Knicks Morning News (2025.05.23)

55 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2025.05.23)”

I hate watching this OKC team but hope they viciously disembowel Indiana in the finals (should that nightmare scenario come to pass)

I actually made a bet on the Pacers at +4500 during the 2nd round so if that does come to pass Donnie will have a friend on the bandwagon. And yes it’s with the same guy I thought might off me instead of paying me if my Suns bet came through a few years ago, so my untimely demise is back in play.

(In my defense, I thought the Pacers would be playing the Celtics, not us.)

educae makes a really good point about the tech that was not given to hali on the choke sogn although unsportamanlike conduct calls happend much moe in football than in the nba

Today is a great day to be a Knicks fan. We have the chance to even the series. Wednesday’s awful loss is now in the past. Our beloved Knicks are four wins away from the Finals.

Twenty-six teams have been eliminated, but we are still playing.

educae makes a really good point about the tech that was not given to hali on the choke sogn although unsportamanlike conduct calls happend much moe in football than in the nba

100%, I see Refs giving out techs for way less. Chet got a tech last night for a dunk and a stare at a Timberwolves player.

There’s a big difference between a taunt and an homage, guys.

hahahaha

Fine distinction!

I cannot imagine a world where the refs gave the Knicks an attempt at a game-winning free throw on a tech for the Haliburton histrionics. A fine? Sure. But not a free throw in a tie game with no time on the clock.

I don’t think the NBA even has rules against general taunts. Only specific taunts. Like if Haliburton had run up to Brunson and done the choke gesture in Brunson’s face, that would have been against the rules, but not a general taunt.

Like Steph doing the “go to sleep” gesture, or even Novak’s discount double check after a big three.

it was an homage to a taunt

I know Thibs would never do it, but how about putting in Delon to send Hali into the first row on a layup attempt?

i like it or pj tucker who is known as an enforcer anyway and we will never neeed him but we might need delon

We would have missed the FT anyway.

A funny thing to me is how often NBA players really do give each other shit about their performance on the court. That bit from Game 1 where OG is berating KAT reminds me of a Desmond Bane fight this season. He got into Santi Aldama’s face, asking him, “Are you gonna f—ing guard anybody?” Aldama responded, “F— you,” to which Bane fired back, “No, f— you. Play harder.” Then he shoved Aldama, screaming, “make a fucking stop!”

Dick move, perhaps, but you probably want dudes like Bane and OG on your team, who really take this shit SERIOUSLY.

yea i have no problem having players who lay into their teammates when necessary even capn spoke up to tell kat to shut it down

man pacers really had some things go their way no goaltending call and the crazy dropthrough come to mind but the missing of free throws is totallly on us i hope we have all been at the line for the past two days practicing

Only specific taunts.

There seemed to be a specific prohibition on the Sam Cassell “big balls” celebration, but Haliburton was given a free pass recently, so I’m not sure about the latest big balls jurisprudence (I am pro-big balls celebration).

It’s true that OKC seems like an inconquerable behemoth, but I don’t care. As BC was fond of pointing out when we reached the 2nd round, you need a seat at the table to have a chance to beat the odds. Plus after game 1 I somehow need us to win this series even more than I thought I did going in–doing so would now heal trauma.

A funny thing to me is how often NBA players really do give each other shit about their performance on the court. That bit from Game 1 where OG is berating KAT reminds me of a Desmond Bane fight this season. He got into Santi Aldama’s face, asking him, “Are you gonna f—ing guard anybody?” Aldama responded, “F— you,” to which Bane fired back, “No, f— you. Play harder.” Then he shoved Aldama, screaming, “make a fucking stop!”

Or, far more likely, OG’s trying to deflect blame away from himself.

I don’t see that as remotely exemplary of “taking this shit more seriously” than the other players on the court. Worrying about apportionment of blame has little to do with caring about the performance of the team as a whole.

If he really *cared* and “took this really seriously,” he’d look in the mirror, shut his trap, and play better. Frankly, a dude giving shit to a teammate in the midst of a 35/12 game while said dude is squarely in the middle of a D+ performance is being a shitty teammate.

Give me the “unserious” 35/12 over the “super serious” D+ every day and twice on Sundays.

RJ would’ve never yelled at KAT…

rj took naps during game breaks

Guys, I don’t really care how good KAT is on offense. He is atrocious on defense and it kills us. I love him and he had a great game and should have earned us a victory in Game 1. But he could be so much better.

We should have put Mitch and Deuce and Delon out there with the 13 point lead.

He is atrocious on defense and it kills us.

Overstated, but in any event it’s not a D+ performer’s place to enforce it. Maybe he’d play better defense if he had less self-centered teammates on the floor with him.

The “he takes things seriously” stuff is same genus, different species as hustlebunny. Has nothing to do with actually as-played basketball.

i have found that my best coping mechanism after wednesday night is to remind myself that okc is just better than both us and the pacers altho i agree with what was put forth about getting to the finals to at least have a chance to change that perception also as mentioned yesterday when we are up 2-1 after game 3 in indy game 1 will seem like a distant memory i predicted indy to win games 1 and 4 and i am so distraught that i was correct about the first half of that i could not have predicted the heartbreak that came our way

In terms of the proffered example, Santi Aldama is a bench player, Desmond Bane a star. KAT, OTOH, is a star/superstar. Notwithstanding the obvious fan club, I certainly don’t want my stars/superstars deflected from their tasks in the middle of a big game by some dude performing at D+ levels. Pretty simple and straightforward.

It’s true that OKC seems like an inconquerable behemoth,

They really don’t seem like that to me. Minnesota just seems like an unworthy challenger.

Today is a great day to be a Knicks fan. We have the chance to even the series. Wednesday’s awful loss is now in the past. Our beloved Knicks are four wins away from the Finals.

Twenty-six teams have been eliminated, but we are still playing.”

Thanks ephus, I needed that!

This team has some titanic pubescence to it… Like you shouldn’t have to have your ass handed to you before you pay attention.

There’s a big difference between a taunt and an homage, guys.

An homage to belittling your competitors? WTF kind of homage is that? When you suborn classless behavior, you get more classless behavior.

If the NBA was serious about ending that crap, all they would have had to do was award 2 free throws and possession like a flagrant and it. would never happen again. Guaranteed.

But the league office likes that stuff because the cretins that like that nonsense will be talking about it for ever.

I’m more than happy to give OG a pass (he’s earned it) but he seemed to have a meltdown on Wednesday. His play down the stretch was as uncharacteristic as his outburst on the bench.

And having a guy you can’t pass to in a tight game bc he can’t dribble or catch a pass or hit two free throws is a pretty big liability, too.

There’s a weird division of labor on this team. On each side of the ball some guys are working really hard to cover for others.

I have never been a fan of KAT but today is not the day to start berating players, their seriousness, their defense, etc. There will be plenty of time to do that after the season ends. I liked what Brunson said at the presser about that game: “Short memory.” I hope this is true and this is how the players feel. We are still in this. There is a must win game today.

adelman in as nuggies coach

I liked what Brunson said at the presser about that game: “Short memory.” I hope this is true and this is how the players feel. We are still in this. There is a must win game today.

I also liked that he took direct responsibility for his failure in coverage on a couple of the open 3s.

OKC is very good on offense, but it’s their elite defense that helps make their offense so good. They seem to win the TO battle a lot and sometimes substantially. You can’t give a very good offense too many extra possessions, especially off TOs.

The thing that worries me about the Pacers is not that we lost game #1. It’s that going on crazy offensives runs is what they do. So maybe Haliburton’s shot was lucky and the missed goaltending call was critical and maybe hitting 7 3s in row was crazy, but don’t be shocked if they have another run of 4-5 3s in a row or go on 17-2 run with fastbreaks. They have a very good offense, they play really well together, have an excellent offensive coach and handle playoff pressure very well.

I also liked that he took direct responsibility for his failure in coverage on a couple of the open 3s.

Leaders and captains take responsibility for things, even at times for things that aren’t really even their fault. It’s a core part of the obligations of leadership.

Non-leaders, non-captains, passengers blame other people for things that often are their own fault. Sometimes showily.

Everyone knows my opinion.

KAT is fine.

Brunson is fine.

KAT and Brunson together is NOT fine.

So we have to try to mitigate the problem with Mitch or Deuce also on the court instead of Hart.

There’s a weird division of labor on this team. On each side of the ball some guys are working really hard to cover for others.

That’s because Hart/OG/Mikal are duplicative and not good enough offensively. Poorly conceived from the time ground was broken on the idea. (*)

But in any event, that’s offseason stuff and that will be the end of my non-direct commentary for the day. It was kind of a strange day to lead with “OG really cares” but there’s another game tonight.

(*) The first one on the list is a 100% team-first baller and shouldn’t sacrifice a thing to the other two — reputationally, minutes-wise, role-wise, etc.

What impresses me most about the Thunder is that they can play any style successfully on both ends. Big, small, fast, slow, inside, outside. SGA is one of the very best midrange shooters I have ever seen, and uses that ability to get the defense leaning, setting them up for drives where he has to be fouled to stop. And not only do you not have to hide him on D, he’s an asset there…not Jordan or Kobe, but very solid.

Can they be beaten? Sure. But they are very, very good, and lots of fun to watch.

What impresses me most about the Thunder is that they can play any style successfully on both ends.

The thing that I’m most impressed by OKC is their stealth runs later in the game. You know, the game is close, close, close, suddenly they’re up 16. It seems like that happens every game, as they wear the other team down by throwing 10 fresh players at them all game, so as the game gets late, suddenly their advantage in “freshness” erodes the other team’s defenses, and a close game is a 15-point game. It happens so consistently with them, so obviously it’s their game plan, and that shit is effective as fuck.

It reminds me of the old school Spurs, which also had a crazy nice bench led by Manu.

The Pacers seem like the perfect team to beat the Thunder bc they employ the same strategy and wouldn’t get worn down. Too bad they won’t get the chance.

Brian, it’s not that the players are fresh as much as they are really good AND fresh. The guys on their bench would be quality starters on lots of teams.

as the game gets late, suddenly their advantage in “freshness” erodes the other team’s defenses, and a close game is a 15-point game.

This is, of course, exactly what Indiana did to our defense in game 1, except it turned a 15 point game into a close one.

It happens so consistently with them, so obviously it’s their game plan, and that shit is effective as fuck.

Again, ditto Indiana. I hope we are finally prepared for it.

Brian, it’s not that the players are fresh as much as they are really good AND fresh. The guys on their bench would be quality starters on lots of teams.

Oh true, other teams try the same thing, OKC’s advantage is that they just have SO MANY fucking good players on the team.

Days it’s a great day to be a Knicks fan:

Wednesday, Friday, Sunday

Days it’s not a great day to be a Knicks fan:

Thursday, Saturday, Monday

That’s because Hart/OG/Mikal are duplicative and not good enough offensively.

I disagree with this strongly.

We finished with the 5th best offense in the league despite a weak bench and unimaginative offensive coach.

OG is at his best best as a 3&D wing that can cut and finish and leak out and finish. Where he has issues is finishing off the dribble, but he’s scores plenty at good efficiency and showed he could do more when Brunson was out.

Hart is best in transition, finishing off the dribble and getting OREBs. He has some issues with confidence and consistency from beyond the 3 point line.

Mikal can do a little of everything, but he’s elite in mid range off the dribble.

They are nothing alike except they are all very good wings that are not All-Stars. Our two all-stars are a PG and C.

They are nothing alike except they are all very good wings that are not All-Stars. Our two all-stars are a PG and C.

It’s the fit with all stars that’s the problem.

“Oh true, other teams try the same thing, OKC’s advantage is that they just have SO MANY fucking good players on the team.”

So many and so good that they don’t really have to do a consolidation trade except for cap purposes when that becomes necessary.

how about putting in Delon to send Hali into the first row on a layup attempt?

Yeah it’s funny. If this were baseball, Hali’s showboating would get one of his guys beaned or worse. I guess basketball players get too tired, but baseball players stand around a lot and have energy to burn.

I can’t think of a team that has ever had more good players than OKC

Yeah it’s funny.

Actually, it is not. Real physicality is not the only one, but is a major way to impose our will and determination on them and slow them down. We frequently complain about how Brunson is defended physically and fouled on every play. We need to do this to them. Nothing dirty, but hard physical play. They should know there’s a price to pay for their drives.

Owen, not sure how you would define good, but above league average in some metric, perhaps adjusted/changed for the last 40 years of evolution, seems fair. No idea of how to do that, but I bet there are a bunch of teams. But like you can’t think of one, perhaps because of the big 3 bias of the last 18 years.

That said Owen, Cleveland mid 80s springs to mind. Great team, on paper best team starting 5, deep, but in the East facing the Celts, Pistons, and early Jordan Bulls in their playoffs each year. Plus a few injuries/off court issues.

One concern I have about the Knicks playing more “physical” with the Pacers is that KAT picks up a lot of offensive fouls when he sets screens.

using the somewhat capricious threshold of players with a positive bpm in at least 750 minutes, 24-25 okc is the first team to ever reach 11. previous record was a 5 way tie at 10 including three different spurs teams. a weird adjacent fact is that prior to this year, the record for players with at least 500 mins and a bpm above 1 was the 15-16 spurs. then 3 teams did it this year, including okc. reminder that bpm is very fiscally responsible and doesn’t inflate by construction.

The ‘15 Warriors had ten guys play 1000+ minutes and they were all good except Marreese Speights. The Thunder don’t have a Marreese Speights, so I’ll give them that.

(Speaking of the Thunder and Marreese Speights, in a pregame interview that year they asked Billy Donovan what the game plan was against the Warriors and he said “we’re gonna let Marreese Speights shoot a lot”.)

The Thunder remind me a lot of the old Spurs, with Shai being a guard version of Duncan: elite at everything without drawing a whole lot of attention.

Both those teams look(ed) pretty normal in any random two minute eye test sample, but the aggregate performance was often just dominating over the course of a game, series, season. Very few real weaknesses.

I’m glad my Spurs comparison had some merit to it!

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55 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2025.05.23)”

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