Knicks Draft 2015 Round Table: Part 7

The KnickerBlogger staff has decided to spend the 8 days prior to the draft discussing the upcoming event. Each day will feature a different question that we will attempt to answer. Feel free to join us in the comment section!

Who will the Knicks actually end up with?

Kurylo: Trey Lyles. The Knicks are the only team dumb enough to send out a pre-draft media smoke screen, and then actually go through with it. And if you think about it, the thing the Knicks need least is another tweener forward with average athleticism. So it’s a lock.

Silverman: Until we see a college-aged dude in Vegas playing with Thanasis, Cleanthony, and Gallo 2.0, I’m going to stick to my grim prediction that they’ll deal it for a vet and a pick in 2016. In all honesty, any organization so mind-numbingly repugnant as to re-hire Isiah Thomas don’t deserve nice things.

Gibberman: Ohio State’s D’Angelo Russell.

Fisher-Cohen: Agree with Brian — if the Knicks don’t trade the pick or trade down, I think it’ll be Russell as Mudiay and Porzingis will take too long to develop for Phil (and I think Philly takes Porzingis).

Topaz: Seems like the Zen Master — who went on one of his more comprehensible Twitter rants recently about the importance of penetration to NBA offenses — would be a Mudiay fan. Even though he’s a not a great fit for Phil’s beloved Triangle, he seems like the likely choice (with Russell off the board) for someone who clearly doesn’t value outside shooting as much as the rest of the league.

Cronin: I think the big three will be gone and New York will like Mudiay enough to keep him (or rather, no one else will like Mudiay enough to offer anything substantial for him). So I predict Mudiay. I hope I am wrong.

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Mike Kurylo

Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

171 thoughts to “Knicks Draft 2015 Round Table: Part 7”

  1. I’m officially going with Cauley-Stein as my “A++” pick.
    He’s longer, more athletic, and faster than all the other bigs including Towns.
    And his shot looks good! Release is slow, but he should be able to hit wide open jumpers.
    You just can’t go wrong having a guy like that on a rookie contract.

  2. I think when the dust settles the draft order will be what the first mocks had:

    1 Townes
    2 Okafor
    3 Russell
    4 Mudiay

    Whether we keep Mudiay or not I have no idea. But I think we’ll have him for at least 30 seconds.

  3. Phil was quoted as saying it looked very likely we will keep our pick. I think that’s GM speak for “no one offered a good enough deal to trade down”. But someone could up their offer at the last minute, especially if we draft someone they want. But they would have to draft someone we want too. So I don’t think any trade will happen until at least pick 7.

  4. I’m going to say the Knicks will do their absolute best to screw the pooch again (i.e. trading for a vet that won’t pan out, and reaching for a guy that doesn’t fill a need). That said, the Knicks will trade the No. 4 to Detroit for Brandon Jennings and the No. 8, which will become Kelly Oubre. Jennings will then, in turn, re-injure his achilles in training camp.

    In other news, reportedly Boston offered Philly Marcus Smart and Nos. 16 and 28 for the No. 3 . . . AND Nerlens Noel! Crazy.

    http://www.csnphilly.com/blog/700-level/report-sixers-turned-down-celtics-offer-no-3-nerlens-noel-marcus-smart?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo&ref=yfp

  5. Assuming we agree that the talent falls around the 8th or 9th pick, what would be a good enough deal to trade down from 4 to 5-8? A rotation player? A future protected #1? Get rid of Calderon?

    I still would love a deal that gets us the manimal, but I don’t see Denver doing that

  6. I think you would need to get a good player who is underpaid a lot and whose contract doesn’t immediately expire or get say two good young players plus the pick for Calderon who match his salary. Otherwise you put yourself in the position where you only have cap space for one free agent instead of two.

  7. “Yeah that Boston trade offer is borderline insulting.”
    You think that one’s bad, you should see some of the trades that the Philly beat writers are proposing. Here’s one — the Knicks trade the #4 pick to the Sixers for Henry Sims and the OKC and Heat picks that the Sixers own next year. So, the Knicks pick up Henry Sims, no draft pick this year, and two mid to late first rounders next year. And the writer said that it would be a “good trade for both teams.”

  8. We’re going to trade down to get rid of Calderon, who just one year ago was the answer at PG but is now a toxic asset that must be dumped. KNICKSY.

    Then our selection will be this generation’s answer to Chris Wilcox, otherwise known as Trey Lyles. Lyles will slot in as PF in between newly signed C Greg Monroe and SF Carmelo Anthony, creating the slowest, worst rim-protecting front line in the NBA. But they will be pretty decent at knocking down 18 foot jumpers, so we’ll win 30 games, and dammit we’re goink to win those 30 games “the right way.”

  9. The Knicks are getting one of the following players:

    D. Russell
    Mudiay
    Zinger

    less likely Winslow.

    But thats it. So all of these other theries are just nonsense

  10. It’s pretty exciting that the answer to this question right now is “I have no idea”. “Exciting” is the right word for constantly feeling like you’re about to throw up right? If I had to make a final guess I think one of Russell or Okafor will slip through the gaps and we’ll take that guy. But I could see about 100 different scenarios developing. As long as it’s not Porzingis, Kaminsky or Lyles I’m happy.

  11. I’m stinking with my guns. I think they will draft either Winslow or Cauley-Stein UNLESS they get an offer for the 4th pick that guarantees them one of those players plus another asset. Those are the only two guys that fit the profile of what Jackson keeps talking about that also have enough upside to make sense.

  12. I don’t like the idea of a big man already with a pin in his surgically repaired foot, so I am very nervous about WCS, but I don’t have strong feelings about anyone else.

  13. I agree with Strat. As much posturing as Phil has done about his triangle, and that they’re gonna draft a guard, WCS makes the most sense of all the BS spewing.

  14. Then our selection will be this generation’s answer to Chris Wilcox, otherwise known as Trey Lyles. Lyles will slot in as PF in between newly signed C Greg Monroe and SF Carmelo Anthony, creating the slowest, worst rim-protecting front line in the NBA. But they will be pretty decent at knocking down 18 foot jumpers, so we’ll win 30 games, and dammit we’re goink to win those 30 games “the right way.”

    @10 That is hilarious — the perfect encapsulation of Knicks fan pessimism in one amazing comment. Even sadder — seems entirely plausible

  15. I’m not sure what to think about Trey Lyles. I don’t want him at #4 just because of perceived value but lots of very smart people not named Phil Jackson also think he’d be a steal in 10-15 range. He played out of position as a 6’10” SF and so his numbers at KY were not what they could’ve been in another system (and he’s NOT undersized for an NBA PF — 6’10” with a 7’1-7’3″ wingspan is probably bigger than the average PF in the league now) and can do all the things that Phil wants – shoot/pass/dribble/post/defend. Hard to know if he does anything well enough to make a big difference though.

  16. we haven’t picked any surprises in a long time… that makes me believe it’s going to be mudiay given all the mocks… i hope it’s winslow…

  17. “Kurylo: Trey Lyles.” Gosh, that is fucking depressing, Mike. Do you really think that or are you being glib?

    Brian: “hope I’m wrong” on Mudiay? Is his jumper that broken? Is it you against the entire NBA scouting system on this one? Phil is just gonna look at the biggest bust and say gimme gimme?

    Silverman: “I think we trade the pick for Trey Anastasio from Phish”?

    I thought we were talking about what we think really will happen.

  18. Towns, Okafor and Russell will be off the board. That’s just the reality of the situation, and the Porzingis-to-76ers pipe dream is just that. Freakish good luck does not happen to NYK. Sucks, but that’s just how things work around here.

    The safest picks are Winslow and Cauley-Stein. Winslow has a Jimmy Butler, good two-way guard type upside and at the very least should be a solid NBA rotation player. Cauley-Stein also has good two-way upside– it’s not hard to imagine him as a high-efficiency low-usage big on the offensive end, and his defensive ability is well-chronicled. If either of those two are the pick, you have to be pleased.

    Porzingis and Mudiay are both guys with good upside but with some bust potential. Stretch fours who don’t rebound are not really my favorite type of player, and neither are ball-dominant guards who do not score efficiently, but if you squint at both of those guys you can see how they might be able to develop and become different players than the Bargs/Tyreke worst-case scenarios we fear. Generally you’d rather have players who are already good at the things you want them to be good at, rather than hoping that someday they will be good at those things, but sometimes young players do develop in significant ways.

    After that you have the “field,” which includes Lyles, Kaminsky, Hezonja, Payne, Johnson, et al. Let’s really hope we don’t end up with somebody from the “field.” I mean, I like Stanley Johnson, so I could probably talk myself into being okay with a trade down that nets SJ, but other than that I’m not too high on anybody in that next rung of players.

  19. How about a Knickerblogger meet up at the GW Bridge Thursday night after the draft so we can all jump off together?

    Take it easy guys, it’s gonna be ok, Isaiah is not calling the shots.

  20. “Yeah that Boston trade offer is borderline insulting.”
    You think that one’s bad, you should see some of the trades that the Philly beat writers are proposing. Here’s one — the Knicks trade the #4 pick to the Sixers for Henry Sims and the OKC and Heat picks that the Sixers own next year. So, the Knicks pick up Henry Sims, no draft pick this year, and two mid to late first rounders next year. And the writer said that it would be a “good trade for both teams.”

    It would be better for the Knicks given what they probably will do.

    “Kurylo: Trey Lyles.” Gosh, that is fucking depressing, Mike. Do you really think that or are you being glib?

    That’s the best I can come up with given the history of this team.

  21. I know I scared a lot of you guys when I talked about my personal draft experience, but I want y’all to relax. Rest assured, the Knicks have drafted just as poorly the times I’ve stayed home.

  22. I think its either Winslow or WCS. I don’t see us doing a trade down unless its highly favorable to us.

    Everyone who keeps posting all this Phil is going to screw it up and do something Knicksy stuff…come on. Phil has yet to make a super Knicksy move. You can lament that the Chandler trade didn’t turn out in our favor but everyone liked it at the time. We got rid of Felton and got back Calderon (upgrade at the time), Dalembert (who wasn’t going to stick around), a late first round pick (Larkin) and some second round picks. Every move he has made has gotten rid of salary and bad attitudes and gotten back picks or prospects. This is what rebuilding looks like. Not every prospect you get back is going to work out and the jury is still out on Early and Thanis (and don’t forget the French dude!) anyways.

    I get that people don’t like the Melo resign but honestly did you really think that was ever an option with any GM?

  23. There’s a school of thought that Isiah was good at drafting, though apparently awful at everything else.

    WCS scares me a bit at #4. Can his foot handles the rigors of an 82 game schedule?

    Yeah, the Melo resign is the only move of PJ’s so far that I really dislike.

  24. Also, if by the time this draft is over we have anything other than Russell, WCS, or Winslow, the grade is F and I am out on the Phil Jackson era. Unless we get Mudiay, in which case I guess maybe I’d give it a C and remain extremely discouraged by the Phil Jackson era.

  25. Phil has yet to make a super Knicksy move.

    He’s had no cap room and no assets to trade, so he hasn’t really had a chance to make a super Knicksy move until now. What he has done so far can best be described as suboptimal. And it seems that his goal is more: “build the best team around Carmelo now” than “do what’s best for the long term of this franchise”, so it is very fair to be frightened.

    I think Thursday is an absolute no-brainer: Take who you think is the best player in the draft at 4, and move on. If we do anything besides that, we probably fucked this up.

  26. Monta Ellis is opting out.

    Now, if Phil maxes him out, then I think it would be time to be afraid, very afraid……

  27. Do people think that us getting Monroe is pretty much locked down? If we are getting Monroe I think we should go after Porzingis because he can shoot it and I think has potential to play defense. He looks pretty athletic, is a legit 7’0 and i think the weight thing is not a concern because guys “magically” put on weight in the nba. I remember reading the main concerns with Noah was that he couldn’t put on weight but now is a legit center.

  28. I feel pretty confident we are not signing Monta Ellis.

    Re: Monroe – Chris Herring mentioned it on Twitter yesterday and I’ve noticed it too – Phil has consistently talked about a rim protector and a guy who can guard on the perimeter on switches as what he wants in a big. That’s always sounded like Tyson Chandler (mentioned by name I think?!), Deandre Jordan, and maybe WCS out of this draft class. And he also mentioned in his presser yesterday that he’d like to play Melo at the 4 if he could find a rim protecting big. Really really feels like we’re talking about drafting WCS or going hard after Jordan or Marc Gasol. Monroe doesn’t fit any of what Phil has been talking about. The reason people think we’re going for Monroe is because of the agent (David Falk, MJ’s old agent) and because of Charley Rosen. I highly highly doubt Rosen is out there talking without Phil’s approval, and it makes no sense for Phil to be truthfully telegraphing his moves as much as he would be if what Rosen’s saying is all true.

  29. It seems very clear to me…

    Towns, Okafor and Russell are gone. Now we have a 4-man multiple-choice:
    WCS, Winslow, Zinger or Mudiay.

    I predict WCS because he delivers immediately on the defensive end and because I believe he’ll develop offensively. More important, I believe Phil wants this type of player and he’s the one we’ve heard the least about.

    And I think what we do in free agency depends a great deal on the draft.

  30. If we are getting Monroe I think we should go after Porzingis because he can shoot it and I think has potential to play defense.

    This is why people are scared. There’s absolutely no reason “who fits best with Carmelo Anthony and Player X” should be a factor in our decision. But there is strong reason to suspect it’s a major factor.

    We have the 4th pick in a fairly decent-looking draft, and we have every need under the sun. Our only thought process should be: who do we think is the best player here.

    (BTW, didn’t mean to call you out, airkent. I just used your quote to highlight my fear that our thought process may be too heavily influenced by what works best for Carmelo.)

  31. No no and no to Porzingis.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106856/nba-draft-the-numbers-on-international-lottery-picks

    This is such a lazy argument. The failure of the lottery foreign players has to do with player evaluation, not foreign players in general. Just on the Spurs, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Boris Diaw, and Splitter would all be super high lottery picks if you did those drafts over again. Ibaka would be a top 3 or 4 pick in his draft. Gasol would be a top 3 pick in his draft.

    Seriously – just in the 2008 draft here are the international players that on redraft you would almost certainly draft in the top 1/2 of the 1st round: Batum, Koufos, Gallinari, Pekovic, Ibaka, Dragic, and maybe Asik. That’s 50% of the lottery right there instead of Beasley, Mayo, Eric Gordon, Augustin, Bayless, Jason Thompson, Brandon Rush.

    So their argument basically is: “we such at figuring out which international players are the best, so best if you just don’t even try even though there are franchise-changing international players in most years”.

  32. This is why people are scared. There’s absolutely no reason “who fits best with Carmelo Anthony and Player X” should be a factor in our decision. But there is strong reason to suspect it’s a major factor

    This is nonsense. The guy is the cornerstone of the franchise like it or not. He’s here for at least 4 more years so yeah he matters. Also fit around Melo doesn’t necessarily mean anything with regards to difference in picks. Who in this draft doesn’t fit with Melo? The answer is no one. So stop the bull shit

  33. The article on international players has a major methodological flaw. It didn’t look at the average position drafted for the international lottery picks compared to the US college players. If the average position drafted for the international picks was say, 11th, and the average position for the US college players was say 7th then you couldn’t conclude that European players were busts compared to the US players, because you would expect more all star appearances out of higher draft picks. You could only conclude that the European players were generally weaker, but they could still have lived up to the average performance for where they were drafted.

  34. I think if we are going to sign Monroe we have to pick a guard. We need to fill a roster. Melo and Calderon are our only real rotation players, with Galloway and THJ on the fringe. If you sign Monroe and draft a big, you are committing to Melo back at the 3, or you are signing a bench player. we need starters. Unless we feel zinger can play the 3??

  35. The reason people think we’re going for Monroe is because of the agent (David Falk, MJ’s old agent) and because of Charley Rosen

    No, the reason is that he’s an elite post-up player and the Triangle needs someone like that or it ain’t the Triangle (aka Triple-Post Offense). We do know he’s implementing the Triangle because he’s holding 2-hour chalk sessions on the Triangle with the potential draftees. And could we stop reading anything into what Jax says:

    We’re not interested in guys who are just interested in the money and in their branding.

    Signs Melo to max ntc 5-year deal contract.

    we’re going to be a defensive-minded team

    Calderon, Melo and Jah are his major pick-ups.

  36. Seriously – just in the 2008 draft here are the international players that on redraft you would almost certainly draft in the top 1/2 of the 1st round: Batum, Koufos, Gallinari, Pekovic, Ibaka, Dragic, and maybe Asik. That’s 50% of the lottery right there instead of Beasley, Mayo, Eric Gordon, Augustin, Bayless, Jason Thompson, Brandon Rush.

    Yeah, but would you use the 4th pick on any of those guys except maybe Ibaka? I’d have no problem taking a chance on Zinger at 6-10, but at 4, definitely not.

  37. I understand all the pessimism obviously given the way this team has been run, but we’re actually in a pretty solid spot right now. Even assuming Russell and Okafor don’t drop, if we draft any of WCS, Winslow, Mudiay, or Prozingis we have a pretty good shot at signing 2 guys in free agency and building a decent 2-way team next year. For example:

    Draft Mudiay: Sign a good defensive big like Jordan, Asik, Gasol, or Lopez and a 2 way wing like Danny Green, Afflalo, Carroll or Wes Matthews and add another big with the bi-annual like Aminu or Brandon Bass. Going into next year with a top 8 of say, Calderon/Mudiay/Green/ Melo/Lopez/Galloway/Aminu/THJ seems reasonable.

    Draft Winslow: Same Thing. You could start Green and Winslow interchangeably at the 2 and 3.

    Draft WCS: Sign a playmaking forward like Monroe or Millsap, a 2 way wing, and an Aminu-type guy with the biannual. Go into next year with a top 8 of say, Calderon/Green/Melo/Monroe/WCS/Galloway/Aminu/THJ.

    Draft Zinger: Sign a defensive center, a 2 guard and same deal with the biannual. Top 8 could be Calderon/Green/Melo/Zinger/Lopez/Galloway/Aminu/THJ.

    While those teams aren’t contenders, they’re all probably good enough for a 4 or 5 seed in the East. Given that we don’t have our draft pick next year anyway that’s fine. And then we’d have more flexibility to add pieces when the cap goes up next year. I think the WCS plan is probably my favorite, but I’d really be fine with any of them.

  38. lol if there is any reason not to draft Porzingis, this is it. He is clearly not right in the head.

    @ESPNAndyKatz: Kris Porzingis says NYK is best organization in NBA. Also can handle spotlight in NY. Did pro day in LV, visited NY

  39. To survive in NY you clearly CAN’T be right in the head. I like him even more now! :P

  40. by the way why is there no love for Justin Anderson from Virginia?

    Elite defender according to basically all reports, helped to anchor the perimeter of what was probably the best defense in the country. Shot 43.5% on 3 pointers (improved markedly this year although apparently his form got a lot better too). kinda wonder whether he could give you 80% of what Winslow does but only be a late 1st rounder. Perhaps we could buy a pick?

  41. This is nonsense. The guy is the cornerstone of the franchise like it or not. He’s here for at least 4 more years so yeah he matters. Also fit around Melo doesn’t necessarily mean anything with regards to difference in picks. Who in this draft doesn’t fit with Melo? The answer is no one. So stop the bull shit

    This team has no talent and doesn’t have the means to acquire enough of it to contend quickly. Carmelo is likely gone in 1-2 years. We are rebuilding. Everyone on the Knicks needs to come to grips with that and take the best player on the board, regardless of how he fits with Melo or in the triangle.

  42. @40 – That dove-tails with what I said earlier but I think that from management’s perspective, Calderon is in the rotation. THJ, Galloway and Early are there too, either as signed players or players with team options and it’s obvious that we need the most help in the front court. That’s why the likeliest scenario is the one you laid out for WCS where we end up with something like a top 8 of: Calderon, Green, Melo, Monroe, WCS, Galloway, Aminu, THJ.

    I’m not sure which free agents we bring in, but it would be a much better team than last year’s. The keys are 1) the free agent signings 2) Melo learning to play well with others.

  43. While I think Phil will take Russell if he’s there because of his passing skills, I don’t understand why everybody is so high on the guy. His offensive stats against >.500 this past season were pedestrian at best and his defense is Calderonesque. I really hope 76ers take this guy to save us. people swoon over him like they used to re Jason Williams.

  44. Everyone on the Knicks needs to come to grips with that and take the best player on the board, regardless of how he fits with Melo or in the triangle.

    Thats my point. Anyone can play with Melo. What does picking the best player have to do with Melo? Hes there yes, so you wont pick someone who is exactly like him, but that doesnt exist in this draft. Anyone would fit with him.

  45. Zero Myles Turner love.
    Also, I think Phil goes Koufos as the rim protecting defensive anchor and grab Tobias at the 3 to move Melo to the 4.

  46. @Probaskeballdraft (some guy who is based in Cleveland and writes for sheridanhoops) seems to think the Lakers are going to take Russell and that Philly will auction off the 3rd pick to teams trying to get Okafor “thereby leaving the Knicks heartbroken”.

    Not sure if the guy has any real sources but apparently his sources are saying the Knicks are targeting Winslow, Lyles, or Sam Dekker at #4 if the top 3 don’t fall. I will have a heart attack if we pick Sam Dekker at 4.

  47. The Knicks can only pick one of 5 or 6 players at #4. KAT, D Russell, Okafor, Mudiay, Winslow, and Porzingis. WCS’s foot history might make him fall, but he could also be the pick at 4. Lyles, Kaminsky, Dekker, or anything assinine like that and I don’t think I can follow basketball anymore. I really get the feeling PJax is going to outsmart himself and that will be it for me. Just take a good player and be happy.

  48. Lyles, Kaminsky, Dekker, or anything assinine like that and I don’t think I can follow basketball anymore. I really get the feeling PJax is going to outsmart himself and that will be it for me. Just take a good player and be happy.

    well, it was nice knowing you =)

    @FisolaNYDN: When I asked Trey Lyles if he’s headed to the Knicks, his Kentucky teammates Karl Anthony Towns & Devin Booker smiled and nodded.

  49. I don’t know who to pick because my top 2 guys have murky medical issues. There is a metabolic rate test and Zinger could have dispelled a lot of doubts about his ability to add weight by publishing the result of that test. And Detective Cronin’s visual forensics showing Zinger did not gain an ounce in a year is quite compelling, especially when he had a lot to gain (other than weight) by doing so.

    WCS foot injury is very worrisome. Julius Randle fractured his foot, came back and played well for a year or so, and then fractured his tibia. That said, Stein played football for at least 4 years and his body apparently held up. So is his body susceptible to fractures? Who knows.

    I’d probably trade down. IGNORING MEDICAL ISSUES, here is how I organize the draft picks:
    Tier 1: Towns, WCS, Zinger
    Tier 2: Okafor, Winslow
    Tier 3: Russell, Mudiay, Kaminsky, Hezonja, Johnson

  50. Phil’s just trying to inflate Lyles’ value so that he gets picked first by Minnesota and Towns falls to us via the power of Zen magic right? Right? Please be right.

  51. Just saw that Kevin Love opted out – hitting free agency on 7/1. Does that mean anything for us?

  52. Going on record that I think the pick will be Winslow.

    I prefer WCS or Porzingis, but wouldn’t be depressed about Winslow.

  53. In theory, I’d take Stein/trade down Myles Turner and pare one of the two with Love.

  54. Via people tweeting about what he’s saying – it sounds like Chad Ford is saying that Mudiay is Philly’s guy and that by saying all this about Russell and Porzingis they’re trying to get us or Orlando to trade up with them. Lucky we have no assets to give them in trade!! *cries uncontrollably in the corner*

    With the noise from Woj saying Boston wants to sign Love, Pierce, Robin Lopez — sounds like perhaps no $ for Jae Crowder. I would love to sign him as an under the radar guy. Great glue guy, great defender, good enough from 3.

  55. Trey Lyles won’t be so bad if he comes with another quality player in the same area of the draft because we traded down. The thing that scared me batshit crazy today was the article suggesting that the main player Phil wants to bring back from last year is Jason Smith.

  56. @50
    Def like Myles Turner. Also like Sam Dekker. And Trey Lyles. As mid round picks of course.

    Draft Express is my fourth most visited page now. Lol

  57. Just saw that Kevin Love opted out – hitting free agency on 7/1. Does that mean anything for us?

    Yes…. the Beach Boy is going to the beach in LA to join Kobe and Melo (for their #2) and Randle :-)

  58. With the noise from Woj saying Boston wants to sign Love, Pierce, Robin Lopez — sounds like perhaps no $ for Jae Crowder. I would love to sign him as an under the radar guy. Great glue guy, great defender, good enough from 3.

    Lol. Now that’s a big 3. Forget about Lebron and Kyrie. I want to play with 38 year old Paul Pierce and the lesser Lopez.

  59. I really get the feeling PJax is going to outsmart himself and that will be it for me. Just take a good player and be happy.

    What is the matter with everyone here. What is it in Jackson’s life’s arc that makes anyone think he is foolish. Success has seemed to follow him around pretty well, no?

    The Knicks are in desperate need of multiple quality 2 way players and Jackson knows this. Let’s see what he comes up with before we whine like babies, no?

  60. @FisolaNYDN: When I asked Trey Lyles if he’s headed to the Knicks, his Kentucky teammates Karl Anthony Towns & Devin Booker smiled and nodded.

    This is so Isola. For all we know they were smiling and nodding because someone else had just asked them if they like ice cream.

  61. What is it in Jackson’s life’s arc that makes anyone think he is foolish.

    Besides giving Carmelo Anthony a five year max contract with a no trade clause?

  62. That desire on the part of Boston suggests they don’t think much of the guys they got in the past two or three drafts.

  63. Isola has pretty much become a disgruntled curmudgeon that hates anything having anything to do with the Knicks. It’s hard to take anything he or Berman says seriously. The only unbiased and serious reporting on the Knicks in NY is come from the NY Times and Chris Herring at The WSJ (and from here of course).

  64. Besides giving Carmelo Anthony a five year max contract with a no trade clause?

    This doesnt hamper the team. This is a bare cupboard. You have one star player then nothing. If you draft right and add quality players we are on the way. When the cap goes up we can add more.

  65. No Zinger please! Even if he turns out to be any good it will likely be 3-4 years from now. Too much bust potential for me. If they are signing Monroe, I’m not sure why they would pick WCS, as that would force Melo back to the 3, which seems less than ideal on defense. WCS does would provide tremendous versatility when other teams go small, which is all the rage now, he can stay on the floor and effectively guard a smaller player as he’s demonstrated. This would allow his team to stay “big”, so that would be a big positive. Hopefully Russell falls to the Knicks or maybe Mudiay as the backcourt lacks everything. However, being a Knicks fan since childhood, I know they have a long history of screwing up the draft, so I am ready to be disappointed.

  66. Besides giving Carmelo Anthony a five year max contract with a no trade clause?

    OK…. let’s do something un Knicks fanlike and think things through. Had Jackson let him walk for nothing what would have that accomplished? No seats sold at the Garden (they are running a business, you know). Who would have come to play for the Knicks (FA’s) a team headed by JR, Shumpert and Cole? NOBODY.

    Melo is an asset with value on the market beyond what is thought here, generally. He is going to be moved at some point for multiple assets of value. Or … he might actually contribute on a team with a couple of coming young players and a couple of reasonable 2 way FA’s

  67. @76 I don’t think the preferred option was to allow Melo to walk for nothing. I think many of us would have been happy if we got back half as much as we gave up for him in a sign and trade. That’s spilled milk. On to the draft and free agency.

  68. Bob Neptune, I don’t want to get start another Melo debate. I was all for accomodating a sign-and-trade at the time with Chicago (though I doubt we could have nabbed Butler like revisionists pretend), but I’ll concede signing him to the full max could be described as not foolish, depending on your POV.

    The full NTC was absolutely foolish, though. There is no other word to describe that. Full NTCs are extremely rare in the NBA. Kobe has one, bc he gets whatever he wants. And Dirk, KG and Duncan (who took true discounts after delivering titles) had them. No other NBA player had a NTC at the time (Wade was given one after).

    I’m not saying Phil has lost the plot, but it’s absolutely fair to wonder if he isn’t cut out to be a GM/President. Just bc he was a great coach doesn’t mean we should have absolute faith in his ability to succeed at this job. And frankly, his public comments concern me. He seems obsessed with proving that his way of winning basketball isn’t outdated and is better than the other ways teams are currently winning with.

    I’m going to wait and see what happens Thursday, but I’m apprehensive and I don’t think it’s uncalled for.

  69. So anything about a 4 for 6 n’ 7?

    I think it is really unlikely, unless Denver really loves Porzingis and he is still there; but i doubt it (They could shop Lawson to Sacramento, we could also simply ask them to get another top 10 pick, which leaves the door open to Detroit giving up #8 for something like Wilson Chandler, and THJr). Everyone after Towns has very big question marks.

    I personally like Towns, Okafor, Mudiay, Hezonja, Turner

    and dont want any of Russell, Winslow, WCS, Porzingis

    But this draft will be an enigma till three years from now.

  70. The full NTC was absolutely foolish, though.

    I just couldn’t disagree with you more. None of us were in on the negotiations. We don’t know the dynamic. Clearly Jackson values Melo as an asset and he wasn’t prepared to see him walk out the door for nothing or a warm buck of spit “package”.

    He knows if Melo isn’t happy with the direction of the Knicks in the short term he is going to walk into Phil’s office with a list of places he wants to go, and if that list isn’t extensive to where Phil can get a reasonable package, Phil can tell him to widen his list or shut the @#$% up and collect his money as we can lose 60 games without him as well as with him.

    Leverage is often a fluid thing…..

  71. He knows if Melo isn’t happy with the direction of the Knicks in the short term he is going to walk into Phil’s office with a list of places he wants to go, and if that list isn’t extensive to where Phil can get a reasonable package, Phil can tell him to widen his list or shut the @#$% up and collect his money as we can lose 60 games without him as well as with him.

    Or he can go in with a list of one place, and no matter what Phil tells him, he won’t be able to widen that list because he gave Melo all the power last summer. The Knicks may be inept and poorly run, but even Jim Dolan is likely to object if his GM says “here’s my plan, I want to pay Melo $25mm a year and not play him because he won’t widen his list. ”

    And what makes you think Phil, who gave Melo everything he wanted in the first negotiation, including giving him just the second full NTC in a max contract IN NBA HISTORY, would do better in a second negotiation in which he has even less leverage?

    You can argue that it may not destroy us, but I don’t see how you can argue it wasn’t foolish to give it to him.

  72. @72

    The only unbiased and serious reporting on the Knicks in NY is come from the NY Times and Chris Herring at The WSJ (and from here of course).

    I’m down with the statement between the parens ;)

    @78

    I don’t want to get start another Melo debate.

    I’m sorry :(
    I admit being in the minority here. I not only wanted Melo to return, I was desperate.

    Screw the future. The future is now. That’s how it is as you get on in age. Screw waiting for 2050 for this team. I would rather get a 8-seed or even compete for it rather than go through another season like last year when the team was just plain awful. This is my entertainment. I’m not a GM. I’m just an old fart. I want to be able watch basketball without needing to buy a new TV set every time because I put a shoe through it the last time.

  73. Anyway, let me ask you a different question:

    Why should Phil’s success as a coach merit full faith in his ability to deliver in his first major offseason as GM? Great coaches often make terrible GMs.

  74. Screw the future. The future is now. That’s how it is as you get on in age. Screw waiting for 2050 for this team. I would rather get a 8-seed or even compete for it rather than go through another season like last year when the team was just plain awful. This is my entertainment. I’m not a GM. I’m just an old fart. I want to be able watch basketball without needing to buy a new TV set every time because I put a shoe through it the last time.

    Fifteen years of this attitude got us where we are now.

  75. “Screw the future” should be on a huge banner hanging from the rafters of MSG.

  76. Jackson clearly has the philosophy that he wants create an organization that is known for treating players fairly and tries to meet their needs. From what he says, the trades of Stoudemire and Prigioni were examples of that. I think he’s right that this attitude will get to be known; the league isn’t that big, it has a lot of player movement and word gets around. The NTC was probably very important to Melo. He doesn’t want to get shipped to Podunk because of his wife’s job. He probably wouldn’t have accepted a pay cut without the NTC. And from his point of view, anything less than max was probably considered a pay cut. So Jackson got the best win-win he could find because he wants players to know he works with them and treats them fairly.

    Of course the NTC constrains the Knicks, but probably not as much as people here fear. If the Knicks get good and the cap goes up a lot, Melo will be quite affordable. If the rebuild fails, then Melo will be miserable and Phil will be able to work something out with him to move to a place he prefers. Of course if Melo gets injured or falls off a cliff in performance that would be very bad, but the NTC would have nothing to do with that since he’d then be virtually untradeable anyway.

    Jackson has been a player and I trust his judgement that it will make a difference to free agents that they trust they will be treated fairly by the Knicks. I like his philosophy on this. The decision of a free agent on where to go often comes down to emotion in the end because the market probably sets the rough salary he will get. We’ll see what happens after July 1st.

  77. It’s pretty pointless to debate Jackson as a GM right now given that: A. we have a limited set of data with which to judge him and B. In literally less than 2 weeks we are going to have a much better sense of how he operates based on what he does tomorrow night and in free agency. So I get being nervous but come on, like @86 said we’ll see pretty soon.

  78. Sam Smith’s rumor is Nurkic and the 7 for the 4. I think I would do that.

  79. The issue is not to debate his only significant move, sjk.

    Bob basically said we’re all crazy for thinking Phil can’t possibly screw this up because he was such a great coach, and I disagree.

    I’m no more confident going into this offseason than I have been in the past.

  80. Anyway, JR opted out of his contract and wants more money. Isn’t he precious?

  81. Sam Smith’s rumor is Nurkic and the 7 for the 4. I think I would do that</blockquote

    That'd be awesome, but he also says we'd target Lyles or Kaminsky at 7, so I gotta hope he's wrong, at least about that part of the rumor.

  82. Nah, JR just wants to go somewhere with more of a nightlife than Cleveland. So, anywhere else.

  83. I can see Nurkic might be good. He’s only 20, he was the sixteenth pick last year, he’s 6’11” 280 pound center who had reasonable stats for a rookie. He rebounded particularly well. I could get use to that.

  84. “Screw the Future” – our new motto.

    I can see where this needs some explaining. How long have the Mets been in “rebuilding” mode? What I’ve learned is that you can’t predict the future and giving up on the now typically destroys that future. Look at the 76’ers and the Kings now. How many years have they been in the lottery now? Do they look like they’re ever getting out of it? No.

    And why are the Knicks unattractive now to free agents? Because there’s nothing there. When Stoudemire came to the Knicks, suddenly players were saying to themselves, ‘OK, I can be that last piece of the puzzle (Melo). Right or wrong, by concentrating on the future, you doom it. Build a team and sustain it.

    The model that works is the George Steinbrenner model. Build a winner quickly and keep it winning forever.

  85. Not sure how Melo’s contract and a rebuild are mutually exclusive.

    Not even sure what rebuild means.

    Is rebuilding maintaining low overhead and at what point should a team spend and on whom?

    How many bad teams have stayed in prolonged rebuild mode because they aren’t able to lure the right player to begin spending and recalibrating the model? And is that mode considered less of a failure than a middling to good rebuild because the expectations aren’t incrementally raised?

    Memphis went from 25 wins to a playoff team after trading for Randolph and then giving him a big contract after its first playoff run.

    Randolph and Gay allowed the Grizzlies to be competitive as Gasol, Conley, Allen developed.

    There are a lot of ways to build a good team.

    The second pseudo-dynasty Pistons tinkered around with a bunch of solid to slightly overrated players around Ben Wallace before the Hamilton, Chauncey, Prince off-season.

    None of those moves had the superficial appearance of turning Detroit into a dominant club.

    There are so many different ways to do it. All of them require luck.

    Melo is a player that can be “built around” in myriad ways. None of them should restrain the Knicks from acquiring the players they feel will be the best.

    Who knows what the Knicks could have been had Amar’es knees not gone. Regardless of the likelihood of such an occurrence, the Knicks did not have good luck.

    When a net negative player (due to injury) occupies a third of your cap, you’re not supposed to be competitive.

    And yet Melo was the foundation of three playoff teams with that albatross.

    If Melo ages as he ought to, that should be the floor for the Knicks as soon as next season.

    A team that can win now and even more in the future. That’s how to do it.

  86. @96 I love Nurkic. If we could swing that trade and still get one of the top 7 guys, ie Winslow or even WCS though they’re kinda redundant, I do that trade in a heartbeat.

  87. Please don’t compare the way baseball teams are run to how any other American sport is run. Salary cap is a big deal.

  88. If Melo ages as he should we should be competitive next season.

    *Melo gets hurt out of the gate, is relatively ineffective and misses half the season. *

    If Melo ages as he should. . .

  89. I think Denver adding Eric Green and a 2nd or Gary Harris/Hardaway JR swap would make me jump, maybe.

    Also, taking Calderon would be nice.

    The real issue is Nurkic health and the left patella tear he suffered.

  90. yea the knee is an issue with nurkic… the offense i’m not too worried about… players tend to get more efficient as they get older once they know who they are on offense…

  91. I would be really happy with Justise Winslow but I think he’s the least likely to “fit”. I know how stupid that sounds when discussing a 17 win team but, with Carmelo there, I don’t see it happening. Too bad, because I really like him and I’ve actually seen him play a number of times.

    Does anyone imagine there’s a deal for Melo? His presence is making me all kinds of skittish. I am a fan of his. I really like him, well, I mean I respect his game (his personality is meh), more than most and don’t just consider him a spoilt baby like most on this site (I appreciate and always root for your defenses of him ruru and er against the evil Jowles:) but i just think he’s in a different place. We need a new cornerstone who’s younger. (Could Winslow be that good?) Now, don’t you think CHI and LAC are fuking PINING for this guy? He would have put them over the top if they didn’t have to give anything more than $ in return. And that’s all we’d really need. Just match the salary on one year deals. Then we take our fourth pick, give out careful contracts this summer, play fucking WELL if not great and show KD that the triangle works. Then compete for a chip in 2017.

    Whaddya think? Pay me money, NBA. I’m sittin’ by the phone.

  92. There’s no way we’re trading Melo, it just won’t happen. And while we shouldn’t be worrying about fit anyway, Winslow would be fine next to Melo either at the 2 in bigger lineups or at the 3.

  93. “I understand all the pessimism obviously given the way this team has been run, but we’re actually in a pretty solid spot right now.”

    SJK, this is a fantastic post and what I’d like to see more of.

    Porzingas has everyone all PTSD with Frederic Weis comparisons. Have you looked at a lot of footage? My worry is David Lee. Offense looks great but nowhere to hide on D. Look at all the players who just could not get floor time in the playoffs. Either for lack of defense or FT’s usually.

    On Mudiay, is he a good enough shooter to keep defenses honest now and can he develop to 30+% from 3, 80=% from the line?

    Seems like it’s between those two. I have no idea if Cauley-Stein can shoot because coach never let him. Same with Towns but it looks like that’s a lock. Wiggins and Towns are gonna be a fun little case study on building through the draft. What do two #1’s = in terms of wins? 30+ in year 1? 40+? (maybe most years you might as well get Eric Bledsoe)

  94. Winslow would be fine next to Melo either at the 2 in bigger lineups or at the 3.

    That would make me very happy. I’ll call Phil and tell him.

  95. How long have the Mets been in “rebuilding” mode?

    The Mets were a terrible team with a terrible farm system, a nightmarish payroll situation and no future when Sandy Alderson took over. They’re a .500 team with a top farm system and a flexible payroll now, and they would have contended this year without a horrible string of injuries. Going forward they are in very good shape– they have a lot of good, young, cost-controlled pieces.

    What should they have done instead, signed Stephen Drew and Michael Bourne and traded away their young guys for a bunch of “win-now” pieces like the Knicks would have done? Fuck that.

  96. The guys who own the mets are also hilariously broke. I can’t wait for the Yankees to buy the good players they develop

  97. Blazers trade Batum for Vonleh and Gerald Henderson. Getting way ahead of myself but that certainly looks like a trade announcing that Portland is rebuilding, and I would speculate that if they’re doing that it’s because they have reason to believe Aldridge will not be returning. I’m guessing he would not be near the top of any Knickerblogger’s fantasy signings?

  98. My thing about Zinger is that at 7’2″ with a 7’6+” wingspan, he doesn’t have to be in perfect position to bother shots, he just has to stick his arms up. It’s not like he’s immobile or can’t jump. As a 19yo he’s holding his own vs. grown men who can play. Check out the Schmitz tape Porzingis vs. Barcelona, who has 8 NBA former players or draft picks and might be the best team not in the NBA.

    http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Kristaps-Porzingis-vs-Barcelona-Video-Analysis-4793

    At worst, he will be a 6″ taller, poorer ball-handling version of Mike Dunleavey, which is a valuable asset that can be traded if necessary. Or maybe a 2″ shorter and smarter Ralph Sampson (talk about skinny…look at his rookie highlights!)

    He’s not gonna be Bargnani (a village idiot level b-ball IQ) or Milicic (can’t shoot and isn’t mobile) or Vesely (come on, it’s ot even close.)

    I’m OK if Phil decides to take Okafor or Russell if they fall, and maybe either Winslow, Hezonja or WCS over him if they don’t. But Mudiay has even more question marks and bust potential.

  99. By the time the Yankees “buy” deGrom, Harvey and Syndergaard, the Mets will have flipped them for… wait for it… more young, cost-controlled pieces. This is the way smart teams like the Braves and Cardinals operate. The Mets may be poor, but they’re not dumb anymore. Better to be poor and smart than rich and dumb.

  100. I don’t believe the Portland deal was about rebuilding, I think it was about Batum making a lot of money and not having a great year last year. Now the Blazers can re-sign Matthews and Aldridge without destroying their cap.

  101. Charlotte wheeling and dealing. Would like to try and snag Biyombo from them on the relative cheap. OKC giving away Lamb for nothing is stupid, he’s no stud but deserved a chance over Dion Waiters.

  102. No thanks to Kevin Love? Why not? If you sign Kevin Love this off season and Kevin Durant next off-season wouldn’t that make you the favorite to win the East? Especially if you draft a stud at #4, you have to go after the best players you can get. Kevin Love is officially the best unrestricted free agent on the open market and he needs to be the Knicks’ priority.

  103. All this talk since the lottery has got me so turned around that at this point I don’t even know what I want. Just someone good please that has great potential and is rootable (as an Australian that feels like a weird adjective. I want to be happy to cheer for them, not have sex with them ha ha).

    I feel if anything I wouldn’t hate if we nabbed WCS. That is taking into account Okafor or Russell don’t drop to us, which seems likely. I like that Phil has been taking into account character in addition to obviously scouting talent. So often the best long term players aren’t necessarily college superstars. That said, probably best to just pick best available. In summary…….I have no idea.

  104. The second pseudo-dynasty Pistons tinkered around with a bunch of solid to slightly overrated players around Ben Wallace before the Hamilton, Chauncey, Prince off-season.

    None of those moves had the superficial appearance of turning Detroit into a dominant club.

    There are so many different ways to do it. All of them require luck.

    Melo is a player that can be “built around” in myriad ways. None of them should restrain the Knicks from acquiring the players they feel will be the best.

    Who knows what the Knicks could have been had Amar’es knees not gone. Regardless of the likelihood of such an occurrence, the Knicks did not have good luck.

    When a net negative player (due to injury) occupies a third of your cap, you’re not supposed to be competitive.

    And yet Melo was the foundation of three playoff teams with that albatross.

    If Melo ages as he ought to, that should be the floor for the Knicks as soon as next season.

    A team that can win now and even more in the future. That’s how to do it.

    Everything you’ve said in that post is wrong except for the part about luck. Everything.

  105. I don’t believe the Portland deal was about rebuilding, I think it was about Batum making a lot of money and not having a great year last year. Now the Blazers can re-sign Matthews and Aldridge without destroying their cap.

    It’s possible I guess but it’s not like it opens any real space for them this year, and Batum expires after next year anyway. So it’s not like this move has any real long term cap implications for them, it just saves them a bit next year. If they really have aspirations of competing in the West they need to be maxing out every area possible, not saving a few pennies on their tax payment and picking up mildly intriguing 19 year olds.

  106. OKC giving away Lamb for nothing is stupid, he’s no stud but deserved a chance over Dion Waiters.

    Where’d Lamb go? He’s been on my target list for a while. Not a great player, but he’s still cheap and he can do some things.

  107. @122 to Charlotte apparently in exchange for Matt Barnes, who OKC will just waive.

  108. It’s possible I guess but it’s not like it opens any real space for them this year, and Batum expires after next year anyway. So it’s not like this move has any real long term cap implications for them, it just saves them a bit next year. If they really have aspirations of competing in the West they need to be maxing out every area possible, not saving a few pennies on their tax payment and picking up mildly intriguing 19 year olds.

    Woj says that they ran the deal by Aldridge first. They claim they’re not rebuilding. I think they just don’t like Batum that much and wanted to replace Afflalo while re-signing Matthews and Aldridge, with Matthews playing the 3 and Henderson the 2. I’m not saying I like the idea, either, but that appears to be their thinking.

  109. @122 to Charlotte apparently in exchange for Matt Barnes, who OKC will just waive.

    Is it just to save some money on re-signing Kanter?

  110. @122 to Charlotte apparently in exchange for Matt Barnes, who OKC will just waive.

    Is it just to save some money on re-signing Kanter?

    How does a professional basketball team make that Dion Waiters trade?

  111. How does a professional basketball team make that Dion Waiters trade?

    Desperation I guess. They had Westbrook and KD out for significant stretches of the season and wanted to keep up in the West in the interim. Dumb move from a franchise most initially thought were pretty clever for the way they built the team. Post Harden trade it would be hard to give the OKC front office a pass on some of the moves they’ve made (i.e. not re-signing Kevin Martin, Waters trade etc.). Hindsight might suggest they got lucky with their draft picks, as opposed to any real front office genius.

  112. Just watched the Knicks Now: Draft Special.

    Al Trautwig asked Phil Jackson if there could be surprises and he strongly suggested that there would be. What does Phil have in mind?

    @100

    Please don’t compare the way baseball teams are run to how any other American sport is run. Salary cap is a big deal.

    The salary cap is a big deal and basketball is different, but how free agents view the roster of players in the NBA is actually MORE important because of it. The max or near-max players care about who they can team up with because it’s tough to outbid the competition. How many players think that playing in NY is too tough? How many think that the Knicks are cancerous? Who’s singing the praises of playing in NY? So getting good, now, is critical. Until you’re good, the number of free agents that are attracted to you is limited.

    Less than 24 hours to go.

  113. Also, if we can move Timmy for Biyombo, we won’t need to go big in the draft.

    It’s very possible that Charlotte doesn’t give Biyombo a qualifying offer and he becomes unrestricted. I really doubt we’d be interested, though. The guy has stone hands, is a very poor passer and can’t shoot. Those are all skills that seem to be valued pretty highly by Phil. His rebounding and defense would be great, though…

  114. Yeah, I was joking.

    I like Biyombo, and I would trade Tim Hardaway for a sack of basketballs, but his inability to pass or simply catch the basketball would be problems.

  115. I can’t believe we’re less than a day away. I don’t trust Ford with anything having to do with Mudiay, but fuck, I hope he is right that Philly likes him.

  116. I thought you wanted Philly to take the Zinger, Cronin. They can’t take them both.

  117. I highly doubt we can read anything into what Phil says tonight. I think he’s just having fun with the fact that everyone is saying they have no idea what the Knicks will do.

  118. I’m not really a big fan of bringing in players because they are “good for the triangle,” but Bismack Biyombo is uniquely bad for the triangle. The guy had 16 assists in 1243 minutes last year. A lot of that is because he doesn’t touch the ball a lot on the offensive end, but Biyombo did manage 52 turnovers. He is, uh, not real good with the ball in his hands. He is basically a guy you just do not pass the ball to at all. He is far from a useless player, because he rebounds, defends the pick and roll well, gets a good amount of garbage buckets and protects the rim but it is hard to see how somebody who is so utterly inept with the ball in his hands would be able to fit into the triangle offense.

    A more realistic target in a trade for THJ might be Cody Zeller, who is no world beater but who is a hell of a lot better at basketball than THJ, and who is a better fit for the offense. Charlotte is looking to move Zeller and to acquire a guard, and they seem like they’re all over the place in terms of personnel evaluation, so maybe they’d be stupid enough to move Zeller for THJ.

  119. I bet we do this Denver trade and add Nurkic.
    Then I bet we move down again to get C.J. Watson from Indy.
    THEN they’ll take Lyles or Kaminsky.

    Then we can watch Watson/free agent/Melo/Lyles/Nurkic all damn year!

  120. I would be sort of morbidly excited about getting Kaminsky.

    I mean, will he be awful or hold his own? No one knows.

  121. I bet we do this Denver trade and add Nurkic.
    Then I bet we move down again to get C.J. Watson from Indy.
    THEN they’ll take Lyles or Kaminsky.

    Then we can watch Watson/free agent/Melo/Lyles/Nurkic all damn year!

    Geez man! I just ate dinner.

  122. And for you Biyombophobes out there, he doubled his assist total between 2013 and 2014. If he gets into the triangle he could get 25, 30 assists easily.

    #factorial

  123. Jonathan Givony from Draftexpress just tweeted out that Porzingis and Hezonja are very much in play for us at #4. Not sure how I feel about that. I actually like Hezonja very much from what I’ve seen, although his comp is JR Smith. Of all people you’d think Phil would try to avoid a JR clone!

  124. @Frank: I don’t think Hezonja has Pipe’s “personality”.

    Actually, if Hezonja’s a hard worker, JR would be a great comp. When he put his mind to it, he could absolutely take over games and defend anyone…when he put his mind to it.

    Long as Hezonja’s not a headcase, I’d be just fine with that!

  125. Is it still possible the Knicks could buy a late first-rounder? There are some prospects I like who are projected to go near the end of the first round:

    Norman Powell, G, UCLA – Defense-oriented two-guard, highly athletic, good motor, high IQ defender, really plays all-out on D. Does everything you want out of a guard on defense, but is slightly undersized at 6’4″. Offensive game is lacking, as he does not shoot or drive well but I think Powell could be a decent situational player in the NBA because of his defense.

    Justin Anderson, SG/SF, Virginia – Good all-around player, also considered a high-IQ guy, does a little bit of everything and is a plus athlete. He was deadly from 3PT at Virginia last season and is no slouch on defense. Looks like a good bet to stick as a 3-and-D guy in the NBA. Very underrated in my opinion.

    Cedi Osman, F, Turkey – Under the radar Euro wing, good size for a SF at 6’8″, can knock down shots from the perimeter and is considered a good passer, smart player and strong defender. Looks like a fluid and confident player in game film.

    I also like Delon Wright of Utah as a possible triangle PG and Chris McCullough of Syracuse as a possible “buy low” type player with high upside.

  126. Man Hezonja’s scoring stats are pretty unreal this year in the 2 leagues he played in. In 62 games and ~1000 minutes he shot about 58% from 2 point range and 39% from 3 point range for a TS of 59 — all while hardly ever getting to the line. Imagine if James Harden could have an eFG of 59. His TS would be 80.

    His inability to get to the line is a little worrisome.

  127. Wow..what’s the deal in Portland? They could very well end the offseason without Matthews, Aldridge, Batum and Afflalo. Noah Vonleh better realize his pretty damn quick. I don’t think Aldridge is re-signing there. I see him in Dallas or San Antonio- depending on what TIMMAY decides to do. I definitely don’t want him on the Knicks though. 2 years ago- maybe. But I really don’t think he compliments Melo as well as Monroe or Marc Gasol. Plus- I wanna see the Knicks get younger AND more talented.

  128. Noah Vonleh better realize his pretty damn quick.

    Sorry..that was supposed to read “Noah Vonleh better realize his potential pretty damn quick”. For some reason, the editor’s not working for me today.

  129. I don’t know if I can think of a single player in the entire NBA who is a worse fit with Melo than Lamarcus Aldridge. So of course he will probably be a Knick.

  130. Yea that would be Knicksy. Let’s just hope Phil isn’t as impulsive as the 2 headed hydra that is Zeke Dolan LOL.

  131. I thought you wanted Philly to take the Zinger, Cronin. They can’t take them both.

    Either would be great! But yes, I guess I’d prefer Zinger so if he blows up then it isn’t the Knicks’ fault for passing on him.

  132. If we’re lucky its Mudiay, Winslow, and Porzingis. No Dekker, Lyles, or Kaminsky.

  133. I think that’s their way of saying if we don’t get Towns, Okafor, or Russell, we’ll trade the pick.

  134. Wow that Begley report is such a non story. He could just as well have said knicks have narrowed it down to 2, or 4, or 5and would have provided exactly the same amount of information: zero. Let’s hope they narrow it down to 1 by the time they get on the clock tomorrow…

  135. Reading into the Phil leaves:

    “In this day and age, it takes a little bit longer and we have to be a little bit more patient but at four we think we’ve got a player that’s going to be really good,” Jackson said.

    So, it’s going to be somebody that can be described as raw. That makes it the 3 international players: Porzingis, Hezonja, Mudiay. In that order. Personally I would reverse it, Zinger is a hell of a risk. But can’t be mad at the thought.

    Also add in that DX just put us up with Hezonja, and Kristaps saying he would love playing for the Knicks, it’s probably one of the two.

    Assuming PHI takes Russell.

  136. The more I think about it, the more I want Hezonja. Seems like his only weakness is mental consistency. He’s got all the other tools and is only 19, so it’s reasonable to think the mental aspects of the game will develop for him as he gets older and more experience. Also he could step in and play right away at the 2 or the 3 with no problem. Particularly if we’re gonna get one of the wing guys, give me Hezonja.

  137. @158
    Yeah, I’m watching Hezonja highlights getting hype!!! Lol. And he wears #8… Kobe fan?
    I’m kind of in love with Stanley Johnson, but Hezonja does seem to have a higher ceiling
    than Winslow.

  138. @161
    The last point, that one of the Morris twins is available. I would take Bledsoe, Morris and the #13 pick for the #4, Calderon and THJr (If that’s what they wanted to do, I’d rather they keep the pick). Only thing that, coupled with Free Agency, that kinda pushes you into East contention, then you wouldn’t wanna make any major changes the next season. So if that core doesn’t mix you could really be looking at least three years of mediocrity.

  139. Is anybody all that jazzed about either of the Morris twins? They both seem like pretty generic NBA forwards to me.

  140. But I really don’t think he compliments Melo as well as Monroe or Marc Gasol.

    That may be true, but no one compliments Melo like ruruland.

  141. Yeah I’m a little biased about the twins cause I did want the Knicks to draft them. But I would call
    them solid, tough, a little of everything type players. And they have big butts. Forgot
    they signed contract extensions though.

  142. Give me a pkg around Derrick Favors and the 12th pick as the Jazz look to bring back Millsap. If they would take Calderon while giving the Knicks Favors and the 12th I’d be ecstatic. Throw in Burkes oor/and Hood. Okay that’s greedy.

    Just taking Calderon would be cool and having Favors instead of Monroe would be excellent. Then again is Monroe and the 4th better than Favors/12th/+extra possibly? You would save more cash and get the younger and better defensive player.

    As I write this and continue to think the chance of the 4th pick being a home run maybe be the better way to go.

  143. I agree. Its a stacked draft, just take your chances. We’re spoiled, with reason, but
    the #4 pick still a very damn good spot. Lets not get too cute.

  144. I agree. Its a stacked draft, just take your chances. We’re spoiled, with reason, but
    the #4 pick still a very damn good spot. Lets not get too cute.

    True but Favors may be on his way to breaking out. Also, as I looked at the rumored frame work for their rumored deal last year to move up and take Wiggins, I think the knicks could get a really favorable deal if the Jazz are high on Porzingis. I know I said I was being greedy but I might not have been greedy enough. The Jazz was reportedly willing to move Favors, the 5th pick, the 23rd pick, and Alec Burks for Wiggins. That is a lot just to move up 4 spots. The jazz would be moving a greater distance this time and that could cost them a future 1st plus what I was thinking earlier. I think they would love to get Porzingis as much as they wanted Wiggins.

  145. Favors would be a good place to start for a trade for the knicks.

    I could see the appeal of a future Porzingis/Gobert front court. And since their core is so young they can afford to combine some assets and try to add one more blue chip type player before they can really start to think about contending. But isn’t an realistic expectation for Porzingis at minimum say 2-3 years before he could theoretically give you team changing production? Didn’t they finish the year very strong? I would stand pat in their situation as well.

  146. there are reports that they want to bring Millsap back and maybe they offer him more than ATL and the appeal of playing with his brother would be enough. Yes, ATL gives him the best chance to win but this is his first and last “big payday”. Millsap at the 4 gives Utah time to groom Zingi while he matures.

  147. This is the first time I’m actually glad I’m on the other side of the Atlantic ocean. I will wake up tomorrow morning so I won’t have to suffer second after second of this fucking thing:

    21:30 ET: NYK select WCS at #4 (yay!)
    22:10 ET: NYK trade WCS to Denver for Wilson Chandler and Emmanuel Mudiay (welp)
    22:30 ET: Actually, NYK trade WCS to Denver while getting Wilson Chandler and Trevor Booker. Emmanuel Mudiay goes to the Jazz (no wait)
    23:10 ET: NYK trade THJ and 2018 1st to Detroit for Jennings and Mario Hezonja (Nooooo! Stop trading future picks! But still, Hez could be a good player)
    23:30 ET: NYK trade Hezonja and Calderon to the Hornets for Al Jefferson. (What the heck are this pricks doing?)
    23:48 ET: your 2015/16 NYK are Jennings, Galloway, Chandler, Melo, Jefferson (Considering seppuku)

    At least I’ll wake up when the war is already over and I never had a chance to whet my appetite with any enticing draft prospect.

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