Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Wednesday, January 29, 2020

NBA.com: All-Decade Team: Best NBA players of the 2010s

NBA.com decided to put together an “All-Decade Team” for the 2010s (starting with 2009-10 and ending with the recently completed 2018-19 season. I’d have probably done it 2010-11 through 2019-20, but whatever, you get the picture) and oddly enough, the Knicks actually have a player on the second team All-Decade team!

The voters had to pick two backcourt players and three frontcourt players for each team (a first team, a second team and a third team). Here are the results…

The first team was Stephen Curry, James Harden, LeBron James, Kevin Durant and Kawhi Leonard.

The second team was Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, Anthony Davis, Blake Griffin and former Knick star, Carmelo Anthony!

The third team was Dwyane Wade, Kobe Bryant, Paul George, LaMarcus Aldridge and Giannis Antetokounmpo

Man, that probably says something about the frontcourt depth of the 2010s that Melo was second team and LaMarcus Aldridge made any sort of “best of” list, huh?

How do you think the NBA.com voters did?

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149 comments on “NBA.com: All-Decade Team: Best NBA players of the 2010s

  1. chriskZIPCODE

    the only MVP to not make the list…..D Rose!!!

    Carmello doesn’t belong. In that span, he was 2nd team all NBA once and third team once. Dwight Howard, Draymond, and DeAndre are better choices. Despite falling off the map, Dwight Howard was 1st team twice, 2nd once and 3rd once. One could even argue Dirk. That one would be me, and I just did so.

  2. alsep73

    Hooray, a non-politics thread! (That I assume will quickly turn back into a politics thread.)

    Yeah, Melo had one genuinely great season in the decade for the 54-win team, but that’s a reputation vote at least as much as it is a mark of frontcourt depth over that span.

  3. chriskZIPCODE

    wow. since I started watching this team in like 1982, our only 1st or 2nd team all defensive players were: Ewing (3 times), Chander (2 times), Oakley (2 times), Starks (1 times).

    that’s 38 years, 380 guys awarded. that should be 13-15 times. we got 8. is that a sign of a problem?

    From ’89-90 to ’09-10, we had 1 guy on a rookie team; Channing Frye. How is that even possible?

    Coaches of the year over that time? Riley (once), Rambis (twice)

  4. Owen

    I can’t work Basketball Reference any more. How do you pull up total Win Shares for that period?

    Putting Melo in is really ridiculous given he has been irrelevant for five years. And Kobe. But whatever.

  5. vincoug

    Pretty bad list once you get past the 1st team. Marc Gasol is pretty washed now but I’d still put him and probably Dray over Aldridge. Probably over Giannis too since his placement is really based off of the last 3 seasons. Don’t think Wade deserves to be there either, he fell off a cliff around 2013-14.

  6. Owen

    Thanks Vincoug.

    Lowry maybe? He’s been consistent and solid and has a chip.

    The list is a little light on big men but so is the NBA these days I guess….

  7. Stratomatic: Sometimes referred to as Satan

    I’d put prime Chris Paul over James Harden all day every day.

  8. Farfa

    Kobe over Kyrie is simply ridiculous. Melo doesn’t make sense either, and it’s hard to leave Draymond Green out.

  9. alsep73

    Off-topic on this thread, but still on basketball: was looking at Tommy Beer’s article about the 2021 free agent class. Giannis is obviously the big fish, and the one I assume Perry is building his current strategy around. Kawhi can be a FA again, but I assume he structured his current Clippers deal that way so he can cash in on a supermax contract that summer. LeBron is a FA, but will be old and surely won’t be leaving Los Angeles. I remain weirdly Paul George agnostic, despite his play this past season, plus I assume he also wants to stay in LA. So if Giannis doesn’t come and the LA guys are already off the table, who from that class would we most want? Oladipo? Beal? Gobert, to create the 21st century twin towers?

  10. thenamestsam

    Fun topic.

    One interesting one that seems right at first until you look a little closer is Kawhi on the first team. A lot of recency bias points in making it I think. 3 all-star nods, 2 all-nba 1st teams and 1 2nd team is pretty light for a guy on this list. Only 22nd in win shares over that period (thanks vincoug). Since CP3 is really the obvious guy left off if we’re ignoring the positional restrictions I’d put him over Kawhi. With the positional restrictions there isn’t anyone else that has an overwhelming case, but arguably the guy I’d pick is someone left off the list completely somehow, Dwight Howard. I get it, everyone hates him now, but during this decade he has 3 all-nba 1st teams, a 2nd and a 3rd, 5 all-star, 2 DPOY.

  11. Dink

    No idea who the Knicks should target if they can’t get Giannis or PG. Oladipo will be 29 and Beal will be 28, wouldn’t be surprising if either guy started to fall off in year 3 or 4 of a max deal. Gobert will be a similar age but I expect him to age better than either of the guards.

    The twin towers idea intrigues me a lot. It would be a great rebounding team and the best interior D in the league. Offense would have a whole lot of spacing issues if Mitch never develops an outside shot though. I’d roll the dice on it. Should be able to trade on of the two for a nice haul if it doesn’t work out.

  12. JK47

    So if Giannis doesn’t come and the LA guys are already off the table, who from that class would we most want? Oladipo? Beal? Gobert, to create the 21st century twin towers?

    This is why it was stupid to roll over the cap space with the armada of mediocre 1+1 contracts, and why the cap space should have been used to take on bad contracts and acquire assets in the process. There are just not very many marquee, max-worthy players hitting the market in the next few years.

    We’ll be treading water in this fashion for the forseeable future until somebody just says “fuck it” and mega-maxes 30-year old Bradley Beal.

  13. Bruno Almeida

    The plan obviously has to be Giannis, he’s probably going to be the only real mega star that will be available to even talk to us (considering Leonard won’t want to move away from LA again).

    I’d say no on Gobert as Mitch and him probably can’t really co-exist, and while I like Oladipo he’s a secondary star if we want to be s real contender. Let’s see first what we have from the youngster and see how we feel about Mitch, Barrett, Knox etc in the next two seasons. If Mitch becomes a more dynamic offensive player he could be a superstar, and there’s a chance, although I admit it’s low, that Barrett shows good promise until then. If literally everything goes right we could be in a position to add a secondary star to the team because we already have one, which would make those guys far more interesting as free agents.

  14. Owen

    It’s Giannis or bust. We just need a way to make ourselves as attractive as possible.

    Mitch and the Freak on the same floor would be pretty awesome.

    I mean, it’s never happening. But that’s the slender hope that will sustain us for the next two years.

  15. JK47

    So next year we just do the same 1+1 contract scheme, with hopes that the savior really really comes here this time in 2021? I mean, I know the answer to this is “yes,” but isn’t everybody kind of tired of clearing out salary space, filling in the roster with a bunch of stopgap players, then whiffing on the big free agent prize du jour because nobody wants to play for James Dolan’s douchebag ass? Because it seems we’ve done that kind of a lot of times now.

  16. Ingmarrrr

    No Draymond is outrageous. Do they even pay attention to the games at nba.com? I’d take him over Melo, Griffin, Wade, Kobe, Aldridge, George, and probably Westbrook although with his triple double seasons you have to include him.

  17. vincoug

    The only way it makes sense to target a non-Giannis free agent in 2021 is if Ntilikina or Knox take a massive leap in the next two years or Barrett is as good as some people believe he can be.

    Personally, I don’t think either scenario is likely and think we’re repeating the Phil Jackson years. We’re currently in the “sign Robin Lopez, Aaron Afflalo, and Derrick Williams to try and win 30 games and then good players will want to sign here” stage. In another year or two we’ll be in the “trade and sign broken down players who used to be good” stage and I’m really excited to see Westbrook in a Knicks uniform.

  18. Bruno Almeida

    @20

    Yeah, it’s a crazy omission. There’s no justification for leaving him out for Blake, Melo or Aldridge, and that’s just counting forwards.

  19. GoNYGoNYGo - Dolan must sell

    if Giannis doesn’t come and the LA guys are already off the table, who from that class would we most want? Oladipo? Beal? Gobert, to create the 21st century twin towers?

    First, I believe that there’s a 0% (or less) chance that the Greek Freak comes to the team that drafted his brother but gave him only 6 minutes on the floor before cutting bait.
    Second, my answer is – nobody. The Knicks have to start making draft picks work. Without that there’s nothing.

  20. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    I know the pu-pu platter of power forwards probably puts us in a poor predicament, BUT the Knicks can end up with a 22yo Dennis Smith Jr, a 19 yo RJ Barrett, a 25 yo Julius Randle, and 21 yo Mitchell Robinson as starters for the majority of next season, and all of those guys have pretty high ceilings as far as what level of player they can eventually turn into. The Knicks have Dennis Smith Jr, Elfrid Payton, Frank Ntilikina, Damyean Dotson, RJ Barrett, Allonzo Trier, Iggy Brazdeikis, Kevin Knox, Julius Randle, and Mitchell Robinson on the 15 man roster, and I think we have the youngest roster in the NBA. Punting the cap space was a poor idea but I don’t think the “sign a bunch of vets and win 30 games” strategy is a real thing. Looking at the roster, it’s clear to me they’re trying to build a young team.

    Also, Frank Ntilikina had 6 assists and 2 steals in like 15 minutes of play against Turkey in an exhibition. He missed all three of his shots but what else is new?

  21. vincoug

    It’s not like we didn’t have any young players back then either. We had just drafted 20 year old Porzingis and 23 year old Jerian Grant. We signed 24 year old Derrick Williams and 25 year old Kyle O’Quinn.

  22. BigBlueAL

    I know Melo gets alot of grief on this site but looking back at his stats this past decade Melo was pretty freaking good in his couple of months here in 2011 and in his first 3 full seasons with the Knicks. Those were the best seasons of his career and in the 2012-13 and 2013-14 seasons he was a legit superstar for his play on the court not just for his overinflated reputation.

    Unfortunately it was all downhill after that.

  23. Knew Your Nicks

    Melo is one of the best offensive players I’ve seen in my life. Not having the luxury of True Help on his Knicks prime played its role on his reputation/legacy imo
    Dwight was the best Center of his crappy Centers era but comparing him to Legendary Centers he’s Trash.
    Draymond is the Most Passionate Hard Working Overachiever All Arounder of the Decade but he had a lot of help from his Legend teammates also.

  24. Early Bird

    It’s crazy to me that Dirk didn’t make the list. Unlike Kobe he played the whole decade and actually played well for most of it. How quickly we forget our legends (he literally just retired this year). He also won a championship this decade as the only clear-cut offensive star on his team.*

    *Let’s shelve the Chandler offense debate and just give Dirk his props for now.

    Amazingly, Aldridge is the only quasi-center on the list, maybe Giannis. Forget the lack of pf’s. At their peaks, Chandler, Hibbert and Gobert are absolute game changers on defense. Depending on how you categorize them, Al Horford and the Gasol brothers belong in the discussion for PF/C.

  25. JK47

    Melo was very similar in terms of fame and on-court impact to Dominique Wilkins. He was the Dominique of his day. They were very, very similar players.

  26. Knew Your Nicks

    Dominique had also little help…

    Kobe Out Dirk In seems fair to me.

    Hibbert’s and Chandler’s D absolute game changer?
    hmm …..

  27. Stratomatic: Sometimes referred to as Satan

    Also, Frank Ntilikina had 6 assists and 2 steals in like 15 minutes of play against Turkey in an exhibition. He missed all three of his shots but what else is new?

    So far he looks like a taller, more aggressive, better play making version of the same guy that doesn’t shoot and can’t hit the shot when he does. It’s rather frustrating watching highlights. On one level he looks likes there’s a ton of potential there, but on another it’s the same BS we are used to.

  28. Knew Your Nicks

    After watching the European semifinal between Spain and Greece Under18 i couldn’t avoid noticing 2 spagnards who seem like the next BIG Euro Thing.
    Keep in mind these 2 names and try to remember them if someone draft em sooner or later.
    Aldama
    Garuba

  29. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Draymond is the Most Passionate Hard Working Overachiever All Arounder of the Decade but he had a lot of help from his Legend teammates also.

    Yes, he’s competitive, but we need to stop conflating “passion” or “hard work” with “elite spatial awareness” and “eidetic memory,” which is what he has.

    Did LeBron’s memory of the fourth quarter surprise you?

    Kerr: “Not for a great player. I think great players remember everything. It’s like a quarterback.”

    Your guys do?

    Kerr: “Yeah. Not all of them [laughs]. Draymond would be the same way.

    “We’ll be watching tape of a game from, we played Houston in December or something, and guys will be like, ‘Oh yeah, I remember that. This is what happened next.’

    “So I don’t think it’s that rare. But the best players generally remember the most and have the sharpest memories.”

  30. 2FOR18, understands math

    “This article is meant for Democrats and undecideds, so if you’re solidly Republican or uninterested in American politics, you should skip this one.”

    Had to respond to this….. This phrasing is shit. There are more points of view than Democrat or Republican or uninterested. Your lack of imagination and knowledge of this is duly noted. Might as well change the motto of the site to: Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks. Democratic talking points.

  31. 2FOR18, understands math

    As long as the conservative media has a stronghold in this country,

    LMAO.

  32. Dink

    Had to respond to this….. This phrasing is shit. There are more points of view than Democrat or Republican or uninterested.

    Preach, dude. What about the Whigs, Federalists, Know Nothings, etc.? Mike obviously doesn’t care about their opinions. Real shame.

  33. 2FOR18, understands math

    Hey Mike, did you see the last debate where Joe Biden was roasted for Obama’s policies? You know, the guy you voted for and undyingly supported in the distant past of 2008 and 2012?

  34. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Had to respond to this….. This phrasing is shit. There are more points of view than Democrat or Republican or uninterested. Your lack of imagination and knowledge of this is duly noted. Might as well change the motto of the site to: Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks. Democratic talking points.

    Does anyone else find it rich that the guy who says that he needs to self-medicate before he leaves the house so he doesn’t hurt anyone is the very same person trying to teach the board about ethical and responsible political behavior?

    You’d make an excellent guest on InfoWars.

  35. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Oh shit, now 2FOR18 is coming for Mike K. himself? This is gonna get juicy.

    Yeah, tell ’em, 2FOR18! Get ‘im! Make him taste your freedom! Slap him with the liberty!

  36. 2FOR18, understands math

    Oh look. It’s Jowles changing the subject and not addressing the point at hand. I’m shocked that there’s gambling in this establishment!

  37. geo

    So far he looks like a taller, more aggressive, better play making version of the same guy that doesn’t shoot and can’t hit the shot when he does. It’s rather frustrating watching highlights. On one level he looks likes there’s a ton of potential there, but on another it’s the same BS we are used to.

    too bad all that potential couldn’t nab us a late 1st round pick at the draft…isn’t it in october when we have to pick up his 2020 – 2021 option year?

    he’s definitely not worth 5 million this year, and can’t imagine he’ll be worth 6 million the season after…

  38. geo

    seems like we have more than a few politically conservative folks sharing their views…doesn’t seem much fun to debate with a bunch of posters whom all share the same views…not that i personally have much desire to debate with anyone about anything – what’s wrong with me :(

    but, it is interesting at times to read people advocating for their differing views…

  39. 2FOR18, understands math

    Oh shit, now 2FOR18 is coming for Mike K. himself? This is gonna get juicy.

    Boring double plus good group think pablum I can get from Samantha Bee.
    It’s below this site.

    Props to Strat and bobneptune for going against the grain

  40. geo

    what this site really needs is the inclusion of very valuable polls…that will help to clarify things really well…

    yeah, it’s late in the day and i’m getting loopy…make this work day end…

  41. 2FOR18, understands math

    Agree with @49. But Mike made a point to dehumanize and mischaracterize his political opponents into cartoon characterizations of his imagination on a sports site.

  42. Knew Your Nicks

    I’d take Klay Thompson over Draymond for the best of the decade.
    That’s an absolute game changer.
    Shoots&D for Bball seminars.

  43. thenoblefacehumper

    Agree with @49. But Mike made a point to dehumanize and mischaracterize his political opponents into cartoon characterizations of his imagination on a sports site.

    He…literally just said you probably won’t enjoy the article if you’re not left-leaning. I guess he sure was right!

  44. GoNYGoNYGo - Dolan must sell

    @49

    There are so many places on the internet to argue with people about politics.

    True. But there’s no conversations between people of different political persuasions on the internet.

  45. thenoblefacehumper

    One game is one game, but if as a third-year NBA player you’re purely a specialist of sorts against Turkey…it probably ain’t happening.

  46. geo

    True. But there’s no conversations between people of different political persuasions on the internet.

    or in DC…

  47. 2FOR18, understands math

    He…literally just said you probably won’t enjoy the article if you’re not left-leaning. I guess he sure was right!

    He literally didn’t say that. Read what he wrote again.
    If his intent is to only appeal to Democrats, he should be honest and change the name and motto of the site to reflect that.
    He jumped the shark by posting a Democratic party cock sucking article and he needs to own it.

  48. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    I deleted both my Facebook and Twitter, but I won’t delete my Knickerblogger.

    cock sucking

    while you’re down there, love

  49. Knew Your Nicks

    Democracy and Theatre were invented in Greece around the same time.
    Pretty similar and very delusional.
    Just like Tyson Chandler’s D.
    Looks tough and aggressive but in reality it’s just yelling and acting while there’s a sign in the paint saying “the party is here”.

  50. JK47

    If his intent is to only appeal to Democrats, he should be honest and change the name and motto of the site to reflect that.
    He jumped the shark by posting a Democratic party cock sucking article and he needs to own it.

    Come on snowflake, he even gave you a trigger warning

  51. Ntilakilla

    Agree with @49. But Mike made a point to dehumanize and mischaracterize his political opponents into cartoon characterizations of his imagination on a sports site.

    No one needs to misrepresent you when your every post makes you seem more politically outlandish than the last. Mike was making an appeal to a specific type of voter with his last article. Your aggrievement because the resulting thread did not cater to your political outlook signals an entitlement typical of your usual MAGA Chud voter who is angry that the political discourse is catering less and less to people like them with every year. Grow up.

    And if people don’t want to engage with basketball in the middle of an NBA offseason where Frank Ntilikina FIFA videos and Kobe Bryant All NBA Team debates are the most compelling basketball topics for discussion that should be okay as well. I am sure we’ll get back to arguing about another sub .500 Knicks season real soon when the preseason gets underway.

  52. Owen

    Had to respond to this…..

    Couldn’t you have responded on that actual thread? Why bring it in here?.

    Melo was like Nique, just without any of the cool dunks.

  53. DRed

    I think the better argument re: Melo & Bosh is that neither one of them deserve to be on the all decade team.

  54. Knew Your Nicks

    I still believe in Ntilikina !
    And that’s Not politics !
    Its Intuition.
    My previous intuition was faith in Phil Jackson’s plan !!!

  55. Bruno Almeida

    But isn’t Mike like, free to write whatever he wants wherever he wants? Why would he need to own up to anything when he’s merely asserting his right of free speech?

    What a snowflake. Create your own blog, you’re free to do so.

  56. Ntilakilla

    Melo was like Nique, just without any of the cool dunks.

    Or epic playoff moments. That duel between Dominique and Bird in Game 7 of the 1988 Eastern Conference Semifinals was one of the greatest showdowns in NBA postseason history. I’m hardpressed to think of or find a Melo playoff performance on that level of greatness.

  57. 2FOR18, understands math

    But isn’t Mike like, free to write whatever he wants wherever he wants? l

    Yes

  58. GoNYGoNYGo - Dolan must sell

    As for the 3 teams. Klay and Draymond are great and I would put them ahead of Melo and Aldrich, but much of my downgrading of Melo is based on assumptions about his attitude, which I really don’t know. I just never felt he made his team mates better. And there was that whole Jeremy Lin thing. And it’s so interesting that both of them are whining in the same off-season.

  59. Knew Your Nicks

    @68
    Melo vs Pacers wasn’t bad.
    Hibbert’s block on that one was definitely game changer and heartbreaker…
    If he only had some help on these series….

  60. Ntilakilla

    But isn’t Mike like, free to write whatever he wants wherever he wants? Why would he need to own up to anything when he’s merely asserting his right of free speech?

    Didn’t you know? MAGA Chuds only stump for free speech when it’s freedom to say what they want to hear and say. When someone else expresses an alternative view they don’t want to hear or say then their feelings take precedence over that person’s freedom of speech – see Colin Kaepernick for example.

  61. DRed

    Melo vs Pacers wasn’t bad.
    Hibbert’s block on that one was definitely game changer and heartbreaker…
    If he only had some help on these series…

    He did, but our coach didn’t know why the team was good and kept them on the bench so he could play a bunch of guys who couldn’t hit a shot. (in Jason Kidd’s case, literally, as he went 0-8 in his 90 minutes)

  62. Knew Your Nicks

    When the 2/3 of your so called Big3 are nowhere near big you don’t have a chance…

  63. Knew Your Nicks

    I know Melo’s heroball addiction. I’m well aware of his allergy to D and his Diva symptoms but man ….he deserved better as also the Knicks during the first half of the decade….
    If only there were No Fire Extinguishers near the lockers….

  64. Ntilakilla

    I know Melo’s heroball addiction. I’m well aware of his allergy to D and his Diva symptoms but man ….he deserved better as also the Knicks during the first half of the decade….

    Did he really? I think he lost the right to complain about the lack of surrounding talent on the roster after forcing that midseason trade where the Knicks gutted their team out, sending Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, Felton, Mozgov, the 2014 1st round draft pick. I understand he was going to have to sacrifice millions upon millions of dollars if he waited to go FA in offseason instead, but those are the types of sacrifices you do make to give yourself better talent to work with.

  65. Knew Your Nicks

    Melo is not Ghandhi to make sacrifices.
    If Amare and Chandler had brought their game and their balls during the playoffs we would have seen better days….
    That’s what im saying

  66. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    The Knicks were better than the Pacers that year. Kevin Garnett tore Carmelo Anthony’s shoulder in Game 5 of the previous series and Tyson Chandler got sick all of a sudden (he had lost like 15 pounds or something wild like that). History is going to tell us Roy Hibbert’s blocked shot changed the trajectory of that series, but that’s bullshit. The Knicks had bad luck with health at the worst possible time, and then Dolan’s Razor shredded through whatever chance we had to be a good team after that. Imagine if the 2013-2014 Knicks’ starting five was Felton, Shumpert, Melo, Copeland, and Chandler? It’s crazy how one trade, the Bargnani deal, threw off the entire decade for Knicks fans.

  67. Bruno Almeida

    @81

    He’s not Gandhi, but he also had the choice whether to gut his own team or not. It was his decision to prioritize the money over better teammates and more assets, so it’s at least partly his own fault he didn’t have much help.

    I also think Dominique was simply a better player than him. He was about as efficient as Melo, but at a time where the league was less efficient as a whole (his ts% on his prime is close to Bird’s career numbers, for example), and he was so crazy durable for most of his prime, until the injuries finally caught up with him. Obviously he wasn’t on the level of the top guys at the time, but I’d argue he was closer to them than Melo was to the stars of his era.

  68. DRed

    I wish we’d put a better team together notwithstanding the constraints we had because of the Melo trade overpay, but Melo himself didn’t do anything to deserve a better team-he actively did things that made it harder to put together a good team around him.

    Look at the series box scores on b-ref and that series loss is on Woodson and to a lesser extent guys like JR, Felton and Shumpert, who were absolute bricklayers. (Melo wasn’t all that good himself, but he was banged up and it’s not like anyone else was making a shot)

  69. Ntilakilla

    Melo is not Ghandhi to make sacrifices.

    And the Knicks are not miracle workers. It works both ways.

  70. Knew Your Nicks

    I don’t blame the Knicks.
    Just the 2/3s of the big3 who weren’t big when it really mattered.

  71. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    ….he deserved better as also the Knicks during the first half of the decade….

    The Knicks gutted their roster AND mortgaged their future to acquire Melo six months before he could have joined as a free agent. They could have signed Chandler and used those trade assets to get another star player back in return. If four players and two picks were enough for Melo while everyone still (erroneously) thought that he was a legit superstar, they were certainly enough to get someone else.

    Melo robbed Peter to pay Paul. There’s no way around it.

  72. Z-man

    I don’t really blame Melo one iota for what the Knicks gave up for him. Just like I don’t blame Westbrook or Paul George or AD for costing their respective teams multiple assets. It is totally up to management to decide what a player is worth.

    The only thing I blame Melo for is being more interested in money and glory than winning. But that was crystal clear before he was signed and again, that’s on management.

    That said, I truly believe that prime Melo surrounded by the right players is a winning player. I always contended that he couldn’t be the brains or the leader of a championship team. He had Paul Pierces talent but not his brain or heart. He needed a player better than him to bring out his best, kind of like Jason Kidd was doing before his untimely demise.

  73. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    I don’t really blame Melo one iota for what the Knicks gave up for him.

    The Knicks had to agree to the trade, so yeah, Melo is not alone in sharing blame. But he shares it, without question.

    No news here: when you yourself are the cause of the gutting, you can’t complain about not having the pieces. But do we really believe that Melo in 2011 had thought about roster construction and asset management the way that this board has, with a few dozen sharp minds turning over NBA strategy daily? I doubt that very much.

    Melo is not a dumb guy, but he’s also (by virtue of being a celebrity athlete) surrounded by yes-men and fellow peers who are surrounded by yes-men. Coaches and trainers are the closest we get to the king’s fool, and even they have to massage egos and mince words to maintain control. Do we really think there were people in his inner circle saying, “Hey Melo, you’re real good and all, but maybe you should let the Knicks keep their future draft picks in case you aren’t good enough to alone carry the team to the Conference Finals?” That conversation between Melo and a fellow Real Hooper™ would be a nonstarter. Melo would not be the first anti-hero to fall to his own hubris.

  74. Knew Your Nicks

    I don’t believe he could have joined the knicks 6 months later and the nuggets let him go for nothing.
    Those were different times.
    He wanted NY, Denver wanted something in return.
    Knicks gave a few players and 3 picks, got a few players and a Superstar.
    Dont see mortgaged future and gutted roster.
    All i see is a fair trade.

  75. Knew Your Nicks

    Knicks decided to go WIN NOW mode put Melo next to Stat, brought a third BIG in TChandler and had their chance but….the experiment failed….
    Some blame Melo, I blame The others, All blame Dolan,FO and Lady Luck.
    The truth is that it was FUN but it could have been Much More Fun than that …and that’s Not on Melo imo

  76. geo

    Blame it on the Mediterranean sun !

    just the word: mediterranean sounds nice…

    I wanna be there…

  77. Bruno Almeida

    He was a free agent, Denver could have done literally nothing to keep him there. They could have traded him for another team, but if he wanted the Knicks he would simply play the remaining of the season and sign with us.

    The trade itself wasn’t even the biggest problem, it was Amare going down (as expected to be honest) and the subsequent terrible moves. But the trade destroyed the team’s assets for a player who quite simply wasn’t worth all the assets.

    I actually can’t believe we’re going through all this again, but you seem well intentioned so it’s fine.

  78. Z-man

    @90 I think you’re oversimplifying things. It was a CBA negotiation year and Melo and his guys were concerned that the new CBA (or a lockout) would present too much uncertainty to wait to be a FA. In any case, it was the Knicks giving in to Ujiri’s demands that was the problem. What was melo supposed to do, tell Ujiri, “Hey, don’t include too many pieces or else…”

    Let’s also remember that if we didn’t trade for Melo, we probably would have traded for Deron. That probably wouldn’t have worked out well either.

  79. Knew Your Nicks

    The truth is that im going to sleep right now but I’ll just say that:
    2 years after getting Melo we’re almost going to conference finals.
    And the guy is playing his ass off game after game.
    Can you blame him for not being contenders ?
    I can’t. Not him.

  80. Brian Cronin Post author

    Melo never complained about his lack of quality teammates when he was here. I always admired that about him. I mean, I was annoyed that he pushed for the Knicks to gut the team for him by not ruling out signing an extension with the Nets, but at least he was never a hypocrite about it. He never complained about not having better teammates.

    As to Melo’s scenario at the time, he was clearly scared shitless about the CBA, but really, he was a moron to even be in the position where he had to be worried about the CBA. When every other guy in his draft class was taking a shorter extension so that they became free agents a year before the CBA ended, Melo put money above all else, which he did for his entire career, so he was a free agent a year later than them. It was a weird way to do things, but hey, it was his career. He put money ahead of everything and it hurt his legacy, but he still has, like, 17 Olympic Gold Medals, a NCAA Championship and will be a first ballot Basketball Hall of Famer. He did fine in the end.

  81. GoNYGoNYGo - Dolan must sell

    just the word: mediterranean sounds nice…
    I wanna be there…

    I’ll be lying on the shores of the Mediterranean next Sunday!

    Melo taught us a lesson. The grass is not always greener on the other side. Both sides take blame in the trade but honestly, I don’t think any of the scrubs we gave up, including Gallanari, were anything more than potential complimentary pieces. No. There was no winning with him when LeBron was around and at his peak.

    I do feel bad for him and Lin and others who have been aged out of the game. They should have jobs, even if it’s on the bench. Trouble is, Melo would never sit on the bench. That pride thing is an awful problem for him. As for top 15 in the 2010’s, he was just a star (best player on a team) but not a superstar (top 15 over a decade) in my eyes. Melo had negative intangibles that prevent him (in my eyes) from cracking that elite super-star barrier.

  82. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    They should have jobs, even if it’s on the bench.

    Why? Melo is a trainwreck of a player on both ends of the ball. You know who should have a job? A young player who can actually compete. The NBA should be a meritocracy, not an old boys club for guys 5+ years past their prime.

  83. alsep73

    Hooray, a non-politics thread! (That I assume will quickly turn back into a politics thread.)

    Took 7 hours, but… yup.

  84. Bruno Almeida

    I will never feel bad about a guy who made like 250+ millions playing basketball and is not playing solely because he has never shown franchises around the league he would be fine with a lesser role, which is his own fault.

  85. thenoblefacehumper

    Melo’s priorities were always obvious to anyone paying attention. Every decision he made was about maximizing guaranteed money. He’s being refreshingly honest about that now (see his interview on First Take), which might indicate he has some regrets, but we knew this about him in, like, 2010.

    Regardless, it’s hard for me to blame him too much when our guys charged with basketball operations seemingly agreed with his comically inflated valuation of himself as a player. During the trade negotiations we were downright terrified of losing him to the Nets, and during his free agency we were too scared about pissing him off to do any kind of negotiation. We got what we deserved for valuing a borderline all-star talent, the kind that teams let walk all the time if they don’t think the price is right, like he was an all-NBA first team talent.

  86. KnickfaninNJ

    Took 7 hours, but… yup.

    Are you sure you would rather discuss Melo merits and demerits?

  87. alsep73

    Are you sure you would rather discuss Melo merits and demerits?

    YES. As depressing as it can be to root for this stupid damn team, I have traditionally looked at this site as a haven from the messes happening elsewhere in the world. If given the choice between another debate about libertarianism and one about the merits of the Bargnani trade, whether Tyson Chandler was a superstar, if we should have matched the Jeremy Lin contract, whether there is any hope that Frank can be a productive NBA player, shameless tanking vs. aiming for 30+ wins, player options vs. team options, etc, etc, etc, I’ll take all the recycled Knicks topics again and again and again. Every single time.

    I was relieved when Mike set up a separate post about politics, and had hoped that discussion would remain confined there. Instead, we’re back to the same nonsense I get way too much in other corners of the internet and real life. I know this is a really dry period for basketball news, but we’re nearing a point where I may need to leave here at least until training camp starts.

  88. Owen

    I second that. Let’s just keep the politics on the politics thread, to the extent possible.

    Honestly, I could talk about how much I dislike Carmelo a lot more. It’s a topic I really don’t get tired off.

  89. DRed

    YES. As depressing as it can be to root for this stupid damn team, I have traditionally looked at this site as a haven from the messes happening elsewhere in the world. If given the choice between another debate about libertarianism and one about the merits of the Bargnani trade, whether Tyson Chandler was a superstar, if we should have matched the Jeremy Lin contract, whether there is any hope that Frank can be a productive NBA player, shameless tanking vs. aiming for 30+ wins, player options vs. team options, etc, etc, etc, I’ll take all the recycled Knicks topics again and again and again. Every single time.

    Preach!

    I realize it’s impossible to keep politics out of discussions, but every fucking thread is stressful.

  90. alsep73

    Okay, then here’s something simultaneously sad and optimistic: what would the 2011-12 team have looked like if Melo had waited to sign as a free agent? What was our cap situation supposed to be going into that summer? Would it have just been the Stat/Gallo/Felton team plus Melo? Room for more? Would some of the young guys have to be moved just to create space?

  91. Sly Wi-yums

    At one point in his career, Melo was at least top 15 player. His tenure on the list occurred mostly on Denver, and for a short while on the Knicks. I acknowledge that Melo was super skilled and he absolutley carried the 54 win team with that brand of oh no shot making the happened to go in way too often which further compounded his ball greediness. Not sure Melo had the staying power to be included in this decades’s list, but he was at one time at least 3rd team all NBA for a few seasons.

    The ‘nique comp is appropriate. I recall a former teammate of Wilkins highlighting his impact on team ball: (paraphrased) “he would go one on three, and if he was well defended would chuck a bad pass at your ankles with 2 seconds left on the clock and give you shit for missing the shot, wasting his generosity” I think melo may have been less contemptuous, but how many times would he get the ball and take 10 seconds to fake 5 jab steps and settle for a long two? If he passed it usually was not ideal and did not lead to a good shot. Poisonous.

  92. Stratomatic: Sometimes referred to as Satan

    As long as the conservative media has a stronghold in this country,

    LMAO.

    That was the funniest line of all time.

    Fox and right wing talk radio don’t have high ratings because they are good. They are actually a big pile of dog sh!t. They have good ratings because a few people were smart enough to realize that if they provided right wing spin the way CNN, NY Times, Wash Post, ABC, NBC, CBS, etc.. provide left wing spin, they could dominate the market. Everyone to the right of center (from the moderates all the way down to the extremist dregs) gravitated to the one and only place that gave them the spin that was closest to their own world view. The left has so many more options the market share of each suffers due to the much greater competition.

    Of course, that leaves people like me in a bind. I just want all the facts without intentional or unintentional spin. I don’t want to be in a self imposed state of delusion because I only listen to one side.

    Personally, I hate most of them. They are mostly a bunch self absorbed divisive propaganda producing s-bags. They force me to go searching for the truth using primary sources when available because no one is actually even trying to tell the truth anymore. They are just trying to influence the sheep for their own personal political and financial gain.

  93. Owen

    I have said it many times before but Melo just had an unbelievably narrow skill set. He couldn’t defend. He didn’t score in transition. He didn’t shoot the three ball that well or enough when he was going good. By the end of his career he almost never generated any easy dunks off drives or cuts. His passing was ok. He definitely showed talent there but his production kind of faded in and out.

    He was basically just a guy who could soak up a huge amount of volume operating from 18 feet out on the right wing and at the foul line and converting at moderate efficiency with relatively few turnovers. That was it.

    It’s amazing to me that he had the career he did given how utterly predictable he was for the last 5 years of his useful NBA life. I think that explains more than anything his appeal. Everyone in the world knew what he was going to do and couldn’t really stop it.

    I do think Melo is a pretty instructive case of the value of winning an NCAA title. So many things go differently for him I think without that in terms of public perception. It set up such a positive cascade for a player who really was at best just a fringe all-star.

  94. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Remember when he passed on a 3PA, took a dribble inside the arc, drained a 2, and then apologized to the Rockets’ bench while jogging back up the court? The only thing that would have made that more Melo is if it clanged off the back of the rim and he forgot to run back for transition D.

  95. Frank O.

    I don’t mind the political debate, when it’s debate.
    But it’s just embarrassing to read people find creative ways to call each other stupid.

    Trump is a boor, in some ways a fool, and some ways not, and to blame white nationalism on him misses the point. He is a horrid soul for leveraging the hate that already exists, but this is our history from day one. I have listened to it from lawmakers in the halls of Congress for years, coded.
    Treating Trump as if he is an aberration or the cause is a mistake.
    I worry about the debt bubble. There are no fiscal conservatives.
    US debt is 106% of GDP, and growing by more than a trillion a year under GOP leadership. We have cut taxes through two wars and the longest period of sustained economic growth in history. We are the center of the world’s economy, until we aren’t anymore. Classic bubble.

    Democrats again will be forced to make tough choices on taxes and spending, with Republicans spit-balling every single move as if they are credible on spending and taxation.
    And now the Fed is cutting rates to sustain GDP growth numbers. What will the Fed do when the economy finally goes into recession and the rate cuts aren’t there? The GOP will scream that a down economy is the worst time to raise taxes, which isn’t wrong, but tax increases do make sense when an economy is hot.
    But then, my GOP friends say, what of “entitlements,” which really aren’t since you pay for them. I don’t have a good answer. But I have a belief that healthcare, education and infrastructure are investments. All of which benefit the economy. And to counter American Balkanization, I’m for compulsory national service of some kind. Service redefines Americanism away from consumerism and the mythology of exceptionalism and grounds it in the things that bind us as one. It means humanizing people from all corners of the country.
    I’m sure this will trigger ode’s to the downtrodden rich, but that’s fine.

  96. JK47

    Are you really equating the nonstop 24-hour Trump rimjob that is Fox News with the Washington Post? Did you suffer some sort of massive head injury at some point in your life?

    Have you seen those supercut videos where various Fox News heads bash Obama for *considering* speaking with Kim Jong Un, interspersed with the same talking heads tongue-bathing Trump’s asshole for going and *actually* speaking with Kim Jong Un? Does that sort of thing happen on CNN? Where’s the supercut of that?

  97. Frank O.

    Melo.
    Good Lord.
    What might have been if he stayed at Syracuse for a couple more years…lol

  98. Frank O.

    Without the NY Times and the Washington Post, there would be virtually no check on government corruption.

  99. geo

    I always thought melo could have averaged more assists…

    at times it seemed he did try to focus a little more on getting his teammates involved, but, usually if he got the ball – he wasn’t giving it up…

    really wish we had just kept gallo…

    mozgov was fun to watch for a while, but, like melo, the proliferation of the 3pt shot made his game obsolete…

  100. Frank O.

    Melo
    career
    eFG% 482, well below historic league averages
    TS% 542, the historic average
    Usage% 30.8

    Those advanced stats read like the definition of losing.

  101. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Amen to Frank O. but replace compulsive service with greater incentives to young, talented people to serve the federal government.

    Now let’s split the threads please. Please please please. If I have to hear about how NYT and Fox News are two sides of the same coin, I will be forced to write max-character screeds about Brandon Clarke to pull the conversation back to the dregs of May.

  102. alsep73

    Now let’s split the threads please. Please please please.

    What Jowles said. There is a politics thread, created by the great and powerful Mike. Go use it. Have a party.

    The rest of us can stay here and discuss happier things, like Frank’s continuing inability to score even against the likes of Turkey.

  103. geo

    personally, I find damn near every other subject more interesting than politics…

    I’m doubtful too many more folks here have near the focus I do in regards to avoiding too much “real life”…

    I understand though, this is a community, and, other folks will have other interests…

    yeah, I’m a knicks fan, but, i’m here for the folks whom regularly contribute…it’s the people, not the subject matter – that matters :)

    fortunately it doesn’t trouble me too much to come across someone elses political thoughts…I totally have the option of just skimming past that shit and focusing on stuff that interests me…

    although I’ve frighteningly come to learn I just might have an inclination towards seeing an even larger and more intrusive form of government – i gotta say, when it comes to our posters sharing their thoughts:

    #doowutchyalike

    then again, I don’t pay to keep the lights on here – so, doesn’t really matter what I think…

  104. JK47

    Okay, back to the terrible basketball takes instead of the terrible political takes.

    I’ll get the ball rolling: Melo roolz amirite

  105. JK47

    Here’s another off-topic topic: Robinson Cano’s injury is addition by subtraction for the suddenly competent Mets

  106. er

    As the departed RURULAND would say, hey its complicated.

    Melo needed a good pg, he had one for like 4 years of his career. End of story. Everyone cant be lebron and have the ball in their hands at all times and be all time greaT.

  107. Owen

    I mean, what exactly would a great pg have done for Melo? It’s not like he knew how to move without the ball.

  108. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    It’s actually true that Melo’s 2PT AST% was much higher as a young player than with the Knicks.

    His top seasons (peaking at 62.3%) were age 20, 21, 22, 23, 19.

    His bottom season (an incredible 27% low) were all with the Knicks: 31, 28, 29, 32, 27.

    So yeah, he was playing with Andre Miller (ranked 24th all-time in AST% despite playing until he was eligible for social security) and had a much higher assisted rate. But with OKC, he still put up a terrible 37.6% assisted rate on twos, playing with Russ Westbrook, who currently ranks 3rd all-time in AST% and has led the league by a wide margin for the last three years.

  109. Ingmarrrr

    If I have to hear about how NYT and Fox News are two sides of the same coin

    I just had an argument with my barber on the Israeli version of this. He gives a good cut but damn, I wish I could introduce him to the 2016 finals version of Draymond Green and tell Dray he’s LeBron.

  110. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    So quick story about my ex-barber:

    > go to barber around the corner every 3 weeks for 18 months, tip well
    > never remembers my name despite often being the only guy in the shop, 30-45m per haircut
    > has a gold record on his wall from a b-side he wrote for John Cougar Mellancamp on “Uh Huh”
    > my hair is a real b. to cut and he did it extremely well, so I sat through some real moody and sexist grumbling over that year and a half
    > walk in one day, knock on the door to the back room where he hangs out between customers
    > “be right out”
    > sit in chair, another customer enters and sits on the couch
    > barber comes out, says, “I think some bastard gave me pink eye”
    > look at eye
    > it’s pink eye, oozing puss and all that
    > “Hey, yeah, that’s… that’s definitely conjunctivitis. I’ll come back next week.”
    > “You going to look for a new barber?”
    > “No, I said I was going to come back next week.”
    > “Not here you won’t.
    > what he’s saying registers with me
    > look at other customer, he’s ghastly white and staring at me with the widest eyes I’ve ever seen on a human
    > got the mother fuck outta there

  111. GoNYGoNYGo - Dolan must sell

    Okay, then here’s something simultaneously sad and optimistic: what would the 2011-12 team have looked like if Melo had waited to sign as a free agent? What was our cap situation supposed to be going into that summer? Would it have just been the Stat/Gallo/Felton team plus Melo? Room for more? Would some of the young guys have to be moved just to create space?

    Melo is a one-man show. I don’t think it matter who he had on the roster. The gravitational pull he has on the ball during a game destroys chemistry. The only way he has value is if he’s told that he’s a secondary shooter and gets benched when he behaves differently. That would never happen. That’s why he couldn’t play with Stoudemire or Harden or anyone else.

    I don’t think he’s toast as a player. If healthy, he can play. But who wants that kind of player? Not me.

    Yeah, on politics. I apologize about posting that in this thread. I’ve been in a dark place since the shootings this weekend.

  112. Owen

    “So quick story about my ex-barber:”

    That’s some old school sh#%!

    My barber is down to two days a week and seems to be on vacation 8 months a year.

    Re anyone wanting Melo, NBA is more and more like MLB. Absolutley no reason to hire any past their prime veterans when you can plug in a serviceable young player at 10% of the cost.

  113. chrisconley

    Wow @ new NCAA agent rules. They can’t stop burning bridges with the NBA. Can’t wait for the draft eligibility rule change.

  114. Ingmarrrr

    So quick story about my ex-barber:

    Worse then mine by a mile. I’d go hippy style if he was the only option around.

  115. alsep73

    Melo is a one-man show. I don’t think it matter who he had on the roster. The gravitational pull he has on the ball during a game destroys chemistry. The only way he has value is if he’s told that he’s a secondary shooter and gets benched when he behaves differently.

    I don’t think that’s true. We saw evidence both in Denver and on the Knicks that a winning team with a cohesive and entertaining style of play could exist with Melo not only on the roster, but as the unquestioned alpha of said roster. It didn’t happen often here, but the 54-win team didn’t treat him as a secondary shooter.

  116. Grocer

    I always contended that he couldn’t be the brains or the leader of a championship team. He had Paul Pierces talent but not his brain or heart.

    Maybe but I don’t buy that he was ever willing to be second fiddle. I know, I know, Olympic Melo. I guess if the banana boat crew came together, but he always wanted to be top dog.

  117. Grocer

    We saw evidence both in Denver and on the Knicks that a winning team with a cohesive and entertaining style of play could exist with Melo not only on the roster, but as the unquestioned alpha of said roster.

    Yep. He never adjusted to the changing NBA but had Dolan ever sustained a good roster around him we would have had several years where the Knicks looked something like contenders.

  118. geo

    @135…so, you wanna know what else to talk about – i could read shit like that all day…great story, i loved how you structured it…

    the last “barber” shop i visited felt like the guy was ripping my hair out rather than cutting it…i just go to great clips now – it ain’t like a got a tremendous head of lettuce anymore anyways…

    i do though remember my very first barber ship visit with my dad…old spot in oceanside out on the island…lot’s of older 50’s looking men inside…my dad had gone there as a kid…

    i remember the barber had one of those “glove” massaging devices that he would use on your shoulders after the cut…i can remember seeing his straight razor in his hand when he cleaned up the back of my dad’s neck…

    didn’t really start “enjoying” haircuts til i got in the military and had to get them just about every week…sitting in the chair was a good opportunity to just relax and do nothing for a few minutes…now i just hope for the occasional boob in my ear…

  119. 2FOR18, understands math

    My apologies for bringing it to this thread. I assumed the other one was a dead thread.
    This is the first time I initiated a politics discussion/fight in a thread and it will be the last time I initiate a political discussion/fight.

  120. rama got that Fizdale Magic

    Giannis is obviously the big fish, and the one I assume Perry is building his current strategy around.

    Man, I’ve said this like three times on various threads, but the play is for AD, not Giannis. They know they’re not likely to get Giannis. AD, however, publicly said he wanted to come here, so you know they had conversations with his agent. Since the price was too high, I’m guessing the end of it was simply the agent saying, let’s see how it goes with LeBron; if AD likes it and thinks there’s a future there, we’ll probably stay, but if AD is unhappy (as many of LeBron’s teammates have been), then we’ll talk.

    That’s why the contracts are mostly 1-year deals. A ton of flexibility NEXT OFF-SEASON. It isn’t about Giannis.

  121. vincoug

    Like this?

    Remove the {} below and replace with . Or, you could just use the “link” button just above the text box.

    {a href=”https://i.giphy.com/media/D3OdaKTGlpTBC/giphy.webp” rel=”nofollow”}Like this?{/a}

  122. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    My apologies for bringing it to this thread. I assumed the other one was a dead thread.
    This is the first time I initiated a politics discussion/fight in a thread and it will be the last time I initiate a political discussion/fight.

    paraphrased

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