So… not the best showing from our reserves — both guys expected to be in the rotation and guys expected to be in case of emergency depth — last night. Other than Kolek.
I still don’t get the Dadiet buzz
I still don’t get the Dadiet buzz
It’s obviously not what he can do for the team now. It’s more the hope that, based on his youth, his size, and his apparent skills, he can in a year or two become the kind of player that this team — really, any team — could use.
But if he seems completely unplayable for this season, and if there’s no market for Kolek(*), then Leon’s going to move Dadiet so he can have as many veteran reserves around as possible.
(*) Even if there is a market for Kolek, especially after last night’s game, I still assume Dadiet is the move, because his salary is bigger, and it would give the team the ability to sign a 15th player — including any eligible buyout guys after the deadline — later in the season.
I would hate to trade Dadier, but admittedly haven’t seen any pre season games, so… Maybe he still looks bad? To me he looked pretty smooth in summer league, just a year from being a contributor. Kind of like Deuce, who felt close but needed those years to get there.
But who knows… The problem is the unreliability of the available vets, in terms of performance but mostly health. Kind of need two, not one.
Dadiet seems basically French Kevin Knox. Who doesn’t know how to play 3-on-3.
It’s increasingly hard to believe we drafted Dadiet for any reason other than his willingness to accept 80% of the rookie scale.
In 2021 Leon turned the 19th pick into a heavily protected Hornets pick that predictably became a single second round pick.
And in 2024 he took Dadiet at 25 and is currently in discussions with half the league to try to turn him into a single second round pick.
See the resemblance?
It was likely about preserving as much trade value as possible because he didn’t like anyone in the draft again.
Dadiet est l’incinération.
“In 2021 Leon turned the 19th pick into a heavily protected Hornets pick that predictably became a single second round pick.”
yep that was kai jones
Dadiet is young and should get better, but I don’t think he’s shown enough to think we’d be trading away a future high caliber starter.
Kolek is older but will probably also get a little better. However, he’s a 3rd string player now trying to become a backup.
I’ve been against trading away all our youth because if we do, once the current team ages, we are going to have to start from scratch given we also won’t be making many picks for the next few years. I’d way prefer to start from a point where a few young players are ready to step in and replace our older guys. But I was thnking more in terms of potential starters. I’m not sure either if these will ever reach that point. So it may make sense to continue going all in on this team and worry about the rebuild 3-4 years from now.
It was likely about preserving as much trade value as possible because he didn’t like anyone in the draft again.
Dadiet est l’incinération.
My mind works differently.
Given management’s poor record in the draft, I’m glad they mostly use our picks and selections as trade assets to retain flexibility to do deals and free agent signings for established players that make us better.
If they had an elite record at drafting or I thought it was easy to bring something to the table other than random short term good or bad luck in the draft I’d probably feel differently.
Hell yeah we back up
Idk normally I’d say Dadiet is a long play and don’t worry about him yet etc, but I saw a quote from Brown being like ‘he has so much potential on defense but needs to work harder’ which feels like a pretty big red flag.
I think his shooting will come around eventually, like with Knox, but Dadiet needs other key pieces that maybe he’ll never have.
As for Koleksanity, he’s clearly been watching Cap cook! His lane moves looked pretty good, but he also needs to bring some defense or else…
If we have to lose one, I guess I’d prefer Kolek because of the age thing, but I’m glad he’s showing some spunk.
Were there any other standouts on either end last night? Thank GOD for the starters amirite?
Given management’s poor record in the draft, I’m glad they mostly use our picks and selections as trade assets to retain flexibility to do deals and free agent signings for established players that make us better.
As a fan of the Oakland/Las Vegas Raiders, this logic is depressingly familiar.
It goes something like this: Raiders trade multiple firsts for Carson Palmer or Davante Adams or whoever. I send texts to my Raider fan friends to complain, and they come back with the correct assertion that those picks would have been wasted on shitty players anyway.
I mean, they’re not wrong. But really, it would be nice if they weren’t utterly inept when it comes to the draft.
Obviously the Knicks aren’t the Raiders, and Leon Rose makes up for it in other ways, but his approach to the draft makes me want to go down to the garbage dump and beat on stuff with a baseball bat or go sign up for a primal scream therapy class.
My biggest takeaways last night were about how impressive several of the young Wizards players looked, and I’d include Marvin Bagley III in that group, along with Bub Carrington, Tre Johnson, and of course, Cam Whitmore, even 22yo Tristan Vuckevic looked pretty good! There’s a lot of positional size, skill, and athleticism there. Coach Keefe has them playing hard. Put those 5 out there in a rotation with Alex Sarr and vets Kris Middleton, CJ McCollum, Corey Kispert, and you have a pretty dangerous rotation on any given night. Not saying they fall back in the lottery enough to make that pick interesting, but I don’t think any team should take them lightly and I do expect them to get into the mid-high 20’s.
It’s increasingly hard to believe we drafted Dadiet for any reason other than his willingness to accept 80% of the rookie scale.
Hard agree.
You think they even watched any tape of him? They probably just looked at a list of guys who were projected to go in the middle of the second round, and reached out to all of their agents to see which of them would accept the 80% deal, and went with the first guy whose agent said yes.
Kolek going 20-4-6 was something he definitely needed. Or we definitely needed. Too bad he was 1-5 from three. If he could make those, he’s potentially a decent bench player.
Dadiet got some nice rebounds in traffic, but otherwise didn’t really belong on an NBA floor. His defense was clueless. Was going to make a Knox reference but Farfa beat me (nice job, Farfa…).
I hope Jemison is the starting center down in Westchester. He is very large and agile and fierce. Can’t really play basketball yet, but who knows. Those are teachable skills.
Tosan has circles under his eyes you could balance a teacup on.
Alex Len defines the word stiff, in all the ways possible.
Pretty much everyone else was meh, with an occasional good play by each of them that made me go hmm, but then it was back to meh.
Haven’t watched much preseason, but I’m a little (ok very) concerned about the Yabu comments. Heavy, out of shape, slow to react, outrebounded by smaller players etc.
He was the acquisition I was most excited about, and he’s supposed to be a key rotation player for coach Brown. Maybe it is the FIBA hangover effect, or maybe he just doesn’t give a shit about preseason.
Either way, I hope this isn’t a sign of things to come….
Speaking of draft picks, I just had a new thought.
We traded Toppin because he wanted more minutes and wasn’t being used effectively in our slow iso heavy offense under Thibs. He’s better playing faster in the open court. Brown wants to play way faster.
Who would you rather have as our backup PF now, Toppin or Yabu?
By the end of the season I may change my mind, but I might prefer Toppin right now.
Of course salary comes into the mix. Toppin makes a lot more now. So to keep him other parts of the team would have to look different, but things change.
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Was Dadiet terrible on defense last night? Otherwise his box score looks fine.
Kolek is a tough one because he does seem to be legitimately the best passer on the team.
Is Brogdan just washed?
Is Brogdan just washed?
He looks polished in terms of running the offense, but he also looks pretty slow.
I don’t think you can take anything away from last night, other than if all of our top 6 get hurt we’re in trouble.
I suppose you can say that a lineup of Deuce, Brogdon, Clarkson, Yabu, and (pick any non-rotation player other than Huk) is not going to work. In fact, playing Deuce, Clarkson, and Brogdon together will probably not work unless you have Mitch and OG out there with them, and maybe not even then. Except maybe as a counter to smaller opposing lineups.
I suppose you can also say that Yabu is clearly not a 5. Bagley ate his lunch, and Vuckevic his dinner.
If Thibs was coaching last night, his head would have exploded.
My issue with Kolek is that he is just not athletic enough on either end to be a legit NBA player. He can probably get away with it in spurts on offense so long as teams don’t have a read on him. Then on defense, he simply can’t guard anyone and would be mercilessly targeted. I’m not going to get excited because he ran off a few points against the scrubs on a lottery team when the Knicks were down 30 late in the game.
The best hope for him is that some dumb GM out there looked at the box score and got bamboozled into taking him off of our hands in a pure salary dump. But is any GM that dumb?
Most likely gonna take a 2nd to dump his “largest 2nd round contract ever.”
Given management’s poor record in the draft, I’m glad they mostly use our picks and selections as trade assets to retain flexibility
I think you need examine your position here, Strat.
Leon’s poor record in the draft is attributable exclusively to when he’s used our picks and selections as trade assets or to retain flexibility*.
When they’ve actually used their picks, they’ve selected Quickley at 25, Grimes at 25, McBride at 36, Hukporti at 58, and Diawara at 51. These are all good selections. I think it’s pretty clear Walt Perrin is doing a good job scouting. Tyler Kolek is really the only miss.**
* examples: trading #33 in 2020, #19 in 2021, #11 in 2022, #24 in 2024, #38 in 2024; and selecting Rokas, Dadiet to maintain flexibility
** Obi was a miss too, compared to who was available but he’s still a decent player and I always got the sense Leon did that because of his family’s relationship with Obi more than Perrin’s scouting report.
The defense in general is going to be a problem because we have all the same issues as last year, Clarkson is a clear cut negative defender and I think a case can be made that even if Yabu is overall a better player than Precious, he’s a worse defender.
Mitch better stay healthy and be ready for more minutes because he’s going to have to hold down the fort a lot of the time.
z-man i agree with you ive been saying all summer that we need to try our best to have two of og mitch deuce on the floor at almost (obviously not blowout situations) all times
Last night’s game was an interesting watch, even though our reserves got their asses handed to em. Points of interest for me:
1. Brogdon looked old, slow and awkward. He’s definitely not a PG in my eyes. He’s more like a SG with a PG mentality. Which oddly enough, feels like a nice fit with Clarkson and Deuce.
2. I don’t think Clarkson has lost a step. A quarter of a step, maybe. He still looks fairly spry and wiry strong. Love his confidence- he will be a threat whenever he’s on the floor that defenses will have to account for whether his shot is falling or not.
3. Tyler Kolek confused me. I bounced between “you gotta shoot on that drive!”, and “yea that’s it!” alot last night. He was active on defense though.
4. Dadiet’s a keeper. Only 6 boards last night? Felt like 12 lol.
5. McCullar is definitely Josh Hart lite. Too bad there may not be room for him on the main roster or Westchester- depending on what happens with Diawara. Speaking of..
6. I’m super intrigued by his athleticism, but I wonder if his upside is worth possibly losing McCullar.
7. I wish we could make Jemison our 3rd C. How can we keep him?
Farfa – perfect comment
Hubert,
You know how much I loved Quickley, both when we drafted him and as a player, but I like OG better. So I’m glad we used that asset to upgrade.
I don’t dislike Toppin, but we were supposed to draft Haliburton. Not only was Haliburton the BPA, he fit a need at the time. That was major blunder.
I also like Grimes as a player and always did. I can’t disagree there, but he’s turning into a bit of a problem. He complained about playing time here, couldn’t stick in Detroit (though he was still injured), had issues in Dallas and now didn’t sign with the 76ers. The problem is he’s good, but he thinks he’s way better than he actually is. No no one wants to give him the minutes and ball as much as he wants or sign him to the deal he wants so they keep letting him go.
I don’t think they drafted Dadiet because he was willing to accept less. I think they liked him as much as anyone else available at the time but also liked the idea they could stash him away for awhile if he didn’t take a discount. But he wanted to be here now and took less. If they didn’t like him, they could gave rolled the pick out at 95 cents on the dollar and we would have debated it for 2 years. 😉
If they didn’t like him, they could gave rolled the pick out at 95 cents on the dollar and we would have debated it for 2 years. 😉
IIRC there was a report at the time stating they were about to do that until his agent accepted 80%.
Just to be clear on Dadiet, I haven’t given up on him. I just haven’t seen enough from him yet on the court on either side or in terms of progress to think he’s going to be a solid two-way starter. I prefer young projects to show me that can be really good on one side and we just need to work on the other. Then I have a lot of patience, maybe more than I should (see Frank).
and selecting Rokas
We’ve talked about some of the others extensively, so I’ll just point out that we got Rokas by trading down from 32 to 34 & 36. Assuming they wanted Deuce all along, Rokas was pretty much a freebie flier. Should’ve taken Herb Jones though.
Agree with you, Z-Man, that Yabu does NOT look like he should play center unless the other team has gone super-small. At least Precious had those weird extendo-arms that blocked shots out of nowhere.
On the other hand, we have Mitch and Kat and Huk, with MAYBE Jemison in the wings. That’s not such a bad center roster.
only watched some parts of the game, it was pretty ugly…they all looked nervous and tight…
yabu at the five was not good…brogdon looks slower out there than even an old andre miller did…
I’ve stopped watching what kolek does, hope he proves me wrong…couple of nice opening shots from dadiet, he needs to get waaaay more physical on defense…
yabu dabu doo…yeah man, not an auspicious beginning to knick life…he’ll find his game, eventually…
was wondering if huk had been available and in the starting five if they would have looked so unbalanced…
The difference between Knox and Dadiet is that Knox was drafted 9th and Dadiet was drafted 25th. Knox wouldn’t have been nearly as terrible a pick if he went in the late 1st.
Also, damn, I always forget how loaded that 2018 was. Even drafting Knox at 25 that year means taking him ahead of:
– Mo Wagner
– Shamet
– Robert Williams
– Brunson
– Mitch
– Gary Trent, Jr.
– Jarred Vanderbilt
– Bruce Brown
– Melton
– Shake Milton
And a bunch of other player not that useful but better than Knox
I think his shooting will come around eventually, like with Knox, but Dadiet needs other key pieces that maybe he’ll never have.
Knox’s shooting never really came around.
I assume Yabu would look better if we featured him more on offense, but we really haven’t done that much in the preseason and I’m not sure how much we’ll really do it in the regular season.
He ended up with an efficient scoring line, including 2-5 from 3, but his defense and rebounding were atrocious. I remember him getting blown by pretty bad on the perimeter once too, so it wasn’t just his interior defense.
For what it’s worth, I thought that both Brogdon and Clarkson looked decent out there. As mentioned Brogdon looks super slow mo, but I didn’t see him get burned on D (didn’t look too closely, though), and I thought his handling of the offense was quite good. Clarkson passed up some bad shots to actually pass the ball, looked to be trying hard to play point guard and team ball. The shots he did take seemed ‘in rhythm’, even if he was 4-11. Amusingly he had zero assists, but that seemed to have more to do with his teammates being unable to make shots.
Neither stuck out as being terrific, but they both felt quite cromulent. I’d actually be happy if we found a way to keep both.
#TradeKnox
Thing we have to keep in mind expectations-wise is Yabu’s price point. I don’t think anyone should expect that we signed a $30M player for $5M. He’s at best #8 in our rotation, and the hope is that he can play a reasonably productive (or at least not detrimental) 15-20 mpg. Meaning, stretch the floor, wreck the rim on some straight-line drives, back door cuts and finishes in transition, body up some bigs on D, protect the paint a bit. If we get into early December and he still looks as bad as he has thus far, then maybe he can be swapped out for a better player…if the cap restrictions allow for that.
It just underscores the pitfalls of placing too much stock in a player lighting it up on a shitty team. This is a different kind of expectations microscope (although with the size of his ass, maybe more of a telescope) and maybe he’s just a bit of a deer (or elephant) in the headlights right now. Probably best to both adjust expectations and delay judgment until a few games in to the regular season when Hart is back and the scrubs are benched.
The Garrison Matthews Train went a bit off the rails last night. Seem like he needs to be the only scrub on the floor to be effective.
I think slo-mo effective, injury prone Brogdan is a useful piece but then Kolek keeps his spot as insurance if Malcolm becomes non -NBA mobile or injured. Not ideal roster construction for an all-in contender.
As pointed out in a recent thread, it’s our overall lack of rotational size/athleticism that is most concerning. Beyond Mitch and OG (who have issues outside the athleticism box), every other player in the rotation has a significant flaw:
Brunson: height, length, verticality
Bridges: strength/bulk
KAT: foot speed/quickness/lateral agility
Hart: Height
Deuce: Height
Yabu: Height/speed/verticality
Clarkson: strength/bulk
Brogdon: slow
Obviously these guys make up for these issues in other ways, but we are going to struggle vs. long, athletic teams unless either our offense really has it going and/or the opponent is having an off night.
Almost every NBA player has some sort of athletic deficiency. I think this is being overblown.
I mean, obviously OKC is probably going to gentleman sweep us in the finals but until then, I think we’ll be ok.
OKC didn’t strike me as a team that’s going to repeat. They’re probably going to win multiple titles but I have a feeling the second one won’t be this year. I have Denver and OKC as heavy co-favorites, us and Golden State with the puncher’s chance, and the Rockets needing to make a trade to get back in. Jokic gonna win again this year, I think.
I like our chances if we face Denver.
Think Leon and co strategy has mostly been drafting folks with elite NBA measurments and athletic ability, then hope they can figure it out and get good at playing basketball. Only exeption from below is Kolek who was supposed to good at basketball already but small in size.
Obi Toppin, Immanuel Quickley, Quentin Grimes, Jericho Sims, Pacôme Dadiet, Kevin McCullar Jr., Ariel Hukporti, Mohammed Diawarra, Tosan Evbuomwan, Trey Jemison III, James Nnaji.
If we’re indeed in the era of hyper physical specimens, – is this a terrible long term moonshot strategy just because it does not look like it hit big so far?
“Almost every NBA player has some sort of athletic deficiency. I think this is being overblown.”
Well I did say “we are going to struggle with long, athletic teams unless either our offense really has it going and/or the opponent is having an off night…” so it becomes a matter of how many teams we are talking about. I agree that it’s not that many.
Orlando and Detroit are the teams in the EC I think stand out as being particularly long and athletic. I think that Indiana’s length and athleticism was a problem for us last year. Obviously they are not the same this year without Turner and Hali, but they still probably have an advantage in that department. The Hawks will be a good test for us, although Trae is a huge structural disadvantage in that dept.
In the West, OKC and Minny stand out as long, athletic teams.
RIP D’Angelo.
His SNL version of The Charade (2015-ish) was (is) primo.
“Think Leon and co strategy has mostly been drafting folks with elite NBA measurments and athletic ability, then hope they can figure it out and get good at playing basketball.”
I don’t really agree with this at all. In addition to Kolek, there were better choices on the basis of “elite NBA measurements and athletic ability” than several the guys we picked, including IQ, Grimes, Deuce, Rokas, and Dadiet…all of whom are reasonably athletic but not “elite.” As to Sims, McCullar, Hukporti, and Diawara, they were among the very last players drafted so you are rolling the dice there no matter what. The other guys you mentioned…Tosan, Jemison, Nnaji…were not drafted by us.
Not sure that I love the drible handoff between guards type action we’re seing to get into sets in Brown’s offense. This type of action is probably best suitable for yonger super athletic guards who catch the ball in momentum and attack the paint. Jalen and Mikal don’t strike like the best personnel for this. TBD, I guess.
Also, not a fan of point center with back door cuts or movement type action with Mitch or Yabu as the facilitators. Seen this action way too many times in the first three games.
Will of course give them 20-25 games to figure this out before forming an opinion but not I’m sure why I can’t help myself growing in skepticism.
Perhaps I’m just a little afraid that Leon may have botched coaching search this summer on the eve of the most important season of the 21st century.
Think Leon and co strategy has mostly been drafting folks with elite NBA measurments and athletic ability,
I wouldn’t describe IQ, Grimes, Deuce, or McCullar as elite athletes. What they had was a strong college track record that, if anything, was underrated because of their perceived lack of athleticism. Same with Kolek. For instance, IQ and Deuce can struggle getting to the basket because they don’t have the burst.
I like our chances if we face Denver.
I like our chances if Mitch is healthy and only if Mitch is healthy
Yeah, I mean Brown isn’t as good a coach as Thibs … that said, it’s reasonable to hope that he unlocks something that fell within Thibs’s blind spots while retaining the requisite percentage of the good stuff Thibs brought to the table so that net-net, they’re more dangerous come playoff time.
Could happen. We’ll see.
Leon wasn’t brought here to draft well, and he hasn’t.
Thunder are the obvious champ pick. Only things that can undo them: catastrophic injuries, a Jokic 7-game performance for the ages, or a Giannis trade that sends him to the Knicks (OG and Bridges should be a good return for a guy on his way out) or the Spurs (Giannis and Wemby could be the most unguardable pick-and-roll in league history). The Hawks unloading every asset they have? Go for it, have fun, fuck Trae Young.
RIP D’angelo. Just caught Pino and Blake Mills (and Chris Dave and Sam Gendel) just a couple miles from my house in war-torn Portland. Incredible concert, almost melted into my seat.
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My bad..I only mean’t position length and wingspan. Don’t think jumping ability and burst was weighted the same. You’re right.
IQ has 6’8′ wingspan as a PG. He’s a shooter first. Same with Grimes. Think they let Thibs pick Deuce. Rokas had great size for a PG and a 6’9” wingspan. Same with McCullar who not only has a legit NBA frame but was supposed to be further along the good at basketball part. Dadier 19yr old 6’9′ small forward who could still grow. Nnaji and Diawara are young physical specimens. Huk and Sims have huge frames with both size and elite verticals.
Maybe I’m wrong and having one of those days today…it’s mostly because I’m annoyed that Leon whiffed the 2024 draft and he needed 1 out of 3 players to become part of rotation. Thought he got lucky with Brogdon but he looked like a YMCA unc last night.
My bad..I only mean’t position length and wingspan. Don’t think jumping ability and burst was weighted the same.
Yeah, that seems pretty accurate though I’ll note Dadiet’s 6’9″ wingspan is disappointing for a 6’9″ player. He’s still lanky enough to offset that.
I wouldn’t describe IQ, Grimes, Deuce, or McCullar as elite athletes.
And frankly Obi isn’t, either. He’s an elite jumper and he glides like a gazelle but his lateral mobility is way below average.
I think Leon’s strategy is pretty clear, at least when he’s drafting in the top 40: he wants older players bc he thinks they ready to contribute immediately. You can see this even in the guys he didn’t take (remember when he was lusting after Duarte?). That’s why Dadiet was such a weird pick, and likely only taken because of the money.
You can also see athleticism isn’t a priority when you look at the players he didn’t draft. Kyshawn George, for instance, is a great guy to take if you’re just drafting athletes and hoping they figure out.
Most glaring instance, though, has to be taking Kolek over Collier. That gulf in athleticism is wide.
OKC didn’t strike me as a team that’s going to repeat.
We all know that OKC was gifted this championship, like the 2019 Raptors before them. But they DID push a healthy Pacers team to a game 7 which means they are an amazing basketball team in their own right and a repeat should be considered the default setting until Tyrese wrestles his starting job back from Benny.
Most glaring instance, though, has to be taking Kolek over Collier. That gulf in athleticism is wide.
You figure they took Kolek because he was a more “win now” kind of player, a 23 year old who, if he stuck, would be able to contribute soon. Collier, 20 years old and raw, was probably 2-3 years away best case.
Of course, as it turns out, Kolek probably can’t really play in the NBA at all, while Collier still has lottery-scratch-off material that hasn’t been scratched yet. One guy is still a prospect and one guy isn’t.
The Jazz were dreadful so they were able to give Collier lots of developmental minutes, which of course should help his career. If we had drafted Collier, he never would have played. Not last year, not this year, not next year. For the same reasons, I don’t expect Pacome Dadiet to ever play a meaningful minute here. We’re all in on win-now mode and aren’t devoting any resources to developing raw young kids. He’s not gonna hang around the back end of the roster and then develop into a useful piece at like age 23 or whatever three years from now. He’ll be long gone by then. That is just not our steez.
Nobody was a better 12th man than Lavor Postell.
OKC flirted with 70 wins (29:1 vs EC tells me that they could have been the best regular season team in history of the league if they were in the East). They also had the best rated defense in the history of the league. This is the most complete team since the Steph/KD Warriors. I think they have a realistic shot of winning multiple championships and they will flirt with 70 wins again this season.
I was just suggesting that Kolek over Collier is a counter to the argument that Leon’s strategy is to draft elite athletes and hope they figure it out.
Yeah, doesn’t look like either of Kolek or Dadiet are in the long-term plans. But if young players actually show something they have a shot to stick…Huk is a good example. Maybe Diawara as well. And the 2-way route sometimes works.
In any case, I don’t think that makes those guys bad picks…alas, some guys develop quickly, some don’t.
I don’t doubt that OKC is going to dominate the regular season again but Jokic almost beat them with a lineup full of injured teammates and a coach who just got the job two weeks before the series started.
Winning back-to-back is really hard, and I just don’t think they have it in them yet. This year I’m backing the all time player over the all time team.
OKC still has some players who should improve because of age alone, notably Chet who will still be only 23 and Jalen Williams who will be turning 24. They’re also adding Nicola Topic at some point this season, one of the more talented prospects in the 2024 draft. The whole team also now has deep playoff experience. They’ll keep winning the title until San Antonio puts enough talent around Wemby.
Just to be clear, I am rooting hard for Kolek and truly hope he turns the corner. He is very likeable and would be a great feel-good story.
One thing I worry about Yabusele is that playing Eurobasket this summer took a lot out of him. I’ve forgotten who it was, but I remember reading that one good NBA player skipped Eurobasket this summer because he wanted to be rested and practiced for the NBA season.
63 replies on “2025-10-14 Daily Post”
So… not the best showing from our reserves — both guys expected to be in the rotation and guys expected to be in case of emergency depth — last night. Other than Kolek.
I still don’t get the Dadiet buzz
It’s obviously not what he can do for the team now. It’s more the hope that, based on his youth, his size, and his apparent skills, he can in a year or two become the kind of player that this team — really, any team — could use.
But if he seems completely unplayable for this season, and if there’s no market for Kolek(*), then Leon’s going to move Dadiet so he can have as many veteran reserves around as possible.
(*) Even if there is a market for Kolek, especially after last night’s game, I still assume Dadiet is the move, because his salary is bigger, and it would give the team the ability to sign a 15th player — including any eligible buyout guys after the deadline — later in the season.
I would hate to trade Dadier, but admittedly haven’t seen any pre season games, so… Maybe he still looks bad? To me he looked pretty smooth in summer league, just a year from being a contributor. Kind of like Deuce, who felt close but needed those years to get there.
But who knows… The problem is the unreliability of the available vets, in terms of performance but mostly health. Kind of need two, not one.
Dadiet seems basically French Kevin Knox. Who doesn’t know how to play 3-on-3.
It’s increasingly hard to believe we drafted Dadiet for any reason other than his willingness to accept 80% of the rookie scale.
In 2021 Leon turned the 19th pick into a heavily protected Hornets pick that predictably became a single second round pick.
And in 2024 he took Dadiet at 25 and is currently in discussions with half the league to try to turn him into a single second round pick.
See the resemblance?
It was likely about preserving as much trade value as possible because he didn’t like anyone in the draft again.
Dadiet est l’incinération.
“In 2021 Leon turned the 19th pick into a heavily protected Hornets pick that predictably became a single second round pick.”
yep that was kai jones
Dadiet is young and should get better, but I don’t think he’s shown enough to think we’d be trading away a future high caliber starter.
Kolek is older but will probably also get a little better. However, he’s a 3rd string player now trying to become a backup.
I’ve been against trading away all our youth because if we do, once the current team ages, we are going to have to start from scratch given we also won’t be making many picks for the next few years. I’d way prefer to start from a point where a few young players are ready to step in and replace our older guys. But I was thnking more in terms of potential starters. I’m not sure either if these will ever reach that point. So it may make sense to continue going all in on this team and worry about the rebuild 3-4 years from now.
My mind works differently.
Given management’s poor record in the draft, I’m glad they mostly use our picks and selections as trade assets to retain flexibility to do deals and free agent signings for established players that make us better.
If they had an elite record at drafting or I thought it was easy to bring something to the table other than random short term good or bad luck in the draft I’d probably feel differently.
Hell yeah we back up
Idk normally I’d say Dadiet is a long play and don’t worry about him yet etc, but I saw a quote from Brown being like ‘he has so much potential on defense but needs to work harder’ which feels like a pretty big red flag.
I think his shooting will come around eventually, like with Knox, but Dadiet needs other key pieces that maybe he’ll never have.
As for Koleksanity, he’s clearly been watching Cap cook! His lane moves looked pretty good, but he also needs to bring some defense or else…
If we have to lose one, I guess I’d prefer Kolek because of the age thing, but I’m glad he’s showing some spunk.
Were there any other standouts on either end last night? Thank GOD for the starters amirite?
As a fan of the Oakland/Las Vegas Raiders, this logic is depressingly familiar.
It goes something like this: Raiders trade multiple firsts for Carson Palmer or Davante Adams or whoever. I send texts to my Raider fan friends to complain, and they come back with the correct assertion that those picks would have been wasted on shitty players anyway.
I mean, they’re not wrong. But really, it would be nice if they weren’t utterly inept when it comes to the draft.
Obviously the Knicks aren’t the Raiders, and Leon Rose makes up for it in other ways, but his approach to the draft makes me want to go down to the garbage dump and beat on stuff with a baseball bat or go sign up for a primal scream therapy class.
My biggest takeaways last night were about how impressive several of the young Wizards players looked, and I’d include Marvin Bagley III in that group, along with Bub Carrington, Tre Johnson, and of course, Cam Whitmore, even 22yo Tristan Vuckevic looked pretty good! There’s a lot of positional size, skill, and athleticism there. Coach Keefe has them playing hard. Put those 5 out there in a rotation with Alex Sarr and vets Kris Middleton, CJ McCollum, Corey Kispert, and you have a pretty dangerous rotation on any given night. Not saying they fall back in the lottery enough to make that pick interesting, but I don’t think any team should take them lightly and I do expect them to get into the mid-high 20’s.
Hard agree.
You think they even watched any tape of him? They probably just looked at a list of guys who were projected to go in the middle of the second round, and reached out to all of their agents to see which of them would accept the 80% deal, and went with the first guy whose agent said yes.
Kolek going 20-4-6 was something he definitely needed. Or we definitely needed. Too bad he was 1-5 from three. If he could make those, he’s potentially a decent bench player.
Dadiet got some nice rebounds in traffic, but otherwise didn’t really belong on an NBA floor. His defense was clueless. Was going to make a Knox reference but Farfa beat me (nice job, Farfa…).
I hope Jemison is the starting center down in Westchester. He is very large and agile and fierce. Can’t really play basketball yet, but who knows. Those are teachable skills.
Tosan has circles under his eyes you could balance a teacup on.
Alex Len defines the word stiff, in all the ways possible.
Pretty much everyone else was meh, with an occasional good play by each of them that made me go hmm, but then it was back to meh.
Haven’t watched much preseason, but I’m a little (ok very) concerned about the Yabu comments. Heavy, out of shape, slow to react, outrebounded by smaller players etc.
He was the acquisition I was most excited about, and he’s supposed to be a key rotation player for coach Brown. Maybe it is the FIBA hangover effect, or maybe he just doesn’t give a shit about preseason.
Either way, I hope this isn’t a sign of things to come….
Speaking of draft picks, I just had a new thought.
We traded Toppin because he wanted more minutes and wasn’t being used effectively in our slow iso heavy offense under Thibs. He’s better playing faster in the open court. Brown wants to play way faster.
Who would you rather have as our backup PF now, Toppin or Yabu?
By the end of the season I may change my mind, but I might prefer Toppin right now.
Of course salary comes into the mix. Toppin makes a lot more now. So to keep him other parts of the team would have to look different, but things change.
Was Dadiet terrible on defense last night? Otherwise his box score looks fine.
Kolek is a tough one because he does seem to be legitimately the best passer on the team.
Is Brogdan just washed?
He looks polished in terms of running the offense, but he also looks pretty slow.
I don’t think you can take anything away from last night, other than if all of our top 6 get hurt we’re in trouble.
I suppose you can say that a lineup of Deuce, Brogdon, Clarkson, Yabu, and (pick any non-rotation player other than Huk) is not going to work. In fact, playing Deuce, Clarkson, and Brogdon together will probably not work unless you have Mitch and OG out there with them, and maybe not even then. Except maybe as a counter to smaller opposing lineups.
I suppose you can also say that Yabu is clearly not a 5. Bagley ate his lunch, and Vuckevic his dinner.
If Thibs was coaching last night, his head would have exploded.
My issue with Kolek is that he is just not athletic enough on either end to be a legit NBA player. He can probably get away with it in spurts on offense so long as teams don’t have a read on him. Then on defense, he simply can’t guard anyone and would be mercilessly targeted. I’m not going to get excited because he ran off a few points against the scrubs on a lottery team when the Knicks were down 30 late in the game.
The best hope for him is that some dumb GM out there looked at the box score and got bamboozled into taking him off of our hands in a pure salary dump. But is any GM that dumb?
Most likely gonna take a 2nd to dump his “largest 2nd round contract ever.”
I think you need examine your position here, Strat.
Leon’s poor record in the draft is attributable exclusively to when he’s used our picks and selections as trade assets or to retain flexibility*.
When they’ve actually used their picks, they’ve selected Quickley at 25, Grimes at 25, McBride at 36, Hukporti at 58, and Diawara at 51. These are all good selections. I think it’s pretty clear Walt Perrin is doing a good job scouting. Tyler Kolek is really the only miss.**
* examples: trading #33 in 2020, #19 in 2021, #11 in 2022, #24 in 2024, #38 in 2024; and selecting Rokas, Dadiet to maintain flexibility
** Obi was a miss too, compared to who was available but he’s still a decent player and I always got the sense Leon did that because of his family’s relationship with Obi more than Perrin’s scouting report.
The defense in general is going to be a problem because we have all the same issues as last year, Clarkson is a clear cut negative defender and I think a case can be made that even if Yabu is overall a better player than Precious, he’s a worse defender.
Mitch better stay healthy and be ready for more minutes because he’s going to have to hold down the fort a lot of the time.
z-man i agree with you ive been saying all summer that we need to try our best to have two of og mitch deuce on the floor at almost (obviously not blowout situations) all times
Last night’s game was an interesting watch, even though our reserves got their asses handed to em. Points of interest for me:
1. Brogdon looked old, slow and awkward. He’s definitely not a PG in my eyes. He’s more like a SG with a PG mentality. Which oddly enough, feels like a nice fit with Clarkson and Deuce.
2. I don’t think Clarkson has lost a step. A quarter of a step, maybe. He still looks fairly spry and wiry strong. Love his confidence- he will be a threat whenever he’s on the floor that defenses will have to account for whether his shot is falling or not.
3. Tyler Kolek confused me. I bounced between “you gotta shoot on that drive!”, and “yea that’s it!” alot last night. He was active on defense though.
4. Dadiet’s a keeper. Only 6 boards last night? Felt like 12 lol.
5. McCullar is definitely Josh Hart lite. Too bad there may not be room for him on the main roster or Westchester- depending on what happens with Diawara. Speaking of..
6. I’m super intrigued by his athleticism, but I wonder if his upside is worth possibly losing McCullar.
7. I wish we could make Jemison our 3rd C. How can we keep him?
Farfa – perfect comment
Hubert,
You know how much I loved Quickley, both when we drafted him and as a player, but I like OG better. So I’m glad we used that asset to upgrade.
I don’t dislike Toppin, but we were supposed to draft Haliburton. Not only was Haliburton the BPA, he fit a need at the time. That was major blunder.
I also like Grimes as a player and always did. I can’t disagree there, but he’s turning into a bit of a problem. He complained about playing time here, couldn’t stick in Detroit (though he was still injured), had issues in Dallas and now didn’t sign with the 76ers. The problem is he’s good, but he thinks he’s way better than he actually is. No no one wants to give him the minutes and ball as much as he wants or sign him to the deal he wants so they keep letting him go.
I don’t think they drafted Dadiet because he was willing to accept less. I think they liked him as much as anyone else available at the time but also liked the idea they could stash him away for awhile if he didn’t take a discount. But he wanted to be here now and took less. If they didn’t like him, they could gave rolled the pick out at 95 cents on the dollar and we would have debated it for 2 years. 😉
IIRC there was a report at the time stating they were about to do that until his agent accepted 80%.
Just to be clear on Dadiet, I haven’t given up on him. I just haven’t seen enough from him yet on the court on either side or in terms of progress to think he’s going to be a solid two-way starter. I prefer young projects to show me that can be really good on one side and we just need to work on the other. Then I have a lot of patience, maybe more than I should (see Frank).
We’ve talked about some of the others extensively, so I’ll just point out that we got Rokas by trading down from 32 to 34 & 36. Assuming they wanted Deuce all along, Rokas was pretty much a freebie flier. Should’ve taken Herb Jones though.
Agree with you, Z-Man, that Yabu does NOT look like he should play center unless the other team has gone super-small. At least Precious had those weird extendo-arms that blocked shots out of nowhere.
On the other hand, we have Mitch and Kat and Huk, with MAYBE Jemison in the wings. That’s not such a bad center roster.
only watched some parts of the game, it was pretty ugly…they all looked nervous and tight…
yabu at the five was not good…brogdon looks slower out there than even an old andre miller did…
I’ve stopped watching what kolek does, hope he proves me wrong…couple of nice opening shots from dadiet, he needs to get waaaay more physical on defense…
yabu dabu doo…yeah man, not an auspicious beginning to knick life…he’ll find his game, eventually…
was wondering if huk had been available and in the starting five if they would have looked so unbalanced…
The difference between Knox and Dadiet is that Knox was drafted 9th and Dadiet was drafted 25th. Knox wouldn’t have been nearly as terrible a pick if he went in the late 1st.
Also, damn, I always forget how loaded that 2018 was. Even drafting Knox at 25 that year means taking him ahead of:
– Mo Wagner
– Shamet
– Robert Williams
– Brunson
– Mitch
– Gary Trent, Jr.
– Jarred Vanderbilt
– Bruce Brown
– Melton
– Shake Milton
And a bunch of other player not that useful but better than Knox
Knox’s shooting never really came around.
I assume Yabu would look better if we featured him more on offense, but we really haven’t done that much in the preseason and I’m not sure how much we’ll really do it in the regular season.
He ended up with an efficient scoring line, including 2-5 from 3, but his defense and rebounding were atrocious. I remember him getting blown by pretty bad on the perimeter once too, so it wasn’t just his interior defense.
For what it’s worth, I thought that both Brogdon and Clarkson looked decent out there. As mentioned Brogdon looks super slow mo, but I didn’t see him get burned on D (didn’t look too closely, though), and I thought his handling of the offense was quite good. Clarkson passed up some bad shots to actually pass the ball, looked to be trying hard to play point guard and team ball. The shots he did take seemed ‘in rhythm’, even if he was 4-11. Amusingly he had zero assists, but that seemed to have more to do with his teammates being unable to make shots.
Neither stuck out as being terrific, but they both felt quite cromulent. I’d actually be happy if we found a way to keep both.
#TradeKnox
Thing we have to keep in mind expectations-wise is Yabu’s price point. I don’t think anyone should expect that we signed a $30M player for $5M. He’s at best #8 in our rotation, and the hope is that he can play a reasonably productive (or at least not detrimental) 15-20 mpg. Meaning, stretch the floor, wreck the rim on some straight-line drives, back door cuts and finishes in transition, body up some bigs on D, protect the paint a bit. If we get into early December and he still looks as bad as he has thus far, then maybe he can be swapped out for a better player…if the cap restrictions allow for that.
It just underscores the pitfalls of placing too much stock in a player lighting it up on a shitty team. This is a different kind of expectations microscope (although with the size of his ass, maybe more of a telescope) and maybe he’s just a bit of a deer (or elephant) in the headlights right now. Probably best to both adjust expectations and delay judgment until a few games in to the regular season when Hart is back and the scrubs are benched.
The Garrison Matthews Train went a bit off the rails last night. Seem like he needs to be the only scrub on the floor to be effective.
I think slo-mo effective, injury prone Brogdan is a useful piece but then Kolek keeps his spot as insurance if Malcolm becomes non -NBA mobile or injured. Not ideal roster construction for an all-in contender.
As pointed out in a recent thread, it’s our overall lack of rotational size/athleticism that is most concerning. Beyond Mitch and OG (who have issues outside the athleticism box), every other player in the rotation has a significant flaw:
Brunson: height, length, verticality
Bridges: strength/bulk
KAT: foot speed/quickness/lateral agility
Hart: Height
Deuce: Height
Yabu: Height/speed/verticality
Clarkson: strength/bulk
Brogdon: slow
Obviously these guys make up for these issues in other ways, but we are going to struggle vs. long, athletic teams unless either our offense really has it going and/or the opponent is having an off night.
Almost every NBA player has some sort of athletic deficiency. I think this is being overblown.
I mean, obviously OKC is probably going to gentleman sweep us in the finals but until then, I think we’ll be ok.
OKC didn’t strike me as a team that’s going to repeat. They’re probably going to win multiple titles but I have a feeling the second one won’t be this year. I have Denver and OKC as heavy co-favorites, us and Golden State with the puncher’s chance, and the Rockets needing to make a trade to get back in. Jokic gonna win again this year, I think.
I like our chances if we face Denver.
Think Leon and co strategy has mostly been drafting folks with elite NBA measurments and athletic ability, then hope they can figure it out and get good at playing basketball. Only exeption from below is Kolek who was supposed to good at basketball already but small in size.
Obi Toppin, Immanuel Quickley, Quentin Grimes, Jericho Sims, Pacôme Dadiet, Kevin McCullar Jr., Ariel Hukporti, Mohammed Diawarra, Tosan Evbuomwan, Trey Jemison III, James Nnaji.
If we’re indeed in the era of hyper physical specimens, – is this a terrible long term moonshot strategy just because it does not look like it hit big so far?
“Almost every NBA player has some sort of athletic deficiency. I think this is being overblown.”
Well I did say “we are going to struggle with long, athletic teams unless either our offense really has it going and/or the opponent is having an off night…” so it becomes a matter of how many teams we are talking about. I agree that it’s not that many.
Orlando and Detroit are the teams in the EC I think stand out as being particularly long and athletic. I think that Indiana’s length and athleticism was a problem for us last year. Obviously they are not the same this year without Turner and Hali, but they still probably have an advantage in that department. The Hawks will be a good test for us, although Trae is a huge structural disadvantage in that dept.
In the West, OKC and Minny stand out as long, athletic teams.
RIP D’Angelo.
His SNL version of The Charade (2015-ish) was (is) primo.
“Think Leon and co strategy has mostly been drafting folks with elite NBA measurments and athletic ability, then hope they can figure it out and get good at playing basketball.”
I don’t really agree with this at all. In addition to Kolek, there were better choices on the basis of “elite NBA measurements and athletic ability” than several the guys we picked, including IQ, Grimes, Deuce, Rokas, and Dadiet…all of whom are reasonably athletic but not “elite.” As to Sims, McCullar, Hukporti, and Diawara, they were among the very last players drafted so you are rolling the dice there no matter what. The other guys you mentioned…Tosan, Jemison, Nnaji…were not drafted by us.
Not sure that I love the drible handoff between guards type action we’re seing to get into sets in Brown’s offense. This type of action is probably best suitable for yonger super athletic guards who catch the ball in momentum and attack the paint. Jalen and Mikal don’t strike like the best personnel for this. TBD, I guess.
Also, not a fan of point center with back door cuts or movement type action with Mitch or Yabu as the facilitators. Seen this action way too many times in the first three games.
Will of course give them 20-25 games to figure this out before forming an opinion but not I’m sure why I can’t help myself growing in skepticism.
Perhaps I’m just a little afraid that Leon may have botched coaching search this summer on the eve of the most important season of the 21st century.
I wouldn’t describe IQ, Grimes, Deuce, or McCullar as elite athletes. What they had was a strong college track record that, if anything, was underrated because of their perceived lack of athleticism. Same with Kolek. For instance, IQ and Deuce can struggle getting to the basket because they don’t have the burst.
I like our chances if Mitch is healthy and only if Mitch is healthy
Yeah, I mean Brown isn’t as good a coach as Thibs … that said, it’s reasonable to hope that he unlocks something that fell within Thibs’s blind spots while retaining the requisite percentage of the good stuff Thibs brought to the table so that net-net, they’re more dangerous come playoff time.
Could happen. We’ll see.
Leon wasn’t brought here to draft well, and he hasn’t.
Thunder are the obvious champ pick. Only things that can undo them: catastrophic injuries, a Jokic 7-game performance for the ages, or a Giannis trade that sends him to the Knicks (OG and Bridges should be a good return for a guy on his way out) or the Spurs (Giannis and Wemby could be the most unguardable pick-and-roll in league history). The Hawks unloading every asset they have? Go for it, have fun, fuck Trae Young.
RIP D’angelo. Just caught Pino and Blake Mills (and Chris Dave and Sam Gendel) just a couple miles from my house in war-torn Portland. Incredible concert, almost melted into my seat.
My bad..I only mean’t position length and wingspan. Don’t think jumping ability and burst was weighted the same. You’re right.
IQ has 6’8′ wingspan as a PG. He’s a shooter first. Same with Grimes. Think they let Thibs pick Deuce. Rokas had great size for a PG and a 6’9” wingspan. Same with McCullar who not only has a legit NBA frame but was supposed to be further along the good at basketball part. Dadier 19yr old 6’9′ small forward who could still grow. Nnaji and Diawara are young physical specimens. Huk and Sims have huge frames with both size and elite verticals.
Maybe I’m wrong and having one of those days today…it’s mostly because I’m annoyed that Leon whiffed the 2024 draft and he needed 1 out of 3 players to become part of rotation. Thought he got lucky with Brogdon but he looked like a YMCA unc last night.
Yeah, that seems pretty accurate though I’ll note Dadiet’s 6’9″ wingspan is disappointing for a 6’9″ player. He’s still lanky enough to offset that.
And frankly Obi isn’t, either. He’s an elite jumper and he glides like a gazelle but his lateral mobility is way below average.
I think Leon’s strategy is pretty clear, at least when he’s drafting in the top 40: he wants older players bc he thinks they ready to contribute immediately. You can see this even in the guys he didn’t take (remember when he was lusting after Duarte?). That’s why Dadiet was such a weird pick, and likely only taken because of the money.
You can also see athleticism isn’t a priority when you look at the players he didn’t draft. Kyshawn George, for instance, is a great guy to take if you’re just drafting athletes and hoping they figure out.
Most glaring instance, though, has to be taking Kolek over Collier. That gulf in athleticism is wide.
We all know that OKC was gifted this championship, like the 2019 Raptors before them. But they DID push a healthy Pacers team to a game 7 which means they are an amazing basketball team in their own right and a repeat should be considered the default setting until Tyrese wrestles his starting job back from Benny.
You figure they took Kolek because he was a more “win now” kind of player, a 23 year old who, if he stuck, would be able to contribute soon. Collier, 20 years old and raw, was probably 2-3 years away best case.
Of course, as it turns out, Kolek probably can’t really play in the NBA at all, while Collier still has lottery-scratch-off material that hasn’t been scratched yet. One guy is still a prospect and one guy isn’t.
The Jazz were dreadful so they were able to give Collier lots of developmental minutes, which of course should help his career. If we had drafted Collier, he never would have played. Not last year, not this year, not next year. For the same reasons, I don’t expect Pacome Dadiet to ever play a meaningful minute here. We’re all in on win-now mode and aren’t devoting any resources to developing raw young kids. He’s not gonna hang around the back end of the roster and then develop into a useful piece at like age 23 or whatever three years from now. He’ll be long gone by then. That is just not our steez.
Nobody was a better 12th man than Lavor Postell.
OKC flirted with 70 wins (29:1 vs EC tells me that they could have been the best regular season team in history of the league if they were in the East). They also had the best rated defense in the history of the league. This is the most complete team since the Steph/KD Warriors. I think they have a realistic shot of winning multiple championships and they will flirt with 70 wins again this season.
I was just suggesting that Kolek over Collier is a counter to the argument that Leon’s strategy is to draft elite athletes and hope they figure it out.
Yeah, doesn’t look like either of Kolek or Dadiet are in the long-term plans. But if young players actually show something they have a shot to stick…Huk is a good example. Maybe Diawara as well. And the 2-way route sometimes works.
In any case, I don’t think that makes those guys bad picks…alas, some guys develop quickly, some don’t.
I don’t doubt that OKC is going to dominate the regular season again but Jokic almost beat them with a lineup full of injured teammates and a coach who just got the job two weeks before the series started.
Winning back-to-back is really hard, and I just don’t think they have it in them yet. This year I’m backing the all time player over the all time team.
OKC still has some players who should improve because of age alone, notably Chet who will still be only 23 and Jalen Williams who will be turning 24. They’re also adding Nicola Topic at some point this season, one of the more talented prospects in the 2024 draft. The whole team also now has deep playoff experience. They’ll keep winning the title until San Antonio puts enough talent around Wemby.
Just to be clear, I am rooting hard for Kolek and truly hope he turns the corner. He is very likeable and would be a great feel-good story.
One thing I worry about Yabusele is that playing Eurobasket this summer took a lot out of him. I’ve forgotten who it was, but I remember reading that one good NBA player skipped Eurobasket this summer because he wanted to be rested and practiced for the NBA season.