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Friday, November 16, 2018

Knicks Morning News (2018.08.09)

  • [NYPost] Knicks eyeing this plan for dumping Joakim Noah
    (Wednesday, August 08, 2018 7:03:01 PM)

    So, do you want a big man on the downside of a former All-Star career who played all of seven games last season, has had health issues and is owed $37.8 million over the next two years? If so, have the Knicks got a guy for you. If the Knicks can’t find a taker for…

  • [NYTimes] LeBron James and Lakers to Play the Warriors on Christmas Day
    (Thursday, August 09, 2018 4:12:39 AM)

    Also on the card: Celtics-Sixers and Bucks-Knicks at Madison Square Garden.

  • [NYTimes] Las Vegas Aces Will Forfeit Canceled Game, W.N.B.A. Says
    (Wednesday, August 08, 2018 4:11:51 PM)

    The Aces’ game against the Washington Mystics on Friday night was canceled when the Aces players decided not to play after 26 hours of travel.

  • [ESPN] Sources: Knicks still plan to part ways with Noah
    (Wednesday, August 08, 2018 5:39:59 PM)

    Barring a trade, the New York Knicks still plan to part ways with center Joakim Noah prior to the start of training camp, league sources tell ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski and Ian Begley.

  • [ESPN] LeBron to face Rockets in first LA home game
    (Wednesday, August 08, 2018 1:02:19 PM)

    The Los Angeles Lakers face the Golden State Warriors to highlight the Christmas Day schedule, and LeBron James’ home debut as a Laker will be against the Houston Rockets on Oct. 20, the NBA announced in releasing part of its schedule Wednesday.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks reportedly will not bring Joakim Noah back this season
    (Wednesday, August 08, 2018 6:38:19 PM)

    The Knicks plan to move on from C Joakim Noah before training camp begins, reports Adrian Wojnarowski and Ian Begley of ESPN.

  • [SNY Knicks] Do Knicks fans even want to see these Knicks on Christmas?
    (Wednesday, August 08, 2018 2:00:10 PM)

    Do the Knicks deserve to continually play on Christmas considering their rebuilding process?

  • [NYDN] HARLEM WEEK 2018: Jazz flows through Jazzmobile’s Summerfest 55 concert series
    (Saturday, August 11, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    True to its “We Keep the Music Playing” motto, Jazzmobile’s free “Summerfest 55” outdoor concert series will continue with performances by Yunior Terry and the Oyu Oro Afro-Cuban Experimental Dance Ensemble on Aug. 15 in Manhattan.

    The Summerfest concerts — which take place at the Gen. Grant National…

  • [NYDN] Former head of Jewish frat hit with new sex assault charges in Philadelphia
    (Thursday, August 09, 2018 9:00:00 PM)

    The ousted-president of a shuttered Temple University fraternity has been charged for sexually assaulting a woman, the second to claim she was attacked by the college student leader.

    Ari Goldstein, 21, former head of Jewish frat Alpha Epsilon Pi, was arraigned on rape and involuntary deviate sex…

  • [NYDN] Coney Island man posed as immigration paralegal, scammed dozens filing fraudulent applications: indictment
    (Thursday, August 09, 2018 2:40:00 PM)

    A Coney Island man who allegedly posed as a licensed paralegal has been indicted on charges he profited thousands of dollars filing fraudulent immigration applications — then abandoned his clients.

    Vadim Alekseev, 42, is alleged to have filed 35 asylum applications with the Department of Homeland…

  • [NYDN] Bill gets bold on NYCHA: The mayor looks to mine valuable real estate for the good of long-suffering tenants
    (Thursday, August 09, 2018 1:10:00 AM)

    Based on scolding from fellow progressives, you’d think Mayor de Blasio was betraying his principles by exploring adding hundreds of luxury apartments to a long-planned affordable housing development slated for a parking lot next to the Housing Authority’s Harborview Terrace development in Hell’s…

  • [NYDN] Exclusive: New York senator calls for MGM to drop lawsuit against Las Vegas mass shooting victims if it wants to buy Yonkers casino
    (Thursday, August 09, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    A Westchester state senator says MGM’s bid to purchase a Yonkers racetrack casino should be stymied unless the gambling company kills a lawsuit it brought against victims of last year’s mass shooting at one of its Las Vegas properties.

    “They should withdraw the lawsuit if they want to proceed,…

  • [NYDN] HARLEM WEEK 2018: Blackfrica Promotions marks its 50th anniversary and its contributions to the creation of Harlem Week
    (Thursday, August 09, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    It’s happy anniversaries to Marvin Kelly, who is marking two very special 50th birthdays this year – the start of his career as a sought-after leather craftsperson, and birth of Blackfrica Promotions, the influential Harlem organization that started today’s successful Harlem Week festivities.

    It…

  • [NYDN] HARLEM WEEK 2018: ‘I Love New York’ tourism campaign is set to show love to Harlem, Harlem Week, and Washington Heights
    (Thursday, August 09, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    The numbers are amazing: More than two million visitors trek uptown annually to enjoy Harlem Week, a month-long, fun-filled celebration of one of the nation’s most vibrant communities.

    Now imagine an additional surge of visitors that brings significant economic benefits to the neighborhood and…

  • [NYDN] Snapping out of it: Trump orders Russian sanctions, finally
    (Thursday, August 09, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    Credit the Trump administration for belatedly, begrudgingly punishing Russia for a state-sponsored attempted assassination.

    But don’t gloss over those adverbs.

    It was waaay back in March, days after a former Russian military officer and his daughter were poisoned in England, that the House Foreign…

  • [NYDN] HARLEM WEEK 2018: New York-Cuba connections running strong through Harlem-Havana performances and exhibits
    (Thursday, August 09, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    The annual Harlem/Havana Music and Cultural Festival – one of the visible, ongoing benefits of the normalizing of relations between the U.S. and Cuba four years ago – continues this year with sounds, sights, tastes and experiences that warmly share the Caribbean nation with New Yorkers.

    Long before…

  • [NYDN] HARLEM WEEK 2018: Walk or run at the Percy E. Sutton Run-Walk through historic Harlem
    (Thursday, August 09, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    Think New York road race and imagine svelte elite athletes swiftly gliding along city asphalt.

    But there’s lots more happening for participants – young and older – in the Harlem’s Percy E. Sutton Run-Walk and other events presented by the New York Road Runners.

    The highlight of the 2018 Percy…

  • [NYDN] nixon
    (Thursday, August 09, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    to membership dues deduction,

    §210 Prohibition of Strikes

    1. No public employee or employee organization shall engage in a strike, and no public employee or employee organization shall cause, instigate, encourage, or condone a strike.

    Each empolyee shall be docked two days pay for every day out…

  • [NYDN] HARLEM WEEK 2018: ‘Rebel Women’ in Victorian era stand tall in Museum of the City of New York exhibit
    (Thursday, August 09, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    Elizabeth Jennings Graham was a 24-year–old African-American church organist who rose to the occasion in 1854 after police removed her from a New York City streetcar because she was black. At a time when many women were relegated to household duties and child-rearing, she defiantly went to court,…

  • [NYDN] HARLEM WEEK 2018: Upper Manhattan Auto Show returns — touting classic cars, vintage vehicles and contemporary favorites
    (Thursday, August 09, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    Classic, vintage, immaculate and hot are some of the words to describe the vehicles in Harlem Week’s popular Upper Manhattan Auto Show, coming up on Harlem Day, Aug. 19.

    One of the most anticipated annual events of Harlem Week’s festivities, the auto show features dozens of car greats — ranging…

  • [NYDN] HARLEM WEEK 2018: Appetizers, drinks, entrees and food specials on menus for Harlem Restaurant Week
    (Thursday, August 09, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    Dining is as much a part of Harlem Week as its many social events. And this year, from Aug. 21 through Aug. 26, the establishments participating in Restaurant Week will include Melba’s, Red Rooster and other prominent local and international favorites. In addition, it will include newer eateries…

  • [NYDN] HARLEM WEEK 2018: Celebrating the LGBTQ community, with great pride
    (Thursday, August 09, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    A broad swath of boldface names from the LGBTQ community — from Harlem Renaissance icon Langston Hughes and San Francisco gay rights activist Harvey Milk to CoverGirl spokeswoman Janelle Monáe and New York City politico Christine Quinn — will be honored during Harlem Week 2018.

    “It was brought…

  • [NYDN] Readers sound off on Montefiore hospital, Donald Trump and high schools
    (Thursday, August 09, 2018 12:00:00 AM)

    Montefiore’s poor patient care

    Bronx: Voicer Dr. Steven M. Safyer claims his ER at Montefiore Montefiore Medicine has “extraordinary clinicians offering excellent care.” What Monterfiore offers, except for its occasional fully experienced specialists, is virtually unsupervised interns, residents…

  • [NYDN] Instead of tax cuts, GOP candidates using anxiety to win votes
    (Wednesday, August 08, 2018 11:35:00 PM)

    WASHINGTON — There’s a border crisis in Pennsylvania. The radical left is surging in New Jersey. And Nancy Pelosi is a threat to New York.

    Republican candidates in the nation’s premiere midterm battlegrounds have embraced a central message in their fight to maintain the House majority this fall…

  • [NYDN] Teen girl questioned after missing 7-year-old boy found dead in Colorado
    (Wednesday, August 08, 2018 11:05:00 PM)

    DENVER — A 16-year-old girl is being investigated in the death of a 7-year-old boy who was reported missing in Denver on Monday, authorities said.

    Police found the body of Jordan Vong hidden in his family’s home Tuesday and took the teenage girl into custody for investigation of first-degree murder….

  • [NYDN] Mugger in ‘I Love NY’ T-shirt targets women in Queens, getting more violent with each robbery, cops say
    (Wednesday, August 08, 2018 10:00:00 PM)

    A mugger wearing an “I Love NY” T-shirt has been targeting women in Queens for the past two weeks, and police fear he’s getting more violent with each robbery.

    Cops on Wednesday released a photo and video of the suspect, who has struck five times between July 28 and Sunday.

    He’s zeroed in on women…

  • [NYDN] Serial subway surfer slashed fellow straphanger in Brooklyn: cops
    (Wednesday, August 08, 2018 9:50:00 PM)

    He’s graduated from subway surfer to subway slasher, cops say.

    A 22-year-old daredevil who keeps getting busted for surfing the C train sliced another straphanger’s arm at the Jay Street A and C station last month, according to the NYPD.

    “Why are you watching me?” asked Isaiah Thompson, 22, when…

  • [NYDN] Parkland massacre suspect seen slouched, punching self in bizarre interrogation video
    (Wednesday, August 08, 2018 9:25:00 PM)

    SUNRISE, Fla. — Prosecutors on Wednesday released hours of video interrogation of Florida’s school shooting suspect, footage showing the young man slouching in a chair, being repeatedly urged by a detective to speak louder and punching himself in the face when he is alone.

    The footage contained…

  • [NYDN] Daily Horoscope — August 9, 2018
    (Wednesday, August 08, 2018 9:00:00 PM)

    Via Tarot Astrologers

    General Horoscope for August 9, 2018

    We may feel unloved today as sweet Venus squares off with somber Saturn. We need not worry if a romantic relationship cools now; emotions rise and fall like the tides and we are wise to let them. But Venus forms an irritating connection…

  • [NYDN] SEE IT: Umpire pulls LIVE MOTH out of ear during Yankees – White Sox game
    (Wednesday, August 08, 2018 8:55:00 PM)

    Gross.

    If Yankee fans thought the four-game sweep by the Red Sox was disgusting, an umpire was caught on camera pulling a live moth out of his ear Wednesday night.

    In the visitors’ dugout at Guaranteed Rate Field, Yankees trainer Steve Donohue was seen helping second base umpire Bruce Dreckman…

  • [NYDN] N.J. senator calls Trump’s attack on LeBron James racist
    (Wednesday, August 08, 2018 8:55:00 PM)

    NEWARK, N.J. — New Jersey Democratic U.S. Sen. Bob Menendez says President Donald Trump’s attack on NBA star LeBron James is part of a larger pattern of racist behavior.

    Menendez wrote in a tweet Monday that Trump wouldn’t have questioned James’ intelligence or charity work if he were white. Trump…

  • [NYDN] Teen pleads guilty of trying to fight for the Islamic State
    (Wednesday, August 08, 2018 8:10:00 PM)

    COLUMBIA, S.C. — A South Carolina teenager pleaded guilty Wednesday to allegations that he tried to fight for the Islamic State group.

    Zakaryia Abdin pleaded guilty during a hearing in Charleston to a charge of attempting to provide material support to a terrorist organization, according to federal…

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks to host Bucks in first game of NBA Christmas Day schedule
    (Wednesday, August 08, 2018 8:01:58 PM)

    The Knicks will again play on Christmas Day, hosting Giannis Antetokounmpo and the Milwaukee Bucks at Madison Square Garden at noon as the start of a five-game nationally-televised schedule, the NBA announced on Wednesday afternoon.

  • 84 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2018.08.09)

    1. Hubert

      I’d keep Noah but they do have too many guys signed. A possible upside is they see our future so far in the future waiving him now doesn’t matter?

      Our future *is* so far in the future, but if they grasped that they’d just buy him out and not use the stretch. The use of the stretch is a clear indication that they think our future is next summer. And hey, when your big 3 are a pair of 19 year olds and an inefficient volume scorer who can’t rebound and is anemic, who wouldn’t want to go all in, amirite?

    2. Z-man

      $7 mill in wasted cap space sucks, but not being able to actively participate in FA when the players you want are willing to sign here and are available also sucks.

      I know that the preferred solution to the current suckitude is all-out tanking for the next 3 years. But if that solution is not on the table, then what?

      Even if you prefer the tanking route, is it possible that waiving and stretching Noah actually helps the tank by opening up cap space to rent out for assets? (Not that this has any chance of happening, just pointing out that the two strategies are not necessarily mutually exclusive.)

      All I know is that I am psyched about seeing Knox and Robinson (and to a lesser degree the other young players) play. I have no preconceived notions about whether we will win 15 or 35 games, who we will draft next year, when and how ready KP will come back, etc.

      August sucks.

    3. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, Knox & Robinson are going to lead us to the promised land

      I don’t think they should stretch Noah UNTIL they have a free agent target that wants to sign here and they need the cap space to get the deal done. Doing it before then has very little upside and imo is foolish. I realize part of our strategy is to form good relationships with players and agents so the Knicks become a more attractive destination for elite players in trades and free agency. To do that, sometimes maybe you can’t fully maximize self-interest. But I see no issue with starting Kanter (25 minutes), playing Noah off the bench (10-15 minutes) and slowly easing Robinson forward from around 10 minutes to the backup role and beyond as he’s ready. That would give Noah the playing time he wants. He can also help mentor Robinson defensively and the clock will keep ticking on his contact. The closer it gets to expiration the easier it will be to move him, stretch him, or buy him out later and cost us less.

    4. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      Strategy, I think they might do that if they valued Noah’s skill set. But he’s not a Pointzz Guy, and I suspect they basically think he us useless.

    5. Hubert

      I know that the preferred solution to the current suckitude is all-out tanking for the next 3 years. But if that solution is not on the table, then what?

      I’m not advocating all-out tanking for three years. I think we should compete for a playoff spot in 2019-2020. But there are two things I don’t think:

      1. I don’t think it’s prudent to sacrifice future cap space in order to compete for a playoff spot in 2019-20.

      2. I don’t think we need to be absolutely determined to spend all available cap space on the best players who will take our money in the summer of 2019. There’s no guarantee that we’ll do that, but stretching Noah is an extremely strong indicator that we likely will.

      And let’s be real, we’ve never seen the Knicks not do this. We treat cap space like it will blow up if you don’t use it to give out long-term deals the first moment it becomes available.

    6. Z-man

      But if Kyrie is your guy, you need to have the cap space to sign him. All indications are that the Knicks are (foolishly) in “Kyrie or bust” mode. They are envisioning a big 3 of Kyrie/KP/either Butler or Knox, depending on what happens this year.

      Tell me, can the Knicks waive Noah 9/1 but then hold off on the decision on whether to stretch or not? Or do they have to declare at the time of the waiving?

    7. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, Knox & Robinson are going to lead us to the promised land

      Unless I don’t understand the rules, the Knicks could just as easily wait to see if Kyrie actually wants to come here (and that his knees are in good shape) before stretching Noah. I’m straining to see the upside of doing it NOW as opposed to waiting and doing it when/if we actually need the cap space. Keeping him buys some time to see how things play out and could actually save us money depending on how things go. There’s zero downside unless you are worried about Noah causing trouble or that in his 50-60 games at 15 minutes per night he might actually win us 1-2 extra games more than Kornet.

    8. GianaDani

      Noah is a freak of an athlete. great post and team defender and among the best rebounders in the league. 2x All-Star, defensive player of the year and all NBA first team. He had a VORP and a BPM of over 6 one year.

      The NBA game has changed in the middle of his career. He went from all NBA first team and the reason why team was winning 60 games to you can’t be on the team anymore; It must be really frustrating for him; needs to fins one coach who still values the skills he has more the skills he doesn’t. Good luck with that.

      While Rodman could have proven to be an exception, Charles Oakley, Kevin Willis and all other Junkyard dogs of that era, can no longer play in this league.

    9. Count de Pennies

      Just thinking ahead…

      What’s the earliest date upon which the Knicks will be able to waive/stretch Kyrie after he’s signed to a max deal and his knees crumble into dust?

    10. Z-man

      …Charles Oakley, Kevin Willis and all other Junkyard dogs of that era, can no longer play in this league.

      omg

    11. Z-man

      What’s the earliest date upon which the Knicks will be able to waive/stretch Kyrie after he’s signed to a max deal and his knees crumble into dust?

      I believe it’s 9/1/2023…or two months after he hoists the O’Brien trophy at MSG after doing a Willis Reed on one leg in game 7.

    12. Hubert

      the Knicks could just as easily wait to see if Kyrie actually wants to come here (and that his knees are in good shape) before stretching Noah. I’m straining to see the upside of doing it NOW as opposed to waiting and doing it when/if we actually need the cap space.

      This is my point. Doing it now doesn’t mean they’re after Kyrie. Doing it now means they’re determined to spend money next summer and it will go to whoever takes it. This is how we ended up with Tim Hardaway. Had the cap space, had to use it. We’ll probably end up signing Klay Thompson for $28mm a year while we still have Timmy and Lee and are talking about playing Frank at the 2.

      And yes, I am definitely more optimistic about race relations and bipartisan harmony on capitol hill than the knicks.

    13. Donnie Walsh

      The only difference between waiving him on 9/1/2018 and waiving him on 6/30/2019 is that it frees him from the roster (to play for another team, and to allow somebody else to play for the Knicks).

    14. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, Knox & Robinson are going to lead us to the promised land

      The only difference between waiving him on 9/1/2018 and waiving him on 6/30/2019 is that it frees him from the roster (to play for another team, and to allow somebody else to play for the Knicks).

      The cost of a buyout is lower and it will be easier to trade him (although still difficult). Also, suppose they don’t have any free agent in mind that is willing to come here. They could stretch him later or just keep him until the contract expires.

    15. thenoblefacehumper

      My initial thought was this is an attempt to keep Noah’s agent happy and that’s probably true. The problem I have is we’ve heard this excuse for a lot of the Knicks’ stupidity and I don’t see any other teams around the league constantly shooting themselves in the foot for this purpose.

      If we need a roster spot, Mudiay, Thomas, and Baker all obviously make more sense to cut.

    16. DRed

      Noah used to be able to give you a little something on offense. He was a really good passer, and he could shoot free throws. In his prime he was between above average to just slightly below league average TS%. Since 2014, when his FT% started to nosedive he’s been close to useless on offense. We probably underrated his defense two years ago, because we hoped he’d be really good, but being a decent defender doesn’t cut it if you’re as bad as Joakim is on offense. Depending on his health, I think there’s a chance he could play 12 minutes a night as a guy who gets rebounds and sets screens and doesn’t kill the team, and I think it’s worth seeing if that’s the case, because I don’t see the real benefit to waiving him on September 1 instead of January 1st or whenever if he can’t play at all.

    17. english_knick

      Making zero cost or very low cost moves to build a nice-guy reputation with agents and players is not a bad idea. I’d pit waiving Troy in this category, just. Killing $7m in space for multiple years – when we just saw very good players picked up for less – is not zero or low cost.

      As Hubert and others have said, Keeping him on the roster doesn’t cost us a shot at 2019 free agency. We didn’t amnesty Chauncey until Tyson committed to sign. This is the same – Noah has no say in being waived so you enter FA negotiations with a small list of players you think it’s worth stretching Noah for. You negotiate as if you have that space and if someone commits to taking it you do the stretch. Simple.

      If the logic in waiving him isn’t to make clear right now to players and agents that our chequebook is open next summer, it can only be to avoid a locker room distraction or to create a roster spot. Of the former, bluntly, be better people managers. That’s not worth $7m per. If the latter, as @17 says, there are way more obvious/lower cost candidates.

    18. Hubert

      What’s the earliest date upon which the Knicks will be able to waive/stretch Kyrie after he’s signed to a max deal and his knees crumble into dust?

      Exactly.

    19. Hubert

      My initial thought was this is an attempt to keep Noah’s agent happy

      If the 4 year $76mm deal we gave his bum client didn’t already make him happy…

      Every agent in the NBA should already be overjoyed with the Knicks. Noah’s, Baker’s, Hardaway’s, Lance’s, Lee’s, Afflalo’s, Amar’e’s, Melo’s,. How much happier do we need to make these guys?

    20. Ben R

      I personally am glad to see Noah gone. If that costs 7 million in 2020 and 2021 that’s fine. I would have preferred no stretch but I understand the logic. I think keeping him on the roster for the next 12 months just to waive and stretch him next June would have been a terrible move. For one he might have stolen minutes from Robinson, or he might have been a total malcontent, and it’s not fair to Noah who probably wants a chance to actually play before his career is completely over.

      From a free agency point of view if we sign free agents next summer we lose Noah’s 7 million in cap space, if we waited till 2020 we’d lose the 10 million over the cap hold that KP’s contract will be. So in reality as long as we can move Lee we’ll have the same amount of room next summer if we stretch Noah as summer after next if we don’t so why not stretch Noah and do it next summer.

    21. Oaktrees

      I think maybe the point of doing it early is to just get rid of him and cut ties. Fizz might think he’d be a total asshole in the locker room and poison the kids’ heads. And I can kind of see that. I don’t think you can tell him to just stay home, wouldn’t the Union not be into that?

    22. JK47

      The NBA game has changed in the middle of his career. He went from all NBA first team and the reason why team was winning 60 games to you can’t be on the team anymore; It must be really frustrating for him; needs to fins one coach who still values the skills he has more the skills he doesn’t.

      Noah is clearly FAR from the athlete he was when he was at his best. He is noticeably slower and stiffer. Watch footage of him in his DPOY season then watch footage of him as a Knick– the difference is stark. He used to be able to coverage a tremendous amount of ground for a big man, and now he cannot do that at all. He is now immobile and as a result he is nowhere near the impact player on the defensive end he was in his glory days, which means he is a useless player.

      I mean I guess he can still rebound and guard guys in the post, but the thing that made him special left his body a while ago.

    23. Bruno Almeida

      @26

      After we spent 3 days discussing, among other things, meritocracy, this is just hilarious.

    24. geo

      man i wish now i hadn’t clicked (slow day at work)…the image of that creepy mug and smile is stuck in my head now…yuch…

    25. Hubert

      Anuche Browne Sanders was a fairly serious scandal. I guess Dolan is lucky it happened in the pre-me too era.

    26. swiftandabundant

      I get that stretching Noah seems dumb but its telling to me that even after Horns was fired that Noah is still persona non grata to this organization. If it was all just Horns being a bad coach then I feel like it would be easy to give him one more chance. But Noah missed over half of his first season, was suspended for PEDS and missed 20 games to start last year and then got into a fight with Horns. I think even though Perry and Mills fired Horns they didn’t think he was a bad person or an awful coach. Just not right for what this team is trying to do. Horns seemed relatively well liked by his players (if not well respected).

      So I think while this might be with an eye for next summer and free agency, this is also as big of a culture move as far as anything else. You either have him on the team and play him and he takes minutes away from the youngsters or he sits on the bench and doesn’t play and that could recreate the same situation that led to him fighting Horns last year. Perry might see stretching him as the cost of getting rid of this mistake.

      It would be one thing if Noah was still a beast on defense. But he’s not. So now he’s a negative. Veteran leadership can only go so far and we still have Lance and Lee for that.

    27. swiftandabundant

      Question. If you had to choose one would you rather trade away an asset or two to get rid of Noah (lets say starting at 2 second rounders) or would you rather stretch him? You have to choose one of these options.

    28. GianaDani

      @32, I’d happily give a up a 2021 lottery protected first round pick to anyone who will just absorb Noah & Lee.

    29. GianaDani

      btw, stretching Noah forces Ainge to a sign and trade Kyrie to us or risk losing him for nothing. Hope Perry is a little smarter than Billy King.

    30. Grocer

      I’d give up one second rounder to swap Noah for an expiring or two. I’d rather just put him on the inactive list if he won’t take a buyout. Correct me if I’m wrong: we can have more than 15 guys signed (ignoring the two-way contracts), we just can’t have more than 15 on the active roster.

      If we don’t stretch him or buy him out there’s no reason to give Noah minutes. It’s dumber than giving Lance minutes, at least Lance is more professional.

    31. swiftandabundant

      @ 35 – you cheated! Brought up a scenario other than the two I proposed!

      I don’t think the player’s union would be down with him being inactive if he isn’t actually hurt.

    32. swiftandabundant

      But if we don’t give him minutes, he could end up being bad energy in the locker room. Development of our youth is so important and if we have an over the hill washed up former star demanding minutes he doesn’t deserve and being a sourpuss when he doesn’t get what he wants, that could create a toxic environment. He’s all ready done it once last year.

      This is the dilemna the Knicks are facing.

    33. dtrickey

      I don’t think the player’s union would be down with him being inactive if he isn’t actually hurt.

      Healthy players can be on the inactive list. I don’t think the NBAPA would have much to say about that. What they would likely have a problem with is if we exiled Noah and kept him on the roster, rather than trading/waiving him.

    34. swiftandabundant

      What’s the difference btwn having him on the inactive list and exiling him? Like is there actually a difference bc it seems like semantics and I don’t think it would be a good look to just keep him inactive for an entire season. Is that really reasonable? How would that not create a super awkward and tense situation for everyone?

    35. Grocer

      Exile is basically putting him on the inactive list. It’s not like he has to attend games or practices. If we can’t trade him and he won’t take a buyout..

      I think it very unlikely they do this, but if we don’t get rid of him we don’t have to keep him around the team and he doesn’t need to take up a roster spot.

    36. swiftandabundant

      Yeah I don’t think they can really exile him the whole season when he isn’t hurt and he wants to play. I mean they CAN but I think the blow back from the players union would be too big of a risk for us.

    37. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, Knox & Robinson are going to lead us to the promised land

      Noah definitely wants to play, but he was being the good soldier last year until Hornacek told him to get dressed and ready to play on a night we had a few players injured. Then he barely played him and pulled him quickly. I don’t know exactly what happened the next day. Even without knowing I’m not going to excuse it. But let’s be serious here. We are talking about a guy that received MVP votes and was a DPOY on an excellent team just a few years back. He was playing behind Hernangomez, O’Quinn, and Kanter. That’s not exactly murderers row. Sure, his game had declined. But part of the reason he was playing poorly the prior 2 years was that he was constantly injured, missed training camp etc..

      In his mind Hornacek was wildly out of line and disrespectful. Again, I’m not making excuses for whatever it is he said and did the following day, but I think unless Fizdale is a total moron like Hornacek was in that instance, the chances of Noah being a problem next year are 0%.

      I think he would be fine with 10-15 minutes a night behind Kanter and no back to backs (still giving Robinson plenty of time to ease his way in). Then when Robinson is ready for a bigger role Noah would move back to 3rd and only play if there are injuries. If it turns out he can still play a bit when healthy, he might be movable as an expiring next year. I don’t see this as any kind of problem except in the minds of the Knicks front office. It’s a bad move to stretch him. The plan from day 1 of his signing was for him to start for a couple of years and then take a leadership and mentoring role as a backup in years 3-4. He was brought here to be a POSITIVE influence because he always has been.

    38. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      I’d give up one second rounder to swap Noah for an expiring or two. I’d rather just put him on the inactive list if he won’t take a buyout. Correct me if I’m wrong: we can have more than 15 guys signed (ignoring the two-way contracts), we just can’t have more than 15 on the active roster.

      I think you are wrong. Anyone on the inactive list is part of your fifteen man roster. And I don’t think a second rounder would do it. Denver had to give up a second round pick to move off of Chandler’s contract and Chandler is a useful player Philadelphia is expected to play. Noah would need at least a first rounder to move.

    39. swiftandabundant

      @ 42 – yeah except your murderer’s row of centers were all better than Noah last year or even the season before (before he got hurt and missed half the year). Noah can sort of defend the post and rebound now. That is it. He is washed up. Kanter and OQuinn are way better than him not to mention KP also played the C position and we had Willy too.

      Noah is done. He’s been done for several years now. And even if he had anything left in the tank, he isn’t worth playing over any of our younger players.

      Also, how do you know he was “being a good soldier.” For all we know he might have been complaining for weeks leading up to the incident. Again, I bring up the point that even after Horns got fired, Perry and Mills seem to have no interest in trying to reintegrate him into the team. To me that is very telling.

    40. thenoblefacehumper

      I guess I just don’t see how Noah could cause enough of a problem in the locker room to justify making an objectively stupid basketball move to get rid of him. I mean if he’s really unhappy, he’ll probably just accept the mutually beneficial exile agreement again.

      Anyone defending the decision to stretch him should ask themselves if they’re okay with Joakim Noah being on our payroll for six (!) seasons.

    41. Ben R

      Having Noah on the books for 6.5 million in 20-21 and 21-22 is bad but it’s not the end of the world. I would prefer if they just cut him and took the salary hit this year and next but I understand wanting the flexibility for next summer. I think keeping him is not an option at this point, the situation is toxic and he needs to be gone. If he needs to be gone then the options are moving him with an asset, stretch him after September 1st or waive him and let his contract come off in 2020. If those are the options stretching him is probably the best option because we don’t want to remove the option of making a move next summer and I believe we have to stretch him when we waive him, we can’t waive him now and stretch him later.

    42. thenoblefacehumper

      Question. If you had to choose one would you rather trade away an asset or two to get rid of Noah (lets say starting at 2 second rounders) or would you rather stretch him? You have to choose one of these options.

      I’d rather stretch him. My question though, is why are we making this choice right now? If Durant, Irving, and Butler all sign max extensions to stay put (or sign with anyone who isn’t the Knicks), then what the hell are we doing with this Noah money?

      If they want to come to the Knicks (personally I’d avoid Irving but I digress), great! We can stretch Noah right then and there or quickly examine the options for dumping his expiring deal.

    43. Jack Bauer

      Noah is completely Done as a player.
      Until of course the Knicks stretch his contract, he signs with the Lakers, and plays like an all star.

      Wait for it…

    44. dtrickey

      To clarify, my version of him being exiled is the team asking him to stay away completely. I guess in a sense just putting him on the inactive list would be exile, but even inactive players are at least with the team and on the bench (albeit in street clothes). I think the NBAPA would have an issue with the Knicks holding on to him and not having him be a part of the team in some way (heck even if he just gets wheeled out as a warm body for practice, that is something).

      Either way, he is probably cooked as a player. If there is someone to boost his value so we wouldn’t have to give away a 1st, that would be ideal, but there are 0 teams in the market for Noah.

    45. JK47

      The last time Joakim Noah was a good player was in 2014. Iggy Azalea was topping the charts and people were doing the Ice Bucket Challenge. It was a while ago.

    46. GoNyGoNyGo

      I don’t see a role for Noah on a good team. He has made mistake after mistake these past two years. All the same, it behooves the Knicks to let him showcase his talents . If there’s the minute chance he plays well and draws interest it’s a win. They have to let play.

    47. Donnie Walsh

      I saw BlacKKKlansman yesterday. It made me think of the Knicks because a) the words Spike Lee always make me think of the ‘94 ECF, and b) its themes fit pretty well with the conversations we’ve been having here the past few days. (I even started re-casting the roles in the movie with the usernames here (it’s kind of a fun exercise, it turns out—try it!))

    48. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      Noah is completely Done as a player.
      Until of course the Knicks stretch his contract, he signs with the Lakers, and plays like an all star.

      How would that be bad for us? Do you WANT him playing well for us and helping us win an extra 2 or 3 games?

      There is no positive outcome with Noah. We were screwed the moment he signed a four year deal. Now you have a player who, if healthy, might help us win games we need to lose. And those wins will come at the expense of playing time for the young guys we need to develop. But more likely, he is cooked, and complains about playing time and creates a negative situation in the locker room. And maybe still takes away minutes from young players.

      Either way, a trade is EXTREMELY unlikely even if he plays well. At least, that is, a trade where we don’t give up assets to dump him.

      If the league was cool with him not playing, we could park him in Nowheresville and stretch him next year, but he would probably have his agent file a grievance – otherwise it looks like he doesn’t want to play, and he wouldn’t get the last chance from some team he probably craves.

    49. Grocer

      I think you are wrong. Anyone on the inactive list is part of your fifteen man roster.

      It’s entirely possible, I can’t find any info on it either way. Bad at the internet? Maybe!

      Someone please explain why the NBAPA would give a shit if we’re not violating any terms. Players don’t get to file grievances over lack of playing time.

      Either way there’s no benefit to the Knicks of ever having Noah on the floor. I think stretching him is a bad idea, but if we keep him around he should only get minutes due to injuries or if everybody else is wiped. I’d rather give Kornet those minutes.

    50. dtrickey

      Someone please explain why the NBAPA would give a shit if we’re not violating any terms. Players don’t get to file grievances over lack of playing time.

      They probably don’t give a shit about playing time. What they may give a shit about is a healthy player being told to stay away from the team for no real reason other than that the team doesn’t want to waive them just yet.

    51. Grocer

      But that’s not the reason the team will give. “He’s disruptive” is a solid enough argument to pass muster legally. Anyway, is there a clause in the CBA exiling him would violate? I’m assuming not, but I could be wrong. The union can mostly only act within the confines of the CBA. Would other players really care? Or would they just shake their heads and say ‘it’s a shame.’

      I’m not even sure how shitty it would be to him. He’d be behind Kanter, Kornet, and Robinson in the lineup, plus whoever jumps in as C in small ball lineups. It’d be the same situation that led to the altercation last season. If he wants to play he should take the buyout. The Knicks have no reason to play him.

    52. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      Grocer,
      I looked it up, see the link below. An inactive player is simply a player on the full roster who doesn’t dress for a game. “Inactive” replaces what used to be “injured reserve”. There are some exceptions, but they are minor and don’t apply in this case.

      http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q79

    53. Grocer

      Thanks! So there’s no way to keep him but not have him take up a roster spot. Oh well. Would have been nice.

    54. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, Knox & Robinson are going to lead us to the promised land

      @ 42 – yeah except your murderer’s row of centers were all better than Noah last year or even the season before (before he got hurt and missed half the year). .

      How would we know?

      At various times he missed camp, was injured, was suspended for 20 games, told to leave, and then never played last year. As a Knick, he’s literally probably had 10 games where he was healthy, in game shape, and given minutes. He was pretty good in those 10 games.

      All the issues he’s had made the signing a predictable debacle, but that’s not what we are discussing.

      There’s literally no downside to keeping this guy around unless you are worried he’s going to take minutes from Kornet. Kornet is not even a NBA player. Robinson is going to get eased in regardless of whether Noah is here or not. Robinson has no idea how to play basketball yet. They aren’t going to throw him out there for 20-25 minutes a night behind Kanter right away.

    55. Bo Nateman

      Unless Noah has done some destructive things towards the team and it is clear he will continue to act destructively, is there any reason to stretch him before the start of the season, other than doing him a solid?

    56. swiftandabundant

      You just listed all the reasons why Kanter, etc…were better than Noah last year.

      “there’s literally no downside to keeping this guy around”

      Except for the numerous reasons multiple posters have listed out multiple times.

    57. swiftandabundant

      Again. Horns got fired and yet Noah is still persona non grata to Mills and Perry. That should tell you something that it wasn’t just Horns being a shitty coach last year.

      Look, Noah was an amazing player in his prime. And its sad to see this and it sucks we have to pay him so much money for so little production. But it is what it is at this point. There are bad options and worse options. Stretching him to open up cap space next summer, a roster spot now and free up minutes for young players is the best of the bad options available to us.

      And yes, he’ll probably go to the Lakers and look decent and everyone will LOL Knicks but fuck em. We’re all about Zinger, Knox, Frank and the other young players being developed properly. For veteran leadership we still have Lance and Lee, who will still both probably play enough minutes to keep them happy until they’re traded or they’re contracts end.

    58. Early Bird

      I think this move is just getting rid of Noah. It sounds like the situation devolved and they just don’t want him around the club house.

      Correct me if I’m wrong, but next year is one of the only years we will have left over cap space anyway. We have to sign KP to a big contract after that so we’ll be maxed out for awhile.

    59. thenoblefacehumper

      Look, Noah was an amazing player in his prime. And its sad to see this and it sucks we have to pay him so much money for so little production. But it is what it is at this point. There are bad options and worse options. Stretching him to open up cap space next summer, a roster spot now and free up minutes for young players is the best of the bad options available to us.

      No, stretching him on September 1st is not the best option. The opportunity to stretch him will literally never go away. There is absolutely no downside to telling him to come in and compete for minutes. The beauty of that is if it all somehow devolves into an untenable shit show, then you can stretch him! Who knows? Maybe it works out okay and you gain the opportunity to take the wait-and-see approach next offseason.

      If it’s about the roster spot that’s even stupider. Mudiay and Baker both make way more sense to cut if that’s the issue (I’m assuming LT’s 2019-2020 salary becomes fully guaranteed if he’s cut, otherwise he’d be in that group too).

    60. swiftandabundant

      You keep saying “there’s literally no downside” when people keep saying what the downsides are.

      They don’t want to play him. That’s the whole point. Even if he gets some minutes, he’s probably only going to be really happy if he’s playing every game and getting at least 15 to 20 a game. He probably thinks he should be starting. So if he’s on the team, in practice, and he’s not getting enough minutes to keep him happy…there is your downside.

      And bringing up Baker and Mudiay is really not fair at all. Those guys are young players. They most likely will not be on the team long term but neither of them are signed past this year and both could, IN THEORY, improve enough to be rotation players. Plus, neither of them are veterans who are going to bitch if they don’t get enough minutes.

      And LT is only guaranteed one million of his salary next year. He’s a non issue at this point.

      It would be great to get rid of Lee but Lee is actually still a decent player and has never had any issues with coaches. So keeping him around most likely won’t be disruptive to the team.

      Let me ask you this. If you were hired to be the manager of a restaurant and you found out that one of your employees was getting paid 3 times as much as everyone else and that he got into a fight with the last manager bc he didn’t get the section that I liked to wait tables on, would you want to keep that guy around?

    61. JK47

      Cutting Noah signals to me that this team is really looking into the QUICK HURRY UP GET SOME CAP SPACE SO WE CAN SIGN A BIG FREE AGENT strategy. I’m against this. The target seems to be Kyrie Irving, who is an injury risk who believes the earth is flat.

      Is there anybody here who believes that Kyrie Irving, New York Knick, will be anything other than an injury-riddled albatross? He misses 20-30 games every year, and that is in his prime. Add another few years of wear and tear on his body and it’s pretty much a rock solid guarantee that you will have $40M of salary watching the game from the bench in an expensive suit by year three of this contract.

      I really can’t believe that people are on board with this idea. Just let Noah’s stupid contract sit on the books, and let it come off, and if he pisses in the Gatorade or something send him home. The lack of patience with every single fucking thing surrounding this franchise is just unbelievable. WIN NOW! I KNOW WE’RE A 20-WIN TEAM BUT WE GOTTA WIN NOW! WE’LL NEVER HAVE ANOTHER CHANCE TO BUY INTO THE DECLINE PHASE OF A PERENNIALLY INJURED PLAYER, GOTTA STRIKE WHILE THIS IRON IS HOT!

    62. thenoblefacehumper

      They don’t want to play him. That’s the whole point. Even if he gets some minutes, he’s probably only going to be really happy if he’s playing every game and getting at least 15 to 20 a game. He probably thinks he should be starting. So if he’s on the team, in practice, and he’s not getting enough minutes to keep him happy…there is your downside.

      You didn’t outline any actual downside. You just described a situation in which Noah shows up and doesn’t get minutes. What’s the downside? If he’s awfully unhappy I’m sure he’d gladly accept the deal they worked out last season in which he doesn’t show up and still gets paid.

      And bringing up Baker and Mudiay is really not fair at all. Those guys are young players. They most likely will not be on the team long term but neither of them are signed past this year and both could, IN THEORY, improve enough to be rotation players.

      Yes, neither of them are signed after this year, meaning cutting one of them is totally inconsequential. This puts them in contrast to Noah who stays on our books for 3 seasons if he’s cut. If either of them are rotation players on the future Knicks, the future Knicks probably suck ass.

    63. swiftandabundant

      Its not just about cap space, though. If it was they could simply wait until next summer when they think they have a possible free agent target and then cut and stretch him then. I know many people do not want to trust Mills and Perry quite yet but do we really think they have no idea that they could wait until next summer to stretch him and it would have the same cap implications?

      This is about moving on from Noah and not having the distraction both in the locker room and in the media.

    64. swiftandabundant

      @ 72 – the downside is that he’s a distraction. The downside is that he will be unhappy and they know this because he was unhappy last year and he ended up punching the head coach. The downside is that there’s probably a D-League player they could sign for next to nothing that will be more productive than Noah.

      There. I spelled it out for you. We talk about needing evidence to prove your point on this site. The evidence that he will be bad for the locker room is based on his own actions from last year.

    65. swiftandabundant

      Kyrie’s belief that the earth is flat has no impact on his ability to play basketball.

      And if you believe in any sort of organized religion whatsoever, then you have no right to make fun of someone for believing the earth is flat. I mean, really…jesus came back from the dead and is the son of god and could heal people with his magical healing hands is an ok thing to believe in but believing the earth is flat makes someone crazy?

      Both are equally crazy. If you believe in christianity, islam, horoscopes, the idea that “everything happens for a reason”, etc…then you are just as deluded as somoene who believes the earth is flat. At least the flat earther is basing their belief on their own two eyes and what they see and experience. They’ve never been to space so how do they know that the earth is round?

    66. JK47

      And if you believe in any sort of organized religion whatsoever, then you have no right to make fun of someone for believing the earth is flat.

      Militant atheist here, so no problem

    67. JK47

      I don’t believe Kyrie’s “flat earthier” BS makes him crazy. I believe that it makes him a fucking moron. He’s very good at basketball despite being a drooling idiot but who knows, maybe the fact that he’s a complete idiot might prove to be a negative in other unforeseen ways.

      Dude seems like a prime Vaseline eating candidate to me.

    68. swiftandabundant

      I’m actually an agnostic but it just annoys me when people bring up the flat earth thing as a reason not to sign Kyrie. Most people hold some sort of stupid belief of some sort that other people would find ridiculous. There are plenty of reasons to be against signing Kyrie other than his beliefs off the basketball court.

    69. Owen

      Flatearthers are people too.

      Signing Kyrie is going to work out so badly. It’s not just KTSD talking either.

      It’s a positive that our free agent target du jour actually posted a WS/48 over .200 last year. But he seems a very volatile piece to build around given his injury track record, his age, and his somewhat checkered history of getting along with teammates.

      It’s far from the worst idea we have ever had but trying a patient rebuild seems much the better option.

    70. thenoblefacehumper

      the downside is that he’s a distraction. The downside is that he will be unhappy and they know this because he was unhappy last year and he ended up punching the head coach. The downside is that there’s probably a D-League player they could sign for next to nothing that will be more productive than Noah.

      A distraction from what, exactly? This team is going to win like 24 games.

      There is also probably a D-League player they could sign who will be more productive than Mudiay, Baker, and Kornet (and they can replace Hicks’ 2-way slot). The difference is none of these players come with long-term ramifications when they’re cut.

    71. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, Knox & Robinson are going to lead us to the promised land

      @ 72 – the downside is that he’s a distraction. The downside is that he will be unhappy and they know this because he was unhappy last year and he ended up punching the head coach. The downside is that there’s probably a D-League player they could sign for next to nothing that will be more productive than Noah.

      I am not excusing it, but whatever happened occurred because the coach embarrassed and disrespected him. He and Willy were frustrated about playing time. You simply DO NOT tell a a former DPOY and MVP vote getting veteran who’s dying to play to get dressed and be ready and then pull him him out after just a few minutes in garbage time. It’s just a stupid thing to do unless you are trying to provoke him. Unlike, Willy, he was not in a position to ask for a trade. And second, he was probably still the best or 2nd best C we had at the time when healthy and in shape. They just refused to play him.

      Half the people that are in favor of buying him out are afraid he might win us a few extra games which will be bad for the tank (he won’t in limited games and minutes) and the other half think he’s totally washed up and wasting a roster spot (which would make him good for the tank if it actually did matter). So which is it?

      The only somewhat reasonable view is that he’d take minutes away from Robinson. IMO, he won’t. I do not believe they are going to throw Robinson to the wolves for 20-25 minutes a night right from the start unless he makes dramatic progress in his knowledge of the game and strength between now and the start of the season. He’ll take minutes away from Kornet.

      The downsides of the stretch are very obvious.

    72. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, Knox & Robinson are going to lead us to the promised land

      The last thing we need here is a debate about religion after the debate about politics. This is coming from an agnostic.

    73. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, Knox & Robinson are going to lead us to the promised land

      I don’t think the fact that Kyrie is not the sharpest knife in the draw is a good thing, but I don’t see it as an eliminating factor when he’s already demonstrated he is one of the best scorers in the league on a flat or round earth. Way more important are his legs.

    74. Early Bird

      I don’t think Kyrie is the answer, but could still give us a shot at being the best team in the east, health being a major concern.

      Kyrie-Hardaway-Knox?-KP-Robinson could be pretty formidable.

      If Frank can knock down 3’s you swap him and Hardaway for one of the best defenses in the league.

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