Knicks Morning News (2015.02.06)

  • [New York Post] Stoudemire changes his tune, may consider buyout after break (Fri, 06 Feb 2015 06:15:50 -0500)

    Oh yeah, Amar’e Stoudemire is a conflicted man right now. One day after saying at practice he was content to ride out the season with the Knicks, he said in…

  • [New York Post] Why the Knicks-Nets rivalry will ‘be huge’ someday (Fri, 06 Feb 2015 00:17:53 -0500)

    With Brooklyn playing host to the Knicks on Friday at Barclays Center, the Nets admitted the rivalry had lost all of its juice because both teams have struggled so badly,…

  • [New York Times] Aldridge Leads Trail Blazers to 108-87 Win Over Suns (Fri, 06 Feb 2015 06:25:16 GMT)

    LaMarcus Aldridge had 19 points and 13 rebounds for his team-record 220th double-double, and the Portland Trail Blazers beat the Phoenix Suns 108-87 on Thursday night.

  • [New York Times] Ellis Scores 21 Points to Lead Mavericks Past Kings 101-78 (Fri, 06 Feb 2015 05:55:15 GMT)

    Monta Ellis had 21 points and six assists to lead the Dallas Mavericks, minus Dirk Nowitzki and Rajon Rondo, over the struggling Sacramento Kings 101-78 on Thursday night.

  • [New York Times] Make It a Dozen: Cavs Win 12th Straight, 105-94 Over Clips (Fri, 06 Feb 2015 05:13:23 GMT)

    Iman Shumpert softly played a harmonica in the locker room as his teammates dressed following a surprisingly easy victory. In one corner, LeBron James slipped on a tight black T-shirt with RWTW on the front.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: Cavaliers Win 12th in a Row (Fri, 06 Feb 2015 04:51:33 GMT)

    LeBron James scored 23 points before sitting out the fourth quarter as Cleveland beat the Clippers, who lost their composure and were given five technical fouls.

  • [New York Times] Henderson Leads Hornets Over Wizards Again, 94-87 (Fri, 06 Feb 2015 02:52:19 GMT)

    Gerald Henderson scored 27 points and the Charlotte Hornets defeated the Washington Wizards for the second time this week, 94-87 on Thursday night.

  • [New York Times] National Basketball Association Roundup (Fri, 06 Feb 2015 01:10:18 GMT)

    The Orlando Magic fired coach Jacque Vaughn on Thursday, ending a week of speculation about his job security. James Borrego was named interim coach.

  • [New York Daily News] Carmelo Anthony looking to sell All-Stars on Knicks (Fri, 06 Feb 2015 06:26:25 GMT)

    Anthony is fully embracing his role of ‘ambassador’ and says he will try to use the All-Star weekend to sell future free agents.

  • [New York Daily News] Bondy: Nets the best bet while Knicks try to hit lottery (Fri, 06 Feb 2015 04:14:23 GMT)

    There’s a basketball game Friday in Brooklyn, a real one that actually means something after all.

  • [New York Daily News] No buzz in Brooklyn over short-lived rivalry with Knicks (Fri, 06 Feb 2015 03:58:34 GMT)

    The Nets left Canada after playing the closest thing they have to a rival, returning to New York to a matchup that’s. . . . blah.

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    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    55 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2015.02.06)”

    1. Can I get a buy-out as a Knicks fan? I’m on a long term deal that I think is expiring this year

    2. I’m actually feeling like Mudiay may not be such a bad pick (disclaimer – I only know what is written about him on Draftexpress, which indicates that he likes to take the ball to the rack, is a great finisher, and great at drawing fouls). I think the Triangle needs a “power” “lead” guard in order to function properly. The Chicago teams had MJ, the Lakers had Kobe. These guys made their Triangle cuts and attacked the rim, drawing fouls in process.

      The Triangle is not a mid-range jumpshooting offense as far as I can tell. It can create shots all over the floor and jump shots are just one kind – and probably the most “conveniently” easy to take, since the defense is letting you take those anyway. We’ve already seen our 3PA increase slowly through the season to the point where we probably above average in terms of the % of our total FGA that are 3 pointers. Where we are really bad is in creating free throws and taking shots in the restricted area. Is that because of the triangle, or is it because of the 10 times/game that Calderon/Prigioni/Larkin have a run at the rim and dribble through to the other side or pass out of it to a mid-range jump shooter? I think it’s the latter. Add to that two factors — 1) you literally have to give Melo a concussion or draw serious blood in order for officials to give him a call — this is really getting ridiculous– and 2) we have really no post players at all other than Melo (who doesn’t seem to be posting up quite as much) and the always injured Amare — of course we don’t draw fouls.

      The 2010 Lakers had 3 guys who played tons of minutes that drew tons of fouls (defined arbitrarily as FT/FGA ~0.35 or more) – Bynum, Pau, and Kobe, so it’s not the Triangle that prevents us from drawing fouls – it’s the personnel. Who’s going to foul Cole Aldrich, Amundson, and Jason Smith when they post up?

      Anyway – if Okafor and Towns are off the board, I don’t think it’d be terrible if we took Mudiay.

    3. Doesn’t make sense to get someone that young and raw. If it comes to that I think they trade the pick for a post player.

    4. Doesn’t make sense to get someone that young and raw. If it comes to that I think they trade the pick for a post player.

      such as…?

      Phil is building for the long-term, or at least the medium term. You can see it in his quotes in the Araton article, talking about Melo aging well into this early-mid 30s. I’d be surprised if he traded the pick for another existing player unless it’s something like the Kevin Love deal where you’re getting superstar level guy in his mid-20s (ie. not late 20s or early 30s). I’m just not sure who that guy is.

      In terms of young and raw, it’s not like this draft pick will be expected to be a savior right away. We’ll still have the $30MM in cap room to bring in veterans who will contribute right away. This draft pick will be the best chance we have to be good on the downside of Melo’s contract and thereafter (since we don’t have a 2016 pick).

    5. meanwhile I strangely think that this thing will happen:

      http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11233567/andrew-bynum-considers-sitting-2014-15-season

      Bynum’s actual agent David Lee said this – not just some “source”:

      If Bynum successfully completes the program, he could return in 2015-16, according to Lee, who said the Knicks potentially would be interested in the 7-footer.

      “If he’s healthy, Phil [Jackson] will be interested,” Lee told the Post, referring to the Knicks team president who coached Bynum while with the Lakers. “Phil knew how to tap into Andrew. They got along famously.”

      Kinda weird that there is zero buzz at all about Bynum. You can’t even find anything on twitter about him!

    6. Regarding Mudiay, Draft Express just posted a detailed scouting report from his 10-game stint in the CBA:

      http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Emmanuel-Mudiay-6472/

      I still think Russell is a better fit and would pick him if I had the option of either… but I’d still be pretty damn psyched to get Mudiay. His jump shot needs work, but he’s got the other skills and the size to defend either guard position, meaning you could play him and Calderon together (if we can’t unload Jose) to keep a veteran/floor spacer/ball-mover on the floor with him.

      Draft-wise, I’ll be ecstatic if we land Okafor, really excited for any of Towns/Russell/Mudiay, content with Stanley Johnson and apoplectic if we fall out of the top 5.

    7. You know what is funny, a lot of people on this board were criticizing Mudiay because they thought he was a selfish ball domiant guard. Draft Express lists one of his strengths as being unselfish, why wouldn’t you want a big explosive guard who is unselfish. Watching the clips he looks like john wall 2.0, which i would be ecstatic to have on the knicks. Granted he is going against CBA competition.

    8. Thanks for the link Frank. I don’t know. Isn’t Bynum just Amare 2.0 waiting to happen assuming the “not yet approved in the US” procedure works? As far as his agent, isn’t that what he is getting paid to say? I notice nothing in the article that mentioned any history of success or failure with the procedure or what they inject or how long it lasts? Meh.

    9. You know what is funny, a lot of people on this board were criticizing Mudiay because they thought he was a selfish ball domiant guard. Draft Express lists one of his strengths as being unselfish, why wouldn’t you want a big explosive guard who is unselfish. Watching the clips he looks like john wall 2.0, which i would be ecstatic to have on the knicks. Granted he is going against CBA competition.

      I surely wouldn’t call him selfish, but he’s clearly a ball dominant guard. His usage over there was through the roof.

      As for Wall 2.0, he’s not nearly as fast as Wall is now, let alone how fast Wall was at the same age (and Wall’s speed was the thing that made him stand out – his speed was and really still is legendary) and Wall 1.0 wasn’t a particularly great NBA player until he suddenly found a jumper in his third season. Will Mudiay find a jumper? Hopefully, but when you’re betting on something like “finding a jumper,” then that’s a big bet to be making on such a high pick.

    10. Will Mudiay find a jumper? Hopefully, but when you’re betting on something like “finding a jumper,” then that’s a big bet to be making on such a high pick.

      Exactly. Here’s my thing about Mudiay, if you want to take him, why wouldn’t you just Russell instead? They’re the same size, same age, and same position. Russell just so happens to already do all of the things people hope Mudiay will do one day (i.e. shoots 45% from 3 as opposed to Mudiay’s 30%).

    11. As for Wall 2.0, he’s not nearly as fast as Wall is now, let alone how fast Wall was at the same age (and Wall’s speed was the thing that made him stand out – his speed was and really still is legendary) and Wall 1.0 wasn’t a particularly great NBA player until he suddenly found a jumper in his third season.

      Do we know how fast Mudiay is? For all we know he’s just as fast.
      He does look physically bigger than Wall did as a rookie – he’s already taller and his frame just looks wider and able to carry a bit more weight.

      And as far as weaknesses to have, I’d rather have “needs to work on his jumper but he has pretty good form” than “has no court vision” or “has marginal athleticism” or “completely selfish me-first player”.

      I literally don’t know anything about the guy other than what is written on DX, but I think Knicks fans (and this board) hear “ball-dominant guard” and think JR, Marbury, etc. when CP3, Tony Parker, Wall, etc. are all ball-dominant guards. It’ll be up to Phil and co. to decide whether Mudiay is the former or the latter (assuming he’s still on the board when we pick).

    12. Exactly. Here’s my thing about Mudiay, if you want to take him, why wouldn’t you just Russell instead? They’re the same size, same age, and same position. Russell just so happens to already do all of the things people hope Mudiay will do one day (i.e. shoots 45% from 3 as opposed to Mudiay’s 30%).

      I don’t think anyone’s saying that Russell wouldn’t be a good pick. I’d be amazingly psyched if we ended up with Russell (assuming Okafor is off the board). The reason I was talking about Mudiay is that our main defect in terms of the “modern” NBA offense is that we don’t score at the rim much and we don’t draw fouls, and Mudiay’s rep is as a guy who attacks the rim and draws fouls in bunches.

    13. It takes a lot of balls to give opinions about a guy you’ve never seen play.

      you and i must have different ideas about what it takes “a lot of balls” to do in this world.

    14. Brian I don’t know if he has John Wall speed but he looked pretty fast and athletic going coast to coast in the DraftExpress clips and a lot of scouts are saying he is fast and athletic, again i know it was against CBA competition. I would disagree with you on what makes john wall good is his improved shooting, he’s only about 31% from three. Imo what makes john wall good is his speed, vision/passing, ability to get to the rim and as frank mentioned ability to draw fouls. Even if Mudiay isnt as fast as wall, i think he is at least as fast and athletic as a young Rajon Rondo who i also think is a good comp. Again i completely agree with you that Russel would be just as good a pick but i feel like people are really down on Mudiay and i dont know why.

    15. One thing that i like about Rondo, Wall and Dragic is that they can get a defensive rebound with their size, push the ball down the court and either find guys or finish at the rim(not so much Rondo anymore). I saw people earlier comparing Mudiay to a Jrue Holiday which i don’t think is a good comp at all. Jrue played a lot off the ball at UCLA because they also had Darren Collison and was asked to be more of an off ball threat then Mudiay. He was the defintion of a combo guard but people liked his size and athleticism coming out of school. If Mudiay is as good a passer and has the athleticism that scouts say he has, I would have no problem picking him.

    16. “Wall 1.0 wasn’t a particularly great NBA player until he suddenly found a jumper in his third season”
      I think that everyone would agree that Wall was really good last year and, for the year, he shot about 35% on all shots that were more than 3 feet from the rim. In other words, even without a decent jumper, Wall was pretty effective last year.

    17. in mudiay’s defense… shooting and shot selection is one thing that can be learned over time… there are lots of examples of players at all positions becoming very good shooters… in fact most of the great players in recent memory had suspect jump shots coming out college(jordan, webber, gary payton, kidd, ewing, shaq.. oh wait)…. hell i remember michael redd retooling his entire jumpshot and turning into a heckuva player…

      of course it is up to the player to actually work on it but if their ft% is ok then there’s always hope… that’s why i never put much weight into whether the guy can shoot or not… the other skills are much harder to develop…

    18. i feel like people are really down on Mudiay and i dont know why.

      Because we’ve seen the high usage/low efficiency play before. It’s not a good one. I’m by no means saying Mudiay is doomed to become another one of those kinds of players, but with a top-3 pick I think you want someone who has no chance (or at least as little as possible) of becoming, well, Stephon Marbury.

    19. Mudiay looks more like Tyreke Evans than John Wall to me. Bigger, slower… Wall’s otherworldly speed allowed him to get away with the poor shooting. Wall is the exception that proves the rule. If you have to be as fast as Wall (or as strong and athletic as Lebron or Wade) to be a star guard without a jumper, then you probably should be pretty careful about drafting guards who can’t shoot.

    20. Max i think the scouts disagree with you about Mudiay on his speed and athleticism. Also another thing that made lebron, wall and wade so great is their passing. Which is the number one thing I don’t get about the knocks on Mudiay on this site. People are comparing him to guys like tyreke evans and jrue holiday, those guys were not considered great passers and unselfish coming out of school. Im not saying Mudiay is going to be a superstar but i wouldnt mind drafting a big, fast, athletic and unselfish point guard even if he can’t shoot yet.

    21. Im not saying Mudiay is going to be a superstar but i wouldnt mind drafting a big, fast, athletic and unselfish point guard even if he can’t shoot yet.

      Would you prefer to draft a big, fast, athletic, and unselfish point guard who can shoot, and extremely well at that?

    22. I said earlier I had no problem taking Russel, i was just pointing out Mudiay wouldn’t be the disaster some people were trying to making him out to be.

    23. “Would you prefer to draft a big, fast, athletic, and unselfish point guard who can shoot, and extremely well at that?”
      Yes. I would also like to draft a 7′ center who can run, jump, play with his back to the basket, shoot from midrange and the outside, rebound, set great picks, pass and play DPOY level defense. While we’re at it, I would also like a bruising power forward who can score efficiently, pass, play great defense and rebound. The problem is that there aren’t a whole lot of 19 year olds in the world who fit any of these descriptions, and I’m pretty sure that none of them are in this draft.

    24. Yes. I would also like to draft a 7? center who can run, jump, play with his back to the basket, shoot from midrange and the outside, rebound, set great picks, pass and play DPOY level defense. While we’re at it, I would also like a bruising power forward who can score efficiently, pass, play great defense and rebound. The problem is that there aren’t a whole lot of 19 year olds in the world who fit any of these descriptions, and I’m pretty sure that none of them are in this draft.

      I was referring specifically to Russell. I suppose that wasn’t as obvious as I hoped.

    25. I think that everyone would agree that Wall was really good last year and, for the year, he shot about 35% on all shots that were more than 3 feet from the rim. In other words, even without a decent jumper, Wall was pretty effective last year.

      Before his third season, he wasn’t even getting close to 35%. His game changed in year three when he finally added the outside shot to his repertoire. Before then, you could play off of Wall and just guard against the drive. He went from shooting .07% from three (yes, 07%!!!) to .27% to 35% in years 2-4. Even his current 31% is enough to make teams respect his shooting enough not to sag off of the guy.

      I would disagree with you on what makes john wall good is his improved shooting, he’s only about 31% from three. Imo what makes john wall good is his speed, vision/passing, ability to get to the rim and as frank mentioned ability to draw fouls.

      Yes, that’s the base of Wall’s skills, but when he had just that he was not a good player. Certainly not worthy of the top pick. Then he improved his shooting and he became a very good player.

    26. I would be beyond disappointed if we traded our only top-5 pick in forever in a deep draft for Favors.

      It is exciting to put all of one’s hope into the unknown, especially when there is so little hope anywhere else for the Knicks. But Derrick Favors was the #3 pick in a draft that was considered deep at the time:

      http://nbadraftroom.blogspot.com/2010/05/2010-nba-draft-deep-and-talented.html?m=1

      With the #3 pick in this year’s draft I would expect a player of about Flavor’s caliber 4 years from now, and be pleasantly surprised if he turns out to be a lot better.

    27. “I was referring specifically to Russell. I suppose that wasn’t as obvious as I hoped.”
      In that case, I agree with you — if Russell is as big, strong and fast as Mudiay, and as good and as willing a passer and defender, but is a better shooter, I’d take Russell. But the answer isn’t as easy if Mudiay is even slightly bigger, stronger or faster and maybe a slightly better defender or passer, but a worse shooter than Russell. Maybe his advantages in one or more of the other categories offset the Russell shooting advantage or maybe not. Tough choice.

    28. Yeah I think its funny/strange that so many people assume Phil will have to trade the top pick for a “win now” player because Melo is 30 and therefore Phil screwed himself and has to build for Melo instead of for the long term. I believe its quite possible to do both. If its a possible future franchise player like Okafor or Towns or whoever in the top 5, that rookie can still be productive and contribute to a winning/championship team. In fact, this is completely eye ball/feelings based but over all the years I’ve watched NBA basketball, going back to the mid 80s, a lot of championship teams have that rookie/second year player who is improving with each game and brings that energy and passion that helps the established players/vets on the team. Rondo was a second year player when he started for the 2008 Celtics. Tayshaun Prince I believe was a rookie or second year player for the Pistons. Heck, Shump was probably the best player in the Pacers series for us and he was a second year player coming off a knee injury.

      Not every player on a championship team has to be a peak in their prime player. Melo plus a top 3 pick plus 30 million in cap space plus a mid level, mini mid level and vet minimums is more than enough to build a championship. Of course, I don’t hate Melo so I must be stupid.

    29. you and i must have different ideas about what it takes “a lot of balls” to do in this world.

      So, it’s okay to to intelligently discuss a players value relative to specific other players . . . though you’ve never seen them play?

    30. Comparing Mudiay to John Wall makes no sense. John Wall is playing MVP calibre ball this season.

    31. Wall is the fastest PG in the league . . . and no one is in second or third place. Worked hard in the off season and developed a real jump shot. But, most importantly, his mental adjustment is what sets him apart now. He’s always looking for the open man. He breaks down defenses and finds the guy with the easiest shot.

      If Melo made the same mental adjustment, he’d be MVP calibre, too.

    32. Not every player on a championship team has to be a peak in their prime player. Melo plus a top 3 pick plus 30 million in cap space plus a mid level, mini mid level and vet minimums is more than enough to build a championship.

      There’s definitely an opportunity developing. It’s in Phil’s hands.

    33. I would be beyond disappointed if we traded our only top-5 pick in forever in a deep draft for Favors.

      Exactly.
      When I’m thinking about a shot at a #1, I’m not thinking Derrick Favors.

    34. Speed isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. Shane Larkin was the fastest in NBA combine history or something crazy like that…
      Mudiay shot 58% from the free throw line and 30% from 3 in his short stint in China. I want no part of him (with a top 5 pick).

    35. I think Mudiay will be a fine NBA player. I just don’t think he’s a top five pick (I’d pick Russell and four big men ahead of him, plus Johnson). He’s clearly a top seven pick, though. If that’s “being really down on him,” then, well, I guess I am really down on him. ;) I don’t think saying a guy is a top seven pick is much of a shot at him, though.

    36. Long time reader here but never posted before. I love this place for keeping all things knicks interesting when there is hardly anything to be proud of on the court.

      I just wanted to weigh in re: Russell’s vs Mudiay’s shooting –
      I dont think it’s been addressed yet (maybe it’s just extremely difficult to do so), but when comparing their 3pt%, shouldn’t we be taking into account the difference in 3pt line distances between the ncaa and cba?
      i.e.: the ncaa 3 point line is 20.75ft,
      the fiba 3 pt line is 21.65 ft to 22.15 ft, and
      the nba 3pt line is 22ft to 23.75 ft

      because of these differences, couldn’t you theoretically be a “better” shooter, but play in the cba and therefore have a lower 3pt %?
      I’m not really sure how the stats translate from cba to nba or ncaa to nba, or if there’s even enough data to compare, but am curious to hear people’s thoughts on this.

    37. just to add to the winning now with draft picks… most good-great players start out peforming at a high level… the hope is that if we draft the right guy he would be contributing to our wins in a meaningful way…

    38. When I’m thinking about a shot at a #1, I’m not thinking Derrick Favors.

      Nobody said #1 (although there are a bunch of #1 picks that turned out worse than Favors will). Besides, thanks to Ted Step, the Knicks can’t trade the pick for Favors until after the draft, so the fear of losing a pick that becomes the top pick is moot.

      The point is, if you’re expecting your pick to be a franchise player just because this is a “deep” draft, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment.

      I don’t think Phil Jackson should trade his pick this year for Derrick Favors. But at the same time, I wouldn’t expect the player chosen to turn out much better.

    39. swiftandabundant
      February 6, 2015 at 2:37 pm
      Not every player on a championship team has to be a peak in their prime player. Melo plus a top 3 pick plus 30 million in cap space plus a mid level, mini mid level and vet minimums is more than enough to build a championship. Of course, I don’t hate Melo so I must be stupid.

      Except we don’t have all that:

      We’re not guaranteed a top 3 pick and, just like all picks, there’s significant risk in whoever we draft.

      $30M isn’t as much as you’d think when you’re as devoid of talent as we are. Every single player on this roster can be replaced except Melo and $30M isn’t enough to replace all of them. Even if we split that money into three players who are we talking about? Guys like Gerald Green?

      No team has both the MLE and mini-MLE, you either have one of the other based on your cap number. We won’t have either because we’ll be under the cap. So we’ll only have the $30M and vet minimums to round out the roster.

    40. a lot of championship teams have that rookie/second year player who is improving with each game and brings that energy and passion that helps the established players/vets on the team…Not every player on a championship team has to be a peak in their prime player. Melo plus a top 3 pick plus 30 million in cap space plus a mid level, mini mid level and vet minimums is more than enough to build a championship.

      Rookies can contribute to championship teams, but the core has to be in place. Melo + a 2nd star via free agency + a 19 year old center could be a solid team. But a) a 2nd star has to be available and willing to take NY’s money, and b) the other roster spots need to be filled out with cheap and versatile talent. This is where the young players tend to come in and play important roles, but outside of what NY has on its current roster, I’m not sure where these pieces would come from.

      In the most likely of realities the 19 year-old will improve as Anthony declines, and their peaks will not meet. I think that the two best players on a team do need to be in their primes in order to compete.

      most good-great players start out peforming at a high level… the hope is that if we draft the right guy he would be contributing to our wins in a meaningful way…

      I don’t think this is necessarily true. Like the aforementioned John Wall, a lot of the can’t-miss prospects struggle early on. Derrick Rose was rather pedestrian his first two years. And the players that played well in the NBA right away all struggled with injuries limiting their impact (Griffin, Irving, and Davis).

      The 2009 draft, which really was a deep draft (6 all-stars, 3 all-NBA players thus far), had Tyreke Evans as the rookie of the year. Point is, teams need to be patient with developing their picks, especially with these 19 year olds, as they battle injury, conditioning, and fill weaknesses in their respective games.

    41. No team has both the MLE and mini-MLE, you either have one of the other based on your cap number. We won’t have either because we’ll be under the cap. So we’ll only have the $30M and vet minimums to round out the roster.

      And it’s not even $30 million. Once their draft pick is taken care of, it’ll be roughly 527 (a little bit less if they have the #1 pick and a little bit more if they have the #4 pick or below).

    42. Brian Cronin
      February 6, 2015 at 4:54 pm
      And it’s not even $30 million. Once their draft pick is taken care of, it’ll be roughly 527 (a little bit less if they have the #1 pick and a little bit more if they have the #4 pick or below).

      Or the capholds for the open roster spots which are a little over $500k each.

    43. The idea that every single player on this team needs to be replaced is laughable. We don’t need to get 8 players in free agency. Most nights you go 8 deep. Melo, Calderon are starters. The top 3 pick would be the other starter. That leaves the cap space for our other two players (split evenly at say 14 million each). Then all of the guys we have now on the team (Cole, Admuson, Galloway, Pablo, Hardaway) can be the second unit. These guys are all getting major minutes against starters and are gonna be available for pretty cheap. Some of them we all ready have under contract. Yes, our team is bad but with the recent good play from these cheap players why is it hard to believe they would be our second unit? Add two very good FAs to Melo and the young guys plus a top 3 pick….that can be a very good team.

      Look, I get it. We suck and we have been poorly managed for a long time. People don’t want to believe. But if you look at it, take a step back, Phil does have a lot to work with this summer. We don’t need to get 8 new players. We need to get like 3 or 4 new players and we can definitely get 3 good players right now as is with our cap space and draft pick.

    44. I don’t think this is necessarily true. Like the aforementioned John Wall, a lot of the can’t-miss prospects struggle early on. Derrick Rose was rather pedestrian his first two years. And the players that played well in the NBA right away all struggled with injuries limiting their impact (Griffin, Irving, and Davis).

      when i say high level.. i mean contributing at in a meaningful way… not all players progress the same… but nobody turns from a retread into a nba all star unless your name is bill russell.. i mean hassan whiteside…

      there is a long list of rookies who were pretty fantastic right away and you can include rose into that category as well… he might not have been mvp caliber yet but being an average player as a rookie is pretty meaningful…

      if we get the right players… there’s no reason why we can’t build for the long term and be fairly competitive right away… it’s going to take some luck of course but there’s a not-so-crazy path to competitiveness that is there…

    45. Most nights you go 8 deep. Melo, Calderon are starters. The top 3 pick would be the other starter. That leaves the cap space for our other two players (split evenly at say 14 million each). Then all of the guys we have now on the team (Cole, Admuson, Galloway, Pablo, Hardaway) can be the second unit.

      with the exception of galloway and maybe, maybe aldrich… everyone else should not be playing any meaningful minutes on a competitive team… their skills are just too narrow or in the case of hardaway they don’t belong in the nba…

    46. in the case of hardaway they don’t belong in the nba…

      I understand Knickblogger hates TH2 (I don’t but most of you do), but this is taking it a bit too far.

    47. Most nights you go 8 deep. Melo, Calderon are starters. The top 3 pick would be the other starter. That leaves the cap space for our other two players (split evenly at say 14 million each). Then all of the guys we have now on the team (Cole, Admuson, Galloway, Pablo, Hardaway) can be the second unit.

      Problem is, Calderon is not a very good starter, we’re expecting an unknown rookie, possibly a 19 year old, to be another starter and we’re hoping to find two other starters at $14M each, starters who will slot into whatever holes we have open. Right away you’re looking at an inside straight in terms of putting a really good team together. Then your bench is a collection of 12th man types to 15th man types plus whatever crap you can sign for the veteran’s minimum. There are too many holes to fill here to expect to turn this around in one year. This is one of the worst Knicks teams of all time, and that is saying a lot. I will be very surprised if this is a good team next year.

    48. Timmy’s a pretty average shooter who is atrocious at all other parts of the game save finishing on the break. You don’t get to be as bad as the Knicks are without some awful players, and he’s one of them.

    49. here is a long list of rookies who were pretty fantastic right away

      Really?

      an average player as a rookie is pretty meaningful.

      Or by “fantastic” do you mean “average”?

      Because average is good for a rookie, but it’s not going to tip the needle over the next 2 years, and then you really are in the backside of Melo’s already onerous contract.

    50. it is a bit harsh but there is nothing redeemable about what he has done or any trends that point to any of it changing… he is a superb athlete who’s made a conscious decision to model his game after jj redick when he doesn’t quite have as good a shot…

    51. i guess i should clarify… being an average player i define as a solid rotation guy.. somewhere between a starter and 8th man… it means you are firmly entrenched as a player in this league… and i define that as pretty fantastic for a rookie.. if you missed on a player there’s a high likelihood he hasn’t even broken into the rotation and that’s a bad sign unless the team held them back for specific reasons due to age mcgrady/favors/j’oneal…

      depending on who we pick.. and the top 3-5 players all profile as immediate contributors… we can reasonably expect 25-30 meaningful minutes… a couple more solid players out of galloway/FA1/FA2 and we’re probably around .500… if we get a breakout from our pick in 2017 and melo has a slow and not immediate decline all of a sudden 50 wins is within reach… that’s what our path looks like…

      trading the pick for a veteran.. even favors.. isn’t moving the needle much either…. but if we traded picks and got favors i’d be all for it but i somehow doubt that tremendous deal will fall in our laps…

    52. Because average is good for a rookie, but it’s not going to tip the needle over the next 2 years, and then you really are in the backside of Melo’s already onerous contract.

      This is exactly right, Donnie Walsh.

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