Knicks Morning News (2025.05.27)

okc won but hartenstein definitely did not perform well n the big stage last nite just like game seven against indy for us last year

julius did not play well eiter ddv finally did

Hartenstein really shit the bed in the second round last year. He was pedestrian. He’s on a great team now, that likely gets him a ring. Julius has always shrunk in the playoffs. Now in Minnesota, without the New York pressure, and facing lesser opponents with injuries, he had some good games. In the first 2 rounds. But with his constant sulking and poor body language, I was very happy to see him go.

Julius 1-7 for 5 points. Holy hell imagine towns putting up that line. In a must win game. We would kill him on this board.

Questions for tonight:

1. Was the 9-man rotation for real, or entirely a reaction to Deuce and Brunson being in foul trouble at different times?

2. Will Thibs — Mr. The Game Tells You What To Do — look at how much better we seem to play when only one of KAT or Brunson is on the court, and juggle the rotation accordingly?

3. How much will Nesmith’s injury or absence impact what Indy likes to do?

4. Now that Thibs has made an adjustment, how/will Carlisle counter? And will he at some point stop trying to defend KAT with Turner and do what every other team does against KAT?

5. Why is it so hard for us to play a complete game from opening tip to final whistle?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
perfect

Playoff Julius, like Freddie Krueger, is back.

2. Will Thibs — Mr. The Game Tells You What To Do — look at how much better we seem to play when only one of KAT or Brunson is on the court, and juggle the rotation accordingly?

This is the question of the day. I thought Brunson’s post game TV interview right after the game was quietly instructive. I expected him to be ebullient and joyful as his team just staved off elimination with a 26 point swing. But he was clearly not joyful and quite matter of fact with his answers. He did not look pleased sitting the majority of the last quarter when the action was taking place.

Thibs must be weighing in his mind how far he can push this. Self preservation is the most powerful instinct.

But he was clearly not joyful and quite matter of fact with his answers. He did not look pleased sitting the majority of the last quarter when the action was taking place.

I would like to think that Jalen “Winning Is All I Care About” Brunson was only muted because he knew the team largely won in spite of him. But it could certainly also be about riding the bench.

Just weird vibes with this team. Remarkable that we’ve made it this far despite whatever the bleep is going on in the locker room. Teams have won it all in spite of that — the Bronx Zoo Yankees, for instance — but it’s still rare.

Just weird vibes with this team. Remarkable that we’ve made it this far despite whatever the bleep is going on in the locker room. Teams have won it all in spite of that — the Bronx Zoo Yankees, for instance — but it’s still rare.

PJ Tucker should be named “the strong nuclear force” because he is the strongest force in the universe which invisibly has the ability to stabilize and hold the nucleus together.

The more talent a team has, the more egos there are to manage.

Obviously it’s difficult to ever question Brunson’s leadership because of what he has done for this franchise, but he is an all-star NBA player and the captain and the number one option on this team. His dad has an assistant coaching gig solely because Jalen is on the team. To think Jalen has no ego when it comes to playing crunch time minutes in the ECF is wishful thinking.

Hopefully his responses were more about him being disappointed in himself.

This is why thinking Thibs is stupid for not making a change to the starting line up or dismissing the idea that he let Hart take credit for that is really not looking at the politics of a locker room. It’s easy as arm chair quarterbacks to say thibs should do this or that but if he benches a guy and then that dude doesn’t play as hard or plays selfishly or doesn’t communicate with his teammates, it potentially negates whatever gain you get from making that change.

Brunson and KAT are both going to want to be out there at the end of the game but you play them both, the defense potentially really suffers.

So play Mitch at the end of the game, right? Except his conditioning is not all there and if you save him just for the end, you might be in a hole to big to dig out of. Or we could be in the bonus and they’re employing hack a mitch at the end of the game.

We have a great roster but there are flaws that the other team can exploit. Thibs can make adjustments but there are trade offs on all of this.

I think the players probably get along fine and the vibes being off is probably overstated. But I think there are a lot of big egos on this team with all of the talent and managing that is not an easy job.

I agree with Hibs though. Mitch played way too many minutes to start the game last game. I guess maybe since we never went into the bonus, Thibs just figured he’d keep playing him but you gotta save Mitch!

I’d play him 8 minutes at the start of the first and second quarters. Then maybe let him go for 10 in the third. Then save him for the 4th to use situationally down the stretch.

Just weird vibes with this team. Remarkable that we’ve made it this far despite whatever the bleep is going on in the locker room. Teams have won it all in spite of that — the Bronx Zoo Yankees, for instance — but it’s still rare.

This is why it’s still so hard to fully root for them. Apart from the Boston series, where I just pretty much hated the Celtics and that made it easy, I never feel entirely comfortable rooting for the 24-25 Knicks.

Today is a great day to be a Knicks fan. Our beloved team can tie the Eastern Conference Finals today. With a win, the Knicks would take back home court advantage in this series (for what it has been worth).

With regard to Brunson’s muted reaction after the Game 3 victory, I see it being in line with his muted reactions after other wins (other than series clinching wins). He has been all about not getting to hyped for victories that still leave work to be done. It is certainly possibly that he was muted because he did not like riding the bench.

My strategic thought is that KAT/Brunson on the court requires three other very strong defensive players, which probably means Mitch at the 5 and KAT at the 4.

I do not think we have to worry about Hart pouting for coming off the bench.

Deuce is unlikely to pick up three fouls in one minute again.

I hope that Thibs finds ways to attack Haliburton and Obi on defense.

We are on the next step on a long journey whose outcome is uncertain.

If they maintain the current starting lineup, I think they should stagger more or less like this:

Q1 7:00 left: Pull KAT unless this lineup is dominating. Starters + Mitch lineup gets about 4 min

Q1 3:00 Put KAT back in, Mitch goes to rest.

Q2 12:00 Pull Brunson (he could even sit on, say, the 1 min mark in the first). KAT + Deuce + wings (or Wright/Shamet) playing.

Q2 7:00 Pull KAT for Mitch

Q2 6:00 Pull Deuce for Brunson

Q2 3:00 Bring KAT back (play matchups)

I’m not focusing on the wings, or on the non-Mitch/Deuce reserves, who should get some time too. But this gets you to these minute allocations:

Brunson: 18 min
KAT: 16 min
Mitch: 13 min
Deuce: 6 min here as Brunson replacement, but he would get more time replacing Mikal too.

Basically this allows them to stagger KAT and Brunson for 2/3 of the time (8 minutes together, 16 minutes apart). It also allows them to keep Mitch’s minutes in check (he played too many minutes last game and his performance declined).

Also, I think there’s a chance Indy starts doubling KAT in the KAT + defenders lineup, in which case Thibs should probably stagger Mikal so that he’s there as a release point.

PJ Tucker should be named “the strong nuclear force”

ha

I never feel entirely comfortable rooting for the 24-25 Knicks.

LOL, this is ridiculous. Best Knicks team in 25 years with lots of great players and you find it hard to root for them because sometimes the locker room vibes feel off?

I watched every second of game 3 but have had a hard time articulating what we did to secure the win other than “let KAT explode.” The lineup change didn’t seem to work any particular magic, though since it nominally worked I’d definitely stick with it.

I do think we’ve done a better job “defending the 3” as the series has gone on, which is in scare quotes because I mostly subscribe to the idea that the concept boils down to limiting 3PA worth taking as opposed to getting your opponent to shoot a low percentage. Game 3 seemed to have the fewest number of “HOW THE FUCK DO YOU LEAVE [X GOOD SHOOTER] OPEN I HATE THIS GOD DAMN TEAM” moments.

Maybe that’s attributable to the lengthened rotation, which I was very sympathetic to as Knickerblogger’s original Delon Wright booster but cannot confidently say contributed to the win.

All this to say, you know what would be nice? A wire-to-wire comfortable win tonight. See you all in 12 hours or so, when we’re up or down 1 with 10 seconds left.

i do not think one is allowed to call farfa ridiculous he is beloved here

All this to say, you know what would be nice? A wire-to-wire comfortable win tonight.

Yeah, don’t think that’s ever happening with this team.

eye test tells me that the key to the win was palpably better defense in the second half overall but of course especially in the fourth i am not ready to say that it was because jalen was on the bench but our game 1 and game 3 experiences with him on the bench kind of bear that out i am not really sure what should be done about this conundrum except for that i guess i agree that he and kat need to be staggered kat and to a lesser degree og and mikal seem to come to life when brunson is not on the floor we did get a wire to wire win against the celts in game 6 so it is indeed very possible

TNFH, I watched the 4th quarter again and it was no accident that the Pacers only scored 20 points. There was no invisible sixth man blocking wide open 3 pointers, every shot was contested, including Siakam’s made buckets. The defense was just flying around the court, making things difficult for Hali at the point of attack and there were several possessions where Turner had to fling up a contested 3 from the top of the key.

Why we don’t see that type of defensive intensity more often I have no idea, I guess there’s the desperation factor of trailing in the 4th quarter of a do or die game.

The fundamental conundrum of this team is that both Brunson and KAT are two of the worst defenders in the NBA. We have talked about it all year and it’s a problem we can think about more in the offseason.

I hope Thibs can make some useful adjustments tonight. Some good ideas above but it’s hard to escape the thought that our best teams have just one of those two guys on the floor creating offense alongside the four best defenders we can field.

Quite a game last night. Jalen Williams is a hell of a player. How many All-Defense players have put up 34 points in a game on 25 t-shots. He really is something else. I am not going to give Randle too hard of a time. That team is tough.

I would hesitate to read much into post-game interview demeanor. Jalen is always a little deadpan in these interviews.

I hope Thibs has spent some time drawing up counters to Indy doubling KAT when Brunson is out of the game, because it seems likely that’s going to happen.

Shout out to Delon and Shamet for being consummate pros – what a performance for them given the circumstances.

Re Randle – tough game for him. 1/7 from the field but also 5 turnovers. He and Ant both with 5 TOs – brutal.

LOL, this is ridiculous. Best Knicks team in 25 years with lots of great players and you find it hard to root for them because sometimes the locker room vibes feel off?

Well, yes. But I’m not saying you should feel the same as me; I am very happy that this team has come this far and maybe even more. I’m just not super excited and thrilled because I don’t like the demeanor of some of our guys. I loved last year team, it was so frisky and ferocious and gritty and spunky and cohesive. This year they look more complacent and disjointed, even if they’re more talented. I think I’m free to express that 🙂

i do not think one is allowed to call farfa ridiculous he is beloved here

I know you’re not serious, but I’m pretty used to be called ridiculous, and oftentimes people are right about it 😀

that it was because jalen was on the bench

Feels like you HAVE to play Mitch when KAT and Jalen are playing together. End of the game you can do the substitute Mitch in for defense, KAT in for offense thing but the rest of the game when KAT and Brunson play together, Mitch has to be there too. Then stagger Brunson and KAT as much as possible.

because I don’t like the demeanor of some of our guys.

Which guys? Just curious.

Farma is 100% right. All the ingredients of a winning team are there, but there is way too much strategic uncertainty and inconsistency. I feel like I am watching the traffic flow on Queens Blvd – knowing that something bad is going to happen eventually.

“All the ingredients of a winning team are there”

Which is why the Knicks actually are a winning team…

I don’t like the demeanor of some of our guys

Main culprit for me is Mikal. It has nothing to do with the five firsts; it has to do with the fact that he just randomly disappears from games, and it’s even more maddening when you consider how good he has shown to be when focused and engaged.

Second one is KAT. Even if I found myself genuinely liking the guy (which I didn’t think would happen), he tends to be so passive that it hurts and sometimes plays very stupid. This is made more maddening by the fact that he has those moments when he dominates and eviscerates other teams while letting emotions flow.

Third one is Brunson, who is probably the fourth best Knick in history and I feel terribly privileged having him on my team, but who’s grown so complacent about his own playing style that has let some laziness seep into it. Case in point: the looong time he wastes to cross midcourt.

There was a piece on ESPN today that said the Knicks increased their ball pressure down the stretch of game 3, and that this seemed to pay off. In the regular season the Knicks were one of the least ball-pressuring teams in the league.

So this seems like something to watch. Anything that can cause some friction for Indiana’s offense is welcome.

In some ways it’s just hard to buy into this team, probably because they did not close the regular season very strong. Going into the playoffs it seemed like they were limping in a little bit, then it seemed like they struggled against Detroit, even though they took that series in 6. The game 1 and 2 wins against Boston seemed a little fluky: Boston shot so horribly in each of those games and it still took a miracle effort to beat them in each. Game 3 they waxed us. We were great in game 4. Game 5 they waxed us. Game 6 we were great.

Game one of the ECF was an all-time bad loss. Game two was almost as bad. Game three it looked like we were going to get waxed again, but we made another impossible comeback.

It’s a stressful team to root for. Nothing has come easy. But hey, here they are, still playing very meaningful basketball on May 27. I’ll take it.

the looong time he wastes to cross midcourt.

To be fair, he’s been full court pressed and sometimes double teamed basically all game, every game going back to the detroit series. I don’t think it’s really a case of him lazily bringing the ball up the court.

sometimes it is he has been doing that lazy let the ball roll in front of him daring the other team to steal it thing that has crept in for nba point guards the last five years or so it is excruciating to watch whenever anyone does it but especially to watch jalen do it seems out of character i cannot imagine the extra three seconds of not dribbling is helping him rest that much

Doogie, rolling the ball up is a way to delay the start of the shot clock. It eats up game time, but the 24 seconds don’t begin until the offensive player first touches the ball.

Doogie, rolling the ball up is a way to delay the start of the shot clock. It eats up game time, but the 24 seconds don’t begin until the offensive player first touches the ball.

I hate this so much, though, lol. I get it at the end of a quarter or game if you’re behind and trying to get a 2 for 1 or something but it has no devolved to where dudes do it like 4 minutes into the first quarter.

I wonder what the PPP is on possessions where you roll the ball up the floor like that. It might buy you a couple seconds of clock, but it also gives the defense a few extra seconds to get set.

The Pacers have a recent history of blowing the doors off teams in game 4 of a 2-1 series (Cleveland & Milwuakee this year, us and Milwaukee last year), and I don’t think it’s totally random. In addition to this being the point in the series where the pace begins to wear teams down, it is also when Carlisle knows exactly where the holes are and begins to drive a tank through them.

We’re a team with a lot of holes, so I’m a little concerned.

harder for the pacers to build a pace while the game clock is running as the ball slowly rolls up the court…

jalen is a half court, ball dominant, low turnover, bump and grind type player…our team is mostly built to accentuate his skills…

I’m amazed when we can put 120 on the scoreboard…

so, put mitch in the starting lineup – check…

get deuce in early and as much as possible – check…

next has got to be limiting jalen’s and KAT’s minutes together – when they are together they need to play with mitch, deuce and OG…

need to make that 9 man rotation work, more delon please…

To be fair, he’s been full court pressed and sometimes double teamed basically all game

There’s a good chance that all three behaviours I described are directly imputable to Thibs not being able to think outside the box, because you could easily say that:

1) You could run a few more sets for a Mikal middie if it gets his juices flowing, seeing as that middies usually yield decent results.

2) You should run more sets for KAT and his skills (where the hell have the Jokic-esque December passes gone?) and you shouldn’t ever have him in drop coverage. Maybe emphasizing those points unleashes the best KAT.

3) You should have someone else bring up the ball most of the time. The only team that could and would punish you for doing that is OKC and if we ever get to the Finals, well, I know there’s nothing we can do about it. Also, we could run stuff with Hart as a mini-Draymond where Brunson runs around and relocates and has the ball in advantageous position to cook while not being running on fumes.

So maybe I’m reacting to the discrepancy between roster and coach.

The Knicks are going to play a meaningful basketball game after Memorial Day for the first time in 25 years. I’m going to enjoy every minute while we think about strategies to get the most out of the roster in the next 7+ hours until Game 4 starts.

Aaron Nesmith is questionable for tonight’s game.

The Knicks do not have anyone on the injury report.

Let’s go Knicks.

On the WCF front, Alexander-Walker had a great game last and there’s been some chatter that he’ll get way overpaid this summer when he hits free agency. Which is fascinating bc it seems like all the good free agents this summer are Wolves. Randle, Reid, and Alexander-Walker are all up for new contracts.

Aaron Nesmith is questionable for tonight’s game.

That could be really huge. No one else on Indiana can do what he does to Brunson.

I can’t stand Stan Van Gundy but he really nailed one line in game 3: “Aaron Nesmith simply can’t be screened!”

They seem to be making a concerted effort to get the ball across the timeline faster. Quick inbounds off makes, quick outlets off rebounds. Letting other guys take the inbounds when Brunson is covered. And they have been moving the ball more lately, at least until the Iso-Brunson or Iso-Towns starts.

All for it, but it again seems like something that could have been implemented a little earlier in the season.

The biggest complaint most people have is that Thibs seems to have let the paint dry on a team that is less than the sum of its parts, rather than trying out different lineups all season that could be deployed in the playoffs, never mind saving wear and tear on starters.

I think finding Deuce’s true value would have been particularly useful. I love Brunson but I can’t shake the feeling that the difference between these guys isn’t that big given the gigantic disparity on defense. That goes for Mitch and KAT too, although I can’t decide whether it’s to a lesser or greater degree.

Anyway, as I have said a bunch, I am just going to enjoy this team for now and litigate all this later.

While exciting, Game 3 seemed very flukey, which makes me worry about tonight’s game.

OTOH, the Knicks haven’t yet had a “complete” game in this series, so maybe they are due for one tonight?

In addition to this being the point in the series where the pace begins to wear teams down

Knock on wood, we don’t seem to be worn down at all (so far).

If any game was flukey it’s Game 1.

As I emptied the pantry of my thoughts after Game 3, one is that the Knicks got value from the 58th pick in the 2021 Draft. They picked Jericho Sims, who made the roster for 4 years in a row, which is rare for a pick that low. At the trade deadline, they were able to flip Sims for Delon Wright. If Wright’s only contribution is helping to win Game 3 of the ECF, that is a hell of a return on the 58th pick.

So maybe I’m reacting to the discrepancy between roster and coach.

I hear ya. I had to tap out of watching regular season games for a while because this team was so bipolar and frustrating. Consistently inconsistent.

For me, the lack of coaching adjustments since January is what has me suspending judgment on personalities or locker room chemistry. There is so much money left on the table when it comes to maximizing this roster.

Why did we wait until Round 2 to start switching for the first time? Why did we play drop coverage every game despite KAT being unsuited for it?

Why did we have no counters or secondary actions for the KAT/Brunson PNR after teams started putting a wing on KAT and their 5 on Hart? No short roll? No flex action? Nothing?? It’s insanity.

Why did we stick with a starting lineup with such bad plus-minus numbers that was getting outperformed by every other 5-man lineup until we were down 0-2 in the ECF?

It’s one thing if we tried everything we could and nothing worked. But we didn’t seriously try ANYTHING.

I never feel entirely comfortable rooting for the 24-25 Knicks

Like when KAT gets fouled on an and-1 and flexes his muscles, but there is surprisingly little definition to his biceps, it’s hard to really get too into the moment, right?

Why did we stick with a starting lineup with such bad plus-minus numbers that was getting outperformed by every other 5-man lineup until we were down 0-2 in the ECF?

I mean, because we won the first two rounds and got to the ECF for the first time in 25 years and we were only down 2-0 because of an insane Indy comeback in game one and barely lost game 2 as well?

Again, it is so much easier to change the starting line up as an arm chair coach who isn’t in the locker room than it is when your starting 5 has been the same group all season and you’re literally further than the franchise has been in two decades.

Main culprit for me is Mikal.

Second one is KAT.

I agree in part…tough situation to come in to for them both…

sky high expectations with the most scrutiny possible…

I liked that word Bo used: stans…had to look it up to make sure i had the correct meaning: extreme fan(atic)ism…ha, yep, that is sort of us…hahahaha…nice Bo…

I do appreciate their character off the court…enjoy both their personalities…really appreciate their professionalism…

on the court…thought we wuz getting smooth and silky mikal, and he turned out mostly to be pacing himself almost all the time…

KAT has actually exceeded my expectations…

i was going write some qualifier, but no…KAT has performed very well for us this season…

also feel like the longer they both stay here, the more consistent their roles and performance will become…

yes, I did feel different about last season’s squad – felt more full of hope…

no choice but to move forward…I think we have a better team this year…

thibs ain’t a bad coach, who’s to say if he could never win a championship…

opportunity and good fortune happen to us all at times…

I’m with hubie though – pacers are able to adjust well as a team during the playoffs…rick has a tight grip on that group…

I figure us to be down 3 – 1 after this evening…hopefully win the next game at home…who knows though, lots of surprises so far…

I just did not expect AT ALL for us to lose 2 games at home, to the pacers, even though they had just done the same thing to the cavs…

how is the air smelling down there donnie 🙃

I mean, because we won the first two rounds and got to the ECF for the first time in 25 years and we were only down 2-0 because of an insane Indy comeback in game one and barely lost game 2 as well?

Again, it is so much easier to change the starting line up as an arm chair coach who isn’t in the locker room than it is when your starting 5 has been the same group all season and you’re literally further than the franchise has been in two decades.

A bad process leading to a good result is still a bad process.

That could be really huge. No one else on Indiana can do what he does to Brunson.

It’s win-win. Either he plays with a busted ankle while trying to guard one of the quickest scorers in the league, or he sits and Brunson cooks Mathurin and McConnell all night.

If that Thunder-Wolves game weren’t Exhibit A for the prosecution of the NBA’s awful late-and-close-game product, I don’t know what could be. Even boring to watch the game highlights afterward.

I figure us to be down 3 – 1 after this evening

Well Nesmith being questionable might give us a few more chances 🙂

Anyway I have to say that I never ever thought I’d be here debating roster issues with you all on the day of an ECF Game 4 that features us – not remembering the long forgotten days spent having nightmares of Fizdale magic, pining for Mike Miller and finding ways to churn out recaps for that god forsaken team 🙂

I feel blessed whatever happens

To my eye – the biggest difference in game 3 was the fourth quarter that we won by 16 points. And in that fourth quarter two things happened, KaT went nuclear on offense, which is likely not to be repeated. But the other thing was that KaT was the main defensive anchor for the majority of the quarter, where Indiana only scored 20 points. And watching him individually he did a really good job defensively. The question then is why? My theory is — when KaT is eating on offense and involved, he’s more focused mentally in the game, and more aware and works harder defensively. So what do we need to do — feed KAT early and often in the game, to get that same spirit going throughout the entire game vs ignore him for most of the 1st half, like we do too often.

I think finding Deuce’s true value would have been particularly useful.

I don’t think we gave the 5 out lineup of Brunson-Deuce-Mikal-OG-KAT one minute of game play this year.

Dougie spittin’ truths.

I don’t know which is funnier, KAT flexing his flab or Mikal doing bicep curls with his sticks.

Would love a 42-point stamp-down tonight, wouldn’t that be nice; expecting a nauseating, nail-biting rollercoaster ride because Knicks.

KAT playing with a smaller lineup of good defenders was an effective counter to Indiana’s motion offense. Indiana started to play confused. Caitlin Cooper on twitter noted how they kept screening for switches even after getting mismatches on Brunson or KAT, as if compulsively hunting for the perfect shot.

We didn’t need to have a true 5-out lineup either. 4-out spacing with Hart crashing the glass was got the job done.

An example of Indiana getting thrown off their game: the play where Nesmith got hurt, he got the step on KAT, but when Brunson slid over with his hands up to contest, he tried to thread the needle with a jump pass to Nembhard in the corner (as Clyde would warn us not to do). Costly overaggression.

…and johnlocke, I tend to agree with you. The only thing stupider than not getting KAT going early is watching Jalen inexplicably playing iso hero ball in the first quarter. Reverse that, please!

I think finding Deuce’s true value would have been particularly useful.

Deuce was in our #1 regular season 5-man, 4-man, and 3-man groupings by net rating, filtering out garbage time minutes. You’d think that was worth at least trying giving him a bigger role.

yes, I did feel different about last season’s squad – felt more full of hope…

It is funny to read this over and over again from multiple people. I wonder why this is.

My theory. Last season actually wasn’t that great the first half of the season. RJ was clanking open three after open three. Grimes was in a slump. IQ was fine and Donte was a nice addition, but, as a whole, up until the OG trade, it looked like the team had kind of topped out as an above 500 playoff team that is going to be the 3rd to 6th seed and MAYBE win a round. Our youngsters had all kind of plateaued.

Then we made a big in-season trade for OG which completely shook things up and we went on a huge roll after that for a month.

So, IMO, the good vibes from last season were largely due to the giddiness we all felt in January seeing the team jump to a new level. Without injuries, would that have been sustained?

Also, the first round against Philly was lit and, even though Philly was the 7th seed, beating Embiid and Philly, a city so close to NYC, felt REALLY good.

And then injuries derailed the playoffs. So there’s a lot of romanticizing that team with “what could have been.”

IMO, there’s a bit of a “so what” vibe to some of the loyal posters on this blog with this team. We’ve gotten used to being good. We traded a lot for Mikal. We lost the Nova Knicks by trading Donte, etc. So, IMO, some of this “bad vibes” feeling that people have about the team and the locker room is projection by the fans. We’re the ones with the bad vibes, lol.

To put it another way, if this current team had somehow been constructed by Leon when he first got here and we suddenly went from bad non playoff team to 3 seed that won 51 games and is now in the ECF, we’d all be gushing over this team. But because we’ve become accustomed to a certain level of success, there’s people who are projecting their own cynicism onto this team when they’re just going out there and doing their jobs.

fair enuff but the optics of just allowing the ball to roll in front of you is really really bad

i think that some rootability went out the door with ddv and ihart one of them could not be helped and the other one could i remember feeling truly awful upon getting the news on each of these and feeling that altho kat is a truly great player it was not worth breaking up the vibes of the nova four

Magic Kitten Power
A few hours before G3 the three orphan stray kittens had jumped off the abandoned car from its open window and started to investigate the garage! They refused to enter the car again despite me letting the door widely open for hours.
Today a coworker brought them to daylight,at the surface of the building and they started living at the pilotis as they told me.
Let’s see If their magic continues tonight

Sometimes I roll a ball in front of me and just walk behind it. Watching it.

Maybe they’re difficult to root for because we’re so used to rooting for the underdog, and this team with all its established talent is not it.

Would love a 42-point stamp-down tonight

Be careful what you wish for.

how is the air smelling down there donnie

Air is great where I am (hint: it starts with Indian and ends with Apolis). Two can play this game, Chalamet!

One of the things I’d like to see tonight is for Towns to initiate the offense more when Brunson is on the floor. Turner cannot guard him, and it feels as though this would open more space for the others (though it’s harder to do with Mitch on the floor too – but they could still run Mitch-KAT P&Rs with Brunson and the wings spacing the floor).

da rules is definitely on to something and it is totally fine for clarence to roll a ball and follow and watch it because he is not an nba point guard in mid game

Last year’s team was easier to watch and less stressful to root for because they had an identity. I knew what to expect. This year’s team does not, and there’s been a lack of due diligence to work out how to maximize its talent so that it does have a cohesive identity.

(On paper, it’d be running teams off the floor with 5-out and 4-out lineups with the deadliest stretch big in the league and locking teams down on the perimeter with a switching defense led by elite wings… but trying those things out are apparently a bridge too far for Thibs. Josh Hart must be played 40 minutes a night because rebounding is important.)

The Main difference on Rootability between this and last year’s team has to do a lot with over/underachievement imo

I’d rather be dead in New York than alive in Indianapolis.

This team is very easy to root for, watching it play at times however is a different story…

So there’s a lot of romanticizing that team with “what could have been.”

The January Knicks were gone too soon. Because of this, they can never disappoint us or let us down. We can project whatever we want onto them.

For me it’s not really a rootability thing. I have no problem being able to root for them. Don’t dislike any of the players.

It’s more of a momentum thing. You could sort of squint your eyes at last year’s team and imagine them coming together at just the right time, before all the injuries set in. It SOMETIMES feels like that with this team, but sometimes it feels like we’re just flailing and only win when 3pt variance sinks our opponent.

I’m not saying that feeling is true, in fact it probably isn’t true. For all of our struggles, we have kept potential blowout losses manageable and have come back to win three of those now. It’s NOT all luck. It just feels that way sometimes. And I guess some of that is just the nature of the modern game.

I don’t really know what to make of the fact that Thibs actually implemented a bunch of things (e.g. switching, changing the starting lineup, playing a deeper rotation) for the first time in the playoffs, a prospect I routinely joked about during the regular season because it seemed so unlikely after playing 82 games largely the same way.

It might actually be working to our advantage that we stubbornly refused to make any kind of adjustments during the regular season. It’s hard to imagine any of our playoff opponents had much tape prepared for us actually switching sometimes on defense.

Very, very odd way to go about things, and I’ll admit I’m kind of at a loss as to what it means for Thibs moving forward. I thought I reached the point where I didn’t want him back no matter what, but if we make the damn finals…

Swifty, I get your take but it is not that. Last season the rootable January Knicks were composed of flawed and unflawed players we rooted for in the previous season, then added OG, who was easy to love day 1. We grew with them. This year we have KAT and Mikal where we have no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt. If they play poorly and disappear for large portions of the game, harder to root for them given their (non) history with the trajectory with the team.

Also, escape rooms, how are those a viable business. I forewent my breakfast burrito for Jobu today.

Main culprit for me is Mikal. It has nothing to do with the five firsts; it has to do with the fact that he just randomly disappears from games, and it’s even more maddening when you consider how good he has shown to be when focused and engaged.

Mikal definitely makes me angrier than anyone else on the roster, and it’s not close. Sometimes his offensive presence is downright Ntilikinian (i.e. impossible to detect), sometimes he makes his presence felt by shooting almost nothing but midrange jumpers. I don’t particularly enjoy either experience.

I’ll even concede his Playoff Hooper theory has somewhat borne itself out–he’s been able to get us some much needed buckets against stout defenses. But these are mostly isolated instances that we might not even need if his playoff numbers as a whole didn’t suck, largely because he insists on treating all of his touches as if he’s got the ball in his hands down 1 with the game on the line. Would it kill him to be a normal 3-and-D+ guy for 3.75 quarters or so before doing the hooper thing?

I do have to give him a lot of credit for his defense during the playoffs though. It’s the first time all season I’ve been able to understand the hype for him on that end. Like Thibs, he seemed to actually implement the “I’ll save the good stuff for the playoffs” strategy here.

Mikal is definitely frustrating. It seems like he never makes the crucial open 3 when you need it, and he has a .507 TS% in the playoffs, which ranks 76th out of 93 eligible players. He has made some big plays on both ends in high leverage situations though, so you gotta give him that.

Overall though, Playoff Mikal doesn’t look a whole lot different from Regular Mikal.

Mikal’s fadeaways from inside 6 feet make me want to throw my shoe at the TV.

Interesting piece on playoff ball pressure

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45335920/nba-playoffs-2025-hidden-factor-deciding-conference-finals-timberwolves-knicks-pacers-thunder

I thought I reached the point where I didn’t want him back no matter what, but if we make the damn finals…

I grapple with the same thing…think it may help if we frame it this way.

Has Thibs maximized the talent of this team this season and if yes, – is he the right coach to maximize the talent of these players over the next three years?

If good is the enemy of great, then Thibs is really good. That’s what makes it hard. If leon wants greatness, he’s gonna have to risk it all again. Going to be an interesting summer.

Last year’s team made fewer dumb mistakes and out-hustled the other team.

We watched Donte drill 3s instead of Mikal brick middies.

OG didn’t dribble as much.

Neither iHart or Precious got confused by the coverage.

Brunson would pass the ball to iHart for a beautiful 2-man game instead of going 1-on-5.

But….

Hustle doesn’t equal talent.

Donte couldn’t defend Hali.

iHart and Precious never got confused because we never switched schemes even as our defense was slaughtered in the 2nd rd.

Brunson was actually a lot less efficient last year on only slightly higher usage.

Has Thibs maximized the talent of this team this season and if yes, – is he the right coach to maximize the talent of these players over the next three years?

If good is the enemy of great, then Thibs is really good. That’s what makes it hard. If leon wants greatness, he’s gonna have to risk it all again. Going to be an interesting summer.

This is the problem. Thibs IS a really good coach. I mean, look at his career winning percentage as a coach. It’s up there. He will get your team to the dance.

His playoff record is not great but, again, part of the reason it’s not great is because he has taken a lot of teams to the playoffs. That is no small feat.

I also do think there is a possibility that he could still get more out of this team next year. I know waiting on Thibs to change his ways is kind of like waiting for godot but he has shown more flexibility and creativity in the recent past than he did back in the day with Chicago and Minny.

I also think there is somethin to the idea that this core is still in their first year together. And we basically had a very short bench all season and didn’t get Mitch back until mid-Feb and then we lost Brunson for a month. So maybe expecting Thibs this season to implement a bunch of new offensive and defensive schemes, play late 2nd round untested rookies a lot, etc…is maybe too much to ask of him.

From what I’ve seen, Thibs is not so much super rigid as he is super conservative. He’s not going to play a young player much until he is certain that player won’t hurt him too much. He isn’t going to implement new plays on offense until he’s certain the team can execute them.

So many continuity with the bench shored up IS the way to go with this team. We thought we had a good chance of continuity before this season but then iHart bolted and we traded Randle and DDV and the core basically had to be rebuilt right before training camp started.

I’m not opposed to getting rid of him, especially if we end up losing the next 2 games. But you have to know for certain that the person you replace him with is the right guy to take the team to the next level.

Cause in many ways, we are at the next level now, right?

odd out of blue questions

Mikal has doubled his stls/36 and blks/36 during the playoffs. Opposing players are also shooting 10% points worse than expected against him on 3s and 9% points worse on 2s. Sample size and whatever, but he’s been a defensive juggernaut in the playoffs.

I was never a January Knicks guy, but that’s mostly aesthetic; in any event, in the last few days, even Brunson’s reputation has been run through the Knickerblogger woodchipper and so now everyone on the team’s has, and Thibs has been fired by consensus multiple times.

Which can mean only one thing: The Knicks are winning the championship.

Stocks climb a wall of worry; New York sports teams get to the promised land through a torrent of rhetorically-heaved rotten eggs and tomatoes.

Also, playing a 9-man rotation helps us put ball pressure in the last few minutes.

Perhaps being underrated is Brunson needing to sit due to foul trouble, which forced us to use 4 defenders instead of 3 late into the game.

Why did our defense suddenly look better? We were playing better defenders with fresher legs than we ever have before.

The ball pressure article is definitely a good read, and highlights Deuce specifically as someone well positioned to apply it. Of course, it’s an energy-draining strategy that you likely can’t deploy all that much with a 7 man rotation.

A 9 man rotation that includes the Brothers Deuce and Delon? Different story. Something to watch tonight for sure.

I don’t think we gave the 5 out lineup of Brunson-Deuce-Mikal-OG-KAT one minute of game play this year.

Coaching malpractice.

I do recognize that Thibs is a good coach. I also don’t have a better one to suggest this off-season. But the fact he didn’t experiment much during the season, and continued trotting out a primary lineup with obvious flaws that kept getting killed, is incredibly frustrating. If a bunch of bozos on an apparently obscure blog were calling for 5-out lineups or minimizing time with both Brunson and KAT on the floor or featuring the 2-big lineup to protect groups with both JB and KAT, I mean, wtf? Those all seem like good solutions to obvious problems, and two of them have finally been tried in the playoffs to good results. So, I paradoxically have a lot of hope for the Knicks in the next two years, but not a lot right now.

Owen, thanks for that article. I did notice our sudden full court pressure, but mostly just thought, oh, I guess Deuce is gonna make things a little tougher on Hali. Interesting indeed to read about the slight advantage it gives teams… and if it was a coaching change, props to Thibs (much as I continue to believe a better coach would have this team better positioned).

#NEW: An Indiana Pacers fan stabbed two New York Knicks fans while watching Game 2 at a bar in Carmel, IN on Friday night, per court docs. The victims told cops Jarrett Funke was harassing them for being Knicks fans and after he got kicked out he came back and stabbed them. pic.twitter.com/0Q1T3L6MQI— Max Lewis (@MaxLewisTV) May 27, 2025

Thankfully, they both survived and it seems like they escaped major injury. If there were ever a time for James Dolan to score some goodwill…I mean it would be a rounding error for him to fly them out to NYC and give them cushy tickets to any and all remaining games.

The fans told Funke to “go find a Pacers blog” and he took offense.

See how well behaved I am!

Classless trash fans in Indiana. New York City gets such a bad rap. But we are head and shoulders above most other fans in class, knowledge, and behavior. I travel and have lived all over the country (I’m ex military and my wife is current military), and the hatred for nyc is palpable. Bunch of jealous haters. This bleeds into the refs who are biased like most humans.

Main culprit for me is Mikal. Second one is KAT. Third one is Brunson.

Rootability-wise, I think that’s bc each of these guys is playing solo-score-ball when it works or else sucking. Eye-test-wise, the 2024/25 Knicks never seem to pass. They sure do handoff a lot, but that’s boring.

And this year we don’t even get a second unit that runs fast breaks for alley-oops. If we run, it’s just Hart end to end (which is awesome, but not the same as, say, Obi dunking).

To be clear, if/when we win it all this year, I’ll still scream my lungs out at the parade, but our b-ball is fugly.

okay donnie pacers fan, you win…let’s just hope your team does not…

I don’t know which is funnier, KAT flexing his flab or Mikal doing bicep curls with his sticks.

this is why I like to go back through the thread to make sure i haven’t missed something…too funny raven…

Bozos, eh. Well I never.

(Actually I have.)

I just love that we’re all frustrated and whiny and pulling our hair and filled with righteous anger — all justified, by the way, or at least most of it — and yet we’re in the Eastern Conference Finals and one of the last four teams still standing…

Bunch of jealous haters

Um…., No.

Peroneus- would you care to elaborate? New Yorkers and our city are despised by many segments of the American population. Many times by people who have never visited. This is a thing. They don’t like us. Usually this is a form of jealousy.

I spent a good 20 years as a touring musician and have traversed the lower 48 many, many times. Have been to and played in just about every major city.

Indianapolis probably wins the award for Least Memorable City. Culturally it makes Cincinatti look like Paris during the Belle Epoque.

If these guys come back from an ECF 2-0 hole to win the series, would you change your mind, Farfa?

one game at a time

The Knicks had three bench guards: IQ, Grimes & Deuce. They traded IQ to get OG (that worked). They traded Grimes (who had fallen out of favor) to get Bogdanovic and Burks (sideways move).

Deuce is the surviving young bench guard. He may be the biggest bargain of any player in the league. He is signed through 2026-27 on a declining contract that will be only $3.9M in the final year.

Grimes is going to get paid on his contract as a RFA this summer.
IQ is making $32.5M/season for the next four years.

FROM SHAMS:

Indiana’s Aaron Nesmith is available to play in Game 4 tonight against the Knicks after sustaining a right ankle sprain in Game 3, source tells ESPN.

figured as much on nesmith no way he was going to miss this one if even remotely possible to play

@UnderdogNBA
2h
“The Pacers are 26-3 this season (including playoffs) when Tyrese Haliburton scores 22+ PTS.

They are 30-27 when he doesn’t.”

i want to know how the maximum points he can score that gives them a losing record using 22+ when they still mostly win is kind of useless info

Indianapolis probably wins the award for Least Memorable City.

Indianapolis itself isn’t great, but just a short drive away is the Dan Quayle Vice Presidential Library, and yesterday I headed south to the Sweetums candy factory down in Pawnee, and this morning I made a pilgrimage over to Bartholomew County to visit the childhood home of Mike Pence (did you know “hang” was his nickname in high school when he was on the varsity basketball team?). Bunch of jealous haters are you, I say!

i do not think that many here would be jealous of a visit to the quayle joint but i could be wrong

one game at a time

Wasn’t talking to you, Doogie

llcoolbp, at the risk of offending many here (nothing else to do for a few hours anyway), I don’t think most people who dislike NYC are jealous. I think that there is a narrative about the city — it is filled with either aggressive, obnoxious “I’m walkin’ heah!” types or Gordon Gekko Wall Street asshats. That it’s dark and dangerous. That people there believe that they’re better than anyone else and deserve more (see Yankee fans).

My son who’s been there a bunch dislikes it because there are too many people and it smells bad.

Then again when I lived briefly in Watertown, NY, people there were horrified about going to Syracuse. Which, to be honest, I sort of get.

as long as they do not drive into oneida lake they should be ok better taking 11 than 81

Peroneus- would you care to elaborate? New Yorkers and our city are despised by many segments of the American population. Many times by people who have never visited. This is a thing. They don’t like us. Usually this is a form of jealousy.

Sure. I was born in the Bronx and have lived the majority of my life in and around NYC. I’ve lived in The East Village for many years and split my time between NYC in the summers and Florida in the winter.

It might be difficult to believe, but not everyone wants to live in a 1400 sq foot box with other similar boxes stacked above an below it. I currently live 6 months a year in such a box. It is a very nice $2,000,000 box, but it is a box none the less and it doesn’t suit everyone. Some people (like myself) think having 13 Chinese restaurants within walking distance, the MOMA and Broadway nearby are compensatory. Many disagree.

The notion of people in flyover country a somehow jealous of New Yorker’s is incredibly provincial thinking.

I have 2 brother in laws: one an interventional radiologist who could live anywhere in the world but chooses to live in rural Maine. He likes country living. He isn’t a stupid jealous rube. His brother is an engineer who loves living in Colorado and skiing 100 days a year. His lifestyle choice.

I have a college friend who lives in Salt Lake as happy as a clam. I can guarantee you he has never spent a single second wishing he could live in NY. Not one.

My own son is a neurosurgeon who did his first year of residency at Montefiore in the Bronx and couldn’t wait to get out. He moved to Jackson, MS had 2 kids and he loves it there… he can’t say enough good things about the people and he claims they are staying there (much to his mother’s chagrin).

The only thing people in flyover country “despise” about New Yorkers is their provincial arrogance.

I’m not from the city but I get along with most people from the city. NY people are different in general from a lot of other places. At least for me most southerners think I’m very straightforward. I just think I’m honest. Lol

Can’t really imagine being happy as a clam in Salt Lake City unless you’re Mormon lol

or super conservative, which is fine to each his own

Non-Mormon super conservatives flock to Nashville.

So..I’m at my daughter’s spring concert and the next song on the program is called “Orange Colored Sky”

Is this a good omen for our Knicks tonight?

I’ll take it!

You wanna have a productive apocalypse? Ditch the bunker in New Zealond and get yourself a Mormon trad wife or four.

have you tried that it sounds like a lot

Can’t really imagine being happy as a clam in Salt Lake City unless you’re Mormon lol

Of course you can’t. I lived in Salt Lake and am definitely as far from being a Mormon as one can be. If they had horse racing in Utah I never would have come home. It is a wonderful place to live. The beauty… the out doors, the people in the Salt lake Valley are wonderful… far nicer than the average New Yorker you run into in 10th an Broadway in Manhattan.

I love New York. I don’t bother hating on anyone else. But I have been to Indianapolis for a few days once, and yeah, not much there.

But they do have a pretty good basketball team

A trad wife? not opposed. More into the pre-post Mormon men though. But come what may they better be down for some random loud unexpected “BANGS”.

Of course you can’t. I lived in Salt Lake and am definitely as far from being a Mormon as one can be. If they had horse racing in Utah I never would have come home. It is a wonderful place to live. The beauty… the out doors, the people in the Salt lake Valley are wonderful… far nicer than the average New Yorker you run into in 10th an Broadway in Manhattan.

Love that journey for you. Hey, if you can live with a max 5% ABV on beers, more power to ya.

There’s a trap East Coasters fall into where they’re in different parts of the country and assume that niceness means people like you more. People who say hello to a stranger and make small talk doesn’t equal friendship. You’re going to more or less have the same level of community no matter where you go.

I’ve lived in a couple other places. You get bored after awhile because you’ve done everything there is to do.

Also, the food sucks. The people there usually live in blissful ignorance of this fact because they’ve never tasted real jerk chicken or had a half decent dumpling.

It is funny to read this over and over again from multiple people. I wonder why this is.

It’s bc last year’s team was better. Much better.

i happen to like indy from my couple of visits there also love nyc from my many visits there

I’ve been almost everywhere in the US, and in the last year and a half I’ve spent three weeks or more in Montclair NJ, Venice FL, NYC, Edinburgh, Paris, Istanbul, Mongolia, Chicago, and LA. NYC isn’t as special as it would like to believe it is, but the availability of almost everything at almost any hour, in a walkable city, is pretty damn compelling. The fact that its art, music, food, and culture is world-class is pretty great, too.

Speaking of which, I just booked a couple weeks in NYC in mid-June, hoping to experience some Finals action in person … I can dream!

alonso and young already with a homer each in the first

Hubs, you’re basing that one less than one month of play. This would be like saying this years team is a 60 win team based on how we played in December.

Speaking of which, I feel like there’s a game tonight? Could that be true? I’m not following too closely or anything, but seems like a game might be coming up soon…

If last year’s team had 100% health like this one, and played a Celtics team that set records for missing open shots, didn’t have Porzingis, and lost Jayson Tatum in game 4… I mean come on. We’d be the champs and you know it.

Re: NY, I think other fans might be jealous of the attention and coverage NY teams get but I otherwise agree with Bob.

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