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Knicks Morning News (2025.08.20)
08/20/2025 11:00:02
08/20/2025 11:00:02
08/20/2025 10:57:37
08/20/2025 10:00:09
08/20/2025 06:02:35
08/20/2025 02:42:00
08/20/2025 01:46:00
08/20/2025 02:23:00
08/19/2025 22:49:08
49 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2025.08.20)”
Funny thought just occurred to me about my day yesterday on this “NYC but we fawkin staying in gattdamn Bayonne NJ trip”..
Decided to drive all day yesterday and I did not expect to drive in NY just to get to other spots in this part of Jersey. I mean I paid so much in tolls and drove through Staten so much yesterday that I thought I was an honorary member of Wu Tang. I became Method To My Madness Man š¤¦š¾āāļø. So much so that I started rappin Mef’s verse to Conway the Machine’s Lemon. LOL
Anywho..check out at the BnB is at 10, so we’re getting ready to head back to the state shaped like a blicky lol..and again…
I’m tired boss
True but I think Josh Hart has quietly become a weak defender, too, especially when weāre matched up against bigger teams. Heās still got a great brain and knows where to go but heās become a step too slow.
Deuce is overrated as a defender IMO bc of how judiciously Thibs used him. Put him in the starting lineup every day and the warts will present themselves.
I know you were advocating for Mitch but I donāt think he can be the answer simply bc he isnāt reliable. Whether itās injury or FTās, he canāt stay on the court and itās unwise to count on him to.
Iām not confident Yabu is the answer, but I do believe he needs to be. If he isnāt, and if we donāt make a trade to find someone who is, our ceiling will be short of the title even in this wide open season.
Here is the man we’ve been talking about.
That’s such a great verse
Saw Weapons last night. It didn’t have anything profound to say about Our Society, IMO (I’m sure others can find something if they dig deeply enough), but I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Two hours of good, at times scary, fun. I’m all for movies that make some kind of a statement, but I also find making a good movie that has more to say about its own fictional characters than anything or anyone real to be a bit of a lost art.
Hart will have his limitations against wings with size, but we’ve got better options for those guys anyway and he still can’t be exploited the way Yabu can against basically any player with some mobility. I think constructing a top-10 defense that starts both KAT and Yabu is downright impossible. Neither can deter much at the rim, and while they’re both survivable on switches you really only want to task them with that if you have another rim protector on the floor.
I’m all for giving them some run together in true 5-out lineups because, contra Thibodeau Thought, there are only so many teams that can truly exploit it, and sometimes you’ll simply score too much to care about defense. But I don’t think it’s a tenable starting look for a contender.
Counting on Mitch doesn’t strike me as tenable, either.
Consistently playing Deuce with Brunson and KAT strikes me as the worst choice of the bunch.
And the limitations of last year’s starting 5 are pretty clearly defined at this point.
I’ll admit I probably like Yabu the best because I haven’t seen his limitations up close. But I think with him, even though you might not get a top 10 defense, you might get a top 1 offense. In a year like this, that might be enough.
I personally like best offense coupled with 15th best defense (which strikes me as attainable with Yabu) more than I like 6th best offense coupled with 8th best defense (which is what I think we’re going for with Mitch).
I just think you need a defensive big (ideally with rim protection) next to Towns for at least 2/3rds of the game, and Mitch is our best (only?) option for that.
Would it be better if this 2nd big could also score the basketball? Of course! But those guys arenāt readily available and even if they were, we couldnāt afford them.
We rip on him here, but Achiuwa was actually semi-decent for the price. I suppose theyāre betting that Hukporti has a higher ceiling, and he probably does. I hope we get to see him carve out a solid role this year.
One unasked question in this discussion is whether Huk is a good enough backup to cover for Mitch if/when he gets nicked up. I actually think he is, and if Mitch is out, I would have no problem with starting him instead, for all the same reasons.
I am less concerned about having a 5-out lineup to start games than I am about having the option to play one. There really aren’t many teams who run a starting 5-out lineup to start the game at the cost of defense. If you have a guy like Chet or Mobley (or Turner or KP) it’s more feasable, but KAT’s lack of rim protection on top of Brunson’s defensive issues make it a suboptimal option for us. And CLE and OKC both start 2 bigs even with the 5-out option. OKC went to 5-out for the first two games of the finals but went right back to starting iHart.
If anything, the top teams across the league all have a legit rim protector in their starting lineup. That seems to be a must. imho OG does not qualify.
I agee with all that, but imo the goal for bench players is to be above average on one side even if they are below average on the other. The latter is why they are on the bench. If there’s something a player is very good at, you can still build a reasonably productive bench lineup by adding in others with that strength to offset his weakness. But if a guy is a weak defender and either can’t score or scores inefficiently on volume, imo that’s a negative player. That’s why I am OK with guys like Wright or Shamet. I can do something with players like that even if they are end of the bench players. They have one side skills.
Since we are talking about Yabu, I think he may be a key to our season.
Precious had his moments on defense and with hustle, but I wouldn’t call him an overall plus defender. When you combine that with his weak offense and lack of spacing, that was a major problem.
I feel confident Yabu will upgrade the offense, but if he winds up being worse on defense than Precious it WILL create some issues given our other defensive deficiencies. If Yabu can defend as well as Precious, he’ll probably add a couple of wins. If he can actually defend at a mildly plus level, he’s going to add quite a few wins.
A lot depends on him and having Mitch for a full season instead of handful of in shape games.
“If anything, the top teams across the league all have a legit rim protector in their starting lineup.”
I suppose Denver is an exception, but Jokic is sort of unique…and KAT is not Jokic.
also not sure that denver is still a “top team” anyway
or maybe it is
“I agee with all that, but imo the goal for bench players is to be above average on one side even if they are below average on the other. The latter is why they are on the bench.”
This is a very superficial take on bench players.
First, bench players vary both with the team in question and with the place in the pecking order on the bench of that team. There’s an enormous gulf between the 6th man on a contender and the 9th man on a lottery team. The former might be a starter on many teams, the latter wouldn’t get off the bench on many teams.
Second, there are all kinds of reasons why guys from, say on average 4th through 7th in the pecking order, either start or come off the bench. It’s not just about one side of the ball or the other. It’s about fit with a given set of teammates in a given system.
Now as you move down the rotation to the 8th and 9th spots, one would expect that those players would have flaws, but the nature of those flaws might not fit neatly under the heading “above average on one side, below average on the other side”. Some players are pretty good at certain things on both sides but also pretty bad at certain things on both sides of the ball. The “value” (positive or negative) of those skills varies situationally.
I think Manu is still my favorite non-Knick of the last 30 yearsā¦.
https://x.com/statmuse/status/1958199348832952659?s=46&t=0wqff4cNt-sCGcDs-uMExw
We know, Owen.
Facts
I still can’t believe I actually read these statements. Shai is the epitome of unexciting basketball? So easy and effortless?
Sorry if this comes across as insulting, guys, but this comes off to me as homerism at its most extreme.
Here’s a SGA mix from 2025
Here’s a Brunson mix from 2025
I would find it hard to believe that any non-diehard Brunson stan would conclude that SGA makes what he does look any easier or less exciting than what Brunson does. They are doing the Same. Exact. Stuff.
If you want to say that Shai is better at that same exact stuff because he’s 4″ taller, sure. But there’s no doubt that he’s better at virtually everything except 3pt shooting and assists, and even those things are super-close. And that’s just on the offensive end.
It’s one thing to have a preference…but the reasons given above are nonsense. If SGA isn’t exciting, neither is LeBron, or was MJ. I guess maybe he needs to be more of an asshole or attention hound to resonate with fans.
I love watching Brunson’s footwork in the paint and his counters, to free up space to make shots. I actually a lot of times find it effortless when he’s doing it because he does it so often. But then he also does make a lot of crazy and ones, etc.
“I love watching Brunsonās footwork in the paint and his counters, to free up space to make shots. I actually a lot of times find it effortless when heās doing it because he does it so often. But then he also does make a lot of crazy and ones, etc.”
So do I, swifty! Just to be clear, my post was not to bash Brunson, I absolutely love watching the guy and am thrilled he’s on our team. It is more about how SGA is being dissed, in my view, very unfairly. His footwork and counters are equally unbelievable. On top of that, he will dunk on folks in traffic and block shots at the rim.
the nuggets pushed the thunder as hard as anyone last playoffs…jokic is just such a cheat code, like a bigger, even slower magic johnson…he can do anything…plus they had(?) to fire their coach right before the playoffs…
and joker’s really not even that bad a defender…with a healthy aaron gordan the nuggets probably win that series, maybe the championship…
I like their team to make a run again next season…
Its annoying to think that if Jokic doesn’t win another title there will be future kids who will downplay his greatness because “he only has one ring.”
I think when he retires he’s easily in the top 5 GOAT convo.
Z-Man, sorry but I think you’re misinterpreting what I was trying to say. I’m talking about entertainment, not skill level. I’m not saying Brunson is better, and I’m not saying what Shai does isn’t exciting. I very carefully said neither of those things, both of which you just straw horse whipped.
If I had to start a team and they were my two choices for PG, I take Shai every day and Sunday.
I just happen to find watching a short, chubby-looking geeky character turning red in the face while doing the impossible against taller guys who also all seem much more athletic than he is more entertaining than a smooth operator piling up points. Note that I use the word MORE entertaining. Because Shai is endlessly entertaining.
Again, there’s zero diss on SGA there. And YMMV.
mmdnv
My god this Cowboys documentary on Netflix is awesome. And I hate the Cowboys.
for some reason some months ago was trying to fit KD in to the all time best players, looked over some of the nba all-time player lists…KD doesn’t even make the top 10…
just to be one of the top 5 best centers ever he needs to boot one of these guys off the list:
– kareem
– russell
– wilt
– shaq
– hakeem
joker may end up some where around 20, may be…
Dunno, Geo, if Jokic keeps playing at this level for another 5 years I think it’s pretty easy to push a couple guys off that list. I’d put him 4th, over Shaq and Hakeem. 5 years more than that, and he might nudge another guy or two… Hard to say, they’re all so amazing. Wish I had seen Wilt and Russell live. Did see Kareem, who was great even as an old man.
But no, Durant is hardly top 20, even if he finishes strong the next couple years. So many better players.
I mean, loved both of those players in their prime and I think Shaq’s playoff run in 2001 might be the most dominant playoff run of any player ever.
But I think people reflexively put these guys ahead of Jokic because Shaq has 4 rings and Hakeem has 2.
Ultimately, I think the ring argument is a little hollow. Like I think it’s ok to maybe ding a player for never getting a ring and especially if they never made the finals. But if a guy gets at least one, I think saying they aren’t as GOAT as others who won multiple rings gets a little suspect.
Top 5 might be too generous but I think Jokic belongs in the top 10.
Jordan, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Lebron, Russell, Curry, Shaq, Wilt….
After that, it’s hard for me to pick guys better than him? Duncan, Kobe, Dirk, Malone, Dr. J….Barkley, Pippen. These are all great players who are in that next range but I think Jokic is better than all of them.
better than steph curry?
“Z-Man, sorry but I think youāre misinterpreting what I was trying to say. Iām talking about entertainment, not skill level.”
No I’m not. I am talking strictly about entertainment.
“I just happen to find watching a short, chubby-looking geeky character turning red in the face while doing the impossible against taller guys who also all seem much more athletic than he is more entertaining than a smooth operator piling up points. Note that I use the word MORE entertaining. Because Shai is endlessly entertaining.”
Wait, you’re saying that Brunson is more entertaining in a “freak show” kind of way? Honestly, that’s kind of insulting to him! Because if you watch the highlights, you’d clearly see that he is just as much of a “smooth operator” as Shai.
What you seem to be missing is the diss is in calling SGA a “smooth operator piling up points…who makes something so hard look so easy and effortless.” My entire point is that there is nothing more “easy and effortless” about what SGA does than what Brunson does. Both guys pile up points making the exact same moves, with the same level of effort! If anything, one would expect the shorter guy to be that shifty out of necessity, and yet SGA can do all the shifty stuff that little guys do, only better! Even against guys who are much bigger and more athletic than him! To me, that makes him the actual “freak.”
In any case, I’m glad that you acknowledge that whatever additional entertainment value anyone gets out of watching Brunson make the same moves with less success than SGA, it comes at a huge cost on both ends. One has a BPM of 11.5, the other 3.3. And according to DEPM, one is one of the best defensive guards in the NBA, the other is one of the worst.
In my book, there are only a few players in the history of the game more “exciting” to watch game in game out than Shai. And as much as I love him, Brunson is not all that close to being one of them.
But he’s ours! Go Jalen! Fuck SGA!
Are you saying that he has bad taste? Cuz there’s a lot about Jalen that’s real uniquely identifiable that makes mere mortals feel real connected to the magic of the NBA. Shai is my choice of who’d I’d want to be tuning in to but alas, we didn’t fucking pick him.
But does Jalen ever wish he’d be more athletic? š
https://x.com/nyknicks/status/1958213799263019232
“Are you saying that he has bad taste?”
No, just biased.
“thereās a lot about Jalen thatās real uniquely identifiable that makes mere mortals feel real connected to the magic of the NBA.”
Is there? I mean, maybe he looks stubby or chunky or whatever but it’s sort of an illusion. Brunson is 6’2″ and in incredible shape, not some kind of physical outlier. There are a lot of 6’2-ish” PGs with shortish arms and limited verticals who are (or recently were) really freaking good!
Steph
CP3
Kyrie
Lowry
FVV
Trae
Conley
Dame
All of these guys are really exciting in their own rights, and I’m sure many of their fans are (or have been) biased towards them as well.
cyber, that’s funny!
come on Z-man. Do you prefer 90 Knicks ball or the current iteration more. which is more exciting to you. Wins aside. There’s no wrong answer. The nature of the question relies on bias. I happen to agree with you, and find the power of the bias to be interesting coming from such intelligent people, but if the Knicks play the Thunder in the finals Shai can suck a bag of dicks for all I care.
Here’s what I’ll say about Brunson in his defense. He was passed over in the draft largely because of the assumption that he was physically limited. The only other guy on that list I’d say is in that category is FVV, and to a lesser degree, Lowry. Everyone else on that list was drafted in the top 6. So I would agree that the “unheralded underrated player makes good” element is certainly endearing. But I don’t think it objectively means all that much in terms of how “exciting” a player is to watch.
“come on Z-man. Do you prefer 90 Knicks ball or the current iteration more. which is more exciting to you. Wins aside. Thereās no wrong answer.”
There’s no wrong answer, just dubious reasons for having bias towards an answer. I mean, I get more excitement about watching my kid play travel and college volleyball than I ever got out of watching Brunson or SGA. But I would never try to argue that my kid was the more exciting player because those guys “made it look easy.”
But you just did. Because they’re your kid. Clearly your kid is fam so totally exciting but, until they don the orange and blue at msg they’re just Z-man’s kid to me and that’s more than most kids (may they prosper) but they still ain’t Brunson.
“But you just did.”
No I didn’t but whatever.
Behind Jordan, Kareem, and LeBron, spots 4-14 can be pit on random shuffle and whatever it spits out would be arguable. If you told be Jokic was #5, Iād say Curry would have to he #4 because they have dominated in the same era but Curry ushered it in and has won just so much more.
rockies over dodgers 8-1 mlb is weird
whatever is right….
TOP 15 MOST POPULAR JERSEYS
1. Luka DonÄiÄ (Los Angeles Lakers)
2. Stephen Curry (Golden State Warriors)
3. LeBron James (Los Angeles Lakers
4. Jayson Tatum (Boston Celtics)
5. Jalen Brunson (New York Knicks)
6. Victor Wembanyama (San Antonio Spurs)
7. Anthony Edwards (Minnesota Timberwolves)
8. Ja Morant (Memphis Grizzlies)
9. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (Oklahoma City Thunder)
10. Nikola JokiÄ (Denver Nuggets)
11. Giannis Antetokounmpo (Milwaukee Bucks)
12. LaMelo Ball (Charlotte Hornets)
13. Kevin Durant (Phoenix Suns)
14. Devin Booker (Phoenix Suns)
15. Jaylen Brown (Boston Celtics)
Mike, I know Z-man had some issues getting on the site, and over the last few days I have as well. Just letting you know in case it’s a harbinger of bigger issues.
great job pulling that all together clarence werk
lead guards according to the athletic bounce
1 sga
2 doncic
3 curry
4 brunson
5 hali
6 ja
7 kyrie
8 cade
9 trae
10 harden
Bless. I’m sorry I ate your fish, Knicks 2025.
Aldridge is ranking the best team off-seasons in the Athletic, and it’s a pretty terrible analysis. But worth reading to come upon players like this:
New Bulls player. Pretty solid name.
can you explain what you mean by the fish thing clarence i dont understand it
Oh I donāt know. Iām up late staring at words on a deadline and thoughts are elusive. But you better WERK!
thats pretty funny that you dont know either that makes two of us i could very well also be working right now but this is one night that im not just trying to get ahead of some things and then heading to bed