Knicks Morning News (2015.05.31)

  • [New York Times] Pelicans Hire Warriors Assistant Alvin Gentry as Coach (Sun, 31 May 2015 05:16:07 GMT)

    The New Orleans Pelicans have decided that 60-year-old NBA coaching veteran Alvin Gentry is the best candidate to mold a young roster featuring 22-year-old budding superstar Anthony Davis.

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | Pro Basketball: Ex-N.B.A. Player Is Accused of Fraud (Sun, 31 May 2015 04:18:15 GMT)

    Chris Gatling, a former N.B.A. star, was arrested on allegations he oversaw an online scheme using credit cards of people from across the country.

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    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    56 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2015.05.31)”

    1. June 2015…has there ever been a time of greater anticipation and uncertainty about the future of the Knicks? We have a high draft pick from a potentially strong draft class and a max plus amount of cap space. Beyond Melo, we have absolutely no idea what starting five will run out on the court for game 1.

      I suppose that for the optimists among us, we have receded a bit from the high water mark of seconds before the envelope for pick #4 was opened…or was it just before we won the two games at season’s end? But still, there’s some cause for hope.

      Here’s a rosy take on Jax and Fisher: both entered their respective positions with virtually zero experience. Both are highly intelligent and prideful guys. Both have just experienced professional failure and disgrace on a scale that they have never experienced before.

      Jax has his legacy on the line right now. No one can take his ringz away, but when the last thing you are remembered for is colossal failure and bungling, especially in the media capital of the nation, that sux. He also has a deep connection to Fisher, and knows that this year may make or break his future as a serious coaching candidate, or even a team executive.

      Fisher is no dummy. He figured out how to maximize the impact of his limited physical abilities to accomplish more professional success than most HOF players. He was entrusted by his colleagues with the leadership of the NBPA during a critical time. He knows what is at stake here, for him and for the franchise, and for Phil, the mentor who is handing him the torch. My guess is that he is busting his ass right now, trying to figure out how to be a better coach in today’s NBA.

      I can’t help but have faith in things being better next year than they are now, not in terms of wins and losses (not a high bar!) but in terms of managerial efficacy from the coach up. But that’s for June, and I guess through July’s FA period. Then we’ll have much more reality to go by.

    2. Hey, you know me, I’m not going to judge the guy one way or the other until this offseason is finished. If he hits a bunch of home runs and doubles, then I’m on board. If he doesn’t, then we’re not in for a fun next couple of years. I still have faith in the guy, but so much is riding on these next couple of months. It is really tense.

      As for Fisher, I agree that he’s a smart guy, but I don’t know beyond that – I really don’t know. He was pretty darn bad in year one. A lot worse than I expected. So, well, I dunno. I have a lot more faith in Jackson than Fisher. Not saying Fisher won’t eventually be a good coach, but, well, he has a waaaaays to go.

    3. The same was said about Rivers when his team lost 18 straight in Orlando. In fact, it was pretty much assumed after the Celts made the big 3 trade that he wouldn’t last very long.

      Fisher was definitely over his head for the time period where the team actually had expectations. But I think it says something when none of the players on a dreadful team ever seemed to undercut him, or when he never seemed to let the losing get to him. Frankly, I wonder whether Kerr could have handled it.

      I guess what I’m saying is that I didn’t see or hear anything that makes me believe that he won’t get any better. I don’t see a guy whose ceiling is Mike Woodson or Scott Brooks. On the other hand, I don’t see a guy who’s ceiling is anywhere near Kerr’s. Kerr has the makings of an all-time great coach written all over him. He made mostly great decisions as a gm and , well, the guy is just incredibly impressive. I’m not sure he would have had the patience to last long under the Dolan cloud, though.

    4. Sorry, that was 18 straight in Boston after a less than stellar stint in Orlando. The larger point being, it’s hard to judge a coach, particularly a first year coach, when the team is horrible to begin with. I was uncharacteristically pessimistic going into last season, predicting that the Knicks would not make the playoffs based on what I saw in the preseason, so nothing Fisher did or didn’t do had much impact on me. I also feel that Fisher did stick mainly with the triangle but incorporated some wrinkles as the season went on. I mean, what would another coach have done post Melo injure/JR&Shump trade? Played Cole more?

    5. Out of curiosity, what parts of Fisher’s tenure has he not performed well? I blame him least for this past season imo.

    6. @5 I agree, how can you judge Fisher with the roster he was given? And winning 2 games we wish he hadn’t, I’m not sure what he was supposed to do about that, play Cole at PG?

      Re: Kerr – he’s off to a great start, but let’s see him face a little adversity before we put him in the future HOF. The Warriors were relatively injury-free this year in one of the worst years for injuries we’ve ever seen (yes I know Bogut was in and out, but Curry, Thompson and Green played in almost every game) Then they were given huge breaks not having to play the Spurs or the Clips, going up against a depleted Grizz team and then playing a highly flawed Rockets team. And now they go into a Finals vs. a team with no Love and a probably not 100% Irving.

      So a great start for him, but a 1st year coach could not ask for more chips to fall his way.

    7. The same was said about Rivers when his team lost 18 straight in Orlando. In fact, it was pretty much assumed after the Celts made the big 3 trade that he wouldn’t last very long.

      Rivers won Coach of the Year his first season as a coach, taking a seemingly shitty Orlando team (seemingly because obviously no one properly rated Ben Wallace at the time) to nearly making the playoffs. So the same was definitely not said about Rivers.

    8. The Knicks are allegedly interested in Trey Lyles at the #4 spot. So I guess we won’t see Fisher improve as a coach, as the world might be ending suddenly at the end of June.

    9. Trey Lyles at #4 because he’d be “good in the triangle” would be a move that would rightfully be mocked by just about everybody in the world. It would be pretty safe to tune out the Knicks for the rest of Jackson’s tenure at that point.

    10. I don’t like Lyles in general, but I don’t think the Knicks would ever take him #4. I imagine that if they like him, they’re thinking trading down. It’s still a bad idea, but I’m just joking when I say they’ll take him #4. They’d never seriously do that (I might be trying to convince myself of that).

    11. Say what you want about Kerr being lucky, he has still done a masterful job. He was also an excellent GM and one of the better TV analysts I’ve seen. My only concern about him is he might be a bit too fiery but beyond that he’s been brilliant, esp for a rookie coach. Getting the first seed in the playoffs is not luck, and the great Pop couldn’t figure out how to beat the Pels to ice the 3 seed.

    12. I am perfectly content allowing Jackson to assemble his own group. He has played with, played against or coached about 2/3rd of the best players of all time so I’m guessing he has a pretty good idea of what a real basketball player looks like.

      If he thinks Lyles is a potentially outstanding player, I’ll assume he’s smart enough to trade down to where he can accumulate assets and not take him at 4.

      And I’m really not in a state of high dudgeon about his moves so far.

      The heralded efficiency king Chandler took his .212 ws/48 and led Dallas to precisely one more win vs 13/14. This is the same guy that got ass raped the last time the Knicks needed something out of him and he absolutely laid down last season. Good riddance!

      Everyone screams the Knicks only got Calderon and 2 picks. Calderon is an above average guard for his entire career and a great floor spacer to play with Melo as a great 3 point shooter. It is unfortunate he tweaked an Achilles tendon a week before the season and was never healthy with Melo. Well see if the picks have any value going forward. I’m 100% in gambling when I can play results.

      Shump netted us a #2 pick for a career ws/48 = .60 guy. He’s played all the way up to a .65 playing with the best team player of all time…. whoopee. JR was addition by subtraction and gives and 6M more in cap flexibility. No one is allowed to cry about JR

      Phil was correct in picking Kerr as his guy. He just couldn’t close the deal before a much greater opportunity can to Kerr.

      I’m not sure what he has done wrong so far. I’ll be happy to answer any Melo questions :-)

    13. everything that phil has said has led me to believe that he sort of gets it.. getting good two way players.. having patience.. having the framework for long term success…

      if he trades it for a pair of subpar veterans or trades down and grabs the no defense/suspect offense lyles or someone like that.. then well.. you know he was full of it… just look at what isiah’s tenure as knicks gm has done for his legacy… phil.. if he gives a damn about his name.. has a lot on the line…

      i wouldn’t put it past dolan to pull a dolan move come draft time either… everything is on the table at this juncture and all the beatwriters are exploiting it by fearmongering the fanbase into trey lyles/porzingis/hezonja…

    14. Holy shit. Look at this paragraph that Marc Berman just wrote:

      The Knicks and Love have been linked for a couple of years. Love has said playing for Phil Jackson would be intriguing. However, he will demand a maximum contract, and with Jackson hellbent on defensive big men such as LaMarcus Aldridge, Love may not be the top priority. However, a sign-and-trade with the Knicks’ No. 4-overall pick seems more plausible.

      I’ve always said that people who issue ultimatums to their team — “if they do “x” i’m going to be a denver nuggets fan” — I’ve always thought those people are delusional. But if we do a sign and trade to get a guy we can just SIGN I will absolutely lose my mind and probably stop watching basketball.

      Lamarcus Aldridge, “defensive big man”. Exqueeze me?

    15. I wouldn’t pay much attention to anything Berman says about basketball.

    16. @12

      I’m more or less in your camp. I think it’s theoretically possible would could have gotten back more for Chandler and Shump/JR, but if you aren’t getting back players you actually want long term, you are better off with just the cap space. People forget that cap space is an asset. So if a trade nets nothing but you cap space the following year, the player you eventually put into that cap space it what you got back for the trade.

      I think at best we can argue it would have been nice to get back a better pick for Shump/JR or just take a much longer view and trade Shump alone (and get back something better for him) and then suffer through JR for one more year.

      The big blow to the team (that was not Jackson’s fault) was falling to 4th. IMHO, this is a 3 player draft if you are looking for a potential game changer. Not getting one of either Towns, Okafor, or Russell is a HUGE bummer. I blame Fisher and our players for that. It was beyond idiotic to be going all out to win meaningless games.

      I like Winslow’s game a lot and think he’ll be a good player, but I don’t think the probability of him becoming a real star is as high as for the other 3.

      I wouldn’t touch Mudiay with a 10 foot pole. The Chinese pro league is terrible. Maybe he’ll turn out to be good, but I’d disregard his stats other than noting he wasn’t even a good shooter in that “no defense” league.

      WCS might turn out to be an elite defender, but his offensive game is so weak it’s hard to imagine him becoming a two way star.

      After that, unless someone knows something I don’t (which is a very high probability – lol) I’m not sure where we go to get a potential star. I do see anything obvious.

      I’m still sick over that lottery. #MEGAdisaster.

    17. I can’t even make sense out of what Berman’s talking about. The Knicks want Aldridge more, but Love wants more money, so they may trade their draft pick for Love? That’s what he claims “seems more plausible”? (What exactly happens to Aldridge in this #4 for Love scenario?)

    18. WCS might turn out to be an elite defender, but his offensive game is so weak it’s hard to imagine him becoming a two way star.

      His offensive game is going to be weak like Chandler’s and DeAndre Jordan’s. He’s going to dunk the ball a fuckton of times and be really efficient while doing so. He’s a terrible choice for the Triangle, but it’s becoming clear that the Triangle is a terrible choice to aggressively impose on a basketball team in 2015.

    19. He’s going to dunk the ball a fuckton of times and be really efficient while doing so

      Yeah, he’ll go 3 for 4 for 6 points and Wins Produced will say he’s a better scorer than some guy that gets 15-20 at average efficnecy. :-)

    20. Yeah, swapping Dalembert out for Chandler sure made a huge impact for Dallas. I especially liked how outperformed the relatively inefficient Dwight Howard.

    21. Uh oh, here comes another Chandler debate.

      And we were all getting along so well, it’s like the moment in Goodfellas where Pesci is walking away and Billy Batts says: “now go home and get your fucking shinebox”

    22. Well, Dallas did improve changing Dalembert with Chandler.

      What about the Knicks?

    23. Yeah, swapping Dalembert out for Chandler sure made a huge impact for Dallas. I especially liked how outperformed the relatively inefficient Dwight Howard.

      God damn that Tyson Chandler, always seeing to it that Rajon Rondo derails and Dirk Nowitzki ages!

    24. Apparently, a “fuckton” is not a very large number. If it were, a “fuckton of dunks” would result in a career playoff scoring average higher than Tyson’s 7.0 ppg…

    25. For God sake.
      4th pick should be- Russel, Mudiay, Okafor, or Towns.
      Dont even suggest any other name please. Not even trade scenarios.
      That 4 players should be our only choices.

    26. It’s awkward.
      But why do it feels that IF
      The LAKERS signs Love then traded #2 to Knicks for MELO with or w/o Randle. It feels that the Lakers team is a contender.
      But if the Knicks traded Kobe for their number 4 pick then we get Love. It feels that we will suck.
      Awkward feeling.

    27. “Well, Dallas did improve changing Dalembert with Chandler.”

      Right.

      -they are basically the same team with or without chandler. mediocre. good for making the playoffs with a slim fighting chance for advancing to 2nd round.

    28. “God damn that Tyson Chandler, always seeing to it that Rajon Rondo derails and Dirk Nowitzki ages!”

      Yeah, and Dirk and Rondo are the reason that Howard had his way with Chandler in that playoff series.

    29. So are we talking about the whole season, in which their struggles were obviously due to Rondo and Dirk? Or are we talking about this one five game series, where Dwight’s TS% and PPG were both somewhat significantly below his career averages?

    30. Right, in 33 mpg, Howard was held to 17 pts and 14 rebs on a 58% FG%. Nice job! Almost as good as he did against his prior playoff counterpart, Roy Hibbert.

    31. johnno
      May 31, 2015 at 10:30 pm
      Apparently, a “fuckton” is not a very large number.

      Apparently, Johnno wins the interwebz for at least one evening.

    32. Right, in 33 mpg, Howard was held to 17 pts and 14 rebs on a 58% FG%. Nice job! Almost as good as he did against his prior playoff counterpart, Roy Hibbert.

      His scoring was, as a whole, below his standards. What’d you want Tyson to do, hold him to zero?

    33. The heralded efficiency king Chandler took his .212 ws/48 and led Dallas to precisely one more win vs 13/14. This is the same guy that got ass raped the last time the Knicks needed something out of him and he absolutely laid down last season. Good riddance!

      I guess it’s easy for Knicks fans to forget that Chandler won a championship, and had 9 offensive rebounds in Dallas’s series shifting (they were down 2-1 having lost at home the game before) 3 point win in Game 4 against the heavily favored Heat.

      But sure, not being motivated by Mike “Vince Lombardi” Woodson is definitely Chandler’s career defining moment.

    34. But sure, not being motivated by Mike “Vince Lombardi” Woodson is definitely Chandler’s career defining moment.

      People have a weird obsession with pretending Chandler is some replaceable player. It’s generally the same people who will make all kinds of excuses for Melo’s 51% career TS in the playoffs. It’s weird.

    35. But sure, not being motivated by Mike “Vince Lombardi” Woodson is definitely Chandler’s career defining moment.

      His career defining moment as a Knick was getting bum-rushed by Hibbert in the Indiana series. It was nice he contributed to another team 4 years ago, but he certainly isn’t the same player today and that is why trading him for Calderon and 2 second round picks was not the crime against humanity many make it out to be.

    36. We traded Chandler for two players who had high WP/48. So in essence yes Chandler was replaceable. The problem was the triangle. If Chandler stayed we’d get to see him hoist 5-10 Cole-esque hook shots a game. His numbers this year would look a lot more like Dalembert’s.

    37. It was nice he contributed to another team 4 years ago, but he certainly isn’t the same player today

      Well, his 2015 playoff numbers were almost identical to his 2011 championship numbers. Exact same TS%, exact same rebounding% (while actually increasing his usage).

      Tyson Chandler is not some loser that kept the Knicks from hoisting a banner at MSG. That narrative is ridiculous.

      The real narrative with a Tyson Chandler (and DeAndre Jordan) is that he was pretty pedestrian his first couple of years in the league before making leaps in his mid-twenties. Unfortunately, the Melo Knicks don’t have the patience to wait for that, so “The Next Tyson Chandler” will almost certainly become that for another team, not the Knicks.

    38. Tyson Chandler is not some loser that kept the Knicks from hoisting a banner at MSG. That narrative is ridiculous.

      Sound the sirens…. strawman alert.

    39. People have a weird obsession with pretending Chandler is some replaceable player. It’s generally the same people who will make all kinds of excuses for Melo’s 51% career TS in the playoffs. It’s weird.

      Uh no. Chandler is supposedly the god of efficiency and center play.

    40. Uh no. Chandler is supposedly the god of efficiency and center play.

      Well, he did set the all-time single season TS% record and has 3 0f the top 10 seasons( yes, I know, anyone tall could do that they just don’t want to because reasons). So I don’t know what your standards are for deities but he is pretty damn efficient!

    41. Yea a mark Ryan Hollins topped in 2013

      A glorious 482 minutes, those were.

    42. So Chandler, as always, never has to worry about getting criticized, so long as he plays the role of the ultimate cherry-picker. He’ll never get criticized by the WoW crowd for averaging 4 less rebounds than his counterpart, or 2 less blocks, or one less assist and steal, so long as he keeps on padding his efficiency stats, despite the fact that his team gets outscored in 4 out of 5 games. His team needed more Chandler buckets, and he couldn’t give them to the team in their time of need. The buck gets passed to his teammates, or to his coach for not being able to figure out how to get him more lobs and putbacks.

      “His scoring was, as a whole, below his standards. What’d you want Tyson to do, hold him to zero?”

      As a guy who is healthy, in the end of his prime, a recent DPOY at 7’1″, I’d expect more blocks, steals and rebounds, and significantly less from Howard. He was substantially outplayed on both ends. But yeah, let’s continue making excuses for his historically low usage% among starting-level players.

      “But sure, not being motivated by Mike “Vince Lombardi” Woodson is definitely Chandler’s career defining moment.”

      So it’s Woodson’s fault for Tyson “not being motivated?” More excuse making.

    43. I ran a player comparison between Demarre Carroll’s and Cleanthony Early’s rookie years. Does anyone else see the same upside for Cle?

      http://bkref.com/tiny/3jwht

      The differences in the numbers are that Cle played more per game, shot more, shot threes (6 all season for Carroll), rebounded less and committed twice as many turnovers in similar minutes overall. They did reasonably close steal, ast and blk numbers. I don’t know that one could draw any conclusion either way other than saying there are rookies who don’t do so well in limited time that have become solid NBA players.

    44. “I guess it’s easy for Knicks fans to forget that Chandler won a championship, and had 9 offensive rebounds in Dallas’s series shifting (they were down 2-1 having lost at home the game before) 3 point win in Game 4 against the heavily favored Heat”
      I guess it’s easy for Chandler apologists to forget that, in the series shifting Game 6 against the Pacers, Chandler torched Hibbert for 2 points and 6 rebounds, while holding Hibbert to 21 and 12. But I guess that Chandler did win that series against the Heat all by himself by averaging 9 points and 8 boards a game. He had to because he got no help from that stiff Nowitzki, who loafed his way through the series by averaging 26 and 10.

    45. I think one pretty good argument that Tyson Chandler was valuable to the Knicks was that they immediately started to suck giant elephant balls the instant he got hurt in 2013-2014, then went into permanent elephant ball-suck mode when he was traded away. Maybe just maybe they missed having a guy who averaged a double-double with a .700 TS% in the lineup. But yeah, Roy Hibbert something something.

    46. Really guys, who the hell had a good series against the Pacers in 2013?

      Copeland? Prigioni?

      Melo and Chandler were injured and beyond awful. Let’s not forget Amare also.

      Discussing that dreadful series is pointless. Even worse if you consider that it lead us to signing Bargnani.

      The point is that the Mavs improved, even if by a tic, and lost to the “deeply flawled” 2nd seed in the west, while the Knicks went the worst season of the franchise history.

      I know that there are plenty of reasons for that, but the “Chandler is easily replaceble” narrative doesn’t stick.

    47. “the Knicks was that they immediately started to suck giant elephant balls the instant he got hurt in 2013-2014”

      What about when he got hurt the year before and didnt miss a beat? In 2013 JR was hurt and Amare was hurt to start the year along with Tyson, maybe that had some impact?

    48. “Really guys, who the hell had a good series against the Pacers in 2013?”
      You’re right. Don’t ever blame Chandler. Many of you think he was the best player on the team. Yet, he pulled a complete no-show and made Roy Hibbert look like Wilt, but he wasn’t at all responsible for the team losing a close series. He won the championship for the Mavs with no help from Nowitzki, but somehow lost this year to the Rockets because Nowitzki got old. You guys crack me up. I’m surprised that you haven’t figured out a way to blame Melo for the Mavs losing to the Rockets.

    49. He’ll never get criticized by the WoW crowd

      I am not a member of the WoW crowd at all, and assuming that I am just because I try to explain the value of Chandler shows that you probably are not open to being convinced that you are wrong (and are, in fact, just trolling the board which I don’t really mind because it’s somewhat sporting and benign, even if ultimately pointless:)

      As for WoW, I use it at times when I post because others here do and I try to speak the language of the board, but I base very little of my opinions on it. I watched Chandler play here for several years and concluded that he was extremely good, and more valuable to a team than what Carmelo Anthony primarily does, which I find boring and counterproductive by comparison.

    50. I used Wow as a catch-all for metrics that overvalue low-volume efficient scoring.

      My issue with Chandler is that he simply can’t ever be counted on to score. If he goes 3-4 with 5 OREBS, he gets more credit for a win but less blame for a loss than the offensive workhorse who goes 13-30 with 3 OREBS. Howard has to grab more boards, block more shots, etc to put up the same WP because he has the temerity to attempt more than just uncontested dunks and putbacks.

    51. C’mon, you guys sound like the knicks could use a solid 7’1″ defensive minded guy in the paint that’s disciplined to take high percentage shots.
      Besides, TC got outplayed by Hibbert one series. Lucky to get rid of him.

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