Knicks Morning News (2019.07.05)

Interesting section on two players in a 538 Bulls piece yesterday that nicely sums up some of our ‘concerns’ about our FO approach:

Kornet should see far less playing time than Satoransky and Young, but he stands a good chance of being productive in his minutes as a backup center. If the Bulls are seeking to pivot into more of a 3-point shooting team (they ranked just 28th in 3-point attempt rate last season) the 7-foot-1 Texas native will help them do that. He launched almost nine threes per 36 minutes last year, the NBA’s second-highest rate among 7-footers who played at least 500 minutes, while hitting 36 percent of them.

Chicago learned the hard way just how productive Kornet can be — the best games of his career came against the Bulls last year. While the exact numbers on Kornet’s two-year deal haven’t been reported yet, Chicago figures to get fantastic value here on this contract, too. Our model projects him to give the Bulls about $23 million worth of production over the next two seasons.

And

Interestingly enough, Chicago’s flurry of value signings comes as ex-Bulls forward Bobby Portis joins the Knicks on a two-year, $31 million deal that, according to our site’s model, rates as one of the biggest free-agent overpays of the summer. (The projections really hate Portis’s defense.)

Portis plays near league worst pf defense according to rpm.

I feeling pretty good about Payton as a decent plan B point guard. At the end of the day, anyone that can put up 5 consecutive triple-doubles at age has to be pretty good. The shooting is spotty and the defense is questionable, but if it weren’t, he wouldn’t have been available at that price. It’s probably as good of a move as Portis was a bad move.

And I am super curious to see how many minutes FRANK will be getting…

I think the odds are reasonably high that Frank never plays for the Knicks again. Nothing they did in the offseason bodes well for him.

We didn’t sign any RFA’s though. Portis had been renounced pretty sure

My info is that he was given the QO by the Wiz and was a RFA, then the Knicks made an offer, and then the Wiz rescinded their QO, making him a UFA; so we’re sort of both right.

I don’t know if any of you listened to the JJ Redick podcast with Andre Iguodala but it was excellent if you like some inside baseball stuff without it being salacious. A lot of interesting life situational stuff…..

https://art19.com/shows/the-jj-redick-podcast/episodes/ef1f16e4-4ccf-4f7f-b29e-8d800e9df09d

@12 agreed, but it was also in an abject tank year, which obviously will not be the case going forward. I hope it will be a moot point this year because he will almost certainly play better, but if he doesn’t, I seriously doubt that the leash will be as long.

Is Tobias Harris miscast as a small forward? He’s going to have to play there for the Sixers and I just wonder if that’s a good fit for him or not. I am trying to figure out if Philly’s roster changes are going to work out.

been thinking about this, too. my tentative take is that harris’ position isn’t that important and that harris in general isn’t that important. i think he’s a minus defender against most 3 and 4s (as defined today) and on offense he most only becomes a major mismatch advantage at the 4 if you pair him with a crazy small ball 5 like Doc sometimes did with Gallo or the other team is unusually big/slow. he’ll be a useful spacer and shot creator (very useful w/simmons on the court) and meh-but-not-JJ defender either way. as a semi-relevant note, here’s a good example of the sample size theatre problem. last year someone noticed that SGA/Bradley/Tobias/Gallo/Gortat was the best lineup in the NBA.

https://clipperholics.com/2018/12/05/la-clippers-best-lineup-nba-23-games/

from day that article was written until the harris trade that lineup was basically the worst in the NBA, and finished at -7.6 PPP in 349 mins. when you throw in a weird, line-blurring ben simmons on the floor, who knows what position to even call harris.

i am a little more interested in what al and embiid look like together. horford has played well over 1000 minutes w a true big w less versatility than embiid (mainly baynes) over the last 2 years and those lineups have been ferociously effective. we haven’t seen a ton of embiid with a true 4/5 like al, but they have stayed effective on offense with simmons, who sometimes plays like more of a true 4/5 on O than al does.

they are going to be able to field some ridiculous defensive lineups this year if Al doesn’t fall off the aging cliff. simmons/embiid/richardson/horford is truly nuts and at key moments can even add someone like thybulle/scott/zhaire smith.

Michael Porter out for Denver…. knee injury 🙁

Josh Jackson’s rapid demise should be flashing red sign for Perry’s approach to Kevin Knox. The two had remarkably similar rookie seasons.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Josh+Jackson&player_id1_select=Josh+Jackson&player_id1=jacksjo02&y1=2018&player_id2_hint=Kevin+Knox&player_id2_select=Kevin+Knox&y2=2019&player_id2=knoxke01&idx=players

Jackson was the #4 pick in the draft, yet after two seasons he was so useless that Phoenix had to pay Memphis to take on his contract. A year earlier, I’m sure Jackson still would have been worth a 1RP in trade.

We should be trying to move Knox as soon as humanly possible. He still has some sheen as a “raw” lottery pick with “potential.” We can get something for him. A year from now, he’ll be just another overpaid bum.

Bob,

Eye test/small sample size alert: “clank the next 9? (=36%). Just sayin’.

Not really…. he shot 44.9% in the g-league over 266 attempts and shot 3% worse than Bobby Portis here.

Kornet played 46 games this season:

his first 23 games he shot 37 for 83 =44.578% from three

his last 23 games he shot 33 for 112 = 30.357% from 3

So he went from better than Steph Curry to worse than Frank Ntlinikina from the first half to the last half of the season but that ain’t streaky

@19, the problem with Jackson was not just his rookie season, but then he didn’t get better. There were rumors of work ethic issues too. So I would say it is fair to see if Knox improves.

I would also add that there is a really big difference in their shooting. Knox has a much better percentage on threes.

re: Josh Jackson

Jackson’s list of blemishes is pretty long. It includes flashing gun-like hand gestures at a fan, being arrested for fleeing and resisting arrest (after trying to enter a VIP section of a music festival led to a verbal altercation), smoking marijuana around his infant daughter, skipping out on a scheduled autograph session for Suns fans, vandalizing a female student-athlete’s car after a verbal altercation while in college at Kansas, and fleeing the scene of an accident after backing into a parked car. He has also been labeled as “un-coachable” and gained a reputation for shying away from his defensive calling card to focus (unsuccessfully) on being a scoring threat.

Jackson hasn’t being accused of murder or anything like that, but he has shown a lack of self-awareness, as well as anger-management issues. That’s a scary combination for someone who’s only 22, with more than enough resources and money to get him into more trouble.

1. Most of our signings will probably turn out to be overpays. Tab Gibson is probably fair for a year on a good team, but I’m not sure he makes sense on this team. Other than that, we are hoping for improvement. It’s been the typical Mills/Perry off season and draft. Overpay or draft scorers and talk about defense later when we are ranked near the bottom again. Look to move players, but no one wants them because they are overpaid. At least the mistakes are shorter.

2. Berman has been saying that the Knicks don’t consider Frank a PG. So with the addition of a bunch of SGs, it would appear the handwriting is on the wall for Frank unless the rumors that he’s grown to close to 6′ 7″ are true and he can be moved to SF. I contacted someone that knows him. I was told he has grown a little more and is much stronger.

Honestly though, as someone that’s a fan of his defensive skillset and willingness to move the ball, he deserves better than to be on the Knicks anyway. They don’t value his skills and don’t know how to develop players. I’d like to see him on the Spurs or reunited with KP in Dallas. He’d be perfect in Dallas because they have scorers and don’t need a traditional PG given that Doncic will have the ball. He could focus on defense, makes some plays, and keep working on his 3.

3. Josh Jackson and Kevin Knox have nothing in common that matters to the latter’s development.

4. It’s going to be tough to score inside on Embiid and Horford. When Embiid inevitably gets hurt or is going through load management, Horford can shift to the C and they won’t lose as much as they have been. Still, I don’t think the team is constructed well. Unless Simmons learns how to shoot, they need a ton of shooters on the court. Both Embiid and Horford can make 3s, but if you are the defense, that’s what you want them doing. They are going to be very good, but they are going to struggle at times with spacing and other scoring issues.

Another thing, Why did the Knicks release Joakim when they did? Even if they had this offseason in mind wanting cap space, coiuldn’t they have just waited till after the season to see how things play out with FA’s? And then you can decide to stretch him or not.

Who cares if he wasn’t really on the team, let him get paid to sit at home.

I think the odds are reasonably high that Frank never plays for the Knicks again. Nothing they did in the offseason bodes well for him.

Yup, this is most likely the case. He really has no trade value at this point

They exercised his 3rd year option already, so without trade value, where else is Frank gonna go?

I believe it would be short-sighted for the Knicks to trade Knox unless they are seeing a lack of progress in his workouts and in summer league.

I’m not gonna lie, I’m pretty excited to watch the summer league game. Zion plus Barrett, with Mitch, Knox and Trier all playing, should be very fun.

Canceled the meeting with Kahwi. Of course they did and i understand why they think they have no shot to sign him. Then why schedule it to begin with? Should maybe have kept enough ammo available to sign him. Another indication that they executed Plan B, i.e., overpaying for short term free agent deals, too soon.

Besides, there are always very good reasons to meet with a player of Kawhi’s caliber, if not for the present, to lay groundwork for future dealings by establishing a relationship with him and his agent. This is a “Free Agency” period, meaning you can speak to ANYONE who is a free agent. Have a cordial, well-run basketball / business meeting with Kawhi. Players and agents do talk to each other, no? This is how we can take next steps to rehabilitate our image. Remember, Kawhi may be biding his time for the next 2 years (wherever he lands) until his mega max deal. Why not lay the pipe for those future discussions. Find out what he likes and doesn’t like. But no, the Dolan-mites can’t see the forest for the trees. And instead, they CANCEL A MEETING WITH THE ONE PLAYER IN THE GAME WHO AT THIS TIME HAS THE MOST CRED AND LEVERAGE!

I’m hoping Frank gets at least one more shot with us this year. With the guys we signed he’ll have to earn his minutes at the least.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TimBontemps/status/1147161619450990593?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1147161619450990593&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.postingandtoasting.com%2F2019%2F7%2F5%2F20683265%2Fmitchell-robinson-named-to-select-team-at-team-usa-training-camp

“According to Bleacher Report, the select team is made up of 10 “up-and-coming players who are being considered for Team USA’s final roster in the 2020 Olympics,” which will be held in Japan. The select team is the group that plays against the actual USA Basketball team during practice, so the NBA has a vested interest in ensuring that competition is fierce.”

Frank Ntilikina was available to every team in the NBA, including the smart ones that will inevitably turn him into a two-way dynamo, for a single second round pick. Nobody bit, because the only people who aren’t aware that he sucks ass are here and on r/nyknicks. The Mavs preferred Isaiah Roby to Frank Ntilikina. The Spurs preferred Quinndary Weatherspoon to Frank Ntilikina. The Raptors preferred Dewan Hernandez, who I can tell you with authority was a mediocre ass college player, to Frank Ntilikina.

I dunno guys, seems like a pretty simple Occam’s Razor situation to me.

yo jk frank is swole s shite gona hoop lamf in fifi so eetadik punk btch xo strat

Frank got plenty of minutes when he was healthy, which was not often. He got 21 minutes per game actually. It wasn’t like he was buried behind Mudiay and couldn’t get minutes.

He sure was awful when he did play though!

Mudiay should never have seen a Knicks uniform let alone take any minutes or cost us a pick.

This is true.

It also has nothing to do with Frank sucking.

“Man, Nickelback is really terrible”
“But what about Creed doe”

Unfortunately for him, that’s not the sort of point guard that is popular in the league now, even though there have been successful point guards like that in the past. And that style is particularly not appreciated on the new Knicks.

More accurately, his style of sucking at a prodigious level of suckitude is not appreciated on the new Knicks, or any other team.

But according to strat, at the rate he is growing, he’ll be looking down at Tacko Fall and pushing Zion around by 2026, so better offer him a long-term deal now before we miss out!

@49

We all agree he sucks on offense.

We are talking about trying to develop the offensive side of a kid that’s got the potential to be a very high level versatile defender that can do other things. You either try to develop him or you don’t.

What part of Mudiay (or even Burke) starting and getting minutes instead of Frank and slowing that development was a good idea in a tanking year (all while Knox was being the worst two way player in the NBA getting the green light)?

Frank sat out some games in the doghouse while he was healthy because our pinhead coach liked Mudiay, Burke or some other dolt that can’t defend a lick and will never be a top offensive player. It was idiotic. Our management is idiotic. They have absolutely no idea what they are doing EXCEPT not giving away bad long term contracts. They give out bad short term bad contracts instead.

Maybe he don’t feel great in the nba such as Mirotic.
Probably suffers from the euro-syndrome too…

The good news is if coach quality can be determined by how much they play Frank Ntilikina, Fizdale is definitely the best in the game. That dude was not getting 21 MPG anywhere else in the NBA, and probably not in some of the more competitive other leagues.

I don’t buy that Frank didn’t get enough playing time. He just isn’t good yet. Like Strat, I believe he can be good in the future.

I, for one, have said pretty consistently that Frank has the tools to become a pretty good NBA rotation player, mainly contingent on him hitting the 3-ball at a high-30’s% clip. Otherwise he has no role in the NBA at all. He never was, is not, and will never be an NBA-level PG. That was crystal clear from his game film and stats in France. He was a terrible pick at where he was picked, and it should have been incredibly obvious at the time…more than it was for Knox even. He should have been a draft-n-stash second rounder at best.

There is really no reason to wait on him, other than finding a team stupid enough to give us a ham sandwich for him and take his $5 million gift off of our books. You can find better prospects in the G-League at a much lower cost pretty much every day of the year. If he doesn’t do anything special in France, I’d stick him in the G-League until his option can be declined.

The thing is though, Frank rebounds like complete shit, so his upside as a 3-and-D wing seems like maybe not so great? One of the many ways in which Frank fails to fill a boxscore is that he’s a pitifully anemic rebounder.

And if you give him the “3” part of “3 and D,” he’s still a horrible offensive player, we have been over this. His skill set adds up to not a whole hell of a lot.

I mean, Nando De Colo, who’s also a tall French PG who’s infinitely more talented than Frank because he can actually dribble and shoot, couldn’t really stick in the NBA. And De Colo was an actual superstar in the euroleague, not a role player on a mediocre French league team.

It doesn’t matter that tall PGs tend to take longer to develop when the guy we’re talking about is not a Point Guard. I really can’t believe we’re still talking about him, Strat loving him should be clear enough indication that he’s not good in the first place. Let him play of course because it’s not like we have a better plan or like he’s tradeable at all, but the facts are really obvious in this case.

I want competent two-way players! But offense is one of the two “ways,” and guys with offensive skill sets like Frank’s can’t play. If you magically gave him a great 3-point shot, he still can’t get to the rim, can’t finish at the rim and can’t draw fouls, so there is a very long path ahead of him to get him to “two-way player.”

Don’t forget the veteran leadership from Gibson and Thomas part of the plan.

@66

I used to think your complete lack of self awareness was cute for a while, but it’s really becoming just annoying when the only strategy that you keep parroting day after day can be summed up by 15 year old kids as “just get two way players loool”. Specially when Frank couldn’t be further away from being a two way player.

But its always the same shit. Everyone who disagree with the bullshit you say is either a troll, stupid or too young to understand anything. It’s always been a forum for serious Knicks discussion and quite honestly, it’s you who constantly derails discussions into the same garbage every single time.

As usual Bruno has said what’s on my mind more concisely.

The straw man shit might be the worst of it all. Anyone who doesn’t worship at the alter Frank Ntilikina just hates two way players.

The Dreamer in me sees Frank as the 21st Century version of Nate McMillan but the Realist in me sees a “NON Alle-retour” ticket to Europe waiting in the corner…

Frank isn’t a two-way player; he’s a one-way player. The point is more that the one way is really, really good and the team should be trying to build up from that rather than giving him away for a bag of balls. Stats are misused when they’re used to justify/demand throwing in the towel on 19 and 20 year olds.

And please don’t cite DBPM to talk about Frank’s defense. If you’re a fan of the team and you watch all or most of the games closely, you shouldn’t need DBPM. The guy is an excellent defender, not far from elite. If he had enough of an offensive game that we could be convinced he’d last in the league, he has first-team all-defense potential. Which is why, for example, if people go back to the thread around the first summer league game last summer against the Hawks, they’ll see how everyone was going on about how poor Trae Young didn’t have much of a chance against Frankie Defense.

He didn’t get worse defensively since then.

People love to talk about defense and how important it is like it’s still the 1990’s. In today’s NBA if you can’t shoot or make any type of impact on the offensive end you can’t be on the court. Bad defensive players can be hidden on defense or the team can do strategical stuff to minimize his defensive shortcomings but on offense if you suck they can’t hide you. The other teams will just completely ignore you and really screw up the offense which we see time and again come playoff time.

I’ll take the player who can shoot or at least score at a decent efficiency any day over a player who is supposedly good on defense but is virtually unplayable offensively. Also for being a supposed great defensive player Frank gets no steals and rebounds horribly for a guard especially with his height.

Defense isn’t as important as offense. There’s no defensive analogue to a guy hitting a tough shot, especially a tough three-pointer, over elite defense. But defense is still very important, especially in crunch time, especially in the playoffs. The Knicks don’t have much crunch time, don’t have much playoffs. Hopefully some day they will. When they do, they’ll wish they had a Frank-level defender on the roster.

Iman Sumpert and Tyson Chandler were also famous for their defense but personally i was never fond of their D…
Great D means making a good scorer nervous, mad, tired and benched. Shutting him down.
Or for a Center means Making the paint and the rim a restricted area.
That’s when Good D is obvious & changes games.

The other problem with Frank is that he’s positionless. The horrible rebounding means he’s really best suited to play PG, a position he can’t play. So you can use him at SG, but he’s a limited SG too because he can’t attack the rim. So you would need him to be a deadly sharpshooting SG, which he isn’t. He can’t really play SF because of the rebounding.

So really he’s at best like a jump shooting SG, who will probably always be a low-TS% player because he can’t get easy buckets, and because he isn’t Kyle Korver as a shooter. That’s not a very valuable player even if he’s elite on defense.

I’m looking forward to tonight’s SL game for 2 reasons; first, because 1 of my favorite college players ever is playing. That would be Zion, in my mind as great as the likes of Maravich, Walton, Patrick, Bird, Magic and Michael. I’m sure Zion will be great and will terrorize the league like those guys did. And second, RJ, cuz he’s a NYK and cuz I hope he will be great, just not very sure of it.

What happened here? The group karma devolved in a hurry from everybody singing kumbaya together to Grumpy Old Men feudin’ over the same issue yet again. Might as well just provide links instead of retyping…or maybe just not rehash the same arguments over and over. Fortunately, the board will be thrown some fresh meat tonight in the form of the first summer league game.

I guess the new Carmelo ratings are of some interest though. I haven’t tracked their historical accuracy but in perusing the Knick players (and ex-Knicks) they seem reasonable enough. Kornet,Vonleh, Payton rated as rotation players worth about 10m/yr (sigh). Portis/Trier/Knox are “projects” (KK a major project), Randle an average starter, Lance/Reggie/Ellington/Dotson/Kadeem all “scrubs”. Most interesting and controversial are Frank and DSJ being pegged as players to watch, Frank at a 5yr market value of 43m.

I’ve been in the camp of giving Frank one more major opportunity. His ability to disrupt key players on other teams like Trae and switch 1-5 is very valuable especially during the playoffs. Nate Silver gave Trump a 33% chance of winning in 2016 and he won bc many key mid-western states moved as a group. It’s not inconceivable that many of Frank’s shooting woes from various places (mid-range, 3, rim) could do that as well owing to recovery from injury, improved physical and mental strength, and summer training focus. FIBA tournament will provide some insight. While it’s against the odds, it’s not *that* improbable to dismiss it. He should be given minutes at start of season instead of Wayne and Reggie. If no improvement after a couple of months, then G League.

I wouldn’t pick up his option since his value rates to be within what what our rights could afford. Of course, Frank would be a UFA and could decide to exit out of the same door as KP.

Of course defense is important, but defense can’t be your only contribution to a team if you want to be a starter in the NBA or anything close to it. Andre Roberson is a legit amazing defender and even OKC had issues keeping him on the floor because of his zero presence on offense. Tony Allen was a fantastic defender who could guard three positions extremely well, and he never averaged more than 27 minutes per game, even in those heavily defense focused Grizzlies teams, because he was a zero on offense (and he was a better transition player than Frank is).

It’s just idiotic to be calling for two way players and then get mad because people are criticizing a player who is amongst the 5 worst players in the entire NBA on one of those ways. Tony Allen went 14 seasons without developing a three pointer, Roberson is entering his sixth season and still can’t shoot, and they’re both better defenders than Frank is because they also can rebound and steal the ball every once in a while.

I’m one of the most ardent Frankophiles out there and even I can’t bring myself to believe he could ever become more than a good 6th man in the Italian league. There’s no reason in giving up on him but believing he will turn out a useful NBA player is a massive reach in the ballpark of believing Ashley Simpson will ever become a perennial Grammy nominee.

aren’t the advanced defensive metrics pretty garbage though? can DBPM really be trusted?

Frank was truly horrible last year but it looked like something was wrong. For most of November and December, he wasn’t even aggressive on defense. In his rookie season he shot a quite good 62% at the rim but last year he shot 49%. His 3 point shot dropped from 32% to 29%. Some players fail to develop but most young players don’t get actively worse.

After his rookie season, I thought he was a good 3pt shot from being able to develop into Patrick Beverley. In fact even with his bad year last year he shoots better at the rim, better from 10-16 and better from 16-3pt than Beverley. He has a better assist%, a similar blk%, and higher usage. Beverley gets more steals but Frank’s stl% in his rookie year is only .2% worse than Beverley’s career %. I don’t see it as too much of a leap if last year was the outlier and not his rookie year. This year should show us which year was the fluke.

There is a lot of reason to believe that Frank is a bust but I think he showed enough in his rookie year to hold out some hope that maybe injuries affected him last year more than he let on.

@92
I’d call Speedy a “super fast PG,” but that’s kind of redundant. He’s speedy. He’s a pace pusher, and, um… Tonight he’s probably a “towel waver” and “bench congratuler,” etc.

He’s only the second Speedy I’ve ever heard of. The first, of course, was Speedy Gonzales!

Yeah I mean sure, give Frank more minutes, I’d rather see the minutes go to young guys in general on this team. There’s no harm in giving him another shot, worse case scenario you lose some games. Maybe he really was hampered by injuries more than we thought last year, that is a reasonable enough thing to hope for.

He’s never been good though, not at any level.

If you’re reading this > i don’t really mean it Speedy.
Just trying to motivate you to kick ass !
Once a Knick Always a Knick !

Well, last year Speedy was a “Miss Always” PG.

I want the guy to hit just one shot this SL. Assuming he ever gets on the court. Maybe then he’ll get a 1+1 from Steve Mills?

As Knicks fans we should always be looking for small victories to root for.

I am drooling over the impending reality of Mitch destructing Zion at the rim.

smells like playoff intensity already !!!!

If given the chance, Speedy will juke Zion right out of his shoes! Or, Zion will just break them, again.

Even long lost Z threw in a post for the occasion.

If Speedy is smart he’ll come out guns blazing, since the Knicks management proved last season that they value volume over shot quality every time. Shoot your shot Speedy, you can do it.

John Starks should take Speedy under his wing and tutor him in the ways of unrepentent gunning. Or, just watch Knox play for a bit…

Bowie?

There’s a Kawhi waiting in the sky
He’d like to come and meet us
But we told him “never mind.”

Dull Lakers-Bulls game is running very late…

nice ref

Anyone’s ESPN link working?

At first glance, Gafford looked like our Robinson and it turns out his summer league stats are also similar.

League pass hasn’t started already…

Zion wowing the crowd with warmup dunks. Let’s see ya dunk on Mitch and… Speedy!

1st play they run a lob for Zion. Think we know what the strategy is going to be here……

Just for the record you can calculate calculate OBPM from DBPM and vice versa, it’s just that people usually calculate DBPM by subtracting OBPM from BPM, and not the other way around. It’s a perfectly cromulent defensive metric. But not as good as DRPM or DPIPM.

Knox looking great so far.

Zion got fat
and Knox is stroking.somehow, I don’t think this will be a trend

Really liking this 3 point shooting Kevin Knox.

Kevin Knox – first ballot Summer League Hall of Fame

damn Knox

Trier is fired up. Love it. Knox really confident with his shot at the moment.

o shite mfer!!

5 nba rotation guys (on the worst team, I get it) taking it to 4 guys and Zion. Going as expected. Keep it up fellas

Second year guys (and old man Kadeem Allen) owning the rooks.

In all seriousness, this is what you want to see from Knox, Trier and Mitch. Go out and flex a bit of muscle. I know it’s inferior competition, but they need to come out and push some of these guys around a bit.

that was Barrett classic.
A little too much one on one

I love Mitch so much, I missed watching him. Zion starting to do Zion things.

Knox just got devoured. Playing some good D though.

Oh man, that was pretty ugly Zion on Knox action.

Updated impressions – that Zion guy is pretty good.

Mitch, Trier, and Allen are playing well together

RJ has to shoot it better from the stripe. Bare minimum.

someone has got to get Zion shorts that won’t split. Geez, that man had a hearty meal or two since the draft

Barrett showing some strength on the and one

Every time I look at Iggy I think to myself, if the NBA doesn’t work out he can always go act in The Last Kingdom or Vikings….

RJ had a good lookinng 3, a tough rebound and this and one, it’s been pretty fine so far. On the eye test, he definitely looks like a guy who belongs, but he seems pretty nervous.

Zion is about 20 pounds heavier than at the3 end of the tournament

Iggy looking like hot garbage

ZION

Dumb defense by Trier…not that he was going to keep Zion from the hoop.
Zion is two Triers.

I like the Pelicans game plan, “Zion go dunk”, and he’s dunking.

That was an amazing little shake by Zion to get free on that inbound play. His ability to create separation with both his burst and strength is remarkable. It’s pretty much impossible to keep a body on him. Not that we tried to hard there….

Mitch is up! Get him to the bench plz

Zion has drawn three fouls already on Mitch…

Who’s #16 and #34??

OK legit question: would you trade mitch for zion?

Awesome stuff by Mitch. Blocks Zion’s weak ass three and then gets the dunk….

Not sure about the OBJ style frosted tips though….

Ferocious dunk, three point block, dunk

#MitchBall

Knox as a potential 38% 3pt shooter this season… possible? Plausible?

Definitely possible. Like I kept saying all last season, when the shots are falling for him, it looks and sounds beautiful in the way it does with some of the great pure shooters. And when they’re not, it still looks like they should. He’s still got to bulk up and work better on his body control, but I buy that he could be a more consistent marksman in year two.

I’m so happy!

RJ has a good handle when driving though, being lefty helps too.

I have to say, I’d much rather watch summer league with Clyde and Breen commenting, even though Doris is pretty good

DJ- Totally agree with that. Mitch should be shutdown. Or given an extension. Or both.

I want to love Doris Burke but I just can’t. She’s just ok for me.

I love Doris doing color commentary. She and Breen should be the lead team for ESPN/ABC, but unfortunately, she’s not an ex-player or ex-coach, so she has to do sideline reporting while Jackson says idiotic things and JVG becomes less insightful than he used to be.

Knox made some nice plays in there, has good wheels for a 4.

All our vets not looking so hot, now.

Yeah this team isn’t sniffing the playoffs lol.

The “braintrust” did not look happy.

Why is Mitchell Robinson playing against these scrubs?

Why is Mitchell Robinson playing against these scrubs?

Why is Mitchell Robinson playing “with” these scrubs?

RJ reacting a little to the pace

Yeah the Knicks Summer League GM (forgot his name) apparently stated publicly their goal is to win the Summer League so this is pretty sad. Also they don’t look coached at all, no offensive system at all to speak of.

trier just dunked during a fucking earthquake

That was just Zion skipping rope

@233 ahahahahaha

That wasn’t an earthquake, that was Aaron Judge’s HR landing in Vegas.

Ha am I the only one when they said tremors I pictured an earthworm monster burrowing through the floor and swallowing Dolan.

If Mitch is gonna play anymore summer league I wanna see him chucking up threes the whole time.

Okay. These folks are showing us they have no depth of knowledge.
Unnerving seems to be the limit

There likely will be aftershocks

Maybe in five years they stop MSG for flooding

7.1
Wow

Is Zion *that* heavy that he could have caused this from so far away?

doris is morphing into disaster movie jeff goldblum

“No pun intended epicenter of the basketball world” boooooooooo

@251 now that is funny as shit!

Maple Mamba earning his nickname tonight. Looked like Kobe as a rookie jacking straight garbage. No shame at all.

However, I will say my fourth favorite play (the first three were all three blocks by Mitch on Zion with the third obviously being the best) was the RJ lob to Knox II. Very nice pass and though I’ve seen Knox dunk live at the Garden multiple times, I sometimes forget he can, given how weak around the rim he is. That layup he had in the first half that definitely should have been a dunk was cause for concern.

Jud Buechler is the coach for Summer League and he was quoted after the game saying he’s gonna continue to encourage RJ to keep shooting. How about encouraging him to pass once in awhile instead??

that wasnt a good game from rj but youre not gonna get efficiency in summer league… he did look very flat footed and there was a lot of tunnel vision going on… basically the worst version of him….

buckle up, gonna be a whole lot of this when he starts playing against real talent

That was an amazing little shake by Zion to get free on that inbound play.

Is that what it was? Yeesh, I still feel my house shaking.

RJ’s shot looks, uh, kinda wobbly

Everything looks wobbly after that, never trust the eye test during an earthquake!

summer leagues not really the place to learn about shot selection or passing… its more like an all star game type of basketball….

it doesnt really count for much… u just hope that your draft pick doesnt look totally over matched…

I mean you’re not at summer league to implement a working offense and hold people accountable to it. It’s basically a glorified showcase. The players who are already getting minutes just have to not get injured, it’s the guys on the bubble fighting for a spot on a team or the G league that can prove anything here, and even that is largely meaningless… fun though especially when the basketball is good or the bad basketball gets stopped by the earth literally shifting away from it.

Summer League is basically the All-American showcases for a bunch of guys who get to be NBA-ish players for a couple weeks. The guaranteed-contract guys are playing for pride and the rest are fighting for a 2-way contract and a couple chartered flights before they head back to their alma maters for cushy sinecures or assistant assistant coaching jobs

Avery Bradley free. That would have been an interesting guy for the Knicks, but he’ll likely end up on a good team, I imagine.

what the fuck!

According to Woj: 4 unprotected 1st rd picks, 1 protected 1st rd pick and 2 pick swaps.

That seems like way too much for Paul George. Four unprotected firsts, an additional protected first, two pick swaps plus Shai Gilgeous-Alexander? Plus Gallo? The rest of that roster is looking mighty thin.

@277

Well it’s not for George, it’s for George + Kawhi, as Kawhi made it clear he would only join if George went together.

It’s an absolute crazy amount of assets to give up, but I guess that’s why the Clippers have been expertly gathering them… if they play their cards right, they have both Kawhi and PG for the next 4 years so those picks aren’t very valuable.

It’s an insane amount to pay for anyone, but I think it’s a huge win for the Clippers, damn. A Beverley / George / Leonard frontline might be actually impossible to score against.

@279 I think four picks stretch over a minimum of 8 years so the later ones could be amazing.

I was talking with my brother earlier tonight and we were trying to figure out why Kawhi was taking such a long time and I explained to him that I think the issue was that Kawhi wanted to be A. The top guy on the team, B. play for a winner and C. play in Los Angeles and it was very difficult to get any of the three teams in play for him (Clippers, Lakers and Raptors) to meet all three of those qualifications. You could make the argument that, at this point in their respective careers, Leonard could be “the man” on the Lakers even with Lebron and Davis there, but it would be a stretch (is Lebron really ready to be mid-1980s Kareem to Kawhi’s Magic?) and the problem with the Clippers was that even with him they weren’t built to win right now and the problem with the Raptors was that clearly Kawhi wanted to play in Los Angeles. So I could see why it was taking him so long to decide. Well, West clearly decided to fix the problem with the Clippers being ready to win. Kawhi, George, Beverly, Williams, Harrell, Zubac, Harkless and whoever they add for the room and/or the minimum is a very good team. And they have one of the best coaches in the game coaching them. So yeah, it now makes perfect sense why Kawhi was holding out for so long.

I’m sad for Toronto a bit, but fuck ’em, they won a goddamn title. I’m happy for the NBA as a whole. There are suddenly a whole lot of really good teams out there that could legitimately win a title next year. It’s been a long ass time since we could say that. The Western Conference playoffs next year are going to be amazing.

Not for nothing, but with Danny Green now signing for $15 million, the list of “good players who you could sign three of them instead of signing one max guy,” which included names like:

Darren Collison
Ricky Rubio
Danny Green
Robert Covington (who isn’t a free agent)
DeAndre Jordan
Paul Millsap

went for:

Weird retirement
$17 million
$15 million
Again, not a free agent
$10 million
$30 million option picked up

In other words, you can’t sign three good third tier veterans for $32 million. The Knicks couldn’t even sign five good players period for $70 million. 😉

1) we’re so trading for Russ. Luckily there’s an inbuilt cooking off period as pretty sure we can’t match salaries now until we can trade the new guys…

2) 4 unprotected 1rps, a protected 1rp, 2 swaps and a great young prospect, plus an expiring? That is a phenomenal get for OKC

Jerry West is the joint.

But the Laker are royally fucked now with a declining LeBron forced to play big minutes for a thin team with no way to get better.

AD ain’t sticking around for that shit show….. hello AD…. hello Giannis 🙂

Our GM doesn’t look so silly now with all this flexibility/picks/young players…. just sit chilly…..

Our GM doesn’t look so silly now with all this flexibility/picks/young players…. just sit chilly…..

They’d have flexibility, more picks and the same amount of young players if they had just rented their cap space. So, I’m sticking with them still looking silly (which, as everyone else has corrected noted, is still a step up from looking like complete morons like during Phil’s era).

Man, what a haul for Presti.
Man, the Clips are going to be plenty interesting. Good luck scoring on those 3 perimeter defenders. If they can find any rim protection at all (do they have the room exception left?)…

do they have the room exception left?

They do, but legit rim protection guys tend not to still be available at this point in the offseason, right? I mean, I guess they could get an ancient Tyson Chandler…