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Knicks Morning News (2025.08.13)
08/13/2025 11:00:01
08/13/2025 11:00:02
08/13/2025 10:00:00
08/13/2025 10:00:00
08/13/2025 09:00:00
08/13/2025 04:59:44
08/13/2025 03:44:00
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08/13/2025 00:05:01
08/12/2025 23:58:57
08/13/2025 00:36:00
69 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2025.08.13)”
Found this interesting tidbit about Chris Jent on the web:
I know a couple of ex-Villanova wings that would surely benefit from a “shot doctor”.
It seems like we have room to sign one vet min salary. In terms of keeping someone from last year, I’ve been hearing Landry Shamet’s name a lot and very little about Cam Payne. Is that just due to age and playoffs performance? Cam had pretty good production overall during the regular season and seemed to be universally liked in the locker room. He definitely had his moments of frustration and questioning why he was out on the floor, but I’m surprised there’s nothing about him given that he grew on me over the season.
My guess would be the playoff performance plus Cam getting demoted in favor of Clarkson as the backup PG. Maybe Cam thinks he can get more playing time elsewhere.
It’s also possible the brass has faith in Kolek or Deuce to handle PG duties if Clarkson is washed. I do think PG will be deemphasized under Brown’s system and Deuce should be able to handle bringing the ball up and passing into the pinch post.
Personally, I’m worried about PG and would take Payne.
wonder what Chris Jent thinks of Cam’s shooting form.
If Leon hadn’t gotten us a steal in Jordan Clarkson, I’d be all for bringing Shamet back. He definitely outperformed my expectations last season. But if we’re gonna add a vet min guy from outside, then I think it needs to be someone with size and versatility. Amir Coffey or Ben Simmons would fit. I know folks are down on Simmons, but he would free Clarkson and Deuce up to do what they are best at at all times with that 2nd unit. I think we have the environment to get something out of him- especially with our recent coaching staff hires. Sure- it would stretch the rotation to 10 guys most nights and require some starters to play less, but that’s a refreshing change of pace from last season. This is definitely the season to take your home run swing and catch the league off balance.
Interesting take on Simmons and I definitely see your point re: freeing up Deuce and Clarkson.
I go back and forth on it though. Shamet is a known commodity, is a great shooter (and great off the catch) and is a pretty decent defender. He showed he can give good minutes in the ECF. Can Simmons do the same? I just don’t know.
Shamet would bring instant chemistry. Shamet might also allow Kolek more opportunities (haven’t given up on him yet!). With a new coach, new offensive system…it might be nice to bring back another known commodity who already has chemistry with the existing core.
I worry about Simmons and the chemistry too. Like if he gets very little PT, is he gonna pout or be a diva about it?
I thought Payne returned value on his minimum deal last season and particularly appreciated his impact on our 3PAr (0.37 with him off, 0.41 with him on). He did become unplayable in the playoffs, but that’s going to be true of the overwhelming majority of minimum signings and he even arguably snagged us game 1 against Detroit.
All that said, I’m hoping Brown implements a system that obviates our desperate need for someone to come in the game and chuck them up, and that Clarkson and Yabu’s playmaking can make up for losing Payne in that regard. So while I remain Payne sympathetic, I’d rather shore up positions where we have less depth.
Jordan Clarkson is a far, far superior basketball player to Cam Payne. There is literally nothing that Cam Payne does that Clarkson can’t do better, including playing PG. Y’all will become believers in short order.
Beyond the hyperbole, what I’m really saying is don’t waste a roster spot on a duplicative player. Shamet is a decent volume 3pt shooter, so even though he’s undersized, that would be a better way to go. Obviously Simmons or Brogdan would be better than either of them.
Regarding pre-season, I like that our first 2 games are overseas, then the rest at MSG. Trip will be a nice low-key way for coaching staff and team to bond. Assume Embiid is not flying to Abu Dhabi which allows us to play Mitch a bit…
Cam is a better 3 point shooter but overall, Z-Man, I believe you’re correct about Clarkson vs. Cam.
Yeah, I concur with the conclusion that Clarkson is more likely to help us win meaningful games than Payne, but the fact that Payne is the better shooter and more willing playmaker is not nothing. Payne really did give us injections we needed off the bench last season, which may have said more about the offense (or lack thereof) the starters ran than Payne himself.
It’ll be on Brown and co. to implement a system that enables the Clarkson/Payne tradeoff to workout in our favor. I think it’s doable because I think Clarkson is the better overall player all things considered, but it will require serious changes to the way our offense ran last season.
I’m wondering if the delay in filling the last two roster spots is at least partially because they want to have a full coaching staff and a full discussion before they finalize those decisions
lmao
This is like saying measles are worse than chickenpox.
I’m not even sure what you are saying is true. It’s an assertion.
The Knicks were much better with Payne on the floor last year. Obviously, some of that has to do with lineups, but he added value in the role he had. Clarkson hasn’t added value in years and is older than when he did. We are betting that he will remain healthy and get back to his low basketball IQ peak even though he’s older. Neither is a PG or particularly high IQ player, but Payne is more of a PG.
I think the worry is just the opposite… he’s going to earn too much time and alienate Hart.
Simmons is an elite ball handler, passer, rebounder and defender with incredible size and length. He can’t shoot the ball an ounce and is frightened to go to the line. Hart doesn’t shoot the ball well (obviously a lot better than Simmons) but is so hesitant to shoot he gums up the offense and doesn’t play the defensive end as well as Simmons.
One thing Simmons can really help Brunson with is bringing the ball up the floor and initiating the offense. How many bumps and bruises did Brunson take 38 minutes a game getting the ball across half court? Just being released from that task some of the time has to be a big plus for Brunson’s offense cumulatively over the season. It’s hard to employ the Lester Hayes defense to a 6’10” 240 pounder.
And of course on nights where Donavan Mitchell or Devin Booker is going nuclear, it would be nice to have a guy who might obstruct those guys a little bit.
It’s a pretty slick risk/reward if he is interested.
BPL, that worry about Simmons is sort of like: if we have too many good players, egos may be hurt and team chemistry could suffer. It’s a real worry; but, on the other hand, you obviously want depth on the team. Coaches are expected to manage egos to some degree, but they can only do so much. I guess it’s up to Brown whether he can handle that
Also found on the internet…
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45949758/new-york-knicks-msg-banned-list-james-dolan
If Simmons turns out to be so good that he seriously cuts into Hart’s PT, then the signing of Simmons would be a huge success.
I’m not worried about that at all.
If Simmons wanted to come here, wouldn’t he have signed by now?
Chris Jenks might quit if Simmons comes on board.
How do you fix a shot that’s never taken?
at least wed still have chris jent doe its not necessarily true that if simmons wanted to join the knicks he wouldve signed by now maybe the knicks arent ready to extend an offer just yet
Yeah. And sometimes there are oral agreements that postpone the actual signings. For example, the Knicks probably told Diawara that they would make an offer but that they weren’t decided if it would be a two way contract or a rookie minimum. So Diawara can count on being in the US and told his European club he wouldn’t be back but isn’t actually signed yet
I feel like this is a lyric stolen from an ’80s power ballad
“Yeah. And sometimes there are oral agreements that postpone the actual signings.”
Can easily see both vets knowing “if we can’t sign A, we sign you” and happy to wait. Assume “you”‘s agent also has a similar back up plan.
“We are betting that he will remain healthy and get back to his low basketball IQ peak even though he’s older.”
strat, I don’t get why you keep repeating that Clarkson is a low-IQ player, it’s just not true. He’s been playing on a tanking team with no structure other than “do whatever you want.” In a more structured role on a contender, he will be plenty smart enough, just like he was with Utah, especially in the playoffs.
I don’t get any issues with his age. He just turned 33, not 38. He doesn’t have an injury history to worry about. He doesn’t rely all that much on elite athleticism to do his thing. He had a plantar fascia issue that affected him last year, hardly a career killer. Really, it’s silly to worry about it on a minimum deal.
He is not a good defender, but neither is Payne…or Brunson for that matter. Nor was Derrick Rose when he gave us a huge spark in the We Here season. But he is an elite shot creator and ball handler and passes well enough to play backup scoring PG…in fact, he might wind up being one of the best players in the league in that role.
His 3pt shooting is not a problem per se, it’s more about shot selection. No one is going to leave him open the way they leave Josh Hart open. Payne shoots better because he is more selective. If you look at their corner 3 percentage, Clarkson is better than Payne.
Thing about Simmons is that he is 6″ taller than Hart, so he can do stuff in the paint in the halfcourt that Hart can’t.
Yes, like back a man down to within one foot of the basket and then decide to pass out instead of take the easy shot he doesn’t believe he can make.
My other fear with Simmons is that his versatility will become something Brown would rely on during the regular season but then he’d be unplayable in the playoffs and that would hurt us.
Like when Cam Payne became unplayable it wasn’t like we were all freaking out thinking “oh no we can’t win any more playoff games because Cam is unplayable.” But I worry that Simmons versatility and attractive parts of his game would become something we over rely on and then not be able to use in the playoffs.
That would be a defect of Brown’s. Not Simmons. I don’t know if there’s something out there that should make us suspect this.
Simmons on the vet min is an incredible value if he can produce anything. Taking mileage off the main fleet should be a prime concern. If he can take do anything like push Brunson off ball because he’s reliably good during the regular season then the scratch off just bought a weekend in Vegas.
Shortening the rotation in the playoffs and losing your vet mins contributions can’t be the straw.
Until very recently I worked at The Legal Aid Society, which is technically one of the largest law firms in the country. I worked in a unit that couldn’t have feasibly found itself in litigation against an MSG property, but all it would’ve taken for me to get banned was, say, someone being unjustly fired from MSG and being represented by Legal Aid’s employment law unit in the ensuing lawsuit (the article references a security guard who was fired for not recognizing Dolan, for example), a lawsuit I would’ve had nothing to do with being litigated by an attorney I almost certainly would never have met. I’m honestly surprised it didn’t happen during my 3 years there.
Suffice to say, ridiculous, indefensible policy.
This Mike Breen bashing and low IQ term is annoying me a little now. It takes brilliant genius level intelligence to survive and thrive in a hot mess type situation with no structure where everyone is doing whatever they feel like on that day.
How many people are put into a poor environment and loser type situation for over a decade and walk away with $176m in career earnings?
“It takes brilliant genius level intelligence to survive and thrive in a hot mess”
Perhaps, but brilliant genius level intelligence like that of a weasel, perhaps. Trust me, weasels would likely do very well in a hot mess type situation. But would that weasel be any good as your new comptroller?
I actually am really looking forward to the Jordan Clarkson Era. It is very likely to be filled with endless hot takes and (speaking of weasels) any number of attempts to walk back various hot takes without admitting being wrong. While not a Clarkson fan, I have zero actual sense of what this Era is going to be like, and very excited (sic) to find out.
why sic
The value we really need from a vet is a PJ Tucker type watch DAWG that may be able to lace them for a 4-6 minute stint a few times a season, if need be due to injuries.
I want no part of Simmons mental weakness on our team during playoffs. Trae Young and Doc Rivers/Embiid either ruined him or exposed his mental flaw.
That may be fair and a valid character flaw criticism. But it has nothing to do with his GPU inference velocity or capacity to store information aka basketball IQ.
I’m only just beginning to get a feel for the culture of a Mike Brown team. My opinion is still ill informed. If we go into this year and have to spend a roster spot on a guy to fix the culture we might as well be thinking about the next iteration of the the team. These guys are professionals and a their coach got fired immediately after his performance tallied. This is very much a show it season. As Z-man and Hubert have suggested (I think correctly) the window is now.
You might be right that a dawg would be useful. I don’t remember how that dawg played in last years playoffs.
i got a feeling if we all start an animal analogy thing – you are going to win…
Pop Quiz Raven – without looking it up, what’s the name of the world’s largest organism?
It’s not about on the floor contributions from a 10th man or team culture. Those come from best player and head coach. It’s about courage and grit.
Both Josh Hart and Jalen Brunson who have two of the NBA’s biggest killer mentalities went out of their way to shout out PJ Tucker for getting them ready for battle.
Modern basketball strategies and KPIs go out the window during a legit playoff battle like we had against Detroit where they only called 1 out of every 3 actual fouls committed.
“Shout-out to P.J. Tucker for making sure we’re up and talking,” Josh Hart said after Game 4 (against Boston). “He brought that championship pedigree to us. He deserves a big shout-out. He’s just someone that always talks to us. He’s a champion and he’s bringing that mentality.”
Brunson said pretty much the same thing after he hit the series winning three against Detroit. He just gave the props to both Rick and TJ.
My two cents.
Bonus question Raven: do Zombies exist?
Hopefully going to the ECF, beating Detroit in a hard fought series, beating Boston, losing to the pacers the way they did…will have given this team all the experience/motivation they need and they won’t need a PJ Tucker type on the bench. I don’t discount the value of having that kind of a guy but hopefully we don’t need them this season.
You might be right, Director… the players shouting out the addition of PJ Tucker could also signify a systemic inefficiency being addressed that should never have required a late season pickup.
I’m a pretty agnostic nihilist motherfucker when all is said and done, but I think the money move (if available) is the guy who can help us endure injuries and actually contribute on the court and possibly outplay his contract. Hire PJ Tucker as a coach. If you need someone to talk tough don’t waste a playing roster spot for it.
unintelligent questions
First of all, Clarence, that you can write prose poetry about mustelids has warmed my heart.
Geo, without looking it up I’ll get it wrong. My default goes to either some massive fungus, or those giant groves of aspens.
And yes, there are indeed zombies, but they’re mostly in the insect world. Too disturbing to go into here. You can google it if you want to be utterly grossed out.
There might really be zombies ( people deliberately poisoned near death into a zombie lie state)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6668953/
hey KfniNJ, it’s the premise for the game/show: the last of us…fungus that’ll infect the host to do it’s bidding…
currently confined to those unworthy (raven’s words not mine) insect type creatures: ants, and fungus…
and, the answer to today’s trivia question: the humongous fungus…
Hey, I never used the word ‘unworthy.’ Nor would I. Well I would, but only about humans of one sort or another.
“The ingredients, preparation and method of application are presented.”
You can’t put the cap back on to progress, I guess…
wowsers
Animals with late-stage rabies are like zombies. Was chased once by a rabid skunk, and it was scary af. Fortunately, skunks are pretty slow.
ugh, you got this stuck in my head a while ago ess-dog – instrumental music…
had me wondering what the most iconic instrumental song was…iconic in my mind being mostly something which is personal…
the first instrumental song that really stuck with me was emerson, lake and palmer’s peter gunn theme…
over time my fave version of the tune is from the ed sullivan show…just love the horns and the super tight fit into such a small place for the whole band…
can just imagine being in the area and feeling all that music going through you…
You can meet zombies at any time of day if you wander around the 3rd Street Promenade in Santa Monica. They will grope you and try to eat your brains and everything. Full zombie experience for just the price of parking!
Eric Burdon sang like he had late-stage rabies, but I still like the Animals more than the Zombies. Both were good bands though.
Jacob Elordi as Frankenstein. Now that’s my kind of zombie.
When we signed Payne last year, I was not thrilled. I was pretty much on an island. I said what we can expect is that he’ll have some games where he’ll get hot, win the game for us and we’ll be over top happy with him, but he’ll also have games where he takes terrible shots, potentially shoots us out of games and we’ll grow extremely frustrated with him. The net of all it will not be very efficient.
I also said that IMO he’s not a PG.
That latter point was probably just definitional.
To me a PG is a guy that controls the offense, directs players, drives to spots with purpose and is thinking in term of finding the best possible shot. A PG makes the players around him better. Kolek is a PG. Payne is a scorer that gets assists because he controls the ball a lot.
All that said, he grew on me despite what I think was a fairly accurate appraisal. He’s a very likable guy.
Peak Clarkson does most of what Payne can do better, but the “net is not very efficient” comes in greater volumes. He’s better at creating and taking shots I don’t necessarily want him taking. He’s going to have the same hot nights we’ll celebrate and take the similar idiotic shots that lose games for us.
What I think we really need as a backup PG is a guy that can run the offense, make good passes, score more efficiently on “whatever” volume and defend a bit. I’d rather have Simmons or Wright as the backup PG.
We probably also do need a higher volume scorer like Clarkson, but imo we need one with better shot selection and efficiency than I think we will get from him. I don’t really want another high volume inefficient combo guard running the offense.
Maybe I’ll come around with him like I did with Payne. We’ll see. That’s just the bug up my ass right now. I was hoping Kolek would break out, but he didn’t.
Geo: Can you guess what was the only instrumental song to get banned in U.S. history?
jacob rumble elordi what
“All that said, he grew on me despite what I think was a fairly accurate appraisal.”
Um, Payne was what nearly all of us thought he was, a pretty average minimum deal backup who was never really worth anything more than that. He never earned more than $6M a year and never deserved to. He topped out at 1,300 minutes. He sucked in the playoffs, but was actually pretty good in his two playoff appearances before that, including for Philly against us, where he had a major impact off the bench.
Jordan Clarkson hasn’t made less than $11M in 10 years. He won a Sixth Man of the Year award and was in the top 7 two other times. There is no comparison between his skillset and Payne’s. You said this:
“We probably also do need a higher volume scorer like Clarkson, but imo we need one with better shot selection and efficiency than I think we will get from him.”
Well, where the fuck are you going to find one of those for less than $10M a year?
As far as him losing games for us, that would be on Brown, not Clarkson. Are you assuming that he is going to tune out Mike Brown and just chuck away? Or that Mike Brown is going to actually encourage him chuck away? Or that he’s too dumb to do what the coach wants him to do even if he tries? Or that all of that doesn’t matter because he’s too washed up to do what he should do no matter how hard he tries?
If there weren’t question marks about him, he would not have been available at the minimum. Because just about everyone else available to the Knicks at that price was either surely worse or had a much lower ceiling.
What’s hilarious is that you wanted to “gamble” on a novice head coach but seem skittish about gambling a minimum salary slot on a fairly highly regarded player like Clarkson that most smart folks know is worth double that at the very least.
“I’d rather have Simmons or Wright as the backup PG.”
Agree on Simmons, although he has actually more downside than Clarkson! And Wright? He’s a garden-variety scrub. Why do you think that no one is picking him up, perhaps for a bit more than the minimum? It ain’t because he was bought out, I’ll tell you that. Same with Payne and Shamet.
The only reason we got Clarkson is because he wants to play for a contender. I have zero doubt that if Leon didn’t pounce on him, he would have been a hot commodity at the minimum.
i’d guess some country’s anthem maybe…at some point in time, maybe the British one…
Edit: was wrong, some early rock n roll thing…good one ess-dog…
oh yeah, just listened, think it was used in pulp fuction…
It is a legitimate crime against humanity that this is allowed to exist in such a bounteous country. https://youtu.be/9XHoBsNgKm8
I’m scared bob 😱
too scared to even click on the link…like when someone tries to describe some nefarious odor, and wishes for you to also share in the experience, for your: enlightenment?
here try this it tastes awful
Well, considering that mother’s little helper was the prescription for child rearing moms from the greatest generation until gen -x(anax) took over, it’s no wonder that entire swaths of under educated-under served-unlucky children/folks are just getting caught up in the street version of the more fashionable pharmacy fads. Style trickles down.
It is reality, Geo and at some point we are going to have to deal with it head on. It is an inhumane position to completely ignore the suffering of a large percentage of our citizenry.
We need video footage of ess-dog being chased by a rabid skunk..
Well I’m strapping in for that new flick, Weapons. Buddy worked on it said it was good. We shall fucking see.
Every time I turn the Mets game on and they have a big lead, it’s almost a certainty that they blow it in short order. Braves just put up a 9-spot on them.
My girlfriend was inside watching, laughing her ass off. Shit, I was laughing too. Then when it couldn’t get in the door, it zombie-walked its ass up the mountain to die.