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149 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2025.05.30)”
Bit of a weird game last night – obviously I will take it but Halliburton is REALLY the head of the snake for Indy — if he plays like he did last night, everyone else sort of plays timid also.
I am not sure where to find stats like this (ie how many seconds left on shot clock when they cross the midline) but I really liked the ball pressure last night just shaving a few seconds off the usable shot clock for the Pacers. Easier to survive the proverbial blender when you have to defend for just a few seconds less. The Shamet/Wright lineups have really been a revelation. I agree with most that the regular season should’ve served as a test lab for these odd lineups, but part of the reason you get these vets is that they know how to play and don’t need to be spoonfed normal stuff like rotations etc.
Here’s a stat – per NBA.com, Shamet+Wright on the floor – > 27 minutes, ORtg 128.3, DRtg 90.4, net +37.9. It’s the best 2 man lineup the Knicks have played with more than 8 minutes on the floor. Granted these are almost always the non-Halliburton minutes, but those are crazy numbers.
Game 6 is going to be a war – I very much see it going down to the last couple minutes…
As has been the case for me since Game 1, I opted to do work instead of watching, and checked the highlights after.
One question: was there a particular reason Precious wound up in the game? Injury and/or foul trouble for KAT or Mitch? Or was this part of this bizarre Thibs 2.0, who plays lots of guys and experiments based on the opposing lineup?
Alan – was foul trouble for KAT, followed by Hack-a-Mitch, so Thibs had to take both out. Precious actually played just fine. He’s not a bad emergency player for this series as a switch defender — no bigs on the Pacers that he’s too small for…
Yeah Precious was fine. Every time Thibs expands his rotation these guys prove they don’t need to be buried in some dungeon. Landry and Delon have been hugely influential. I’m inclined to give him credit for relenting rather than being stubborn in the first place, but only if we win 🙂
Last night was actually a superbly coached game except for the 6 minutes to start the 4th where Mitch should’ve been in. We had answers for everything.
But you look at these minutes and it just doesn’t make sense:
Mitch – 20
McBride – 18
Hart – 34.
Mitch gives you rebounding, too! And much better defense. And no stupid turnovers (Josh has 8 turnovers in the last two games, most of them incredibly dumb).
it’s clear Thibs has predetermined that Josh plays the last 18 minutes come hell or high water.
Precious was lowkey huge. When KAT had to go to the bench bc of that stupid foul and then Mitch bc of hack a Mitch (and also there was no way he could play out alll those minutes to end the half), they started to make a little run but precious came in, got that bucket and played some good defense. We held down the fort and regained a bit of our lead. It was huge.
We did what we had to do. Thibs is so slow to adjust but maybe he’s finally figured out the rotations and substitutions for this series. Going 9 to 10 deep and getting serviceable minutes from the bench takes away one of their biggest advantages. Shamet and Wright up the defense, give Brunson some rest too.
I expect game six to be a battle and also expect some hometown cooking from the refs but we know we can beat these guys now. Neismith might be a bit hobbled. Possibly Hali too. That back up center got hurt last night. Perhaps it’s going to be us who wears them down this series and not the other way around.
Slow down Hali and you slow down the team. Brunson has had multiple defenders on him all game, every game and still he produces. They have no answer for him or KAT. And it’s not like we shot lights out last night. OG could have shot better. We missed some wide open threes that could have blown it open earlier. Hart still made some dumb plays that led to turnovers and missed opportunities. So I believe we can still execute better and beat these dudes even if they play better.
Go out in game six with the same intensity and get ahead early and start putting some doubt in these dudes heads. The hot shooting can’t last forever and, as we saw with Boston, when a good shooting team that shoots a lot of threes starts missing shots, the confidence withers, they start taking dumb shots out of desperation and we can beat these dudes.
We are the tougher and more physical team. We can beat these dudes.
Regardless, I’m very proud of how they reacted and played last night and also just so happy they gave us at least one more win and did not get closed out on the floor.
Question for the cap dudes. Shamet and Wright can be retained with the vet minimums and we’d have the mid level still?
Not sure how it relates to the apron issues (in terms of total salary) but both Shamet and Wright can even be brought back at 120% of the minimum with the non-bird exception i think.
I doubt Wright will get more than the minimum as a non-shooter. Possible Shamet could get a better offer since he’s a shooter. I have to imagine he is opening some eyes around the league with his defensive intensity.
by the way if there were ever a series in which the NBA would ever so slightly nudge the refs, game 6 would be it. A game 7 would be huge for viewership, and you have to imagine NYK v OKC is waaaaaay better for ratings than IND v OKC. Where is Tim Donaghy when you need him lol
Last thing on the Mitch/Josh/Deuce thing:
Carlisle has shown you that he will put his team in the bonus to get Mitch out of the game. Don’t save him the trouble!!!
We have such a huge tactical advantage with Mitch at the beginning of the 4Q. If he hacks Mitch we’re in the bonus. If he doesn’t hack Mitch, Mitch unleashes hell for a few minutes (and then you can put your precious Josh in with 6 mins left).
Why are you giving this up? In a close game this is going to cost us.
Again, this is all coming from the anxious guy who can’t watch the games live lately. But to play devil’s advocate, Hubert, Mitch is injury-prone, and still not in peak condition. Maybe at least some of this is Thibs not wanting to overextend the guy and risk losing their most important defensive player?
Today is a great day to be a Knick fan. Our team is going to be playing its more meaningful game in 25 years on May 31, when 27 teams are done for the year. The Knicks were able to keep the Pacers’ fast-break contained. The Pacers do not appear to have a defensive answer to KAT. Brunson is the best player in the series.
I am very proud of my analogy for my experience of last night’s game: It was like watching a Adam Sandler/Drew Barrymore early 2000s rom-com, only knowing that Wes Craven was the director. Everything was sweetness and light. There were a few tense scenes, but nothing too scary. BUT, knowing that Wes Craven behind the camera, I kept expecting blood & gore to spring out of nowhere. It never did.
After the Knicks lost Game 1, we knew that it was going to be hard to win this series. After the Knicks lost Game 2, we knew that it would require winning at least 2/3 in Indiana. On Saturday night, the Knicks have the opportunity to pull that off.
Win and the season continues.
Lose and go home.
I’m going to enjoy this ride for as long as it lasts.
Was watching some of the highlights of the Knicks defense last night, and as much as we criticize Bridges (mostly deserved) he was an absolute demon on D. He was literally wrapping his arms around Hali off the ball (have no idea how the refs let it go) and flying all over the court.
I just wish he could bring that effort more consistently (see game 4)
I agree, but he actually is overextending Mitch, too. He keeps playing him for the entire 1Q and he looks incredibly gassed by the end of it. Yesterday he had his hands on his knees for a full ten seconds on a defensive possession. The Pacers have picked up on this and in game 4 they were leaking out more towards the end of his shifts. They’ll probably do it again tomorrow.
To be clear I’m just picking on one thing in an otherwise well coached game. I don’t “think I’m smarter than Thibs” but I’m pretty sure this is very stupid.
And Josh has been really bad the last two games. He still makes some excellent plays but they’re not offsetting the turnovers, the bad defense (Siakim just kills him), and the bad offense (no one guards him). He doesn’t deserve 34-36 automatic minutes when the rest of the team is playing better than him.
Again: well coached game all around, but Thibs giveth and Thibs taketh.
As we saw with the inexplicable Cam Payne minutes in game 2, sticking to your predetermined rotation can cost you the game in 2 minutes. We were too good tonight for it to matter but it feels like Chekov’s rotation.
i think josh is in there primarily because he is the one who will get that one key rebound with one minute left that will win you the game
very happy thibs has made some adjustments to playing our opponent…
much less happy that it took him so long to adjust…
I actually think they should start the 4th like they do the second: the KAT+defenders lineup. It might be their best lineup in this matchup, and that’s when they got separation in the 2nd.
To me, Thibs biggest problems yesterday were: (i) playing the Delon-Deuce-Mikal-Hart-Precious lineup. That should never see the floor, especially the way Mikal has been shooting. It’s 3.5 non-shooters – I don’t care how good you are on defense, it’s not tenable. And I think the Pacers cut their lead from 22 to 15 or something like that.
The second mistake was overplaying Hart when he did a bunch of dumb things in the 3rd (he was a little better in the 4th, I think).
And to give Thibs some credit: upping the ball pressure is the key to disrupt the Pacers. Every second you gain by slowing down their ball progression means you have to defend fewer actions. The Pacers are so good at running second or third actions to give them good looks. Yesterday, Haliburton was frequently getting across the halfcourt at the 18-17 second mark – that’s at least one fewer action they can run. It makes a huge difference in the quality of shots they get (and also makes it less taxing for the defense, as I can imagine it’s mentally and physically exhausting to have to guard multiple actions every single time).
I just don’t know why the Knicks haven’t done this from the start…
i think that playing wright has been just as important the last few games as starting mitch has been
I have no problem with Josh being in the closing lineup (we know Mitch can’t be) but you don’t need to play the whole 4Q to be in for the last minute.
Here’s a controversial take: Precious should probably take some of Josh’s minutes, particularly when KAT is at the 5
His D is better, rebounding is probably a wash (though I haven’t checked the stats), Josh isn’t pushing the ball like he usually does (so you don’t lose that), and neither is really a shooter
Precious at the 4 is a no-no for me. Those lineups are awful.
Just play Deuce (or Shamet!) instead of Hart and outscore the other team.
Another problem with Josh Hart in this series is that he is the only one who constantly speeds up the pace.
While normally I appreciate it, seeing as Brunson and KAT go at a pachydermic pace and a little mix and match does us good, the main thing you shouldn’t do against Indy is playing at their pace.
The Knicks are 4-5 at home this playoffs.
Detroit – 1 home win, 2 home losses
Boston – 2 home wins, 1 home loss
Indiana – 1 home win, 2 home losses
I’m rooting that we end up over .500 at home during the playoffs this year. That would, of course, require winning Game 7 at home against Indiana and winning at least two home games against OKC in the Finals.
On the Pacers: I think they showed a lot of immaturity with their approach to the game last night. It was as if they thought they already made the finals.
Climbing out of a 3-1 hole is supposed to be a grind and we got the first one pretty easy. The Celtics kicked our ass in game 5, too, but at least we competed hard (it was close at HT) and made them earn it with career nights from Brown and White. And by competing hard we learned what adjustments to make for game 6.
The Pacers didn’t do any of that. We basically won the game in the first half with reasonable execution. We’re not spent. No one had to dig deep and play their best game. We get to save that shit for tomorrow.
They let us get off the mat. Dumb move.
It’s still somewhat remarkable how this series is the mirror image of the Boston series. Two heartbreaking defeats at home, a game 3 win on the road, a deflating game 4 loss, and a game 5 blowout. Let’s hope game 6 goes differently.
You can usually talk me into situational use of the dynamic Precious and OG defensive combo but maybe not against Siakim, the one guy in the NBA OG doesn’t own.
Then again Siakim kinda owns everyone on our team. Every time they don’t go to him I feel let off the hook.
He was 5-13 yesterday. 15 points in 17 true shots.
Z-Man hasn’t been heard from since he was pregaming on the train to MSG maybe someone ought to do a wellness check
I thought Shamet was doing a good job on McConnell yesterday.
Siakim was 5-13 but felt like he missed a couple easy shots he always makes. Not sure it was that our defense was so much better on him
“You can usually talk me into situational use of the dynamic Precious and OG defensive combo but maybe not against Siakim, the one guy in the NBA OG doesn’t own.”
Kat – 5
Precious – 4
OG – 3
Then two shooters
I think the offense can survive & you get a lot of d and rebounding
MK I think it’s a good idea. I’d love to situationally put OG & Precious on Tyrese and Turner to snuff out their pick and roll (like for two minutes, maybe, with a lead). But I also think it’s a little too far out to try.
This defensive stand by Mitchell Robinson on Miles Turner last night was a thing of beauty.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/QqpMewKfDp0
not sure how you are getting a lot of defense and rebounding out of kat precious og only og defends and only kat gets rebounds
Mathurin has 27 FTAs on 26 FGAs this series.
KAT has 37 FTAs on 83 FGAs. Brunson has 45 FTAs in 107 FGAs.
Is there an argument that KAT and Brunson somehow get less contact on drives than Mathurin?
It’s ludicrous.
lol Bridges just holding Tyrese.
I feel like last night was the first time we consistently took advantage of the postseason officiating pattern the same way the Pistons did and the Pacers have been doing all playoffs.
We really have to lean into the officiating.* Nesmith has been getting a lot of credit for evading screens but our screens also suck. It seems like we’re the only team not fouling on every screen. (Although that might be bc Towns is the only player who would still get called for it.)
* maybe not tomorrow, they’ll call everything in Indiana; but definitely in game 7.
Re retaining Shamet and Wright… I posted this a couple of days ago. I THINK we can just about retain both on the minimum, and use the full (or very nearly the full) TPMLE. We’d need our 14th slot to be a 2rp or an undrafted FA, and we’d be hard capped with a 14 man roster. So it might not be wise and we might be better with four minimum salary players as then we’d have flexibility mid-season with the 15th slot and possibly the ability to go a little above the minimum for a waived player/d-league standout. But it is possible, yes.
Because when Thibs was playing a 7.5 man rotation he couldn’t have those guys guard 80 feet for 41+ minutes. Playing 9.5 guys they can do that for 34 minutes…
Okay, gotta say this. Some of you guys are crazy. Like actually insane.
Had to go do some stuff at halftime. Kept an eye on the score. Never up by less than double digits, sometimes 20 and 22 points, rarely less than 15.
Came back at the end of the game. Instead of watching the second half right away, I read the thread first. Holy shit. It was full-on baying for blood to murder Hart and Thibs. I mean it read like a scene from an old western with mob justice, riling each other up to pull the guy from jail and string him up and watch him twitch. Somehow we had to be down by at least 37.
So then I watched the game. Sure, Josh had an occasional brain fart as is his wont. But he was also ABSOLUTELY INSTRUMENTAL almost throughout the 4th. He had one turnover that was Brunson giving him the ball with ONE SECOND left in the shot clock way out past the three point line where he just kind of threw it nowhere. That was a Brunson turnover pegged to Hart (3.5 minutes left).
He also had a ‘man’-sized jumper in traffic, played fantastic D against Turner to create a turnover, had a fantastic layup from Mikal, got a shit-ton of rebounds and 50-50 balls he had no right to get to. Here’s his stats from the game:
34 minutes. That’s a problem the way he was playing?
4-8 from the field, which last I looked was 50%. Very Hart.
12 points, 10 rebounds, 4 assists.
3 turnovers, which is in the Hart-normal range. Reading the thread I thought it HAD to be 6, maybe 8.
It was spooky, and unpleasant. I understand some of you wanted Mitch to start the 4th, and okay, I get it. But guess what, Hart played great, we won by 16, and y’all need to disperse the mob.
Agree 100% with Hubert.
Tonight was the first night we played defense as aggressively as the refs are allowing. We ramped up the pressure. Especially in that stretch where Delon and Shamet, who I guess is ok on defense (?), were on the court, you could feel them pushing the Pacers back behind the 3 point line on the perimeter and limiting their time.
Not sure why it took this long to adjust but they did it.
When you run a 7 man rotation you can’t pressure the ball fullcourt and you can’t risk too many touch fouls, especially at the pace the first four games were played.
Thibs has flexed a bit and I give him credit for it.
Josh had some absolutely terrible plays last night, a couple of live ball turnovers that could have been killer, some bad defensive stuff. That one in the fourth after he had stolen the ball made me want to break a window and jump.
But I can’t kill him. He is who he is. It’s up to Thibs to reel him in.
I agree, and I say that as a proud Minutes Policeman
I could not disagree more. The turnovers and brainfarts are bad, but also his defense was often atrocious. He keeps losing people on backdoor cuts, and was single-handedly responsible for several Indiana layups.
Yeah, the defense was bad from Hart. That’s the biggest thing people were noticing. He kept getting beaten. Apparently there was a section of fans yelling “Bench Hart” at the game. Which is kind of crazy honestly.
I think the fact he was a negative 1 in a 16 point win across 34 minutes does tell you something real in this case.
Not out on Josh in anyway, just wasn’t his best night.
Someone mentioned in the game thread imagine if Brunson took only 7 shots in 31 minutes, and that Hali can disappear. Also saw we held Indy to their lowest score since Feb 4. Hali’s line that game: 0-3, no points in 25 minutes. And remember our second game of the season when we beat them by holding them to under 100 points? Hali’s line that game: 0-8, no points in 26 minutes.
Our goal in games 6 and 7 should be to hold Hali to a combined 11 FGA and 0 points.
I don’t want to say the Pacers mailed that one in. Let’s just say they didn’t play with any urgency.
I don’t quite understand why we can’t put together two defensive efforts like that in a row.
I would be more patient with the Hart minutes if we didn’t already know that the starting unit underperforms with him and why. Bad games happen, but when data is more established you have to go with it if the guy is not playing his best also. I prefer Deuce getting more minutes.
I like Wright, but I wish he was getting minutes along. He’s not shooting well. Sooner or later the Pacers are going to start giving him the Hart treatment and just let him shoot so they can help off him. Had he playing all along maybe he’d be more comfortable and in a better shooting rhythm or something.
Maybe Thibs finally figured out that when you use your bench the offset is that you have fresher players to close the game and series.
Generally, I’d be against using Precious at C, but against the Pacers I think matchup is OK.
I have no idea why Thibs plays Mitch so many minutes early and gasses him but then doesn’t start him in the 4th when we can get another big run out of him before the fouls start (neither does Thibs).
Thibs played at least one totally idiotic lineup. I’d count that as an improvement.
I’ll go back and watch the fourth again, but so should you, Marechal.
My comments were really more about the thread than about Hart. I don’t mind bitching, that’s what we do here, but up by at least 15 in the Eastern Conference Finals — and I do think we coasted to victory because of Hart’s hustle plays getting the ball away from Indy on numerous key plays in the 4th — the level of pure vitriol seemed out of place.
Also, you know, Huk-Huk!
Hack-a-Math has been tried by many teams this year in an effort to contain him, but the 85% free throw shooting makes the strategy fundamentally unsound. Yet another thing to crucify Thibs for.
Hart was playing poorly in a stretch of the game when the Knicks had the opportunity to really put the game away. As well as we played, we did let the Pacers stick around well within striking distance in a game they didn’t seem all that interested in winning.
Down the stretch he made a couple of plays, so it worked out. But he was a real liability out there during a time of the game that could have turned out to be crucial. When he’s bad he’s dreadful— he wasn’t defending anybody and nobody bothers to defend him.
In the highest leverage portion of the highest leverage game of the season, we were playing the five starters lineup that has not been very good for much of the year, and we got away with it. That much maligned lineup actually played some aggressive defense down the stretch, as if they had learned from game 1 that you need to turn up the intensity on that end when you’re protecting a lead. Whether this will prove to be sustainable I don’t know, but we were clearly the more physical team yesterday.
We’ve been put thru the ringer by this team but last night they definitely made me proud with their effort. I do not expect to win tomorrow but I’ll be shocked if the Knicks get blown out, this team won’t go down without a fight. I can’t imagine Indiana not playing a full, balls to the wall 48 minutes just like they did in Game 4 so not sure how the Knicks will be able to overcome that. But I know they’ll try their asses off to somehow pull it out tomorrow.
The Thibs audio where he says 15 words and 4 of them are “aggressive” explains at least to me why Hart plays so much.
Hart defense was awful for most of the game, he was caught napping over and over on cuts and backdoors and his turnovers* came all at the worst possible moments, when we had chances to kill the game and instead usually the Pacers scored off them.
And Game Threads have always been hot takes free zone, people who weren’t there in “that” specific moment aren’t allow to criticize other posters post hoc 😉
We had a good game, Brunson set the tone with a very efficient shooting night, the Pacers weren’t focused and missed a lot of shots they usually hit (Nesmith 1-8, Hali only 2-7), good for us.
I’m ready for a battle tomorrow, I hope our players and the refs are too.
* Speaking of turnovers, I’m the only one who cursed loudly when Mitch inbounded the ball to JB… who wasn’t watching?
I didn’t know where JB was going on that inbound, Max. It was a frustrating moment.
Raven, I love Hart as much as anyone, but his dumb TOs and losing guys on backcuts and just generally not providing much on O has been as problem the last few games. He was good in the 4th, as he was the previous game, but combined with the tactical mistake of not starting our most impactful player in D in the 4th (Mitch), it’s frustrating to see him out there when others have been better. It’s as much about Thibs’ lack of flexibility as Hart (though the TOs are killing me).
Wasn’t disgusted by Hart yesterday.
I’d say i kind of admired a few rebs he got into traffic while the comments were vitriolic
Next-day oppo research for ya:
Picking up Indiana’s offense higher up the floor gives our defenders more time and space to make the correct rotations and deny Indiana’s players their preferred spots.
Bridges was face-guarding Hali and not letting him get the ball back in the halfcourt. I think the refs are allowing Mikal some degree of grabbing and holding off-ball. Pacers fans are grousing about it, in any case.
OG is completely neutralizing Nembhard and helping off him at the right moments to blow up Indiana’s possessions.
This looks sustainable to me.
I echo Marechal and Rama. Hart made some good plays but I’m not sure he was a net positive. And he killed is in the 4Q of game 4.
Anyway the idea isn’t to bench him, just be a little flexible in the 4Q.
You can draw the line wherever you want: 8 mins to 4 mins, 6 mins to 6 mins, whatever. But you’re doing the Pacers a huge favor making it 12 to 0, especially when they’re willing to foul to get him out of the game. Let them!!
1) There has been some galaxy braining about Brunson’s value, and I get it to some extent. Defensively challenged guards who score disproportionately in isolation present some problems. That said, last night should’ve made something clear(er): we are nowhere without him. Nothing about this team makes any sense if you remove one of the best scorers in the game from it, even if there are small, somewhat random stretches in which we’re better off with a different look. We will go as far as he takes us.
2) Not wholly unrelated to 1, it is really hard to shake the impression we’re the more talented team. I tend to think that is generally said kind of flippantly and when people say it they’re over-indexing on things like isolation scoring ability, and maybe I’m making that very mistake, but Brunson and KAT can simply do things on a basketball court that no Pacer can match.
3) I wouldn’t draw any real conclusions about Precious not totally killing us in a handful of minutes in which we had already built a big lead. I generally don’t want to see him out there. Nothing personal.
4) Shamet, on the other hand, should presumptively get spot minutes IMO. A sprinkling more if e.g. Mikal is sucking. I won’t overstate the case, but he’s got skills we need.
5) It’s hard to justify given the box score but I still like Delon, largely because I feel like the Pacers do not like when Delon is defending them.
As I said, we still have more to give. OG has a bad game, Hart has been inconsistent, KAT commits dumb fouls, JB turns out over too much – we can be better. And I think we’ll have to be, because a bunch of Pacers simply didn’t play well. Siakam can do more, they can make more of the open threes we still are giving them, and Hali might show out again. We won’t get away with some of the sloppiness next game.
Also, that one lineup from Thibs was practically a fireable offense on its own – Delon-Deuce-Mikal-Hart-Precious, holy cow. We needed to play Precious (and I thought he did well), but that was a trainwreck.
I am not morally responsible for what I post in the game thread. That’s a whole different person.
Thibs’ intrusive thoughts won when he put out a small lineup with only 2 shooters.
Remember how we traded up in the G-league draft so we could take Shamet at #2 and stash him Westchester to rehab his shoulder with us?
Knicks have outscored Indiana by 6 during the series and it would obviously be alot more if the Game 1 disaster hadn’t occurred. I believe Knicks are the better team but the Game 1 debacle might prove too much to overcome.
Yeah, we haven’t given Brunson his laurels – that was a superb game (other than the TOs, which I really hope he limits). He was totally in control when he was out there. Very reassuring.
I disagree on Precious, though, Noble. Whatever Siakam has on OG, Precious has on Siakam. You can see how uncomfortable Siakam is with Precious on him. If Thibs is flexible enough to use him in spot minutes while Siakam is out there, I think we’ll be OK. (Just not with Delon and Hart, too.)
Dude we blew a 14 point lead with under 3 mins left. No one’s chilling up 15 in the 3Q against this team.
It’s two consecutive games Josh Hart hit the self destruct button during his second half minutes. And in game 3 he hit it during the 1st half, which was a big reason we were down 20.
His head has been up his ass a lot.
He belongs in the same minutes band as Mitch and Deuce, not Brunson & Towns.
Siakim is a really good basketball player who has dominated games for years now. His game is a combination of power, size, and skill. His power and size is just a little too much for OG, who could otherwise normally deal with the skill side of things, but Precious can neutralize both power and size, as they’re the same height and Precious is stronger. One has to worry about the skill thing, though…
Yeah, I’m just talking about six minutes, though. I do believe we can survive – especially if one of their bigs is out and the other is a career backup worse than Precious.
Which reminds me, I thought it was big that we kept Turner on the bench with foul trouble. That was smart.
Delon had impact, 3 assists, 1 steal, above average POA defense.
Alas he missed all his open shots, but he was useful and, like Shamet and Precious, deserves kudos for being ready to play despite siberian frostbite symptoms.
“All rostered players are weapons in your toolbox, use them wisely.”
(Rule 2.A “The Minute Police Rulebook, New And Revised Edition”)
Brunson is doing this while being full court pressed and often double or triple teamed for the ENTIRE game. And it’s been this way since game 1 of the Detroit series. And yet he still delivers more times than not.
I like our chances in game 6. We played very well defensively but I still feel like there were unnecessary turnovers, some VERY easy missed buckets and OG and Mikal could still provide us with more (and more efficient) offense. And KAT could commit a few less dumb fouls (yeah right).
It’s not like we won that game because we took a ton of threes and made them at some insane clip. So it wasn’t just a random good shooting night.
I don’t know. Always going to be more hopeful after a win, especially when it saved our season. But if we can come out with the same aggression and focus like we did last night, clean up a few things, get ahead early again…I like our chances tomorrow. And if we win tomorrow in similar fashion (doesn’t have to be a blow out, just a wire to wire victory), I think all the mojo and swagger and confidence Indiana has had most of this series will evaporate in front of the Garden. Game 7 at the Garden with a chance to go to the finals for the first time in 26 years….the crowd is going to be insane.
Getting ahead of myself, lol. Love this team, though.
This is more or less where I am, this is a very close matchup whichever team you think is a bit better and Game 1 probably makes it too hard for the Knicks to win because in one of these games some things are going to go well for the Pacers or badly for the Knicks and it’ll be over.
Anytime I want to complain about KAT’s inconsistency, dumb fouls and defensive lapses getting back after misses at the rim, I remember that is woven into the fabric of who KAT has been for a decade in the NBA. If he were consistent, if he did not commit dumb fouls or if he always hustled back on D after misses at the rim, he would not have been available for Randle, DDV and a lottery-protected first round pick.
I probably will continue to be frustrated by KAT for the rest of his Knicks career. If he ever gets rid of these obvious flaws, he becomes one of the six best players in the NBA (even with the poor handle, difficulty setting up deep post position and slow feet on defense).
Could we put a shock collar around KAT’s neck and every time he commits a dumb foul, one of the coaches shocks him? Maybe that would eventually make him stop doing it.
When I think about adjustments that the Pacers could make to defend KAT, ball denial would be at the top of my list. Over the years, teams have been able to push him off of the block and effectively front him. But, in order to deny the ball to KAT, the Pacers would have to guard Brunson straight up and slough off of the other Knicks (to prevent backdoor cuts and lobs over the fronting defender).
As a team with good defenders, the Pacers can take away any one thing — including KAT. They just can’t take away everything.
With regard to Brunson’s hot start in the 1st Quarter, the Knicks had him moving like Steph Curry for the first few possessions. He got a lot of flare screens. This led to wide open shots. Brunson only kept up this movement for the first five minutes. It burns a lot of energy and takes him off of the ball.
Did we try Mitch on Siakam? How did it look?
Indiana will bring it in G6, I expect a great game.
I love me some Mitch but the KAT + hustlebunnies 4Q lineup has absolutely been killing it. Without Halliburton in the lineup, they cannot take advantage of KAT as the last line of defense, and the defense with some 4-man combo of Shamet/Wright/Deuce/Hart/Bridges/OG has been great.
I would love to see Deuce+Shamet+Bridges+OG+KAT but cannot argue with how well Delon Wright has been playing defensively (kudos to Leon for getting Delon for Jericho Sims — Delon playing really valuable and impactful minutes in the ECFs. That is a home run trade that looked more like a favor to Jericho than anything that would be useful to us).
I would like to see Wingstop do better than 1-10 from three. 1-12 if you add Hart into the mix.
Both teams sucked from deep, to be honest (although we sucked a tiny bit more). Makes me tense to think that whichever team heats up from beyond the arc wins the next game. And by ‘heats up’ I mean shoots league average.
by the way on a per-36 min basis in the 4Q this series:
KAT -> 30.8 points, 50/44/75 splits, 13.9 rebounds, 4.4 assists, 63.6 TS on 28.7 usage
Much of that production has been against the Pacers bench – they absolutely cannot guard him.
I was thinking about a thought experiment – which one of these outcomes would be worse as a fan 🙂
1/ Getting blown out in Game 6
2/ Winning Game 6, but then losing at home in Game 7
3/ Winning Game 6 and Game 7 but then getting swept in the Finals
I think 3 would be best, but damn, that would be super painful to go through mentally
For grins (way above my paygrade), I went to StubHub to check prices for Game 6 in Indianapolis and a potential Game 7 at MSG.
In Indiana, the cheapest tickets are about $250 and they are plentiful. Lower bowl tickets are still below $1,000, except for celebrity row which are about $20k.
At MSG, you can’t get in the building for less than $1.2k. Seats in the 100 section start at around $2k. Floor sets (behind celebrity row, which are unavailable) are about $20k.
If (HUGE IF) the Knicks force a Game 7, I would not be surprised if those ticket prices go up by a factor of 2 (especially for the 100 section). A Monday night Game 7 at MSG would be the hottest sports ticket this century.
Yeah I’ve come to peace with the Knicks losing tomorrow, the worst outcome would be winning Game 6 then losing Game 7. That would probably be too much for me to take…
As I wrote here yesterday, the 1999 Knicks were one of my favorite years (behind only 1994, 1993 and 1984 (Bernard King’s magic)). That team was not good during the strike-shortened season and fell in a non-competitive Gentleman’s Sweep to the Spurs. But, I took great joy in their winning three rounds to face a Spurs team that was just more talented.
johnlocke, none of those scenarios are preferable. Any elimination continues the excruciating drought that we have endured for 52 years. I can stomach a Yankees loss, Giants loss or Rangers loss because I have championship memories to fall back on from 1977 to today.
The Knicks have gone to Indiana down 3-2 three times.
‘94: right after the choke sign, Knicks won by 7
‘95: the 8 pts in 9 seconds series, Knicks were down 3-1, won games 5 & 6 to force game 7.
‘13: fucking verticality. That series sucked so this one doesn’t count.
Another fun fact about Knicks Pacers that I shared before the series:
This is the 3rd time Knicks played Pacers in consecutive years. Both times the series mirrored each other.
‘94 – Knicks in 7
‘95 – Pacers in 7
‘99 – Knicks in 6
‘00 – Pacers in 6
‘24 – Pacers in 7
‘25 –
Swifty, Thibs did it in Minnie on Butler’s suggestion, to no avail (except for KAT wearing only mandarin collar shirts from then on).
Then Thibs did start referring to the players as “My little dogs” and it led to Jimmy requesting a trade.
It went down in behavioral science manuals as “The Covington-Saric Conundrum” and the rest is history.
The stifling D definitely gave the Pacers the Yips last night. I’ve never seen them pass up open threes and I remember once sequence where they kept passing cuz no one wanted to shoot that ball.
I do believe that if we win G6, G7 is going to be a lot for Indy to handle (especially if we come out hot).
If the Pacers decided to let their foot off the gas as some people are saying, that’s a real bold move considering they’re one of luckiest bounces in NBA history away from being tied.
Never anger the basketball gods lol.
Spontaneous Knickerblogger group trip to Indiana tomorrow?
Flight + ticket + hotel seems to be approximately $700.
I don’t know anyone else who would come to Indianapolis with me.
Side note my firm has a preferred traveler program with special rates at the best hotels in major cities. I just looked up Indianapolis and the top choices are Days Inn, Super 8, and the Red Roof Inn.
I’ve never heard of a coach opening his rotation in the playoffs unless it’s to cover for injuries. Pretty crazy that Thibs of all people did it.
This was my key to the game and it will be in game 6 too. Maybe Carlisle will counter, but Indy hasn’t been able to stop KAT or Brunson, so idc if OG, Mikal and Hart are too tired to make a single three between them, as long as they go HAM on D, I like our chances.
Also, we don’t have to avoid a fast pace. Turnovers lead to fast breaks and we definitely want that. The key is to score those fast break points and get back on D (and conversely, don’t turn it over so they get fast breaks).
Safe to say tomorrow would be the biggest road win in Knicks history since Game 7 at Miami in 2000.
Idk, I guess I’m elitist, but I prefer to get stabbed in Brooklyn.
I don’t think we’d get swept by OKC. The TWolves were able to take a game. I can’t remember the last time there was a sweep in the Finals.
Yes, but also don’t force it. We’ve had multiple steals/turnovers in the last few games where we got a fast break but they got a couple of dudes back but we tried to force a shot anyways only to miss it and then Indy got a bucket on the other end. If we get a steal and run down with the ball and it’s not an obvious layup/dunk, take it back out and set it up.
My Indianapolis tour story.
Played there in 2002 with Pete Yorn at the Egyptian Theater. Small room, I believe. In these days I was an around-the-clock pot smoker. Had probably ripped a few bong hits before soundcheck.
We do soundcheck and it’s a totally normal soundcheck. Now we have a few hours to kill, so we all figure we’re gonna go to the beer garden place that’s about a block away from the venue. We start walking over there and a guy who had been at the venue watching our soundcheck comes up to us and is like, “Hey, I’m a big fan, let me get you guys a table at my bar.” We figure he’s the bar owner. We go walking over with him, chatting and making small talk. He was kind of a big guy, maybe like 6’3″, 240 or something.
We get to the beer garden and everybody files in, and I’m at the back of the group. Remember, I am very stoned. Everybody else walks out to the patio and Big Guy pulls me into a little side closet room, and before I know what’s happening he has me in a headlock. He says “I heard what you said back there about my city smelling like farts.”
Now, this IS the kind of thing I WOULD say. But I actually DID NOT say this. So I was very confused. Finally he lets me go and I go join everybody else at the table. Big Guy doesn’t own the restaurant or even work there, it turns out, he just goes there a lot. I start telling my bandmates what happened and they’re all like “yeah sure, whatever dude.” I started wondering if I was hallucinating the whole thing.
Next year, we’re back at the same venue. Same thing, soundcheck, then dinner at the beer garden place. We all reminisced about the fart story. Then as we’re sitting there, Big Guy shows up again. “Hey guys! How you been? Welcome back to Indy.”
Then our bass player starts waving his hand in front of his own face, doing the classic “who farted” gesture.
Great story JK, thanks for sharing! 😀
hubert we’re a few hundred miles away at the moment and debating making the drive for tomorrow. long shot but will throw up the bat signal if we rally
I went to Basketball-Reference to look for Pacers’ all-time statistics and it is a wasteland, after Reggie Miller. He is the only Pacer in the HOF based on NBA play (Mel Daniels and Roger Brown were inducted based on time with the ABA Pacers). The second greatest retired NBA Pacer is likely Rik Smits, who made 1 All Star Team in his career.
From 1977 until 1990, the Pacers did not send a single player to the All Star Game. Only four Pacers have ever been voted by the fans to start in the ASG: Reggie Miller, Jermaine O’Neal, Paul George and Tyrese Haliburton.
No NBA championships. One NBA Finals appearance (2000).
Maybe I’ll just meet Donnie at Smits.
which unfortunately does not exist
This is probably the wrong time to bring this up, but I’m bored and I’ve been thinking about it all series.
Leon has a lot of decisions to make this off season.
1. Will Thibs be back? (probably)
2. Do the KAT and Brunson work well enough together on offense to overcome the issues on defense or should he consider trading KAT?
3. Did Bridges do enough to warrant an extension and permanent spot on the team?
4. How can he strengthen the bench?
5. Can he add a 3&D or 3&D+ starter and move Hart to the bench?
Now what I am really wondering.
Mitch has undoubtedly raised his value quite a bit around the NBA based on his playoff performance.
6. Is Mitch back to being the permanent backup?
7. Will they use KAT and Mitch together much more next season?
8. Do they have enough faith in HUK to consider trading Mitch or combining him someone else to get a significant upgrade elsewhere to start?
If anybody has that kind of faith in Huk, they should be fired. Mitch has been one of our most impactful players. Why would we move Mitch to play a pretty bad sophomore C?
i like keeping the mitch and kat starting lineup next season with hart and deuce as the anchors of our bench
I’d rather be dead in urine stench in NYC than alive coated in fart particles in Indianapolis
Knicks in 7
If Mitch is going to be a 15-20 minute backup player in NY that still has significant injury risk, but you could combine him with a young player or two and get a solid starter (and move Hart to the bench), you lose backup value with the move from Mitch to HUK but gain starter value and add Hart to the bench. But you have to decide if Mitch is going to be more than just a 15 minute backup and how much you lose putting HUK in that 15 minute role.
One of the reasons I bring this up is that Mitch was rumored to already be kind on the block but teams were reluctant to make a move before seeing him play. Now they’ve seen him play and he has a lot value.
Mitch + Bridges + Dadiet + Kolek + all picks for Giannis who says no
Giannis
KAT
OG
Brunson
Deuce
Bench Wright, Shamet, Hart, Precious/Huk/TPMLE big man
65 wins
I love that Strat was actually putting out trade scenarios in the middle of the game thread yesterday.
With that stuff, I’m with Ephus (maybe) and say wait until the offseason. Plus our anger and thus insistence to get rid of various players will likely change (daily).
And if we somehow win the championship we’ll have to tear it down to the studs anyway to avoid failing to repeat due to complacency.
the cba
Milwaukee
Re extending Mikal… I see the arguments for why not but bear in mind there’s really no way we can let him walk, same as OG this past summer. Pretty much the best case would be this might open up the full taxpayer mid level. MAYBE if you squint hard, the full actual mid level if we also let Mitch go. If we don’t think those guys should be part of the team after next season we should trade them this summer.
But the ESPN trade machine says it works
I’d assume you’d have to move KAT in any scenario that brings back Giannis. Perhaps you flip Mikal to one of the up and coming young teams for some picks, then include the picks along with KAT for Giannis. You’d have Mikal’s salary slot available to fill some holes since KAT and Giannis are similar in terms of salary.
not sure the espn trade machine can be 100 percent relied upon to take all cba complexities into account52
Obvs Giannis would be a great PF to pair with KAT and KAT, Giannis and Brunson would be the best big three in the league (and, honestly, one of the best big three’s in quite some time).
But I don’t know. Leaves us even more top heavy that we are now, no? It feels like this new era of the NBA is less about assembling a big 3 and more about one or two stars with a complete supporting cast and bench. We’d have to hope/pray that some ring chasing vets would come here for the vet minimum to fill out that squad.
Just to show how slim the Knick’s chance of trading for Giannis is without (or even with) KAT all picks from the Knicks begins in 2031.
The Thunder, for example, at the conclusion of the season could trade I Hart and Dort (arguably more valuable than Bridges and part time Mitch). Plus they has 11 first round picks at their disposal to trade before the Knick’s first pick becomes available.
That would leave OKC with this line-up Shai, Giannis, Chet, Jay Williams, Cason Wallace and the bench crew PLUS Nikola Topic red shirting this year.
I’ll be there! (And after the Pacers win I’ll take you to the after party in the fabled red-light district, which, fyi, will probably up at Travis’ Best Little Whorehouse in Indiana)
It does, but it’s wrong. The machine still uses the salaries for this year and would have us take on $7.3M. We have $53,349 left to spend this year.
zactly
Insane that Fizdale is getting his third interview for the head coaching job in Phoenix. When will that organization finally hit rock bottom?
If past experience is prologue, Phoenix will hit rock bottom between 19 & 22 games into Fizdale’s second season as HC.
The proposed Giannis trade upthread would not work under the CBA, even though the ESPN trade machine accepts it, because it would cause the Knicks to cross the Second Apron during the 2024-25 salary year.
Even if it did work (which it does not), I cannot imagine the Bucks accepting Bridges, Mitch, Dadiet and Kolek for Giannis. The Knicks have no draft equity to send to Milwaukee. It all went out the door for Bridges. (2025 First, 2027 First, 2028 First Round Swap, 2029 First and 2031 First). There is a chance that after next season, the Knicks would be in a position to trade a 2026 First Round pick, but only if the Wizards 2026 First Round pick falls outside the top ten, so it conveys to the Knicks.
Craziest thing about OKC’s team building is that they have no outgoing picks after this year, and still have extra incoming first round picks in 2026 (up to four first round picks), 2027 (Denver (protected) plus a pick swap with Clippers), 2028 (pick swap with Dallas), and 2029 (Denver (protected)).
I was amused when Macri’s podcast producer said that with last night’s game, Ariel Hukporti officially passed Joel Embiid’s scoring record for the conference finals.
The question contains the answer
My affection for Macri grows
The allegations about Zion are really the nail in the coffin of that draft. The fact we got RJ at 3, and he wasn’t that great but was still probably the best pick is kind of amazing. You can make a case for Garland, but that’s about it. A handful of decent players, a boatload of busts.
Obviously Ja and Zion might both still become franchise players, but all the off the court darkness makes them unappealing anyway. Would hate to have to root for them.
Yet another reason to appreciate YOUR NEW. YORK. KNICKS!
i think we can feel relatively assured that neither ja nor zion will ever be considered franchise cornerstornes at this point
It’s been 24 hours I think the Knicks might have killed Z-Man.
I’m at Millbrook winery feeling no pain. It all makes sense now.
FUCK THE PACERS!
Let’s beat their asses and blow them out at MSG!!!
lot of drankin here
I am day two of shooting and this is all gobbledygook. How the fuck are we two wins away from the finals. Where am I. What is this.
This is nice for the OCDs out there that like neat patterns, but you left off 1993, so your astrological chart is useless.
looks like jobu and some witch a fan paid off are working their magic for us…
have you grown tired of all the delicious cuisine down there, or, just working way way too hard…
I’m about 3 hours drive away and am considering going to G6 tomorrow. If I pull the trigger I’ll let you know Hubert. We could meet up and make fun of ptmilo’s predilection for Michelob.
There’s not a lot of flights to Indianapolis so I’d have to be on 7:25am flight and I think I’m past the window to commit to that.
And Donnie that was a best of 5 so it’s not pertinent.
Concerning
Geo, I’m in the midst of a hurricane of talent. I can’t tell north from south or west from testicles. All I know is the Knicks still have a pathway.
JK, that story was incredible.
I’ve been in Indianapolis a bunch for work. My first time was when I was a Creative Director for Nike Basketball. I was filming some content with Danny Granger, but had a road trip in front of me, shooting with OJ Mayo in Memphis, David West and Tyson Chandler in New Orleans, Caron Butler in DC and then Paul Pierce in Boston.
Anyway, it’s the night before the first shoot with Danny, and I’m at St. Elmo’s with a Nike Sports Marketing rep, who will remain nameless. I’m walking him through my shot list and plan, the usual pre-pro, and he can barely pay attention (few of them actually did or cared). He’s just typing on his flip phone. I realized this and asked, “What are you doing?”
“You comin’ with me to Memphis and New Orleans, right?”
“Yeah, why?”
“I’m setting up road beef for me. You want me to set up road beef for you?”
“Road beef? What is…”
Then I figured it out. “Oh shit. No, man, no, I’m happily married.”
“I didn’t ask you if you were happily married.”
Anyway, Danny was a perfect gentleman and great on camera, and the shrimp cocktail was and always is incredible.
No’Cers.
incrrdible that it is that easy to snag tickets to an ecf game in indy with less than 24 hours notice
plus it seems lie all you guys have unlimted income and time imean i do ok at my unnamed chose profession but doubt i could jet off to indy with no pre-planning for a weekend plus all the associates costs of flying game tix food hotel etc. i am jelly
History has shown we need at least three real centers on the roster because of injuries. So trading Hukporti is out unless you have great faith in Precious as a real center against the NBA’s big guys. And honestly, gaving four in the roster isn’t bad either.
If telling me, Pags, and E to choke on the same elephant dick turn out to be his final words, he went out how he lived.
Don’t forget my Knicks lingerie, geo!
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DKLTWLaA9MC/?igsh=emg0dmduZmMzb3I4
Steveoh, Travis’ is definitely not for you
Consecutive series is consecutive series, whether it fits your narrative or not, so sorry.
Found a date to Indy yet? Have you asked Ali MacNeil?
Which would you rather go to, game 7 vs the Pacers or game 3 or 4 against the Thunder?
Which version of Doogie is more annoying?
There is literally a zero percent chance that Zion Williamson becomes a franchise player. I think he’s out of the league in less than 4 years.
Imagine if we had gotten the #1 pick and used it to draft him? It would’ve been peak LOL-Knicks. The lesson here is that sometimes setbacks are blessings in disguise. There are many paths to success, and the most seemingly obvious one can end up leading to failure
hey g-man, hope all is well on your Friday evening…
I would really really like to see us beat the pacers…those first two games really took the hope out of me though, getting down 3 – 1 didn’t help…
real proud of the group for performing so well last game, still kind of pissed though that it took the team so long to put together a strategy: smother hali, score in the paint and even worse to find a rotation…
not really stressed about saturday’s game…if somehow they can put together another 4 quarters of good play, who knows…
Also, I hate to be that guy, but I do think there’s something generational going on with some of the top American talent. When I look at players like Ben Simmons, LaMelo Ball, Zion Williamson, and Ja Morant, it doesn’t feel like they were held back by a lack of talent—it feels more like issues of entitlement and misplaced priorities. I don’t remember seeing this as much with earlier generations of NBA stars. Of course, maybe that’s just my curmudgeonly side not accounting for how our social media age magnifies every flaw today’s athletes have. But something about the trajectories of these guys feels different from how great prospects have fallen short in the past.
I dunno. I think there’s a noticeable trend among some recent elite prospects where talent hasn’t been the issue—it’s been priorities, maturity, or injuries. While that may be partly a generational thing, it’s also tied to how drastically the pressures and visibility of the game have changed. It’s not that this generation lacks greatness—it’s that the path to greatness has more traps than ever
Isn’t Simmons from Australia?
Just goes to show you that tanking is not all it has been cracked up to be.
@Geo For all its’ flaws, this has been the most entertaining team we have had this century. I can hardly believe it. If we make it to game 7, I’m seriously considering going.
Yeah, Ben has dual U.S.-Australian citizenship. I know he plays for Team Australia in the Olympics, but he was developed in the North American system going to High School and college there. That’s how I look at talent development. So, for example, Hakeem Olajuwon is Nigerian, but he learned in the U.S. system over in Houston. That’s different than someone like Giannis, who is Greek-Nigerian but went through the European system.
Exactly. For every effort to create success, sometimes ish just happens. Something I’m going to try to keep in mind when I’m calling for Thibs’ head.
Steveoh, love the Road Beef story lol
Z-man phone home
Those are both fantastic stories, brilliantly told. Thank you both.
And while I’m not very confident in this take, it does seem like scandals have been a part of the NBA going way back. Kobi. Arenas. Len Bias. Michael Ray. Vin Baker. The entire league being addicted to cocaine.
I do think the social media coverage makes the results fairly different now.
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