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Knicks Morning News (2025.08.08)
08/08/2025 11:00:02
08/08/2025 11:00:00
08/08/2025 05:18:00
08/08/2025 05:18:39
08/08/2025 03:10:00
08/08/2025 01:28:00
08/08/2025 01:19:00
08/07/2025 23:41:55
75 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2025.08.08)”
Well at this point we should probably reiterate something noted earlier, which, as confirmed by your comment, not only did Mikal (1) whine about his own minutes; but he also (2) deigned to publicly second-guess the coach regarding the coach’s evaluation of the relative merits of the various players on the roster.
It’s good that we have this from Strat because it means we don’t have to re-litigate the straightforward reality that players typically have consciousness of their own productivity and how it’s trending.
So let’s reiterate that such consciousness on this particular player’s part (1) in fact resulted in him publicly blaming other people for it; and (2) not definitively proven, but extremely likely resulted in him materially changing his game into a pre-modern midrange game, away from competitive and contested spots on the floor to far softer ones that no one cares about. (*)
Both are significant red flags.
(*) The other teams in the association, we can rest assured, are perfectly happy if the Knicks’ offense moves away from Jalen Brunson and Karl-Anthony Towns toward 14-foot jumpers by the team’s small forward.
Talk about whining…
another fun day ahead at least its basketball
“It’s good that we have this from Strat because it means we don’t have to re-litigate the straightforward reality that players typically have consciousness of their own productivity and how it’s trending.”
Right. The Strat Test has always been the bellweather for saliency on this blog.
So since that’s the case, at least in the terms of the word soup know as E du jour, let’s look Strat’s opening line in that quote, in response to swifty’s sarcastic response about Mikal being characterized by the biggest whiner on this blog* as a whiner:
But now, not only is Bridges a whiner, he’s a petty scumbag who purposely changed the way he played in a way that was detrimental to the team just to undermine the coach, and undermined Thibs’ best friend Leon in front of the asshole owner just to sugarcoat his massively declining game. Then he sucked up tp Dolan (obviously while wearing a JD and the Straight Shot tee-shirt) who then demanded that Leon fire Thibs ($30M extension be damned) and then extend Mikal at something close to the $150M max or else.
This is obvious because Mikal has a long rap sheet as a coach-killer and locker room cancer. While I wasn’t able to find anything suggesting in my google searches, it must be the case. He was just slicker about it in the past, I guess.
*although everyone should defer to your thought on whiners based on your HOF credentials, there’s that whole deferring to authority fallacy thing…
Beautiful day in the city, not too hot and the wildfire smoke seems to have cleared up finally
whatever city that is lol you could be in cali france or canada probably along with other places too anyway glad its going well for you wherever you are
Not to “undermine the coach.”
Because he knew he was having a tough time in the more important, contested areas and needed to “adapt.” That’s a big red flag standing alone, even for someone who doesn’t blame other people for his declining productivity.
Two separate, unrelated prongs.
1. “Blame” is not the correct word.
2. There’s no evidence he changed his game because he was tired.
I think it’s a 100% certainty that player productivity per minute changes as you play more minutes. Some can play more than others, but it changes. In fact, in one of the Knicks coaching interviews (I forget which one) it was reported the Knicks were specifically impressed by the presentation he made about minutes allocation and productivity.
I think it’s a 100% certainty Mikal was aware that he was getting tired and it was impacting his productivity. That’s not a change in his game. It means “I’m tired and it’s impacting my shot, how quickly I can close out, get up and down the court etc.”
I think it’s a 100% certainty he brought it up with Thibs because he thought Thibs was either unaware of that fact or making a calculation error in terms of what was best for the team results. That’s not blame. That’s feedback to the coach that he can take or leave.
I think the whole thing would have died privately, but someone reported it so it became a public conversation.
still not sure i understand why (usually) well-conditioned athletes in their 20s where one of the prerequisites of their job is to stay in good shape and who have elite training and medical staffs available to them are getting tired in the first place i am not talking about mikal specifically here i am talking in general
I’m still not even sure why this is an issue.
Thibs has long been known for playing players a lot of minutes. Former NBA players have criticized him for it. Some guys don’t want to play for him. Some people have even blamed him for breaking players down or shortening careers.
Regardless of what you think about late season or long term impact from a lot of minutes, I think players do know when they are tired or hurting and could use a break. So IMO going to the coach was appropriate.
The Mikal issue became a bigger deal because Thibs already had a reputation for playing players too many minutes and here was a star player saying it publicly during the season. So the media jumped all over it because they were already writing about the issue (“The Knicks Minutes Police”).
I think separately, management was also probably not thrilled with the minutes allocation. So when they got player feedback that it was a problem it became a bigger problem. That probably made it part of why Thibs was released. But I don’t think the intention of any of it was to get Thibs fired.
And just for the record, we know Mikal felt it was impacting him and didn’t like it. Hart probably didn’t mind. But there could have been other players (like OG or Towns) that may have felt at times they were playing too many minutes.
Less so Towns, but there some nights where OG was giving everything he had on both sides and was totally gassed but Thibs left him out there. So maybe he complained privately also. We just don’t know about it.
Mikal talked at the very beginning of the season (14 games in) about how the shift away from the basket and towards the midrange was a conscious effort based on his playoff experience with Phoenix.
It was stupid at the time and looks downright laughable in hindsight after his offensive dud of a playoff performance, but it wasn’t because he was tired.
E’s arguments are so tedious and contrived I think he sometimes loses track of what his point is supposed to be, but in any event, Mikal Bridges should take more 3s and more shots at the basket.
“E’s arguments are so tedious and contrived” is a nice summation of the last few days of thread hijacking, culminating in Doogie expressing surprise that top athletes can actually get tired, apparently having forgotten what the end of an Olympic 1,500 meter race looks like.
Exactly — it was because he knew his game was slipping.
Nothing I wrote said or implied, in any way, that he went middie because he was “tired.”
He’s not a “star player” or anything close. (In Dolan’s mind he almost certainly is, so if that is what you were trying to say, we’re in agreement. It’s hard to tell.)
Don’t want to belabour this discussion (even though I am) but the whole Mikal-Thibs issue was not about minutes or Mikal piping up in public but Thibs denying the conversation. Probably the conversation happened, but old school Thibs (he never criticises refs or players in the press) prioritising what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas over a player’s truthfulness rankles. And at a more senior level would have to be addressed. Which it was, and given the many options it could have been, I think they (Leon, Wes, Dolan, but who cares) chose the best one.
I’ll pass the baton, this is even too tedious for me!
Nah. Before that little bitch Mikal whined about playing too many minutes, Leon and Dolan were completely unaware of Thibs tendency as a coach. But then Dolan heard Mikal’s little hissy fit and immediately called Leon and said “as soon as we lose to the pacers in the ECF, fire Thibs! Mikal is a SUPERSTAR even moreso than Carmelo, and we have to appease him AT ALL COSTS!!!!”
Denying it is far more reasonable and judicious than saying publicly something like, “Mikal should focus instead on playing better” which we can rest assured closely resembled Thibs’s actual thoughts.
DRed it took me a minute to connect the two but for days I was walking around being like why do I smell poppers everywhere. Then it connected and I’m happy it’s gone. But those northern wildfires smell like gay orgies. I shit you not.
Anyway. Back to the beach to take notes.
.210
.252
.196
.183
.279
.245
.100
Those are Mikal’s FTr numbers throughout his career. The .100 is his number from last season with NYK.
The working theory here from E is that Mikal’s athleticism declined so precipitously apparently overnight that he decided to just stop attacking the rim altogether to paper over this decline in physicality. At age 27 he was able to put up a respectable .245 FTr, but at age 28 he hit the cliff so hard he decided to play another way. This seems like a pretty fucking stupid theory to me.
Now, don’t get me wrong— the actual reason Mikal cited for shooting from the midrange so much is ALMOST as fucking stupid. “The midrange is important in the playoffs so I’m just going to do that all season and then I’ll be great at it in the playoffs” is pretty goddamn dumb.
Mike Brown’s first order of business needs to be to get Mikal to attack the rim more. If he goes out there and puts another .100 FTr on the season, I give up. He is just not a very impactful player putting so little pressure on the opposing defense. He’s settling for the shot the defense wants him to take. It’s an offensive profile only Phil Jackson could goink.
wow didnt realize that mikals ftr was so low even before he was here brunson was at .337 and kat was at .373 this past year so mikals career high of .279 and career of .208 are pretty paltry
“Mike Brown’s first order of business needs to be to get Mikal to attack the rim more.”
This and more. Am thrilled that we have the 2nd best odds at a title, but can’t see why, for example, the Cavs aren’t ahead of us. Better known quantity, young enough that injuries may not derail them, known coach. People see untapped offensive potential with Brown unlocking it. Brown has a lot of competing first orders of business–but agree Mikal probably tops the list since as an individual he underperformed. All the other offensive deficiencies mainly involved coaching schemes. Brown and his assistants are the key.
good call BE, that was definitely odd…
after he said that it was like – okay, someone is lying…and yes, it did not seem to be mikal…
In Phoenix, Mikal was generally around 80-85 in FTr+. As a Net he was up over 100.
Last year his FTr+ was a pitiful 41. That’s getting into like Steve Novak territory.
He attempted 16 free throws in 18 playoff games.
In 246 minutes over six playoff games against Boston, he attempted literally zero free throws.
As a starting NBA small forward.
That ain’t Thibs and it ain’t Jalen Brunson either.
for sure 118 free throws taken in 3036 regular season minutes is beyond abysmal he really needs to clean that up but i figure if we know it then mike brown knows it too
Look. If people want to be upset at how Mikal played last year. His lack of free throws, his lack of rim shots, etc…or they want to complain about his contract. THat’s fair game.
The silliness is over saying he “whined” and somehow was the reason why Thibs got fired because Dolan was so enamored over Mikal Bridges (Dolan must love the mid range game!)
This is just plain silliness.
Well, I mean, his whole mission statement was that he was basically “practicing” the midrange game during the regular season so he’d be ready to light it up from midrange once the playoffs started, so it would have been truly bizarre to see him start attacking the rim in the playoffs and rack up a bunch of FTAs.
Again, this was a ridiculously dumb idea from the jump. Nobody is debating that. The guy had a .245 FTr the season directly before this one. He can get to the line if he wants.
The good news is, we’re about to find out what is exactly going on. If he comes out here and puts up .100 again, you can take a victory lap. If he doubles that number you should really say “hmm guess I was wrong about that” but we all know that is clinically impossible.
if he doubles that number its still at .200 which is still horrendous but point still taken
I think Bridges speaking out was a good thing for him, his teammates and organization. He was making a point and sharing his opinion. He was also empowering his teammates, especially the backups.
Lots of people besides fans thought Thibs was just not doing a great job with minutes distribution. Especially, when up or down big with just a few minutes left.
Besides Bridges, even Brunson and Hart would giggle and sheepishly comment and laugh when discussing Thibs and his minutes. It sort of became a running joke, or Thibs became a running joke when others talked about minutes. I actually like that Bridges spoke out. He didn’t overstep. He professionally offered his opinion.
Real Frank Ntilikina-Dejounte Murray-RJ Barrett-Cam Reddishism has never been tried.
The so-called “mission statement” is being overstated. Katz posed the question “Why isn’t Mikal getting to the line?” and the answer was “because he’s shooting fadeaways” and doesn’t draw contact.
Shooting fadeaways is another red flag, by the way.
In this case, as in virtually all of these, it’s literally impossible because I’ve made no factual claim that *can* be wrong. You turned my risk-reward/red flag/causes for concern into a “theory,” but it wasn’t and isn’t.
“He can get to the line if he wants.”
We don’t know that, at all, and it just begs the question under consideration. What we can say for certain is that it would be extremely odd for a starting wing on a contender (*) who *can* get to the line if he wants to, in turn, never *actually* getting to the line. I don’t even know if there would be a single sports precedent for such a thing.
(*) Looking to get paid.
story of your life, eh 😛
ahhhhhhh, you got me again E, you are just toooooooooooo irresistible sir…bet you’d make a great wing man out on the town…
keep up or get left behind, huh E…
at this point…i think to hypothesize that bridges can get to the hole and draw fouls such that he gets more free throws is wishcasting…the dude abhors contact and isn’t physically strong enough to do it (we got our fill of his game last year)…he is a perimeter guy….period.
It’s possible the lack of driving to the basket and the mucho minutes are correlated. I suspect driving to the basket successfully takes more energy than shooting fadeaways. If this is true and Bridges was conserving energy for his marathon minutes it could have affected his playing style.
Translation: I will never ever admit when I might have been wrong about something, no matter how obvious it is and I will continue to spout my incorrect takes over and over again with an air that is so arrogantly confident in my wrongness. When I am wrong, I will retreat from the blog for weeks at a time, only to return the second any small piece of evidence emerges that MIGHT support one of my many outlandish claims.
What kind of lawyer-speak bullshit is this? You seem to think we’re all stupid here but I assure you we’re not stupid.
You have repeatedly made the claim that Mikal changed his game and now gets to the FT line at Kyle Korver levels because his athleticism was declining. Call it a “theory” or a “cause for concern” or whatever you need to call it.
If he gets back to his career norms next year, your “cause for concern” will have been wrong. In that event a “gee I guess I was wrong” would seem appropriate but that is very obviously not in your vocabulary. You’re already figuring out ways to NOT say that.
https://x.com/NBA/status/1953831152529154460
Well, okay, but in the season DIRECTLY PRECEDING THIS ONE his FTr was 2.5 times higher. I’m not saying he’s gonna turn into prime James Harden but it’s not like it was a very long time ago when he got to the line a reasonable amount. It was literally the 2023-2024 season. “Espresso” was a hit song at the time.
I think a bigger concern for the Knicks than Bridges is getting another ball handler (doesn’t necessarily have to be a PG), and another wing. Both would need to be at least solid at D. I know we can’t fit both of these on the roster with our current cap situation, but getting at least one of these would help. I think the tougher regular season matchups and playoffs showed that we didn’t have enough people who could bring the ball up the court and create offense. I like the idea of having Brunson playing off the ball just a little bit more.
Let me get back to my master-debating.
Thanks, Strat. Appreciate that a guy whose athleticism has so significantly declined that entire threads are spent arguing about what part of his game is worse has the top two defensive plays of the entire NBA season.
(Don’t get me wrong, Mikal needs some fairly significant fine tuning, and by that I do NOT mean his shooting form — but just maybe he’s not all that bad…)
I’ll leave it to others to decide how “lawyerly” this is or isn’t, but in point of fact that isn’t the standard. We don’t judge “causes of concern” based on whether the possible “things concerned about” turn out to actually happen. Dude drives down the street at 90, six beers deep, there’s cause for concern; doesn’t matter whether he somehow manages to get himself home unscathed.
The only real way the “cause for concern” can be “wrong” is if in fact there are no causes for concern — as we sit here today.
I’ll flesh out the “concern” and the actual factual statement. As we sit here today, given the falling free-throw rate, the lack of physicality on both sides of the ball, the inability to get through screens, the change in shooting form, the change in shot quality selection, the blaming of other people, the way he’s discussed his objectives and game publicly, and the already indicated decline in his numbers at an early age, I believe there’s ample “cause for concern” that Mikal Bridges’s career path from 29-32 will be materially worse than would otherwise be expected at those ages.
Do you agree?
Whether his 29-32 path actually goes in the “concerned” direction or not isn’t relevant. Anyone can give the answers after the data is all in.
I kinda thought this was the whole point of Bridges.
Julius was the other ballhandler. Bridges was supposed to replace Julius as the secondary ball handler so we could trade/not pay him, or at least that’s what it seemed like.
Maybe we just decided having two ball handlers is overrated.
I remember when I watched Mikal rip the ball out of the Celtics hands two games in a row to secure improbable come back victories over them all I could think was “man, this guy is in physical decline.”
I remember thing at the time: “fuck them picks”.
There were a number of occasions last year where Mikal created his own shot and looked quite good at doing it. I remember it clearly because it made me mad.
All athletes enter a decline phase but I’m not buying that Mikal’s decline was so steep at age 28 that he consciously decided to turn into a Kyle Korver type of offensive player. He’s a weird cat and had an extremely annoying season. His play drove me nuts.
If he plays like that again this year, I can’t say I’ll be shocked, but it also wouldn’t surprise me at all to see him create more and get that FTr back up to a reasonable number.
All you have to do is look at how Mikal (and OG for that matter) played when Brunson was out to see what the real issue here is.
Of course he can take it to the rack more and cut out the middies. But the larger issue is how ball dominant Brunson is. Which, Brunson is damn good so its not surpising Thibs leaned on this because he needs that security blanket with his offenses.
But this is one of the reasons why Thibs was let go. This is no secret. It wasn’t JUST because Mikal was a whiney little bitch about leading the league in minutes.
That and defend PGs, which he also can’t do
In defense of the profession, if I said it to a judge I’d get castigated for clearly trying to avoid making a substantive statement.
Brunson must love having Mikal on the team. He can be a horrible defender who can’t guard any PG’s in the league and yet it’s all Bridges fault!
top 40 in ftr:
1 Steven Adams Houston Rockets C 0.658
2 Jimmy Butler III Golden State Warriors PF 0.637
3 Mason Plumlee Phoenix Suns PF 0.634
4 Rudy Gobert Minnesota Timberwolves C 0.548
5 Giannis Antetokounmpo Milwaukee Bucks SF 0.543
6 Adem Bona Philadelphia 76ers C 0.521
7 Daniel Gafford Dallas Mavericks PF 0.491
8 DeAndre Jordan Denver Nuggets C 0.476
9 Jalen Duren Detroit Pistons C 0.452
10 Jarrett Allen Cleveland Cavaliers C 0.445
11 Deni Avdija Portland Trail Blazers SF 0.441
12 James Harden Los Angeles Clippers SG 0.438
13 Bennedict Mathurin Indiana Pacers SG 0.435
14 Jaxson Hayes Los Angeles Lakers C 0.433
15 Yves Missi New Orleans Pelicans C 0.415
16 Moussa Diabate Charlotte Hornets SF 0.414
17 Trae Young Atlanta Hawks PG 0.409
18 Shai Gilgeous-Alexander Oklahoma City Thunder PG 0.408
19 Damian Lillard Milwaukee Bucks PG 0.395
20 Drew Eubanks Los Angeles Clippers PF 0.393
21 Goga Bitadze Orlando Magic C 0.390
22 Jalen Brunson New York Knicks PG 0.370
23 Alperen Sengun Houston Rockets C 0.367
24 Walker Kessler Utah Jazz C 0.363
25 Amen Thompson Houston Rockets SG 0.362
26 Trayce Jackson-Davis Golden State Warriors PF 0.359
27 Spencer Dinwiddie Dallas Mavericks PG 0.355
28 Ausar Thompson Detroit Pistons SG 0.355
29 Kevon Looney Golden State Warriors PF 0.353
30 Julius Randle Minnesota Timberwolves PF 0.351
31 Stephon Castle San Antonio Spurs PG 0.348
32 Wendell Carter Jr. Orlando Magic C 0.348
33 Aaron Gordon Denver Nuggets PF 0.345
34 Zeke Nnaji Denver Nuggets PF 0.342
35 Jake LaRavia Sacramento Kings SF 0.341
36 Devin Booker Phoenix Suns SG 0.340
37 Luke Kornet Boston Celtics C 0.340
38 De’Andre Hunter Cleveland Cavaliers PF 0.339
39 Nikola Jokic Denver Nuggets C 0.338
40 Karl-Anthony Towns New York Knicks C 0.337
Jake LaRavia is a boxer, Kevon Looney is a clown, and Goga Bitadze is an exotic dancer.
and yet there they are
Yeah, I don’t think Mikal was tasked with POA defense anywhere else… Thibs just projected role incorrectly.
Mikal is much better defending wings, but someone has to do Brunson’s heavy lifting on that side of the floor.
It’s literally why he was runner up for DPOY, that’s what Mikal made a name for himself in the NBA doing.
Well that’s just like your opinion, man.
Agree. Love Brunson, and we don’t accomplish anything without him, but he’s got to be part of the offense and not “the offense.”
wow rare to see 3 thumbsup congrats ess
i’d like to take a moment to complain about something non-knicks…
so, about a year or so ago sort of cut the cord with cable tv…switched it out for youtube tv…
as normal the price creep on the service has gone north of $80 now…
there are basically 2 channels i watch: espn and msnbc…i’ll switch on to another sports/news channel occasionally, pretty much just those 2 though…
it’s little league world series time, so very little like grown folk sport stuff going on on espn at the moment…
may be time to really cut the cable for good…
the mic is open – anyone else have any non-knick grievances to air…
my first introduction to online life was a video game (elder scrolls online) forum thing…
there was just an ungodly amount of mechanics and strategy involved in the game, so used to check in on answers at that site…
started participating (posting) after a while, found not only the game intriguing and fascinating but also the forum…just a lot of smart and cool (my version) folks whom not only played but were posting…bigger community than KB, but still fairly familiar…
on their forum they had three feedback options available:
– insightful
– agree
– awesome
for whatever weird reason, i made it like a crusade to really build up my “awesome” feedback stats…there was a few other posters i had observed while checking in there that were really really skilled at it…
charisma has always been a fascinating topic since i started trying to understand leadership…so yeah, how to get others to observe/listen and perhaps follow…
over time didn’t get a lot of “insightful” feedback, you kind of have to really know what your talking about (game mechanics/strategy) to continually receive that a lot…kind of like with the knicks, i have some level of understanding on stuff, but not really all that intelligently in tune with the details of stuff…
for a long time (years) didn’t get much “agree” feedback, ’til i kind of cracked the code on that one…
what i did get good at: “awesome” farming…
continually winning strategy for that – lead folks to pleasant memorances…make ’em smile, exhale…not always easy to do – but much much easier when you can use gifs…yeah, lazy “awesome” farming there…
i don’t know, maybe it’s some subliminal weakness showing out, just for wanting to be liked…
ha, not to tell on myself – but i believe i may have actually had that exact statement (in some moment of clarity) in one of my early monikers here at KB: geo – i’ll say anything to be liked
or some kind of nonsense like that…
Brunson wasn’t brought in specifically for his ability to cover PGs.
And yes, Mikal was known for harassing PGs.
He had two jobs that made him the “perfect fit”. He did neither of them well.
Geo — ESPN is going direct to consumer in like 10 days. Cord can be cut.
Shams:
nice E, see it…$30, a little high for a single network…although i just saw where espn is assuming the nfl network, maybe that will add more content (replays of all nfl games)…
was hoping that thing where espn and fox sports were gonna merge would happen, instead it got squashed…even without work, busy enough already where i’m starting to like the idea of doing with less viewing stuff available…
edit: hopefully come christmas, i have access to neither channel…big talk from a life long boob tube addict, so we’ll see 🙂
Mikal won at least two games for us by blocking Vuc (Chicago) and Schroder (Brooklyn) at the rim this season. He also made two game winning defensive plays against Boston in the playoffs. Oh, I also remember one key game winning stop against Cade.
He also hit at least one game winning shot at 1:00AM out west when Brunson was out.
I’m sure there were more that I can’t remember right now so come on…give the guy a break…he was traded for KD, makes corner threes like no one else, plays 82 games, outplayed Brown on his match up and LOVES winning. Also, think not having his handshake clown buddy on the team will prove to be very helpful with focus.
Mikal and OG were the two guys we wanted all along and everyone said Leon can never get them. Last year many here cried when OG was paid. Rinse. Repeat.
So different topic for a moment. We often discuss and argue about athletes from different eras, and how difficult it is to compare, and how athletes are getting ‘better’ and what that might mean.
Interesting piece in the Times on a guy whose triple jump world record still stands from the 20th century. But the giant pink elephant in the room that the author never talked about is that three of the five field world records that still stand from the 20th century are this guy in the triple (1995), Mike Powell in the long jump (1991), and Javier Sotomayor in the high jump (1993).
So what the fuck — we’re getting stronger and faster at everything but jumping??
Maybe there was less gravity in the 90s
More gravity, DRed, c’mon, you were there…
Raven, in my ancient days I’ve come to believe that money touches almost everything and almost everything can be explained by money. My guess is that that may be the case here: those events are not big for endorsements, cash of various kinds, don’t lead anywhere afterward… You can become a millionaire if you’re Usain Bolt or Simone Bials, but a long-jumper not so much.
Chris Jent: Come on down!
Bleacher Report has an article out listing the worst nba teams heading in to next season, in order…
has us 7th worst…they have both LA teams ahead of us in competing for a title…not buying that…
for the eastern conference only the cavs, magic and us are part of their top 10 teams going in to next season…
Yay?
When my grandfather died, I inherited his book of Dirty Little Limericks. I committed a few of them to memory. One went like this:
There once was a man named Jent
Whose dick was so long it bent
To save himself trouble
He put it in double
And instead of coming, he went.
lol, that is funny.
Geo, there was a moment in my life when I could get hdtv through my antenna in the city and YouTube tv for like 40 a month. Been all downhill since then.
I watch so little tv right now i have considered cutting the cord altogether but still need it for some live sports I’ve, tennis especially.