NY Post: Mitchell Robinson is showing off skills we’ve never seen before

From Howie Kussoy at the Post:

Mitchell Robinson has been the big man the Knicks envisioned, becoming one of the best shot-blockers in the NBA, while holding what would stand as the best single-season field goal percentage (74.2) in league history.

But the 7-footer isn’t satisfied living in the paint.

One week after video was posted showing Robinson drilling a pair of 3-pointers — one via step-back — the 22-year-old center has shown off his previously unseen ball-handling skills again, before hitting a fadeaway jumper just inside the 3-point line.

At the start of this season, Robinson — coming off an All-Rookie Second Team selection — said he planned on shooting more from the perimeter.

“Why work on something you’re not going to use? I’m looking forward to it,” Robinson said. “I’m shooting the thing now.”

Hey, I’m all for Mitch Robinson, three-point threat.

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107 thoughts to “NY Post: Mitchell Robinson is showing off skills we’ve never seen before”

  1. He looks like Embiid, but I want to see him try those dribble moves against Kawhi before I anoint him.

  2. I’m just so happy that we have Mitch. It really gives us something to feel happy about with this team.

  3. It’s no more promising than a three on three workout, but even if he can’t shoot threes in a real NBA game being able to hit shorter jump shots would still be useful.

  4. There’s a scene in White Men Can’t Jump where Woody Harrelson has to shoot a full-court hook shot to win a bet. He makes it, but it probably took 100 takes over several days to get the shot. Just sayin’….

  5. I’m not that delusional and self absorbed.

    you make that seem like a bad thing…i don’t get it…

    in other life stuff – any one else hoping for that 10 hour, 4 day workweek to gain wider business acceptance…even if nothing changes where i’m at – good luck getting me to show up in the office before noon anytime soon…

    still haven’t hooked up a cam yet for meetings…it’s not so much that i’m really high, therefore maybe a little more self-conscious than normal – i can still effectively get things across or ask questions…i don’t know, if done well with a good camera, clean backdrop and proper lighting – it can be impressive…over time i’ve learned to gracefully (as possible) cut people off while they speak…can’t do it to everyone obviously, some folks simply require your patience, there are some folks that i just like to hear them speak…but, it’s definitely easier to interact online…

  6. mitch’s development has been the most unique of all our draft picks over the last, since i can remember…

    who knows, maybe mitch will be the one thing we really get right…

  7. Hey, I would be into having a separate thread for politics- something like “Over here assholes” or something. Basketball in other threads

  8. wetbandit:
    Hey, I would be into having a separate thread for politics- something like “Over here assholes” or something. Basketball in other threads

    This is Brian’s third attempt to do that. But Owen keeps bringing up politics in the new thread.

    ;)

  9. ***This is Brian’s third attempt to do that. But friggin ‘ Owen keeps bringing up politics in the new thread.***

    Owen spelled backwards is Reub. (If you’re really bad at spelling backwards, that is)

  10. Pleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease let’s talk about basketball.

    Mitch’s handle in those videos seems WAY too wide to work against NBA defenders with NBA wingspans, and I’d much rather see him slow roast defenders in the post. That being said, we should absolutely be encouraging Mitch to shoot it more and hopefully we can get him to pass better.

  11. C’mon, that’s an eye test result. He was two for two. Trust the stats!

    Sorry, that was in jest. Actually, I agree with you. I don’t think he’s going to dribble around defenders for a while yet. But at least if he can get off a quick jumper and have some hope of hitting it from three point distance there’s a good chance he can shoot jumpers closer to the basket and get reasonable results.

  12. I’m just going to paste this as it’s basketball, and kind of amazing. From the Ringer’s assessment of the Southwest Division.

    “The NBA has been tracking lineup data for the last 13 years. In that timespan, 636 different lineups have played over 200 regular-season minutes together.

    Think about some of the talent in those 636 lineups. Golden State’s “Death Lineup” and the “Hamptons 5.” The “Heatles” with LeBron, Wade, and Bosh. Boston’s “Big Three” with KG, Allen, and Pierce. Lob City. This season’s Lakers. San Antonio’s lineups from pretty much always.

    Those are some historically great lineups, but none of them top this. Ladies and gentlemen, introducing the Zineup: Lonzo Ball, Jrue Holiday, Brandon Ingram, Zion Williamson, Derrick Favors.

    Together, these five have a stat line of:

    Offensive rating: 117.9
    Defensive rating: 91.6
    Net rating: Plus-26.3

    We are not discussing this enough. We should be going door to door.”

    Jowles, you might like their coverage of Clarke in there, too. Whenever I think of Clarke (and each time it makes me a little sad), I think of the love child of Shane Battier and Kenny ‘Sky’ Walker.

  13. Here’s a fascinating ringer article:

    https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/5/20/21264505/time-machine-all-stars-power-forwards

    Just focus on the Anthony Mason section. I once mentioned here I thought he would a dominant player today, but there was some very reasonable counterarguments about his physical style and the fact that he had no shooting range.

    I think of him as a suped up Draymond Green. His ballhandling was so smooth, too. He’d actually be able to use that more in the modern game.

  14. Mitch’s handle in those videos seems WAY too wide to work against NBA defenders with NBA wingspans, and I’d much rather see him slow roast defenders in the post. 

    so far he’s only taken the ball at the top of the key to pass it quickly, or he’s been receiving the ball around the rim…

    ditto on wanting to see him work from the post rather than spotting up for threes like brook lopez…

    yes, mitch with a sky-hook…

  15. Mitch would have a ton of value if he could be a brick wall when setting picks and be a plus passer for the position. He’s already the best two-way player on the roster, and I think expanding his offensive game takes him into another stratosphere. That expansion to me should be more Embiid and Jokic than James Harden is my opinion. I mean, Kristaps Porzingis had a handle and it works for him, but he already could shoot 3s.

  16. I’d be thrilled if Mitch could hit in-game 3s, but I doubt it. I’ll believe in his shot when he hits them consistently in actual NBA games.

    His handle is impressive for a big guy, but impressive for a big guy doesn’t count for much. Still looks really loose and he never actually gets past the guy and the 6-8 inch height difference doesn’t exist in the NBA.

    Donnie Walsh:
    There’s a scene in White Men Can’t Jump where Woody Harrelson has to shoot a full-court hook shot to win a bet. He makes it, but it probably took 100 takes over several days to get the shot. Just sayin’….

    I’m pretty sure that’s movie magic and the ball leaves the screen so they can drop another ball into the hoop from just above it. I really doubt they sat out there all day waiting for Woody to hit that shot.

  17. Raven: Those are some historically great lineups, but none of them top this. Ladies and gentlemen, introducing the Zineup: Lonzo Ball, Jrue Holiday, Brandon Ingram, Zion Williamson, Derrick Favors.

    Together, these five have a stat line of:

    Offensive rating: 117.9
    Defensive rating: 91.6
    Net rating: Plus-26.3

    We are not discussing this enough. We should be going door to door.”

    How significant is a 200 min sample size for a 5-man unit? I can never remember these things, but I would not be surprised if there’s a gargantuan standard deviation.

  18. I dunno…
    It’s really nice that he has practice 3pt range and practice handles. If we can get him confident enough to launch 3 or so jumpers out to Ewing range in maybe PnP, that would be great! Hopefully he’ll never need to unveil his off the dribble game. He’s way too long. A simple crossover to blow by a big with a shooter on his side will do. I don’t care who the coach is, this kid better start. Wouldn’t it be crazy to land Wiseman in the draft and have him be Mitch’s backup next season? Sheesh! I bet those practice battles would be EPIC

  19. Glad to have sat the last thread out. NahNah and Hubert duking it out made me pine for reruns of The Jerry Springer Show.

  20. Mitch is figuring out that the secret to getting P-A-A-A-I-I-I-I-D in today’s NBA is the step-back 3. As TNFH pointed out, without it, you’re minimum-salary dime-a-dozen shit.

  21. Mitch with a decent three point shot is a pretty damn good piece. Being a lethal threat rolling to the rim and having the ability to fade out for a three every so often seems pretty similar to what we wished Porzingis would be instead of Melo 2: Latvian Boogaloo.

    Although, the best thing is that he’s already really good so it’s pretty fine if this doesn’t pan out and he’s “just” an elite defensive center that can dunk the shit out of the ball.

  22. I really enjoyed Larry Johnson on the Knicks as a fan but looking back, would the Knicks have been better keeping Mason? I haven’t dug into the stats but seems Mase was much more productive after the trade.

  23. I would get so frustrated watching the Knicks run their offense, hand it off to Mitch at the top of the circle, watch the defense sag 5 feet off him, and he never once looks at the basket. He couldn’t get rid of the ball fast enough. I would yell at the TV “Shoot!” If he could make that 15-18 footer once in a while, and/or hoist it with confidence, so much opens up for the offense.

    Maybe just maybe if his defender views him as a threat and has to come out Mitch can run past him and dunk it. So interested to find out what his ceiling might be.

  24. CaptainB:
    I really enjoyed Larry Johnson on the Knicks as a fan but looking back, would the Knicks have been better keeping Mason? I haven’t dug into the stats but seems Mase was much more productive after the trade.

    It depends.

    He certainly blossomed after he left the Knicks. But that’s bc Charlotte turned him into the focal point of the offense.

    In order to get the Anthony Mason that played for Charlotte, you’d have had to minimize Patrick Ewing. So you’re robbing Peter to pay Paul.

    Fwiw, that’s precisely what Don Nelson tried to do, and it got him fired.

    The deeper question you are asking is really “should the Knicks have moved away from Patrick Ewing sooner?” LJ’s shooting was a better complement to a Ewing-centric team than Mason would have been.

  25. I really enjoyed Larry Johnson on the Knicks as a fan but looking back, would the Knicks have been better keeping Mason? I haven’t dug into the stats but seems Mase was much more productive after the trade.

    At the time, I remembered being irked, because Johnon was clearly the better fit in 1996-97, when they had a ton of defense and little offense, but then 1997-98 and 1998-99 would have been better off with Mason instead, due to Ewing being gone in 1997-98 and diminished in 1998-99. It was just some awful timing.

  26. I mean those 90s teams in general its like if you could take the best of the late 90s and combine it with the best of the early 90s, they would have been unstoppable. I love Starks for his heart but pretty sure if we’d had Alan Houston in the early 90s we probably win a championship. Or if he had early 90s pat on the 99 team.

  27. “Owen. OAN. Coincidence?”

    That got a chuckle.

    Anthony Mason was definitely one of my favorite players growing up. He was the first player I can remember where I was ahead of the crowd. I could tell from the second he stepped on the court that he was going to be a big success. Absolutely loved the way he played the game. He’d be a success these days too I think.

  28. So Spencer Dinwiddie says we’re restarting the season July 15… other sources that Macri is reporting are saying August 1. The minimum amount of games needed to be reached is 70. So the Knicks have at least 4 games left.
    We’re sitting at 6th in the Tankathon standings, only 1.5 games away from #2, Cleveland/Minny, with Chicago 1.5 games behind.

    Who are the next 4 teams scheduled to be played? Miami (loss), Charlotte (?, #6 in Tankathon), Boston (loss), and Golden State (#1 on Tankathon, now with Curry, but why give up #1?)

    If they play more than 4 more games, they have a TON more losses coming: LAC (loss), Toronto (loss), New Orleans (loss), Chicago (right behind us in Tankathon), Memphis, Minny, Miami, OKC, Toronto, Detroit, Minny.

    If they play any more games, I’d argue they stand to bolt up the Tankathon standings considerably.

  29. I believe they are considering it a playoff warm up right?

    Currently listening to an 80’s playlist. Considering spending this weekend pretending I am in another decade.

  30. Oh, it’s totally a playoff warm-up. And it makes sense, but it’s still hilarious to get some of these shitty teams out of moth balls and making them play five more games just to tune the good teams up!

  31. I understand they have some financial incentives to get the regular season past a certain number of games but it’s hard for me to imagine that not turning into a bit of a farce. Are the eliminated teams really going to ask their veteran players to come back after four months off and go through training camp (and maybe some kind of preseason?) so that they can play in four meaningless regular season games that the team would rather lose? Add to that the empty arenas and I think those games have the potential to be extremely lackadaisical and really a bad look for the league. I’d love to see the NBA come up with some way to get every team meaningfully involved (elimination tournament for the last playoff spot or the like) but barring that they should just go right to the playoffs I think.

  32. Yeah, TV contracts are for 70 games. Lots of these bottom 10 teams are small market, so I assume they’re willing. I was just noting it is definitely in the Knicks’ favor to play more games. Agree Curry ain’t playing, whats the point, but they did say he was planning on playing a few months back- some players don’t want to sit out.

    I see TV ratings being HUGE, and the NBA really into it. I see players getting into it as well. Eh, who knows. I could see it as a good look in the middle of stay-at-home oblivion.

  33. Are the eliminated teams really going to ask their veteran players to come back after four months off and go through training camp (and maybe some kind of preseason?) so that they can play in four meaningless regular season games that the team would rather lose?

    I bet the players are excited to be doing literally anything other than sitting at home, just like everybody else, and the vets still want to get paid. Playing to 70 games gets everyone paid.

  34. I don’t think players on teams that are well out of the playoffs should find it ridiculous to train to play five more games. They would have played something like 17 more games if the season hadn’t stopped and instead they will do maybe three weeks of training camp like stuff followed by a week and a half or so of games, for four and a half weeks total of playing. That’s about what the 17 games would have taken. In return, their paychecks will be considerably higher than if those five games didn’t exist. That’s a very fair trade off.

  35. Yeah, the way I see it, there’s incentive for ALL teams, players, coaches, TV networks, etc., for them to play. These players are healthy and young, they should be back to work by July, even medically speaking. If there’s a diabetic player, etc., that guy shouldn’t play.

    Same thing as a new amnesty clause. Should be a win for everyone too.

  36. Yeah, the way I see it, there’s incentive for ALL teams, players, coaches, TV networks, etc., for them to play. These players are healthy and young, they should be back to work by July, even medically speaking. If there’s a diabetic player, etc., that guy shouldn’t play.

    And what about their families? I think Karl Anthony Towns would like a word, doc.

  37. Mitch wouldn’t be able to do any of that in an actual NBA game except the shot, but it’s probably good he’s working on it, because if he can learn to dribble under pressure even a little it would let him get to the rim even more. Also it would be awesome if he could make some 3’s.

  38. You know who was maybe my favorite Knick of the whole damn 90’s? It’s a guy who makes little sense bc his stint was so short, but it was….. Xavier McDaniel.

    I don’t really know what the cap ramifications were back in 1992, but losing him to Boston was a pivotal moment (one that would make a nice subject for one of Brian’s alternate history columns).

    McDaniel was a rugged beast who fit in perfectly with Oakley and Mason. Charles Smith was… not. If we re-sign McDaniel, we don’t make the Mark Jackson trade with the Clippers. For the record, that trade was Jackson and our first round pick in 1993 for Charles Smith and Doc Rivers.

    The 93 team was our best by far. Would it have gotten over the hump if it had Jackson and McDaniel vs Rivers and Smith?

  39. The only other player to log more than 20,000 points, 10,000 rebounds, 5,000 assists, 1,500 steals, and 1,500 blocks was Julius Erving,

    I had no idea Dr. J was such a good shot blocker

  40. LOVED the X Man when he was on the Knicks. He was one tough ass dude and a pretty good basketball player as well. There’s actually a great scene in the Last Dance doc where he’s getting in the face of Pippen and any Bulls player he can find.

    Speaking of that doc, I was thinking that for us long suffering Knicks fans, the 90’s were our golden years, being in the playoffs every year, going to 2 Finals. But we didn’t win shit!

    Can you imagine being a Bulls fan during that time? “Ho hum, another title, how many is that, 5..6? I kind of lost track” Must have been glorious.

  41. 1. Doc Rivers in 1993 was probably the best point guard the Knicks have had in the past 40 years. He was better than Jackson.

    2. McDaniel was really bad in New York for the most part. He was very passive all season long, not really having a role in the offense next to Ewing. Smith, on the other hand, was very good in 1993. We tend to remember them differently because of their respective series’ vs the Bulls. But that was NOT the X-Man the Knicks knew and didn’t love.

    3. Larry Johnson was also quite bad once he got to New York. Again, he didn’t have a well defined role next to Ewing as a small forward. That was pretty much the going theme with Ewing.

    4. Don Nelson realized that, and, as mentioned above, tried to “modernize” the offense. He even wanted to trade Ewing. “I said, ‘You need to trade Patrick Ewing and you need to trade him right away. There’s a guy by the name of Shaquille O’Neal who’s available, we can jump in there and beat the Lakers out and we should do it.’ It got back to Ewing and I was done. I was toast. I didn’t think he had very much left in the tank. He was one-dimensional, he was interested in rebounds and points. I thought that we could do better.”

    5. Nelson says he told this to James Dolan, who listened, but then fired him right afterwards. I didn’t realize Dolan was in control in 1996. I thought he took the reins after 1999.

    https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/ex-knicks-coach-don-nelson-confirms-he-tried-to-trade-patrick-ewing-for-shaq/308474110

  42. Man, an alternate history where 90’s Shaq is a Knick? ‘

    That would have been a lot of fun. I can’t imagine anyone doing that trade but I loved me some broken backboards back then.

  43. I don’t really know what the cap ramifications were back in 1992, but losing him to Boston was a pivotal moment (one that would make a nice subject for one of Brian’s alternate history columns).

    Ha! I just re-read my column about the Knicks trying to sign Harvey Grant and I see I mentioned the X-Man situation in that column (they were tied together in that disaster) and noted that it would be a good future column on its own. ;)

    So I guess I concur with you!

  44. The Honorable Cock Jowles: And what about their families? I think Karl Anthony Towns would like a word, doc.

    Well, anyone with a high-risk member in their household should sit out. But that’s gonna be the case for the next year until a vaccine comes out- so the plan isn’t to shut down for a year… Maybe Towns wants to play. It should be an opt in/out type of thing.

  45. I just watched the 30 for 30 on Shaq and Penny (Magic Time). I forgot how athletic and fast Shaq was when he first came into the league. By the time he started winning championships with The Lakers he had gotten even bigger and was mainly a post player…but dude could run the floor when he first got into the league. He was so huge but also ridiculously lean. Gotta wonder if Nick Anderson just made ONE of those free throws in game one of those finals if everything would have turned out different for them. Penny was a badass before he got hurt.

  46. wetbandit: Well, anyone with a high-risk member in their household should sit out. But that’s gonna be the case for the next year until a vaccine comes out- so the plan isn’t to shut down for a year… Maybe Towns wants to play. It should be an opt in/out type of thing.

    My understanding was that any continuation would involve relocating to either Orlando or Vegas and hosting every game there. Players would likely be separated from their families temporarily. The NBA can also get testing for every player extremely frequently.

  47. From Begley’s article about Rose’s next moves:

    The Knicks also reached an advanced state of negotiations with Milwaukee’s Mike Budenholzer before hiring David Fizdale.

    Discussions between the Knicks and Budenholzer in the 2018 offseason advanced to a point where some people who would have come with Budenholzer to New York were talking about places to live in the city because they felt Budenholzer was close to taking the job, per SNY sources.

    Prior to Budenholzer’s interview with the Knicks, the New York Post reported that New York was Budenholzer’s top choice entering the offseason.

    One official from an opposing team involved in searches at the time confirmed that coaching the Knicks intrigued Budenholzer. “Bud was definitely interested,” the team official said recently.

    HomerSimpsonTearsOutHairDotGif

  48. ***Man, an alternate history where 90’s Shaq is a Knick? That would have been a lot of fun. I can’t imagine anyone doing that trade but I loved me some broken backboards back then.***

    I think Nelson’s plan was to trade Ewing and then sign Shaq in the off-season to take his place.

  49. God Bless Ewing but if that had worked, could you imagine? Knicks probably would have gotten some good players and picks for Ewing and landing young Shaq. Sigh.

  50. Donnie Walsh: 1. Doc Rivers in 1993 was probably the best point guard the Knicks have had in the past 40 years. He was better than Jackson.

    2. McDaniel was really bad in New York for the most part. He was very passive all season long, not really having a role in the offense next to Ewing. Smith, on the other hand, was very good in 1993. We tend to remember them differently because of their respective series’ vs the Bulls. But that was NOT the X-Man the Knicks knew and didn’t love.

    These are a pair of great points, Donnie.

    To be clear, when I posted the question, I assumed Jackson as the inferior choice to Doc. I may disagree with your assessment (I think Harper was the best PG), but Rivers was definitely an upgrade over Jackson. Jackson was largely unplayable in the 92 series, IIRC, and was ousted by Cole Anthony’s Dad.

    And yes, X was subpar until the bulls series. But he was outstanding against them. He gave Pippen fits. And beating the bulls was really all the mattered.

  51. And I’m pretty sure Shaq always wanted to be a Laker so it wouldn’t have mattered what we did.

  52. HomerSimpsonTearsOutHairDotGif

    I can’t begrudge the Knicks too much there, as I believe the big change was that the Hawks let him out of the final year of his contract. Before they did so, any team hiring him would have had to work out a deal with the Hawks and the Bucks weren’t interested in doing that, but once he was a free agent, things changed. I believe that he did come close with the Knicks, but the Hawks move changed the playing field and once that was done, the Knicks likely would have had to sweeten the deal to get him over the Bucks and they weren’t willing to give him any say over personnel, so if both teams are even in terms of say over personnel, why would you ever pick the Knicks over the Bucks if you’re Budz?

    In other words, I can’t knock the Knicks too much there. I mean, it was still a dumb move, as I’d sooner give Budz some personnel say than lose him, but I think a lot of GMs would have balked at that situation (picking Budz with say over personnel over Fizdale with no say over personnel).

  53. ***To be clear, when I posted the question, I assumed Jackson as the inferior choice to Doc. I may disagree with your assessment (I think Harper was the best PG)***

    It’s a sad, sad list, but the post-Clyde point guards of the New York Knicks objectively looks something like this:

    1. 15 months of old Doc Rivers
    2. Stephon Marbury
    3. Mark Jackson
    4. Charlie Ward
    5. 34 year old Mo Cheeks
    6. 33 year old Derek Harper
    7. Cole Anthony’s dad
    8. jettisoned 22 year old Rod Strickland
    9. Howard Eisley
    10. Ray Felton
    11. Chris Childs
    14. Rory Sparrow
    15. Pablo Prigioni
    16. Chris Duhon
    17. Brandon Jennings
    18. Jarret Jack

    (This list based on their actual production as Knicks)

    (This list is also so bad, it’s depressing. And it’s why I said, in all seriousness, that Fred VanVleet would probably be the best PG the Knicks have had since Frazier)

  54. That ‘92 Knicks team was the first time I really religiously followed them, I had just transferred to Syracuse and we had MSG as part of our cable package so I could watch all the games. X-Man was pretty soft most of that season but he really played like a 90’s Knick in that Bulls series. I also remember him talking some trash and saying the Knicks would “knock some respect” into the Bulls or something similar. Good shit.

    I have zero memory of Kiki Vandeweghe playing on that team, but B-R says he played in 67 games.

  55. Donnie Walsh:
    ***To be clear, when I posted the question, I assumed Jackson as the inferior choice to Doc. I may disagree with your assessment (I think Harper was the best PG)***

    It’s a sad, sad list, but the post-Clyde point guards of the New York Knicks objectively looks something like this:

    1. 15 months of old Doc Rivers
    2. Stephon Marbury
    3. Mark Jackson
    4. Charlie Ward
    5. 34 year old Mo Cheeks
    6. 33 year old Derek Harper
    7. Cole Anthony’s dad
    8. jettisoned 22 year old Rod Strickland
    9. Howard Eisley
    10. Ray Felton
    11. Chris Childs
    14. Rory Sparrow
    15. Pablo Prigioni
    16. Chris Duhon
    17. Brandon Jennings
    18. Jarret Jack

    (This list based on their actual production as Knicks)

    (This list is also so bad, it’s depressing. And it’s why I said, in all seriousness, that Fred VanVleet would probably be the best PG the Knicks have had since Frazier)

    No love for Jeremy Lin?

  56. one year of 91 year old jason kidd would be top 3…felton could move up a few slots…

    both frank and elf are probably top 10…

  57. I once played against Kiki at the 14th St Y. I’m not even sure I believe that anymore.

  58. geo:
    one year of 91 year old jason kidd would be top 3…felton could move up a few slots…

    both frank and elf are probably top 10…

    Kidd was playing more SG for the Knicks than PG. He did the same for the Mavs.

    Billups stint and those two weeks of Alexey Shved were also quite good.

  59. I don’t think I’ve ever gone back and looked at advanced stats on those teams, so it’s admittedly all eye test and biased towards playoff performance for me.

    Derek Harper ranks high for me bc I believe he would have been the MVP of the 1994 finals if Hakeem didn’t block the Starks shot that was definitely going in. That is my unscientific method :)

    Also I loved it when he would just pick someone’s pocket bringing the ball up the court and waltz in for a layup. I think he did it to Kenny Smith twice in one game in that series.

    That finals always kills me. We were better than them at every position except center, and Hakeem outplayed Patrick by a big enough margin to negate all our advantages.

  60. My biased recollection of the ’94 finals:

    Game 1: we didn’t show up, gave a game away

    Game 2: immense defense from Anthony Mason on Hakeem won the game for us in the 4Q.

    Game 3: a complete letdown game that cost us the series. Starks and Ewing were incomprehensibly bad. We still almost pulled it off until Sam Cassell hit that shot.

    Game 4: I don’t remember this game.

    Game 5: the OJ game. Also Patrick’s best game of the series, and the only one of 7 where he played Hakeem even.

    Game 6: tears and heartbreak. We should have won.

    Game 7: we were dead men walking.

  61. -derek harper was absolutely the best post clyde pg… i think it’s a split between charlie ward and mark jackson for 2nd…. flawed but very useful pg’s…

    -mitch should not be trying to jack 3s…. he literally has his whole career to develop it…. i’d much rather he become a force inside on both ends of the court before he even he thinks about shooting more 3s….

    -tough year for the nba… not even mentioning covid… but losing kobe… stern and now sloan… absolute legends of the game….

  62. Hubert: I don’t think I’ve ever gone back and looked at advanced stats on those teams

    Until just now.

    Patrick in 7 games had an eFG% of .366 and a TS% of .390.

    Man, I loved the guy, but that was his shot. He had the better team. If he could have just held his own, we win that series, maybe in 5 games. But Hakeem wiped the floor with him bad enough to make up for all our advantages.

  63. Game 6: tears and heartbreak. We should have won.

    i still think about that second half and wonder why pat didn’t just say – starks handle the ball, harper you shoot the ball…honestly – at the moment it seemed the most obvious thing in the world…i yelled and screamed a lot that day…that was not a good day…not at all…that one in ’99, i didn’t think we had a chance…we should have beat the rockets though that year – 100% on riley…

    why is it djphan is the only other person here to understand basic online human communication…thought (all lowercase of course, cuz, no need to make a fuss)…dot dot dot…thought…dot dot dot…and, maybe mixing in a few other symbols and grammar things to keep shit organized…

    i love you djphan…

    yes, skyhook mitch – all game, every game…gotta get rid of randle though…

  64. i think mitch could be a 20 points, 10 rebounds, 2 blocks a game kind of guy…with a ts % in the high 60’s…

    it sure feels like we’ve already wasted two years of mitch, but, maybe slow to grow was the best way to go…we probably have curtailed his market value…

    that next contract though – what is he on now, agent number three, number four?

  65. i really wish we would use him more than a rim runner… the guy clearly has some skills and i’m pretty sure he could integrate some sort of rudimentary post game…. he’s quick enough to have a half decent faceup game also…

    him shooting 3s is a colossal waste of time… it’s capping his upside as just another stretch rim running 5…. a good rim runner with a mediocre 3 pt shot… that gets you 12 pts 10 rebounds and 2 blocks a game and costs 10-15 mil per like every other center in the league can…. he could be way more than that if we just tried….

  66. if you already have a dominant paint player, like giannis, then a 3p guy like brook is the perfect match…

    unfortunately our “post” guy doesn’t have great hands, and he can’t shoot from outside…i’d rather have mitch down low learning the spot and allow elf, RJ, knox, and maybe even our very own home town hero (came in at 18, going on 4 years, he’s new yorker now, and, he tries hard and play defense) – frank crash to the rim…

    we’re still 2 or 3 impact players away from really competing, let’s cut bait on julius and let mister mitch work down low…if he has to shoot the three – hopefully he’s better than randall – which can’t be that hard…

  67. Hubert: Until just now.

    Patrick in 7 games had an eFG% of .366 and a TS% of .390.

    Man, I loved the guy, but that was his shot. He had the better team. If he could have just held his own, we win that series, maybe in 5 games. But Hakeem wiped the floor with him bad enough to make up for all our advantages.

    Ewing did average 12.4 rebs and 4.3 blks per game in the Finals but yeah he shot horrible. He also averaged 44 mins per game! Considering the long grind of the regular season and the postseason Ewing’s legs was shot by the time they reached the Finals yet he still grinded away.

    I think what hurt that team in the Finals was having to needlessly go 7 games vs the Bulls and Pacers. If Kukoc doesn’t hit that shot the Knicks win Game 3 and either sweep them or win in 5. They were up 2-0 on Indiana with 2 relatively easy wins yet they completely no showed in Game 3 and lost a tough Game 4. Then of course Reggie went off in the 4th quarter of Game 5 and the Knicks had to grind out Games 6 and 7 while the Rockets won their Conference Finals in 5 games and had a week off before the NBA Finals, Knicks only had 2 days off.

    With the style those Knicks played and the physical toll it took on them you could see it in their legs as the playoffs wore on. Yet if Cassell doesn’t hit that 3pter in Game 3 the Knicks probably win the Finals in 5 games.

  68. ***Game 4: I don’t remember this game.***

    I was at that game. It was, like, the highlight of my life at the time (I was 18). Starks hit a few clutch shots. Mase was very animated. Best Garden crowd I’ve ever been part of.

    As for Harper, I think you guys are a bit more rosy on him than you would be if, say, Ewing hadn’t put back Starks’ missed layup at the end of game 7 vs the Pacers. Seeing somebody play in a finals wearing your team’s jersey changes one’s perception. But the fact was, Harper was a stopgap when Rivers blew out his knee. He had a very good career in Dallas, but by NY he was old, and wasn’t a good shooter, and didn’t have a great turnover::assist ratio. He was really only great at one thing: hand checking. Which wasn’t for nothing on the ‘94 Knicks. But there is no way he was a better player in 1994 than Kenny Smith was.

  69. Donnie Walsh:
    ***Game 4: I don’t remember this game.***

    I was at that game. It was, like, the highlight of my life at the time (I was 18). Starks hit a few clutch shots. Mase was very animated. Best Garden crowd I’ve ever been part of.

    As for Harper, I think you guys are a bit more rosy on him than you would be if, say, Ewing hadn’t put back Starks’ missed layup at the end of game 7 vs the Pacers. Seeing somebody play in a finals wearing your team’s jersey changes one’s perception. But the fact was, Harper was a stopgap when Rivers blew out his knee. He had a very good career in Dallas, but by NY he was old, and wasn’t a good shooter, and didn’t have a great turnover::assist ratio. He was really only great at one thing: hand checking. Which wasn’t for nothing on the ‘94 Knicks. But there is no way he was a better player in 1994 than Kenny Smith was.

    Derek Harper as a Knick shot a higher 3pt % and had a better EFG% and TS% than as a Maverick. He also averaged 5 ast to 2 to’s. His usage was lower and he only averaged 12 pts per game but he really stepped it up in the playoffs.

    In the NBA Finals Harper shot 43% from 3pt (17 for 39) and 47% overall with 16pts, 6 asts and 2.4 stls per game. Kenny Smith averaged 5.6 pts and 3 asts that series. In the 95 playoffs Harper shot 57%(!!) from 3pt range and 51% overall while averaging 14 pts and 5.6 ast per game. Yeah there’s a reason Harper is remembered fondly as a Knick.

  70. If Mitch don’t enrich his game i see him entering the “Advanced Stats Hall of Fame” one day next to Cole Aldrich, Brandon Clarke and the ultimate idol Tyson Chandler.
    Instead of entering the …banal HOF…

  71. ***Derek Harper as a Knick shot a higher 3pt % and had a better EFG% and TS% than as a Maverick. He also averaged 5 ast to 2 to’s. His usage was lower and he only averaged 12 pts per game but he really stepped it up in the playoffs.

    In the NBA Finals Harper shot 43% from 3pt (17 for 39) and 47% overall with 16pts, 6 asts and 2.4 stls per game. Kenny Smith averaged 5.6 pts and 3 asts that series. In the 95 playoffs Harper shot 57%(!!) from 3pt range and 51% overall while averaging 14 pts and 5.6 ast per game. Yeah there’s a reason Harper is remembered fondly as a Knick.***

    Yeah, Harper benefits from the Xavier McDaniel/Larry Johnson effect of mediocre players playing spirited minutes in big playoff games as Knicks. But, in reality, all of them were relatively weak links at their respective positions.

    Harper was a pretty bad shooter in 1994. 51% TS%. He didn’t shoot better than in Dallas, where he shot a career high .393 from three in 1993 compared to his .368 in NY, where he played with a closer 3 point line. (League average TS% jumped from .528 to .543 between 1994 and 1995).

    I enjoyed the big games these guys played in NY, but they weren’t great. If they hadn’t played on the few good Knick teams of our collective lifetimes, they’d be afterthoughts like Glenn Rice, Malik Rose, and Jamal Crawford.

  72. My feeling from the Rockets Knicks finals after so many years is that Horry, Maxwell and Cassel hit the crucial shots whenever needed and we were unable to defeat Hakeem’s dharma…

  73. So there are reports that Ewing has tested positive for COVID19…
    Godspeed big fella

  74. yea looks like he is in the hospital…. let’s hope he pulls through….

    re harper – harper didn’t shoot well from 2 and he was only a servicable offensive player but he was pretty consistent from 3 which is exactly what that team needed which even rivers couldn’t provide… he was the missing link to that particular team that added decent offensive production with superb defense 1 through 5….

    ts is a useful metric but in those days nobody on that knick team shot particularly well and we were still one of the best in the league…. harper shot poorly but so did ewing, starks and everyone else… it was a different time…. and it was a defensive league with efficient points pretty hard to come by all around….

  75. Harper and Rivers were one-two clicks lower than the difference maker PG the Knicks really needed back then…. unfortunately

  76. ***My feeling from the Rockets Knicks finals after so many years is that Horry, Maxwell and Cassel hit the crucial shots whenever needed and we were unable to defeat Hakeem’s dharma…***

    My feeling in 1994 was that as Knick fans we had paid our dues, losing to the Bulls all those years, and that with Jordan out of the way, the only just outcome would be a Knicks championship. I was 18, of course, and didn’t understand hubris. The Rockets, meanwhile, hadn’t been doing much out west, despite not having Jordan to deal with. So when we lost, it felt much worse than losing in the conference finals to the Bulls the previous year. It felt wrong.

  77. I came here after reading the report about Patrick Ewing being in the hospital with COVID-19. My heart sunk. I hope he’ll be alright.

  78. That’s a huge misconception that those Knicks teams couldn’t shoot. Under Riley the Knicks were around middle of the league in offensive rating and their biggest problem was turnovers and except for Ewing getting to the FT line. They were actually in the Top 10 in eFG% a couple of times and in Riley’s last 2 seasons the Knicks were Top 10 in 3pt% and attempts/makes, they enthusiastically embraced the shorter 3pt line for good reason too. Ewing shot 50% for his career and was well above that number until the last few years of his career so don’t know how you can lump him in with the “poor” shooters.

    Sure I wish they had Allan Houston back then but Riley’s teams weren’t just a bunch of thugs who could defend and rebound, they had some actual basketball skills too.

  79. i’m trying to think who’s my second favorite knick player ever, maybe houston? no question patrick is my favorite…

  80. Memory Feelings part III
    Despite many years have passed i remember feeling sick (too) for losing Xavier McDaniel back in the badass days.

    Same with losing Riley.

    I’m not much into winners. I’m more into fighters.

  81. Patrick definitely #1. My favorite BBALL player of all time.
    Hard to rank the other knicks.
    If I had a Top 7, its probably
    Ewing
    Mason
    Starks
    Oakley
    Sprewell
    Larry Johnson
    Harper
    Honorable Mention to Kurt Thomas.

  82. While a great player in his day, King would really do well nowadays. Dude rocked a .619 TS% shooting long twos in 1983-84! Imagine if he shot threes.

  83. That’s awesome. I remember him being hard to stop, but I didn’t know that number.

  84. Yeah, his TS% numbers for a guy who shot that many long twos were astonishing. Don’t get me wrong, he did plenty of drives and took pull-up jumpers, too, but he still shot a lot of long twos and made them at a ridiculous rate in his prime.

  85. It’s cool and all to re-litigate the ’90’s teams through the lens of advanced stats, but I’ll stick to my impressions from living through it. For example, I agree that X-Man was disappointing during the regular season, but he came alive first vs. the Pistons in a grueling 3-2 series (I was at game 5 with my wife). DET was aging but still very formidable and X really stood out as a huge positive for the Knicks. Derek Harper might have been the most solid all-around position player Ewing ever played with in his prime, he was a very hard-nosed defender whose value is not fully captured by advanced stats.

    The main reason we never won was because of management (including Pat Riley to a degree. He’s the one who had the hots for Charles Smith.) Sure, Ewing got outplayed by Hakeem, but Hakeem was clearly the better player, so even if the supporting cast was equal, it wasn’t really Ewing’s fault. It wasn’t like Tyson Chandler getting abused by Roy Hibbert.

  86. Ask the prime Larry-Parish-McHale Celts how good Bernard King was. In today’s game, even if he couldn’t shoot the 3, he’d be like DeMar DeRozan on steroids.

  87. Sure, but he would shoot the three. He actually talked about it recently, noting that he came into the league without an outside jumper and he added one of the best ones in the game, so it seems hard to believe he wouldn’t have added the three, as well.

  88. Oh, I think for sure he would have expanded his game out to the 3-pt line. My point is that even without that, he’d have been a force in today’s NBA.

    More generally, just about all of the truly great basketball players that dominated in any era after the 1950’s would have found a way to adapt to whatever the NBA threw at them.

  89. Ewing’s actually another guy who totally would have been taking threes in the modern NBA.

  90. Ewing and Embiid are very similar, although I think Ewing was better in pretty much every regard except maybe passing. So, yeah.

    Man, watching so many vintage games during this dead period reminds me of how freakin’ great basketball was in the early-80’s-early-90’s. Today they showed the Bird-‘Nique duel, and damn, that Atlanta team was dynamite!

  91. Yeah, look at how good a totally forgotten team like the Dougherty/Price Cavaliers was!

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