Knicks Draft 2015 Round Table: Part 3

The KnickerBlogger staff has decided to spend the 8 days prior to the draft discussing the upcoming event. Each day will feature a different question that we will attempt to answer. Feel free to join us in the comment section!

Predict the top 3 picks

Kurylo: Towns, Russell, Okafor. I think the Lakers pass on Okafor. He’s no Shaq defensively, and Russell has the higher ceiling. But I don’t see Okafor dropping to 4. Philly takes the BPA, which will make things interesting for the Knicks at #4.

Silverman: Towns, Russell, Porzingis. I agree with Mikey, but given Philly’s sudden Embiid-sized hole in the middle, I think Hinkie rolls the dice on the International 7-1 Man of Mystery. And yes, you’re perfectly within your rights to giggle till you turn beet red about the rumors that Kristaps might not make it to the States till 2016 or even 2017, but if he’s more Dirk than Bargs–and the CBA stipulates that all Euro power forward/center-types can only be one of the two–he’d make a dynamite frontcourt partner for Noel.

Gibberman: Towns, Okafor and not D’Angelo Russell for the Sixers. Russell does not fit the profile of how Hinkie has drafted since he’s taken over the team. He drafts raw, athletic with huge upside. I’m guessing he goes with Mudiay, Porzingis or Hezonja.

Fisher-Cohen: Towns, Okafor, Porzingis. LA hasn’t done anything over the last couple years to suggest they care to gamble or get creative in their process. They’ll pick the guy who seems like the surest thing, and Okafor is that guy. Hinkie is the opposite of that. He comes from the Morey school, where “smart risk” is the key to success. Porzingis has possibly the highest ceiling the draft, and that’s what Hinkie will focus on.

Topaz: Towns, Okafor, Russell: The Sixers seem to be the real mystery here, and I won’t even try to guess what they’re thinking behind mad genius Sam “Dexter’s Laboratory” Hinkie. But the front office clearly A) cares about analytics/offensive efficiency and B) didn’t like a very inefficient and poor-shooting floor general in Michael Carter-Williams. Russell may not have the biggest upside in the draft, but he certainly has tremendous potential, and pairing him with their two bigs makes all kind of sense.

Cronin: Towns, Okafor, Russell. I don’t think the Lakers are thrilled with Okafor, but I don’t think they’d be willing to pass on him and see him become a star. Russell over Porzingis is a close call. I could be absolutely wrong, but I think that’s likely where they currently stand, even if rumors say otherwise (and oh boy would I love to believe those rumors!)

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Mike Kurylo

Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

80 thoughts to “Knicks Draft 2015 Round Table: Part 3”

  1. What an interesting draft. It seems like anyone but Towns might still be available at number 4.

  2. I don’t think it makes any sense to trade away the #4 pick unless we get a top-10 pick in this draft plus another valuable asset (a bonafide NBA starter or a high #1 pick in a future draft)

    One of the following players is gonna be available in the top-10 after the big 3:

    Mudiay, Zinger, WCS, Winslow, Hezonja, johnson, Turner

    All very solid prospects.

    After that, you have to really be optimistic re: guys like Kaminsky, Lyles, Grant, Looney, Booker or take a low-risk, low reward guy like Harrell or Dakari or a high-risk, high reward guy like Payne or Oubre.

    I hope we don’t trade down just for the sake of stockpiling picks, not with the clock ticking on Melo.

  3. I think Hinkie throws a curve ball and takes Mudiay. I think he’s an even better fit there than Russell.

    Then we pick between Russell and Zinger. I have to say, Zinger would be a great fit with Melo.

  4. Just finished reading the extensive NY Times interview with Jackson and Steve Mills. Here are the words/phrases I would not use to describe Phil:

    Articulate
    Coherent
    Insightful
    Confidence-inspiring

    I know we have to wait to see what he does this summer, but the man just does not impress me at all.

  5. That’s a little harsh. He does seem a bit like a doddering old guy now, but I think he’s going to set a good tone for an organization that is beyond ridiculous.
    I have zero faith that he will create a championship contender during his time here, but all I want is a decently run organization at this point, one which literally doesn’t gross me out with every move. He will tudor people, hold onto picks, be frugal, and insist on good attitude, intelligence, and hustle. In other words change the rotten culture that exists. Donnie couldn’t do that – he’s a smart exec but not that kind of larger than life guy. Idk we’ll see I suppose…

  6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i89E4DyhVU0

    A lot of flaws here with WCS. Very slow release – won’t be able to get away with that in the NBA. His moves facing the basket are almost literally laughable. That high dribble will lead to plenty of steals, if he doesn’t just dribble the ball off his own foot.

    But he’s still my #2 choice. He’s a phenomenal defender. He’s an elite athlete, even at the pro level. He’s improved tremendously in the last six years since he started playing bball seriously. There is 0 reason to believe he won’t at least be a solid NBA player, and he has the potential to be a star role player. In other words, Tony Allen is more than a role player – he’s a star role player, because he’s so adept at that role. Steve Novak is a role player, because he’s got a defined role, and is good at that role, but not so good that he changes the game for the opposition. WCS will change the game for the opposition.

    I mean, the Zinger could turn out to be a star. So could Mudiay. But we can’t afford a mistake, and despite what 538 says, I think WCS is the closest thing to a sure thing after Towns…and maybe Okafor, but if we can get Monroe in free agency, why even worry about whether Okafor might drop to us?

  7. I’m officially sold on WCS. I just watched film of him shooting, and it wasn’t the fact he was knocking down deep J’s with ease that impressed me. It was the form on his jumper. Wow. He’s gout Allan Houston-esque form. For a big man that is incredible. Which means he’ll have no problem at the next level knocking down open shots and he will be great in the triangle. If his range is true, then that is another plus and I don’t understand how he is not being considered in the top 3. He’s got great movement for a 7 footer and he can guard multiple positions on the floor which helps our PnR defense, so I wouldn’t be upset at all if he were drafted #4. But he’s being looked at between 6-9 so if Phil can move down, get an extra asset and still draft WCS- I think he will have pulled off highway robbery. I see Monroe low post, WCS high post and Melo set up everywhere else. My only question about WCS is, how well can he pass? If he can pass at nearly Monroe’s level, I see a fluid offense this coming season. So..WCS is my final answer, I swear lol. Can Phil nab a Monroe and Danny Green and still have decent cap room next offseason?

  8. RE possible trade down. Okay, let’s assume that the top 3 picks go as expected (Towns, Oakafor, Russell) and the Knicks are not really enamored with any of the next tier of guys. Boston calls and offers all of their picks this year (16, 28, 33, 48) AND New Jersey’s #1 next year (a possible lottery pick) for the #4.

    Do you bite? The Knicks would have to wait until #16 this year, but I think that trade would qualify as restocking the cupboard.

    I don’t know. I don’t really want to wait until #16, and who knows where NJ’s #1 next year ends up being.

  9. Totes, I think everyone will have decent cap room next season. The cap is set to shoot up a bunch, some $22 million, I think I read.

  10. There is 0 reason to believe he won’t at least be a solid NBA player, and he has the potential to be a star role player. In other words, Tony Allen is more than a role player – he’s a star role player, because he’s so adept at that role. Steve Novak is a role player, because he’s got a defined role

    “Star Role Player”? Really? Was Ben Wallace a star role player? How about Tyson Chandler? Bill Russell? What if Wallace or Chandler could knock down 3s? What if they could dive OR pop in the PnR? What if they had a post-up game? WCS is not just an athletic 7ft, he’s obviously very skilled as is plainly visible in his shooting and dribbling. After all, Trill was a QB, wide receiver, and tennis player – not some one-dimensional sequoia. Because he took up the game late, his offensive potential has not yet been tapped.

  11. @ 10 – I don’t think that’s enough, more quantity over quality especially not knowing where that BK falls. Would it shock anyone to see BK as the 7/8th seed in the East next year? That would be 16-17th pick in ’16. Not great.

  12. i would want smart from Boston + picks which would end negotiations from their end. But I am not giving up the 4th pick for lottery tickets.

  13. njnick, I agree. I think waiting to #16 is too long. I’d rather take Mudiay, WCS, or a flyer on Porzingis (esp. since they could probably easily trade him soon thereafter to someone else). I like Winslow, too, but not at #4, and I think that the Knicks can get a free agent wing (Green? Carroll?). A Mudiay or WCS talent is more intriguing.

  14. I just really cannot see how we draft anyone but WCS. People may not remember but Kentucky was pulling Towns out for defensive purposes late in games during the tournament. It is quite possible WCS ends up a better pro than Towns. If he develops offensively we could be looking at a dwight howard, draymond green hybrid type player.

  15. I think WCS is gonna be an elite big man in this league. Not only because he’s young and skilled. But because the big man game is changing in the NBA. What’s gonna be required of him are things he seemingly does well. And if he can knock down open J’s then that makes him even more important in today’s NBA. And I wouldn’t worry too much about his slow release because I remember an all time great Center having a slow release. He wore #33 for the Knicks. I think 10 ppg 10 rpg and 2 blocks are attainable in WCS’ rookie season. If he can throw in a steal or so and a couple assists per game, that would make him a big deal in this league. A starting Center that can move and defend like he does putting up those kinda numbers? How is that NOT an all star center in this league? I’m not saying WCS has the look of an all time great, but in today’s NBA, his skillset is a much desired commodity and whichever team has that has a great piece. I think that’s what execs see in Towns. Town’s is better on offense than WCS so his skillset got put on display more. Honestly, I don’t know that there’s too much a difference between WCS and Towns. Towns may be more advanced on offense, but WCS’ ability to knock down open shots and defensive ability makes up for that gap between the 2 players. I don’t even think Phil should even consider Russell if he’s there at 4 with WCS’ presence. It’s hard to find a big man in this league that u can leave on the floor. VERY HARD. WCS and Towns are those kinda bigs.

  16. It’s possible that Okafor gets in better shape, learns to shoot free throws, and becomes Mark Gasol with a devastatingly efficient post game. It’s possible that Winslow becomes an elite wing defender who can slash to the rim and shoot 3s. It’s possible Porzingis becomes a more athletic, better defensive Dirk Nowitzki. Russell might be a better passing Manu Ginobli. etc, etc.

    That’s why we could draft someone besides WCS. It’s possible he never develops much more on offense, his rebounding turns out to be sub-par, and he winds up as a one trick pony (it’s a nice trick, but still), more of an athlete than a basketball player.

  17. Nope DRed lol..you’re not gonna change my mind. I’m sold on WCS lol. Seriously though, I do think Okafor is a game changer on offense because if you have a dominant post player, it opens up so much more on offense. I will say this though: Okafor scares me. He has just as much potential to be an Eddy Curry as he as to be a Marc Gasol. He’s still young though. My only question with Okafor is: does he WANT to get after it defensively? While I prefer WCS at this point, I wouldn’t be disappointed if Okafor falls and Phil drafts him. Okafor means no Monroe and Phil can move Melo around and build around those 2. The downside is Phil’s gonna hafta find a shot blocker/rebounder at 4 to slot between Melo and Okafor. I don’t know how easy that is gonna be. On the other hand, drafting WCS and signing Monroe potentially takes care of a lot of defensive and rebounding woes. Now..both options pretty much sticks Melo at the SF spot- a position I don’t really care to see him play full time- but they are both good scenarios. As long as Fish can coach well enough to mask the perimeter D issues. Whoever starts in the backcourt with Calderon(assuming he stays) is gonna hafta be a stout defender. Or better than Shved or THJ defensively at the very least. That’s where Danny Green comes in. But if Duncan comes back, there’s no way San Antonio lets him go. That’s gonna be where Phil has to make a great move- in the backcourt. I think he has options in the frontcourt that I trust him to sort out and have it not be a net negative. But the way things look like they are gonna fall, Phil has got to put some work in rebuilding the backcourt.

  18. Out of these 6 draft prospects: Towns, Okafor, Russell, Mudiay, Porzingis and Stein – which ones are going to be:

    Perennial All-Stars
    Solid starters
    20 minute a game backups
    Complete busts

    The answer is: we have no idea, we being Knickerblogger posters, front office guys, Chad Ford, etc. That’s what makes this draft so nerve wracking, I think there’s a good chance one of those guys does become a perennial All-Star and one is a bust, but have no idea which one.

  19. Towns
    Okafor
    Russell
    Muddiay
    Porzingas
    Cauley-Stein
    Winslow

    I really wish I had seen our 4th pick play more. Makes me all kinds of nervous.

  20. The Jackson interview was interesting. To me, he was clear in what he was saying. The one thing that worried me was when he said they weren’t necessarily looking for the biggest names. They were going to draft for their needs. That could mean just taking a less good player to get a big man, or, hopefully, that he doesn’t want the next Stephon Marburt.

  21. Agreed on WCS being instant impact. Forget what numbers he puts up his rookie year, he is a game changer in the defensive paint from presence alone. Who else available to us has that?

  22. Assuming Towns is gone, I hope we take either Cauley-Stein, Winslow, or Mudiay in that order of preference.

  23. People forget that Tyson was a lot like Towns coming out in H.S and was compared to Rasheed Wallace because of his ability to shoot.

    People are going gaga over some practice shooting just like they did with the Zinger but at least he had a little history of shooting.

  24. Sheed had an unstoppable post game back then..and he was long and athletic and played both ends well. Sheed should have been no less than Tim Duncan, but he fell in love with the 3 at the pro level and never realized his potential. But he still became a very good player. I don’t think Towns is anywhere near Sheed at that age. Or WCS. But..as far as WCS’ shooting drills go..it just showed me that he can knock down open J’s- and he’s gonna get a lot of em. So, I see him as a perfect fit up front as it relates to the Knicks.

  25. Anything other than WCS and we are blundering.

    I see no reason think any of the other possibilities is more likely to become a two way star than WCS (some less so) and we desperately need a defensive big man. Match made in heaven.

  26. I dont think Sheed and Towns are all that similar. Towns is a natural 5 and should have a terrific low post game. Wallace’s low post game was a lot of fall aways and pick & pops. Sheed was a great player for a few years but I think Towns will be special due to his post up game. Of course, I could be wrong about Towns but I rate him as an elite prospect.

    With that being said, Wallace was a terrific defender on the low post due to his length and on the perimeter with agility/quickness. Defensively Wallace is Towns’ ceiling. He may get there but the odds are stacked against him.

  27. WCS might actually be a lot closer to a young Sheed defensively. Maybe even a carbon copy. They look very similar defensively. Biggest difference is Sheed was a lanky 220 lb PF. Sheed was never as heavy as WCS or Towns. On defense alone, WCS should be considered an elite prospect. Remember how we were all saying “boy I wish Tyson could knock down a jumper or 2”? Well, I think that is WCS’ floor. Or close to it. For a good stretch of his Knicks career, Tyson was flat out dominant on the boards. It may take WCS a couple of seasons to rebound consistently at that level. Remember it took Tyson a few seasons too. So..I really do believe Tyson with a jumper is WCS’ floor. I would be disappointed if Phil doesn’t get him. Okafor or Russell are good consolation prizes- as is Mudiay. But I think the best pick for this roster is WCS. If WCS/Okafor/Russell/Mudiay are all there at 4, neither will be a bad pick. But WCS is by far the better pick considering how hard it is to find a Center with WCS’ skillset. Okafor is a rarity too..but his skillset is not as valued in today’s game. He can have his way with most C’s in the league on offense for sure- so he makes for a compelling argument on who to pick. Classic BPA vs fit when considering him and WCS. But WCS is a helluva player too. Just not as polished offensively right now as Okafor. And Okafor, IMO is closer to his ceiling than WCS. Just like Russell is closer to his ceiling than Mudiay. Okafor’s really young though, so it wouldn’t surprise me if he changes his body type and becomes more athletic. But still, considering his current skillset and athleticism, he’s closer to his ceiling than Towns or WCS. He averaged 20 and 8 in a league that offered few real challenges at the center position. How many centers are gonna be a problem for him at the next level? Not many. So, he could theoretically put up the same numbers as a rookie- if his team gives him the ball.

  28. As a matter of fact, as good as Okafor was in college- I don’t think he was quite as good as Boogie Cousins. Cousins hit the boards harder and moved better. To this day, I still don’t understand why teams waited til 5 to draft him. He and Wall should’ve gone 1-2. That said, Cousins would be a good measuring stick for Okafor in his rookie year. And my mistake on Okafor’s numbers. He was more like 18 and 8 right? I think that if Duke had relied on him more, he was effective enough and skilled enough to put up 22 a night. But Coach K never builds around 1 guy so Okafor may have been under-utilized. One thing’s for sure though- we will see the best of Okafor in the pros. Always happens with Coach K’s players. We never see what they can really do until they become pros. For better or worse.

  29. @30 — you mentioned one of my biggest concerns about Okafor — he put up numbers in a league with few good centers. In the tournament, he really struggled against even mediocre guys his size. I think he is going to have trouble scoring against NBA big guys. He can’t jump at all. Does anyone else think it’s a red flag no one knows his no step or max vertical? What is he hiding? Watch highlights of him playing. He seldom gets more than a foot off the ground.

  30. Yea johnno, that does concern me. But in his defense, “TIMMAY!!” has never been very athletic but his footwork and fundamentals have always been impeccable. So Okafor has a chance to be effective. Now..I don’t see any of Duncan in Okafor mainly because Duncan has always been incredible defensively. In my eyes, Okafor does have some really solid strengths. Unfortunately his red flags are a little bright too.

  31. Now that I think about it..guys like Duncan and Dream all played other sports that led to each player having great footwork. Why is no one correlating WCS having played tennis to his ability to move on a bball court. Don’t you hafta have quick reactions and good footwork to play tennis? Keep in mind that- especially with Monroe in view- no one is really expecting 20 and 10 out of WCS. But defensively- he’s gonna have the impact that few in the NBA can have. He has the ability to cover for Monroe (who’s not terrible defensively at all) and Melo. Monroe is gifted in the post on offense, so it’s not like WCS isn’t worth the pick, especially if he can knock down those jumpers in a game.

  32. People forget that Tyson was a lot like Towns coming out in H.S and was compared to Rasheed Wallace because of his ability to shoot.

    People are going gaga over some practice shooting just like they did with the Zinger but at least he had a little history of shooting.

    Wow I messed up that post.

    Anyway, I am referring to how people are going gaga over WCS practice film while he is shooting unguarded in a gym. I’m sure if we look at a lot of practices we would get to see a lot of non shooting bigs hit 3 after 3, step back after step back, and some making shots with their left hand.

    I don’t know what coach would hide such ability if Stein was capable of doing all that. At least there would be glimpse in games where he put on a shooting display but I do not remember 1 in 3 years.

    I guess it is possible that WCS was this hidden gym that blooms into a star but I doubt it.

  33. How many centers are gonna be a problem for him at the next level? Not many. So, he could theoretically put up the same numbers as a rookie- if his team gives him the ball.

    What makes you think so? In addition to help and team defense from far better athletes, on any given night he’ll be trying to score against: Rudy Gobert, Anthony Davis, Serge Ibaka, DeAndre Jordan, Alex Len, Andrew Bogut, Tim Duncan, Roy Hibbert, Nerlens Noel, Andre Drummond, Marc Gasol, Draymond Green, Paul Milsap, DeMarcus Cousins, Tyson Chandler, Joakim Noah, Dwight Howard… a clearly tougher scoring challenge. Maybe he’ll meet that challenge, but the idea that he will beat these guys as easily as his college opponents seems pretty optimistic.
    I’m similarly skeptical of Cauley-Stein having the same defensive effectiveness that he had in college. I hope he does, but it seems optimistic. I’ll be happy if we get him and he turns out to be a merely solid, active, high IQ defender. Any offense he adds is gravy.

  34. As I recall Shump shot great from three during his workouts and that didn’t really translate to actual games. What I do like about WCS’s workout shooting is that is makes me believe his huge jump in free throw % is sustainable and probably even improvable- if he can get up to around 75% it’d really improve his chances of being a real plus on the offensive end. The thing about playing the five is you don’t really need a ton of basketball skills to be effective- neither Chandler nor Jordan or even Dwight Howard have much in the way of shooting/passing/ball-handling skill but are all very effective based mostly on their athleticism. WCS is the most athletic 7-footer to come out since Howard in terms of speed and agility- he has a chance to be another KG on the defensive end and I think he can do enough on the offensive glass, in transition, and in the pnr to at least hold his own offensively. If it wasn’t for his rebounding numbers I’d have absolutely no problem taking him over Okafor even though he’s two years older. In fact I’d still be tempted to take him over Okafor if Okafor does slip down to four (though you have to think you could do better by trading the pick if Okafor is still available than by passing him up for WCS.)

  35. So..I really do believe Tyson with a jumper is WCS’ floor.

    Come on, Totes.

    I know we desperately need to hit a home run, but Tyson is a DPOY, all defensive team several times and the all time leader in eFG%.

    If we are putting this type of expectation on WCS, soon we will be very disappointed.

  36. No Zinger please. Now we’re hearing he may not come to the NBA until after 2015? That will help a lot right now. If Russell is available they should take him so we can see above average point guard play right away in all likelihood.

  37. @36 — when you put together a list like that, it makes you realize what we are asking of 19 year old kids. Every night he’s going to be guarded by someone who is bigger, stronger and better than practically anyone he ever played against in college. That is a pretty tall order (literally and figuratively).

  38. I’m pro zinger but he can’t come till next season…. WCS all the way.
    And… It’s not that he’s hitting the shots in the open gym that impress me, it’s how much he has improved his shot in the short time period. That alleviates my worries about him not being a gym rat.

  39. what we are asking of 19 year old kids

    I agree. It’s mind boggling to me. And then there are all the off court pitfalls as well. At 19 I would have handled those with the same deft touch that Dennis Rodman handles politics. It’s such a ridiculously elite group of individuals who have all that it takes to achieve sustained success at that age.

  40. I see a little Josh Smith in WCS. Great that he’s killing practice. I used to do 180°s and rock a babys by myself in practice. Could never do it in game though. Lol. That said I wouldn’t be upset if they took him at 4. His defense looks that great. (btw even his shot looks better than Mudiay’s)

    I think Stanley Johnson is the dark horse. His biggest weakness, finishing at the rim, should improve given his strength, quickness, soft touch, footwork, work ethic and IQ. I just don’t see many real weaknesses. Excellent physical specimen. Seems like a sharp kid. He projects like a legit 2-way player at the 2,3 and even 4. He’s a tick above Winslow imho.

    I would gladly take Stanley Johnson + an under-30 starter for the #4 pick.

  41. I seem to be in the severe minority here, but I think that when the dust settles on this draft Knick fans will kick themselves if they let Mudiay get away. I started out tepid in him, but have come around. The NBA has become a PG dominated league. The Knicks haven’t had a decent one, let a lone a great one, in over 20 years. The #4 pick has produced a lot of elite PGs, more than any other draft position.

    Mudiay will probably be pretty bad next year, and maybe for the next few (see Exum, Dante), but I think he’s more likely to develop into a franchise player than Okafor, Russell, Winslow, etc… If he drops to Sac or Den I think they will be the big winners of the draft.

  42. Thats an awful trade (Re Bledsoe). Opportunity cost has to be considered – Bledsoe’s salary v the 4th pick has to be a ~10M difference.

  43. The report also said the deal was contingent on Okafor not falling to number four

  44. The rumored Bledsoe/#13 pick for the #4 pick really isn’t an awful deal. It’s not a good deal and I wouldn’t do it, but it’s not an awful deal. One thing I’d like about it is that Bledsoe is not a Triangle-style point, so maybe there would be some hope of Melo at the 4, Monroe at the 5 and an entirely new style of play.

  45. Im more afraid… terrified in fact.. that we are foolishly targeting trey lyles… this becomes essentially a bledsoe for #4 in that case..

    This will turn out badly if consummated.. I dont think its enough value on the surface either… bledsoe is essentially avg for his position…

  46. Bledsoe’s salary next year will be 13M.

    Not sure if we will have money enough for Monroe.

    BTW, if next season we manage to start the season with Bledsoe, Melo and Monroe as our core, I guess we could start being prepared for more 4 or 5 five years of mediocrity.

  47. @44
    Mudiay is a great ball handler, great passer. He’s spent a lot of time with the ball. Hard worker. And that makes it more baffling that his shot is broken. There’s probably some deep mechanical flaw that’s going to take a lot of ironing just to get it to average. I like prospects that have to fine tune their skills at the next level, not ones that have to basically create them.

    Here’s my personal list:

    Towns
    Russell
    Okafor
    Stanley Johnson
    Winslow
    WCS
    Mudiay
    Hezonja
    Myles Turner
    Porzingis

  48. I see WCS as a young healthy jakim Noah with the potential for better offensive game. I’d take at #4 all day long.

  49. [the rumored Bledsoe trade] isn’t an awful deal. It’s not a good deal

    That sounds so much like all of Jackson’s deals so far, the rumor could be true. It’s depressing. A number thirteen pick just doesn’t feel like enough.

  50. If we can shed Calderon’s salary (which I think we’d need to add salary in that trade, right?), then I like the Bledsoe deal. I think he’s ready to blow up. He’s young and explosive and actually plays defense. No more opposing point guards setting individual records against us all the time. Hand him the keys to his own team and watch him go to the almost elite level.

  51. If we can shed Calderon’s salary (which I think we’d need to add salary in that trade, right?), then I like the Bledsoe deal.

    I suspect that if the deal does go through, it would be only officially completed after July 1st, when the Knicks would suddenly be able to accept his salary without any problem.

    Bledsoe’s salary next year will be 13M.

    Not sure if we will have money enough for Monroe.

    I believe the drop-off, salary-wise, from #4 to #13 would free enough cap space to still sign Monroe.

    BTW, if next season we manage to start the season with Bledsoe, Melo and Monroe as our core, I guess we could start being prepared for more 4 or 5 five years of mediocrity.

    That’s basically where I am, as well. Mudiay could be as good if not better than Bledsoe, you just have to wait a year or two. But since they gave a mega max deal to a 30 year old, they might not want to wait that long. Sigh.

  52. With the 13th pick in the draft, you’re probably looking at players like Sam Dekker, Devin Booker, Frank Kaminsky, Bobby Portis, Montrezl Harrell and Kevon Looney. Maybe you get lucky and Myles Turner falls that far. Trey Lyles and Stanley Johnson are probably off the board. Eric Bledsoe at $13M and a player like Sam Dekker seems like kind of a disappointing haul for a whole season of tanking.

  53. Fwiw, Lyles seems like a solid player. And he’s 19. If they took back Calderon and added a Morris twin you could defend that deal.

  54. With the 13th pick in the draft, you’re probably looking at players like Sam Dekker, Devin Booker, Frank Kaminsky, Bobby Portis, Montrezl Harrell and Kevon Looney. Maybe you get lucky and Myles Turner falls that far. Trey Lyles and Stanley Johnson are probably off the board. Eric Bledsoe at $13M and a player like Sam Dekker seems like kind of a disappointing haul for a whole season of tanking.

    It seems that the writing is on the wall with Trey Lyles if they make that Phoenix trade. There’s been some bluster, and Phil has talked the whole “big butt” talk.

    Phoenix owns Cleveland’s pick next year. It’ll probably be in the 25-20 range, but it’s something. Perhaps Phil can get that too, just to soften the blow of trading down this year?

  55. I would rather have Russell or WCS or Zinger ( no chance Towns is there) than make that deal, but IF they do it, which they might have to because they have CARMELO ANTHONY, and we are in a win now mode (as freakin usual), it gives us an already proven/high upside in my opinion point guard to help us win sooner than waiting for a Mudiay. I also don’t think we would trade down for more picks to re-stock the shelves because we have CARMELO ANTHONY who wouldn’t stand for that. Really wish we could trade him and start over.

  56. Personally, I’ll be rather pissed if they trade the pick for anything less than another, albeit lower, lottery pick this year and another pick next year that’s likely to be in the high lottery.

    Not that the Knicks will actually do this, but we shouldn’t be making any moves with Melo in mind. Ideally we trade him at some point once he gets tired of losing so much, but even if we don’t we shouldn’t be making any sort of move to be in “win now” mode. We’re nowhere near “win now,” more like “win at some point in the distant future…maybe” mode.

    All Melo does is help the team stay relevant in the media and to the casual fan. Let him do that while the rest of the team goes about a full rebuild without worrying about his “window.”

    If we can acquire a good lottery pick for next year (like, say, get our own back), then great. But even if we don’t, we need to just take our medicine and gut out another terrible year even though we’ll have no draft pick to show for it. Stop mortgaging the future just so we can be a 1st round knock-out and get out of the debt we’ve put ourselves in.

  57. If they took back Calderon and added a Morris twin you could defend that deal.

    But they won’t and they won’t, so you can’t.

  58. Mills on the NYTimes interview:

    “So we’re diligent in trying to be open to thinking about whether there’s a combination of a good player plus a move down that we think rounds out our roster and puts us in a better position to build this team and move it forward. At the same time, we understand that we’re going to get a really good player that can be a part of where we’re going long term at No. 4.”

    So at least they understand the concept. If they do a shitty trade then it’s because
    they thought they won it. I’d rather they keep it.

  59. So do you guys think we’re actually going to get a good player out of this pick? C’mon! K-n-i-c-k-s.

  60. Hope against Hope. I realized I enjoy the offseason way more than the actual season these last few years. And hey, at least we’re learning how to NOT run a sports franchise.

  61. Hypothetically, would you rather the knicks make a trade for Bledsoe and the #13 pick or make a trade for Favors and the #12 pick?

  62. i would do favors + #12 in a heartbeat… there is really no comparing him and bledsoe… favors is younger and comfortably inside the top 10 pf’s and probably in the top 5 pf’s in the nba…

  63. There is no rumored deal for Bledsoe. It was something Chad Ford (I think) said in a radio interview as a hypothetical deal the Knicks might consider. He did not mean it to be something that anyone was actually discussing. Based on Phil’s comments in the Times interview, I don’t think he’ll trade out of the top ten.

  64. If the Knicks just draft by who they can sign, then the two players they’ve been linked to the most have been Monroe and Carroll, so they’ll probably draft Mudiay. That’s actually a decent offseason.

  65. In other news, Boston (28) and LA (27) reportedly want to dump their late 1st round picks to avoid paying the guaranteed contracts.

    Might Phil try to get one of those? Would either just flat out sell the pick for cash?

    Khris Middleton rumored to be resigning with the Bucks quickly. No surprise there.

  66. The back end of this draft isn’t looking that great. It’s more just the top fifteen are awesomely good this year. Also, I don’t know if adding a guaranteed contract makes sense when Jackson put so much work into clearing out cap space (trading Prigs got them just $800,000!).

  67. But just cuz it’s layer and I’ve had a few, what would Knicks be like if we had gotten curry and gallo and stat on the floor together plus signed Melo like we should have instead of trading… Curry, gallo, Melo, stat, mozzy bear as our starting five with coach Pringles running the track meet? That would’ve been great.

  68. I don’t think Gallo ever really had a future on the Knicks alongside Melo. The problem with the Melo deal was not so much losing Gallo, but it was losing Gallo in that specific deal, when he should have been instead saved for a later deal for another player, like Paul (Paul, after all, was eventually dealt for Eric Gordon and Gallo and Gordon were roughly comparable players, perceived value-wise).

  69. If the Knicks were to pick up a late first rounder, there might be some interesting players available.

    Cliff Alexander is the prototypical big-booty power forward that Phil Jackson desires. He was a highly touted freshman but had a disappointing season at Kansas; San Antonio is reportedly interested in him.

    Deion Wright is a four-year college senior who is a big PG at 6’5″. Has the ideal size for a triangle PG but is the type of player that likes to have the ball in his hands a lot. If the Knicks feel like they can mold his game to the triangle he might be a decent value pick late in the first round.

    Norman Powell is a defense-oriented shooting guard who is very limited on the offensive end but plays a high-IQ brand of defense. Good man and help defender.

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