News & Blogs
Knicks capture 2025 NBA Cup title with dramatic 124-113 win over Spurs – SNY
Knicks 124, Spurs 113: Mitch, Clarkson, and Kolek earn their bonuses in NBA Cup win – Posting & Toasting
Knicks conquer Cup, laud poise under ‘pressure’ – ESPN
Knicks’ bench unit steps up to help secure NBA Cup clinching victory – SNY
Knicks’ Josh Hart Would Buy New Watch With NBA Cup Prize Money, ‘I Got Robbed in Sept’ – BleacherReport
Game Thread: Knicks vs. Spurs, Dec. 16, 2025 – Posting & Toasting
Where to watch Knicks vs. Spurs: NBA.Cup live stream, TV channel, odds – CBS Sports
EXTENDED: SPURS vs KNICKS | EMIRATES NBA CUP 🏆 | FULL GAME HIGHLIGHTS | December 16, 2025 – NBA
The Run.down Knicks vs Spurs NBA Cup Postgame Show – The Strickland
Knicks Nightcap Dec 17th – Knick of Time
Knicks vs Spurs – NBA CUP FINAL Recap & Reaction | POSTGAME SHOW | Knicks Film School – Knicks Film School
The Putback with Ian Begley: Knicks win NBA Cup with Iman Shumpert – Begley Putback
Knicks vs Spurs NBA Cup Finals Preview | Key Matchups, Brunson, Wembanyama & X-Factors – Knicks Fan TV
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143 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2025.12.17)”
Extending the bench out really makes a difference in fourth quarters. Besides the injuries which result from all of the added movement in-game (guarding the three and the rim each possession), the players are absolutely gassed at the end of games. Brown having a few extra pieces to plug-in won the game. The Knicks on a podium, any podium is pretty awesome.
I hate billionaires funding games in the gambling capital, and yet such a fun game last night. It was great to see the Knicks overwhelm the Spurs kids in the 4th, and then the end of bench guys celebrating.
What do you do with Kolek when Deuce comes back?
those 4Q rebounding numbers seen completely fake (23-6?!!).
I love that Wemby talked about “sophisticated basketball” and then the Knicks just beat the crap out of them in the 4th quarter.
I don’t know enough about basketball to know what we did differently against Wemby last night vs Christmas last year when he looked like a totally different level of basketball player than anyone else. But he looked extremely mortal last night.
Really fun game/tournament. Definitely looks like the players care, and it did bring some extra juice into a “regular season” game, so mission accomplished NBA!
The previous two nights I was awake until 2 AM doing different things related to Rob Reiner. So I unfortunately had to go to bed at halftime last night so I could function today. But, it’s like I’ve been saying for weeks and weeks: the NBA cup title is the most important thing that has ever happened to me!
If Kolek is for real, that changes things a bit for the trade deadline. Maybe give Yabu a bit more time to see if he is truly a bust, and if not go get a 4/5 that can serve as a C backup.
Huk played only a few possessions, but damn, he was good on defense. Hope to see these guys more against Indy tomorrow (as I assume KAT and Mitch might sit, and others will play limited minutes).
The problem with the NBA Cup is the timing. We’ve now got 6 months of slog till the other “championship” is handed out and then an entire off-season before we get back to important basketball.
If Deuce and Shamet are healthy, then yes, the only thing we really need to improve this version of the roster (as opposed to tearing things up to get Giannis) is a backup big who’s better than Yabu has been so far. I’d love another big wing, too, but when the team’s at full healthy, OG, Mikal, and Josh are gonna play a lot of minutes, Shamet can guard up at small forward, and we saw last night that Brown’s comfortable playing three guards at the same time if it makes sense.
One of the beat writers, I forget which, made what sounded like informed speculation that a lot of guys are going to get the Indiana game off. If that’s true, Mikal will still play a little to maintain his streak. 100% Mitch sits and Huk plays. I wonder if that’ll be the game for the two-way guys to get some run.
Already ordered NBA Cup Champions shirts for me and my brother! I would think Mitch and KAT sit tomorrow but would be surprised if anybody else sits.
Mitch didn’t play last Christmas
If the NBA is thinking of moving next year’s final four to another city, maybe they should think about cities that don’t have an NBA team, like Pittsburgh, Kansas City or Seattle. I’m sure there are plenty of NBA fans in those cities that would have some interest.
Eh who am I kidding, get ready for the NBA Cup in Dubai.
And, to be fair, Wemby is still coming back from an injury. Just because he kicked ass against OKC doesn’t mean he is fully himself yet.
“One of the beat writers, I forget which, made what sounded like informed speculation that a lot of guys are going to get the Indiana game off. If that’s true, Mikal will still play a little to maintain his streak. 100% Mitch sits and Huk plays. I wonder if that’ll be the game for the two-way guys to get some run.”
And right here is the reason why I strongly feel that finals teams should not have a game for at least two nights after the Cup, and if one was on the schedule (as it was here for both teams, and the first game of a B2B to boot!), it should have been postponed. Instead, fans in those arenas are going to see a watered down version of a hung-over NBA team.
Well, it’s only Indiana and Washington, so whatever.
I don’t know what was more horrifying, watching Wemby go on a 10-0 tear in the third, or watching Clarkson hoist threes in the fourth. Somehow most of the latter went in! Go figure.
Great win over a gritty opponent. Spurs being this good, and this mature, at this point was not something I thought would be a thing.
And Kolek. Good for him.
I’m okay with Mitch and KAT sitting out tomorrow, because it means some run finally for you-know-who…
I ordered my shirt as soon as they sent out the email last night. It says “Knicks” and “Champions” on it, and contains no lies. I will thus wear it with pride.
Since we had about 4 different injury scares last night, I am strongly in favor of a Kolek-McCullar-Dadiet-Diawara-Huk starting lineup on Thursday. Great opportunity for Tosan and Jemison to snag those bench minutes. Maybe Yabu can crack the rotation too!
That was a very satisfying win. I do not like the Spurs being this good this fast, though.
Does this game not even have an effect if the Knicks and Spurs end the season tied (and 1-1 in their other games)?
Brian, nope.
I just watched some postgame interviews. I like Mitch Johnson. Dylan Harper sounded great as well. Wemby was a mess, crying, apparently his grandmother died so he couldn’t really talk.
That team is gonna be a problem for many years.
I wonder if Yabu being a DNP-CD was in any way related to his comments. Not that he deserves any time, but it’s pretty telling that even with KAT and Hart banged up and Mikal showing some wear and tear, he didn’t get a single minute. Maybe there’s a trade in the works and they don’t want him to get hurt?
I think Dadiet is still hurt. But I’d have no problem starting Tosan in his place. The only issue is that some of the rotation guys will have to play at least a little.
My wife wanted to order shirts for my girls and I told her it would be kinda embarrassing. I kinda equate it to an Antlantic Division champion shirt…same with the banner. But also I get feeling differently about it.
I think OG should play at least enough to not have it count against his postseason awards chances, maybe Brunson too, but no strong feelings either way.
It’s probably a total fantasy, but Denver could use some big depth and Strawther was looking like a rotation afterthought even when he was healthy. A straight Yabu-for-Strawther swap is legal and might interest both teams, but my guess is they’re still too invested in Strawther to pull the trigger.
JB winning MVP was nice. Media people count for 80% with fan voting 20%. Interesting that Wemby won the fan vote. All-tournament team still TBD.
Really enjoyed that, and have enjoyed all three years of the cup.
I understand the purpose was to generate excitement for early season games but it’s time to adjust. This event needs to be less condensed, if only so fans have time to make plans. I probably would have gone to this game if it hadn’t been set three days ago and scheduled on a Tuesday.
Based on what Silver said pregame, Vegas isn’t a lock to continue hosting the final. That’s a step in the right direction.
I didn’t know about Wemby’s grandmother. With that, I’ll forgive him for being at least a little dismissive of us in his postgame comments, where he said, “They don’t play a brand of basketball as sophisticated as the Miami Heat or the Thunder. But their physicality is top in the league, so it’s a very tough team to play against”
The physicality thing is good to hear, because that was one of the bigger fears in the KAT/Julius swap. Julius beats people the eff up on the court.
That quote was from before the game.
i know weve discussed the noncountingness of this thing ad infinitum and have kind of accepted it for what it is but i still hate that koleks career high of 14 doesnt count (its stuck at 8)
Shows what I know. The moral as always: sleep is important.
I don’t think Yabusele has played horribly. It’s just that Kolek has made a stronger case to be in the rotation. I know that Kolek is a guard and Yabusele is a big, but coaches often find ways to get their best players some playing time by adjusting their rotations and finding a way to live with being, say, smaller on the floor overall.
I think we should have a Tyler Kolek appreciation thread lol. No..he’s not a world beater right now, but with the way his career started- he deserves some love now. He finally looks comfortable enough to do exact what he showed in college. The slick passing, the sneaky good defense, the thinking 2-3 plays ahead, and the fearless shot making with the 3 ball not catching up just yet. Mike Brown’s system and faith in the bench has unearthed a gem. I don’t know if we need another ball handler come the trade deadline. Especially once Deuce and Shamet are back. Which affords Rose and co more time to be patient with a possible move during the season. It looks like the only weakness we have is the backup 4, but hopefully Yabusele picks it up soon or Diawara surpasses him
The emergence of Kolek is low key huge for us. He brings a skill the team otherwise lacks and gives us a true back up PG for Brunson.
when Brunson was being hounded at the end of the game and Brown brought him in to close out…that was a huge vote of confidence. It’s one thing to give him some regular minutes but to say “hey we need another ball handler in there to relieve the pressure” and then go with Kolek…huge move. And Kolek delivered.
It changes things. When McBride comes back, Clarkson suddenly becomes expendable (especially if Shamet eventually returns). It means we don’t have to waste assets to trade for a back up PG and could focus on another big.
Very excited for Tyler and for this team right now.
Mike Brown deserves a lot of credit for Tyler Kolek. Not for developing him or improving him, but for simply changing his mind. It was literally one month ago (Nov 17th vs the Heat) where Brunson was injured and Brown gave Kolek zero minutes. I thought that was the end of the line for him. All these years we’ve had a veritable prison at the end of the bench. Brown’s not better than Thibs but he’s different, and it’s nice to not have a doghouse anymore.
That said, it would be really nice to see Tyler go on a shooting heater. I have very little faith when he shoots a 3 right now, and was low-key shocked he hit two of them last night.
The sophisticated Miami offense is good for a 114.9 ORtg. New York’s unsophisticated offense is exactly 7 points higher than that. Which is more than the difference between Miami and the worst offense in the league.
Silver mentioned they were thinking about some storied college locations to take the games to, that could potentially be fun, but I have no idea how that would work with college season in full swing in November and December too.
The Heat were basically manipulating pace to score more points.
ORtg controls for pace, though. I think the league was genuinely befuddled by their no-screen actions, but now just learned to deal with it and their offense is cratering. The Knicks played a bunch of zone against them, and I assume most teams are doing the same.
So the awards seeking players need at least 20min, then we have roughly something like:
Kolek/McCullar
Clarkson/McCullar
Tosan/Diawara
Yabu/Diawara
Huk/Jemison
It is so obvious that early season success only means so much in the grand scheme of things. Teams need to go around the league a couple of times to generate film for opponents to use. This is especially true when there are injuries and coaching changes. In a way, the Cup is sort of an opening bell for the real meat-and-potatoes of the NBA season, especially for us. Brown has had a chance to settle on a rotation, and the players have had enough reps in his schemes to feel comfortable in their roles (other than Yabu, but at least he knows the deal…get better or sit.)
I thought the crowd got into the game because it wound up being pretty good, but at the start they definitely weren’t lively enough because I imagine there weren’t all that many Spurs/Knicks fans there
The stats for that finals game should count. At the very least they should not disappear into oblivion.
Yeah, poor Kolek had his best box score game of the season and it just disappeared into the ether.
too late theyre unfortunately already gone no way to get them back
Hot take. He will get better shooting from 3 the more minutes he plays. I think its very hard for a young player who isn’t getting minutes and taking shots in games on a regular basis to come in and hit 3’s. Maybe I’m just pumped cause WE’RE THE CUP CHAMPS BABY but I think Brown putting him in last night to close the game could be a huge confidence boost for him.
If these last two games were just ordinary regular season games, I’d be happy with the way Kolek played but still be interested in adding a PG that defends a bit and that can actually run an offense. But given that Brown trusted him in two very big higher pressure Cup games and he delivered his best, I’m OK standing pat with him as the backup PG. If he keeps getting minutes here or there he’ll be ready for the playoffs.
I loved his passing, playmaking and control of the offense from the start. It was a matter of whether he could check enough other boxes defensively and in terms of scoring efficiency to get where we need him to be. It looks like he has. There will still be ups and downs, but I’d be willing to bet he’s going to get better.
I may have misunderstood you. I thought you were suggesting that ORtg shows Miami’s offense is full of baloney.
Cool that they won the Cup. Atmosphere in Vegas left a lot to be desired.
Yeah, Kolek’s defense has been nice. He’s neve going to be a “good” defender but it seems like he’s learned that a small, unathletic guy like him has to just get in people’s grills and be an annoying pest.
This makes a lot of sense in the long run but it will be a bitter pill to swallow if a very likely win becomes a loss bc of the cup.
I’d probably play Mikal and Josh at least. Run out a small lineup of Kolek, Clarkson, Bridges, Hart, Yabusele and try to shoot ’em out the building.
I was never out on Kolek but definitely very down on him, mainly due to his lack of athleticism. I’ve said many times that his best path is the John Stockton approach…he’s gotta be borderline dirty and be willing to get his face and body banged up, especially on defense. He’s gotta use his fouls as weapons.
I can’t remember when it was, maybe in preseason, but I remember Mike Brown specifically praising him after a game by saying “that’s the level of physicality he needs to play with.” Kolek had blown up a couple of plays and drawn some charges that put his body at risk. And now he is regularly doing that stuff, playing bigger and tougher than he looks. I never worried about his shooting per se, similar to Deuce in that regard, he has enough of a college shooting pedigree to believe that it will eventually come around.
There are a lot of unheralded smallish PGs who aren’t athletic freaks making a name for themselves in the NBA via smarts, grit and relentlessness…Davion, Shead, Alvarado, TJ, etc…even our very own superstar had to learn the ropes. Glad to see him get the opportunity with a coach who isn’t a scary curmudgeon.
I do think it’s full of baloney – it was seen as complex early in the year because it’s so different than how other teams play, and it was legitimately good for their first 10-15 games, but teams have caught up with it now. So I think it was gimmicky – and its supposed complexity doesn’t make it particularly good.
Now watch them go on a run…
“Yeah, Kolek’s defense has been nice. He’s neve going to be a “good” defender but it seems like he’s learned that a small, unathletic guy like him has to just get in people’s grills and be an annoying pest.”
i think weve mentioned here before that wed be happy with kolek if he could become an annoying pest like tj mcconnell (and z-man mentioned mcconnell in his list) i think its a good comp of someone he should strive to be like mcconnell has always been one of those guys that is very hateable as an opponent but great for the team he plays on it would be great if kolek could become our hateable guy
remember how much we wanted kolek before his draft and how happy we were to draft him hes beginning to show exactly why
Not gonna lie, though… the trader in me kinda wants to sell high on Tyler Kolek.
Yabu, Tyler, Dadiet, and Indiana’s two 2nds (2027, 2028) for TJ McConnell. Who says no?
Edwards: “The Knicks won’t hang an NBA Cup banner, league sources confirm.”
I have a feeling that’s more about Dolan giving another middle finger to Silver than anything else. Hard to argue we’re too good for this when there’s an Atlantic Division banner up there.
Also kind of an F U to the players. I heard Mike Brown specifically say there would be a banner if they win in his pregame speech.
“Yabu, Tyler, Dadiet, and Indiana’s two 2nds (2027, 2028) for TJ McConnell. Who says no?”
id rather have almost 25 year old mcconnell in training in kolek than almost 34 year old actual mcconnell at this point (they are almost exactly 9 years apart in age)
and that sucks about no banner hopefully clearer heads will prevail and they will rethink that decision
The Kolek breakout is exciting, but let’s see how he fares now once the league is prepared for him.
But also he’s not THAT small — 6’2” or 6’3” I believe. And even with subpar reach, he can work on his strength and speed with the ball. If a guy like Shead can succeed, so can he.
That should be what Indiana’s thinking. We should want the guy who can swing playoff games this year.
TJ and Mitch on the bench would give us an incredible second unit.
We’d need to replace Yabu, though, and would have very little salary left to do it with.
One of the things I’ve liked about McConnell, while of course hating the hell out of him, is that he’s super-physical and pesky without really being dirty, like some players out there. It’s a very fine line, but still. I’m seeing Kolek doing more or less the same (although he likes to shove opponents off the ball, which is a little suspect).
I don’t feel terribly strongly about it but some kind of commemoration at MSG feels appropriate, and we have no claim to consistently high “banner” standards because Harry Styles has one hanging up.
I personally wouldn’t be too cool for school on this, but whatever. I’ll enjoy my shirt and hopefully we get a banner out of this season anyway.
Every good basketball team needs a super annoying small white guard who the other team hates.
Ours used to be the coach
Can’t that be Kolek?
I get what you’re saying about selling high but my thinking is Kolek has potentially solved one of our weaknesses, so why get rid of him to upgrade a position that is no longer a problem instead of focusing on another area that is still a problem/weakness.
And yes, we are all in this season but there is no reason to act like this is our ONLY shot. We can have the same team next year and it might be nice to have a guy like Kolek who is growing and has upside over a guy like McConnell who is what he is right now.
I have a theory that is completely unprovable that when a young player is improving like Kolek is, the impact on the team can be bigger than just his numbers because the other players get excited getting to witness first hand and actively participate in that young player’s growth.
I would hate that trade for a ton of reasons (no pun with Yabu’s weight intended…). But I’ll listen to what others have to say. So far a couple of reasons have been touched on.
“I don’t feel terribly strongly about it but some kind of commemoration at MSG feels appropriate, and we have no claim to consistently high “banner” standards because Harry Styles has one hanging up.”
Again, if you are gonna embarrass your team and its fans by hanging Atlantic Division banners, you should have no problem hanging this one. Just make it a simple one…the cup, the year, and the Knicks logo…no words.
Any guesses as to whether Mike Walczewski will introduce the team at the next home game as Your Emirates Cup Champion New York Knicks?
No question.
I’m sure the players don’t care but I actually think its a bit disrespectful to them and the coaches to not put up a banner. Regardless like TNFH I already ordered a shirt and will wear it with pride! It has the Jordan logo on it too its a pretty decent looking shirt.
I don’t think there’s a snowball’s chance in hell that Tyler Kolek can be as impactful as TJ McConnell this spring.
That doesn’t mean Tyler can’t help, it just means there’s currently an unbridgeable gap between the two of them because TJ is outstanding.
Even I, a huge cup enthusiast, don’t like the idea of hanging anything while we are still in the early stages of what we want to accomplish. As JB said it is something on the checklist. Celebrate it as a means to an end. But certainly hang the banner at the same time as hanging the EC or Championship banner.
That’s fine. Spike will commission a banner and hang it in his personal museum
I assume it’s money related, but an easy fix to the schedule would have been to play the final on Monday. They were in Vegas for the semis, so there was no travel involved. And then they’d get two full days before the next game. It’s kinds of ridiculous that the finalists get punished in this way.
Deeply satisfied with that win.
Wemby is a paper tiger.
I am so happy with the Mitching we all witnessed. Just vintage.
With guys like Anunoby, Bridges, and Brunson in the conversation for end of season awards, I wonder if we can get away with having those 3 plus Hart play around 25 minutes AND having Huk & Jemison as our main centers tomorrow night. I’d love to be able to sit them all in preparation to crush Embiid Friday night, but the team would probably get fined if they all sit lol
Wemby has some vulnerabilities. He doesn’t look like someone who will ever be able to hold his ground or bully folks in the paint. He also is not as fluid or explosive in his movements as, say, Kevin Durant. I see a lot of the same issues with his as I did with KP. Both guys think that they can be Durant, when that’s not the best approach for them.
Obviously he is on his way to being an all-time great, probably top 5-top 10, but he’s going to have a lot of bad games where the shot isn’t falling, he’s turning it over a lot, he gets crushed on the boards, or where he can’t really move because a shorter, stronger player with a low center of gravity is up in his grille and he tries to do too much. He really needs to work on a pet move that becomes unstoppable, like the Kareem sky hook or the Wilt/Dirk/Duncan banker.
The good news for him is that he is going to have a lot of help. Both Castle and Harper look like the real deal and there’s more draft picks and/or stars coming. He won’t have to be the GOAT to pile up chips.
Can we also talk about the Mitch resurgence?
He’s looked better the last few games. We just spilled a lot of digital ink last week talking about trading him and then he shows us why we should pause on that.
They don’t want to go against football.
Wemby was also coming off an injury to the point where he was on a 25-minute restriction, and he was also clearly broken up by his grandmother’s death. So he gets a pass from me regarding last night (where he still did damn well in his 25 minutes).
hubert is there a womens version of this t-shirt if so i dont see it:
https://store.nba.com/new-york-knicks/mens-new-york-knicks-jordan-brand-black-2025-nba-cup-champions-locker-room-t-shirt/t-25362919+p-468836639969439+z-9-1343685483?_ref=p-GALP:m-GRID:i-r0c0:po-0
“Can we also talk about the Mitch resurgence?
He’s looked better the last few games. We just spilled a lot of digital ink last week talking about trading him and then he shows us why we should pause on that.”
There are a few factors that were considered that aren’t going away re: keeping Mitch vs. trading him.
1) his injury history: Is he a good bet to be reasonably healthy in the playoffs? Especially considering that there aren’t any “reliable” rim-protecting alternatives behind him.
2) his contract situation: a) what is the risk of losing him for nothing? b) what are the risks of re-signing him?
3) his FT shooting: what are the odds of him being neutralized by hack-a-Mitch against the best teams with the best coaches?
I think most of us are in agreement that he should be kept for now unless an offer too good to be refused comes about. In other words, it’s worth the risk of losing him to injury or losing him to free agency because there are likely no better alternatives that are visible to us right now. So yes, he has looked better lately, and we should pause on that, but that’s a lot different than slamming the door shut.
“So yes, he has looked better lately, and we should pause on that, but that’s a lot different than slamming the door shut.”
If it is a good FO, which I believe we have, it never shuts the door on anything and is constantly prying so I am not sure what that means. Mitch’s performance yesterday refuted almost everything about him being a playoff liability (18 minutes zero FTA, eg). Only issue vis a vis a trade is his injury history. Everything should be done to keep him healthy for the playoffs. If he looks healthy at the trade deadline, he is among the bottom 4 on the roster that I would consider shipping out, no matter what is coming in.
If we want to flip Yabu for a real center, we could probably straight-up trade him for Nick Richards, who I think is out of the rotation in Phoenix. He’s not playing well rn, but at least he’d give us a legit replacement if Mitch were to go down. We might have to throw in a distant 2nd since Yabu has that player option.
Bernie, who are the other two besides Mitch and Brunson?
Couple of questions re: Kolek-sanity:
1. Does he stay in the rotation when Deuce is back?
2. If so, does he stay in the rotation when Deuce and Landry are both back?
On the one hand, you would assume that even a more flexible coach like Brown would favor a veteran like Clarkson if he had an open rotation spot. On the other, he’s been going to the Brunson/Kolek backcourt a decent amount, and even brought Tyler back in to close out the game when he realized Jalen needed help dealing with SA’s pressure.
all i know for sure is that its a good problem to have to have too many “trustable” players yabu notwithstanding
Bernie, who are the other two besides Mitch and Brunson?
Obviously Kolek and Clarkson. ( but might include MB and OG on the list)
I think my answer to all this is that all those guys are SGs while Kolek is a PG. So Kolek should be given minutes at PG and the rest can fight out the backup SG minutes, which should definitely belong to Deuce.
Clarkson even in his “good” game was inefficient and finished with ZERO assists in 27 minutes.
I’m hoping he goes through a second resurgence in the next couple weeks, but he’s just not a PG even if good Clarkson can masquerade there. We have too many better players for Clarkson to be looking for his own shot every play instead of using Kolek to maximize the value of OG, Mikal, KAT, Deuce, or whoever is in with the 2nd unit.
Have i ever said the NBA Cup is meaningless? Blasphemy! 😀
Things is that Mitch is in the perfect role for him – limited but impactful minutes on a playoff team. Having a 20 mpg guy like him on anything but a playoff team makes no sense at all. Having him on a playoff team that needs more than 20 mpg just to get to the playoffs or to be seeded high makes almost no sense. No, he needs to be on a playoff team that doesn’t need much from him during the season because it has a surplus of good players who can cover him.
That is a small number of teams.
So, while we shouldn’t ignore the possibility of a competitive offer this off-season, it isn’t highly likely just because the teams that can afford him – literally and figuratively, in cap space and the ability to do well without him – are very few, if any.
Of course, all it took was one with iHart, but here we have the ability to match or better any offer. That was an unusual situation. So again, I think what he can offer us is absolutely worth what it’s likely to cost…and it isn’t likely to cost much beyond where he’s currently at.
“Mitch’s performance yesterday refuted almost everything about him being a playoff liability (18 minutes zero FTA, eg).”
I don’t think it refuted anything. I was an exhibition game against a young team with a novice coach. In my book, there is literally zero transferability between this game and the playoffs.
I should also point out that Brown is employing Mitch differently, and the league hasn’t addressed it yet. Mitch is quickly kicking out most offensive rebounds he gets to the perimeter and it is leading to 3-pt shooters getting good looks. Stan Van Gundy has said repeatedly that he would foul Mitch immediately on those plays before he had the chance to pass it out. Mitch was a -14 in 16 minutes against Boston, whose only C was Neemas Queta. Which game is more telling?
One thing that I was not fully aware of until I saw it happen in the Toronto game (or was it the Boston game). I was under the impression that if you fouled him without the ball in the last 2 minutes of quarters, but that’s not true. It’s called an “away from the play” foul. There was a play where he was intentionally fouled while setting a screen, with under 2 minutes left in the quarter, yet still was sent to the line for 2 shots. So even while he’s in the game, that’s one more way that he’s limited.
More generally, I think there’s a long way to go before we can conclude anything about the efficacy of the hack-a-Mitch strategy. There are a lot of possibilities. For example, maybe more teams try it but it starts to backfire because Mitch’s FTs start going in enough to counteract it. Or maybe teams figure out better ways to keep him off the boards, or to only foul him if he gets an offensive rebound as SVG suggested. Or maybe only 2 teams figure out how to employ the strategy effectively, but those teams are ones we will face in the playoffs. The strategy is still relatively new and untested…iirc the Celtics started using it in the playoffs, and that’s literally only 30 Mitch games of data, and even less where it’s been used. And last night, the Spurs didn’t use it at all.
Couple of questions re: Kolek-sanity:
of all people to saddle someone with the albatross of sequeldom. what’s alan watching? kolek-o-vision.
it was an exhibition game…
You lost me at “exhibition”. Come on, we differ in how everyone feels about the cup, but zero transferability about winning an elimination or winning it all game means nothing for the rest of the season or the playoffs???
“You lost me at “exhibition”. Come on, we differ in how everyone feels about the cup, but zero transferability about winning an elimination or winning it all game means nothing for the rest of the season or the playoffs???”
Correct. Both generally and specifically as far as Mitch is concerned. See: Lakers 2023 and Bucks 2024.
Pretty confident I’ve never seen players cry after an exhibition game
As always, when it comes to posters around here, there is ptmilo at the top, and everyone else is fighting for an incredibly distant second place.
i wonder what the nets will get for porter jr. he’s quietly having at least as good a year as markkanen and the injury time bomb doesn’t tick nearly as loudly when it’s only 1.5 years left. detroit for example could def get a store-brand-option-to-pivot-later price from the nets versus the semi-permanent all in price they’d have to pay utah. that cam swap could end up really lucrative for them considering they already have the nuggets 32 first.
Counterpoint: it was a single elimination game against an 18-7 team in which he was matched up with one of the best centers in the NBA.
Not remotely new, it was actually a Thibs point of emphasis that Katz wrote about as early as 2022-2023, and again during the 2023-2024 Sixers series. This has been Mitch’s go-to move on offensive rebounds for a while now.
My guess is we don’t see a lot of intentional fouls on these plays because by the time the scrap for the rebound itself is over, Mitch has already gotten the ball to the perimeter.
There’s also the matter of opposing players not wanting to rack up fouls in non-hack situations, as whoever is closest to Mitch is much less likely to be as expendable as a designated hacker.
watching game recap on nba today…
yeah, no thanks on any major roster changes…
we’re heading in to a physically demanding portion of the schedule for the next few weeks, both in travel and game time…
good news is: we’ve had plenty of time to practice and work on conditioning/health issues so far this season…
time for the player performance/med staff to really earn their money…
same thing for yabu…now is the time for him to start doing his job…
gotta be honest, did not see this kolek progression happening…
of all the other important stuff going on for the team during the season – adding 2 young (ish) players (read cheap salaries with room for player growth) is pretty high up there too…especially if we want to keep both KAT and mitch on the team…
been very pleasantly surprised with KAT at the five this year, same with OG playing the four..
did not trust it at all last season, seems both players have really committed to playing their roles though…
especially KAT, holding his own as a defensive center, rebounding like a fiend…ThunderKAT…
“Pretty confident I’ve never seen players cry after an exhibition game”
His grandmother just died. Lots of shots of him on the bench during the game where he looked close to tears, and not just when the Knicks were pulling away.
It was, in fact, an exhibition game. It’s odd that anyone is arguing otherwise. There was intensity to it, but let’s not compare it to an actual playoff game. That would be really silly.
“Pretty confident I’ve never seen players cry after an exhibition game”
I suppose it’s not every day that a player’s beloved grandmother dies on the day of an exhibition game.
Not many games where players get monetary bonuses for winning, which makes it more important to players than pretty much any other game they play, even if everyone else sees it as a joke.
this is where it will be unfortunately pretty easy to point out that there are financial rewards for the all-star game but the players still have viewed the game as a joke for quite some time and have demonstrated that with their play
“It was, in fact, an exhibition game. It’s odd that anyone is arguing otherwise”
Call me odd. The current debate, which you seem deaf to, is whether a banner should be put up, or more specifically to you how many shirts to order.
“Not remotely new, it was actually a Thibs point of emphasis that Katz wrote about as early as 2022-2023, and again during the 2023-2024 Sixers series. This has been Mitch’s go-to move on offensive rebounds for a while now.”
Here’s the quote you linked to:
Mitch is at a career high by far in AST% and a career low in usage. He is averaging 9.0 ORebs per 36 (by far his career high) and yet only 5.0 FGA per 36 (by far a career low). Even the x’s and o’s guys on KFS (it was either DJ or Benji) pointed out that Mitch’s approach was different in this regard than it was under Thibs, which is why I mentioned it in the first place. Perhaps the difference is that now he’s passing the ball out even when he’s in the restricted area.
·
“Call me odd. The current debate, which you seem deaf to, is whether a banner should be put up, or more specifically to you how many shirts to order.”
No, I actually opined on the banner (I’m a yes) and the shirts (I’m a no). We are now debating whether this game has any relevance in preparation for a championship run in the playoffs. You specifically said “Mitch’s performance yesterday refuted almost everything about him being a playoff liability (18 minutes zero FTA, eg).” I said that it doesn’t because this was an exhibition game against a young team and novice coach who didn’t even employ the strategy you refer to. I said that it no more refuted it than the recent Celtics game confirmed it.
No matter how hard everyone played, it was, in fact, an exhibition game. There’s no disputing that. That doesn’t mean that it wasn’t fun, or that the guys didn’t play hard. But taking anything away beyond getting an extra look at SAS before we play them again is probably a stretch.
I don’tt understand any of this debate.
Yesterday was an NBA game that both teams wanted to win badly for pride and financial gain.
The Spurs are very good. In fact, they are one of a couple of longshots I bet to win it all before the start of the season at +4528 (and I’ don’t bet unless I think I have good value).
Beating them and the way we performed in that game matters as much as any other NBA game and probably more because some regular season games are scheduling throwouts or injury fests.
What makes the playoffs a different animal is that you keep playing the same team over and over so more adjustments are made, but BOTH teams make adjustments. It’s not like our opponents get to make adjustments and we don’t. For what it’s worth, my early reading that under Brown in game adjustments and flexibility may not actually be a strength intead of weakness. I’m happy I seem to have underrated him.
I was referring to the Knicks players. Several were teary during the cup ceremony. The point is, it matters a lot to them. It was not an exhibition game.
100%
Anyone that handles the ball a lot will get some assists. Being a PG is about running an offense. That means knowing all the plays, dribbling to the right locations, penetrating, making the correct and accurate passes, telling players where to go. It’s being a QB.
Neither Clarkson or Deuce are PGs. You can put them into that slot and they’ll get some assists, but they aren’t running an offense.
That’s why I’ve been harping on getting another PG and was hoping Brogdon had something left. Kolek is a true PG. It’s the rest of his skillset we’ve been hoping would develop. Evidence is accumulating he’s close to ready to being the backup PG.
As to Clarkson, he hit some big shots last night and deserves his flowers for not being afraid to take them and knocking a couple down. It doesn’t change much. He’s not a PG, not a particularly good baskeball player and he’s been overrated for most of his career. Shamet is the better player and Deuce is WAY better.
Ah, my bad rama. Only watched a few post-game minutes, saw Cap’s great interruption shout-out to his players, which was awesome. Turned it off after that.
This should have read
For what it’s worth, my early reading is that under Brown in game adjustments and flexibility may actually be a strength instead of weakness.
“Yesterday was an NBA game that both teams wanted to win badly for pride and financial gain.”
Sure.
“The Spurs are very good. In fact, they are one of a couple of longshots I bet to win it all before the start of the season at +4528 (and I’ don’t bet unless I think I have good value).”
Okay, agreed.
“Beating them and the way we performed in that game matters as much as any other NBA game and probably more because some regular season games are scheduling throwouts or injury fests.”
It does not. Neither would it have mattered if we had lost it. Again, we have solid evidence for this. Last year the Bucks beat the Thunder by a lot. Did it matter come playoff time? No. The year before that, the Lakers beat the Pacers by a lot. Did it matter come playoff time? No.
Whatever info we got from last night is either stuff we already knew or stuff that has little meaning. Even the Spurs team we faced is not the Spurs team we will face later on. Whatever we learned will pale in comparison with what we learn on December 31 or March 1, you know, the non-exhibition games.
So the lineup (with Mikal possibly only getting a token start) is roughly:
Brunson/Kolek
Clarkson/McCullar
Mikal/Tosan
Yabu/Diawara
Huk/Jemison
Honestly, we could probably beat this iteration of the Pacers with this rotation.
Watched the replay. That game was like a jelly donut. Neither good in theory or practice but deceptively good in the moment.
“I was referring to the Knicks players. Several were teary during the cup ceremony. The point is, it matters a lot to them.”
True.
“It was not an exhibition game.”
False.
for some odd reason my instincts tell me that yabu will perform well if he starts i dont like that this midweek cup game is causing us to load manage our next game but at the same time im glad that its indy who is pretty beatable if we lose to them because were not playing our guys i wont love it but ill be ok with it because the cup victory against the spurs was well worth it regardless of whether or not we want to deem it an exhibition game
by the way please remember that stats in play-in games at the end of the season dont count at all either i very much hate this as much as i hate that last nights stats dont count i bring it up because no one is calling those exhibition games and they definitely matter to the players
the stats should count for the cup finals and the stats should count for the play-in games who cares if some players have more than 82 regular season games? better yet i think they should be counted as playoff stats.
should we have any interest in either kuminga or mathurin seems like they both might be on the block
“by the way please remember that stats in play-in games at the end of the season dont count at all either i very much hate this as much as i hate that last nights stats dont count i bring it up because no one is calling those exhibition games and they definitely matter to the players”
They are not exhibition games because they are specifically for the purpose of advancing in the actual playoffs. The Cup final is an exhibition game because it has zero bearing on the playoffs or anything else that matters over the course of the actual season. We’re making a big deal out of it because the Knicks won. But in the last two years when we didn’t advance, did anyone even think about it beyond the fact that the game in which we were eliminated was a loss that counted in the standings? If we lost last night, would anyone be thinking that it was alarming because we couldn’t win the big one? If KAT blew out his ACL, would anyone be saying “well it sucks, but hey, at least we won the Cup!”? I sure as hell wouldn’t be.
And that’s the shitty part of that game. It shouldn’t be an exhibition game. Winning it should have a positive impact on our chances in the playoffs.
I truly wish that a larger-than-life coach would have the guts to sit all of his starters for the final game. The only guy I think would have the guts to do that would be Pop. Then maybe Adam Silver would fix the problem. Alas, we got no Pops anymore.
Instead, Mike Brown actually furthered the problem by coaching it as if it actually was worth risking the health of his players to go all out in an exhibition game. And yet his owner won’t even let him hang a banner for it next to our mighty Atlantic Division Champs banners.
I’d cry like a hungry baby with a poopy diaper if I was on a minumum or 2 way contract, and someone dropped $530,000 in my lap!
“I’d cry like a hungry baby with a poopy diaper if I was on a minumum or 2 way contract, and someone dropped $530,000 in my lap!”
Seriously. the money part was great and well-earned. I admire that KAT is donating his winnings to kids clubs in the DR.
But beyond the feel-good stuff, my only positive takeaways (other than no one was seriously injured) is that anything that promotes a positive perception of the Knicks is refreshing. Even though it was an exhibition game, it is still a showcase for the teams involved where all the pundits are watching and weighing in, for whatever that’s worth. We’re the talk of the town in December, and in a season where there are legitimate championship aspirations in the midst of a long run of winning seasons! That’s not nothing!
But at the end of the day, it’s mostly just hype. I would trade 10000 NBA Cup wins for 1 win vs. the Spurs on 12/31. It’s Adam Silver’s job to fix that.
You don’t get any info whatsoever from random individual regular season games, you get real evidence when you look at the entire body of work.
Last year even I fell into the trap about the Knicks not being able to beat the best teams especially during the final week of the regular season yet in the playoffs vs Boston all those losses in the regular season to them meant absolutely nothing. Knicks last year over 82 games were a really good team which was more important than the 8 games vs Cleveland and Boston, this season so far the Knicks thru 25 games plus the Cup Final are playing like a legitimate championship contender.
If we lost last night, would anyone be thinking that it was alarming that we couldn’t win the big one?
Z-man, you have made your position loud and clear about the meaning of the game. But please don’t buttress your argument by making believe what “anyone”, which I assume at least includes me, thinks.
I don’t know what you are getting all bent out of shape about, BE, but since you are, then let me ask you point blank: if we went on to lose yesterday by not overcoming that deficit after three quarters, would you have thought that it was alarming that we couldn’t win the big one?
And if the answer is yes, no worries! We can agree to disagree!
True exhibitions have no stakes and are arguably non-competitive (or faux-competitive).
I’d posit that last night was far more competitive than most regular season games. So what if it doesn’t count in the standings? It means whatever you want it to mean.
I for one am pleased that the team I root for gave a shit and beat a tough opponent.
Hang the banner! Fucking Harry Styles is up there, why not the Cup?
I mean, technically it was an exhibition game in that it doesn’t count. But the point you were refuting, Z-Man, was that Mitch’s performance meant nothing and was not an indicator of what he can bring in the playoffs or how easy it is to neutralize him. And in that sense, because the players were giving it all they had (unlike a typical Tuesday in December), it meant something. In the context of that maximum effort, Mitch shined. No, the Spurs didn’t go to the Misses Robinson strategy, but they probably didn’t expect him to out-perform Wemby on the boards. Might they try it in a full series? Sure. But the point stands that Mitch, in a maximum pressure game the players clearly took seriously, made an enormous difference.
Z-man, good question and appreciate the extra effort for an honest debate.. The simple answer is yes—unless Wenby went nuts would be thinking same old, same old, but not likely to improve versus the last two years where I thought improvement was a given. And since I am firmly in finals or bust mode this season, anything like a loss yesterday would be considered alarming while in previous years disappointing or even gravy.
Does anyone else think that Tyler Kolek looks like Clark Kent?
While I generally agree with you position that this game was mostly “a tale told by an idiot full of sound and fury signifying nothing,” yet I think two very important points manifested themselves.
The new coach actually DID WHAT THE GAME TOLD HIM TO DO, unlike the previous coach who spouted that platitude with regularity. There is no way Thibs ever would have re-inserted Kolek with 2:39 remaining in a 5 point game, not never! Kolek was his second best ball handler and no matter what the rotations called for, Brown was mentally flexable to problem solve on the fly with an outside the box solution, which I think bodes well.
Secondly, Kolek got the job done in a situation which he was facing more actual pressure than he will in any regular season game the rest of the season. He did his job the last 2:39 and iced the game with two free throws with 35 seconds left with no doubt swishes. Good for him .
By the way that little driving Billy the Hill McGill lefthanded jump hook the threw up there was a thing of beauty.
hey now billy mcgill averaged 16 and 6 for us that one season
Guys, listen… Harry earned his banner, ok?
Did you ever the see women coming out of those shows? Every single night they were like us after we beat the Celtics in Game 6. And he did that for 15 straight nights!! By the second week, even I was getting tickets. That dude got more people laid in NYC than alcohol did.
So you were somewhere nearby watching the women leaving Harry’s shows for a week. Once you had enough data… seems like a good process.
I am still happy we won. Honestly, if it costs us a regular season win I am ok with that. But whatever, rwaonable minds can disagree.
Hubert, I agree, Harry Styles has done heroic work to reverse the demographic crisis in the industrialized world.
lol no Clarence I wasn’t that creepy. I was just scrolling through my instagram feed and night after night it was flooded with footage of happy women at MSG. Happier looking than any Knicks fans, I’ll tell you that.
Being a single woman in NYC is kinda like being a Knicks fan, and Harry was the New Colossus: Give me your tired, your poor, your resting bitch faces yearning to breathe free
Just to emphasize, I don’t have an issue with anyone taking anything they want away from this cup game, exhibition or not. My beef is with Adam Silver that we are even having a conversation about it.
Another thought on what the cup final should count for — it should ABSOLUTELY count as “a game” for everyone who played in it and who might be eligible for various end-of-season awards. Even if the stats don’t count (which is also stupid).
I’m with Zman on this all the way. If they wanted a cash game they shoulda had every team ante up. Like 3 million each. I woulda watched that like im waiting to see who won the billion and a quarter power ball.
I totally get it Hubert. My panties are dropping for Harry faster than you can say “vanity fair photo shoot with visible filler injection holes.” You hear that Harry. You can do whatever you want to me.
“True exhibitions have no stakes and are arguably non-competitive (or faux-competitive).”
You musta missed Rocky vs. Thunderlips.
Sometimes charity really hurts.
Fire Atkinson!
I think we agree on the following positive takeaways:
-It was a blast to watch! Must-see Knicks TV. But then again, I watch everything, from summer league to preseason. Still, this was special, no doubt about it.
-Mike Brown deserves credit for deciding to go all-in on the game, even if an argument can be made that it was unnecessarily risky. He’s trying to built trust, community, confidence, vibes…and to put the Thibs stuff that much further into the rear-view mirror. Clearly it was a great win from a team-building/locker room perspective.
-It was a great win for the fan base and the credibility of the franchise. The pundits and bloggers were all over it. NBA fans of all persuasions got to see the in the most positive light they have been seen in since the Ewing era, maybe even since the Clyde-Willis era.
-The Legend of Jalen Brunson continues to grow, and his performance, in the tournament, on the podium, and in the media frenzy that followed, was first class. He’s certainly the greatest Knicks captain since Willis, and anything that bestows grace upon him is something we can all get behind. As OG would deadpan, Congrats Jalen, well deserved.
-It was great to see OG, Mitch and Kolek have magnificent games against a formidable opponent. We might disagree on what that means going forward, but it was still beautiful. Maybe it’s not Linsanity, but the Kolek hype is definitely a fun thing.
As a lifelong straight, and a lifelong hater of pop-music, I find myself strangely drawn to Harry Styles. Something about that guy shines.
Dolan will probably refuse to hang the NBA Finals Championship Banner as well, just to spite Silver.