Knicks Morning News (2015.05.22)

  • [New York Times] In This Generation, 3-Pointers Are Paramount in the Playoffs (Fri, 22 May 2015 06:36:48 GMT)

    Those notable names of the past, the ones still insisting that NBA playoff offenses must pound the ball inside, have been awfully quiet this week.

  • [New York Times] Warriors Survive Harden Onslaught to Forge 2-0 Lead (Fri, 22 May 2015 06:21:45 GMT)

    The Golden State Warriors survived a stirring James Harden-inspired fightback to take command of the Western Conference Final with a 99-98 Game Two victory over the Houston Rockets on Thursday.

  • [New York Times] Warriors Prevail After Rockets’ 17-Point Rally Isn’t Enough (Fri, 22 May 2015 04:11:16 GMT)

    Stephen Curry made five of 11 3-point shots to help Golden State take a 2-0 series advantage over Houston, which was led by James Harden’s 38 points.

  • [New York Times] Warriors Hold Off Harden, Rockets 99-98 to Take 2-0 Lead (Fri, 22 May 2015 03:57:57 GMT)

    Stephen Curry scored 33 points to turn back another spectacular performance by James Harden, and the Golden State Warriors held off the Houston Rockets 99-98 on Thursday night to take a 2-0 lead in the Western Conference finals.

  • [New York Times] Liberty’s Isiah Thomas Draws Attention, and Questions (Fri, 22 May 2015 00:59:07 GMT)

    Eight years after a court found that Thomas had harassed a female executive when he was the Knicks’ president, he is officially in charge of a W.N.B.A. team.

  • [New York Times] Howard in Starting Lineup for Rockets in Game 2 vs Warriors (Fri, 22 May 2015 00:57:47 GMT)

    Houston Rockets center Dwight Howard appears ready to play in Game 2 of the Western Conference finals against the Golden State Warriors, though he’s not ready to say as much.

  • [New York Times] Gentry Interviews With Pelicans, Still Focused on Warriors (Fri, 22 May 2015 00:31:36 GMT)

    Golden State Warriors coach Steve Kerr has acknowledged that top assistant Alvin Gentry interviewed for the vacant New Orleans Pelicans’ job.

  • [New York Post] How LeBron has raised J.R. Smith’s game to another level (Fri, 22 May 2015 02:29:25 -0400)

    J.R. Smith drew comparisons to Dennis Rodman this offseason — both from Knicks president Phil Jackson and Rodman himself. Now Smith may have met his version of Michael Jordan. "There…

  • [New York Post] There’s no guarantee Lakers will draft Towns or Okafor: reports (Fri, 22 May 2015 02:18:27 -0400)

    There are multiple reports Lakers brass isn't locked in on either of the draft's top-2 projected picks, big men Karl-Anthony Towns or Jahlil Okafor. The reports have suggested intrigue in…

  • [New York Daily News] Rehabbing Carmelo Anthony checks in on Liberty (Fri, 22 May 2015 02:42:34 GMT)

    A rehabbing Carmelo Anthony briefly made an appearance at the Liberty practice on Thursday at the team’s Westchester facility.

  • [New York Daily News] New Liberty president Isiah Thomas won’t rule out NBA return (Fri, 22 May 2015 02:27:04 GMT)

    Isiah Thomas hasn’t spoken with Phil Jackson yet, aware that a conversation between the two could fuel speculation he’s angling for his job.

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    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    119 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2015.05.22)”

    1. interesting article from hoopshype on Mudiay–
      http://hoopshype.com/columns/david-nurse/emmanuel-mudiay-made-in-china

      basically – very high basketball IQ, great intangibles, already advanced change-of-pace game (ie. something that took Westbrook and Wall years to develop in the pros). shot is not broken.

      Wally Szcerbiak said on the radio yesterday that Mudiay reminds him Dwyane Wade. We could use something like a 19 year old Dwyane Wade.

      So yes – I’m 100% fine with either Mudiay, or Winslow, and would probably be fine with WCS too.

    2. (not even Golden State could do that, with all the silly hype around Curry’s supposed greatness)

      What does this even mean? Which total are you considering for Golden State? Also: “supposed greatness”? Are we dicking around just for fuck’s sake? Have you seen him play? Have you seen the numbers (analytics included) he posted this year? “Supposed”?

      Tell the truth: you are the one who suggested Isola’s tweet about Stephen Curry’s daughter being named Riley and not Jackson (yup, that tweet really happened), as if the name was chosen in honor of Pat Riley…

    3. “Fisher’s expert coaching will easily double this season’s total wins (not even Golden State could do that, with all the silly hype around Curry’s supposed greatness).”
      Gotta give Luke credit. He’s right. Curry was not able to double the Warriors win total from 54 (or whatever it was last year) to 108 this year — although, if you include the playoffs, it appears that he might actually come close to accomplishing that.

    4. Also, to be fair, Milwaukee easily doubled the wins from last season, and in that case all it took was a competent coach. Doubling 17 wins is not a hard feat, honestly. Especially in the East.

    5. Guys, it is clear that CL is trolling and is being 110% sarcastic here. I am sick of that dipshit so please let’s steer the conversation away from his remarks.

    6. Nope.

      Its a testament to how good Howard and Mr Crunchwraps were last night that they almost overcame an epic shitshow from Josh Smith. 1 rebound! Bargs would have had 3.

    7. If you put Bargs on that Rockets team you’d have a really serious contender. He spaces the floor!

    8. “Towns, Okafor and other players have holes in their games that may very well prevent them from becoming stars, but Mudiay’s transformation is most amazing because it’s happening here, in front of our eyes, without ever having to play a minute or score a basket. He fits the Triangle perfectly, which is a bonus.”
      Until now, I was a little upset about the Knicks’ slippage in the lottery. I feel much better after this post. Thanks!

    9. Jowles, you best bring your A-game this offseason; someone is gunning hard for the notredumbass title.

    10. Wally Szcerbiak said on the radio yesterday that Mudiay reminds him Dwyane Wade… So yes – I’m 100% fine with Mudiay

      What does Szcerbiak know that others don’t? Has he seen him play? Worked him out? Scouted him in China? Or is he basing his opinion on the same highlight reel everybody else is?

    11. I’ll disregard the sarcastic remarks and focus on the Hoopshype article about Mudyia. It’s a lot of what I saw in the various Youtube videos I’ve watched after searching for his name. Yep, Marbury certainly schooled him in his first game.

      First, a note here about what I’ve seen of Marbury. He’s improved much since he left the Knicks. Yeah, go ahead and laugh. Take the former all-star head case and detox him. Now inject humble pie into those veins. Marbury is a man who was as beaten down as a person could get. I was sure he wasn’t going to be alive today. He’s added maturity and savvy to his game.

      Now back to Mudyia. He looked like a 19-year old kid that was sent to a place as foreign as Mars and he adapted. Subsequent videos showed how good he is. He passes first and has excellent court vision. He crashes the boards. He boxes out. He drives the lane hard and breaks down the defense. Yes, he needs to work on making his shot more consistent, but he can shoot.

      Most important, I think he’s humble and from what I’ve read, he’s a eager and quick study. Those are both critical qualities needed to thrive in NY. I’ve been looking at Mudiay as a pick for a while now:
      12-18-2014 post and
      1-1-2015 post. Going back to those posts, I stepped back after some criticism because, well, I was shot down and hey, I’m not as much of an talent expert as some others here.

      Yet there’s one thing I’ll keep saying until I’m blue (and orange) in the face. I want a point guard desperately. That’s been our biggest failure. Screw the triangle nonsense about not needing one. I want exactly what this player brings. Maybe he won’t be that, but I want a legit PG. Also, I think we can get a big that fits our scheme. If we draft a PG (Russell or Mudiay) and sign free agents like…

    12. I know I should take the troll bait, but CL, you do realize that Dwade, Chris Paul, Westbrook, and Seth Curry were all picked between 3 and 10 in their drafts, right?

      God forbid Knicks fans have hope that a #4 pick in a top heavy draft might turn into a good or maybe great player. Mudiay and Russell are the top guards in this draft and we’re most likely going to draft one of them. Could either/both of them be busts? Sure. But so could Towns and Okafor. My gut tells me if the Knicks got the second or first pick you’d still be trolling this blog.

      At one point Mudiay was considered the top draft prospect of this class. The only reason he’s not top is because he went to China. And we might not even get him! The Lakers and 76ers could very well take Russell and Mudiay, leaving us with “only” Okafor. And I’m sure if that happens you’ll come onto this blog and gleefully troll about how Phil failed to get the guard he was supposed to drag and got stuck with Okafor who is obviously a bad player because he wasn’t one of the top 3 picks.

      Give it a rest, bro. You’re act is stale.

    13. Yeah I find the argument that since Wilson Chandler, JR Smith and Marbury all did well in China it somehow diminishes that league. Um, Marbury was a multiple all star. JR Smith is playing on a team that could win a championship. Wilson Chandler had very good years in the NBA. If you put any of those guys on an NCAA team right now they would probably dominate college ball.

    14. Wally Szczerbiak ?@wallyball 24m

      Great trade by #Knicks!! Andrea Bargnani is a 7 foot #flamethrower Former #1 pick loaded with talent significantly upgrades roster.

    15. Mudiay also went to Dion Sanders’ school, Prime Prep, which was shutdown by the state. There may have been some issues with his eligibility. I have nothing to say about Mudiay the basketball player, but going to China and getting paid makes a lot of sense

    16. I wouldn’t trust anything Wally Szczerbiak has to say about Mudiay, but really, there’s not much more any of us need to know about Mudiay except that he’s, at worst, going to be a decent NBA player and at best, he’ll be a star. It all comes down to whether he can improve his shooting. Plenty of players have done so, while plenty of players have not. The players who did became superstars, the players who didn’t, well, didn’t. But even the ones who didn’t remain valuable players. Mudiay is not going to be a bust. His skills simply do not translate into anything but professional success. He just might not ever be better than a better version of Tyreke Evans. At #4, that’s not bad. But yes, of course with how terrible the Knicks are, I can certainly see how suffering through an awful season and then ending up with “just” a better version of Tyreke Evans could be annoying.

      But don’t worry about Mudiay being a bust. He’s not going to be a bust. Okafor has a bigger chance of being a bust than Mudiay, and Okafor is not going to be a bust at all.

      Bassy Telfair has had a long NBA career. Think about that. Certain skills just translate extremely well to the NBA, and Mudiay has those skills in spades. Very athletic guards who can break down defenses and know how to pass will always make it in the NBA.

    17. Captain Luke, nobody here is labeling any of the top picks as a star. Jeeze. What we are doing is looking at the potential draft picks and trying to see if they can be useful players on the Knicks going forward. Our choices are limited by picking 4th. So, assuming that Towns, Okafor and Russell are gone, who do we select at 4? Better yet, who do YOU select at #4?

    18. “Wally Szcerbiak said on the radio yesterday that Mudiay reminds him Dwyane Wade.”
      Based on what I’ve seen /heard from Wally-ball over the last couple years, his thought process went something like this — “Hmm. I read somewhere that Mudiay is 6’5″ and he’s not a great three point shooter. Hey, Dwyane Wade is about that height and he’s not a great three point shooter. THAT”S IT!! He’s the next Dwyane Wade.” I’m not down on Mudiay, but Wally’s enthusiasm is not the reason why…

    19. I don’t think anyone called Cleanthony Early a steal. People though he could be a potential steal. I still have hope for him because I thought he would be a project. By definition, any 2nd round pick that becomes serviceable is a steal.

      As for what we’re looking at to evaluate players, I’ve found that most of the posters here look at film, stats and listen to everything they can get their hands on. In other words, if there’s something that gives us insight into a player, we’ll pay attention. Aside from looking into a crystal ball, that’s all we can go by.

    20. You could have looked at Cleanthony’s age and production and concluded he was a bad bet to be a productive NBA player. Or as a certain handsome bastard put it on draft night “the case for early is he played well for 3 games in March. He’s probably going to be a bad NBA player.”

    21. Based on what I’ve seen /heard from Wally-ball over the last couple years, his thought process went something like this — “Hmm. I read somewhere that Mudiay is 6’5? and he’s not a great three point shooter. Hey, Dwyane Wade is about that height and he’s not a great three point shooter. THAT”S IT!! He’s the next Dwyane Wade.” I’m not down on Mudiay, but Wally’s enthusiasm is not the reason why…

      Yeah, I think that’s it exactly. So while Wally saying nice things about Mudiay don’t make me think any less of Mudiay, nor do they really have any effect either way.

    22. Yeah I find the argument that since Wilson Chandler, JR Smith and Marbury all did well in China it somehow diminishes that league. Um, Marbury was a multiple all star. JR Smith is playing on a team that could win a championship. Wilson Chandler had very good years in the NBA. If you put any of those guys on an NCAA team right now they would probably dominate college ball.

      They didn’t do well there. They were putting up “superstar” stats. The Chinese league is clearly massively below European basketball and may not even be up to late round NCAA tournament level.

    23. Yeah, I think that’s it exactly. So while Wally saying nice things about Mudiay don’t make me think any less of Mudiay, nor do they really have any effect either way.

      I desperately want to like Wally, but he massively overvalues points per game and is way too much of a homer for me. I know that’s partly his job, but he could find the upside of a funeral. I’d rather hear what Clyde has to say.

    24. Well, it just might be a moot point, since Laker insider types are still saying they are not 100% sure they’re taking a big. probably is just talk but if they took one of the guards it would make it more likely one of the bigs would slide us since Philly seems less likely to draft another big. you never know with Hinkie though.

    25. I desperately want to like Wally, but he massively overvalues points per game and is way too much of a homer for me. I know that’s partly his job, but he could find the upside of a funeral. I’d rather hear what Clyde has to say.

      Yeah, Wally seems like a really nice guy, but boy, his analysis is weak.

    26. The Chinese league is clearly massively below European basketball and may not even be up to late round NCAA tournament level.

      It’s probably massively below European basketball but I’m not so sure it’s worse than NCAA D1. I don’t think you can underestimate that it’s MEN playing in these professional leagues, not 18-21 year olds. The talent in China is probably much lower than Euroleague or high level D1 but the level of play/physicality is not necessarily so.

      28 year old Wilson Chandler would be by far the best player in college basketball. it wouldn’t even be close.

    27. Philly seems less likely to draft another big. you never know with Hinkie though.

      It wouldn’t surprise me if Hinkie offers Embiid – NYK #4 pick. After all he was shopping Embiid last season. I hope Phil resists the temptation because Embiid’s got head, back, and foot issues.

    28. Josh Harrelson was player of the year in China. ’nuff said.

      ” The fastest guard in the draft. He’s strong, athletic and has improved his jump shot”. Guess who this is referring to? Raymond Felton. Mudiay’s ceiling is Ray Freakin’ Felton!

      Still not convinced? Well click HERE to view all the immortal guards whose FT% less than 60% in their first year. Trying to fix Mudiay’s jump shot would be like trying to fix Barkley’s golf swing.

    29. I’d make that Embiid-4th pick swap in 1 second, assuming he passes his physical.

      Assuming Minny takes Towns, I think it’s actually possible the Lakers pass on Okafor. They have Randle pencilled in at the 4 already, and he’s considered to be an average defender at best. Putting Randle next to Okafor would probably make for a pretty ugly defensive team, worse than they already are. They might be better off chasing one of the FA bigs like Robin Lopez or Koufos and drafting one of the guards.

      (of course one could make the same argument for the Knicks)

    30. “since Laker insider types are still saying they are not 100% sure they’re taking a big. probably is just talk but if they took one of the guards it would make it more likely one of the bigs would slide us since Philly seems less likely to draft another big.”
      After all of the wailing and gnashing of teeth over the fact that we slipped to #4 and will miss out on Towns and Okafor, it would be really funny if the Lakers and Sixers take guards and one of the bigs slips to the Knicks. My bet is that, if that happens, half of us will be ecstatic that we just got the second coming of Ewing and the other half will be moaning that he can’t defend (if it’s Okafor) or he’s got a weak low post game (if it’s Towns). By draft day, I will have convinced myself that Porzingas is a future hall of famer and I will be pissed that we missed out on him.

    31. Still not convinced? Well click “HERE to view all the immortal guards whose FT% less than 60% in their first year. Trying to fix Mudiay’s jump shot would be like trying to fix Barkley’s golf swing/

      Your link goes nowhere, but I would guess there are very very few 19 year olds on that list.

      I don’t know the answer to this but I wonder how many guards who start out as bad FT shooters actually stay bad shooters? Of course you have the Rondos of the world, but FT shooting seems to be something that gets better unless you have ginormous hands and/or don’t work at it.

    32. “Guess who this is referring to? Raymond Felton.”
      Shockingly, Ray-Ray has one of the fastest 3/4 court sprint times in the history of the combine — 2/10 of a second faster than John Wall.

    33. Josh Harrelson was player of the year in China. ’nuff said.

      “While playing in China, Harrellson averaged 22.3 points, 18.2 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 1.5 blocks and 1.2 steals to win the NBL Player of the Year award.[40]”

    34. Citing Felton is a perfect example of how safe of a pick Mudiay is. Felton was not a bust, either. Dude’s been in the league for a decade (and will be in the league for at least eleven years), and that’s with him being out of shape 60% of his time in the NBA. That’s because his skills are skills that keep you in the NBA. Felton may soon eat his way out of the NBA, but his skills are precisely those that keep you in the pros. If you can break down defenses and make good passes, you’ll stick in the NBA.

    35. The problem with the story of the Lakers not taking Okafor/Towns is that they are extremely high on Clarkson at PG. Unless they have some sort of “wink wink” deal with a player like Marc Gasol and have their big man, they are drafting a big man.

    36. They’re high on Clarkson as a guard, period. They played a lot of Lin/Clarkson pairings, so I think they’d be more than comfortable with Russell and Mudiay paired with Clarkson. Both Russell and Mudiay can play off guard, as can Clarkson.

      That said, yeah, they’re not taking a guard. But I don’t think it’s because of Clarkson, I think it’s because the bigs are just too good to pass up on.

    37. Right, Ray wasn’t a Bargnani caliber bust. He had a nice long career as an averagish NBA player. But he was also not a great use of a lottery pick.

    38. captain luke is a moron and should be banned–both for the incessant trolling and for the fact that, every time you ask a direct question, he says clearly evasive shit like this:

      I don’t know who I’d select at #4. I would have to go look beyond the spin offered by player agents, scouts with an agenda, misleading highlight reels, gaudy numbers from an inferior league, etc.

      Maybe after that, Mudiay still emerges as our best choice. Then I’d go with that.

      he never puts his chips on the table and mistakes that for assuming he knows better than the people who do here, when one of the major aspects of this board is to discuss the most optimal outcomes for the knicks future. He’s always arguing in bad faith and is a coward.

      On topic:
      Im fine w Mudiay at 4 but I’d be finer with Okafor and maybe with Porzingis who has more bust potential than both I guess. Let’s hope the Lakers are really into taking a mysterious guard with upside. If Towns dropped to #4 I’d probably find a balcony to jump off of so I could wake myself up from the dream I was having.

    39. They played a lot of Lin/Clarkson pairings,

      Speaking of Lin, I’m still hoping that D’Antoni coaches in Denver and gets to work with Lin, Chandler, and Gallo. Then if Dolan does one more thing that makes me ill, I can organize a Knicks boycott and switch my allegiance to the Nuggets until we run Dolan out of town.

    40. Towns is not dropping to #4.

      If there is a big that will be available for the 4th pick, will be Okafor.

    41. While that won’t happen, Okafor sliding to #4 would be astonishingly awesome.

      “But crap, we already traded the pick for Tiago Splitter!”

    42. if the Lakers would rather have a guard than Okafor or Towns, my guess is they will try to trade down rather than just pick the guard with #2. For example, they could make a deal with the Knicks that’s something like “we’ll pick one of the two big men and trade him to you for Mudiay and THJ if you can draft Mudiay”. The question is what sort of compensation they would want in addition to pick #4. I could see giving them one or two of the second round picks we recently acquired instead of THJ to make that deal. This assumes the Knicks want a big man more than a guard. Of course, they could trade with Phillie too, but Phillie probably wants a guard more than a big man.

    43. OK say we pick Mudinay at 4.

      Then with the Nuggets on the clock, they give us a call and offer Lawson and the #9 for Mudinay and TH2.

      4 out of these 5 are still on the board: Johnson, Lyles, Turner, WCS, and Kaminsky

      What do you do?

    44. Lawson makes $12M a year, is signed for the next two years and is reportedly unhappy with the Nuggets. I think that would be a steep price for him and might mess up the Knicks salary cap strategy. If we really wanted to do this, maybe we could say “we’ll do the deal if Kaminsky is available at #9, and you take Calderon and Smith back”. Then our salary structure doesn’t go up, we get a big and a reasonable point guard.

    45. You could have looked at Cleanthony’s age and production and concluded he was a bad bet to be a productive NBA player. Or as a certain handsome bastard put it on draft night “the case for early is he played well for 3 games in March. He’s probably going to be a bad NBA player.”

      I’m calling BS on this piece of revisionist history. The case wasn’t based on “3 games” but this: 3rd team AP All American, TS% = 63% as a senior and 38% from 3 with 46% of his shot coming from 3 for all you efficiency-o-philes! …..and he had a truly great tourney game vs, Julius Randle and Willie Cauley Stein and UK scoring 31 on 17 shots for all the efficiency-o-philes with 7 boards in 39 minutes.

      I’m sorry he needed knee surgery in November which ruined his rookie season and maybe he will be out of the league in 10 minutes, but to say looking at his production and saying he’d be a bad bet at 34 is just balderdash.

    46. The problem with the story of the Lakers not taking Okafor/Towns is that they are extremely high on Clarkson at PG. Unless they have some sort of “wink wink” deal with a player like [STRIKE]Marc Gasol[/STRIKE] Kevin Love and have their big man, they are drafting a big man.

      FYP

    47. Captain Luke wins the William Safire “Nattering Naybob of Negativism” award !!!

    48. Captain Luke wins the William Safire “Nattering Naybob of Negativism” award !!!

      this is like when the previous winner of the Masters puts the green jacket on the current winner

    49. “Remember how Cleanthony Early was last year’s draft’s “steal”? I prefer not to fool myself. Don’t find joy in that. Blame me for that.”

      Your sarcastic hyperbole is nauseating. The draft “steal” hype was simply that he was projected in many mock drafts as a first rounder and dropped into the second round. The narrative about his question marks, mainly that he was a tweener with a power PF’s game in a wing SF’s body (Kenny Walker, anyone?)

      Hardly anyone here talked of him as a future star, and most HOPED (but did not predict) that he would be an end-of-rotation player at worst.

      But again, you make sickening overgeneralizations, which draw predictable fire, which result in you insulting other people’s intelligence.

      Yet someone asks you a simple question: who would you pick at #4? and you give a bullshit wishy-washy answer; while at the same time you implore others to grow a pair of balls.

    50. Ooh, a lottery-pick guard prospect with a 57% FT percentage?

      Intrigue! Upside! Potential!

      I’m all-in!

    51. I’m not sure you know what revisionist means Bob

      You could have looked at Cleanthony’s age and production and concluded he was a bad bet to be a productive NBA playe

      I’m pretty sure I do :-) That handsome bastard wasn’t you, was it?

      Anyone who looks at Early’s production via advanced stats and/or the “eye test” (led his team to undefeated regular season and saved his best effort for the best competition vs Randle and Stein vs UK) and intimated his “production” made him a “bad bet” is revising history by definition.

      That is, unless you think TS% = 63% and WS/40 = .246 suck…..

    52. So, the “We’d patiently sit through a five year rebuild” crowd has given up on Early already? That makes sense since we gave up on Hardaway at age 22. By December, we will have concluded that Thanasis is a stiff too. Maybe now is a good time to point out that Everybody Loves Draymond was a tweener who did nothing as a 23 year old rookie and DeMarre Carroll took five years to become productive. But let’s give up on all of our young players.

    53. Bob, that was me copying and pasting what I wrote minutes before we picked Cleanthony. Not sure what’s revisionist about that. Here is what I wrote right after we took him:
      Good shooter, bad A/TO numbers, bit of a tweener, poor defensive stats, 23 years old. I mean, 2nd round pick-but I think we could have done better. Would be thrilled to be wrong.

      Cle scored well as an older player in a shit conference and didn’t show other abilities that would translate to the pros. Yes, he’s probably not as bad as he was last year, but I would be pleasantly surprised if he develops into an average pro

    54. captain luke is a moron and should be banned–both for the incessant trolling and for the fact that, every time you ask a direct question, he says clearly evasive shit

      @52 – I would say that’s excessive. Let’s welcome anyone who wants to discuss the Knicks but they should understand that when they say something that others disagree with, that they should be ready for the shitstorm of criticism that’s coming their way.Yeah, he evaded my question, but only to underscore his primary concern (and misunderstanding) that people were elevating an unknown draft prospect to all-star levels.

      Mudiay has played 12 in China, shooting 57.4 from the free-throw line and 34.2% from 3-point range. He is being touted as a “won’t be a bust” prospect.

      @33 – Capt’n, I think poor free throw shooting is a flaw. NBA 3-point % average is 35% (just so we’re on the same page). I think the word “bust” needs to be defined. “Bust” is someone who just can’t ever find any role or success in the NBA. I agree with what Brian Cronin said. Unless he gets hurt, there are too many good things we’ve heard about him that project him to be at least an average NBA player. But maybe you’re thinking that a 4th overall pick better be an all-star or else he’s a bust. I can see that. If so then we disagree about the definition. So, Mike Sweetney and Frederick Weis are busts. Chaning Frey and Iman Shumpert are not.

    55. Times square tarot-teller: “I see a time of great change in your life.”
      Knickerblogger know-it-all: “I predict irrational exuberance from pseudonymous knicks fans on the internet several days after a big draft day.”
      Subway sandwichboarder: “The End Is Near! Repent!”
      Catcalling captain: “The End Is Near! Repent!”

    56. @68 Right?! One of the points of taking the long term rebuild concept is allowing your players to develop. And, let’s all be real here. Rarely do you get a rook who’s coming into the league and dropping 20+ a game, especially when they’re a 19 year old. Especially to have those stats translate into actual wins. Speculation and making snap judgements on children. I get it. We’re all going to do it, because it’s fun. But let’s just give a player, let’s just say, 2 years before we blindfold him and drop him out of the back of a moving van in the Lincoln Tunnel.

    57. I really like Lawson, but he’s another guard that makes next to no sense if we’re going to be running the triangle. Plus, getting a guy who wants to run, run, run when you’re building around Melo on the wing makes no sense. Would not be interested in him whatsoever.

    58. Lawson is also weird because if they do decide to go with D’Antoni, wouldn’t Lawson be perfect for him?

    59. Denver is kind of funny, by the way, as they seem to be deluding themselves into thinking Thibs might go there if he gets fired. I think that’s why they are dragging their feet on naming a new coach, because I don’t see anyone else left in the final four who would work as a coach for them (maybe Gentry? But if you can have D’Antoni, why take D’Antoni-lite in Gentry? Now that I say that, I guess being D’Antoni-lite is actually sort of the point, as he gives you D’Antoni’s ideas but funneled through a player’s coach). I think they want to make sure Thibs is not available before they pick their coach. If they do go with D’Antoni (and it seems like it is mostly between him and Melvin Hunt), then Hunt better be snatched up quickly by another team. That guy is one hell of an assistant coach and would likely be a good head coach elsewhere, also. He’s one of those rare breeds of assistants who is a process guy but is so cool that he has sort of become a player’s coach, as well.

    60. Lawson is also weird because if they do decide to go with D’Antoni, wouldn’t Lawson be perfect for him?

      Yes, but Lawson has had some off the court issues and has expressed a desire to leave. I think he’s clearly on the trade block.

    61. Just for the record, I am against banning anyone unless they get abusive to other posters. I have no problem skipping over the posts of anyone who is repetitive or that I always disagree with.

    62. @76 Yeah, he got popped with a DUI then possession of herb (which is ironic, living in Denver) and Woody Paige has reported that he wants out.

    63. I don’t think we should give up on Cleanthony Early. He was hurt and out of condition for much of his rookie season. I don’t think he’s going to be a “star”, but I’m still holding out hope he will become a solid rotation player.

    64. And for those of you w/o insider, Pelton’s system is way down on WCS, ranking him 18th. He’s got Myles Turner as the next best center after KAT/Okafor

    65. Good stuff on PTI, JR’s numbers were actually better with Knicks than with Cavs apparently.

      WCS is a lot older than Myles Turner. I never know what to make of age when it comes to draftees. I like Turner a lot and I love his free throw shooting….

    66. @81…Barnes didn’t use him well at Texas in a really crowded frontcourt. The kids got a solid jumper, handles to push the ball up the court, and good timing for the shot block. Plus he’s only like 19. How many PF/C compete in the 3 point shooting contest at the All America game?

    67. I’m honestly okay with rolling the dice with Porzingis. This team has so many issues that if they’re not going to get the sure fire studs like Okafor and Towns, then maybe they should just go for the high-upside/high-downside guys like Porzingis. I like Turner a lot. He really was sorely misused in college. But I dunno about at #4. The guys picking at #5-10 are going to get some damn fine prospects this year. What a draft!!! I’d gladly trade Melo for a #6 pick in this draft.

    68. Stat, he has him 10th, but he wrote an article a while back saying he thinks his system underrates Winslow

    69. @ 85 – do you think trading Melo would get that return? Honestly, I have no idea what Melo is worth in a trade. To me, the Knicks would have to give up assets to trade him and his contract but I know that is not the common held belief. I just think a 30 yr old coming off knee surgery with 4 years remaining on his contract would be radioactive no matter how great he once was. However, you saying that you could get the 6th pick for Melo is crazy to me but maybe Melo is not as bad an asset as I think. I dont know.

    70. Oh, I don’t think they’d get it, just saying that I’d do it.

      Melo likely doesn’t get you a top five pick now, but that’s more because the teams picking at the top of the draft typically are the ones who don’t need someone like Melo.

      Plus, of course, Melo wouldn’t approve a trade to another shitty team.

    71. Turner runs funny, but he’s 19, huge, can shoot, rebound and block shots. Needs to get stronger, but he’s got time. He’s very intriguing because his numbers might have been suppressed by playing for a goddamn moron

    72. That’s quite a piece on Turner. With all this discussion of gait you’d think he was a racehorse.

      I get the emphasis on screening for congenital issues and examining existing structural injuries but it sort of amazes me how much time people spend thinking about this other stuff. Or at least that people put so much emphasis on these kinds of measurables and then often completely ignore a player’s shooting record and rebound rate in college.

      But that’s why we pay the front office guys the big bucks I guess….

    73. And regarding Melo, I would be fascinated to know what his trade market looks like. Honestly, I really have no idea. In my view, it would be as idiotic to take him on as it was for us to sign him. Even more so. But there probably are a few GM’s who would fight for the chance….

    74. Yeah, good teams like the Rockets and Bulls could really use Melo (therefore, it is unsurprising that they both tried to get him last year). Just not shitty teams. His market is good teams who could just use one more star scorer. Imagine if Portland lost Aldridge. Would they trade a couple of first rounders for Melo? He wouldn’t go there, but would they do it?

    75. porzingis is a eurotrap…. same with hezonja… those stories are just not going to end well…

    76. Imagine if Portland lost Aldridge. Would they trade a couple of first rounders for Melo? He wouldn’t go there, but would they do it?

      But does Melo know Cock Jowles has moved to Portland?

    77. It’s certainly a possibility (I think Hezonja is less likely to be a bust, but also less likely to be a stud), but when the team is so screwed, roster-wise, the odds of them becoming good is already so low, might as well shoot for the moon.

    78. I’ve seen a few analysts I like drop the B-word when it comes to Porzingis comps that I wouldn’t draft him with the 34th pick, but it’s hard to get a sense of his talent.

    79. Young Bargs shot better, rebounded better, and had slightly better defensive stats in Europe than the Zinger. Of course, it could be Bargs was a good young player who didn’t develop, but just the risk of Bargs is enough for me to take him off my personal draft board completely.

    80. There is no trading Melo. In spite of the mistake of signing him, the knicks will be fine if Phil makes the right decision. The question is what will Phil do. It’s triangle or championship.

    81. there are so few projects that end up panning out.. and they usually fit the profile of having played the game late like in hs or something…. it’s usually high risk/low-reward with these guys…

      porzingis’s problem is that he’s going to have to make it as a sf… he doesn’t rebound enough to be a 4… and if you look at him in that light.. he’s not all that impressive… he’s not quick or have the handles to be drawing kirilenko comps…

    82. Well if that’s true that Porzingis Porzingis had worse stats than young Bargs then I may not be interested in drafting him.

      Another thing to note is that I bet the Knicks are going to sign Bargs to the vet min and so aren’t gonna be as interested in Porzingis.

    83. I’m not sure what positions young Bargs played, and like I said, I don’t know enough about Euros to know how the league strength has changed and to know what other big kids had similar stat lines to Bargs. So take that with a big pile of salt. Maybe Farfa could add some insight.

    84. This A to defensive strategy is awesome, let’s cover LeBron with smaller players and let him work in the post. Yeah I know he is struggling outside but I think Carroll is going to defend him even though he was getting roasted before he got hurt.

      Let Millsap and Scott guard LeBron and Carroll and Bazmore defend jr

    85. Imagine being DeMarre Carroll tonight? You’re a non-fucked up knee away from getting the big payday you’ve labored for years to get, but you’re also in the eastern conference finals, and your teammates are relying on you to come through. He’s made 5 million over his career, so I can’t shed tears for the man, but that is a tough choice. If he tears an ACL he’s losing, what, 30 million?

    86. It’s really impressive what Jimmy Butler did and does against Lebron. He is not as big or nowhere near as long as Kawhi but he defends LeBron as well. They both have excellent help d that supports them though

    87. Porzingis definitely has some similarities to Bargnani, but A. He is more athletic now than Bargs was then and B. Bargs was talented enough when he was young to be drafted number one overall, ya know? Bargs just developed terribly. Could the same thing happen here? Of course. Would I take him over Towns, Okafor or Russell? No way. Heck, maybe not even over Mudiay, but he’s interesting at #4.

    88. So, the “We’d patiently sit through a five year rebuild” crowd has given up on Early already? That makes sense since we gave up on Hardaway at age 22. By December, we will have concluded that Thanasis is a stiff too. Maybe now is a good time to point out that Everybody Loves Draymond was a tweener who did nothing as a 23 year old rookie and DeMarre Carroll took five years to become productive. But let’s give up on all of our young players.

      To me the real divide among fans (at least NYK fans since there the only ones I engage with) is between…

      A) The “I want to feel hopeful so I’m going to believe in the best case scenario that aligns with what seems to be management’s current approach” people, and…

      B) the “I think this is how you give yourself a chance to win a title, and here’s how the knicks are or are not following it” people. This group for the Knicks usually wants a longer rebuild.

      Put those two together, rooting for a bad team like the Knicks, and you get group A doing its best to rationalize how players like Iman Shumpert and Hardaway are really promising and constitute enough young talent to alter the course of the franchise.

      Group B responds by saying, “that’s not true. They’re nobodies, more or less.

      As a member of group B, I can say that the underlying motivation is to convince group A’ers to switch sides and push alongside me for the team to stop cutting corners and commit to a real long term plan.

    89. I did this as an Untold Knick History story a few years ago, but I realized it also works well as a Basketball Legend, especially since it is so timely, so in case you missed it the first time, here is the unlucky (that’s all the Knicks have, right?) story of how the Knicks missed out on Bob Cousy in a special lottery where they had a 1/3 chance at getting him and a 1/3 chance of getting another Hall of Famer. They, of course, got that last 1/3. ;)

    90. Their last top five pick was Kenny “Sky” Walker, so yes, they are definitely due.

    91. Kenny was no slouch. He wasn’t particularly good, but if Mudiay’s floor is the Skywalker maybe he’s worth a shot.

    92. Unless ok4 or Russell fall I still think Jordan and Phil will pull of a trade. the 9th pick and Vonleh would be nice. Heck, Stanley, Turner, or Kristaps could still be available at that pick.

    93. “I love ball, but my real goal is to find the ark of the covenant before the Nazis get it”

    94. Checking on y’all from XFactor Italy casting admissions.

      Porzingis-Bargs: as a young player, Bargs was quite dominant in Europe. He was always a bad rebounder, but the lack of lateral speed here doesn’t get particularly exposed, so he could be employed as a full time SF-PF while being 4 inches taller than his opponent. Believe it or not, he understood the game before going across the pond. I think Sam Mitchell did a very poor job in developing him, and Jay Triano is just a bad NBA coach. It’s terribly hard to convert a Euro stud into viable NBA talent (that’s why having another coach in Chicago needs to happen to salvage Mirotic’s star potential), but when talking about Bargs he completely came undone in Toronto. So I’d be on board with Porzingis too (he is way quicker than Bargs and could be a real surprise) but I fear too much the potential inability to develop players of Fish, and let’s be serious, Phil’s track record on development is pretty weak (Toni Kukoc and stealmaster Shannon Brown come to mind, and that’s it).

    95. I guess here’s my #1 problem with the Zinger, and it reminds me of Mudiay, as in both cases, they are things that can be fixed, but if they are not fixed, then they are not a good pick for #4.

      In Mudiay’s case, it is his shooting. However, even if he doesn’t learn to shoot, he’ll still be a decent NBA player. Zinger’s thing is that he needs to gain size. If he doesn’t, he’ll be a bust. No doubt about it. He will not be able to survive in the NBA if he does not get bigger. So my biggest worry by far (by FAR) is the fact that he didn’t declare for last year’s NBA Draft. And why didn’t he? Because he wasn’t big enough. So a year later, he still isn’t big enough? Isn’t that a huge red flag? He’s still only 19, so he obviously has time to gain mass, but what if he doesn’t? If he doesn’t, he’s a bust. What if he can’t gain mass? Total bust.

      If he can, he’ll be a great player. I dunno if you can bet your team on something like that, though.

    96. “Don’t know what numbers they were using, but probably not the case. Dude’s shooting went way up on the Knicks. 50% more steals per minute, too”

      Holy crap, what the hell were they talking about? His numbers are way higher on the Cavs.

    97. Brian, you aren’t really using a useful definition of bust here, or you are overconfident in your ability to forecast Mudiay. Sure, it’s possible to be a much worse bust than Telfair or Dion Waiters or Ray Felton and maybe that is the likely floor for a guy like Mudiay, but for the purposes of the 4th overall pick at age 19, there is zero difference. A player who can ultimately play 15,000 NBA minutes at below average levels is just about completely worthless to a team that has his rights for a few years starting at age 19, paying $3-$4 million a year and rising. Those early years will usually be quite bad for those kinds of players. It really doesn’t matter if Mudiay is Dion Waiters or Ray Felton instead of Dennis Hopson, all would be worthless to the Knicks. The word bust is irrelevant.

      I think the focus Mudiay’s shooting improving from bad to meh is too narrow. He has a very good combination of size, handle and athleticism — it is rare. But the athleticism comparisons to the truly all time guys like Wall, Rose, Westbrook do not match what master scout youtube.com tells me. And the handle and vision, while excellent relative to his size and athleticism, are also nowhere near truly elite, not even in the Rondo ballpark. Sure he can perhaps improve his shooting at least to mediocre but it is not clear that’s enough to be really valuable, and the chances of him become a good shooter are very low.

      I get that he has upside. He has a lot of Baron Davis in him. Baron never became a good shooter, but was still a pretty good player for a lot of his career, and you have to wonder how much two inches would have helped him. Still, I think it takes a massive amount of explosiveness and handle to make up for being a weak shooting guard, and I can’t tell whether it’s there. Winslow, please.

    98. “Kenny was no slouch. He wasn’t particularly good, but if Mudiay’s floor is the Skywalker maybe he’s worth a shot.”

      I beg to differ here. Kenny Walker was an enormous slouch. He was an undersized C in college, and never had the skill to become a SF or the size/strength to be a PF in the pros. Great guy, terrible player. I remember that draft well, Knicks fans were devastated that Chuck Person got picked just before our spot. Person turned out to be better than Walker, but not the stud Knicks fans dreaded he would become. As it turned out, we passed over a bunch of great players: Mark Price, Dennis Rodman, Buck Williams, John Salley to name a few.

    99. I remember that draft well, Knicks fans were devastated that Chuck Person got picked just before our spot.

      And it turns out the big tragedy was when we picked too-skinny guard Michael Jackson from Georgetown with the last pick of the second round, exactly one pick after too-skinny guard Jeff Hornacek went to Phoenix.

      As it turned out, we passed over a bunch of great players: Mark Price, Dennis Rodman, Buck Williams, John Salley to name a few.

      I mean, it’s not really fair to say we “passed” on guys with the 5th pick who didn’t go until the second round. And Buck Williams was not anywhere near the 1986 draft.

    100. No, by “passed” I only meant that those guys were drafted later, not that they were considered at all as top picks.

      My bad on Buck Williams, I saw Buck Johnson and goofed. But aside from Jeff Hornacek, Drazen Petrovic was also there. So was Dell Curry, who was one of the original 3-pt specialists.

      I think that this draft will be similar in that several very good to great players will emerge from well down the draft.

    101. Well I think calling someone stupid every post, or, even worse, retarded(which is both offensive and exclusionary)–both of which Cap’t Luke has done, qualifies as being “abusive to other posters”. Couple that with his obvious misogyny and his general lack of anything approaching basketball knowledge and I find it obvious that this gibbering troglodyte deserves a ban.

      For the record I’m totally fine with being abusive to abusive, know-nothing “posters” like Captain Luke–and I think everyone should be; we’ve been far too charitable and have only encouraged him.

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