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113 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2025.01.14)”
we were so back. . .but now it’s all over again
Thibs delenda est!
2 players get targeted consistently on defense , but if you swap one out the offense would collapse.
Shamet vs Dadiet- on a smaller note, I would like to see some perimeter wing size off the bench and a Shamet,Payne and Mcbride lineup is way to small and needs to stop being played. Let Dadiet play.
Could be reasonably inferred from the ridiculous isos they’ve been running for him of late, including down the stretch against Orlando.(*)
Say whatever you will about this, but one thing you can’t say is that he didn’t bring this with him from Toronto. It was part of the package in which Leon invested, beyond question.
OG’s now with his second group that has been an underachieving disappointment. His teams have never really played very good defense, and in particular have always ranked low in both allowing trifecta attempts and in trifecta percentage.
Now, is it possible that OG’s just unfortunately been saddled with two groups that have let him down? I suppose that hypothesis can’t be disproven by the iron laws of statistical inference, and if one was of that mind, the “January Knicks” may lend some short-term support. But the record is the record.
In OG’s defense, it is in fact difficult to play with two usage-soakers who are meh to poor defenders. If you’re then under the delusion that you, too, bring a lot of offensive pop to the table then, yes, mentally you will start to get annoyed. It’s not easy for talented humans to face their limitations honestly, and a big part of man management is managing that ego. It’s not OG’s job to manage that, or his job to manage the hogging and chucking that is now too frequently issuing from Heather 1 and Heather 2.
Part of the reason Heathers is such a great movie is that, irrespective of the fact that Winona Ryder is by all accounts, public and private, an incorrigible kleptomaniac, is that the film’s theme is decidedly anti-clique. Also in OG’s defense, it’s frustrating to have to work and operate in a cliquish environment. It’s also not OG’s job to manage that situation.
(*) “Send Fredo off to do this! Send Fredo off to do that!!”
Didn’t realize Pistons are 21-19 right now.
What do you want on the second night of a back-to-back?? I guess the consensus here is 8 minutes less playing for each starter and 40 minutes more divided among Precious, McBride, Shamet, and Payne? (No Sims last night) Maybe Payne’s and McBride’s fresher legs could’ve better harrassed Cade and Beasley?
Maybe OG needs to cook on offense with the 2nd unit. That could be a scrappy 5.
Yes play the 18yo rookie who sucks in the G-League, that’ll solve the bench problems.
Lil’ Penny,
There’s no question that OG is a top defender in the league. What the team as a whole does is less relevant. I’ve been saying for a long time that having more than one weak defender on the court tends to compound into bigger problems.
Right now, I’d say Brunson and Towns are weak, Hart and Brdges are not defending as well as needed and OG had been defending very well but his energy seems lower lately. Whether he’s just tired or frustrated with his role (or both) I don’t know, but if he’s tired that would be easy to fix if the coach wasn’t a crazy person and just gave him a game off or reduced his minutes.
If he’s frustrated by his role, I think he’s going to have to understand that his handle, finishing ability in non dunk situations and shot off the dribble are not good enough for isolation opportunites or higher usage. If he wants to score more, then improve his skills!
We don’t need that from him anyway. We have the 2nd ranked offense overall with Brunson and Towns as 1a and 1b, Bridges now becoming the 3rd option and OG and Hart not far behind.
What we need from OG is to hit open 3s (mostly from the corner) and find oppotunities to cut and to leak out. Just give us an efficient 15 and the defense we know he’s capable of and he’s perfect
Maybe he has a somewhat delusional view of what he’s capable of on offense, but Brunson, Hart and Bridges (especially Brunson) have to get back to more ball and player movement so non iso opportunities open up for OG. Right now way too many possessions are just Brunson dribbling around trying to create something for himself and if he doesn’t then someone else has to try. That’s a BAD offense even if it pads Brunson’s scoring stats.
The defense is a different issue.
When Mitch comes back I think Thibs will experiment with the Mitch/Towns combo. I see no reason that can’t work better on defense than what we have now. Then OG to can slot back down to SF, Bridges goes to SG and Hart becomes an energy player and depth off the bench. The offense will have less spacing, but the OREBs will jump and there will be sombody in the paint that can defend.
In the mean time, what we are doing defensively is not working. That’s partially on Thibs to make adjustments. I’m not smart enough to know what those adjustments should be.
I think OG might only be a catch and shoot guy, with dunks and putbacks, whenever i saw him (trying to) cook, i didn’t like it at all.
But yeah, it’s worth a try, and probably wouldn’t hurt the bench production as they’ve been bad.
Kudos for letting go the “i’m right and you’re all dumb” and instead posted a nice and balanced comment about OG. And even funny in the Winona bit.
If those OG rumors were to be true, that would be a huge problem. Not because we can’t accomodate him (we shouldn’t, though) but because it would be a reprise from his Toronto days and would paint him as dumb and delusional, and I want none of that on this team.
I haven’t seen any rumors about OG being disgruntled. Is this something that’s actually been reported somewhere, or are we in Armchair Body Language Analyst mode?
In any event, Macri made a glass half-full point it’s hard to disagree with–if you were told before the season OG and Mikal would each be shooting ~34% from 3 at the halfway point, 26 wins would’ve sounded like a damn miracle.
That said, it’s absolutely fair to wonder if the insane minute totals take a toll here. 3PT% is certainly volatile, but I could buy that there’s a fatigue element at play.
I’d say the same thing about the defense of both guys. There are countless people better at analyzing this than me, but does anyone feel like we’re getting consistent fringe DPOY level play from either of them? Certainly in flashes/spurts, but I mean, that’s flatly not going to cut it with this team construction.
We could certainly benefit from an acquisition or two, but I think above all we need these two to make the “play better” adjustment.
I’m at the point where it’s halfway thru the season so from now on I just want to enjoy watching them play and hope they win games no matter how. Every game has felt like a referendum on the team, their championship odds, the front office, Thibs etc. It’s wearing me out and taking the joy out of the games. Last night sucked but it was actually a very fun game to watch.
Knicks are on a 52 win pace although their pt differential says they should be on a 56 win pace. I just want them to finish with the 3rd seed and come playoff time let’s go and take their best shot.
Weird times for my sports Fandom. The only thing I have is Notre Dame in the Nation Championship Game. *sigh* and they’re probably gonna get washed by Ohio State because we don’t do well with explosive teams.
Let’s see…Knicks lost to Detroit at home again. Mets act like they don’t want Alonso back. JUST SIGN THE GUY SO WE CAN HAVE A 2-3-4 OF LINDOR, SOTO, AND ALONSO!! My Hoyas look like they’re playing well on the surface, but they are still pretty damn shaky to me. And my Cowboys are SERIOUSLY considering hiring Prime to be the next HC. WTF JERRAH?! I am sick of seeing the team slowly plod through the offseason when changes need to be made.
I’m just all kindsa confused right now lol
And yes- my Fandom is all over the place. I have legit reasons for following the teams I follow:
Hoyas- My brothers went to Maryland and Howard for college and we watched alot of college hoops when I was a kid- particularly Big East basketball. John Thompson and his squad had me captivated with their presence back then.
Knicks- Used to watch Georgetown games as a youngin. Found out their best player played for the Knicks. Then found out ‘Nique had a brother that played for the team as well. So all in all..it was Gerald Wilkins that sealed the deal for me lol
Mets- As a Marylander, Eastern Shore at that- all we knew were the Orioles, Harold Baines, and the MLB stars of the time who were 95% white. Started watching baseball because of my father, then I stumbled upon Straw, Doc, HoJo and the crew. And holyyyyyy fuck was Straw just DIFFERENT. And you gotta understand- where I was at that time, we knew very little about african american stars of the MLB. Probably because they weren’t mentioned much if any back then. So me seeing Straw made me feel like I could play the outfield too. Instant Fandom.
Notre Dame- Joe Montana was my favorite NFL QB for a very long time. Found out he went to ND and started following the team when Tony Rice was QB.
Yeahhhh..I’m a weirdo lol
Raises a very interesting meta question(s) that I’ve also thought about quite a bit. I think you’re right.
I want to see them play the playoff games with a full and healthy roster. Doubt that will happen, but sometimes we’re pleasantly surprised.
“Word is OG is not happy with his role on offense. I guess he feels like he’s getting frozen out by the Villanova boys on offense and then has to cover for them on defense all the time. That could be part of why his effort on defense has not been up to the same level it was when he was blocking a lot of shots and stealing/deflecting the ball. He may be tired, but he’s also not happy.”
How ironic that the guy who screams at the top of his lungs about the corrupt media making up narratives is doing that exact thing right here. Shame on you, strat.
I’m hoping we get there healthy. This is a different era. Training is more specialized these days, and the style of play has changed. In the 90’s, teams were buoyed by starters who played 35 or more minutes a game. And they handled it because of how they trained. Athletes don’t train that way anymore, and I’m not sure if they are training smarter or not. I’m worried sick that we may lose some rotation pieces for the playoffs..at least a decent chunk of them. We’re getting to the point of the season where other coaches are gonna play their guys heavy minutes as much as possible. But Thibs has been doing it all season. I think the guys we have are tough and led by probably the toughest pound for pound guy in the league in Brunson. But if we don’t get at least one guy on that bench that will consistently play more than 15 minutes a night, we might be in trouble. We need a 6th starter. And we may need to trade Deuce to get him. Ugh..I just got sick to my stomach at the thought of not having Deuce on this team
OG needs to play the Metta World Peace role from the championship Lakers. He simply can’t operate in traffic off the dribble, any good defender can force him into a turnover or bad shot.
He needs to limit his game to cuts, straight line drives, and catch and shoot 3’s with modest attacking of closeouts for a midrange pull-up. The one exception is that he actually has a decent pull up from 15 feet game. Taking that shot late in the shot clock is acceptable.
Otherwise, smart playoff-level defenses will funnel the ball into him in iso situations and “let him go to work” to their advantage.
OG does do a very good job posting up smaller players. When he catches the pass deep in the post he’s very efficient. But yeah the random ISOs where he tries to dribble one on one from the perimeter have got to go.
It’s a back-to-back against a good young team and Cade was hitting shots over strong contests, but contenders don’t need excuses because they win games.
Hart said they needed to stop playing with ego after the OKC loss. Sounded like generic “we need to play like a team” speak to me, but maybe there is something there. He didn’t name anyone. People ran with it, naming everyone, before landing on OG who does seem like the best candidate based on the forced isos.
There were rumors coming out of Toronto pre-trade that he wanted a bigger piece of the offense. If he is dogging it, that’s a long-term problem. He absolutely should not be given iso opportunities.
He led the team in shot contests and deflections last night. But there could always be something deeper than the boxscore going on.
There may have been other reports I haven’t seen.
The real issue with the offense, if there is one, is Mikal. He has not really been justifying the 5-firsts investment in a 3rd option-level scorer…the shot creation just isn’t there on anything close to a consistent basis. That void is shifting the offense to Hart and OG.
I think the injuries to Precious and Shamet in the last preseason game really messed things up for the rotation. Deuce being in and out with injuries also hasn’t helped.
During preseason the 4 man bench lineup played really well together and seemed to have an uptempo, active defensive identity. Shamet was also firing away from 3pt but since returning he seems very reluctant to shoot many 3s. Can’t imagine he’s feeling really healthy with that shoulder.
EB, everything about OG has been pure speculation. Nothing said has been verified, like, ever.
There are plenty of reasons to criticize folks without giving lip service to bullshit like this. There is no evidence that OG is dogging it, none, zero.
Not sure why I clicked the link at the top, but does anyone seriously disagree that Jalen Brunson is a better Knick than Melo? Or will be within a year or two if accumulation matters?
That is in reference to comments Jeff Teague made on some pod, where he described Brunson as “the best Knick since Melo.”
Also, who knew Jeff Teague is a 2x NBA champion. I did not know that and I bet few people can say which two teams he won with. I sure as heck can’t.
Edit – I looked it up and Jeff Teague is not a 2x NBA champion. He is a 1x NBA champion and allegedly a 2x NCAA champion, which he isn’t either.
Shamet seems undersized and erratic. I am not feeling the need to keep him on the roster. He has played replacement-level ball for most of his career, including last year for the Wizards, and the two years before that with the Suns. I’d way rather see Dadiet fumbling around out there than a confirmed scrub.
We seem to minimize how good Melo was his first few seasons with the Knicks. The acquisition cost is also seemingly held against him.
But yeah Brunson will easily go down as the best Knick since Ewing although KAT might give him a run for that title.
Melo was a legit MVP candidate in 2012-13 so I don’t think it’s some kind slight for Brunson to be called the best player since the Melo of that year.
OG is T-19th in deflections per game and T-25th in shot contests per game. Every player ahead of him in shot contests is a C.
Maybe the numbers lie, but he certainly seems good on defense and these aren’t numbers you put up if you’re pouting.
Brunson was a better MVP candidate last year than Melo ever was.
Our obsession with gangly Frenchmen never ceases. Personally, I don’t need to see Dadiet out there until he demonstrates he is actually an NBA quality player in the G-League.
The Mikal experience has aged me. He sucked to start, then looked like a downright bargain for a 20 game stretch or so, and is now kind of muddling along. He did shoot well last night, so hopefully the return of Christmas Bridges is imminent.
Fully agree. It’s not fun for every damn game to feel like the Super Bowl. I try to stick with big picture until there’s enough data to alter it:
-We’re good and fun to watch, usually
-We’re a full tier below the genuine contenders, but at the top of the next tier
-Mitch looms as an x-factor
-We should have a 3-4 year window
-There are probably feasible transactions that could get us to contention, but with our limited remaining asset chest finding them will take a lot of skill
I will take it, it’s hardly a bad place to be. But I do want some short-term changes geared towards not having our best players regularly play 40 minutes, because that’s the kind of thing that could make everything materially worse.
Bondy says we’re trying to move Sims for a 2nd. I suspect it’ll be a heavily protected 2nd to the point of irrelevance. Wouldn’t surprise me if we send something out instead.
I’m reading this as moving him into space for a 2nd, which means we intend to call someone up or make another deal. It might be Warren time if we can find something.
lol…the bench is comprised of shoot first chuckers. Only time I’ve seen Cam Payne pass is when he’s inbounding the ball. He froze KAT in the 2nd half and waived him off last night. Will only to pass to OG if he’s trapped and falling out of balance. OG is surrounded by shoot first guards.
Think OG should embrase 10-12 FGA per game and play his maniac defense blocking shots all over the floor that he played in December. He got his $200m, forget personal numbers and focus on winning. That should have been the conversation Leon had with him during contract negotiations.
“Brunson was a better MVP candidate last year than Melo ever was”
Whatever.
Mitch and TJ could be all we need, honestly. At least for now. Not enough to win it all, this year, but enough to shore up what we have and give us a true feeling of what is possibly missing for next season.
From SI.com but reported elsewhere:
Josh Hart:
We can speculate on which player(s) he was referring to, but it’s probably not the 3 Muskateers or Towns and we barely play anyone else.
Then supposedly last night Brunson called for OG to switch on some play and OG just looked him off and didn’t do it. The person that reported it speculated it must be OG that Hart was talking about.
Finally, imo there has been a noticeable drop in OG’s shot quality from 3 compared to the ideal. Maybe some of it is planned, but it reminded me of KP when he was playing with Doncic. Doncic would often freeze him out and take a trash shot rather than pass to KP. KP’s reaction was to lower his own shot selection when he finally did get the ball.
When OG came to NY he was unhappy with his limited role in the offense on Toronto. So there’s a history of him getting annoyed at what he perceived as too limited of a role on offense.
OG may not have said anything to anyone, but I think there’s a pretty good chance he’s not a happy camper right now and it may be impacting his effort on defense and shot selection.
For the record, I don’t think the problem with the player and ball movement is with OG, Towns or Hart and I don’t see Bridges forcing too much.
I suspect a lot of people land on telling OG stories because he has a facial expression that almost always looks slightly disgruntled, and combine that with his absolute refusal to show any emotion, including positive ones when something good happens, it can look pouty. But that’s on the story tellers.
But as I said before, he really needs to spend the off-season working with Hart on his layups. And maybe with Brunson on his dribbling.
He’s very good on defense, but I’d be interested to see where his contests, blocks, rebounds, steals, and deflections are since we started this little swoon. He was obviously a very happy camper and full of energy earlier in the season.
Mitch solves rim protection. Thats 50% of the problem.
2nd unit needs to play with an established PG that can run sets and hit an open three. Not Payne, Deuce and Shamet. They’re all score first combo-guards. JB is enough of a chucker. Need to feed OG, MIkal and rest of our bench during these minutes.
This is why Kolek makes most sense to play 12-16 minutes every night with a bench unit. He’s demeanor is best suited for a career backup to Brunson. Deuce backs up Mikal and plays when they go to three guard lineup. Payne is only a once in a while energy when we need to go on a run becuase JB doesnt have it. He’s just not a consistent solid back up. These are Thibs’ self made problems.
There’s a difference between a fan reporting that there’s a growing consensus among fans that a specific player may be unhappy based on general teammate comments, his history of discontent with low usage, subpar recent performances and looking off a teammate on defense vs. paid journalists whose job it is report verified facts on private sector and government corruption hiding such things and protecting some people and attacking others with spin and outright lies.
One is discussion and speculation with no impact.
The other is metaphysically evil wildy arrogant vermin thinking they are above us and should help their friends impose their will on us rather than giving us facts and allowing us to decide for ourselves.
,
January vs Whole Season
Deflections 2.4 vs 3.1
Shot contests are identical
Blocks 0.6 to 0.9
Steals 1.0 to 1.4
So yeah, at least since January most of these are down. It’d be slightly more pronounced if I did pre-January instead of whole season, but you get the idea.
I saw the Josh Hart clip where he talked about agendas. I don’t think he was singling anyone out, he was just uttering generic cliches. Looks bad in writing but seemed benign when he spoke.
I’ve been trying my hardest after every impressive win and disheartening loss to make the point that nothing has changed long term.
We still need a backup C (maybe Mitch) and someone that can score off the bench. In an ideal world we’d also find a 3&D rebounding PF to play next to Towns and help with the interior defense, but maybe the Mitch/Towns combo will be a net positive defense vs. offense and we can stay with that.
IMO, one thing and only one thing has changed.
The minutes allocation has been so extreme a reasonable case can be made that this is a tired team and a couple of the players have been playing with injuries and are at less than 100% because of the lack of depth and Thibs total lack of long term thinking.
Thanks for that work.
I guess my eye test was accurate in this case.
For me, the question is how much of that could be because he’s tired (which was my original thought given he’s playing way more games/minutes than usual) and how much is that the speculation that he’s a bit annoyed is true.
I didn’t see the play where he supposedly refused to switch with Brunson. For all I know it was the right play, but the person that reported it immediately went to the “OG’s not happy narrative”. He was trending on X.
I think, moving forward, we should not refer to “contestable interpretations of vague athlete speak” as “reports.” Not to go all Doogie, but that’s confusing and misleading.
Anyway, just being able to dump Sims’ salary would be a win so even if the pick we get back is fake, I hope we do it. Nothing against the guy, but when every last cent counts he’s tough to roster. I wonder if the plan is to call up/sign Moses Brown if we’re able to dump Sims. He’s not going to change our lives, but I’d prefer him to Sims.
Then supposedly last night Brunson called for OG to switch on some play and OG just looked him off and didn’t do it.
not what happened.
That’s a much better way of saying my original post wasn’t clear what I meant by “word is”.
Here’s the alleged non-switch:
https://twitter.com/DJAceNBA/status/1879002738471973347
Brunson is saying something while moving his hands at the beginning of the clip — it is not remotely clear what he’s saying.
The Pistons run the same action they ran last play, so the complete speculation is that Brunson was calling for a switch before the action starts.
OG doesn’t turn his head and stays on Harris.
After the pick both Mikal and Brunson are on Cade who swings the ball. Hart is forced to closeout and the ball is swung to the corner for a made 3.
After the play Hart is putting his hands up and yelling. Supposedly, he’s looking at OG when he yells.
This ignores the fact Hart starts yelling immediately after his closeout and he’s not looking at OG.
It’s all armchair bullshit right now.
I just saw the play.
As Brunson was walking towards the paint with Hardaway, it looked like he may have said something while looking at OG. In slow motion you can kind of see OG half glance over and ignore whatever it was. Then when they get into the paint it looked like Brunson was counting 3 seconds for the ref.
If anything, I think Hart is pissed at Mikal and Brunson for doubling and forcing him to closeout.
If you look closely, Hart gives a little shrug before the closeout out like “wtf guys, he’s wide open?!” He didn’t look like he was expecting to close out either, he was sticking pretty close to Beasley, which seems like the right play.
When Hart yells at the end of the play you can see Mikal turnaround and start saying something to Hart.
It’s more armchair psychology, but if people are gonna do it, they should do it right.
+ 1 thousand
to expound a bit, if you view the roster’s athlete’s as long term investments, thibs absolutely stinks – i am about a million percent confident we can get another coach in here to at least get similar results and not mismanage an athlete’s health and condition, which looks to be affecting their performance…
sack that motherfucker yesterday…
it’s nothing personal, he’s just in the way right now…
Early Bird Writes
That’s not the full clip.
The clip you posted is a couple of seconds too late.
Your clip is showing Brunson’s hand motion while he’s in the paint with Hardaway. That may have been him counting 3 seconds for the ref. Before that as he and Hardaway were walking towards the paint, he seemed to have said something to OG. OG doesn’t turn his head and look at him. He sort of glances that way and stays on his man in the corner. There’s no way of knowing what if anything Brunson said to OG unless someone heard it.
You clip pick ups after that.
It absolutely looked like it.
The refs had a lot to do with the loss last night. That moving screen on KAT was the most ridiculous, but it’s just one of several plays that went their way in the last 2 minutes.
Strat, when you engage in the same behavior you scream about , it make you a hypocrite of the highest order. There is no defending it. So really, either shut the fuck up about the media or about OG. Or just own being a massive hypocrite.
Thibs is managing 5 players (assets) on whom Dolan invested $743 MILLION dollars over next five years in guaranteed contracts and Leon spend 4 years acquiring them.
His #1 priority is maximization of their health so that they can show up to work.
Playing KAT (a super rare $200m MVP level asset) with a sprained thumb on a back-to-back for 43 minute in January is criminal negligence not just ideologically driven incompetence.
If you slow down the clip, you can clearly see Brunson mouth the words “I took a pay cut and you’re getting max money, so you’ll do what I tell you to do!”
i’m just not getting that vibe at all from his behavior…no doubt thibs would put it on medical, put it on the athlete’s themselves…
not so sure thibs views himself in the equation, at all…
Unless someone reports on it, I’m not going to worry
Walker, didn’t he add at the end, “bruv, you didn’t even go to Nova” too?
“Unless someone reports on it, I’m not going to worry”
Seems like the smart way to go.
Are you in one of your bad moods or is this your best effort to be a pain the ass?
Since when is speculation off limits among fans?
That’s what we do here most of the time.
When you pay me to do journalist work and get me a job at The Athletic I’ll try to get an interview with OG before I speculate if he’s tired, unhappy or both. I also won’t cover up for or lie about any corrupt policitians and businessmen the way the media does daily.
Until then, I’m going to keep speculating like a lot of other fans.
There are several reasons to think OG may not be happy.
Hart’s multiple comments about ego and agendas were obviously referring to some player or players. You don’t just say that unless you perceive it as a problem. There’s no way he’s going to name names, but I can’t imagine he’s talking about himself or Towns. With OG’s history and his recent play showing less of his usual hustle and more bad shooting, how could a fan not speculate that he might not be happy? It’s either that or he’s exhausted. That’s the other thing I’ve been speculating about without that interview (or both).
The very first day we traded for Bridges I posted something wondering how OG was going to handle being 4th option given he was not happy with his role in Toronto. It’s been on my mind the entire season. I’m not sure whether he’s exhausted, not happy with his role or a little of both, but he sure as hell is not playing his best on either side and I don’t think it’s random. Shooting is noisy. Hustle is not.
You can keep doing it any time you want, as much as you want, for as long as you want. Just own that it makes you a hypocrite and an asshole and it’s all good!
Must be destroyed, [demonstrates] total lack of long term thinking, absolutely stinks, sack that motherfucker yesterday, [creates] self made problems, mismanage[s] an athlete’s health and condition, [demonstrates] criminal negligence not just ideologically driven incompetence….
Just from this morning. Oh well. Fans are always fans. Carry on, kids 😊
i’d guess that to be some of the issue…
he’s on pace to play almost 3,000 minutes…his previous best is almost 2,400…
let’s jut be honest, OG lumbers…he’s a big guy, perfect sized for a versatile small forward, as a four he lumbers…i can understand the desire to add some strength and size to compete around the basket (while still not rebounding much), compete against larger players trying to back him down around the basket…
thibs wants durable marathoners…josh and mikal can seemingly run all day…jalen and KAT are faking it well, but both are breaking down physically…
“low energy” OG is probably conserving as much of his energy as possible in order to avoid injury…maybe OG is simply adapting and being smart…OG is not built like a durable marathoner…
it seems the only current safe spots to pass the ball to OG is if his head is nearly beneath the rim, or he’s lurking behind the arc from either sideline…get him the ball then…
we need him more as a defender anyway…
How is one the perfect size for an SF but ‘lumbering’ as a PF?
Shouldn’t it be the other way around?
I don’t beleive you believe that because I know you are not moron.
If you want to say that using the term “word is” was inappropriate because it implied a news source to some, I can own up to that and did earlier in the thread. I can see how someone could think that. I should have said “consensus is”. Though I would have posted the quote if there was one.
What I meant by it was there has been speculation on who Hart was talking about on X for a couple of days now. Last night OG was trending on my timeline and he was the center of the speculation. That’s what I was reporting because that’s what I concluded myself.
The rest of what you are saying is nonsense about things that are obviously not comparable and you know that or you actually are a moron.
As Brunson was walking towards the paint with Hardaway, it looked like he may have said something while looking at OG. In slow motion you can kind of see OG half glance over and ignore whatever it was. Then when they get into the paint it looked like Brunson was counting 3 seconds for the ref.
febrile delirium is a solid horse name
“Are you in one of your bad moods or is this your best effort to be a pain the ass?”
Neither, just being reminded of how dickish your idiotic, broad-brush dismissiveness of the press is, and pointing out how that what’s good for the goose isn’t good for the gander.
“When you pay me to do journalist work and get me a job at The Athletic I’ll try to get an interview with OG before I speculate if he’s tired, unhappy or both.”
See, I think you should wait until someone from The Athletic gets an interview with OG before you speculate….although, you know, those guys are members of the corrupt media as well, so maybe you shouldn’t trust them either…
“There are several reasons to think OG may not be happy.”
There is actually zero reasons, other than those you are fabricating based on zero actual evidence.
“Hart’s multiple comments about ego and agendas were obviously referring to some player or players. You don’t just say that unless you perceive it as a problem. There’s no way he’s going to name names, but I can’t imagine he’s talking about himself or Towns.”
I don’t think that any inferences can be made at all about “some player or players,” and it can be argued that he’s actually talking about KAT or Brunson just as easily. Or just cryptic babbling playerspeak directed at no one in particular.
“With OG’s history…”
He doesn’t have a history…
“…and his recent play showing less of his usual hustle and more bad shooting”
Is he alone in this regard? Last I checked, Mikal and Brunson couldn’t hit the side of a barn…
“…how could a fan not speculate that he might not be happy?”
I’m a fan and not speculating that, seems pretty easy…”
“…It’s either that or he’s exhausted.”
Now that’s something there is enough evidence for to speculate about! He’s currently 3rd in the NBA in minutes played, averaging a career high in minutes. He also has played in all 41 games, and only played less than 30 minutes once.
“The very first day we traded for Bridges I posted something wondering how OG was going to handle being 4th option given he was not happy with his role in Toronto.”
Since you used the phrase “given that…”, it should be easy to cite the actual evidence that he was not happy with his role in Toronto, right? Looking forward to seeing it!
“I’m not sure whether he’s exhausted, not happy with his role or a little of both…”
…or anything other reasonable explanation, e.g. he’s just in a slump (see: Bridges, all season other than December, is he unhappy with his role or have a hidden agenda too? Don’t see you speculating about him…or Brunson, whose numbers are all down in January…”
“…but he sure as hell is not playing his best on either side and I don’t think it’s random. Shooting is noisy. Hustle is not.”
So are Brunson and Mikal not hustling either? Do they have hidden agendas?
okay, taking off fan cap…
thibs should finish the season, be let go after we finish the playoffs…
hopeful thinking is that there is a list of potential candidates already…that list includes a younger coach, one whom hopefully has played in the league themselves…
our group doesn’t need a coach squeezing every ounce of effort from them, they are a talented enough group, the roster has enough to fill in for the bench minutes needed…
we need someone whom can organize our offense and defense to maximize our current roster, call a decent out of bounds play, once or twice a game, and secure the team’s future, in the playoffs, and going forward…
and manage roster minutes…thibs is like throwing a chocolate addict in to a job working the counter at see’s candies…should not be there, can’t control themselves…
we can’t just cut thibs now, it would cause waaaaaay to much disruption during the season, his replacement would have to already be on the bench…
i’m sure (maybe) that the front office has spoken with him regarding the player minute data…
they go over all the data…
sure, maybe the coach can exhibit a championship or bust mentality – for each and every single basketball game during the regular season…the front office can’t be that short sighted…
if he don’t wanna be any kind of custodian of athletes, whom are much much more valuable than coaches, so be it…
roll the dice that he doesn’t get anyone hurt this season, while he plays these in their prime athletes more than ever out on the court, because: it’s necessary…each and every game…
hard to for a team to gel when 60% of their team’s starting lineup legs are turning to jelly…
“What I meant by it was there has been speculation on who Hart was talking about on X for a couple of days now.”
Oh, it was being talked about on X. Now I get it…
Thanks for assuming that I’m not a moron. I wish I could return the backhanded compliment, but your posting today is making that impossible.
no…
I don’t see him as lumbering.
I see two problems with him at the 4.
One I predicted and the other became apparent to me over time.
1. He wasn’t a plus rebounder as a SF. Even if he got an extra rebound here or there by being in better position more often at PF, he wasn’t going to come anywhere close to replacing Randle’s rebounding or being plus rebounder at PF.
2. Our perimeter defense with Hart, Bridges and OG hasn’t been as good as I and others anticipated, but Towns’ defense has been the problem most expected. That’s a problem. Having a bigger PF that can rebound and help Towns protect the rim makes more sense to me now and will also help against the teams with 2 bigs. If not that, you see what happens with Mitch/Towns.
If a report eventually comes out that OG is not thrilled with his role in NY don’t be shocked. I’m pretty sure the only reason it hasn’t come out is because there’s no upside to the team discussing it publicly. But if they continue playing mediocre basketball dirty laundry may leak out and you’ll get your official report.
The rest of you last distribe was all nonsense, especially because it was reported multiple times that OG was not happy with his role in Toronto.
If a report eventually comes out that OG is not thrilled with his role in NY don’t be shocked. I’m pretty sure the only reason it hasn’t come out is because there’s no upside to the team discussing it publicly so you can get the official report you desire.
i don’t think a single person on earth would be shocked. well maybe owen because he hasn’t been allowed to check the news since the rj trade. but you needn’t let this boring possibility eat your brain. the knicks were obviously not preswitching the pnr that the pistons repeatedly ran to either get jalen onto cade or flare thjr. we were intent on praying mikal could stick to cade or miracle-praying that rotation hell would work just great this next time. we’ve seen plenty of examples of what it looks like from jalen and the coaching staff when they suddenly decide to preswitch from the corner. that furtive glance across the dark ballroom you think you saw was surely not it.
the problem with caring so much about whether you are right about every little theory is that eventually you start dreaming of electric sheep and calling them evidence.
And just to be clear, of course he denied it. They always deny it unless they are trying to force a trade. He wasn’t trying to force a trade. He just wanted to make sure he got paid.
“How is one the perfect size for an SF but ‘lumbering’ as a PF?
Shouldn’t it be the other way around?”
I actually wondered the same exact thing, Pags.
“The rest of you last distribe was all nonsense, especially because it was reported multiple times that OG was not happy with his role in Toronto.”
Great, please provide a link to those reports and I’ll retract that part of my criticism. And if they are not actual reports based on evidence but just some speculation framed as news, then do what you like to do and blast the professional reporter…and I accept your apology.
jake fischer did claim that og was unhappy with his offensive role in toronto.
edit: here was an article where he denied it. can’t remember if there were other reports:
https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/og-anunoby-discusses-rumors-of-his-unhappiness-with-the-toronto-raptors
i mean…OG seems like a pretty aware dude…do you think he was sold a bill of goods in the contract negotiation that he would be the no 2 option (and Leon didn’t put a footnote next to it which said it was conditional on them not acquiring a couple of more guys who were better options) and now he is up in arms over mgmt/coach not holding up their end of the bargain? Probably not.
Shit…he might just be upset that they tried to give him more usage and now his limitations are being exposed…if I was the coach and he came to me about expanding his role….I would tee up the highlight reel of his efforts to go one on one and dribble to the hole which are getting to the point of the randle like whirling dervish stuff that we all knew and loved…if he looked at those and dismissed them as outliers or said something like “well, i don’t get to try it enough so i haven’t had a chance to improve”…then he is really delusional…but he doesn’t seem like that kind of guy..sure..he might want to shoot a few more times (don’t we all) and doesn’t see a few more plays being run for him or kat or jb not looking for him…probably just human nature (although for 35-40 million a year…I would do whatever the fuck Thibs told me to do)
ptmilo
I hear what you are saying. I hadn’t seen the play being discussed at the time I threw it into my initial comment. I relied on someone else’s intepretation last night. When I saw it today, I thought it was impossible to know what was said. But that’s the least of the reasons for my view on OG. Like I said, the day we traded for Mikal I was already worried about how OG would handle being 4th option because that’s a ton of money to be paying an unhappy guy. It was Hart’s comments and OG’s own play that got me stirred up lately.
Regardless of what was said, it doesn’t seem like putting keeping OG glued to Harris in the corner was smart.
We’ve seen so many teams use zone effectively to cover bad defensive guards (Miami does it best). Why can’t we be one of them?
“probably just human nature (although for 35-40 million a year…I would do whatever the fuck Thibs told me to do)”
This. So much this. But then again, none of us really would know how we would act if we were bringing home that much cash and felt entitled to it.
In an article written by Jake Fisher himself in 2022:
Just wondering where this rumor fits in to the category of “metaphysically evil wildy arrogant vermin thinking they are above us and should help their friends impose their will on us rather than giving us facts and allowing us to decide for ourselves.”
I wouldn’t be surprised if OG was disgruntled but I don’t think this play was evidence for it.
Alternative interpretation of the glance over:
The play was live. Brunson said something to OG. OG looks at Brunson to acknowledge it. OG turns his head back because it’s a live ball and that’s where Tobias Harris was standing.
The organization and team has a lot invested in OG and Mikal, and they’ve been disappointments. That standing alone tends to generate dissension, unhappiness and chemistry problems.
IMO he was going to deny it unless he wanted a trade.
What I recall is that it was discussed in other articles and perhaps even on a game broadcast, but that Jake Fischer report may have been the original source for everyone. That I don’t know. It’s just clear in my mind that it was discussed because his role in NY was always an issue in my mind based on that.
“I hadn’t seen the play being discussed at the time I threw it into my initial comment. I relied on someone else’s intepretation last night. When I saw it today, I thought it was impossible to know what was said.”
Again, you did exactly the thing that you criticize others for doing…
It doesn’t matter to me what the venue is, or who the audience, or what you are getting in return for doing it. If it’s wrong, it’s wrong.
So OG is looking for his Joy now?
Leave it to Z-Man to literally equate (1) gossip about participants in our daily bread and circuses; and (2) demanding at gunpoint that Americans take their kids out of schools and stand six feet or more away from each other because “science.”
And then double, triple, and quadruple down.
“So OG is looking for his Joy now?”
Nuh uh.
I don’t think our team has chemistry issues, at least from the eye test. I think they have some problems when they lose, just like every other team. But the fundamental reason for us to lose more than we should might be the heavy minutes, so we should start there and see how it goes.
Also please don’t panic if this season starts going sideways, this is a team built to try to contend for several seasons, at least this one and the next 3, i’d say. Now we have a glaring problem – no bench – and because of that this season might not go as we all wanted, but then we’ll make adjustments in the offseason to address the problems we have. And the best way to know what limitations this team has is to let them play the season and see how far they go.
Recent champions like Celtics, Nuggets and Bucks ended seasons prior to the championship in disappointment, but kept trying to improve the team to get to the goal everybody is trying to reach.
Like BBA said, just enjoy the games and don’t stress so much, we’re on a good path.
That makes perfect sense when any player is on a contract year but now he got paid, why would he care? – I can undwerstand Mikal having a superquick trigger pulling up on contested transition threes and JB freezing OG to pass to Mikal… he’s the only one of the starters without a legit contract.
I think part of the problem is that Harris is 4-6″ taller than Hart and Brunson. True of pretty much all PFs.
I thought Hart did okay against PFs last year, but I could be wrong.
FWIW, Harris is pretty washed but has the most 2PAs and highest % of unassisted 2PTers after Cade. He’s probably their 2nd option if Cade gets stuffed.
Dating back to the playoffs last season watching Tobias Harris trying to score on OG is the funniest thing ever. Or the most depressing thing ever if you look at it from Harris’ perspective.
have we heard anything on kat’s thumb?
“It is what it is” -KAT
“It’s as simple as that” -KAT
“It’s the OG Anunoby of his right hand” -Hart, blinking in morse code
I’ve wondered this exact same thing since Thibs’ first season here, and I guess he just doesn’t believe in zone? I can’t imagine why else we, a relatively mid team in terms of athleticism, wouldn’t at least play it as a change of pace… the only thing I can come up with is that Thibs seems like a follower of the Keep It Simple, Stupid method and really just believes that excellence comes from reps.
The infuriating thing is that we won’t try it even though it’s crippled our allegedly elite offense on multiple occasions. Instead we get clowned by shitty offenses because we let some guy hit 70% of his threes all day.
Fischer said similar things about OG’s role on a podcast, but I didn’t hear it. OG obviously wanted to get paid (and did in NY) and wasn’t going to get paid in a reduced role in Toronto. He did not however ask for a trade and of course would deny any issues he might have had unless he wanted a trade.
I see nothing wrong with Fischer’s article. He repreated what he was told by sources, repeated it on podcasts, but qualified that it may be rivals contributing to the story.
This is the way I see the issue and why I am so harsh on media.
I expect a certain about of corruption and lying in almost in area of life.
However, there are certain jobs that must be held to a much higher standard than others and some sins within those jobs that are so heinous I call them metaphysical evil. It generates extreme anger on my part because of the trust placed in them.
We know there are drug dealers, but if a cop is dealing drugs that’s a much worse offense.
We know there are arsonists, but if a fireman is an arsonist imo that’s a much worse offense.
We know there are child abusers out there, but if it’s a teacher or even worse a priest, rabbi etc.. is abusing children that’s much worse.
These are people we trust and are looking to for protection from the bad guys, but they using their position of trust to do that same evil. That’s enfuriating to me and I have no issue saying they are vermin.
On to a subset of journalists.
We know there are very corrupt politcians and we know there are very corrupt businessmen. We also know those two can and do sometimes work together to the detriment of us all. And it goes well beyond money into some sick depraved and sociopathic behavior and war.
One of the main roles of some news media and journalists is to protect the rest of us from all that corruption by exposing it to keep us safer, and keep our government more ethical and honest.
Instead, what we have now is partisanship and corruption in some media that is far beyond “leans a little left or right”. It’s far worse than anything I’ve experienced. Their job has become to protect their side no matter how corrupt they are, no matter what terrible things they’ve done and are doing, no matter how many spins and lies they have to tell about their opponents and so on. They will say or do anything to back their corrupt advertisers, owners, friends in government and in the intelligence community. They are wildly arrogant to the point they feel they must try to impose their will and anything and everything is justified.
IMO, these are very dangerous people and I consdier them vermin and evil. To me they are like the cop, fireman, and priest above. I need their help. I was willing to trust them, but they are scumbags.
Now of course I’m not stalking about sports people and many other decent people in the media business and I know sometimes honest mistakes are made. But there’s a subset on both sides that IS vermin and it’s good that the country is finally figuring that out.
What part of “supposedly” and that person “speculated” didn’t you understand? It’s pretty clear it’s fan speculation and I didn’t see the video yet.
Read my previous diatribe to this post and you’ll understand the monumental difference between me reporting on speculation on X (as Fischer did with OG and team people around the NBA) and the vermin I’m taking about.
Tangentially related article from Jared Dublin:
https://open.substack.com/pub/lastnightinbasketball/p/nba-defenses-are-different-too?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=dh5lg
It shows a chart of defensive aggressiveness vs how often they switch strategies on a night to night basis.
The Knicks are behind the TOR dot on the red chart. You can’t see the Knicks without going to the source chart.
I think in a 3 second clip where you slow down kat holding his thumb he says (and i’m no lip reader) “If only OG didn’t wave off a switch (even unknowingly) I wouldn’t have hurt my thumb when a Piston player trying to block me slammed it against the backboard/rim”
I’m finished for today. Have a good night. We can debate OG’s role and happiness another night.
Been out and about until now, but a few thoughts:
First, it’s always a danger putting words in Z-Man’s mouth, but I’m feeling a bit like living life on the edge, so here goes: Strat, first, there’s a fine line, or perhaps no line, between speculation and rumor mongering. The latter of which more often creates a narrative, which may be completely false, but tends to linger like long Covid. And is about as ruinous.
Second, get off X. Like most recreational drugs it makes you think you’re being really clever and smart, but everyone around you thinks you’re being a moron.
Finally, ptmilo, an idea that’s not accepted as fact or even actually tested is a hypothesis, not a theory. Please don’t go all CSI on me.
Sorry, but I had to add this. I don’t think there’s much question what was going on at that time. How he feels now is another issue.
https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/news/og-anunoby-rumor-role-raptors/u8x585k4rettgctf9pftfzqk
Cyber — we’re winning!!!!
(Edit: If this were a cross-country meet, that is…)
I mostly use those social media platforms to get news on basketball, horse racing, markets and to read or see a handful political interviews or reports.
I use X, Bluesky and Threads etc.. but I would never want to be on a single social media platform that’s keeps me in an informatiom bubble when I can get all sides of a story and easily control my timeline with mute, block, no reposts and blocking individual words. With those functions on X I get an equal balance of information from all over the political and information spectrum from around the globe and can get rid of what I don’t like.
To me X is still wildly superior for diversity and function.
I look at Bluesky for 5 minutes and everything of interest I come across I’ve already seen on X except an occasional post on healthcare by Mark Cuban that I want to read. But if I was just on Bluesky I’d miss endless stuff I am interested in reading.
Bluesky is great.
Twitter still has some posters clinging on, but I would not be upset to say goodbye to the White Supremicists, the climate deniers and the engagement baiters. Yep, I could do without Elon
Edwards XIV has a really good piece on the Knicks at the halfway point in The Athletic today. I think the point he makes to open it is useful to consider, what with all the sky is falling posting going on.
“For starters, the Knicks’ 26-15 record is the best start to a season in more than a decade.”
I mean, that’s celebratory. I know the expectations have shifted, which has shifted the narrative, but roll around in that pile of positive for a bit.
👏👏👏
well, considering December Knicks had the easiest schedule according to NBA.com and January we have the 11th most difficult… i guess we will see how we go moving forward.
https://www.nba.com/news/nba-storylines-strength-of-schedule-rankings-january
https://www.nba.com/news/nba-storylines-strength-of-schedule-rankings-for-december
NIck Nurse definitely doesn’t run his players into the ground. Interesting lineup tonight vs OKC.
This makes sense because we have Hukporri to replace Soms role and we need scoring off the bench which Sims doesn’t provide. Sims has a nice contract and is good at rebounding and defensive positioning, so there might be a market for him.
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