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Friday, April 26, 2019

Knicks Morning News (2017.02.24)

  • [NYDN] Kristaps Porzingis hurt as Knicks fall to Cavaliers, 119-104
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 8:23:57 PM)

    Same roster, same results. Only worse.

  • [NYDN] Charles Oakley sits next to Cavs owner at Knicks game
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 8:00:31 PM)

    Charles Oakley confirmed he plans to attend the Knicks-Cavs game in Cleveland on Thursday.

  • [NYDN] Kristaps Porzingis tweets cryptic meme after injuring ankle
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 7:59:02 PM)

    Porzingis had a zinger.

  • [NYDN] Charles Barkley curses on live TV while talking about Knicks
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 6:12:05 PM)

    Charles Barkley on live TV is always a treat.

  • [NYDN] Phil Jackson’s failures continue after doing nothing at deadline
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 2:02:42 PM)

    Maybe Phil Jackson is pacing himself. This is a marathon not a sprint, remember?

  • [NYDN] Knicks stand pat at deadline, Rose-for-Rubio fails to materialize
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 10:30:10 AM)

    After a lot of noise, the Knicks did nothing.

  • [NYDN] Knicks’ James Dolan is NBA outsider for $300G donation to Trump
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 10:04:27 AM)

    Supporting Donald Trump’s campaign has politically put James Dolan at odds with the NBA’s biggest figures.

  • [ESPN] Friday’s Knicks News: Jackson failed again at trade deadline
    (Friday, February 24, 2017 4:54:46 AM)

    Friday’s Knicks News: Jackson failed again at trade deadline

  • [ESPN] Melo: Frustrating not to know Knicks’ direction
    (Friday, February 24, 2017 1:07:12 AM)

    Melo: Frustrating not to know Knicks’ direction

  • [ESPN] After talking Derrick Rose-for-Ricky Rubio, Knicks stay the course
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 6:10:35 PM)

    After talking Derrick Rose-for-Ricky Rubio, Knicks stay the course

  • [ESPN] George, Butler stay put as big trade talks fizzle
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 4:37:17 PM)

    George, Butler stay put as big trade talks fizzle

  • [NYPost] Charles Barkley swears on live TV when talking about Knicks
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 11:17:43 PM)

    Charles Barkley did what many Knicks fans want to do when watching this poorly performing team — swear. On the TNT telecast, Barkley slipped in a curse word describing the Knicks after their 119-104 loss to the Cavaliers on Thursday night in Cleveland. When Barkley and TNT colleagues Ernie Johnson and Shaquille O’Neal were talking…

  • [NYPost] Injured Porzingis tweets cryptic meme and then deletes it
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 10:44:47 PM)

    It looks like this injury-filled season could be getting to Kristaps Porzingis. Porzingis — who sprained his right ankle in the second quarter of the Knicks’ 119-104 loss to the Cavaliers on Thursday night in Cleveland — tweeted this cryptic meme after the game before quickly deleting it. ?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw The 7-foot-3 big man, who has…

  • [NYPost] Why Jackson’s trade deadline inaction is so concerning
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:38:07 PM)

    CLEVELAND — Knicks president Phil Jackson isn’t a fan of Las Vegas — one of his least favorite cities because of the searing heat and crowds. Or maybe because he’s not a wiz at poker. A second straight trade deadline has passed without Jackson making a transaction. Carmelo Anthony and Derrick Rose are still Knicks,…

  • [NYPost] Carmelo: I have no idea what Phil Jackson’s vision is for Knicks
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 8:11:09 PM)

    CLEVELAND — Taking a pregame nap, Carmelo Anthony slept through Thursday’s 3 p.m. trade deadline, knowing he wasn’t going anywhere, but admitted he expected something else to happen. With Knicks president Phil Jackson standing pat, Anthony candidly admitted he’s unsure of the team’s direction. Following a dispiriting 119-104 loss to the Cavaliers, Anthony was asked…

  • [NYPost] Knicks end do-nothing deadline day with stinker, Porzingis injury
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 5:47:13 PM)

    CLEVELAND — No trade. No mercy. Knicks president Phil Jackson didn’t do anything at the trade deadline Thursday and the club didn’t do anything on the court. The same-old Knicks responded by getting routed for the fourth straight time by the defending-champion Cavaliers, 119-104, at Quicken Loans Arena. Led by a LeBron James triple-double, the…

  • [NYPost] Knicks stayed silent at deadline when T-wolves soured on Rose
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 10:17:53 AM)

    CLEVELAND — For the second straight trade deadline, Knicks president Phil Jackson stood pat. And he may have been left at the altar by Tom Thibodeau. Derrick Rose is still a Knick. Carmelo Anthony is still a Knick. Ricky Rubio is not a Knick. According to NBA sources, some members of the Timberwolves organization were…

  • [NYPost] Sitting with Cavs owner, Oakley won’t say he’s rooting for Knicks
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:15:02 AM)

    CLEVELAND — Charles Oakley, who was in Oakland, Calif. for the Cavaliers’ Game 7 Finals triumph last June, was a conspicuous guest at Quicken Loans Arena on Thursday — and seated next to Cleveland’s eccentric owner Dan Gilbert no less. The Cleveland resident saw his first Knicks game in person since he was arrested Feb….

  • [NYPost] Derrick Rose grumbles about Knicks offense
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 7:38:54 AM)

    CLEVELAND — If these were his final hours as a Knick, Derrick Rose went out calling the triangle offense “random basketball’’ while praising his former coach, Tom Thibodeau, with whom he could soon be reunited. Speaking in the visitors’ locker room in Cleveland with the clock ticking on the 3 p.m. trade deadline, a downbeat…

  • [NY Newsday] Derrick Rose, Carmelo Anthony remain Knicks as NBA trade deadline passes
    (Friday, February 24, 2017 12:44:11 AM)

    An uneventful trade deadline should lead to another busy offseason for the Knicks.

  • [NY Newsday] Kristaps Porzingis sprains ankle as Knicks open second half of season with loss to Cavaliers
    (Friday, February 24, 2017 12:17:12 AM)

    CLEVELAND — A bad day for the Knicks got worse late in the first half when Kristaps Porzingis turned his right ankle and limped off the court.

  • [NY Newsday] Charles Oakley attends Knicks game in Cleveland
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:44:02 PM)

    Charles Oakley attended his first Knicks game since being thrown out of Madison Square Garden two weeks ago. He sat with Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert in the front row right next to Cleveland’s bench.

  • [SNY Knicks] Porzingis leaves game with ankle injury
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:35:00 PM)

    Knicks F Kristaps Porzingis left Thursday night’s game against the Cleveland Cavaliers with under a minute left in the first half with a sprained right ankle.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks open second half with loss to Cavs
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 10:45:00 PM)

    LeBron James recorded his 48th career triple-double and Kyrie Irving scored 23 points, leading the Cleveland Cavaliers to a 119-104 victory over the Knicks.

  • [SNY Knicks] Oakley watches courtside as Knicks face Cavaliers in Cleveland
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 8:30:58 PM)

    Charles Oakley and his lawyer sat courtside with Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert during the Knicks’ matchup in Cleveland Thursday night.

  • [SNY Knicks] Tonight’s Game: Knicks at Cavaliers
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 6:30:05 PM)

    The Knicks return from the All-Star break with a matchup against Lebron James and the Cleveland Cavaliers from Quicken Loans Arena at 8 p.m. ET on Thursday night.

  • [SNY Knicks] Daily News Live: Frank Isola reviews the Knicks’ uneventful trade deadline
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 6:33:12 PM)

  • [SNY Knicks] Wolves balked at straight up Rose for Rubio swap at deadline
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 3:04:54 PM)

    The Knicks did not make any moves prior to Thursday’s NBA trade deadline, which passed at 3 p.m. ET.

  • [SNY Knicks] Dolan donated large sum to a Trump fundraising committee
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 5:40:44 PM)

    Madison Square Garden executive chairman James Dolan donated $300,000 to Donald Trump’s campaign less than two months prior to the election, the Daily News reports.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks have had talks with Clippers about Courtney Lee
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 1:26:42 PM)

    The Knicks have had discussions with the Clippers regarding a trade that would send SG Courtney Lee to Los Angeles.

  • [SNY Knicks] Rubio remains a target for Knicks as trade deadline nears
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 1:10:07 PM)

    With Thursday’s NBA trade deadline less than two hours away, Timberwolves PG Ricky Rubio remains a “significant target” of the Knicks.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks recall Plumlee, Ndour from Westchester
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 8:34:19 AM)

    The Knicks have recalled Marshall Plumlee and Maurice Ndour from Westchester, and both are expected to be available tonight against Cleveland.

  • [NYTimes] As N.B.A. Trade Deadline Passes, Major Players Stay Put
    (Friday, February 24, 2017 1:24:38 AM)

    Carmelo Anthony, Paul George and Jimmy Butler — three of the biggest names involved in trade speculation in recent days — did not switch teams.

  • [NYTimes] Carmelo Anthony and Derrick Rose Are Still Knicks, for Now
    (Friday, February 24, 2017 1:50:38 AM)

    The N.B.A. trading deadline passed with neither player being dealt, but whether either will be around next season remains uncertain.

  • [NYTimes] W.N.B.A. President Says She Was ‘Stunned and Disappointed’ by Candice Wiggins’s Comments
    (Friday, February 24, 2017 3:18:06 AM)

    Lisa Borders, the league president, responded to Wiggins’s statements in an interview that the league was “toxic” and its culture was “very, very harmful.”

  • [NYTimes] Charles Oakley Attends First Knicks Game Since His Arrest
    (Friday, February 24, 2017 2:04:20 AM)

    Oakley sat courtside at Quicken Loans Arena on Thursday for the Knicks’ game against the Cavaliers, saying he was merely there “to enjoy the game.”

  • [NYTimes] N.B.A. Trades: The Stars Stay Put as Deadline Passes
    (Thursday, February 23, 2017 8:53:57 PM)

    The Sixers traded Nerlens Noel to Dallas, but Indiana’s Paul George appears to be staying in Indiana.

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    158 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.02.24)

    1. Bo Nateman

      That tweet speaks volumes about KP’s view towards his dysfunctional team. The off season may
      the tipping point regarding his psychic investment in the Knicks, and thus his willingness to stay the course here. I wonder how he regards the treatment of Melo( does he even see Melo as someone retarding his growth?) and the other disasters that characterize this franchise. He is very tight with his family, who appear to be his primary advisers. What is their take on this mess? Have the Knicks given KP any reassurance that things will change? Has this franchise bottomed out yet?

    2. KJG

      I posted in rage yesterday that KP ain’t coming back … and it wouldn’t surprise me if he didn’t. No one else really wants to play here. Why would he? Aside from the money. Brands can be built from Alaska. Phuck New York

    3. Philmelo

      I read the tweet in a far more prosaic, simplistic light. Its basically a picture detailing how you think the path to your goals is a straightforward line when in reality its a turbulent one fraught with many difficult ups and downs.

    4. KJG

      I moved out of my childhood home in NYC 12 years ago… and the only thing I really miss… is the accessibility of an overpriced cocktail… and maybe the pizza and Italian pastries.

      Be free, KP. Enjoy your career!

    5. KJG

      I don’t think the tweet has a profound undertone in anyway… It just wouldn’t surprise me if he moved on after the rookie deal

    6. Bo Nateman

      @4
      I’d like to think so, but the timing of it suggests different possible interpretations. Whatever its meaning, one would hope that FO is giving him some reassurance about the direction of the team

    7. Ambrosenyk

      It sucks seeing KP so frustrated with this team, but hey atleast Melo is happy he’s still a Knick. He got to hoist up 25 shots yesterday and still managed to be outscored by Courtney Lee.

      Lonzo Ball would solve a lot of these problems. #rememberthetank

    8. Bruno Almeida

      http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18754646/carmelo-anthony-new-york-knicks-understand-team-direction-inactivity-trade-deadline

      I mean, I have to agree 100% with Melo.

      This is the kind of bullshit that I don’t like: see, I hate Carmelo’s game. Hate it. But he’s the “face of this franchise” anyway, so you bring him in and tell him “hey Melo, we tankin’, aight?” or you tell him “we tryin’ to get a piece of that 8th seed let’s go” and be done with it.

      We don’t need to know, we’re just fans; but having your own players come out and say they have no fucking idea what is the team direction, that’s the kind of dysfunctional bullshit that is the same old Knicks.

    9. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Phil’s total lack of communication with anyone at all is just mind-blowing. That the face of the franchise even has no idea what’s going on is just insane.

      He’s not actually a leader, apparently. He’s just a guy who had Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen.

      I feel so bad for everyone but especially Hornacek. How do you possibly succeed in this fucking shitshow of a basketball organization?

    10. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      It’s pretty clear that Phil has no plan at all beyond waiting to see whether the team tanks or makes the playoffs and then declare publicly (or maybe not declare anything at all) that that was his plan all along in order to take credit ex post facto.

      It’s so clear that he needs to be fired but who the hell would Dolan hire? It’s like choosing between Scylla and Charybdis.

    11. Farfa

      It’s like choosing between Scylla and Charybdis.

      Boy you’ve got me drooling here dropping those Odyssey citations

    12. kevin5318

      Does Dennis Smith project better than Derrick Rose coming out of College? Seen a few comparison because of the hero ball and lack of defensive intensity.

    13. KnickfaninNJ

      Marc Berman of the New York Post explains where it went wrong:

      According to NBA sources, some members of the Timberwolves organization were against dealing for Rose because his playing style could hurt the growth of young studs Andrew Wiggins and Karl-Anthony Towns.

      I believe this. I think missing the deadline could have been due to uncertainty among the Timberwolves, more than something the Knicks did. Remember that the Timberwolves GM is their full time coach. It’s easy to imagine that he didn’t have enough GM time to make their front office all be on one page.

      On another note, I nominate Jim Dolan to be Trump’s chief of staff. He’d be better than what is there now and he’d have to temporarily give up control of the Knicks. His band could play a lot of White House gigs too.

    14. chrisk06811

      I’m sure it will all work out for the best.

      Dallas and Minn play each other tonight, somebody has to win, and become tied with us.

    15. Bruno Almeida

      In other news, not every single Timberwolves staff member is totally oblivious about basketball.

    16. KnickfaninNJ

      True, and I just took a look at a couple of Timberwolve blogs and their fans didn’t want Rose either

    17. Bruno Almeida

      yeah, I mean, we got excited and all, but trading Rubio for Rose made absolutely zero sense for the Wolves, it was an insane idea… LaVine, Wiggins and Towns already combine for like 60 shots a game, add Rose to that… holy hell.

    18. thenoblefacehumper

      So we traded Lopez and Grant for one year of shitty Derrick Rose in which we were playing for ping pong balls before the halfway mark. Whoever could have seen this coming?

    19. Z-man

      I am totally ambivalent about the non-trades at the deadline. Phil did the right thing in trying to get picks or asking for more than fair value, and in not giving up any future picks.

      Even though a straight-up Rose for Rubio trade would have been a great deal on paper, tying up two years of salary in Rubio with this current team is just not appealing to me. Sue me, I just can’t get behind a PG that can’t shoot at all, not in a 3-pt dominant league like we have right now. I’d rather roll the dice and hope that we dig up the next D-league or 2nd round gem. Better off just letting Rose expire and calling it a day.

      I’d rather just let Melo’s, Noah’s, Lance’s, and Lee’s contracts run out or trade for pix or waive them than make a desperation trade at the deadline. In the meantime, keep adding young or unknown players. Let Melo suffer through more losing and see what happens over the summer when teams get smacked down in the playoffs.

      O’Quinn for a first rounder would have been great, but keeping him is great too. Probably our best non-rookie contract, why dump it for nothing?

      Lee is somewhat overpaid, but at least he’s a solid placeholder rotation player. Not surprising that no one was willing to deal for him in desperation.

    20. Owen

      The Rose trade never made any sense. I agree, adding Rose to a team with Wiggins and Towns was a bonkers idea. Which is why we should have jumped on it.

      I think if we have set a new direction by the end of next year Porzee will be happy. But he has a rough year ahead I fear.

      How about Willie Cauley Stein last night. How surprised would anyone be if he came out and produced like Cousins? Well, in a very different way, but I don’t think I would be shocked if he turned in some blue chip performances. Always felt he would end up an very productive player.

    21. jkhar

      I think we can all agree that was a bad trade at the time, and in retrospect. You guys are right PJ doesn’t do well with trades, which is why I am happy a trade did not get done before the deadline.

    22. Ingmarrr

      I’m starting to get a breakup feeling. You hope your loved one would change, or the circumstances, or yourself, and than it’s the same old shit over and over and over. Until finally it’s not worth it anymore.

      But I bet most of us let the other person do the leaving.

    23. Bruno Almeida

      @23

      I watched the entire Kings game yesterday and man, do they look revitalized.

      it’s one game, obviously, but they played team basketball, ran after every ball and had a lot of defensive intensity… WCS, Labissiere and Hield all had “rookie” moments but they all showed signs of being blue-chip prospects like they were in the draft.

      they’ll most likely still suck because the talent is not really great, but at least for one night they looked like a young team with a lot of potential against a decent team.

    24. KJG

      @28… and Cousins got his… Pelicans are gonna regret the move! I can say that after 1 game! and if I’m wrong… so what…

    25. jkhar

      I’m finding it so odd that Melo is looking like a victim this year. These talking heads on TV are just roasting the Knicks for being bad, but letting Melo off the hook for being one of the biggest reasons for it.
      I mean I don’t mind PJ and Dolan getting crushed for bad moves, but shouldn’t Melo be getting equally beat up for the state of this franchise?

    26. Ambrosenyk

      @26 I’m starting to feel this as well. Some situations in life are destined to crash and burn. The stupid ones continue emotionally investing in the doomed. Last night, it felt so hollow seeing Melo hoist up 25 shots for no real reason. Again, no blame to the players (they do suck though). The management should be ashamed of letting the no-brainer decision to rebuild become this toxic.

    27. KJG

      its time to fully commit… im more on board than ever, with one caveat… i want the bench to play, but yes, i do want them to play well and win… and if/when they don’t, there is true consolation…

    28. Bruno Almeida

      Im starting to envy Philadelphia.

      yeah, it must have been terrible to watch years and years of horrible basketball, but… we also watched years of horrible basketball and we are still in a hopeless position hoping for improbable lucky breaks.

      if I didn’t love basketball so much I would have already given up.

    29. thenoblefacehumper

      Philly has had one more consecutive losing season than us. One. And they seemed poised to end that streak before we do, so we very well may wind up with more consecutive losing seasons. But hey, let’s hold our heads up high because we’re doing it the “right way.”

    30. Accidentank 2017

      That KP tweet seems to be more about his foot injury than anything else, but I am very worried about this franchise with Phil Jackson running it into the ground. Phil really needs to go, and the media needs to put the pressure on Dolan to exercise his right to opt out of the deal. Hire Mike Zarren out of Boston and this franchise will have rebuilt itself in 2 years.

    31. KJG

      im lucky to live in philly suburb… not happy about the deals they made this past week… and obviously not happy that we dont get to see simmons at all this year… i was texting with my buddy yesterday (who’s a part of the org) and the consensus (barring the front office) seemed like they were on board to try and win some games to finish the year… like, legit try… i know how i would feel playing for an org like that… they are still in a better spot than us, no doubt…

    32. Bo Nateman

      Time for FO and Horny to confront Rose and Melo and tell them it’s time to adapt their games. Team has leverage especially on Rose, who is playing for a contract. You may no longer be the black holes of usage sucking the efficiency out of the team. Adapt or sit. In the case of Melo,it might frame his decision wrt his NTC. Doubt PJ has the balls, but doing that also enhances the tank and allows team to assess other parts.

    33. mase

      Total fail by pj… no free agents in their right mind want to play here. Hell I can’t imagine holiday wanting to resign here.

      Now what’s the plan?
      Can’t sign anyone…. can’t trade anyone…so draft a rookie into a losing Situation with no where to go but fail under the pressure and big lights of msg. Absolutely terrible situation. Three more years of this shit, total joke.

      Dolan would be smart to make the members of this board his gm by committee. We could go to the press conference all dressed up fully masked and hide our identities like we are in ‘v for vendetta’

    34. Z-man

      Is Philly’s way the “right way?” Are they really any closer to contending than we are? How have all of their high picks worked out? Are they just cursed?

    35. thenoblefacehumper

      Is Philly’s way the “right way?” Are they really any closer to contending than we are? How have all of their high picks worked out? Are they just cursed?

      They’re about as good as we are now with no bad contracts, the Lakers’ 2017 pick, the Kings’ 2019 pick, and countless second round picks. Hinkie has made this almost impossible to screw up, though the Colangelos sure do seem hellbent on trying. They could very easily come away from this draft with Isaac and Smith Jr., or even better than that with a little lottery luck.

    36. jkhar

      Someone made a good point the other day, that the value of those first round picks are pretty high, right until you cash them in…then they become just another player. I think they equated it to driving off the lot with a brand new car, the value depreciates instantly.

    37. Farfa

      Philly has a bright future (absurd Noel trade notwithstanding). We have jack shit apart from a regressing KP and a promising rookie Willy. Every other guy is not going to be part of our future. Phil has been just terrible.

    38. swiftandabundant

      I would not overthink Zinger’s tweet. He’s probably just frustrated with his recent injuries. Yes there is drama around the team and Dolan/Oakley, etc…but I wonder how much of that really gets to the players when they’re on the plane, warming up, in the games, etc.

      I think he’s just frustrated bc the beginning of this year he seemed to be taking a big step forward and the team was doing better than last year, there was some buzz and now he’s had injuries and they’re losing again. So the picture represents how you improve but the improvement isn’t just linear going up all the time.

    39. Ambrosenyk

      Also re: Philly, they’re a lot more fun to watch. When Embiid is in there, he’s the focus of the offense. Unlike us, where Melo and Rose decide it’s okay to just shoot all game long.

    40. Z-man

      I’m starting to think more and more that Melo will be moved this summer, that he will waive his NTC and we’ll find a contender with some expirings to make things work. He’s only signed for 2 years after this one, making him a much lower risk for a win-now team. I doubt we get anything close to fair value for him, but whatever.

      If that happens, then the only remaining albatross is the Noah contract, and nothing can be done about that. He’s essentially Amare light. The only saving grace is that he is a lower % of the cap than Amare was. We probably sign Kristaps to a max deal when he becomes a RFA in 2019. So that off-season and the 2020 offseason are the next windows of opportunity for this franchise, outside the draft, of course.

    41. DRed

      Time for FO and Horny to confront Rose and Melo and tell them it’s time to adapt their games. Team has leverage especially on Rose, who is playing for a contract. You may no longer be the black holes of usage sucking the efficiency out of the team. Adapt or sit

      This, but the complete opposite. We gotta lose games now.

    42. Z-man

      Phil has been horrible, no doubt. However, his horrors are not as egregious as Isiah, or even the great Donnie Walsh. It’s nice to know that even when we suck, there’s a silver lining and some light at the end of the tunnel, even if it’s 3 years out.

    43. JK47

      The thing that worries me is that the Knicks will have to deal with two more Phil Jackson offseasons. Does anybody really think he has learned anything? He’ll have cap space to use this coming offseason, and that’s troubling. “Hey, we just barely missed the playoffs this year. With our new draft pick Miles Bridges and all of this cap space, the sky’s the limit, especially once these guys get the hang of the triangle…”

    44. thenoblefacehumper

      We’re not drafting miles bridges. I am a bit worried we’ll go PG instead of bpa

      I worry about this a lot. There was that article a few weeks ago that mentioned Phil envisions drafting a franchise point guard, which implies he’s made the decision to draft a point guard already. I don’t want to take Fox or Ntilikina (nothing against them) over Isaac, for example.

    45. Z-man

      Those are definitely legit reasons to fear Phil’s coming moves. Still, he’s no Isiah or Donnie (MSG version). He seems to have good scouts for draft picks and eurofinds.

    46. Bruno Almeida

      I could see a scenario where many top teams in the lottery are not willing to draft Fultz or Ball because they really don’t need PGs, and instead choose to go for Jackson / Isaac / Monk… I still think it’s pretty impossible those two are dropping out of the top 5, because those teams might as well trade the picks too, but that would push the Smith / Fox duo further below in the lottery to a range the Knicks are more realistically able to reach.

      I’d be fine with either, more with Fox because he’s a good defender, but Smith has great instincts, a .576 ts% (with a crazy .500+ FTr) and he seems to be a willing passer despite his team being mostly underwhelming.

      if he can run pick and rolls well and get to the line a lot, he’ll be very valuable.

    47. Cock Jowles, #1 Pythag. Wins Denialist

      There’s no way Melo can go the entire offseason without dreading returning to camp. This team is just too bad and doesn’t have enough optimist-friendly pieces for anyone save the wildest fanboys (“er”) and the “reasonable” glass-half-fullers (“Frank,” “Z-man”) to get excited about.

      Cousins had a good game last night, but Pels fans are gonna be real confused when their team still struggles to do better than an 8-seed with two all-world talents on the team. I don’t know what Davis’s deal is, but dude’s been underachieving since he put up those MVP numbers a couple years ago.

    48. Bruno Almeida

      as it stands, the top 5 would be now Celtics – Suns – Lakers – Magic – Sixers.. the Celtics certainly do not need a PG, specially since they love Smart too, the Suns have many other needs and Bledsoe is their perceived best player and the Lakers are unlikely to cut the ties with Russell so soon, so that’s a realistic possibility.

    49. mase

      @60

      You are over estimating Melos desire to win. If history has taught us anything it’s that above all melo prefers to be the center of his own universe.

    50. SJK

      I like Isaac a lot as a prospect, but unless he plays the 3 he’s a bad fit next to KP, and I feel like the way to maximize his value is to play him at the 4. We would just get eaten up inside with two dudes that skinny.

    51. Cock Jowles, #1 Pythag. Wins Denialist

      After next year, Isaiah is going to be 29 and in line for a 7-9-year-veteran max deal worth up to $31M (assuming the cap stays flat after next year) in his first year, so I think you’d be looking at ~$34M AAV over four years. He will probably get that offer from some team with too much cap space that doesn’t realize that a 5’9″ guard at age 33 probably shouldn’t get that kind of money.

      Unless you’re ready to gamble on Thomas, you have to take the best available player in the draft and then either develop him or trade down and pick up more draft picks for the “position need” player that you get in exchange. I’m guessing that at least 25 of the teams in the league would like to have Fultz or Ball, so if you take either at #1 and then talk a swap + picks, you could continue to parlay the Nets’ stupidity into a stream of talent over time. The Pacers may have saved them from the “win-now” mentality that has sunk other teams, so I suspect they’ll continue to develop talent and let players walk when they’ve backfilled positions.

      Maybe the Sixers are an example of a team that loaded up on too many players who can’t play together, but I think their issue has been picking guys with injury concerns. It’s hard to flip your young prospects when they can’t stay on the floor longer than 15 mpg.

      Also Colangelo is an idiot and never bothered to play their best defensive player with their best offensive player at the same time.

    52. Bruno Almeida

      I agree that if I managed the Celtics I would pick Ball and never look back, but I doubt Ainge is not going to re-sign Thomas… he’s very beloved there.

    53. d-mar

      I will say the Rockets are not a team you want to play immediately after changing your roster.

      Reading this brought back memories of Stephon Marbury’s first game as a Knick at MSG, when the Rockets came in and completely spanked us.

      An appropriate beginning to the Starbury era.

    54. DRed

      If youre the Lakers you move Russell off the ball. If Fultz/Ball are that good you draft him and let IT walk. maybe one of those two slips to 3, but I’d be shocked if one of them fell any further just based on their hype. Andrew Wiggins went 1st overall purely based on hype, and both Fultz and Ball are more productive than him.

    55. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      We could be more like the Sixers if we would have traded KP for two second round draft picks.
      Damn you, Phil.

    56. bobneptune

      There is only one imperative, namely to finish as poorly as possible to be sure to enter the top six in the draft and come away with a likely quality, young and cheap player.

      For all of Phil’s stupidity, the one area he has shined is in the draft process.

      Of course, I would love to see it broken completely down over the summer moving Melo, KOQ, Lee , Kuz and whatever other detritus can be moved and let Rose expire and really suck hard in 2018 and bag a high loto pick. Then something lasting can be built.

      I would just remind the fans that the only sustained period of greatness in franchise history the core was built over a 4 year period of drafts. The future is brighter than it has been in a very long time because we actually have all picks moving forward

    57. JK47

      We could be more like the Sixers if we would have traded KP for two second round draft picks.
      Damn you, Phil.

      Keep defending Phil’s terrible performance by beating up on that straw man. It’s hilarious watching you flail around trying to defend this senile mustachioed geezer.

    58. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Phil inherited a bankrupt franchise with only one draft pick going forward for his first three years here. He gave us Porzingod. Then he stole Willy too. We have all of our picks plus going forward thanks to Phil the Great. We’re turning it around and those who knock him right now will be his biggest lapdogs in the future. You are all idiots by comparison when it comes to basketball. Thirteen rings.

    59. stratomatic

      I will say the Rockets are not a team you want to play immediately after changing your roster.

      I have been know to bet on basketball. :-) This year I was too tied up with other projects to do the work necessary to have a chance of being successful. So I set it aside for a season. Last night I made my first bet of the season because I didn’t think I needed any special insights or data. I bet Houston at -3.5. As far as I am concerned, Cousins is overrated, not a particularly good fit with Anthony Davis, and they have a shell of a team left after that other than Holiday. Even if it does work, it’s going to take some time. Under any circumstances I thought it was a horrible matchup against Houston (who made a good move at the deadline) right out of the box. I can’t remember the last time one of my bets won that easily.

    60. JK47

      Kind of like how all of us were going to be super embarrassed and would have to apologize to you when the 2017-2018 won 55 games.

    61. bobneptune

      After next year, Isaiah is going to be 29 and in line for a 7-9-year-veteran max deal worth up to $31M (assuming the cap stays flat after next year) in his first year, so I think you’d be looking at ~$34M AAV over four years. He will probably get that offer from some team with too much cap space that doesn’t realize that a 5’9? guard at age 33 probably shouldn’t get that kind of money.

      While I agree one might be a little leery of a 5 yr max for a 29 yr old midget, one thing working in IT’s favor is he hasn’t logged crazy Thibs minutes his first 5.5 seasons averaging 29.8 mpg. he has been a constantly very good player the past 4 season and crazy good this year.

      If the Celts did draft a player they love to play the point he would certainly have real value on the trade market or maybe IT could defend the point with Fultz defending the 2.

      The Pistons played pretty well for a long time with 2 point guards…..

    62. er

      KP is mad he keeps getting hurt…….he probably deleted it because someone probably told him what it “seemed” like he was talking about.

    63. geo

      I’m starting to get a breakup feeling. You hope your loved one would change, or the circumstances, or yourself, and than it’s the same old shit over and over and over. Until finally it’s not worth it anymore.

      But I bet most of us let the other person do the leaving.

      ugh, that was deep and waaaay too real to read so early in the day Ingmarrr…

      talk about things not being quite right – how the hell is it warmer in nyc than in southern california right now – what’s up with that???

    64. geo

      Keep defending Phil’s terrible performance by beating up on that straw man. It’s hilarious watching you flail around trying to defend this senile mustachioed geezer.

      i gotta be honest – every time they show a shot of phil up in the stands watching the game with his mouth completely agape – not such a flattering picture of competency and awareness…

      learn to breathe through your nose phil…

    65. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      @75 Please don’t delude yourself into thinking that you have one one thousandth of Phil’s basketball acumen. Sorry.

    66. Z-man

      So if the knicks don’t re-sign Rose and stand pat otherwise, they will add a #1 pick and have about a max deal’s worth of cap room. Assuming they don’t sign Rose and melo does not agree to a trade, what should they do?

    67. JK47

      Maybe not reub, but he has less basketball acumen than just about any GM currently running an NBA franchise, and I have enough basketball acumen to figure out that he doesn’t know what the fuck he’s doing. Al Davis had more “football acumen” than me but that didn’t keep the Raiders from perennial laughing stock status. It doesn’t matter if Phil knows more than me. What matters is if he knows more than his rival GMs. Which he clearly does not.

    68. geo

      basketball acumen and the ability to be able to successfully negotiate a deal/contract or basic breathing techniques – seem to be fairly unrelated traits…at least with our guy anyway…

    69. bobneptune

      So if the knicks don’t re-sign Rose and stand pat otherwise, they will add a #1 pick and have about a max deal’s worth of cap room. Assuming they don’t sign Rose and melo does not agree to a trade, what should they do?

      Simply trade Lee , KOQ and Kuz/Lance for whatever picks available, sign no FA’s (unless an unbelieveable value play falls into their lap.

      Park whatever bad contract available from a team looking to sign an UFA that needs cap space for a #1 pick.

      Play white boy and whatever D-league point they can find along with N’dour, Plumlee, etc and do a proper tank while smoking Melo out. If nothing can be done with Noah…. maybe in 2 years he can be Bogut for 18 minutes a game of good passing /rebounding back up 5.

      Top 3 pick in the ’18 draft and off we go…… with a ton of space moving forward with KP, WHG, the top 6 pick from this year and the top 3 pick from next year…..

      Easy peazy lemon squeezy………….. Phil retires a hero………

    70. djphan

      @80 – i think what we’re doing now is just drafting bpa and probably shop the bottom of the barrel in FA for a pg… that’s probably looking like patty mills/livingston/collison…

      i think we’ll probably set our eyes on dragic but i doubt we have anything to give them besides future picks which isn’t a good idea…

    71. thenoblefacehumper

      So if the knicks don’t re-sign Rose and stand pat otherwise, they will add a #1 pick and have about a max deal’s worth of cap room. Assuming they don’t sign Rose and melo does not agree to a trade, what should they do?

      Good question. At first glance of the list of free agents, there doesn’t really seem to be anyone worth pursuing. We should check in on OPJ and Mills’, but I imagine they’re just re-signing with the Wizards and Spurs. JaMychal Green is kinda young and likely to be undervalued, so I’d throw him a reasonable offer (maybe 4/$20m or something, dunno exactly).

      Other than that, use the cap space to facilitate teams wanting to dump contracts for assets (it’ll always kill me that we could’ve facilitated the now infamous Kings-Sixers trade but we signed Afflalo and Williams instead). Try to trade all the guys who aren’t part of the future (Lee, Melo, O’Quinn) for picks and/or young players, or to move up in the draft. If Holiday wants to re-sign on the cheap ($3m AAV is probably where I’d draw the line), sure. If not, let him walk because he isn’t actually very good. Same with Ron Baker (nothing but the minimum for him, sorry).

    72. Bruno Almeida

      I would love to see the Knicks not use the cap room acquired by Rose (hopefully) leaving.

      one of the most valuable possibilities for a rebuilding team is to absorb terrible contracts from desperate teams with picks to smooth the deals out… that’s mostly how Philly got so many 2nd rounders (and even first rounders).

    73. Philmelo

      You guys are ridiculous writing about how great the Sixers currently are. The Sixers’ future is about as steady as Embiid’s broken body. I’d rather have Willy right now because after two major foot surgeries and a knee at 22 years of age, I’d be surprised if Embiid can play 60 games a season.

    74. Philmelo

      BTW, Willy had another double-double. 11 points (4/9), 10 rebounds, 4/1 assist-turnover ratio, and 2 blocked shots in 27 minutes of play. If Embiid stops playing he should be ROY.

    75. Bruno Almeida

      the Sixers are not about Embiid only, even if his career is over, which it obviously isn’t, Simmons has yet to play and they have flexibility and great picks moving forward (and while tanking winning about as many games as the Knicks on win-now mode)

      they are in a better position, period.

      if everything goes wrong with them they still have to face just another clean slate, with no terrible contracts and a lot of picks.

    76. thenoblefacehumper

      The Sixers have the Lakers’ 2017 pick (or 2018 unprotected) and the Kings’ 2019 unprotected pick. They’re about as good as we are now, just with those picks plus infinite seconds and all the cap flexibility in the world. There is simply no way to argue we’re in a better position than them, and the real gut punch is it’s not even like they’ve been bad any longer than we have.

    77. Philmelo

      Oh, the same Ben Simmons who missed his rookie season with foot injuries? LOL. I swear that if KP and Willy were half as injured as Embiid and Simmons you all would be complaining about how terrible our luck is. Do people really forget that Embiid has had two surgeries on his foot in his first two NBA seasons? That for all of his spectacular play he’s shown he can’t even finish out a schedule where he takes off every other game and might not even end up playing half a season’s worth because of his knee? As for the great Ben Simmons – here’s a guy who has a busted shot. You know how many 3 pointers he attempted in his college career in LSU? He attempted .01 per game.

    78. Ben R

      I think tanking next year would be a mistake. We need to start learning how to win. Porzingis is our future and probably better than anyone we draft this year or next year even if we tank. We need to focus on his development. We should tank this year, even though I’m afraid we won’t, because its so close and a very good draft class. After that we need to start building a team. Not with expensive veterans in free agency but with long term players that can grow together. Losing year after year and playing with d-leaguers stunts your growth. There is a reason all the Spurs picks overachieve and the Sixers and Kings picks flounder. You need a winning culture and other skilled players to learn from.

    79. Philmelo

      They’re about as good as we are now, just with those picks plus infinite seconds and all the cap flexibility in the world.

      They’re as good as we are now because they’ve been able to tank longer and we haven’t even begun to shed our dead veterans. After trading Noel I don’t buy for one second that Sixers have a brighter future until they produce a pick who can last anything remotely close to a season.

    80. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Knowing about Simmon’s foot issues and his busted shot makes one wonder if he’d be a top ten pick this year. But the Sixers are just sooo great and I envy them sooo much. Plus cheesesteaks.

    81. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Owen how hot is it and where are you?

      It’s about 90 in Aruba today but with a breeze.

    82. thenoblefacehumper

      They’re as good as we are now because they’ve been able to tank longer and we haven’t even begun to shed our dead veterans. After trading Noel I don’t buy for one second that Sixers have a brighter future until they produce a pick who can last anything remotely close to season.

      Dude, we just signed our “dead veterans.” Again, they have one more consecutive losing season than us. We don’t get any bonus points for losing while trying to win. If you assume Simmons and Embiid combine to produce absolutely nothing, then you can start to argue maybe we’re better off, and even then it’s disputable. That’s also a ridiculous assumption. It’s not like Porzingis has been a picture of health, or productivity for that matter, either.

      I think tanking next year would be a mistake. We need to start learning how to win. Porzingis is our future and probably better than anyone we draft this year or next year even if we tank. We need to focus on his development. We should tank this year, even though I’m afraid we won’t, because its so close and a very good draft class. After that we need to start building a team. Not with expensive veterans in free agency but with long term players that can grow together. Losing year after year and playing with d-leaguers stunts your growth. There is a reason all the Spurs picks overachieve and the Sixers and Kings picks flounder. You need a winning culture and other skilled players to learn from.

      http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/

      Well, there it is. So who, and for how much and how long?

    83. bobneptune

      Well, there it is. So who, and for how much and how long?

      Otto Porter is the only player there I would open the vault for…. young, Improving, very

      efficient.

    84. Philmelo

      Dude, we just signed our “dead veterans.”

      There isn’t a contract on this team that hampers it down the road beyond the Noah deal. Even Melo’s bullshit NTC will probably be waived in the offseason.

      If you assume Simmons and Embiid combine to produce absolutely nothing, then you can start to argue maybe we’re better off, and even then it’s disputable….It’s not like Porzingis has been a picture of health, or productivity for that matter, either.

      Let’s conduct a simple thought experiment shall we? If KP missed all of this season and last season while Willy missed his entire rookie year, would you even remotely begin to describe our team’s future with half positivity as you do the Sixers?

      Now, remember, for all of the bitching and whining about how soft and fragile KP is he’s managed to play 122 games in a season and half of NBA basketball with more minutes played than Russell, Jokic, or Turner. In minutes played Willy has already surpassed Embiid in minutes played by 10 despite just starting four games all season long.

      Well, there it is. So who, and for how much and how long?

      Ugh.

    85. MSA

      Meh, this next free agency doesn’t really have anyone worth spending big money.

      If we are committed to the young guys I would go after McAdoo.

      Not sure if the Warriors really want him and how much his decent production is a result of playing for them.

      Even JaVale McGee is looking like a good player these days.

    86. Philmelo

      Even JaVale McGee is looking like a good player these days.

      More proof of what playing with good teammates in a well designed system can do for a big man.

    87. thenoblefacehumper

      There isn’t a contract on this team that hampers it down the road beyond the Noah deal. Even Melo’s bullshit NTC will probably be waived in the offseason.

      You’re assuming that a) 3 more years of mediocre Courtney Lee at $13m AAV never becomes an issue and b) Melo will waive his NTC. I don’t know how you can be so sure of either of those things. As of now, those contracts are on the books and they’ll stay that way until they aren’t.

      Let’s conduct a simple thought experiment shall we? If KP missed all of this season and last season while Willy missed his entire rookie year, would you even remotely begin to describe our team’s future with half positivity as you do the Sixers?

      No, because we wouldn’t have the Lakers’ 2017 pick, a swap with the Kings if their pick is worse, the Kings’ unprotected 2019 pick, countless second round picks, and a clean cap sheet. We’d just be the Knicks with a few more reasons to be pessimistic. I don’t know what the point of this question was.

      Now, remember, for all of the bitching and whining about how soft and fragile KP is he’s managed to play 122 games in a season and half of NBA basketball with more minutes played than Russell, Jokic, or Turner. In minutes played Willy has already surpassed Embiid in minutes played by 10 despite just starting four games all season long.

      You have to expect unreasonably low levels of productivity from Embiid/Simmons/Saric to think we’re in a better spot. Maybe Embiid will never be healthy, sure, but it’s not like we’ve seen him in a season the Sixers actually care about yet. If they all suck, they have two surplus high picks on their way (Lakers and Kings) in addition to their own, which will also suck in this scenario because Embiid, Simmons, and Saric all completely flamed out.

    88. Ben R

      Well, there it is. So who, and for how much and how long?

      I’m not suggesting we sign anyone in free agency, unless we can get Porter or some other amazing opportunity presents itself. I’m just suggesting not to tank next year. I think we should resign Holiday for less than 4-5 million if we can, keep Lee, unless we can get a first or young player for him, trade for Rubio/draft a PG, try and trade Melo and then just try and win as many games as possible and probably miss the playoffs. I’m okay with not having a high pick next year if KP, Willy, and our rookie this year shows real growth and the culture starts to change. Tanking is trying to shortcut the system, just like signing a bunch of free agents. It rarely works and has no good endgame. We need to build a team slowly like Golden State and Utah. Teams that gradually got better by focusing on youth and improving every year.

    89. Cock Jowles, #1 Pythag. Wins Denialist

      Reub is a troll. He doesn’t get enough attention anywhere else and he takes it out on you. The more you feed him, the thirstier he’ll become. There’s really nothing else to say on the matter.

      Theo is the same thing. Ignore it and it will go away.

      Back on-point:

      Hernangomez should win ROY, but Brogdon or Saric will win because of PPG. You can blame it on the Knicks’ coaching staff for not giving Willy the 35 MPG he deserves. Yes, I think he should be the team’s starting center and should play minutes until his feet fall off.

      The Sixers are in a much better position because they don’t have Lee, Carmelo, and Noah eating $60M a year until the next decade. I don’t see how this is a matter of debate, even if Saric has disappointed, Embiid’s been hurt, and Simmons hasn’t seen a minute of game-time yet.

    90. Philmelo

      You’re assuming that a) 3 more years of mediocre Courtney Lee at $13m AAV never becomes an issue and b) Melo will waive his NTC.

      Actually, its a better bet to assume there will be demand for Courtney Lee on his current 13 million dollar deal in a market where JJ Reddick will fetch way more than there is that Joel Embiid has anything remotely resembling a healthy career where can play over 1,000 minutes an NBA season. Name me one big man with chronic foot problems who had anything resembling a healthy career with Embiid’s medical history. Rik Smits, Yao Ming, Gheorghe Muresan, etc. have all ended their careers short with better injury histories than Embiid has right now.

      I don’t know what the point of this question was.

      To illustrate the plain fact that for all of Philly’s tanking the only sustainable future they have is based on a system of future picks anchored by two basketball rookies who haven’t done shit.

      You have to expect unreasonably low levels of productivity from Embiid/Simmons/Saric to think we’re in a better spot.

      Unreasonably? LOL. Willy already has produced more minutes and win shares than the great Embiid. Yes, its true. Go look it up. What is actually unreasonable is the expectation that Embiid lasts. When Simmons plays he’ll have his own problems to deal with – including the fact that he has no jumper in an NBA game where the 3 ball is more and more important and a questionable handle.

    91. Philmelo

      The Sixers are in a much better position because they don’t have Lee, Carmelo, and Noah eating $60M a year until the next decade

      Does anyone really see those three contracts as stopping us from rebuilding this team?

    92. Ben R

      Let’s look at the Sixers. If they get the Lakers pick then that pretty much closes the gap between us and them but I wouldn’t trade KP and Willy for Embiid, Saric, Simmons and the Kings pick next year. It would be close but I think Embiid is way too much of a risk, Saric is okay, Simmons is a crap shoot and the Kings pick next year is likely in the 7-10 range since they’ll have no reason to tank next year.

    93. Bruno Almeida

      @106

      are you really gonna just ignore the fact that despite the media’s love for Embiid’s pointzz he’s actually by every indication a really, really good defender who’s much better than Willy in that department?

      and the injury argument is close to useless. KP might as well tear an achilles and spend seasons injured, we have no idea.

      and yes, having that much dead money on shit players will eventually cost the Knicks, when they make the 2017 and 2018 picks and have to re-sign KP and Willy. There’s no guarantee the Knicks won’t draft busts in those drafts and they will have zero flexibility to make other moves because of those terrible contracts, which is a problem Philly does not have yet.

    94. Philmelo

      are you really gonna just ignore the fact that despite the media’s love for Embiid’s pointzz he’s actually by every indication a really, really good defender who’s much better than Willy in that department?

      Are you going to ignore that Embiid is only a good defender when he plays? Something he’s never really done in his career. Let’s put something into context here. Embiid has only played two seasons of serious basketball in his life. He played 674 minutes of college basketball one year in Kansas, had his season cut short due to injury and got surgery. He’s played 786 minutes this season, is already suffering from ACL problems.

      and yes, having that much dead money on shit players will eventually cost the Knicks, when they make the 2017 and 2018 picks and have to re-sign KP and Willy.

      You mean Lee and Noah’s contract. Melo’s will be off the books by then.

    95. Philmelo

      Weren’t you guys bitching about Phil being too focused on cap space before when the Rubio deal didn’t go down?

    96. Ben R

      I think our cap situation is bad but I agree that it really doesn’t have much of a factor in how we move forward over the next couple years. If anything it will prevent our terrible management from screwing us up more. If we want, Lee and Thomas are movable and Melo will probably opt out of his last year so that just leaves Noah’s huge contract after next season. The focus needs to be not digging us into anymore of a hole.

      Sidenote: I think one of the worst parts of not getting Rubio is how totally unwatchable the final 25 games of this season will be. I really hope we make a move for him this summer.

    97. Philmelo

      Sidenote: I think one of the worst parts of not getting Rubio is how totally unwatchable the final 25 games of this season will be. I really hope we make a move for him this summer.

      Yeah, I think much of this complaining is just a result of fans who wanted a trade to go down. I just can’t keep up with it. One moment Phil is stupid for not taking on bad contracts to get rid of X player, the next moment Phil is stupid for the mess he’s made of our cap situation. There’s almost zero consistency here anymore.

      This season was a sunk one. The goal is to tank and shed our crappy contracts going into a first season of a rebuild.

    98. ptmilo

      There isn’t a contract on this team that hampers it down the road beyond the Noah deal.

      the criticism is that we have 3 players that are set to take up 35% of the 19-20 cap when they are likely to be worthless, replacement level players. Lee and Noah at 34 and Lance, who is already near replacement level, at 31. it’s one thing to do that when you are making a near term trade off to get value today, but the marginal production of those 3 today is completely worthless to a team like us. this is a function of misjudging the talent on this team and whether a few wins should matter. it’s clear that phil has consistently overestimated how good we are, probably amped by his belief that a system will mystically make a bunch of mediocre talent into a 50 win team, and probably also by overrating melo and rose. that mistake has already compounded a little because at least courtney lee could (probably) have been moved at the deadline to a team that could actually benefit from wins today. hopefully, we can make up for that in the offseason. pretty soon, though, he won’t be movable.

      drafting is hard and noisy; it’s very hard to tell who is skilled at drafting and who is lucky. same with the art of trying to pluck the next whitehead from obscurity. but one thing you can reliably control is to avoid knowingly overpaying players in years when a marginal win might matter in order to benefit in a year when the marginal win will be worth very little, or as our case turned out, have negative value. this is a big mistake. it’s not as bad as giving away all your picks for bad veterans, but it’s pretty bad.

    99. Frank

      I’m not mad that we didn’t trade for Rubio – even though he’s a savant in many ways that i think would’v been a good fit for Willy/KP. I’m just totally discouraged that something that was as easy to do as this trade (and by all accounts we wanted to do) was completely amateur-hour’d, leaving a completely demoralized team and young superstar-to-be (KP). Yes, it’ll help the tank, but that is, as we say, accidentanking.

      Literally there is nothing about this Phil/Mills partnership that inspires any confidence at all that they will be able to lead us out of this mess. The only thing they do well is draft, but even that strength is overwhelmed by their incompetence in every other way. What qualifies Steve Mills to be the GM of any team, by the way?

      I was one of the captains of Team Optimism but I have gone so far the other direction. Honestly, I’m on Team Indifference right now. I didnt’ even consider watching the game last night.

    100. Bruno Almeida

      dude, ok, you want to prove the point that the Knicks are better off than Philadelphia, we get it, there’s no need for so many gymnastics.

      People like me were arguing against the “let’s free cap space” in a rebuild, considering Melo and Lee specially would be gone. That is not the case anymore, so it became an issue again… Lee and Noah specially are sunken costs who will cost the Knicks some flexibility, and there’s absolutely zero indications that the Knicks core will grow up to be significantly better than the Philly core, outside of your personal belief.

    101. bobneptune

      A question: Could the Knicks tell Rose’s agent to see what Thibs would pay him for the last 20 odd game, then release him via a buyout discounting his salary by what Thibs agrees to pay him?
      Rose gets to play for a guy who wants him for the same money, Thibs gets him at a discount to his 2016 salary without giving any assets as a trial run, we get to replace him with Barker who is probably better for a successful tank, but at least he will try to run the offense as designed for KP and WHG and maybe we find he can play enough to be a future back up, or cut him at the end of the 20 game audition.

      Rose would be off the books either way next year, right…. and Dolan gets to save a few bucks… win, win…..

    102. geo

      I really, really don’t like this guy. He’s my most hated Knick in awhile. Even Melo gives me the impression of being a decent guy when he’s not being greedy, lazy or selfish. Rose just seems like a total immature tool.

      just wondering ras…have you noticed how much “eye rolling” rose does towards the rooks on the team…

      i wonder how big a deal that is amongst his teammates…personally, that shit would drive me nuts – especially considering the non team oriented type game he plays…

    103. geo

      Rose would be off the books either way next year, right…. and Dolan gets to save a few bucks… win, win…..

      i think the possibility for using rose for some kind of sign and trade situation may still be an option for phil…

    104. Bruno Almeida

      @119

      I like this plan, but Rose would have to clear waivers until the Wolves turn… as of now, the Nets, Suns, Lakers, Magic and Sixers would get a chance to claim him before the Wolves.

      I doubt any of those teams actually would claim him, but it might be a deterrent to the idea.

    105. bobneptune

      I like this plan, but Rose would have to clear waivers until the Wolves turn… as of now, the Nets, Suns, Lakers, Magic and Sixers would get a chance to claim him before the Wolves.

      I doubt any of those teams actually would claim him, but it might be a deterrent to the idea.

      Why would we care where he ends up? If the Sixers claim he, so what?

    106. Bruno Almeida

      well, the way you said it I understood that it would be a sort of agreement between Thibs and the Knicks.

      I don’t care either, if Rose stays he’s good for the tank, if he leaves it’s good for my mental health.

    107. Ben R

      There is a big reason to prefer the Sixers situation to the Knicks but it’s also a reason to prefer the Nets situation, they don’t have Phil and Dolan running things. With KP, Willy and a high pick this year we would be in great shape, cap be damned, possibly better than Philly and a lot of other teams. Unfortunately as long as Phil is in charge I have no faith that things will get better and as long as Dolan owns the team I have little faith Phil’s eventual replacement will be much better.

      The way Phil managed to completely mess up the Rubio trade is unforgivable. Not only is Phil lazy and terrible at free agency, he can’t even get simple things right, like trading two players straight up for each other when both teams want to trade. Add to this, we are not tanking and we will end up with a pick in the 10-13 range and we are quite screwed.

    108. 2FOR18

      Some post trade deadline observations:

      Nurkic and WCS were beasts in their respective first chances as undisputed starters. I still don’t get why Denver threw in a #1 in that deal.

      Cousins had the most efficient game of his career playing with AD and Jrue. Maybe we’ve been too hard on him. Remains to be seen for sure.

      melo in IDGAF mode is a sight to behold. In 30 possessions he had 16 misses and 5 turnovers. I’d like to know why he was still in the game with 2 minutes left down 15+.

      The Cavs seem to be the only team who realizes Rose never passes when he drives. Rose was frequently accosted by 3 or 4 Cavs at the rim last night. It was comical to see 3 knicks standing around wide open while the whole defense collapsed in on Rose.

      Even more comical is Philly keeping a dinosaur like Okafor over new age Noel. The stupidity of people in positions of power never ceases to amaze.

    109. bobneptune

      I don’t care either, if Rose stays he’s good for the tank, if he leaves it’s good for my mental health.

      My only idea is to get Baker lots of minutes that Rose drives head down to the basket with. That way KP and WHG could actually get 20 games with a guard that attempts to run an actual offense, even if he is crappier than Rose technically.

    110. 2FOR18

      Re: Saric. If anyone hasn’t noticed, he’s been tearing it up lately. He’s the main reason Philly has been not terrible.

      If they add ball/fultz and monk and sign a couple of veteran bangers they’re winning 50 next season. Anybody arguing that we’re in a better place than Philly should switch to following water polo.

    111. yellowboy90

      I will say this for Mills, at least according to reports he had a deal on the table that would’ve netted the knicks Kyle Lowry for shump and Thjr/2018 1st. Supposedly Dolan said no because he got some advice from a guy who he was in the process of negotiating with to become the team Pres.

    112. the don nelson era

      Even if it would have been a good deal in hindsight, I’m glad the Knicks began hanging onto their 1sts at some point. If Lowry were here, Melo would still be declining and god only knows what other insane win now shit they would have done between now and then.

    113. Bruno Almeida

      @128

      T.J McConnell is also actually legit good…

      they’re sort of polar opposites imo, Saric is super mega talented but still has to understand how to use his skills and athletic abilities; McConnell is limited athletically and skill wise, but he’s super controlled, poised and knows exactly what his limits are and how to make the best out of what he has.

      the Wizards can’t guard Saric today so far.

    114. ClashFan

      No, don’t release Rose. As much as I detest him (and he’s pretty much always been like this), make him stay on the team. Bench him in favor of Ron. Let him run home to Mommy again, only this time fine and suspend him as much as possible. Hurt his value (whatever it might be) for his next contract.

      Yeah, I’m vindictive. He’s making huge $$ but remains a selfish sack.

    115. Brian Cronin

      Even if it would have been a good deal in hindsight, I’m glad the Knicks began hanging onto their 1sts at some point. If Lowry were here, Melo would still be declining and god only knows what other insane win now shit they would have done between now and then.

      There is no way that this team should have been dealing first rounders for anyone outside of, like, Lebron James. Not only that, but Lowry also dramatically stepped up his play after the trade didn’t occur. At the time, Lowry wasn’t nearly as productive as he has been since. I have no regrets over them not making that deal. I mean, seriously, can you imagine this team dealing a 2018 first rounder? It’d be insanity!

    116. Brian Cronin

      Re: Saric. If anyone hasn’t noticed, he’s been tearing it up lately. He’s the main reason Philly has been not terrible.

      If they add ball/fultz and monk and sign a couple of veteran bangers they’re winning 50 next season. Anybody arguing that we’re in a better place than Philly should switch to following water polo.

      What’s interesting is that if even if you ignore all of the Sixers’ future picks (which you shouldn’t do, of course, but let’s just say that you do), the Sixers are playing roughly as well as the Knicks while filled with young players instead of mostly declining veterans and without getting anything from the #1 overall pick in the draft. So even if you ignore the thing that puts the Sixers in a much better situation than the Knicks going forward (all of those future picks), they’re still likely in a better situation going forward.

    117. Brian Cronin

      That said, that doesn’t mean that the Knicks are in a bad position. They have KP and Willy and hopefully a top ten pick in this year’s draft, so they should be in better shape going forward than they have been in nearly twenty years. Let’s hope Phil does a good job rebuilding around those assets!

    118. Bruno Almeida

      Okafor is so terrible, holy hell.

      the Sixers, despite him, are 17 ahead of the Wizards in the 3rd.

    119. KnickFanInCelticLand

      without getting anything from the #1 overall pick in the draft.

      …and they may never get any minutes from him….or at least effective minutes It is bad when a Jones fracture does not heal with a Titanium alloy screw for internal fixation. He must be about 4.5 months post-op and the fracture is not healed. They can apply a bone stimulator as a conservative option or do more surgery with a plate instead of a screw to stabilize an unstable bone.

    120. Brian Cronin

      Right, but that’s the point, even without him, they’re still roughly as good as the Knicks have been but with all young players instead of declining veterans! If you look at the two teams in a vacuum, not knowing anything about their future draft pick situation, you’re always gonna go for the young team over the team filled with declining veterans when you’re judging the future of the teams.

    121. 2FOR18

      It’s about hope and excitement. When we had Gallo and will and Pringles we had that. And linsanity was the best thing we had since the spreewell / camby days. And other than a brief interlude thanks to kidd and chandler, it’s been nothing but Iso purgatory.
      I’d trade the whole team for saric, embiid and Simmons and their picks.

      I mean how miserable is it to watch Melo get the ball with 10 seconds left in a quarter, walk the ball up, and Chuck up a 3?. He did that twice last night

    122. ClashFan

      @141
      I’ve seen it so many times, and so very very few go in, that it has become surreal.

      RE Okafor. Does the guy just not try for rebounds? With his space eating size, he should get 6/36 just by standing near the hoop.

    123. Bruno Almeida

      Okafor just doesn’t give a fuck, he would fit right in with this Knicks.

      he played 21 minutes and got 2 rebounds… Richaun Holmes who’s like 6’9” picked up 10 and had 5 blocks.

    124. 2FOR18

      Re: Eddie curry, I mean Okafor, there’s a famous quote by a coach that I wish I could remember.

      Coach says to a player that you could lay a corpse down on the court and 2 rebounds would land on him. So congratulations, you just got 1 more rebound than a dead man.

    125. Philmelo

      just wondering ras…have you noticed how much “eye rolling” rose does towards the rooks on the team…

      He’s fucking horrendous. With guys like him, Melo and Noah playing so many minutes is it any wonder that this team is so bad?

    126. Nick C.

      2for18 I believe the gist of the Eddy Curry quote is as follows : “What can Curry do to improve his rebounding?” Scott Skiles replied “jump. “

    127. Accidentank 2017

      I also want to be the first person to say that I believe the Toronto Raptors will beat Cleveland in the Conference Finals. They’re 10 men deep and everyone in their rotation is a plus defender. Their roster took last year’s Cavs to 6 games, and last year’s Cavs were a better group than this year’s Cavs. I like this year’s Raptors more than last year’s group, and with an ailing Kevin Love I don’t think Cleveland can beat them this year.

      Golden State and Toronto will be your NBA Finals.

    128. DRed

      The Cavs didn’t have their foot on the gas vs Toronto last year, but yeah, if they get to the Cavs all healthy they can give them a real series with Ibaka and Tucker.

    129. Philmelo

      I see you’ve been arguing too much with theo, you also lost your ability to read posts…

      I was just going to cut you off before it was said.

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