Knicks Draft 2015 Round Table: Part 5

The KnickerBlogger staff has decided to spend the 8 days prior to the draft discussing the upcoming event. Each day will feature a different question that we will attempt to answer. Feel free to join us in the comment section!

Of Kristaps Porzingis, Justise Winslow, Mario Hezonja, Trey Lyles, Willie Cauley-Stein, Frank Kaminksy, and Stanley Johnson, which is going to have the best NBA career?

Kurylo: I‘m going off the list. Myles Turner’s stats have me drooling: 11.8reb/40 and 4.7 blk/40. Both of those numbers are right in-line with Karl Towns (12.7/4.2). He also hits 83.9% of his free throws as well, and he’s no stranger from the 3 point line (3.3 3PA/40), but only at 27.4%. So at worst offensively he should be OK with the pick & pop, and he’s got a shot at being able to stretch the floor offensively. Defensively I think he’ll be good given his numbers and size (7-0).

Silverman: Justise. At worst, he’ll be defensive stopper about on par with Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. I think there’s so, so much more there, in particular a Jimmy Butler-esque ability to draw fouls. I do agree with my colleague Mr. Gibberman, namely that Willie Trill’s number two with a bullet. A legit center that can out to the perimeter to smother wings is such a vital skill given the direction that the NBA is #goink as a whole.

Gibberman: Justise Winslow with Willie Cauley-Stein a close second. Winslow will have the ability to defend one through four despite not measuring as tall as you would have liked. His wingspan more than made up for it. I’d bet on his shot creation skills improving with time and that’s what puts him ahead of WCS for me. WCS is a potential defensive player of the year and can create shots in a different way on offense (diving in the PnR), but his offensive impact won’t be that of Winslow.

Fisher-Cohen: If these were my options at #4, I’d probably go with one of the two Euros with Hezonja coming out ahead due to his NBA body. Hezonja has the size, agility and length to fit the new “positionless NBA” that Spoelstra talked about and that Golden State has fulfilled. He can already shoot and seems to be extremely athletic. All he has to do is improve his ball handling and learn how to draw contact, which is something numerous wings with similar athleticism and length have learned to do (Paul George, Gallinari, Klay Thompson, Hayward).

Topaz: Winslow, please and thank you. Porzingis is very appealing — partly because of his athleticism and shooting ability, partly because of the undeserved verbal thrashing he’d receive from well-lubricated Knicks fans at Barclay’s. But I have to agree with Robert, here. Winslow seems special. I don’t see many weaknesses, other than a little lack of polish on the offensive end. He’s strong, athletic, extremely tough, and an excellent defender at multiple positions whose game improved considerably on both ends as the college season went on.

Cronin: I think the most likely scenario is that WInslow has the best NBA career. But Cauley-Stein and Zinger could easily outperform him. Their likelihood of doing so, though, is not as great. I disagree, though, with the assertion that Winslow will be at worst as good as Kidd-Gilchrist on defense. He might be that good, but that’s an awfully high bar to expect a guy to hit as an “at worst.”

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Mike Kurylo

Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

151 thoughts to “Knicks Draft 2015 Round Table: Part 5”

  1. For those who really like Winslow, is he actually better than Johnson? Johnson seems to have a better stroke and could be even better on D.

  2. winslow is better.. he’s a better ball handler… a little smarter on offense and he’s much better at the rim… stanley is also 240 which i think is all muscle but i’m not sure how that’s going to affect him… he’s pretty much trapped as a sf while i think winslow can be a 2/3..

  3. Begley is saying that Detroit is interested in Tim Hardaway Jr (Yay!), but wants to give up Brandon Jennings (Boo!!! On contract until 2016, just injured, $8.3 M), and Dinwiddie (Eh).

    Unless they give up a couple of first rounders, this would be a horrible trade.

  4. Ian Begley reporting Pistons are trying to trade for THJ using Jennings.

    I want no part of him but id easily do THJ for Spencer Dinwiddie and a 2nd rounder this year. If the pistons really are interested, who says no?

  5. Folks, it’s a done deal – Phil’s drafting Stein. How do I know? Yesterday a WCS interview appeared in a certain paper. And today, in that newspaper, Berman interviews Charley Rosen, Phil’s longtime confidante, who says that Jax should select Stein if Towns and Okafor are off the board. Plus he says Stein and Monroe would make a great pairing. All of this is not an accident – it’s creating some positivity in advance of the selection.

    I would be ecstatic if we have Stein/Monroe/Melo/Danny Green. If Corey Joseph is agreeable to signing our offer sheet, then I try to dump Calderon. If not, then I give the room exception to solid 2-way vet CJ Watson and target Conley next summer.

    BTW Stein out on 20lbs in the last 3 months. let’s hope the extra weight does not impact his mobility. But it should help him in defensive rebounding, post defense, and establishing position in developing his own post game. I hope Phil puts a lot into developing him because he’s got real Dwight Howard potential.

  6. Great article by Howard Beck today on Phil Jackson. Phil’s goal here seems to be less “save the triangle” than “save basketball”- he thinks there’s too much isolation, 1-on-5, and not enough passing/penetration, defense, players with clear roles, interchangeable players who can all set up plays for each other, etc. Would have loved to hear more about 3-ball, but good read.

  7. Would be ecstatic if we rolled with that, Zanzibar.

    Hell, even a Calderon, Green, Melo, Monroe, WCS would be a great, great team to start next year with. If you can trade down 1-2 spots to get WCS and nab another pick, all the better, but not essential.

  8. Begley is saying that Detroit is interested in Tim Hardaway Jr (Yay!), but wants to give up Brandon Jennings (Boo!!! On contract until 2016, just injured, $8.3 M), and Dinwiddie (Eh).

    Unless they give up a couple of first rounders, this would be a horrible trade.

    Jennings is a decent player. He is only 25 and has improved every year he’s been in the league. He’s not a good shooter, but his shot selection has gotten a lot better (he used to shoot a lot more 10-20 footers). His assisting has gone up significantly and his turnovers have gone down. And at $8 mil he is a bargain, especially when you see the kind of money players worse than him are about to get in free agency. As it is now he is tied with OJ Mayo as the 75th highest paid player in the league. By July he probably won’t even be in the top 100. New York could do worse. Given the dearth of good point guards available on the free agent market this year, Jennings at $8 mil on an expiring contract is actually a pretty safe move.

  9. The money on a Jennings – Calderon/TH2 swap works perfectly, but I assume Detroit wants to free up money not add a longer contract.

    I agree with Z. Jennings on that contract is a good deal, and it’s only 2 years. You could do a lot worse than Jennings, that’s for sure.

  10. Eh, he’s a poor defender with questionable shooting skills, now healing from Achilles injury (and he’s still out), 0.357 from the 3, WS/48 of .091, TS 522 last year (498 career), and will be coming off the books when the cap skyrockets, so his 8M is actually higher than than it seems.

  11. Phil’s goal here seems to be less “save the triangle” than “save basketball”- he thinks there’s too much isolation, 1-on-5

    And yet his biggest move was to sign the biggest ball stopping ballhog to a max contract and effectively lock the team to be built around iso-ball.

  12. If we take Jennings, we would not be able to sign Danny Green or Carroll. Plus I think that CJ Watson at 2.5m room exception would be a better fit than Jennings (better defender, 3fg%).

  13. That’s true about Watson, thought I think he’ll command more than 2.5.

    If we could work a 3-way trade rerouting the 2nd rounder along with Calderon somewhere else, it might be a fine move.

    Get Sacto on the horn!

  14. getting rid of calderon’s contract isn’t a big deal.. he could just be stretched…

    jennings off an achilles tear… no thanks..

  15. I’ve liked Jennings for a while. Still like him now despite his flaws. But…the kid needs the ball. I don’t like him in the triangle. What sucks is the Knicks are being linked to some very talented PG’s who don’t necessarily fit the offensive system. I dunno..Fish is probably gonna hafta tweak the triangle. There are too many offers out there that doesn’t require the team’s back against the wall. I’m probably gonna hafta back off of my views of which PG’s fit and don’t fit. This team lacks talent. I’m thinking maybe Phil should add as much talent as possible before he worries about fit. That said..I’m ok with Lawson, Jennings, Bledsoe or Dragic. Jennings kinda reminds me of a young AI..the kid’s fearless. Not the best shooter, but he has tons of heart and he is becoming a better shooter and distributor. I like his ability to attack the defense off of closeouts. Lawson shoots better, but I’m beginning to wonder just how coachable he is. He obviously didn’t respect Shaw enough. Phil has just what he wanted- options this offseason. Legitimate options..not just cap room. Which is something he didn’t have when he took the job. I think part of the problem is he is Phil Jackson- The 11 Ring Zen Master, and everyone expects a person who has his resume to instantly turn the team around. Even I did. Looking back at the trades, low risk signings, and all the options he has now- I think he’s doing OK. His next moves better be good though. I like Monroe, but this team is better with Melo at the 4. The team needs a post presence who can rebound and pass the ball, and that’s why Monroe is on the board. He does fill needs up front- not all but some- so that’s why I’m ok with Monroe as a Knick. I think Phil knows what he wants and it’s gonna come down to Fish’s coaching as the deciding factor on how much success the team will have. He had a free season to learn, now it’s his turn to show and prove.

  16. He does need a strong assistant, and I really wish Thibs could humble himself enough to come on board as lead assistant in place of Rambis or Cleamons. That would be a great addition to the staff. Someone who could really teach defense and be another vet for Fish have at his side until he’s in his own space , so to speak, as a coach.

  17. WS/48 of .091, TS 522 last year (498 career)

    Jennings’ WS/48 was a career best .136 last year. And he was the main force in detroit’s turnaround last winter. He was shaving a very solid year before injury. He has improved his overall game a lot and he’s young. (The injury may erase all of that, but if he picks up where he left off the Knicks could do far far worse)

  18. Honestly, the best thing to do is to work out a pick swap with the 6ers.

    I believe they prefer Mudiay anyway, so they’ll swap picks with us, so that we can get Russell.

    Then we can send TH2 to Detroit and they can give Hinkie another asset in Dinwiddie. The Sixers could even absorb Jennings if they wanted to, no? Maybe get a future pick out of that.

  19. That’s true about Watson, thought I think he’ll command more than 2.5.

    But will he be a starter on that team? And Phil could give him a player option on the second year of the contract. Of course, he’s 30 so he may be just looking to cash in and take the best offer so you may be right.

    Hell, even a Calderon, Green, Melo, Monroe, WCS would be a great, great team to start next year

    I’d prefer to use Calderon off the bench at both the 1 and 2 positions. I’d like Phil to build a culture of strong defense. Green is a top defender at his position and one analytics paper showed Watson to be an elite defender. Plus Green and Watson career 3FG% are 42% and 38.3% respectively.

  20. Agreed, Donnie, he’s not so bad, and there are worse options. However, giving up on our dream 2-way FA’s like Green and DeMarre… I don’t think its advisable.

    Don’t forget, we may end up with Russell/Mudiay.

    And I respect the hell out of Watson, so I’m cool with him, and he’s made $2M this year.

  21. Monroe can be had as a free agent, so that’s #4 for #7/Jennings. Throw in picks, and we’re cool.

  22. WCS as our #4?
    i know i been saying Zinger 2015, but i’d be ecstatic w/ WCS.
    #4+calderon for 7+monroe+jennings? no thanks. eat calderon’s contract, take WCS before he gets nabbed (just like last time we had #7) and sign monroe outright.

  23. I think it’s far more likely we’re talking THJ for a 2nd round pick this year or Spencer Dinwiddie. I’d be 1000% fine with that since it would clear up about $1MM or so in cap space and net us a player superior to THJ.

    In my dreams it would be #8 + Jennings for THJ but I highly doubt that will happen. Would anyone do #8+Jennings for THJ + protected 2018 1st? Then draft WCS + Winslow. Sign Danny Green or Carroll. Forget about Monroe. Start Jennings, Winslow, Green/Carroll, Melo, WCS. If Jennings is bad then you get that cap space back in 2016.

  24. that’s a lofty dream that i’d totally dig. WCS+Winslow (who i’m down on but heck if we’re getting him for a bag of chips hell yea) + whoever we sign (hopefully carroll) and that’s a pretty nasty defensive team and let melo carry the load as a stretch 4 and a few salaries that will clear in 2016. probs enough to sneak us in as a the 8.

  25. I highly doubt Detroit would give up #8 just to get rid of Jennings. Especially considering that they didn’t have a first rounder last year. Maybe you could get them to trade their 2016 first rounder but I doubt it.

  26. Hardaway for nothing would be a win. . .so any 2nd round pick Detroit wants to give us would be great.

  27. if pjax could pull off that fantasy trade, i think we’d have to put him in the early running for exec of the year. and then we’d all have to admit he’s a lotta less crazy than we all thought.

  28. i think more reasonable for DET would be #8+Jennings for THJ + a protected 2018 1st. Not sure how you sell that to your fans though.

  29. @9 – Re: Jackson saving basketball…

    This is backed up by his interview with Mike&Mike this morning. He talked about how it’s nonsense about the 3-ball. He had Steve Kerr and James Paxton and Trent Tucker all shooting 3’s. Translating what he said on the air, he wants ball movement and passing. He doesn’t want ISO ball, wing players standing in corner waiting to shoot a 3-pt shot and big men who’s only job is to set picks and roll to the hoop.

  30. Hardaway for a $50 Ikea gift card would be a bad trade. Have you ever been to Ikea? It’s a dope place and Hardaway is a terrible basketball player.

  31. Great article by Howard Beck today on Phil Jackson.

    This was the most unbiased article about the Knicks I’ve read in months.

    I love every aspect of what Phil is trying to do and am willing to wait until after the draft and FA period to make a judgement.

  32. @37 … shh, we’re trying to convince DET fans this is a good thing. don’t blow it for us.

  33. I’d put the odds of Jackson trading for Jennings at less than 1%. Don’t get me wrong, he showed some signs of improvement last year before he got hurt. But IMO he doesn’t have the personality or game type to fit into what Jackson is trying to build. I also can’t see him taking a chance on a player coming off an injury like that unless he was perfect in every other way.

  34. Good article on Phil. If he’s reading this, Cory Joseph is pretty good on defense

  35. The following trade will probably never happen, but I want to point out that that it works per the trade machine if you do it before July 1st: Bargnani and Hardaway for Jennings and Dinwiddie. The only problem with this is that the Knicks then don’t get the benefit of Bargnani’s salary coming off the books on July 1. They will have Jenning’s salary instead.

  36. even if it gets us a 1st this year?

    That’s not happening.

    Basically we would be trading Hardaway (who I want to trade also) for a 1 year rental of Jennings (who I don’t expect will fit either as a player or personality long term) to get some kind of mediocre player or pick. I’d just as soon skip past the 1 year rental of Jennings and try to move Hardaway somewhere we can get just the pick or player and keep the cap space. About the only way I could see it making sense is if Jennings played well enough to then be traded and we could get an asset we could actually use. Why bother? Just keep the cap space and fill it with a player that will fit and that is not coming off surgery.

  37. i think more reasonable for DET would be #8+Jennings for THJ + a protected 2018 1st.

    Why are people thinking that Detroit wants to trade out of this draft? And give away their best player at the same time? How is that good for them in any way at all?

    I understand if they have interest in moving up in this years draft (trade Jennings and draft Mudiay). But trading their pick to dump a guy with only 1 year and $8 mil left (who is only 25 and was their best player last year) seems like some wasted speculating on Knick fans’ parts.

  38. Myles Turner’s stats have me drooling:

    I’m with Mike on this – WCS is my pick, low-risk high-reward, but if we can trade down and get a pick next year in that trade, I’d be happy to do it and take Turner this year.

    And I also agree that Winslow is also low-risk high-reward; I just think that WCS has more potential. Either would be good … but a trade down to get a 2016 draft pick back and then pick Turner would be good, too.

  39. I still think Kristaps has possibly the most potential and is the best fit with Melo, AND there’s a good chance he’s there at 4.

    He’s a weak rebounder, yes, but that is one of the things that Melo actually does well. And you can get a Tristan Thompson to put next to Kristaps who will gobble up rebounds.

    Kristaps give you a great 3 ball and great rim protection, with tons of room to grow.

    Of course, I’d be happy if Russell fell as well, but I’m totally on board with Kristaps at 4.

  40. After Calderon has terrified and confused visiting PGs with his smothering D we’ll send Jennings in with fresh legs to rip their hearts out, yes? Not something I want to see, pretty much ever. He is a very small man. He has never been a good defender. His achilles injury will decrease his lateral quickness. He’s never shot as well or assisted as much as Calderon. The other benefits of any trade for him would have to be very large and very certain IMO to make up for the hugely negative impact of stockpiling a surplus of porous and fragile PGs. Though the idea of getting anything in return for THJ is enticing, he can’t do any harm if he’s kept on the bench.

  41. I understand if they have interest in moving up in this years draft (trade Jennings and draft Mudiay). But trading their pick to dump a guy with only 1 year and $8 mil left (who is only 25 and was their best player last year) seems like some wasted speculating on Knick fans’ parts.

    He comes from an achilles tendon injury, and they are thinking Reggie Jackson is their starting PG next season.

    But yeah, they should wait till next years deadline, Jenning can only increase his trade value by then.

  42. Kristaps give you a great 3 ball and great rim protection, with tons of room to grow

    The Zinger got a tick above 2 blocks per 40. Myles Turner blocked 4.8 shots per 40 (granted, in an inferior league). Kristaps has some potential to give you a great 3 ball and some shot blocking, but he’s not a guy you’re going to have guarding the middle of the paint.

  43. If it wasn’t for the achilles, Jennings would be fine, because he’s pretty good, still has a bit of upside, and his contract is going to be very moveable if he’s averagish. But that injury is a big deal.

  44. Does anyone know if we can simply use Timmy and jr’s trade exception for jennings? For some reason I get the feeling you have to fill your cap before you use exceptions. If that was the case then perhaps this gets done later in July, once we square away our roster? Provided he passes a physical from our crack squad of doctors and they think he will likely fully recover and be ready for the start of the season I would be inclined to do that deal.

    I would probably even do calderon/timbo for jennings straight up if we think he will be ready for training camp. That would shave the final year of calderon (2/15) off the books and if Jennings (1/8.3) sucks we just don’t sign him next year and that opens up roughly 7.4 mil in space. Not a big Jennings guy at all but after watching Calderon (and I do think he had a unusually bad year) does anyone think he is better than Jennings?

  45. Dinwiddie is fucking terrible.

    Even worse than THJr.

    If they want THJ, a future 2nd rounder will be enough.

  46. Cap Question… When the Salary Cap goes up in 2016, does Melo’s Contract remain the same?
    If so , isn’t his contract at $25 Mil a tremendous bargain?
    Wouldn’t it be wise to sign Monroe, Green Etc at today’s max contracts when in a year from now, they will be considered below market value?

  47. Cap Question… When the Salary Cap goes up in 2016, does Melo’s Contract remain the same?
    If so , isn’t his contract at $25 Mil a tremendous bargain?

    Melo’s contract continues to rise, but yes, it will rise based on the old cap, so it will not go up based on the new cap. As to whether 32-year-old Melo making $25 million, 33 year old Melo making $26 million and then 34 year old Melo making $28 million dollars will be bargains, I would think not, but it is fair to say that there likely will be worse contracts out there after the cap explodes.

    Wouldn’t it be wise to sign Monroe, Green Etc at today’s max contracts when in a year from now, they will be considered below market value?

    Sure.

  48. From what I read, Jimmy Butlers contract might look like 5 for 190.. Which seems insane. At that rate, even as his skills regress, he should be considered as an asset at 25-26 mil.

  49. I mean, Bledsoe/Lyles for Porzingis makes too much sense if the chips fall that way. And if we could also dump Calderon in the process, I’d be all smiles.

  50. From what I read, Jimmy Butlers contract might look like 5 for 190.

    He theoretically can sign a deal like that if he waits three years. But that’s not saying a whole lot, no? “If he waits three years, he could sign a 5 year/$190 million deal.” Because who knows what will happen in those three years?

  51. @55

    OK so I just read Larry Coon’s FAQ and my interpretation of what I read was that they don’t necessarily vanish but rather after 170 days of the trade (length of season) they decrease at a rate of 1/170 of the exception. So it appears Jr/shump trade was on 1/5/15. So starting on 6/24/15 Jr Smith trade exception will decrease at that rate or roughly 35,190$ per day. Shumps will decrease by roughly 15,393$/day if my math is right. Maybe that july 1 date was for the Travis Outlaw exception that we evidently have/had?

    http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm check out 26

  52. Trade exceptions only exist when you are over the cap. Once you are under the cap, which the Knicks will be on July 1st, they will lose their trade exceptions.

  53. More specifically, the trade exceptions can still exist, but they take up cap room equal to their value. So you have a choice – JR Smith’s $6 million trade exception or $6 million worth of cap space. Obviously, you’re picking the latter every time, since there’s nothing the former can do for you that the latter can’t do. So the team voluntarily renounces the exception.

  54. That seems a bit fishy to me, as they’re really seeming to cite his injured foot from 2014. A year-old foot injury that didn’t slow him down at all last year? Seems hard to believe.

    Feels like someone putting out injury rumors to cause him to drop.

    (could it be us?)

    One good thing I feel comfortable saying about Phil, even in his old grumpy man drug-addled dementia – the predraft process is perfect for him. No one plays mind games like the Zen Master.

    Overall I’m pretty impressed by what the FO has done pre-draft. Bring everyone in. “Leak” that you’re taking a small — so hey Sac or Denver, if you want Mudiay you better trade with us or Philly because otherwise he’s coming here. Have Charley Rosen “leak” that you’re taking a big. Throw Isola a bone and say you’re trading down for Trey Lyles. Or staying at 4 and taking Lyles. Or taking Kaminsky at 4. Or trading for Eric Bledsoe. Or maybe working out Porzingis this morning.

    Definitely different than the past.

  55. The NY hating media must think the Knicks are taking Willie Cauley Stein because he just went from an elite defender & athlete showing a good mid range shot in workouts to a kid with sickle cell & a pin in his foot.

  56. I sat with an NBA “scout/analyst” prior to the Jennings draft. They were drooling all over him. Talked about how fast Jennings was, that opposing point guards had to back the ball up the court so that Jennings wouldn’t steal it. Basically he was a can’t miss guy.

    True his steals in the NBA are pretty good. But the guy has a career TS% just under 50%.

    Compared to Calderon, he’s an upgrade, but that’s not saying much is it?

  57. According to 538, % Russell is a bust is a whooping 40.9%! That’s nearly double anyone in the same area.

    He also has the highest star % (15.2)

    Justise Winslow is the safest pick (8.4% star, 51.1% starter, 22.9% bust) that the Knicks will likely have a swipe at.

  58. According to 538, % Russell is a bust is a whooping 40.9%! That’s nearly double anyone in the same area.

    He also has the highest star % (15.2)

    Yeah, that didn’t make a whole lot of sense. The guy is the most likely to be a star but also most likely to be a bust?

  59. @Cronin-

    Extreme high risk/high reward player. Boom or bust. Whichever analogy floats your boat.

  60. Honestly, I didn’t like their methodology in that study. Once you start mixing subjective and objective measurements, it becomes very sketchy to me.

  61. we’ve actually been pretty ‘safe’ with our picks ever since the weis debacle esp when we’re in the lottery… gallinari, frye, sweetney, hill were all pretty much consensus type of picks around where we were drafting… they were all 20 or above with a stable body of work in college or international…

  62. Are we forgetting that Calderon is a really good shooter? Yes the contract is bigger than what we would want, but with a decent squad, he does keep teams honest , no?? An open Calderon can be a nightmare. Imagine if he was on the Cavs in the finals…

  63. @69

    Right and not saying it’s a great trade or that it’s even a good idea but if you are getting a slightly better/younger player on a shorter deal wouldn’t that be a win? Maybe we can shake em for a pick too? Also as far as pg’s go from a talent perspective we really haven’t had a player of Jennings caliber in a long long time…maybe since Marc Jackson? I suppose perhaps marbury had as much talent as Jennings does

  64. This draft is starting to shape up like the ’84 draft.

    1 – Olajuwon (HoF) (Towns)
    2 – Bowie (Bust) (Okafor)
    3 – Jordan (God) (Russell)
    4 – Perkins (Stretch 4/5, had a good career)….we’re getting Porzingis.

  65. I’m surprised by all the Jennings love here.

    He’s got a career TS% of 49.8%

    Last year was his peak at TS% of 52.2%

    His DPM last year was -2.5 and is -1.1 career wise.

    He’s coming off a high risk surgery.

    The entire upside of his current reputation among stats guys is from a flurry of about 20 games or so last year before he got hurt. IMO, this is the kind of player a smart team should be trying to get rid of. He’s way more athletic, dynamic, and explosive on offense than Calderon, but I’d rather have Calderon and hope he’s healthy.

  66. Calderon’s biggest problem last year was a distinct lack of shooters for him to pass to. ‘Melo got hurt, Smith shot himself out of the rotation, Shump regressed, and we never had any inside presence. After all that, what did we expect for him to do? He’s not a primary scorer, and he’s not exactly stifling on defense. I’d be willing to give him another shot, especially if/when we land Monroe.

  67. Good for the WNBA. Surprising to see them actually try to stick up for themselves.

  68. I did a legend today that might interest you folks, it’s about the complicated way that Wilt Chamberlain was drafted, namely that the Philadelphia Warriors wanted to draft him while he was still in high school. Here it is.

  69. Right and not saying it’s a great trade or that it’s even a good idea but if you are getting a slightly better/younger player on a shorter deal wouldn’t that be a win? Maybe we can shake em for a pick too? Also as far as pg’s go from a talent perspective we really haven’t had a player of Jennings caliber in a long long time…maybe since Marc Jackson? I suppose perhaps marbury had as much talent as Jennings does

    Comparison of Jackson & Jennings at the same age & Calderon now.

    Jackson was a better passer & more efficient, but scored less. Calderon’s TS% dwarfs both players.

    So Jennings is like Mark Jackson, except he shoots more and is less efficient. We’ve had plenty of players like this, unfortunately. Honestly it’s been our defining attribute for a decade now.

    http://bkref.com/tiny/vDuZU

  70. Yeah that Bledsoe thing feels like it might have legs.

    if that happened then by my quick math we would be losing a net $10MM cap space on the Bledsoe (13.5MM) for #4 (~3.4MM) part, then losing about $1.2MM net for the #13 (1.7MM minus the ~500K roster spot cap hold). That would leave us with something in the $16-17MM range for cap space — enough for a single mini-max (like Monroe, although hopefully not him).

    Assuming we draft Trey Lyles our lineup would look like Calderon, Galloway, Bledsoe, THJ, Melo, Lyles + Monroe?

    Blech.

  71. @91 – Frank

    Won’t be all bad then if that happens and WCS’s sickle issue DOES scare teams.

  72. Galloway has a decent chance of becoming an average to above average two way guard in the triangle.

    As a rookie primary ball handler with near 20% usage, his numbers look ok.

    He represents a pretty good value and should allow the Knicks to focus its resources elsewhere. I think Jennings’ playmaking is a bit unnecessary in the current offense, considering the high downside risk in most other areas.

    I’d rather wait to move or package TH for another asset if possible.

    Khris Middleton is my favorite FA. It might take a Max to snag him from the Bucks, but it’d be worth it.

    He had the 8th best adjusted defensive +/- last year, and ranked elite on close outs, and contests.

    He can guard 3 positions, has power forward length with shooting guard lateral agility.

    He was one of the deadliest spot-up shooters in the league last year, but excelled in transition, off screens, isolations and post-ups.

    As a secondary option in an offense that features his full complement of skills, I think he can be the next best thing to Butler/Leonard.

    Pair him with Danny Green and a force like WCS, and you’ve got the makings of a defense that can win playoff games.

    A healthy Melo with spot-up shooting, and a secondary player that compliments both he and the system, and the Knicks will at least have much of the core of a team that can make deep playoff runs.

  73. Yeah that Bledsoe thing feels like it might have legs.

    if that happened then by my quick math we would be losing a net $10MM cap space on the Bledsoe (13.5MM) for #4 (~3.4MM) part, then losing about $1.2MM net for the #13 (1.7MM minus the ~500K roster spot cap hold). That would leave us with something in the $16-17MM range for cap space — enough for a single mini-max (like Monroe, although hopefully not him).

    Assuming we draft Trey Lyles our lineup would look like Calderon, Galloway, Bledsoe, THJ, Melo, Lyles + Monroe?

    Blech.

    Blech indeed. I have enough faith in Jackson, though, that he won’t do that deal. It’s just realistic enough to believe, though.

  74. I like Middleton, as well, but the Bucks just made a trade specifically to clear out room so that they can either sign Middleton or match any offer, including a max offer. He’s going nowhere.

  75. Hey welcome back!
    Agree about Middleton but I don’t think he’s going anywhere unfortunately.

    But I agree – draft a big who can defend, sign one (or 2) of the good 2 way wings, and see your defense improve.

  76. Rumors coming hot and heavy now — http://www.cbssports.com/nba/writer/ken-berger/25221981/draft-buzz-debate-within-knicks-on-whether-to-trade-4th-pick

    here’s a possibility i like in the article:

    One such deal to move back a few spots and choose among those players, a rival executive said, could involve Denver, which owns the seventh pick. As part of the deal, the Nuggets could relinquish their right to swap 2016 first-rounders with New York.

    although maybe Berger forgot that Toronto has our pick now. I can’t imagine the Nuggets trading their 2016 pick to us since they’re likely to be bad again.

  77. although maybe Berger forgot that Toronto has our pick now. I can’t imagine the Nuggets trading their 2016 pick to us since they’re likely to be bad again.

    Yeah, I don’t get that aspect of it all. Why in the world would Denver trade a 2016 lottery pick to move up three spots?

  78. Hey Frank, back at you. Missed y’all for some reason.

    oh today is a blessed day

  79. I just hope whatever we do isn’t stupid for a change.

    Let’s just hope Philly takes Porzingis. If they take him, then the trade talk doesn’t matter, as Jackson will just take Russell.

  80. Let’s just hope Philly takes Porzingis. If they take him, then the trade talk doesn’t matter, as Jackson will just take Russell.

    I really think any notion that the Sixers might not take Russell is pure posturing from Hinkie. He fits their roster perfectly and is probably the best talent at that spot anyway (I’d probably take him second, personally). If it happens we should all be ecstatic, but I highly, highly doubt D’angelo Russell is a Knick until 2029 after a few knee surgeries or something.

  81. Rumors coming hot and heavy now — http://www.cbssports.com/nba/writer/ken-berger/25221981/draft-buzz-debate-within-knicks-on-whether-to-trade-4th-pick

    here’s a possibility i like in the article:

    One such deal to move back a few spots and choose among those players, a rival executive said, could involve Denver, which owns the seventh pick. As part of the deal, the Nuggets could relinquish their right to swap 2016 first-rounders with New York

    .

    I’d rather this come true:

    Kings coach George Karl is desperate to find a starting point guard, and pressure is coming from owner Vivek Ranadive to make the playoffs this season. A deal sending the Kings’ No. 6 pick to Denver for Lawson would give the Nuggets the sixth and seventh picks to include in discussions with the Knicks for the fourth pick — or, simply jumpstart their ever-evolving youth movement with two top-10 players in a talented draft. Nik Stauskas, the Kings’ first-round pick in 2014, continues to be available in trade talks, sources say.

    If theKnicks could get the #6 and #7 picks would be awesome. They could probably get Winslow or WCS at 6 and then trade back with the # 7 pick. Maybe use the # 7 pick for Bledsoe and the #13 pick.

  82. 6 + 7 for 4. Sign me up.

    Me, as well, but then that’d be giving up Lawson to move up three picks? Is that wise of Denver?

  83. Denver doesn’t want Lawson around anymore. It would be nice to have the other guys be the stupid short sighted team for once

  84. These Cousins to Lakers rumors along with the Magic being involved in a 3-team trade is just weird.

  85. Kings coach George Karl is desperate to find a starting point guard, and pressure is coming from owner Vivek Ranadive to make the playoffs this season. A deal sending the Kings’ No. 6 pick to Denver for Lawson would give the Nuggets the sixth and seventh picks to include in discussions with the Knicks for the fourth pick — or, simply jumpstart their ever-evolving youth movement with two top-10 players in a talented draft. Nik Stauskas, the Kings’ first-round pick in 2014, continues to be available in trade talks, sources say.

    This would be incredible — seeing as everyone projected at 6 or 7 is also projected at 4 in various mocks, you can get a hell of a lot of combinations here that might turn out great. WCS/Winslow combo would be like an elite defense starter kit, Mudiay could drop to 6 too and if we have to give up, say, Zinger, for them then why the hell not?

    Which is of course why it won’t happen — who does Denver want so badly that they need to sacrifice two top-1o picks to get them at 4?

  86. http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles-lakers/post/_/id/41607/kupchak-looks-as-though-lakers-will-use-no-2-pick

    “Let’s just say there was a team that had the fifth or sixth or seventh pick, and they wanted to go to No. 2,” Kupchak told SiriusXM NBA Radio. “In that area of the draft, just to move up two or three or four slots, normally, it’s hard to do. And the price that that team would pay would be high, because they’ve targeted a player that they really want. Obviously the other team would know that, and they would have to pay for that.”

    This Orl/Sac/LAL trade may have been in the works for a while. I have seen that the knicks might get Cousins and the 6th pick, if that’s true then LAL stole again.

  87. Apparently the Knicks had a private workout for Porzingis today (so says Isola). Phil the Jedi Master trying to tantalize teams that want to trade up for him?

  88. If the Knicks parlayed the 4 pick into 6 & 7 and didn’t go on to trade either pick, I’d be so hyped.

  89. The only way the Knicks get the 6 and 7 from the Nuggets would be if they’ve fallen fatally in love with Porzingis…or Mudiay?

    Let’s go one step further. The Knicks get the 6 and 7, then they trade the 7 to Boston for 16, 28, and 33? That’d give the Knicks the 6, 16, 28, and 33rd picks. Silly fantasy, of course. PJ would take Trey Lyles with the #7!

  90. Knicks get: #6, #16, #28

    Nuggets get: #4, #33

    Celtics get: #7

    Kings get: Lawson, TH2

  91. Trading the #7 pick for Boston picks this year is not good value. If lottery picks a traded(w/o players involved) it usually cost a lottery swap and another 1st rd pick. Boston is out of the lottery plus the 28th pick is basically a high 2nd rd pick whose contract is guranteed.

    Boston would need to include an unprotected 2016 1st to move up to 7th, imo. Moving up 10 spots in the draft should be crazy expensive.

    Has that happened in the NBA?

  92. “t would be nice to have the other guys be the stupid short sighted team for once”

    From your mouth to God’s ears, pal.

  93. So the recent mock draft is saying that we will draft KP for the fourth pick. Will he be more of a Gasol or Nowitzki vs Darko or Bargani?
    Hmm too risky for me.

  94. I am watching the 2003 NBA draft last night.
    It is worthy to note that Knicks fans are chanting “Michael Sweetney”
    -It shows that sometimes our preference are wrong. Sweetney is a sure bet given his college credentials still a big bust.
    The other thing is Dwyane Wade…..
    Critics admire his nba ready body and his ability to penetrate BUT he cannot shoot. Any Mudiay comparison?? And Mudiay is 3 years younger. Why cant we just draft this guy. We do not have a pg and nba is now a pg leauge.
    Also the funnyn thing is critics are saying why the heat drafted wade because they have Eddie Jones. Hope Knicks will not opt for a veteran (Bledsoe) over the potential of the player in 4th pick.
    Thoughts?

  95. I like the Kings, LAL, ORL pretend deal. Not one of those teams managed to win 30 games last season.

  96. The fact that “Mudinay to Knicks” has not been uttered once leads me to believe that he will be the pick.

  97. re: dwyane wade – ppl said the same things about randy foye coming out…

    and if anyone has learned anything from past drafts.. it’s that the highest risks are 1)skinny pf/c types that hang out in 3p land and 1a)heavy big men..

  98. Best news of the day from the NY Post:

    Jackson said Carmelo Anthony’s rehab from knee surgery continue “to go well’’ and acknowledged Anthony could play more at the 4 this season, pending the roster

  99. It seems like the way the game is officiated has completely changed the way players are judged. You can basically drive through someone in todays NBA and if the defender is moving laterally you will probably get the block call. Remember how Mark Jackson, when he played on IND, would back down Ward and Childs? They finally changed the rule and put a clock on him. LBJ did the same thing in the finals and CLE lived on it. Harden is more of a put a shoulder into you player. Thats all about strength. Then you have to make free throws and three pointers (which makes it odd that so many are so freakin’ terrible at the latter skill). I think, in a different era, Okafor is the number one pick. NBA right now is kind of like the NFL with certain discrete skills. Those skills don’t seem to include overall ability. Some guys are paid to dribble and pass but most aren’t. Winslow may be the better Duke product for today’s league. If Cauley-Stein can make free throws, open Jumpers and block shots, he may be more valuable than the slick pedigree PG. Creativity seems on the run. Of course there’s Curry, CP3, etc. but you only need one of them. Everyone else is out there to run the floor and finish in whatever way. And even some of those creative forces are just playing bully ball, often.

  100. Chad Ford just tweeted out Porzingis’s reported measurements — 7’1.25″ without shoes, 7’6″ wingspan, 230 lbs. that is one big dude.

    I’ll be content with WCS, Winslow, Porzingis, Mudiay. Don’t know what to think if we trade down. Obviously take Russell or Okafor if one of them falls.

    Just don’t f*ck it up.

  101. That is huge. Kahwi has a 7’3″ wingspan at 6’6″, which is as crazy as it gets, I think.

  102. There is absolutely no way that Porzingis will have a floor lower than, say, Not exactly the same kind of player, but similar in floor-ceiling at time of draftDanilo Gallinari. My only concern is injury, but I think his height gives him value retention. If okafor and Russell are gone, take him.

  103. Umm..when the draft process started, Porzingis was 6’11” 220. Has he really grown to 7’2″? If so..with his ability to move, he can be a really really good PF in this league. Even a C if he gains enough weight without losing his athleticism. I’m just saying, I’m intrigued by him. I still prefer WCS over him, but I have him right there with Mudiay as a top prospect for the Knicks. Above Russell. I’m just not sold on Russell. I don’t see enough upside. He has just as much of a chance to be a James Harden type as he does to be a Evan Turner (not that he’s not a good player- he just hasn’t lived up to that lofty draft status). Then again, he’s 19 so a lot can change. I still think Russell and Okafor are closer to their ceilings than any other likely top 4 pick. Back to Porzingis. 7’2″? Wow. I wouldn’t be mad if Phil drafted him. By all accounts he has a great work ethic, and a pretty good hoop IQ. I dunno..maybe he does actually become a good player.

  104. The other thing is Dwyane Wade…..
    Critics admire his nba ready body and his ability to penetrate BUT he cannot shoot. Any Mudiay comparison?? And Mudiay is 3 years younger. Why cant we just draft this guy. We do not have a pg and nba is now a pg leauge.

    Mudiay’s not being able to shoot is much closer to Rajon Rondo’s not being able to shoot than Dwyane Wade’s not being able to shoot. Wade can hit free throws even in college. Mudiay, not so much.

  105. I want to know Zingis standing reach but his height wan wingspan is almost like Ajinca(7’0.75 with a 7’8.75 wingspan) but he only weighed 207 lbs. At least Zingis has a head start on Ajinca when it comes to the weight department.

  106. So what you’re saying is… Zinger is Wilt 2.0?

    JP of course…. But one could dream

  107. I’m surprised anyone here wants a piece of the zinger..a big man that shoots mid Rangers doesnt rebound or play defense. Didn’t we just see that movie? Plus if we were to draft him with the intent to keep him btwn zinger, melo and Calderon honestly what free agents do you pursue that could give us any resemblance of respectable defense and rebounding?

  108. So what you’re saying is… Zinger is Wilt 2.0?

    Only if the Knicks pass him up.

    Being a Knicks fan:

    Okafor = Eddy Curry,
    WCS = Jared Jeffries,
    Kristaps = Bargs,
    Mudiay = Worse shooting Tyreke Evans,
    Whoever we pass up = future GOAT,
    etc.

  109. From what I’ve read I could see him fitting in with squads like Boston, Bulls, Pacers, Miami, maybe even philly just because they don’t have an identity.

    But we need real defensive players. I am really sick of the constant lay up lines, wide open 3s and career nights for mediocre players against us.

    Imo Melo can be passable at defense but you surely don’t want him to be the best defender on the team which might actually have been the case last year. You already know Calderon is physically limited. I’d say it’s unwise to think early, thjr, shved, Galloway maybe acy or whoever comes back from last years team will make strides into elite/above average defenders.

    It would be nice to pick up 2 way players in fa but how many difference makers can we actually expect?This is why I’d go wcs over okafor and probably Russell. Who cares what the perception of when he should be picked is? If u can trade down and get an asset and wcs that’s awesome but realistically this guy has lateral quickness and end to end speed that’s comparable to Anthony Davis and Dwight Howard how do you justify passing that up for a big man that shoots 3s? Get a pg, sg or sf to do that. Hell, melo will shoot most of the 3s anyway

  110. I just love the absolute bullshit weight they’re listing the Zinger at. It’s practically, “Just pick a number and we’ll go with that.” I mean, don’t get me wrong, the NBA (and other leagues, like Tony Gwynn being listed at 220 pounds for years when the guy was inching towards 300 pounds) have been doing this forever, but it’s still funny.

  111. I love Karl in general, but man, does he love to argue with his stars. This, though, is just a bridge too far. Arguing with Melo is one thing, actively trying to get your team to dump their 24-year-old star player? I’d honestly just fire Karl. It’s a dick thing to do to your owner. “Hey, thanks for hiring me, but oh yeah, I can’t coach your star player. Sorry!”

    All year, I’ve been saying that there was no way he’d be dealt, and that’s because their owner is trying to market the team and he desperately doesn’t want to lose his star player now. I was confident in that, but that’s before their coach decided to turn on said star. It’s just mind-boggling. Why the fuck hire a coach who doesn’t want to coach your star player?

  112. Honestly, what FA is going to want to go play for Sac with Karl there. It was hard enough as is. I really think that they will make the trade for Lawson once Denver ponies up an asset or two more

  113. Okafor = Eddy Curry,
    WCS = Jared Jeffries,
    Kristaps = Bargs,
    Mudiay = Worse shooting Tyreke Evans,

    Mudiay = Mardy Collins,
    Russell = Moochie Norris
    Winslow = Shandon Amderson
    Kaminsky = Michael Doleac
    Townes = Jerome James
    Hezonja = Dermarr Johnson
    Johnson = Lee Nailon
    Lyles = Othella Harrington

  114. I once sort of talked myself into Dermarr Johnson. That’s how sad of a Knick fan I once was. My only excuse is that we were so close to a time when the Knicks were still good that it was easier to think that the team had some hope. It was only year 4 of Dolan, so I didn’t know yet that he was the devil incarnate.

  115. I guess for me, it all comes down to how much faith to have in Phil’s talent appraisal skills. If HE thinks Zinger is the real deal and drafts him, what does that mean? I like that he had him in for a private workout. He can actually compare him to Bargs, he coached Pau Gasol for years. He knowa the difference between Shawn Bradley and Dirk Nowitski.

    But the real question is, which guy in our wheelhouse will develop the most? All of these guys are raw right now in one way or another: Russell, Winslow, Mudiay, Johnson, Turner, Zinger, Kaminsky, Hezonja. The only guys who are sure-fire NBA short rotation players right now, without improvement, are Okafor, Towns and WCS.

    Bargnani didn’t develop at all, and actually may have regressed. IMHO, it is all between the ears for him. He certainly has more physical tools than most, but he’s just dumb, dumb, dumb….as that last second 3 vs. Milwaukee indicates.

    OTOH, both Gasol brothers developed, Marc even more than Pau. Marc was considered a joke when traded for his brother, but look at him now. Dirk developed. KG developed. Durant developed. Carroll developed. Gobert is developing. Hibbert developed. Vucevic and JV are developing.

    But Vesely is not developing. Biyombo is not developing. Bennett is not developing. Ed Davis is not deveolping.

    It is not a perfect science. But a guy with a 7’6″ wingspan who can dunk, hit 3’s, run the floor and sounds smart as hell and comes from a b-ball family is a good starting point for development.

  116. I guess for me, it all comes down to how much faith to have in Phil’s talent appraisal skills. If HE thinks Zinger is the real deal and drafts him, what does that mean?

    I have no idea. I mean, if Phil passes on him, does that mean anything? I really don’t know. There are so many fine choices to draft, I don’t think a guy getting enamored with any one of them would disturb me either way. Well, unless they pick Lyles at #4, of course.

  117. I agree, the situation in Sacramento is mindboggling. I half expect a trade like Cousins and Stauskas for Rondo and Nowitzki, which would be great for the Mavericks, and make George Karl happy; but the Mavericks will probably never trade Nowitski, especially given his relatively reasonable salary. But something like this trade with another team looks like what Sacramento wants.

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