Knicks Morning News (2015.02.11)

  • [New York Times] Lawson Powers Nuggets to 106-96 Win Over Lakers, Ending Skid (Wed, 11 Feb 2015 06:34:13 GMT)

    Ty Lawson had season-highs of 32 points and 16 assists, leading Denver to a 106-96 victory over the Los Angeles Lakers on Tuesday night that snapped the Nuggets’ six-game skid.

  • [New York Times] Snell Scores Career-High 24 as Bulls Rout Kings, 104-86 (Wed, 11 Feb 2015 05:10:43 GMT)

    A lack of consistent playing time can send a young player into a funk, but Tony Snell claims not to care how much he’s on the floor.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Grizzlies Roll, Sending Nets to Seventh Loss in 10 Games (Wed, 11 Feb 2015 05:01:33 GMT)

    Zach Randolph had 19 points, and Marc Gasol added 14 points and 11 rebounds as Memphis won its 14th game in its last 16.

  • [New York Times] Harden Has 20 Points in 4th Quarter, Rockets Beat Suns (Wed, 11 Feb 2015 04:28:27 GMT)

    James Harden scored 20 of his 40 points in the fourth quarter and the Houston Rockets pulled away to beat the Phoenix Suns 127-118 on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Randolph, Marc Gasol Lead Grizzlies Past Nets 95-86 (Wed, 11 Feb 2015 03:43:41 GMT)

    Zach Randolph had 19 points, Marc Gasol added 14 and 11 rebounds and the Memphis Grizzlies ruined the return of former coach Lionel Hollins with a 95-86 victory over the Brooklyn Nets on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Monroe Scores 23, Leads Pistons to 106-78 Win Over Hornets (Wed, 11 Feb 2015 03:31:33 GMT)

    The Detroit Pistons may be 11 games under .500, but they’re starting to think about the postseason — something that is a very real possibility when playing in the Eastern Conference.

  • [New York Times] Wolves Acquire Adreian Payne From Hawks for 1st-Round Pick (Wed, 11 Feb 2015 00:08:27 GMT)

    Adreian Payne came to Minnesota on Monday as a seldom-used member of the powerful Atlanta Hawks, languishing on the bench for one of the league’s best teams.

  • [New York Daily News] Lupica: Adam Silver defending Dolan inexcusable (Wed, 11 Feb 2015 05:03:40 GMT)

    NBA commissioner Adam Silver shouldn’t have dismissed one of his owners talking to a paying customer this way.

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks Amar’e Stoudemire still considering buyout (Wed, 11 Feb 2015 04:33:34 GMT)

    If Wednesday’s game against Orlando ends up being Amar’e Stoudemire’s final one in a Knicks uniform, he will leave with no regrets.

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    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    38 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2015.02.11)”

    1. I mean we can argue ad infinitum about the value of a metric like WS/48, and that discussion is valid, and I’m seeing a lot of the internet discussion of Chuck’s comments devolving into that kind of thing (e.g. Chuck is right b/c PER says Player X is better than Player Y, when Player Y is clearly better than Player X). But it shouldn’t get lost that the metric Chuck got called out over was basically just points allowed per 100 possessions. I mean that’s not really even “analytics”, it’s just a slightly different way of counting. If you can’t understand that then you’re either very stupid or willfully ignorant, and to be honest, I think Chuck might be both.

      The real value of the analytics movement as I see it isn’t in any specific number, whether that’s PER or WS/48 or shooting percentage with a defender within 4 feet. The real value is in the constant search for more information and understanding about the game of basketball. And Chuck has made it clear that he has no interest in that. He knows what he knows and there’s nothing you could say that could convince him otherwise. There’s not much use in arguing with someone with that attitude.

    2. Last night in Kentucky’s win, Towns had a monster game. A post move baby hook to put Kentucky up two late and several offensive rebounds to seal the win. Defensively, he moves so fluid and is able to jump out on the ball handler on P&Rs. He is hands down my top pick and I believe he will overtake Okafor before the draft. I love this kid.

    3. It’s been interesting to read the Dean Smith coverage the past few days. Coach Smith was gathering his own efficiency data himself 40 years ago. He didn’t care about points per game, only points per possession. (And it led to the unfortunate installation of the tedious, fan-unfriendly “Four Corners”, which literally put the radio commentators to sleep, but it sure was effective!)

    4. “Basketball guys who participated in the game through years of rigorous training and practice, decades of observation work through film and field participation work feel under-utilized and under-appreciated and are quite insulted because their PhDs in basketball have been downgraded,” the former executive, who chose to remain anonymous, told ESPN NBA Insider Chris Broussard.

      This thing still gets me shaking my head vehemently. And I still laugh my ass off at the thought of a “PhD” in basketball obtained just by playing. It’s like those PhD basketball guys are saying, you know, that your average bricklayer knows how to put together the Guggenheim just because he spent the last 30 years working for your run-of-the-mill construction company (with all due respect to bricklayers everywhere).

    5. And I still laugh my ass off at the thought of a “PhD” in basketball obtained just by playing.

      Wait, you mean Dr. J isn’t a real doctor?

    6. The other funny thing about Barkley is that he’s probably held in higher regard as a player by stats nerds than general basketball fans.

    7. The other funny thing about Barkley is that he’s probably held in higher regard as a player by stats nerds than general basketball fans.

      Yup, apart from his Josh Smith-ian penchant for shooting from three with abysmal results.

    8. I think Barkley made it pretty clear that he doesn’t actually know what analytics even are, so I’m guessing it’s safe to assume he is not aware of that.

    9. I used to enjoy watching Inside the NBA but it’s really gone south. Nothing to do with this clip and everything to do with the addition of Shaq I believe. He destroyed their chemistry I think by pushing Charles out of his comfort zone.

      What’s strange to me about this is that I have felt for a while that Barkley had at least an inkling about analytics and how to use them properly. Clearly that was me listening with my own bias though.

    10. The annoying thing about Chuck is that he is supremely entertaining, funny and pretty good at dropping the truth usually. Its just his anti-analytics stance and some of his asinine convictions make him difficult to completely embrace. Also – his girth makes him difficult to completely embrace.

    11. Barkley’s retort was clearly moronic, but at the same time, Morey’s tweet was very aggressive and came out of nowhere, so that wasn’t cool, either. What do you expect someone to say when a guy goes after him like that?

    12. What do you expect someone to say when a guy goes after him like that?

      I guess Morey should have been able to guess that he’d eventually be outed for having no girlfriends in highschool. But man, it escalated quickly. Charles went straight to the nuclear-option. Jocks vs Nerds, man. Long Live The 80s!

    13. I agree but I don’t think Barkley is completely wrong about the Rockets’ defense. They can score but I do not trust them in the playoffs to get consistent stops. Howard is nowhere close to what he once was, Terrence Jones/Josh Smith will still have trouble against the longer/stronger 4s (Aldridge) and Harden though improved because he’s trying defensively is still not a good perimeter defender. However, Barkley’s reply to Morey was just………turrehbel

    14. I guess Morey should have been able to guess that he’d eventually be outed for having no girlfriends in highschool. But man, it escalated quickly. Charles went straight to the nuclear-option. Jocks vs Nerds, man. Long Live The 80s!

      I think Barkley was just responding in the Chicago Way, from the Untouchables. ;)

    15. As for Towns, I love the guy and I’d be thrilled if the Knicks got him, but I’d still take Okafor over him. Okafor is doing things that players just don’t do. Towns is a better fit with Melo in that Towns can play a more subservient role, but screw it, Okafor is so good than Melo should just learn to play the subservient role. Not to mention that Melo is really quite good when he is not the focal point of the offense (like in the Olympics) so he should welcome the opportunity. Melo getting open threes off of Okafor posting? That could be a lethal combo!

    16. “Melo getting open threes off of Okafor posting? That could be a lethal combo!”
      And you’re not at all concerned about the “Melo’s guy blasting by him at the 3 point line and waltzing down the lane while Okafor looks on in amazed confusion” lethal combo?

    17. Brian I guess that goes along with my Monroe pipe dream. Monroe is a proven post player too in the actual NBA.

    18. Towns is going to be a tremendous defender plus I think his offensive game is further along than some think. I saw a couple nice post moves last night and he knows how to get position inside. Kentucky has so many options that he is not fully utilized on that end of the floor.

      I don’t think okafor is going to be a negative on the defensive end but he will never have the impact towns will make. Finally Towns’ is going to be a rebounding machine. Fwiw I am not towns’ agent

    19. With $27 million to spend, I am not too worried about the Knicks defense, as you’d like to believe they can get at least two defenders with that money.

      Then you’d open next season with:

      Calderon (or, if they can somehow dump him, someone else)
      Defender at the 2
      Melo
      Defender at the 4
      Okafor

      or Okafor at the 4/Defender at the 5

      Don’t get me wrong, if it’s Towns in the middle, then rock on, that’s totally cool by me, as well. I think Towns is amazing. The guy would be #1 pick in a lot of drafts (interesting debate is who would go #1 between Kyrie Irving and Towns).

      Debating between Towns and Okafor is awesome to me because either way you’ve almost assuredly got a star player. These guys aren’t Hasheem Thabeet. We all thought Thabeet could play defense in the NBA but no one thought he’d be a stud offensively. And even his defense was debated at the time.

    20. Barkley’s point is that analytics are overrated. And they are.
      Of course, there’s a degree of usefulness for analytics, but it often appears from stat proponents that watching the games (the eye test) is a waste of time to evaluate players, and that all you have to do is look at their advanced metrics to figure out how valuable they really are. To that degree, Charles is right.
      Of course, the various measure of efficiency are invaluable. No one is disputing that. But nerdy guys with statistics diplomas that don’t really know the game are not going to win you rings in the NBA.

    21. Barkley’s point is that analytics are overrated.

      Nope. Barkley’s point is that nerds are virgins.

    22. it often appears from stat proponents that watching the games (the eye test) is a waste of time to evaluate players,

      Maybe one person said this somewhere on the internet, but it is not at all what is “often” said.

      It’s a stupid culture war to get into. Anybody that thinks that “analytics are crap” that are for “idiots” is ignoring a free, valuable, and readily available technology for no reason whatsoever. It’s like riding a donkey to work every morning because subways are crap and busses are for idiots.

    23. Yeah, that was a problem I had with the film Moneyball, in that it made it into a “stats make scouting pointless” argument, when that’s nothing no front office person has ever said, least alone Billy Beane. Beane has never denounced traditional scouting, as you’d have to be an absolute moron to ever do so, since it is plainly very, very valuable to scout someone in person. The point is to use scouting and analytics.

    24. 8 days to the trade deadline. Let’s enjoy our Bargs for the last 9 days of his Knicks career. I wanna see everyone Bargsing like it’s 1999!

    25. I have to ask if you actually listened to his comments hoolahoop.

      Barkley’s point is that analytics are overrated. And they are.

      Barkley: “I’ve always believed analytics was crap”. Shaq: “That’s why analytics don’t work” That’s not saying they’re overrated. That’s saying they’re useless.

      Of course, there’s a degree of usefulness for analytics, but it often appears from stat proponents that watching the games (the eye test) is a waste of time to evaluate players, and that all you have to do is look at their advanced metrics to figure out how valuable they really are. To that degree, Charles is right.

      Very, very few people think this. Certainly I have never heard anyone involved in the analytics movement in any sort of prominent position inside the game of basketball or in the media express that opinion. People are always in a huge rush to point out that it’s something used as part of a process to understand the game along with a number of other things, most prominent among those being the eye test.

      Of course, the various measure of efficiency are invaluable. No one is disputing that.

      Barkley is disputing exactly that. He said “I don’t care where a team ranks in points allowed per 100 possessions, they’re not a good defensive team because I said they’re not a good defensive team (and because they gave up 118 points in a game one time)”. He is disputing exactly that idea.

      But nerdy guys with statistics diplomas that don’t really know the game are not going to win you rings in the NBA.

      This is an absurd strawman that I’m not even sure how to respond to. Did the analytics guys on the Spurs “win you rings in the NBA” last year? They were a part of the success, just like Morey would be a part of the success if the Rockets won (as would Harden, as would their scouting department).

    26. Horrible news about Mase. He was one of the reasons I became a die-hard Knicks fan since I grew up and started really following the Knicks during the Riley years. Ewing was and will always be my favorite Knick but you gotta have alot of love for guys like Mase, Oak, Starks and Harper.

    27. I think it was last season, that someone (Cock Jowles?) was hyping Dave Berry (?) and made repeated arguments, largely supported by the knickerbocker contingent, that the eye test is misleading. Don’t trust it. Just look at the numbers.

    28. If he would have atleast given some observation to why he thinks they are a bad defensive team (their rotations, howard’s health going forward or ANYTHING) but he basically only used one “stat” to make his point which is really really stupid

    29. The point is to use scouting and analytics.

      Stats. Man I love Stats.

      I’ve been trying to find a way of evaluating drafts of the last 10 drafts and the value of draft position as it translates to success. Was being first better than being 2nd or 3rd? Was being 15th better than being 20th and by how much?

      The problem, however, is that it’s a rabbit hole. Different stats say different things. What statistic says “This is the best player?” Is WS48 saying that? No. It’s saying that the player is successful because you have to win to have a good rating. That’s why Carmelo Anthony, ranked 175, has the same WS48 as PJ Tucker and Shaun Livingston.

      I won’t go into the problems I have with each specific point, but I’ll agree with Brian Cronin’s statement but add to it. I think you need to look at the broad spectrum of stats. They each say something different. They can say thins like “this is a good rebounder” or “this is a playmaker” or “he has a good handle”.

      So, what stat says “This is the best player”? And more specifically, “This is the best draft pick?”

      …I’m also a Stat fan but that’s something else :)

      …Prayers for Anthony Mason. I so hope he pulls through. I met his one night in a gas station in Westchester. We both pulled into a gas station at the same time and met at the counter to get gum or soda or something after a game. I was excited to meet him and had not heard the game or the results and asked him how we did, excitedly. He just looked at me and I thought he was going to kill me but he answered simply, “We lost” and that was it. When I got into the car and turned on the radio I learned they lost by 30 or 40. It was a horrible loss. My impression was that this was one of the most intimidating men I ever met.

    30. Mason is one of my favorite players of all time. He was like a caricature or a daydream of a NBA player; off the scrap heap as one the more goonish looking enforcers you could imagine to suddenly realizing he was the best ball handler on the team doesn’t really happen in real life. The guy was a third round pick that looked like an old school WWF character who basically played point guard and averaged 5 assists a game at age 30 for a Charlotte team that made the playoffs. An argument can be made that as a third round pick he was the best player in the entire 1988 draft. Okay yes maybe the easier arguments go in favor of any of Mitch Richmond, Smits, Hersey Hawkins, Strickland, Majerle, and I guess maybe Manning, but I don’t think any of them had careers that are clearly better than Mason, who was an excellent defender, had the bonus fear factor thing, and was gypped out of a lot of his prime thanks to zero starts before age 27.

      Getting Starks and Mason off the scrap heap in consecutive years, two maximum grit guys who ended up the core of really good teams is probably as good as it will ever get as a Knick fan if they don’t win it all. Unless you win the championship, it’s a lot more fun to root for guys like this than the typical high lottery pick who works out as expected.

    31. that’s one of the reasons why i don’t think playing for only a championship or bust is a good strategy… we were never going to beat jordan’s bulls… although the pj brown year i thought we had a punchers chance… and we weren’t going to beat lebron’s best heat team… but just being in the thick of things matters…

      those suns, kings teams and the 90s knicks teams were flawed and not necessarily the most fitting champions… but i don’t care… they were absolutely fun to cheer on… and that’s all a fan could ever hope for…

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