to happen in the NBA. And guys need to take strides. And confidence is a big part of it. And he knows how to bring out that confidence.”

      I’m as big a Preacher Mark hater as anyone, but it is interesting that Scal took the blame for their feud and pitched him for the Knicks job.

    98. kevin5318

      I actively dislike watching Lance play Basketball. Hopefully Troy’s jaw is fine for next season.

    99. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      All the love I once had for Mikal Bridges as a prospect has been replaced by Chandler Hutchison as a prospect. I think they aren’t too far apart as defenders but I like Hutchison much more as a shot creator than Bridges. Bridges seems like a high floor prospect but his shooting form worries me. He shoots the ball kind of far from his body which leads me to believe NBA defenders will have an easier time defending it than NCAA defenders did. If he can clean up the release you’re talking about a real value player over the life of his career. A good comparison for Bridges would be Tayshaun Prince I think. Hutchison may not offer you as much on the defensive side of the ball, but he’s a better rebounder, ball handler, finisher in transition, and shot creator than Bridges is. Hutchison reminds me of Gordon Hayward when I watch him play, and I’d love to have a guy like Gordon Hayward on the Knicks between Burke, Ntilikina, and Porzingis.

    100. mase

      Why is Hutchinson barely a first round pick, by all accounts he is as good as mikal if not a better shooter

    101. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Bridges will take us to the promised land"

      So now David Lee and Brian Scalabrine have endorsed Mark Jackson?

    102. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Bridges will take us to the promised land"

      Wendell Carter seems to me like an obviously better prospect than Mikal Bridges. Carter is very well-rounded– can shoot, can score inside, is an impact defender, sets good screens… I have little doubt that Carter will be a good NBA player.

      I like Carter more than Bridges too, but I think he’s more likely to be gone before #9. Plus, I think he’s more of a C than PF. Longer term, unless you feel very confident he’s going to be better than Bridges, we need a wing more than another C. KP is eventually going to be our C.

      We want the best player available, but if we are honest with ourselves, a lot of the time the players are too close to know which will be the better player.

    103. Bruno Almeida

      I really want Mikal because I think his floor is so high, but I would be very happy with Carter. I think he has a lower floor but a higher ceiling and that’s what the Knicks should be focusing on.

    104. Cock Jowles, a Real Value Contract at .502 TS% and $26.2M

      It’s a goddamn travesty that we can’t see the Dubs and Rockets in the Finals together. What a series that would be.

      What about first round being designated by conference, and the remaining rounds reseeded by regular-season win total?

    105. ptmilo

      it’s crazy the rockets aren’t even having an outlandish shooting game (though they were on fire in the third). But they have one turnover on 73 fga which is just incredible.

    106. Brian Cronin

      Can you even imagine giving up 50 points in a quarter? Even the Knicks would have a hard time giving up that many points in a quarter.

    107. Bruno Almeida

      Just a reminder that the Knicks could have had Rubio for Derrick Rose.

      James Harden is absolutely insane, that was one of the most impressive dismantling of a team I’ve seen in a long time. He literally outscored the entire Wolves team by himself in the 3rd.

    108. Ntilakilla

      Rubio is straight up outplaying and embarrassing the former MVP. Damn, I am pissed we couldn’t trade to get him.

    109. Bruno Almeida

      I like this Jazz team so much. All their pieces complement each other, they play with insane intensity and efficiently at the same time. It’s really a joy to watch if you like basketball. So many underrated players with extremely solid coaching.

    110. Ntilakilla

      So what is the excuse now for another crappy playoffs by Melo? Is it that he’s washed up because he can’t hide behind his teammates anymore.

    111. Bruno Almeida

      At this point it’s honestly just sad to watch. He’s 5/18. How is he so unable to understand that he should not be shooting?

    112. Bruno Almeida

      OKC ended the game with TEN assists, 14 turnovers. The performance by Westbrook is honestly just unacceptable, how can a guy this freaking talented play such stupid basketball? Get into his own head over a useless media narrative about Rubio and play like absolute garbage in their most important game of the year, stupid fouls, bad shots all over.

      I hate OKC and even I am frustrated by this.

    113. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      The previous game Melo had an efficient line, unlike tonight’s result. But I am not sure this is his fault. It seems like Westbrook bears a lot of the blame. He’s the point guard and had 3 assists in 36 minutes.

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