Knicks Morning News (2016.07.09)

  • [New York Times] Knicks’ Free-Agent Hires Add Needed Depth and Homegrown Passion (Sat, 09 Jul 2016 05:00:06 GMT)

    The Knicks introduced their three major free-agent signings from this month, guards Brandon Jennings and Courtney Lee and center Joakim Noah, a New York native who grew up a die-hard fan.

  • [New York Times] The UConn Legend Breanna Stewart Adjusts to Life in the W.N.B.A. (Sat, 09 Jul 2016 06:21:33 GMT)

    Stewart, a four-time national champion, is learning to deal with losing and the pressure of high expectations in a league that can use a breakout star.

  • [New York Times] Former Princeton Star Dietrick Enjoying Her Time in the WNBA (Sat, 09 Jul 2016 08:09:32 GMT)

    Blake Dietrick never thought she’d get a chance to play in the WNBA.

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    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    57 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2016.07.09)”

    1. If (1) the very best players in the league are underpaid AND (2) super teams, like ’16-’17 Warriors are bad for competition, both problems could be solved if they could modify Bird rights so that superstars could get much bigger incentives by staying with that drafted them.

      Unfortunately, I think super teams are probably good for business [I’ll admit, I was pretty invested in rooting against the Heat] and the NBPA probably, for some reason, likes having players with mid-level talent getting a bigger piece of the pie than what they’re worth. So we probably should not expect any changes anytime soon.

    2. The issue is that there are a lot more mid-level players (or players who THINK that they’re mid-level players or COULD be mid-level players) than there are superstars. Hence the deals are geared towards them.

    3. And because they’re are more of them they skew the CBA in their favor. How do you fix that? It’s not like the superstars will align against the NBPA or anything. But the TV contracts are worth so much more because of players like LeBron and Curry which is ultimately what is getting the mid-level players paid so much.

    4. Really surprised DWill couldn’t do better than 5m. I would have figured someone would have offered at least something like 2 or 3 yrs at 8aav. And given that Heat tend to play slow as molasses it seems like he’d have been better off staying here. I think he’d have been a decent risk at 3/24- he’s only 25, has improved every year and is just a three point shot away (and he isn’t bad from the corner) from being a pretty nice offensive player. Maybe he did get some multiyear offers but figured he’d rather take less and be a free agent again next year when the cap will go up yet again.

    5. Think the way to fix super teams plus exploitative contracts is to implement a hard team cap and remove individual salary maximums (even for rookies) so each player gets paid more commensurate to their worth while also ensuring greater league parity

    6. I may be just rebounding from Galloway but I think I’m starting to like Ron Baker in that way

    7. It’s going to be difficult to get players to agree to a hard cap… KD signing with GSW makes Phil’s moves this off season seem a little less crazy to me. Talent really does seem to attract talent and if Noah bounces back and — to a much lesser extent — players still think Rose “can play” they are more likely to attract one of the outstanding free agents in 2017.

      http://hoopshype.com/2016/05/14/nba-free-agency-2017-the-top-players/

      Sure, they could be left with damaged goods and mediocre draft picks too.

    8. Players thinking Rose can play will be irrelevant because if Rose stays they can’t sign anyone

    9. My heart’s getting all aflutter at the thought of Baker, too. Really high bball IQ

    10. Yeah Williams really got screwed this year. He played well enough for a multiyear deal. Miami got a great deal there.

    11. @8 – That’s most likely true. Although the cap will be up and he could sign for less than the $20 mill he makes this year; still prob. not quite enough cap space for a marquee player.

    12. I may be just rebounding from Galloway but I think I’m starting to like Ron Baker in that way

      Stop. . .it’s just too soon. I need time to heal

    13. The playoffs were great. I just tried to be thankful to get to watch these incredible athletes.

      Now, less than a month later I’m very excited to watch basketball. I’m looking forward to November! Can’t wait to watch the NYK experiment. It won’t be boring. and GSW is gonna have me glued to the set.
      NBA is pretty good.

    14. Also one more thing. 32 and 50 is boring after a while. At first it was fun last year as the team showed flashes. After a while, it seemed they were doomed to at least one sub 20 point quarter every game. So, I’m not really gonna miss any of the guys that are gone. It’s not like the chatter around here has been about missing Aflalo, Dwill, or Calderon. I liked Langston Galloway the best of the gone squad, and Rolo, but again I like winning and those guys didn’t show enough of that to indicate to me we should have given it another shot with the same roster. I think we did well to keep Lance Thomas, who’s a true two way player now.

      Now, at least, if the rest of the league demystifies our schemes and blows them up, I can look forward to getting a good player or two in the draft, another shuffle of the deck and an improved team in another year. In terms of youth rebuild, we just signed the two kids from the Spanish league and we have RON. So, we are rebuilding. We are getting younger. We do have assets.

    15. Although the cap will be up and he could sign for less than the $20 mill he makes this year; still prob. not quite enough cap space for a marquee player.

      Not probably — definitely. Rose makes $22 million. Let’s say he resigns for $17m yet somehow other players still consider him an attraction. The Knicks already have ~$78 million in 2017 space committed and the cap estimate is $102m. Add in Rose at $17m (they can’t sign someone else then use Rose’ Bird rights to go over the cap, because in the meantime he’d have a $32m cap hold before they renounced him) and you get $95. That would leave you $7 million in space. Jeff Green signed for $15 million this year and he’s barely an NBA level player. Even if they shed some contracts like Lance Thomas or KOQ, they are still not getting enough space include both Rose and a big time free agent. So it really doesn’t matter.

      And BTW, last year before the season started Rose was asked about his sexual assault case and somehow his answer veered into how he was focused on getting a piece of all the big money players were signing for when his contract ends, even though he had two year left on one of the biggest contracts in the league which he had dramatically underperformed. So I don’t think he’s going to accept anything but the best he can get, which will mean more than he’s worth.

    16. My loathing of the Rose deal is reduced by my thinking that Rose will neither deserve a max deal nor be given any deal by the Knicks. There is a scenario where he plays so well that we have to keep him, but that seems less than a 20% chance when both Russ & Melo’s pal CP3 are available, and when Phil let Gallo go because he wanted to make sure they’d have room for a mega max. Rose doesn’t have enough years for a mega max; CP3 does. I highly doubt Rose will be here after next year.

      If he is amazing this season, it would be a problem, but a good problem…and an unlikely problem.

    17. The Knicks don’t actually have room for a mega max contract currently. They had room where they could get rid of some guys to clear roughly enough for the lesser max (the Westbrook max), but that was before the news came out that the cap was going to be $5 million less than expected. I’m sure that they’d find a way to make the room if need be, but it would require making some deals that we might not be down with them making, ya know? Like let’s say that they get a mid-teens first rounder. They might have to trade that away to clear some cap space.

    18. I guess everyone’s worried he’ll hit a game winner or two and Phil will hand him a full max because Knicks. Considering Phil just said goodbye to almost half the team I don’t think he’ll be overly sentimental when it comes to extensions. I think he thought, this is the best I can do this year. Maybe he’ll get to the cup and we’ll win some games. If he stinks we have a gift certificate for 22 million toward an all star. Maybe Westbrook. Just stay healthy everyone.

    19. if the cap went down that means the max went down right? i think we would need to clear 3-5mm in room to fit that in if that’s the case… which is either the 1st rd pick…. which i will kill them if they trade…. or either the oquinn or thomas contracts….

    20. Players are already taking less to come to this juggernaut. Noah could have gotten much more. Same with Lee and Jennings. Lance Thomas told his agent not to contact any other teams. By next season they’ll be begging to play for us for free.

    21. if the cap went down that means the max went down right?

      Actually, shit, I was taking that into account, but you’re right, I was thinking about the Paul max. My bad. Yes, the Westbrook max will be about roughly $28 million. They’re currently about $3-5 million away from that. So before the cap came out lower than expected, they had the Westbook max already available. So, really, while they still don’t currently have room for the Westbrook max, O’Quinn’s contract would do the trick. So they’re still fine in that regard, as it seems hard to believe someone wouldn’t take O’Quinn into their cap space.

    22. I don’t love the Rose trade, but I see where it makes sense. Didn’t love the terms of Noah’s deal, but the market seemed to set his value with all the money flying around. I would have preferred to give Grant another season, but logical arguments have been made about his projections of not-NBA starter ceiling.
      It’s been said before: some folks miss the fact that Jackson was looking at ONE first round pick in his first three years on the job. So what he’s done is take calculated risks to infuse the team with talent with the resources available while maintaining future flexibility.
      With the team’s past, it’s understandable that people see the Rose and Noah moves and fear that the team is repeating past mistakes. But I think folks should look just a bit deeper and see that they aren’t the same as Curry, Francis and Bargs. I’ll go as far as to say they ain’t close at all.

      I’m fine with the plan for this upcoming season and after. Best case scenario: 2nd round in the playoffs. Worst case: high lottery pick in a better draft than this past year.

    23. Worst case: high lottery pick in a better draft than this past year.

      Actually, the worst case is barely making the playoffs as an 8th seed, getting crushed by Cleveland in a sweep with every game being a 30 point blowout thereby ensuring us both very unentertaining playoff games and a non-lottery pick; but Rose plays just well enough to trick Dolan into thinking it’s a good idea to force Jackson into giving him a long-term high dollar contract.

    24. Best case scenario: 2nd round in the playoffs. Worst case: high lottery pick in a better draft than this past year.

      My problem with Phil is the odds of the former are worse than the odds of the latter. I don’t think the current team has much more realistic upside then if we’d done nothing other than add a decent FA wing player.

    25. The worst case scenario to me is if Rose stays relatively healthy and produces 2000+ minutes of the same cruddy basketball he has played over the last two seasons, and the Knicks limp into an 8th seed, and Rose is rewarded with a huge extension. That’s the doomsday scenario to me.

    26. My problem with Phil is the odds of the former are worse than the odds of the latter. I don’t think the current team has much more realistic upside then if we’d done nothing other than add a decent FA wing player.

      I agree that if the Knicks had just kept last year’s team and added Courtney Lee and the Europeans, they’d be basically in the same boat that they are now with regards to wins in 2016-17, but with better future assets. However, this current team does have more star power, which might theoretically attract a Westbrook or a Paul. I don’t think the odds are nearly good enough for the moves to make sense, but I’m sure that was Jackson’s intent. Both versions of the team would look to be at best a second round exit, but the more famous team might make a second round exit look more appealing to free agents. It seems sad to suggest that NBA players are that shortsighted, but, well, they probably are.

    27. I guess I don’t see the sense in bringing in a “star” like Derrick Rose because you think that might somehow help attract his eventual replacement. Derrick Rose is really likely to help the Knicks lose a lot of basketball games, which would seem like a pretty obvious detriment to attracting the Westbrooks and Pauls of the league.

    28. “Come play with star player Derrick Rose, who is not on the team anymore.” I just don’t get that.

    29. worst case scenario is if KP goes down.. but aside from that we’re not going to be able to recover from noah going down…. that is going to torpedo any of this talk of playoffs or getting any nice FAs…

      the question is if phil still going to be here and if he is.. is he going to trash everything again…

    30. I guess I don’t see the sense in bringing in a “star” like Derrick Rose because you think that might somehow help attract his eventual replacement. Derrick Rose is really likely to help the Knicks lose a lot of basketball games, which would seem like a pretty obvious detriment to attracting the Westbrooks and Pauls of the league.

      I think it is more that Rose got them Noah, and so now they have Melo, KP and Noah to sell a star next year.

      I agree that it is most likely not going to work, but I think that’s at least the plan. Just like how Chicago hopes to use Dwyane Wade to lure the same guys to Chicago next year.

    31. “Come play with star player Derrick Rose, who is not on the team anymore.” I just don’t get that.

      I see Rose as a trial run, a “lab rat” if you will in this one year experiment. I know people here fear that he’ll play well enough to fool Phil into resigning him for big bucks. I’m not convinced of that at all, because I think Phil knows that while Rose is an upgrade at the point, he doesn’t solve all the team needs for the position. He’s not the draw.

      With that said, while it’d be an easy decision next summer if Rose blows this season, I’ll be rooting for Rose this year to perform well.

    32. In Knicks related news,Starbury believes that Dolan doesn’t influence Phil’s decisions.Plus, he expressed his admiration for the Zen master’s moves, especially the D Rose trade.

    33. “Come play with star player Derrick Rose, who is not on the team anymore.” I just don’t get that.

      You don’t get it because you are starting with a number of assumptions that the Knicks front office obviously does not share. If you are convinced that Rose is, and will forevermore be, an irredeemably washed-up .009 WS/48 shell of a basketball player, then obviously nothing about this summer makes sense. Phil Jackson clearly does not believe that. Neither, frankly, do I, but his opinion is more important.

      If I had to guess, do I think Phil believes that Rose is going to return to .200 WS/48 superstar form? No, I do not (believe it myself or think Phil believes it).

      I think, and I would guess the Knicks front office thinks, that Rose will be decent performer (say just .100 WS/48) with a lot of cache, and that a combination of factors–KP’s development, replacing Afflalo with Lee, the difference between Noah and Lopez (which I strongly believe is in our favor, last year’s numbers be damned) and perhaps most importantly, the upgrade from Fisher/Rambis to Hornacek, will combine to get us into the playoffs and help the team shed the loser stigma. And Rose will have served his dual purpose: 1) to immediately attract the kind of high-quality role players like Noah and Lee that contending teams need, and 2) to serve as a walking “your face here!” billboard aimed at Westbrook and Chris Paul.

      It’s an easy and obvious pitch to say “yeah, the team was pretty good with Derrick Rose at point,” but think of how much better we’ll be with you, a real star! It’s no coincidence that the roster is perfectly constructed for us to add an elite PG next summer and that our cap management has been geared toward making that possible.

    34. @37 What if we’re only a little better than last year? Like 37-ish wins. No playoffs, no good lottery pick, and not good enough to attract any good free agents?

    35. Stop. . .it’s just too soon. I need time to heal

      C’mon man, your bed wasn’t even cold from Cole’s departure before you jumped in the sack with Galloway!

    36. Then the plan will have failed?

      I’m not saying the plan (if my assumptions are correct) is foolproof. Rose or Noah could either play plenty and be awful, or get injured. Those are certainly possibilities. But the doom and gloom crowd take it as a given that that will come to pass and therefore question whether the Knicks have any plan at all. I believe they do have a plan, and it rides on Jackson’s confidence that we will avoid those eventualities. Everyone’s opinion boils down to their own belief about the relative likelihood of Rose and Noah playing enough productive minutes for us to win. Some are simply more optimistic than others.

    37. If I had to guess, do I think Phil believes that Rose is going to return to .200 WS/48 superstar form? No, I do not

      If you had to guess, do you think Phil knows what WS/48 is or whether a .009 score is good or bad?

    38. I will make a prediction now and y’all can interpret it however you like: Derrick Rose will be the starting point guard of the 2017-2018 New York Knicks.

    39. I’m on a pristine beach in the Caribbean sipping a tropical drink. Keep posting, guys!

    40. i honestly don’t think rose will be the starting pg by the asb….whether by injury or ineffectiveness….

    41. “Come play with star player Derrick Rose, who is not on the team anymore.” I just don’t get that.

      That isn’t the pitch at all.It is come play with Melo, a Unicorn and a healthy Noah. Looking reasonably objectively, the Knicks have one position with a long term solution of high end potential, Porzingis. Melo and hopefully a relatively healthy Noah lock up 2 spots of good play for the intermediate term. Lee brings competence for the intermediate term.

      The only way Rose gets extended is if her reverts back to an ~ .200 WS/48 player, which is an abject long shot, but one that does solve problems.

      A Rose playing to a league average level of play upgrades the team a lot with his ability to penetrate and make the defense react and may have some moderate value at the deadline.

      With a unicorn, two relatively healthy former “stars” and a competent 2 guard, Rose is merely a place holder for CP3 or Westbrook.

    42. C’mon man, your bed wasn’t even cold from Cole’s departure before you jumped in the sack with Galloway!

      Langston knew Cole. He knew what I was going through. It’s not the same as you all jumping on the bandwagon for the newest curly haired boytoy

    43. If you had to guess, do you think Phil knows what WS/48 is or whether a .009 score is good or bad?

      I would guess that he does know, yes. I would also guess that he considers a lot of other things when evaluating trading for a player like Rose. Does bringing in Rose keep Carmelo Anthony happy and engaged? How many win shares is that worth? Does Rose entice Noah who in turns entices Lee, neither of whom were a sure bet to join a team with Calderon and Grant at PG and Lopez already installed at Center? How many win shares is that worth? Does Rose’s expiring contract act as a gift certificate towards the all-you-can-eat PG buffet in next year’s free agency? Win shares obviously doesn’t reflect that.

      The only thing that would surprise me more than Phil Jackson being completely ignorant of even the most basic publicly available analytics if if Phik Jackson’s approach to roster construction started and ended with the advanced stats section of basketball-reference.com.

    44. Some of you should wash your mouths out with soap talking about the Zenmaster that way!

    45. Personally, idgaf if Phil knows what WS is. What I want to know is if the Knicks FO thought Rose was terrible last season.

    46. James Harden signed a 4 year extension in Houston worth $118M, but it’s more like a 2 year extension since the contract expires in 2020.

    47. Larry Sanders just tweeted out a shot from The Warriors (film).

      Next season is a waste of time

    48. More negativity! It never stops around here. Don’t you know it’s unhealthy?

    49. First of all, that’s not what the post above yours meant, and second of all it’s not true that negativity is necessarily unhealthy. There are many situations where realists do better than Pollyannas. Some of your posts are worse than Polyanna-ish. For example, you say Phil is a perfect GM and has never made a mistake. That’s not just optimistic, it’s manifestly wrong. No one is perfect and everyone makes mistakes.

    50. Reub is not a “real” poster, he’s basically some sort of parody/troll type character. You’ll notice his posts are devoid of any real analysis and are designed strictly to annoy.

      He’s best left ignored.

    51. I’m a real Knick fan who doesn’t appreciate constant pessimism about my team. It’s one thing if the team is playing poorly but this is the offseason when there is real hope for our future. And yes, Phil Jackson is a basketball genius albeit not a perfect one.

    52. I enjoy reading reub and his humorous trolling more than I’ve enjoyed watching the 2002-2016 New York Knicks.

    53. Reub, I believe you’re a real fan, and it’s nice to have an optimist here to counter balance the pessimists. I’m just suggesting you could argue more realistically sometimes. You’ll have more impact that way.

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