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Tuesday, March 19, 2019

Knicks Morning News (2016.06.29)

  • [New York Times] Sports of The Times: Early Entry? One and Done? Thank Spencer Haywood for the Privilege (Wed, 29 Jun 2016 09:00:21 GMT)
    In 1971, Spencer Haywood sued for the chance to join the draft without completing four years of college. Now he is pushing for the rule that allows underclassmen into the N.B.A. to bear his name.

  • [New York Times] AP Interview: Wade Prepares for Another Free Agent Summer (Wed, 29 Jun 2016 06:48:34 GMT)
    Dwyane Wade still has every hope of finishing his NBA career in the same manner that it began, wearing a Miami Heat uniform.

  • [New York Times] AP Source: Duncan Exercises Option, Still Mulling Future (Wed, 29 Jun 2016 03:54:54 GMT)
    A person with knowledge of the situation tells The Associated Press that San Antonio Spurs star Tim Duncan has exercised his contract option for next season but is still mulling his playing future.

  • [ESPN.com – New York Knicks] Wednesday's Knicks Links: Possible free agent center options (Wed, 29 Jun 2016 05:53:04 EST)
    Wednesday's Knicks Links: Possible free agent center options

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    228 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2016.06.29)

    1. Frank

      Berman reporting that the Knicks are in fact really interested in Bazemore and Courtney Lee. Sounds good to me- except that Bazemore is looking to start at $16MM+.

      Have still been thinking about that Rose trade. Obviously I think there is some possibility of upside with Rose, but like others I think we gave up too much. But the bigger issue (to me) is that it committed us (again) to yearly roster turnover. I mean, we signed 3 FAs last year and all of them will be gone. It’s possible that 7 out of 9 players who played the most minutes for us in 2015-16 will be off the roster this year — Afflalo, Lopez, Galloway, Calderon, DWill, Lance Thomas, and Grant. Out of those, the only player who probably is a lock to return is Galloway. So that means teaching up to 6 dudes a brand new offensive and defensive system.

      it’s basically the opposite of what any good team (excepting any team that gets Lebron) does. And depending on what the FA strategy is this week, it may happen again next year.

    2. Z-man

      So as far as FA C’s go:

      Noah: my personal fave, I think his injuries are recoverable, and when healthy, he’s the best of the available bunch. Can run the floor, rebound, protect the rim, defend on the perimeter, hit the open 15 footer, make FTs. Most importantly, one of the best passing big men of the past decade. Annoying in some ways but not a Dwight-level douchebag.

      Whiteside: Great stats, but something makes me a bit leery. Seems immature and to have a low b-ball IQ. The stats scream MAX PLAYER, but I feel ambivalent at that price. Whatever.

      Gasol: at a bargain price ($8-12 mill per), would be a very good stopgap. Put up decent stats. Smart and savvy, would be a great mentor for KP.

      Mozgov: Always liked him, was pissed when he was thrown into the Melo deal. The NBA may have passed him by a bit, not good at defending 3-pt shooters in the high p&r, but at the right price a decent fallback option.

      Horford: Not worth a max deal for out team, but certainly a very good player. I’ve always thought of him as sort of a tweener, but might be a good match w/ KP.

      Biyombo: Again, for how much? Can’t shoot FTs and still very raw in some ways. Not worth RoLo money in my book, and probably can’t be had for less.

      Howard: Yeah, he’s a douche and all that. Will never worth the max or close to it again, but at $12 million he’s a value player and is worth a look. If the NBA institutes a hack-a-Dwight rule, his value goes up.

    3. ptmilo

      Gasol: at a bargain price ($8-12 mill per), would be a very good stopgap.

      if you are not the spurs, this price is not happening.

      Howard: Yeah, he’s a douche and all that. Will never worth the max or close to it again, but at $12 million he’s a value player and is worth a look.

      $12 million for Howard? Maybe the Wolves will waive Towns and we can pick him up.

    4. Frank

      Noah – I can’t figure out what to make of his inability to make a layup. I mean, he shot 42% in the restricted area and 39% on layups. Is this like a Chuck Knoblauch / Steve Sax thing? And he used to be a semi-ok jumpshooter – like FG 40% on long 2’s. Not that I want him shooting long 2’s but at least teams would need to think about guarding him out there. His FT% was in the 70s for years, and then suddenly 60 and the 49% the last 2 years? It’s just bizarre.

      I assume that stuff is either mental or a mechanics issue — both of which are theoretically fixable. I mean, these guys are professional athletes – you don’t just forget how to shoot, do you? But between that and the injury history, I sure hope he comes cheap-ish. like <$15MM AAV without more than 2 years of commitment. Maybe you give him a 2 year deal with the 2nd year being a player option and perhaps some of the 2nd year not guaranteed? My feeling is that structure would maybe let us give him less in AAV. He won't be SO bad (barring injury) that he'd be a terrible value even in that 2nd year if he opts in, and then if he's ok maybe he would opt out, giving us even more cap room to pursue CP3 or Westbrook, while having KP slide to the 5 full time.

      I like Mozgov and Pachulia as second choices, assuming they come affordably. Neither should require more than 2 year deal, I wouldn't think, but you never know with this market.

      Whiteside makes me nervous too. I mean, he just said that he's not a basketball player, he's a businessman who plays basketball. If that's not a red flag, I don't know what is. But man are his stats awesome.

    5. Frank

      btw, since we seem to be contemplating becomings Bulls East, this is a really interesting article about how Chicago’s medical staff has been a total dumpster fire since 2011.

      basically – it makes you wonder whether just getting Rose (and potentially Noah and/or Gasol) away from that medical staff might be just the thing to get them performing at a high level again.

    6. massive

      With the rumors that D Wade will entertain offers from other teams since he and Miami can’t figure out a deal (basically Wade wants too much and he’s not good anymore), I don’t understand why Whiteside and the Knicks have not been linked. Whiteside has been linked to Dallas where everybody opted out, LAL where they’re 3 years from competing, and MIA where they’re old and can’t get the face of the franchise situated. He’s also been linked to Portland, but they really don’t need him when they have Mason Plumlee and Ed Davis. I can see Whiteside in Houston but that doesn’t make them contenders.

      Whiteside’s best situation is in New York City with the Knicks. Miami is old and would have been a lottery team without him. Dallas won’t be able to retain Parsons or D Will, and their plan is contingent on landing Mike Conley (which means they’re probably losing Dirk too). Jim Buss is the new Jim Dolan out in LA, and Portland is probably the only team he doesn’t make better since they have the best center rotation in basketball.

      In New York we already have Melo and D Rose who are likely recognized as stars by Whiteside. Then we have Porzingis who represents the best power forward situation Whiteside can play next to for the next four years. And then we’ll have room to add a starting shooting guard after he signs because his max starts at $22M. If we could move KOQ for a 2nd round pick, then we’d have a shot at maxing Whiteside and grabbing Lee or Bazemore. We might even get Lee for $8M AAV without trading O’Quinn. Rose, Lee, Melo, Porzingis, and Whiteside with Galloway, Holiday, Hernangomez, and O’Quinn as your top nine we be in the conference finals next year with room to improve as Rose expires and Porzingis gets better. Somebody get Whiteside on the phone.

    7. lavor postell

      @Frank

      http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/joakim-noahs-california-summer-could-make-bulls-a-contender/

      Still, Perris described 2014-15 as “a year of frustration,” as Noah was always feeling the effects of the offseason surgery he had on his left knee.

      Then we also know that last year he struggled with a shoulder injury which eventually required rest and then he re-injured it when he came back and had season ending surgery.

      Obviously none of this is an exact science and articles like the one above are quite often fluff pieces intended to boost a player’s value, be it by the team or the player’s agent heading in to a contract year. What we should keep in mind is that Chicago had a really poorly regarded medical staff which was axed this summer after repeated recurring injuries to multiple players throughout the year.

      Additionally many teams, imo, probably look at a guy like Deng who many thought was washed after the Bulls traded him. After a couple of nice bounce back years in Miami he looks like he still has plenty left in the tank, so teams may feel this reinforces the idea of the combination of shitty medical staff and Thibs played a larger part in what was perceived as a permanent decline.

    8. wetbandit

      Re: team continuity Frank is talking about above

      Teams often do better given time to ‘gel.’ But unless you want to be the Hawks, Raptors, or Grizzlies, you need the right core and then simmer. When the issues remain that top FA’s don’t want to come to you because you suck, then you have a few overhauls before you can contend. The thing is, you need to get better so that you can later get the free agents.

      I didn’ t think Grant/Afflalo/Melo/KP/RoLo was the team we wanted to start with, and a team of Rose/Bazemore/Melo/KP/Noah might just be good enough to turn heads later on.

    9. Frank

      @6 – sounds good to me–
      My guess is we’d have to send O’Quinn to pay Courtney Lee appropriately. Perhaps after that Thomas would even sign on for the EB exception – then you’d have 9 guys who are actual NBA players, and could take flyers on other UDFAs or vets minimums for the other spots. (plus we’d have the room exception)

      But that’d mean that would be our team going forward. No CP3/RW/KD/Steph pipe dreams. That’d be ok with me.

    10. massive

      My (realistic) game plan for the summer would be to sign Bazemore and then grab up Joakim Noah. If David Lee takes the minimum, you give it to him and run away smiling. Galloway is the only free agent of ours I want back for basketball reasons. I’d like to see D Will back because the fast breaks with Rose pushing it up and D Will finishing off alley oops would be intense highlight basketball and part of me wants to see huge dunks in the 2nd quarter of basketball games.

      But yeah, if we can add Bazemore, Noah, and Galloway that gives us a shot at being a top ten defensive team with all of Noah, Bazemore, Galloway, and Porzingis expected to get 28 MPG and with Melo’s ability to at least not get lit up by anybody in the league. Offensively this team is bound to struggle unless Rose figures out how to be league average in terms of efficiency and even then Noah’s below average efficiency kills our shot at being good on that end. For offensive purposes, I wouldn’t mind adding a guy like Eric Gordon because he’s a guy we can count on for great 3 point shooting and a good TS/eFG%, but he’s not liked by any metrics and won’t fit the budget considering we should prioritize better players. He’s essentially what people think Jamal Crawford is; a good bench scorer who offers little else of value.

      I know we won’t do it, but I’d give Baze $15M, Mahinmi $8M, and Gordon the rest of the cash to be my 6th man. I think that’s a significant improvement on what we had last year assuming we retain Galloway. I’d also not be afraid to start Galloway at the two, max Whiteside, and sign EG to be the 3rd guard.

    11. massive

      Another thing to keep in mind is Oladipo’s free agency. If KD signs that one and one, he and Russ will be free agents at the same time as Oladipo and OKC is already paying Kanter and Adams 8 figures. The truth of the matter is KD and Russ will not be members of the Oklahoma City Thunder after next season, but they can’t max out all three of those guys which is what it is going to take to keep them. I’d be watching Oladipo’s development next season closely if I couldn’t get a long term answer at the 2.

    12. lavor postell

      I know per game stats are frowned upon here, but Bazemore averaged 11.6 PPG, 5.1 RPG and 2.3 APG in 27.8 MPG.

      Why are we giving this guy $15m? Really feel like he’s going to be a big overpay this summer.

    13. Frank

      I know per game stats are frowned upon here, but Bazemore averaged 11.6 PPG, 5.1 RPG and 2.3 APG in 27.8 MPG.

      Why are we giving this guy $15m? Really feel like he’s going to be a big overpay this summer.

      $15MM this summer is analogous to probably $10MM last summer — not only because the cap is higher but also because the floor is going up so much — just so much $ to spend. Aminu was signed to an AAV of ~$8MM last year, which is probably equivalent to $12MM in this year’s dollars, and that is widely considered to be a good contract now. One could argue that they are equivalent defensively (Baze can prob guard 1-3 whereas Aminu is probably 2-4) but that Bazemore offers a lot more offensively.

      I don’t think it’s that bad. I just wish he were more of a knockdown shooter.

      Honestly, I’d rather have Courtney Lee.

    14. lavor postell

      I don’t think it’s that bad. I just wish he were more of a knockdown shooter.

      Honestly, I’d rather have Courtney Lee.

      Agreed

    15. massive

      Courtney Lee is on the wrong side of thirty and gave you his production from the 2 last year. Lee and Bazemore produced at about the same level, but for different positions as Baze played the 3 and Lee played the two. If you allow Bazemore to play most of his minutes at the 2 while acknowledging that the positions are pretty much the same in today’s NBA (but a two is expected to do less), then you’ve made Bazemore a better player on the same production. 20 and 10 for a center is great. 20 and 10 from a power forward is excellent. Same concept works for 2s and 3s, except you’d probably want a higher assist rate from your off guard.

      That’s pretty much why I like Bazemore more than Lee. He’s younger and played his season last year at the 3. If we get the same production from Bazemore but put him at the two, not only did we improve on Afflalo, but we improved upon ATL’s Bazemore.

    16. ptmilo

      Given that we’ve done the Rose trade and erased 1.5 of our scarce assets that could have generated value beyond 2016-17, and that we know we are not going to intentionally sacrifice this year, I hope we wildly overpay Noah to a one year deal and use what’s left to sign a lower risk deal that won’t likely be an albatross in the out years. Jared Dudley if the price is right.

    17. SJK

      If you allow Bazemore to play most of his minutes at the 2 while acknowledging that the positions are pretty much the same in today’s NBA (but a two is expected to do less), then you’ve made Bazemore a better player on the same production. 20 and 10 for a center is great. 20 and 10 from a power forward is excellent. Same concept works for 2s and 3s, except you’d probably want a higher assist rate from your off guard.

      I’m not saying you are wrong, but what are you basing this off of?

    18. reub

      Whiteside jumps at you as a max guy who could be undervalued even at his $22M max. Of course, he could be a bust too.

    19. massive

      Essentially the idea of what each guy on a court is required to do on average and just a valuation of each player’s contribution. Say if the average rebounder at the 2 gets 4 per 36 and your guy gets 6. In that case, you have a better rebounder than average in a game where possessions are finite. Now say you take your guy who averages 6 boards per 36 and play him at the 3, where the average 3 gets 7. You now have a below average rebounder at that position and he has to excel in other areas to make up for that possession he’s giving up to opposing teams.

      Now say you have a guy who plays the 3 and averages 15, 6, and 3 per 36 and the average 2 gets you 15, 4, and 4. If you move him to the 2, he gains value because he’s a better rebounder with everything else being about equal. And then when you look at the efficiency stats and see your guy has a higher TS and eFG then the average two, it adds to his value where as at the 3 he may or may not be an average rebounder. Moving his production to a place where he has a competitive advantage makes him more productive. That’s my reasoning.

    20. johnno

      “I assume that stuff is either mental or a mechanics issue — both of which are theoretically fixable.”
      Mechanics issue?!? Have you ever seen how Noah shoots? What is mind-boggling to me is that he is the son of a world renowned professional athlete. He had the best of everything — including coaching — growing up. He went to top notch prep schools. And no one along the way said to his father, “This kid’s got elite athlete genes and he looks like he might grow to be 7′ tall, but his shooting form looks like that of an eight year old who just picked up a basketball for the first time. I think that you should spend a few bucks and hire Dave Hopla to teach him how to shoot.” If he’s healthy, I’d love to have him, but he’s got maybe the ugliest jump shot in the entire league. By the way, if you’ve never seen it, find the video of his father singing “Redemption Song.” Joakim’s in it. It’s pretty funny.

    21. johnno

      “Keep in mind we need a capable backup pg can’t go maxing our capspace without one”
      Somewhere in Europe there’s got to be a Pablo Prigioni 2.0 who would like to spend the last few years of his career in the NBA . I think that that’s where they should look for a backup PG.

    22. reub

      There is so much money chasing such a limited amount of good players that the salaries are going to be very high. It might take a max offer to get anyone decent. Begley is reporting that Crabbe will get at least 3 max offers, including the Nets and Sixers. If we’re going to be frugal we’ll end up with nobody and have a mediocre team. What if we have to pay Bazemore $20$M but he’s the only good SG that we can get? Do we do it?

      If this is the environment it might just pay to offer the max to someone whose talent is commensurate with their price like KD, Horford or Whiteside. Unless Noah comes at a bargain.

    23. ClashFan

      Sergio Rodriguez!?
      :-)

      Supposedly Trey Burke is on the block if you’re looking for a cheap, young backup PG.

    24. Cock Jowles, Not An Orthopaedic Surgeon

      In this thread we’ve already seen people claim that Noah’s shot mechanics could be fixed (he’s 31 years old ffs) and that the Knicks’ medical staff could make two injury-prone veterans less injury-prone.

      Okay.

    25. ClashFan

      I don’t think the Knicks will look to spend big $ on a C. Let some other sucker sign Noah unless he’s willing to bite on a one year deal. Otherwise, the Knicks are just doubling down on a dumb trade.

      Wait out the market and see what kind of offers Mozgov and Pachulia get. Maybe swoop in on one of those as a backup to Porzingis for a year while they take a look at Hernangomez.

      OTOH, so many teams have so much cash that even those guys might get north of $10m per…

    26. thenamestsam

      I am really, seriously confused by the love for Joakim Noah. His last 3 years –

      2013-2014: 80 games, 35.3 MPG; .531TS%; 20.0 PER; .190 WS/48; 4.57 RPM (2nd among Cs)
      2014-2015: 67 games, 30.6 MPG; .482TS%; 15.3 PER; .130 WS/48; 1.09 RPM (20th among Cs)
      2015-2016: 29 games, 21.9 MPG; .406TS%; 14.1 PER; .079 WS/48; 0.56 RPM (34th among Cs)

      I see a guy who has always had issues with his body and who was put under a very serious amount of strain by Thibs and who, as he passes his athletic peak, is rapidly falling off a cliff. I look at those stats and see a guy who I’d be very lucky to get 60 games (his career average is only 64 games) of average NBA starting C play from next year, and every year after that the prognosis only looks worse.

      If he wanted a 1 year make good contract, then I think that makes sense for both sides, but I can’t possibly look at the trend lines of his past few years and think giving this guy a multi year deal for big money makes any sense at all. We have to at least acknowledge the possibility that he’s completely done as a starting caliber C right?

    27. Cock Jowles, Not An Orthopaedic Surgeon

      @29

      if you look into his heart what will you see

      hint: you will see that he is a r_____ r______

    28. Frank

      In this thread we’ve already seen people claim that Noah’s shot mechanics could be fixed (he’s 31 years old ffs) and that the Knicks’ medical staff could make two injury-prone veterans less injury-prone.

      Since I’m the “people” you’re talking about:

      1) I’m not saying change Noah’s shot into Ray Allen’s shot. He’s had the same crappy-looking shot his whole career, yet until the 2014 season he shot 75% from the line (on many attempts) and was able to hit a shot from more than 6 inches away. So he’s already shown the ability to do it. It’s probably not injury or growing old. Steve Nash could probably shoot 90% from the FT line when he’s 80. A lot of players actually get better at FT shooting later in their careers. So it must be something else that he’s doing differently.

      2) If you read the article that I linked to, perhaps you would think differently about the injury thing. Funny how good training staffs can make people stay healthy (like the one Hornacek just came from in Phoenix), and crappy ones (which ours might be) have players that keep getting hurt over and over again.

    29. Grocer

      How about we don’t blow huge percentages of the cap on aging questionable players and instead spend small amounts of money on questionable players who might develop into better players. Accept that Rose will likely suck, that we made this trade for cap space next year and to tank this year and we’ll be preserving that cap space. I’d love to see some cheap partially guaranteed 2+2(team) contracts at 1.5-3/AAV. Try and develop guys and keep them around. Building a team is more successful than buying one.

      @8 those are all much much better teams than the Knicks have been in forever. Please don’t throw me in that briar patch.

    30. DRed

      I’m not saying you are wrong, but what are you basing this off of?

      If you think about it, the 2 guard is the short guy on the team who isn’t good enough to be the point guard. There are like 4 or 5 really good 2 guards in the NBA (which is why it was insane if the Bulls were actually thinking about trading Jimmy Butler). League wide I think SG’s are slightly more efficient scoring and slightly better at rebounding with about half the assists of PGs

    31. ClashFan

      @33
      Agreed!

      I don’t mind an aging player on a 1 year deal. Noah on 2 years or more would be foolish.

      I’m even a bit worried about Courtney Lee on a 4 year deal. Someone’s gonna offer him 4, so if the Knicks like him they might have to go that long.

    32. Cock Jowles, Not An Orthopaedic Surgeon

      1) I’m not saying change Noah’s shot into Ray Allen’s shot. He’s had the same crappy-looking shot his whole career, yet until the 2014 season he shot 75% from the line (on many attempts) and was able to hit a shot from more than 6 inches away. So he’s already shown the ability to do it. It’s probably not injury or growing old. Steve Nash could probably shoot 90% from the FT line when he’s 80. A lot of players actually get better at FT shooting later in their careers. So it must be something else that he’s doing differently.

      2) If you read the article that I linked to, perhaps you would think differently about the injury thing. Funny how good training staffs can make people stay healthy (like the one Hornacek just came from in Phoenix), and crappy ones (which ours might be) have players that keep getting hurt over and over again.

      I’m not saying players don’t change and I’m not saying medical staff doesn’t matter.

      I’m saying that a player that old is not going to change his shot and a player injured so much already is not going to dip into some Phoenix Suns 2008 medical staff fountain of youth.

      Everyone wants to be an optimist, but it’s a fool’s errand to expect any kind of positive change in playing mechanics out of a 31-year-0ld who has never been a good shooter.

    33. d-mar

      @29

      if you look into his heart what will you see

      hint: you will see that he is a r_____ r______

      Ricky Rubio?
      Richard Roundtree?

    34. Frank

      Everyone wants to be an optimist, but it’s a fool’s errand to expect any kind of positive change in playing mechanics out of a 31-year-0ld who has never been a good shooter.

      I’m not asking for a positive change – i”m asking for going back to the usual! Or even an age-corrected usual. Just not a total drop off in things that even a 38 year old should be able to do, like hit free throws and layups.

      I dunno – I’m ambivalent on Noah. I’m just not sure what the better option is, short of maxing Whiteside. But there’s been zero buzz about NYK and Whiteside. A short deal with Noah that’s not too expensive might be the best for both parties.

    35. Name is Bron - James Bron

      if you look into his heart what will you see
      hint: you will see that he is a r_____ r______

      Ricky Rubio?
      Richard Roundtree?

      Robert Randolph

    36. Cock Jowles, Not An Orthopaedic Surgeon

      I’m not asking for a positive change – i”m asking for going back to the usual! Or even an age-corrected usual. Just not a total drop off in things that even a 38 year old should be able to do, like hit free throws and layups.

      Oh, he’s definitely got something going on with that shooting drop-off. It’s this board’s M.O. to think that those problems will magically disappear with our complementary pieces, coaching staff, medical staff… because this is a top-notch organization. Knicks! Knicks! Knicks!

    37. chrisk06811

      Everyone has cap room to spend, but I’m wondering how this is going to play out for teams that wait. Lets say 30 teams have $30M each to spend only on FAs. Thats $900M. The top 10 guys are going to take about $200M of that (KD, DeRozan, Whiteside, Beal, Batum, Drummond, Batum, Fournier, Conley and Wade). Add in the next 20 guys @ $15M each (Howard, Rondo, Biz, etc). Now you’ve up to $500M. Most teams have 5+ slots to fill, if 3 avg $1m each, that’s almost another $100M. So, after the top 30 guys get paid, you have about $300M left to spend (assuming some teams go over and pay the tax offset by others staying under).

      So, lets say Whiteside, Drummond, Noah and Horford sign early. What does that do to the price of Biz / Zaza / guys like that? does it drive it up because they are getting scarce, or do teams start to balk because they’ve committed elsewhere?

    38. lavor postell

      Idk where the Knicks rank league wide in terms of medical staff performance, but there’s been a very noticeable improvement in that aspect since Phil took over. Whether that’s sheer luck or intentional, I wouldn’t be able to say for certain, but it’s been much better than whatever the fuck was going on before that.

      a player injured so much already is not going to dip into some Phoenix Suns 2008 medical staff fountain of youth.

      Idk man. Phoenix’s medical staff is wild. If Noah went there he’d probably be back to normal and give you 70+ games again. They’ve worked some real miracles.

    39. Cock Jowles, Not An Orthopaedic Surgeon

      Noticeable? You mean, like… different players on the roster?

      JR, Felton, Shumpert, THJ, Chandler, Stoudemire, Prigioni, Bargnani, Kenyon Martin, Udrih, Jeremy Tyler, Metta World Peace, Toure Murry, Cole Aldrich, Shannon Brown, Earl Clark, Chris Smith

      Those are the players on the Knicks in 2013-14 who are no longer on the team. That’s 17 out of 18.

    40. DRed

      How about we don’t blow huge percentages of the cap on aging questionable players and instead spend small amounts of money on questionable players who might develop into better players.

      Begone with your witchcraft, heretic

    41. GoNyGoNYGo

      @41 – You’re approaching this similar to me. Yesterday I identified that the top-30 players are going to get the lion’s share of the money. If you don’t pay up, you get shut out. I’m sure, when Phil makes his moves, that everyone here’s going to yell “He overspent on _____”. But that’s what he MUST do. The bargains come at the end, when the money dries up and players that thought they were going to make a killing find themselves scrambling for work. JR was in this boat last year. It’s the same boat that Ryan Fitzpatrick is in with the Jets.

      I anticipate that they spend big either at center or at SG and then try to find nice pieces at the end. The challenge is whether to hold on to some cash to pay a little more than the next team for the leftovers. I advise not.

      If I were in Phil’s shoes I would overspend on a guy I really want and need, be it Bazemore, Noah, Whiteside, whomever. Then I would overspend on the second guy too and take the leftovers to fill out the roster with the Sasha Vujacic’s that are out there.

      Oh, and I would resign Galloway and go over the cap to do so. I think he’s an ideal backup guard and I look for further improvement.

    42. DRed

      Chandler missed a bunch of games for Phoenix, right? And one of Horny’s years didnt’ everyone get hurt?

    43. wetbandit

      JR, Felton, Shumpert, THJ, Chandler, Stoudemire, Prigioni, Bargnani, Kenyon Martin, Udrih, Jeremy Tyler, Metta World Peace, Toure Murry, Cole Aldrich, Shannon Brown, Earl Clark, Chris Smith

      Ain’t a looker in the bunch. (Except Cole sans mouthguard)

    44. supernova

      Anyone know who the best player is likely to be in next year’s draft? Because if we’re seriously considering adding Noah then yeah, this will be one tanktastic year to look forward to. What other injury riddled, declining players can we go after.

    45. Donnie Walsh

      if you look into his heart what will you see
      hint: you will see that he is a r________ r_______

      He’s a rosy reub?

    46. Donnie Walsh

      What other injury riddled, declining players can we go after.

      Brandon Roy could solve all of our backcourt needs!

    47. wetbandit

      How about we don’t blow huge percentages of the cap on aging questionable players and instead spend small amounts of money on questionable players who might develop into better players.

      Except the young guys that are on the optimistic side of “questionable” are the Bazemores, Fourniers and Crabbes, who will be getting paid too. I’d rather pay than get nothing at all, because then we’d suck again, and then no one will want to sign with us, then we have to make the same decision again.

    48. wetbandit

      Fact: People will always get paid more if they’re coming to a losing big-market team.

    49. Name is Bron - James Bron

      if you look into his heart what will you see
      hint: you will see that he is a r________ r_______

      Pessimist: Rajon Rondo
      Optimist: Rajon Rider or Rough Rondo

    50. wetbandit

      And by the way, “zero buzz” about a signing means nothing to Phil’s Knicks. Because I certainly did not see the Hornacek signing coming, along with the big Rose and Tyson Chandler trades, and almost everything else.

    51. DRed

      @NYPost_Berman 3m3 minutes ago
      Hornacek says center probably bigger priority than shooting guard in free agency. Have enough scorers

      LO

      L

    52. DRed

      The Knicks currently have 5 men on the roster, and of those 5 only 1 (Melo) can be plausibly described as good at scoring.

    53. lavor postell

      Those are the players on the Knicks in 2013-14 who are no longer on the team. That’s 17 out of 18.

      Didn’t realize 2013/14 was the only season in Knicks history where they dealt with a lot of injuries.

    54. lavor postell

      @DRed

      I would tend to believe the opposite of the noise Phil and Hornacek have been making lately about center and backup point being the priorities. Phil has tended to say a lot of shit publicly and then do the opposite of when it came time to act (i.e. hiring Hornacek as HC instead of somebody he was familar with).

    55. Cock Jowles, Not An Orthopaedic Surgeon

      Didn’t realize 2013/14 was the only season in Knicks history where they dealt with a lot of injuries.

      My point is that it’s virtually impossible to tell whether their “new” medical staff has made difference when you have nearly complete roster turnover and then two years of data. These are complex, living, breathing organisms we’re talking about.

      Do we even know that the key players on the medical staff have changed?

    56. lavor postell

      Do we even know that the key players on the medical staff have changed?

      We don’t but Phil mentioned it several times as a key area of focus when he came in.

      You’re right though we don’t know, but whatever they’re doing seems a hell of a lot more normal than what was happening before when I remember they had Shump lifting before a game and dumb shit like that.

    57. Cock Jowles, Not An Orthopaedic Surgeon

      when I remember they had Shump lifting before a game and dumb shit like that.

      That is unbelievably stupid. Did that really happen?

    58. d-mar

      Oh my god the Knicks are so high on that list. Please, gimme that O/U at 41 wins. Please.

      Jowles, just curious, if you bet let’s say $500 on the under, and the Knicks surprised everyone and won 47 games, would you be happy (because, after all, you’re a Knicks fan) or sad because a) you lost $500 and b) you were proven wrong.

      Inquiring minds want to know….

    59. Frank

      But you’re not an orthopedic surgeon so what do you really know?

      it boggles my mind that there is so much skepticism on this board that it’s really important to have a good orthopedic opinion and a strong training staff. That this has become like a joke to THCJ and apparently massive.

      it MATTERS to know the details of an injury and a surgery, and the rehab that follows. what sorts of things are being done to prevent injury.

      it reminds me of what Tom Friedman wrote in the NY Times today about the Brexit (emphasis mine):

      A major European power, a longtime defender of liberal democracy, pluralism and free markets, falls under the sway of a few cynical politicians who see a chance to exploit public fears of immigration to advance their careers. They create a stark binary choice on an incredibly complex issue, of which few people understand the full scope — stay in or quit the E.U.

      It’s just not (always) as simple as one would like it to be. Details matter.

      I’m not saying I know the answer. I’m just saying there are people who have devoted their entire lives to studying these details, who might just be able to give a more informed opinion about injuries, past, present, and future, than what one might think just off the cuff.

    60. Cock Jowles, Not An Orthopaedic Surgeon

      1) Lose $500 plus what I would earn on the bet? Nah, no scenario makes that okay with me. I’m a young homeowner in an expensive city. Daddy needs new siding more than vicarious joy through James Dolan and #StayMe7o. Sorry if that offends your delicate fan sensibilities.

      2) Prognosis matters, but so does production history. We’re not talking about Adrian Peterson being an MVP candidate and then suffering a catastrophic injury. We’re talking about a guy who has not been good for five years, has had three major surgeries in that time, and has been a league-worst player for the last two years. You act like it’s unreasonable to take that information and bet that he will be terrible again this year.

    61. massive

      I was just making a joke. I have faith in Derrick Rose’s ability to play competently because from the film, the only thing that Rose has lost is a couple inches off his vertical. He’s still faster than most guys and he still has a great ball handle. The only thing that keeps him from success is his decision making ability. I like your posts. I like what pretty much everybody has to say on this website give or take a few posters not privy to advanced metrics.

      From everything I’ve seen, read, and heard that wasn’t an advanced number Derrick Rose was just trying to get through the season last year and that this year we can expect a more aggressive D Rose. I think he is going to be a better player this season, I just don’t know how much better. I hope we can get a .520 TS%, 7 assists per 36, a WS/48 of .120, and 70 games from Derrick Rose. I also understand it is not likely to get that from D Rose.

      I just think THCJ’s username is hilarious.

    62. ruruland

      Except in the most likely context Dred is referring to, centers are the best scorers because most of their attempts are at the rim. Guards and wings, by in large, are the worst scorers.

      So, Hornacek was wrong to say they have enough scorers, but right to want another guy who will play close to the rim. That’s what wins. Rim guys.

    63. BigBlueAL

      I think Hornacek meant that the SG FA class is alot weaker than the Center FA class. In that regard it makes sense, rather spend less money on a decent SG like Courtney Lee than max out someone like Bazemore. There are more Centers worth spending big money on this summer than SG’s, then again Noah is not one of them although last season for as poor as he played he still was an excellent rebounder, had a career high in Offense Reb % and total Reb %.

    64. Frank

      We’re talking about a guy who has not been good for five years, has had three major surgeries in that time, and has been a league-worst player for the last two years.

      First of all, I’m not just talking about Rose, but also Noah, and any number of players with an injury history that are totally written off here as being a gigantic risk without those doing the writing off knowing anything about the details.

      And re: Rose, he’s been bad for 2 years – 2014-15 and 2015-16. Five seasons ago he had a WS/48>0.200 until he got injured. Four seasons ago he missed the season. Three seasons ago he played 10 games before tearing his meniscus. Two seasons ago he was not great, reinjured the meniscus. 1 season ago (15-16) he was playing with double vision for half the season, overall didn’t play great but there was an uptick of sorts as the year went on.

      he had one major surgery – the ACL.
      The meniscus injuries are not considered major surgeries if you ask the people who do them. And there are studies that suggest that players return to their previous level of athleticism after meniscus injuries (not articular cartilage injuries that require micro fracture or other more extensive surgery — they do terribly. I’m talking about just the meniscus).

      Here’s a good breakdown of how different some of these cases are and what happened to Rose:

    65. Frank

      Someone get on the phone with David Berri we need a wp number for medical staffs!

      That actually would be really useful!

    66. JK47

      If Derrick Rose plays decent this year, then signs a max contract, then blows out a knee again right after signing the max contract, I don’t think I’ll ever stop screaming. I’ll just be a guy in a straight jacket in a padded cell screaming all day long.

      “Yeah, that’s JK. He hasn’t stopped screaming since December 2017. He even screams in his sleep. Just the same scream over and over, I TOOOOOLD YOU SOOOOOOOO, I TOOOOOOLD YOU SOOOOOOOOO, I TOOOOOOLD YOU SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO”

    67. massive

      In other bad news, the Knicks will be meeting with Jamal Crawford. We chose the wrong former Knicks.

    68. DRed

      We need guys to put the ball through the hoop. At the rim, from the arc, midrange-wherever.

    69. lavor postell

      In other bad news, the Knicks will be meeting with Jamal Crawford. We chose the wrong former Knicks.

      The bar for bad news seems off

    70. chrisk06811

      Cock J’s new name made me LOL. not like I used to ROTF LOL like in the Jim C / Silverman days, but LOL none the less.

    71. GoNyGoNYGo

      @80 DRed, sometimes?

      @75 Massive, I think that Jamal, on a 1-year deal, isn’t a bad idea.

      As far as medical staffs are concerned, I think it’s a big deal. A bad team can destroy a player and thereby a team for a long time by making bad decisions.

    72. d-mar

      Lose $500 plus what I would earn on the bet? Nah, no scenario makes that okay with me. I’m a young homeowner in an expensive city. Daddy needs new siding more than vicarious joy through James Dolan and #StayMe7o. Sorry if that offends your delicate fan sensibilities.

      No, I’m not offended, just trying to get a handle on your perspective. Seems to me it’s much more important for you to be right about things, and if you turned out to be wrong (on Derrick Rose, e.g.) just wondering if you would be somewhat happy (like most fans) that the Knicks exceeded expectations. My guess is not.

    73. JK47

      The problem with Rose exceeding expectations is the risk of the Knicks giving him a max contract extension. Hoping Derrick Rose stays healthy and productive for one season is not a great bet, but giving him a big contract extension and hoping he stays healthy and productive for many seasons is basically franchise suicide. That is the scenario I fear most, that Rose stays sort of healthy, plays 65 games and puts up a bunch of pointz with mediocre efficiency then gets awarded with a mega-max contract.

    74. MSA

      The worst eFG% ever belongs to the 98-99 Bulls at .424.

      If we sign Crawford and Noah I think we have a real shot to make history!

    75. Z

      First of all, I’m not just talking about Rose, but also Noah, and any number of players with an injury history that are totally written off here as being a gigantic risk without those doing the writing off knowing anything about the details.

      I remember having a discussion with Mike K back in 2009 (when DeJuan Blair slipped to the 2nd round) about valuing a doctors opinion more than a statisticians opinion in evaluating prospects. I argued the former, he argued the latter. Blair peaked, statistically, his rookie year (when he was 20 years old) and hasn’t made much of an impact in the league since. So victory for the doctors!

      That said, with regard to the Knicks, it is hard to argue that our resident non-orthopaedic surgeon really needs a medical degree. Let’s look at the last time you two discussed this issue:

      July, 2010: Knicks sign Amar’e Stoudemire to 5 year $100,000,000 contract.

      Jowles: “This is a frightening signing if it doesn’t snare LeBron. Wetting my pants in fright here.”

      Frank: “I’m not sure what else you would want in a max player. He’s 27, is durable despite all rumors to the contrary, and is probably the best finisher in the game. One could easily argue that he’s a top 8 player in the league, and if looking for the most durable, youngest, and potentially available star out there, is probably #2 behind Lebron.”

      http://knickerblogger.net/knicks-sign-amare/#comments

      So, victory for the stat-head!

      Score: 1-1

    76. massive

      Jamal Crawford is pretty bad and he was playing next to the greatest PG of the last couple generations (which should make you a better player). Hard pass since we have Derrick Rose.

    77. marechal

      Rule #1 of being an NBA gm

      Sign players likely to be healthy for the contract term

      Except when the players are so bad that you are better off having them hurt (Bargnani, Andrea; Rose, Derrick).

    78. SJK

      re: Crawford and Noah, was listening to a RealGM podcast w/ Danny Leroux Chris Herring and they brought up a great point about the Knicks and how their signings reflect plans for the future: until we know what the terms of the contracts are it’s impossible to evaluate both the contracts themselves as well as the team’s long term vision.

      For instance, people are understandably upset about the reported interest in Crawford and (to a lesser extent) Noah. But if we end up signing Crawford to a 1 year deal at 10 million or Noah to a 2 year/24 million deal, then the handwringing is unjustified. If they end up being long term, more expensive deals, bring out the pitchforks. Until we know the specifics, it’s all speculation and there’s no need to condemn the deals before they’re made.

      For the record, I’d be fine with Crawford on a 1 year deal as our first guard off the bench — someone’s gonna have to play for us. I’d also be okay with Noah on a two year deal (at the absolute most) similar to Lopez’s cap figure. We’ll see what happens.

    79. massive

      Big fella there is no reason to sign Jamal Crawford to anything over the vet minimum. He’s bad at basketball.

    80. Grocer

      Except the young guys that are on the optimistic side of “questionable” are the Bazemores, Fourniers and Crabbes, who will be getting paid too. I’d rather pay than get nothing at all, because then we’d suck again, and then no one will want to sign with us, then we have to make the same decision again.

      Thats very much not what I meant. Hard pass on those guys too. Overpaying for free agents gives you a ceiling of mediocrity and leads to seasons like every single one we’ve had since Ewing. This is not a winning strategy. Instead let’s keep doing what we did last year. Pick up young guys off the scrap heap, except give them longer team friendly deals so we’re not shit out of luck if we find the next Whiteside.

      You can’t win in a salary capped league by overpaying for production. If the market is very unfavorable to your team, like this year’s is, then stay the fuck out of it.

      We had a .500 team last year till it was derailed by injury and silly coaching caught up with us, and now Phil’s blown that up. I really hope we grab Crawford for one year, I feel a tank coming! Best thing for the franchise.

      Also, I’m super confused by all the people who want to win now at any cost. Two years ago this board was strongly in favor of a deep rebuild. No patience I guess.

    81. Frank

      July, 2010: Knicks sign Amar’e Stoudemire to 5 year $100,000,000 contract.

      Jowles: “This is a frightening signing if it doesn’t snare LeBron. Wetting my pants in fright here.”

      Frank: “I’m not sure what else you would want in a max player. He’s 27, is durable despite all rumors to the contrary, and is probably the best finisher in the game. One could easily argue that he’s a top 8 player in the league, and if looking for the most durable, youngest, and potentially available star out there, is probably #2 behind Lebron.”

      http://knickerblogger.net/knicks-sign-amare/#comments

      So, victory for the stat-head!

      Score: 1-1

      lol. it always amazes me that people have time to go searching through years of threads to find specific instances. fine.

      But.

      A) I’m not an orthopedic surgeon.
      B) Never said I was.
      C) Phoenix’s surgeons/doctors were concerned enough that they wouldn’t max him. And apparently the Knicks’ doctors were either not consulted or ignored because Donnie Walsh was so desperate.

      So surgeons win again?

    82. Zanzibar

      Frank’s got a soft spot for injured players: Amare/Embiid/Rose/Noah. If he were the GM, the Knick conference room on July 1st would look like the free clinic…Give me your tired, your injured… It’s adorable in the same way that Melo really thinks he’s a got a chance at recruiting KD to Knicks.

      Phoenix wanted to make Amare’s salary in years 3,4 conditional on #minutes played. Knicks included no such provision and the rest is sad but predictable history and harbinger of future (N-T-C). Embiid’s suffered 2 or 3 fractures before he’s even played a single NBA minute. No amount of prayer to the God Odin will prevent him from becoming player Oden. I actually think Frank’s optimism is somewhat justified in the cases of Noah and Rose. I just don’t think it matters if Rose plays well this season because I don’t want to re-sign him and I suspect Noah will get a 3 or 4 year deal @ 15m+/yr from Knicks which I wouldn’t really like though it might work out. Better to have just kept Lopez instead of take on that risk.

    83. Frank

      Jamal at something up to the room exception wouldn’t be a disaster.
      Anything more than that would be pretty awful.
      I think we can all agree on that.

    84. Frank

      btw – my optimism is not that I think the players will be fine. It’s that I refuse to believe conclusively that they WON’T be fine until we know more about what the team doctors think. If GMs ran away from everyone with a meniscus injury, they’d have to have 8 man rosters in the NBA or start importing guys from Europe.

    85. wetbandit

      Surgeons definitely know more than lay public in terms of prognosis, expected recovery potential, and recovery time. I’m a surgeon.

    86. stratomatic

      Jowles, just curious, if you bet let’s say $500 on the under, and the Knicks surprised everyone and won 47 games, would you be happy (because, after all, you’re a Knicks fan) or sad because a) you lost $500 and b) you were proven wrong.

      Inquiring minds want to know….

      If we kept Grant/Lopez and tried to add a few young pieces as part of a long term strategy, I doubt Jowles or I would be thinking about betting the under. As it is, there’s not much to root for other than KP. So I’ll root for KP to have a breakout year, the Knicks to suck, for me to win my bet, and for Jackson to come to his senses and build through the draft and with young healthy players with upside.

    87. reub

      D league coach Mike Miller will coach our summer league team, not Hornacek. Horny will be busy getting us superstar free agents for next to nothing. Just wait.

    88. SJK

      Crawford at any price would be fine as long as it is a one year deal. How we do next year really does not matter, sorry Melo.

      If he’s as bad as you say he is, then he contributes to our worst (read: best) case scenario of bombing out, Melo getting traded, Rose leaving and getting a good draft pick to develop with KP. If he’s not, he helps us become a middle of the road playoff team and then he leaves the next year. Whatever. I’m not going to be upset with any signings as long as they do not effect our long term flexibility.

    89. reub

      Yes, Dudley’s comments are an issue. But it has to be overcome if we’re building a championship contender.

      Just read that Philly is going to max Harrison Barnes. The money will be flowing.

    90. Z

      lol. it always amazes me that people have time to go searching through years of threads to find specific instances. fine.

      I don’t know. I think it takes less time to click on the archives, pull up the Knicks Sign Amar’e Stoudemire thread from July 2010, and scroll down the comments looking for the names Jowles and Frank than it does to concoct a contrarian defense of the Derrick Rose trade :)

    91. reub

      Daily News reporting Wroten was let go because of disciplinary reasons. Phil’s not messing around. Better watch out DRed and Jowles.

    92. Zanzibar

      Daily News reporting Wroten was let go because of disciplinary reasons. Phil’s not messing around.

      Yeap. Why Phil might even go so far as to not attend Rose’s trial in October!

    93. GoldClub

      From ESPN:
      Kevin Pelton makes the case that the Los Angeles Lakers (and perhaps other teams) should gamble on Whiteside. Pelton lists the pros and cons of signing Whiteside, with good evidence on each side. For our money, though, the cons outweigh the pros.
      Back in January, Whiteside joked that he was “just trying to get his NBA2K rating up.” The truth, of course, is often told in jest, and Whiteside often played as if his top priority was beefing up his box score stats.
      And he did put up some truly monstrous numbers — including 4.6 blocks and 10.6 defensive boards per 36 minutes of play. Unfortunately, playing defense isn’t just about blocking shots.
      Sometimes — especially for a 7-footer — it’s more effective just to stay in a solid defensive stance. When bigs are too eager to block shots, they end up biting on pump fakes and can actually make it easier for opponents to score. They also pick up lots of goaltending calls — a category in which Whiteside nearly “led” the league.
      The Miami Heat were actually worse defensively — they allowed more points per possession — with Whiteside on the floor last season. If we just look at his impressive block totals, Whiteside’s on-off efficiency numbers with Miami make no sense.
      But while Whiteside should be looking to emulate legendary bigs like Tim Duncan, who predicate every move on its ability to make the team better, he seems instead to have modeled his game after stat grubbers such as JaVale McGee.
      Again, it’s possible to put up huge numbers without actually helping the team all that much.
      Consider: Whiteside is one of only nine players in the history of the NBA to dish out 30 or fewer assists in a season in which they played more than 2,000 minutes.
      So, despite his gaudy numbers, Whiteside’s lackluster predictive RPM value of 0.32 rates him as just a league-average player for his overall impact on the game. If he doesn’t start playing fundamentally sound basketball next season — an unlikely…

    94. Cock Jowles, Not An Orthopaedic Surgeon

      No, I’m not offended, just trying to get a handle on your perspective. Seems to me it’s much more important for you to be right about things, and if you turned out to be wrong (on Derrick Rose, e.g.) just wondering if you would be somewhat happy (like most fans) that the Knicks exceeded expectations. My guess is not.

      Remember 2012-13? I predicted 54 wins. I wasn’t unhappy when we hit that number on the nose. I would have been happier if Kidd had stayed good and they won 60 and beat the Pacers. Most of my hand-wringing that year was because Chandler received far less credit than he was due.

      http://knickerblogger.net/2014-preseason-roundtable-whats-changed-really/#comment-447991

      This is a great post. I make an optimistic projection (that the Knicks failed to meet) and you tell me I’m not being optimistic enough, and then you tell me that part of being a great player is staying healthy. Quote:

      In terms of Chandler being unappreciated — I think it’d be fair to say that he and JR Smith cost us an ECF birth by playing absolutely terribly during the Pacers series. I get that he was injured, etc., but staying healthy is part of being a great player.

      Haha, that’s rich. How about we apply that to a certain new Knick who can’t stay on the floor long enough for us to determine whether he’s good or not. (I’ll be right about that one, too.)

      Some more beauties from that era:

      http://knickerblogger.net/knicks-morning-news-monday-sep-17-2012/#comment-403859

      Well, the Spurs had Leonard and Blair (the Faried of 2010) and were beaten in 4 straight playoff games by the Thunder. Of course, it’s that idiot Popovich’s fault for not playing Blair 40mpg.

      Hey, Z-man, check it out. Leonard is a superstar. Don’t you wish I had had some kind of say in the matter?

      Also, I was 2 years off on Drummond being a third-team All-NBA selection. Better late than never. Better critical and correct than dumbly optimistic.

    95. Z-man

      “Well, the Spurs had Leonard and Blair (the Faried of 2010) and were beaten in 4 straight playoff games by the Thunder. Of course, it’s that idiot Popovich’s fault for not playing Blair 40mpg.”

      “Hey, Z-man, check it out. Leonard is a superstar. Don’t you wish I had had some kind of say in the matter?”

      This was said in response to what THCJ said:

      “WP48 actually has the Knicks winning 50 games. The problem is that they’re giving a ton of minutes to an average SF and a below-average PF who happen to score a lot of points. If they replaced both of those players with young, cheap options (Leonard and Faried, please), this team would win 60 games and challenge Miami for the East crown.”

      I also said in that thread:

      “WP48 or no, there is no question that this is a very good, very deep
      veteran team with tons of playoff experience. As it should, it really comes down to how well Melo and Amare play. And age/injuries. We have tentative answers for all of the other eventualities. Poor or selfish play by the big 2 is the main thing that would lower the ceiling for us. Next would be key injuries. If we play well and stay healthy, we can beat anyone except the Heat and OKC.”

      I was right, except for the fact that your mancrush Chandler grossly underachieved in the EC semis and made Hibbert look like Shaq. I always liked Leonard, so there’s that.

      Faried? Not a fan.

    96. Z-man

      Jowles’ prediction going into the 2013-14 season:

      Final prediction: 42-40.

      The Knicks will not be good, and there will be a lot of explanations: injuries, “gel,” chemistry, coaching, Spike Lee.

      Most of the correct ones will include Bargnani being bad, Carmelo being overrated, Amar’e being overpaid, Chandler being unappreciated, and Iman being overburdened by the jheri curls he grows midseason.

      I predicted 53 wins, but it’s not like Jowles hit it on the head like he always claims.

    97. chrisk06811

      And Bill Bradley is one of his similarity guys on Basketball Reference!

      Don’t do it Reub!!!! someone’s going to go thru the archives and see I was against drafting Bradley

    98. ClashFan

      I think I might have been in favor of the Nolan Ryan for Jim Fregosi trade. Of course, I was like 10 years old, so there’s that.

    99. DRose for Prez

      Pacers. Most of my hand-wringing that year was because Chandler received far less credit than he was due.

      Yes yes poor Tyson chandler. 2011 DPOY, 2012 Olympian and 2013 all star. Yeah no credit there.

    100. KnickLifer

      Spurs need Kevin Durant. Would have to trade Danny Green, who makes 10 million over next 3. Why would we not just absorb this contract for 2nd round pick?

    101. Z-man

      Then before the next debacle of a season started, I said this:

      @1 as Z’s optimistic bizarro-brother, I am finding myself drifting to the darker side about this season. Our lack of 2-way players will kill us vs. good teams and lack of overall athleticism will kill us vs the young, up-and-coming teams, e.g. Milwaukee, Detroit, Utah. I’m thinking that unless all the current question marks break in our favor, we’re a 35-37 win team. To make the playoffs, guys like Shump, TH2, JR and Jason (and/or maybe Cole? Larkin? Acy? Cle? Wear? Not happening.) will have to step up big time, or some unanticipated trade/FA signing will have to come out of the blue.

      Jowles, on the other hand, said this:

      That’s not me, but I do go record each and every year. You can complain all you want but I correctly picked the Knicks’ record two years in a row and was way closer than the KB mean last year.

      Of course, I have no independent research to back that up, but this is a fucking fan’s blog and I really don’t give a fuck either way.

      38-44. I’m on the record!

      Enjoy the season!”

      You were only off by 21 wins, and your prediction was actually more optimistic than mine. The previous season, you predicted 42-40 and they finished 37-45. Only 5 wins off that time. I was 11 wins off. Got me there.

      I think last year we were pretty similar in our predictions.

    102. Z-man

      “Can you now imagine how fucking awesome a team of 5 Leonards would be?”

      No, not really. Better than a team with 5 Melos, I’ll give you that.

    103. bobneptune

      “Can you now imagine how fucking awesome a team of 5 Leonards would be?”

      I’d like to match them up vs 5 Pippens and grab a court side seat with some nice popcorn….

    104. lavor postell

      @110

      Rose’s case is a civil suit and the plaintiffs roommate is actually testifying in support of Rose.

      @126

      A few cold beers too

    105. KnickLifer

      Actually Spurs need to get rid of Boris Diaw as well to make math work. Diaw is has 1 year left, plus a team option at 7 million. How many of yall would have a heart attack if we traded for Danny Green, Boris Diaw & gave up a 2nd round pick and the rights to Mr. Willy Hernangomez. Who wouldn’t like that trade. 2 proven commodities for A Rookie. And we would still have 10 million left under the cap.

    106. ruruland

      Wait, remember when I predicted the 2012-13 season, and instead of using WP actually broke down all of the reasons the Knicks would be good (emphasizing, spread pnr and 3-point shooting) way before anyone else?

      Does that count or nah?

    107. Owen

      If the Warriors are looking to trade Bogut we should try to get in on that.

      Small violation of Rule 1. But he’d be a nice Lopez replacement.

    108. Silky Johnson, Phil Jackson Hater of the Year

      I would be so, so down for a Bogut trade. Maybe we could even extract a 2nd round pick in the process.

    109. Silky Johnson, Phil Jackson Hater of the Year

      Knicks free agent player hierarchy:

      KD>Whiteside>Bogut trade>Cole Aldrich>Solomon Hill>Lance Stephenson>Bazemore/Fournier/*insert overrated young max player*>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jamal Crawford>>>>>>>>>>>>Derrick Rose

    110. DRed

      Hmm, the warriors don’t have any picks next year. I guess I’d just take Bogut for the year, since we’re probably gonna suck anyhow. We could flip him at the deadline, right? Good big man can come in handy sometimes.

    111. Silky Johnson, Phil Jackson Hater of the Year

      I guess we could go way in the future and take their 2019 second for the service of parking their expiring contract, heh.

      But yeah, he’s certainly worth taking for the year even if there’s no incoming pick, because he’s still really good, and is almost exactly what this team needs at C.

    112. KnickLifer

      @130
      Yea Diaw might just be a lil too old and heavy at this point but he can still play, shoot the three at a decent rate and he can bang in the middle. He ain’t blocking shots but he definitely compliments KP nicely.

      I like the Bogut option tho. He’s makimg 11 mill. I still say we make a play for Danny Greens 10 million. He’s better than Bazemore, who we would have to give probably 16 – 18.

      If we got Danny Green and Bogut
      We would still have 9 million for backup PG. And some cash to Resign Lance Thomas, and Galloway.

    113. lavor postell

      If we got Danny Green and Bogut that would be an amazing start to the summer and I’m not even a big Bogut guy.

    114. DRed

      All the Knicks need at center (assuming Porzingis keeps filling out) is a short term guy who can start against the bigger dudes in the league. Bogut has obvious durability issues and he might be breaking down completely, but he’d certainly fit the bill for a stop gap. Plus Bogut knows how to play defense at center.

    115. stratomatic

      Here are my top 2 rules.

      Rule #1. Never trade young healthy players with possible upside for formerly better players with a recent history of injuries and a general decline in recent form.

      Rule #2. Never forget Rule #1.

    116. Silky Johnson, Phil Jackson Hater of the Year

      If we got Danny Green and Bogut our starting five would actually be a huge plus on the defensive end despite the shambling kneeless corpse of Derrick Rose and the Defensive Enigma Known As Mr. Anthony getting 30+ minutes a game.

      Sign us up for that Phil, Pop, and Steve!

    117. DRed

      Never trade young healthy players with possible upside for formerly better players with a recent history of injuries and a general decline in recent form.

      Good news! We don’t have any more young healthy players with possible upside except for Porzingis

    118. reub

      Why would I trade for Danny Green and Bogut when I can get Courtney Lee and Noah for free (except for a little cash).

    119. Silky Johnson, Phil Jackson Hater of the Year

      1. they’re better players.
      2. you absorb both straight into the cap, I’m pretty sure–no trading of assets required.
      3. we can probably acquire some 2nds in doing so.

    120. SJK

      If we can trade for Bogut into our cap space Phil had better be jumping ALL OVER THAT. I would even give up the Bulls #2 we just got for him. We only need the guy to play 20-25 mins a game at center and we’d still have 18 million left over to sign a wing and backup pg.

    121. KnickLifer

      @ 144

      Danny green and Bogut would be a cheaper duo than Noah/Lee. With the rise in cap we are going to have to overpay mostly everyone to come here.

      @145
      Your absolutely right, I would add

      4. Green is a better shooter, bigger size, better defender.

    122. johnno

      Maybe I’m missing something. Isn’t the idea that GS has to trade Bogut and SA has to dump Green to make room for Durant? Since Durant can only pick one team, both guys won’t be on the dumping block.

    123. Silky Johnson, Phil Jackson Hater of the Year

      Ideal Knicks FA scenario (assuming neither Durant nor Whiteside agree to take their talents to NYC):

      Absorb Andrew Bogut’s 11M expiring contract, acquire a 2019 second round pick from the Warriors

      Absorb Danny Green’s 10M 3yr contract, acquire a 2017/18 second round pick from the Spurs

      Acquire Alessandro Gentile’s rights from Houston (for a 2nd and cash? Idk what that costs.) Sign to a 3 yr 1.5M per contract with a team option on the 3rd year.

      Starting 5 of: Rose (ugh), Green, Melo, Porzingis, Bogut. Porzingis and Bogut split time at the 5 (KP plays 15 ish minutes a night there) and Melo picks up some time at PF. Bench of O’Quinn, Hernangomez, Galloway, Thomas (maybe?), Gentile, Ron Baker, Justin Holiday. Plus bench filler (Sasha?).
      That leaves us with roughly 10M (I think?) in space which we either keep for next year or spend on 1-2 backups.

      There you go, Phil Jackson, hire me–I’ve got the best basketball ideas.

      Then again, this is all probably fantasy and we end up paying Kent Bazemore 18M AAV.

    124. Silky Johnson, Phil Jackson Hater of the Year

      Maybe I’m missing something. Isn’t the idea that GS has to trade Bogut and SA has to dump Green to make room for Durant? Since Durant can only pick one team, both guys won’t be on the dumping block.

      Pretty sure GS is looking to move Bogut in any circumstance. Either they trade Bogut and sign KD/Whiteside/some other big FA or they trade Bogut and resign Ezeli instead. So Bogut is on his way out, by all current indications at least.

      Danny Green trade is contingent on the Spurs trying to sign a max level guy so he’s more of a question mark than bogut is.

    125. bobneptune

      Good news! We don’t have any more young healthy players with possible upside except for Porzingis

      We only had one before the Rose trade unless one has a very liberal definition of “up side”

    126. Cock Jowles, Not An Orthopaedic Surgeon

      I am really scared for the league if the Warriors get Whiteside. Not even sure what they’d do with him, but if Bogut can thrive in the Warriors’ offense, so can he.

      Curry, Thompson, Iguodala, Green, Whiteside.

      Do you just go at Curry the whole game?

    127. KnickLifer

      @149
      The Spurs are looking to improve regardless if KD joins or not. They will be in the market for someone. So I think the Danny Green thing is a possibility. Maybe they go after Conley of they miss on KD

    128. lavor postell

      If the Warriors big splash in FA is to spend big on a halfcourt C that can’t switch out on to guards consistently, which is what makes their Death Lineup great then they’re spending their resources poorly. They need a solid, but unspectacular 25-28 MPG center and then somebody better than Harrison Barnes.

      I think Deng would be amazing for them to replace Barnes with tbh, though I can understand if they felt that was too short-term of a swap.

      The toughest thing for them will be to find a way to replace Iguodala if he starts showing more wear and tear.

    129. chrisk06811

      does SA have to trade Green to afford Durant? I think they can just trade or cut Diaw. Even if they did want to trade him, many teams will be interested. Why give him away to us AND throw in a pick? If they give him to us and then sign Durant, who is their 2 guard?

      Same kinda thing for GS; I guess moving Bogut makes sense, but why wouldn’t a contender that needs a big offer them back something for him? Why would they give him away? Wouldn’t Houston want him, for example? or Mia (losing Whiteside), or maybe Tor or Memphis?

    130. SJK

      San Antonio trading Green to us is pure fantasy. And we’re certainly not gonna end up with both Green and Bogut.

    131. Cock Jowles, Not An Orthopaedic Surgeon

      The Spurs and Warriors get players like those. The Knicks do not. Not enough pointz.

    132. reub

      Best scenario is to make 3 trades and a signing? For a guy who can only play 20 minutes at center and is slow as shit and another guy who averages 10 pts 5 rebs and 2 assists per 36 minutes coming off of a bad year? Two guys whose numbers are almost certainly exagerrated by the teams that they play for? The third guy we’d acquire would be a guy that Houston could sign but won’t and never played in the league? That’s the best we can do?

    133. Cock Jowles, Not An Orthopaedic Surgeon

      If the Warriors big splash in FA is to spend big on a halfcourt C that can’t switch out on to guards consistently, which is what makes their Death Lineup great then they’re spending their resources poorly. They need a solid, but unspectacular 25-28 MPG center and then somebody better than Harrison Barnes.

      I actually agree, but Whiteside bangin’ with Aldridge, Adams and Thompson could be huge for playoff matchups.

      The Warriors are by far the most efficient and most voluminous fast-break team in the league, but there is still a place for a hyper-athletic Bogut-type in their system. He is 2nd only to DeAndre on alley-oops, and the Warriors have five (!) excellent dribble-penetrators to create space for the big man.

      Fast-break opportunities are plentiful in the Dubs’ defense, but it’s not like the transition game is ever a 5-man game. Durant would be much better, but Whitehead would make them a threat for teams that try to stop them in the half-court.

    134. KnickfaninNJ

      The discuss discussion about Whitesides is starting to remind me of Marbury. Both are players who put up great stats but didn’t seem to help their teams as much as those stats suggest they should have. Marbury was quoted as saying if he didn’t play the way he did he “wouldn’t be no max player”. That’s a lot like Whitesides today.

    135. reub

      Supposedly Noah and his agent are recruiting Courtney Lee to sign with the Knicks too. You gotta love the Zen master! I’ll bet that they both sign for less than market value so that we can get another player too. The Knicks are going to be great this year, guys.

    136. Cock Jowles, Not An Orthopaedic Surgeon

      @161

      Honors
      2015-16 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
      Offensive Rebounds
      2015-16 NBA 238 (7)
      Defensive Rebounds
      2015-16 NBA 627 (7)
      Total Rebounds
      2015-16 NBA 865 (3)
      Blocks
      2015-16 NBA 269 (1)

      Field Goal Pct
      2015-16 NBA .606 (3)
      2-PT Field Goal Pct
      2015-16 NBA .606 (3)
      Rebounds Per Game
      2015-16 NBA 11.8 (3)
      Blocks Per Game
      2015-16 NBA 3.7 (1)

      Player Efficiency Rating
      2015-16 NBA 25.7 (7)
      True Shooting Pct
      2015-16 NBA .629 (4)
      Effective Field Goal Pct
      2015-16 NBA .606 (4)
      Offensive Rebound Pct
      2015-16 NBA 13.1 (9)
      Defensive Rebound Pct
      2015-16 NBA 32.4 (3)
      Total Rebound Pct
      2015-16 NBA 23.1 (2)
      Block Pct
      2015-16 NBA 9.7 (1)

      Defensive Rating
      2015-16 NBA 94.5 (1)

      Defensive Win Shares
      2015-16 NBA 5.3 (5)
      Win Shares Per 48 Minutes
      2015-16 NBA .233 (7)
      Defensive Box Plus/Minus
      2015-16 NBA 3.4 (7)

      What anecdote do you have about how he doesn’t help his team win?

    137. johnno

      How about perhaps the single most important stat — his team is virtually no better with him on the court than off. Less than one net point per 100 possessions to be exact.

    138. DRed

      I’m not fully sold on Whiteside, but you can’t fight the last war in the off season. In any event, the death lineup is based on the ability of Green and Barnes to guard bigger dudes effectively. But because Whiteside can’t do certain things well that doesn’t mean he can’t help GS in other ways.

    139. reub

      Our probable team:

      Rose/Galloway/FA PG or Diabate
      Lee/Holiday/Crawford or Ron Baker
      Melo/Thomas/Early
      KP/KoQ
      Noah/Hernangomez/Plumlee

      I like it!

    140. DRed

      Johnno, the question for the Warriors is would Golden State be better with Whiteside than Bogut or whatever other alternatives

    141. johnno

      Yes, I think that Whiteside is better than Bogut, but I’m not ready to crown him an all-time great just yet. By the way, over the last four years, the Knicks have been a net 3.4,9.0,9.3 and 5.4 points per 100 possessions better with Melo on the floor than with him off the floor.

    142. DRed

      And only one of those teams managed to win more than 40 games. Is it any surprise that the Knicks aren’t good when they have a bunch of bad players on the floor?

    143. Frank

      Absorb Andrew Bogut’s 11M expiring contract, acquire a 2019 second round pick from the Warriors

      Absorb Danny Green’s 10M 3yr contract, acquire a 2017/18 second round pick from the Spurs

      While I agree with the concept of taking players into our cap space and collecting assets, I think we are kidding ourselves if we think that players of the magnitude of Green and Bogut could be obtained like this. Seems far more likely draft picks would be headed TO Golden State and SA. Every team in the entire league can use guys like Green and Bogut = seller’s market. No chance it’s just a salary dump.

    144. lavor postell

      It would be a buyer’s market if they’re just looking to clear the cap space to sign Durant. Nobody’s giving them anything of serious value to take on the salary for a role player so that they can sign a top-3 player in the league. At best they’ll get some token 2nd rounder.

    145. massive

      I don’t think GS or SAS are dumb enough to trade starters for the possibility of a Kevin Durant. Either way, I’ll sign up for Danny Green all day. I like Jeremy Lamb a little more because he’s 5 years younger, but Green to the Knicks would be perfect. If I could get Green for $10M I would immediately throw the rest of my money at Hassan Whiteside.

    146. lavor postell

      Of course they wouldn’t deal until they got a commitment from Durant, but you really think they’re going to sit around at that point and try to maximize asset value or get everything done as soon as possible so that nobody can swoop in?

    147. johnno

      Well, Melo had to play with that same collection of craptastic players when he was on the court and yet, somehow, despite being an inefficient volume scorer and lousy defender, he made those teams an average of six points better when he was on the court. Yet, Hassan Whiteside, for all his other worldly talents, couldn’t help his good team play any better than they played when he was on the bench. It’s amazing that Whiteside had terrific offensive and defensive ratings but had almost a net zero impact on the outcome of games. Go figure.

    148. ruruland

      Whiteside was 24th AMONG CENTERS in RPM, which would seem to indicate that there is at least something to the consistently bad +/-

      He was 25th AMONG CENTERS two years ago, so it’s not a fluke.

      He appears to be really good for a team’s defense, and not so hot for its offense despite the guayd true shooting percentages.

    149. DRed

      Well, last year he was playing on a team with superstar Josh McRoberts and Big Game James Ennis, and he still put a higher net rating than HOF Chris Bosh. This year he outdid Bosh, Wade and Deng. So I dunno.

    150. EB

      Yes, I think that Whiteside is better than Bogut, but I’m not ready to crown him an all-time great just yet. By the way, over the last four years, the Knicks have been a net 3.4,9.0,9.3 and 5.4 points per 100 possessions better with Melo on the floor than with him off the floor.

      It’s good to know that Melo is better than Lance Thomas and Cleanthony Early.

    151. ruruland

      FWIW, Whiteside is obviously a very good player, but his impact is probably not commensurate with stats.

      Guys with his stats almost always have unbelievable +/- numbers.

    152. ruruland

      Right, EB, because +/- is simply a reflection of a team’s positional depth chart and has NOTHING to do with interaction effects.

      Lebron is great because he’s so much BETTER than the wing that plays 10 minutes when he’s on the bench.

    153. massive

      I will never forget the time Hassan Whiteside destroyed the Knicks’ entire offense by just being on court. We were playing .500 basketball at that point so we were still good. The man was a living, breathing No Lay Up Rule. Watching him play made me a believer.

    154. ruruland

      “It’s good to know that Melo is better than Lance Thomas and Cleanthony Early.”

      Derrick Williams was pretty solid last year. And Porzingis got way more shots!

      I can’t believe the Knicks couldn’t win a single game without Melo in the lineup last year.

    155. Silky Johnson, Phil Jackson Hater of the Year

      Using on/off statistics to judge an individual player’s contribution to their team is extremely simplistic. On/off numbers simply ignore the fact that certain players tend to play with certain other players, which makes it difficult to isolate just what is causing a player’s individual on/off numbers to be what they are. David Lee had the 5th best +/- in the league in 2013-2014, but that occurred mainly via his being on a team with Steph Curry. JJ Redick was 9th that year, mainly as a function of his playing often with Chris Paul and Deandre Jordan. Melo has generally good on/off numbers because most of his Knicks teams have been below-average-to-horrible. His on/off numbers are only loosely related to his actual production as a player, where, by all indications, he’s merely above average.

      The reason more advanced statistics like APM, BPM, RAPM, RPM, etc. exist is because raw +/- numbers simply can’t be trusted. Let’s look at Whiteside’s per-36 numbers and productivity metrics instead, please…they’re certainly more respectful of the eye test than saying Hassan Whiteside has no impact on the court because a noisy metric says he doesn’t.

    156. ruruland

      Uh, again, who is arguing that +/- stats are definitively capturing value?

      It’s just one stat to look at, and yes, the aforementioned +/- metrics are better than raw +/-.

      The thing is that Whiteside’s contextualized +/- are much worse than his raw +/-.

    157. DRed

      Kevin Love was 10th in the NBA in real plus minus, one spot behind Nikola Jokic, and 11 spots ahead of the great Cole Aldrich, 21st best player in entire the National Basketball Association. That’s a huge step up for Cole, who the year before was the 58th best center in the same league.

    158. Donnie Walsh

      Two guys whose numbers are almost certainly exagerrated by the teams that they play for?

      What?!? But the Knicks are going to be amazing next year! So Green and Bogut’s play will be exaggerated by the rings in Phil Jackson’s vanity drawer, right?! Believe!!!!

    159. ruruland

      1500 player sample is pretty solid. Melo has been 7th at SF every year, for example (out of 70+ qualified)

    160. Silky Johnson, Phil Jackson Hater of the Year

      Well Johnno was just using net points per 100 to argue against whiteside’s productivity, so I was mainly responding to that.

      I’m pretty non-ideological (and not statistically or mathematically literate enough to shill for a particular metric in anything approaching a principled, reasonable manner) when it comes to the advanced productivity metrics like WS, WP, BPM, RPM, etc. so I try to take each of them as a particular data point, rather than one or two being the end all be all. The fact of the matter is his production ought to be considered elite by most metrics: WP/48, WS/48, PER, defensive tracking stats, ORTG/DRTG (pretty simplistic admittedly), per 36 stats (also simplistic), rim protection stats like points saved per 36 mins, etc. The fact that he performs less admirably in +/- statistics is something to consider but ought not be considered influential enough evidence to outweigh the deliverances of all the other data points–including the infamous eye test–which indicate him as a top tier player. It might be just as reasonable to see Whiteside as a +/- edge case of undervaluation, much as WP overvalues rebounding and other aspects of a player via suspect positional adjustments or how the calculation of an individual player’s DWS is affected positively or negatively by the quality of team defense being played in a way that is also suspect.

      There’s no good reason to assume that he’s not a top tier player unless someone can give me a particularly persuasive reason why certain advanced +/- stats get him right and the vast majority of other advanced stats get him wrong.

    161. DRed

      The chatter is we’re the favorites to land Noah. If it’s a make good contract I’m cool, I guess, but anything over 2 years seems like more risk than it’s worth.

    162. Silky Johnson, Phil Jackson Hater of the Year

      Noah at a 1+1 is fine. We’re in all likelihood punting this season anyway, whether Phil/Melo like it or not.

      Anything that isn’t 1+1 is dumb cap math-wise and indicates a misunderstanding of how to build a winning championship team as well as a misunderstanding of how to properly value individual players (something we’ve already had plenty of experience with in the Jackson era!)

    163. ruruland

      I agree for the most part, but I think the point of +/- metrics is to capture things not tallied in the box score. All of the other metrics are purely functions of box scores.

      If you simply go buy those kind of tallies, the guy is Shaq.

      I’m not saying one should be weighted more than the other, per se, just that I wouldn’t dismiss a non box score state because all of the other box score stats are highly correlated.

    164. DRed

      ?@TimBontemps 3 minutes ago
      Sources: Joakim Noah is expected to reunite with Derrick Rose & return to NYC on a deal starting around $18 million

    165. DRed

      18 million is essentially updated Lopez money with the new cap. It’s Knicksy to essentially light 5 million dollars on fire, but if he’s able to stay relatively healthy and it’s a short deal it might work out. I have absolutely no idea how we’re going to score points aside from offensive rebounds though.

    166. Silky Johnson, Phil Jackson Hater of the Year

      I think Phil’s projecting that KP will have a TS% of 60 and a per 36 points number of 25 maybe?

      Better hope Ron Baker is the second coming of Jeff Hornacek

    167. JK47

      It’s going to be a bad offense with absolutely massive eFG% problems. The league eFG% was .502 last year, and as of now the Knicks do not have a single player on the roster who had an eFG% above .475 last year.

      The accidental tank, though, is looking good.

    168. ruruland

      It was only a couple of years ago he was a top 10 player and the best center in the league.

      A few interesting facts.

      Last year he set a career best in DRR, ORR amd DR. He was 6th in the league in rebound rate. That would seem extremely atypical of a player dealing with age regression.

      Last year, 73% percent of Noah’s shots came at the rim (the second best mark of his career), though he finished them at an extremely low rate (obviously typical of age regression).

      His turnover rate was off the charts, but he also had an insane 26 % assist rate and averaged 6.2 assists per 36 minutes. The Bulls were 6 points better defensively with him on the floor.

      kind of confounding.

    169. ruruland

      WP liked him a lot last year Lopez 165 Wp, Noah 211 WP.

      WS obviously did not like Noah, and RPM graded him out average.

    170. ruruland

      That interior defense is pretty freaking nasty though, AK.

      I mean, Noah led the Bulls to the top DRTG with Carlos Boozer on his wing.

    171. DRed

      Jo went to fucking UNIS tho. That’s some bullshit. Not as bullshit as a center with a 40 TS%, but some bullshit

    172. Eyal

      Noah at a 1+1 is fine. We’re in all likelihood punting this season anyway, whether Phil/Melo like it or not.

      If the over / under on Noah’s contract length is 2 years I take the over with this vacuous team.

    173. DRed

      Eric Gordon would be a perfect compliment to Noah. He can get buckets and absolutely nothing else.

    174. ruruland

      Wait, so how is signing the anchor to the best defensive team of the last decade, the best passing center in basketball, an elite rebounder and a guy heralded as a great leader such a downer around here (if it is a two year deal?)

      He’s a great pick and roll defender with rim protection. Are there any of those left in the NBA?

      If he can just get close to his career average on the shooting and turnover side, he’s a great player.

    175. BigBlueAL

      There lies the problem, “if”. The Knicks are constantly acquiring guys where it’s “if” they’re healthy or “if” they play as well as they used to play when they were younger.

      However I actually like signing Noah and think he will be a positive addition, much more so than Rose.

    176. reub

      “Wait, so how is signing the anchor to the best defensive team of the last
      decade, the best passing center in basketball, an elite rebounder and a
      guy heralded as a great leader such a downer around here (if it is a two
      year deal?)
      He’s a great pick and roll defender with rim protection. Are there any of
      those left in the NBA?
      If he can just get close to his career average on the shooting and turnover
      side, he’s a great player.”

      Ummm. Because it’s knickerblogger.net?

    177. Donnie Walsh

      It was only a couple of years ago he was a top 10 player and the best center in the league.

      Yup. That’s the kind of player the Knicks shell out gobs of dough for.

    178. Donnie Walsh

      The Knicks should now go about trying to re-amass all of the picks Isiah traded away.

      Aldridge may be out of play, but Gordon Hayward and Kirk Snyder (Marbury trade) could still be had.

      And Rony Turiaf (Van Horn dump) and Steve Novak (Maurice Taylor trade) could still play in New York. (Oh, wait, we already tried to right those wrongs?…)

    179. Cock Jowles, Not An Orthopaedic Surgeon

      Yup. That’s the kind of player the Knicks shell out gobs of dough for.

      Yup, and that’s the kind of player that ruruland makes a gushing, optimistic post about.

    180. Donnie Walsh

      to NYC on a deal starting around $18 million.

      “Starting” doesn’t sound like a one-year deal.

      How much is left? Evan Turner at $15,000,000 per year? Or is that reaching too high now?

    181. Dough Chew

      uhhhh…..someone asked me to ask this……what’s a rough rider?

      @118
      I think it has something to do with Stephen A Smith.
      :-)

      oh. then why isn’t it in all caps?

      This is the loudest I’ve LOL’d at anything on KB in a while. I’m not exactly sure why.

      You guys are weirdos, but you’re my favorite weirdos.

    182. Brian Cronin

      I’d like to match them up vs 5 Pippens and grab a court side seat with some nice popcorn….

      Oh man, that’d be outstanding.

    183. Brian Cronin

      If that’s what it is, then yes, that would be unwise. Hopefully, though, it’s a 1+1 for $18 million a year.

      I at least have really admired Noah’s career. That’s something! He’s a good character guy, as well.

    184. Eyal

      Aldridge may be out of play

      Donnie I think Porzingis gets you Aldridge. Stay optimistic!

    185. Z-man

      Man, I am leery about this Noah thing. $18 Million to start? What’s that, for 3 years?

      The good: Noah was one of the best players in the NBA 3 years ago.
      The bad: Noah sucked badly last year, has been on an overall decline, and is injury-prone
      The ugly: Noah’s shooting form, hair and beard, choice of on-court epithets.

      Clearly Phil is in total “win now” mode. Strategy: bank on proven players who have declined due to injury returning to form.

      It’s an interesting gamble. Chicago was such a dysfunctional team last year that it’s hard to gauge whether Noah was injured, frustrated or washed up.

      I suppose it’s the only way of having a “chance” of being really good this year. I mean, Suppose we fill in at the SG with Courtney Lee and Jamal Crawford. IF Noah and Rose both play like all-stars, this is a team that can beat anyone on any given night. Very, very iffy, though.

      It will be tough getting any sleep tonight.

    186. lavor postell

      Noah only sucked last year in terms of scoring efficiency. Obviously that’s a pretty big thing but he was also great on the glass, defensively and as a passer. With his mobility I’d expect us to be even better defensively this season than we were with Lopez last year assuming we can get 60 games minimum from him, which is a pretty big assumption.

      As long as it’s a 1+1 or 2 years at most I don’t have a problem with this deal. Short term boom/bust type contracts make the most sense for the Knicks once they dealt Lopez and Grant. You either get the home run or strike out. That’s fine with me. Just don’t want this to be some 3-4 year atrocity on cap sheet.

      What I do find interesting is that it seems like there are a number of teams interested in Noah.

    187. Brian Cronin

      Man, I am leery about this Noah thing. $18 Million to start? What’s that, for 3 years?

      That’s the question. If it is three years, then yeah, not so good, especially since then it will be clear that Jackson is in “win-now” mode, which would be disappointing.

      But that’s only if it is a three year deal. We don’t know the particulars yet, so there’s still time to hope it is a 1+1!

    188. Brian Cronin

      By the way, one amusing thing is that Noah apparently is meeting with the Knicks tomorrow afternoon, not at midnight. That amuses me. “No, I’m not staying up to midnight to do our meeting. We’ll talk about it in the afternoon.” :)

    189. Nick C.

      So the best case scenario is something like the 54 win season where Kidd, K-Mart, Rasheed, Kurt Thomas all had major contributions. The only thing about this is, as we saw, it requires a re-boot going forward. I prefer something a little more long term rather than a hoping to catch lightning in a bottle or having to revamp the roster every year. As it stands we have two players, maybe three with Galloway, that we can see still on the roster and contributing at or above last year’s level in two to three years.

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