[news.google.com] — Monday, December 12, 2022 2:47:08 AM
Do any of the NBA players rumored to be available for trade make sense for the Indiana Pacers? Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Monday, December 12, 2022 1:00:00 AM
NBA Rumors: New York Knicks not interested in signing Carmelo Anthony Sportskeeda
[news.google.com] — Sunday, December 11, 2022 11:43:00 PM
Knicks’ Jalen Brunson could miss time after exiting with sprained ankle New York Post
[news.google.com] — Sunday, December 11, 2022 10:00:05 PM
NBA Rumors: Lakers Trade Scenario For Immanuel Quickley NBA Analysis Network
[news.google.com] — Sunday, December 11, 2022 9:54:39 PM
Knicks on the Court: December 11 vs. Kings Photo Gallery NBA.com
[news.google.com] — Sunday, December 11, 2022 9:29:05 PM
Knicks 112, Kings 99: No Fox, Big Problems The Kings Herald
[news.google.com] — Sunday, December 11, 2022 9:17:24 PM
Knicks take care of Kings, 112-99, after Julius Randle’s ejection Yahoo News
[news.google.com] — Sunday, December 11, 2022 8:59:00 PM
Knicks keep rolling with commanding win over Kings to extend streak New York Post Knicks’ Julius Randle ejected after arguing with referee over a no-call vs. Kings Yahoo SportsKnicks 112, Kings 99: Scenes from the kids are alright Posting and ToastingKnicks vs. Kings odds, line, spread: 2022 NBA picks, Dec. 11 predictions from proven computer model CBS SportsKnicks Get Nicked But Dethrone Kings For Fourth Win in a Row Sports IllustratedView Full Coverage on Google News
[news.google.com] — Sunday, December 11, 2022 8:51:53 PM
Knicks beat Kings 112-99 for 4th straight victory Torrington Register Citizen
[news.google.com] — Sunday, December 11, 2022 8:43:33 PM
N.Y. Knicks 112, Sacramento 99 Times Union
[news.google.com] — Sunday, December 11, 2022 8:22:17 PM
BREAKING: Jalen Brunson Leaves Knicks’ Sunday Tilt With Kings, Doubtful to Return Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Sunday, December 11, 2022 4:53:39 PM
BREAKING: De’Aaron Fox’s Final Injury Status For Kings-Knicks Game Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Sunday, December 11, 2022 3:17:08 PM
The Market Price for New York Knicks Forward Cam Reddish Blazer’s EdgeLakers Rumors: Knicks, Lakers Talked Cam Reddish Deal Earlier This Month Sports IllustratedPass or Pursue on Bleacher Report’s 5 latest Knicks trade ideas Daily KnicksWhat I’m hearing about Immanuel Quickley, Cam Reddish and Evan Fournier trade scenarios The AthleticKnicks’ Cam Reddish denies trade request, wasn’t given reason for removal from rotation Yahoo SportsView Full Coverage on Google News
[news.google.com] — Sunday, December 11, 2022 2:25:51 PM
Sacramento Kings at New York Knicks odds, picks and predictions Coloradoan
[news.google.com] — Sunday, December 11, 2022 2:00:09 PM
Knicks’ Ryan Arcidiacono: Remains out Sunday CBS Sports
[news.google.com] — Sunday, December 11, 2022 1:22:52 PM
Former Knicks Assistant Paul Silas Passes at 79 Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Sunday, December 11, 2022 12:50:35 PM
Despite Obi Toppin injury, Knicks not looking at Carmelo Anthony: Reports AMNY
[news.google.com] — Sunday, December 11, 2022 11:21:21 AM
Knicks Rumors: Carmelo Anthony Reunion Unlikely Due to Defensive Concerns Bleacher Report
[news.google.com] — Sunday, December 11, 2022 10:22:15 AM
5 year-over-year improvements for 2022-23 Knicks Yahoo Sports
[news.google.com] — Sunday, December 11, 2022 9:44:47 AM
Was The RJ Barrett Extension A Mistake For The New York Knicks? Forbes
128 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2022.12.12)”
4 game winning streak, RJ is getting back on track (And yes, i asked some threads ago if him getting better at FTs was a sign that the rest of his numbers would also get better in time. I believe it is), and Brunson only has a sprained ankle (We avoided the worst case scenario)… so i’m happy! A great monday to y’all! 🙂
Somehow, someway, the New York Knicks have the 9th ranked defense after being 26th what feels like a few days ago.
There’s plenty to be said about injuries and shooting volatility, but every time Mitch goes down we don’t realize how essential that guy is to, well, everything we do.
Also, the Knicks’ defensive rating when Miles McBride is on the floor is 91.5.
30 (or more) wins to go 😉
The kids making the defense better is among the best results we could ask for.
I think we will be ok with Quickley and Deuce manning the point against Chicago. Good time to rest Brunson. BUT..either Rose or Cam has to play in that game. Probably boffum lol. Thibs needs to be smart here while the team is on a roll. 2 days in between game is enough time to re-integrate Cam and Rose
Hard not to be happy right now.
And I have no problem with Randle’s technical ejection last night. He had a right to be mad.
Dude is ballin’ out right now.
RJ is playing better. We’ve gotten lucky with other teams having injuries but hey, our depth is one of our strengths, right? And if these key players on other teams are missing multiple games, are we dismissing any wins by other teams against them too? Injuries are part of the game. Some of these depleted teams are going out and beating other teams on other nights.
The defense looks real. What a difference Grimes and McBride make. God, if these two pan out into legit two way rotation players, that’s gotta be a huge feather in the cap of this FO for not only drafting them but drafting them while also trading back and picking up additional draft capital, no?
Seems like McBride is getting more comfortable with his shot on offense with more consistent PT.
Glad Brunson is ok.
Looking at the last 10 games of the New Year, it looks like we have a very good shot of winning at least 7 of them (Bulls 3 times, Pacers, Toronto, Spurs, Houston) And the other 3 are Golden State, Dallas (revenge game?) and Philly. I think we can win at least one of those. And I wouldn’t say it’s out of the question we win all 10 of these games.
SWIFTY OPTIMISIM IS BACK! DEAL WITH IT!
Macri predicted Rose starts if Brunson is out. He’s the only other guard on the team who can do some of what Brunson can on offense, he doesn’t disrupt the rest of Thibs’ beloved rotations, and he and Thibs have enough trust that he can be moved into and out of the rotation without drama, as opposed to Cam (or, last year, Kemba).
The injuries don’t take anything away from wins, IMO. But the shooting volatility is worth examining.
OPP 3P shooting during the streak:
SAC: 10-39
CHA: 6-26
ATL: 6-36
CLE: 8-35
30-136 = 22%
I mentioned the other day the Invisible Sixth Man may actually be the foundation of our defense, and I was only half joking.
Clearly Mitch’s ability to protect the paint is the foundation. But I’m beginning to think that “rely on shooting volatility” really is the plan’s fulcrum.
Not only that, it is actually a mathematically sound strategy for a team without any of the game’s elite offensive players..
“But the shooting volatility is worth examining.”
Didn’t someone also flag that we are switching less on D since Grimes and Deuce started playing meaningful minutes. There’s another variable, perhaps.
Man listen..Mitch is a monster out there. Literally and figuratively. He physically looks like prime Shaq on the court with high-schoolers. I feel like listing him at 7′ 240(when he’s actually around 265) is selling him way short. He almost looks like an athletic 7’2″ 280 out there
eye test for me is that the opposition is still getting somewhat “open” looks…but they are slightly more rushed than before given closer dee or some of them are still open and they (opposition) might be anticipating better close outs and slightly rushing…not sure…but I don’t know if they track the stat of “uncontested” and what % of the attempts have been falling in the category vs prior to win streak…
Couldn’t this be a moneyball-type strategy? Lacking a Giannis, LeBron, Zion, etc is the same disadvantage as being a small market team with low payroll.
You’ll be able to exceed expectations when the volatility is in your favor. And when the league average is 36%, a friendly shift will yield some big results.
And just like how the A’s struggled whenever they faced a $200mm payroll like the Yanks, the teams that can actually shoot are likely going to beat us. But there are far more teams that can’t than can.
And Thibs comes from the old school of “live by the three, die by the three,” so it really wouldn’t surprise me if he’s thinking this way.
Macri reads Knickerblogger and he saw Nicos saying this on the game thread, right after the end of the game. 😉
4 things I like about this little 4 game streak
-it is clearly built on playing better defence which makes this team much easier to root for (and less likely to get booed)
-it coincides with Julius playing really well which has got to increase his value. Not that I want to put him on the block but if a mega-trade is up for grabs we have more assets (either him or the pick we thought we would need to trade him with).
-also coincides with the 2 oldest players glued to the bench with our 3 youngest players playing significant minutes
-it is not off the back of Cam’s play
“Somehow, someway, the New York Knicks have the 9th ranked defense after being 26th what feels like a few days ago.”
i think due to a ton of missed games from key players the league is abnormally high in parity right now… reminiscent of the empty arenas season…. which is leading to some converged records and some of the stats… like def rating… are reflecting that…
the 8th best defensive team is boston with a 111.1 rating but the 20th is dallas with 112.5…. also if you look also there’s 13 teams within 3 games of .500…. so being the 9th best defensive team is great but we’re not far away from being 20th either… it’s just the nature of the season so far…
early season numbers are always going to be volatile but it’s especially so right now so yes our defense has looked a lot better.. but we’ve also played against some normally bad teams without their best player and we were at full strength…. so what that means going forward is that we’re probably not the 9th best def team…. and we could be anywhere between 9 and 20 for the 25 games or so….
I imagine Macri would reach for the bottle within five minutes of reading a KB comments thread. Maybe two minutes.
Invisible Sixth Man
In 2020-2021 The Knicks under Thibs had one of the top rated defenses in the league.
Last season, the defense started out bad bc of Kemba starting and Mitch being out of shape. But by the end of the season, we were a top 10 defense.
Now, after starting out poorly with Mitch being injured and Fournier starting, we’re now in the top 10 again and climbing.
Maybe we drop the Invisible 6th Man stuff and just acknowledge that Thibs (when he has good defensive players in the rotation) is a good defensive coach? He coached our team to one of the top defense in the league his first year and both last year and this year has tinkered the rotation until it yielded the results he desired.
“Couldn’t this be a moneyball-type strategy?”
*********************
I was thinking the same thing, and it absolutely is a moneyball strategy, albeit unintentionally. The Knicks put a big guy by the basket at both ends and pretty much nobody else does. That didn’t let them shop in the asset windows no one else shops at (at least I don’t think so, but it’s food for thought that maybe it does), so it isn’t Moneyball in the purest of senses — but it absolutely gives teams different looks than they’re used to, lets them get more chippies on offense, and generally doesn’t let teams prepare for the things they usually see — and so the teams probably don’t really even bother too, too much. (*)
It also probably explains ISM to at least some degree.
Teams don’t regular season strategize for the Knicks’ bizarre style, because the Knicks aren’t really any good and there’s no real reason to bother — and under no circumstances are teams personnel-ing to try to offset the Knicks’ bizarre style. If they lose a game to a non-factor because the non-factor happens to hit the offensive boards well or protect the rim well or make the looks from downtown a little different than usual, it’s really no skin off their ass.
At the margins, this gives the Knicks a small “free-money” advantage.(**)
(*) Until it comes playoff time, and … well … Hawks in 5. Definitively.
(**) Which, unfortunately, is another factor leading to pointless marginal wins. Sigh.
On second thought, I absolutely would query whether (a) Mitch, a guy who makes his living crashing the offensive boards and has zero other offensive game, is something of a niche asset and therefore available to the Knicks at seemingly cut-rate prices and little to no market competition; and (b) whether the empty building roster was built on niche assets far more easily obtainable because the Knicks don’t care about purgatory.
Point being, there’s even more “Moneyball” there than at first blush.
Success against shorthanded or lesser opponents helps Thibs/us figure out our systems/rotations, but, as E points out, these wins can leave us disappointed when the games actually mean something. Right now we’re a game over 500, which is basically what we all predicted, but — win or lose — I want our guys to face more difficult matchups.
Quentin Grimes’ usage is down to 12.6 and Miles McBride’s TS% is .404.
All respect to Team Op, and they should be enjoying this, but from an objective analytical standpoint, even without the other teams missing their best players, the idea that the insertion of QG and MM into the lineup has turned the Knicks into a different and better team can’t really be taken seriously. Correlation is not causation.
Sorry, Team Op!!!
LOL
Or maybe we run an attribution analysis to determine what the key factors are.
Saying Thibs might have developed a moneyball-like strategy to yield better than expected results isn’t exactly degrading.
Well, we are leading the league in 3pt attempts against, so you could very well say it is intentional.
For me, the strategy sounds great if you are able to tighten up when you are up, and slow the game to a crawl. If not, you will be easily giving the leads back to the opposing team on the grounds of the same volatility. In that sense, Grimes and McBride might accomplish something there.
OTOH, if you just let the volatility to reign free, it is just a recipe for achieving .500 ball, which I guess that fits the narrative of Leon and Thibs being the kings of mediocrity. Personally, I want to believe there is some defensive strategy behind to be better than .500.
Also, I would really love to get my hands to NBA tracking data and quantify the quality of 3pt attempts, but I don’t think that is something easily accessible to the public.
I would put it that Thibs lucked-into a moneyball-like strategy because no one cares about offsetting his primitive style because the Knicks are a non-factor and a loss to the wonky-style Knicks isn’t worth concerning yourself about.
Especially when they know the “advantage” is easily offset if closer focus is required — Hawks in 5.
There’s clearly a bunch of things at play in the defensive numbers, it’s unlikely that one or two specific things accounts for the lion’s share.
The important thing is that we are CLEARLY defending the perimeter better than we were. It’s impossible not to conclude that based on both the eye test and stats.
The question for me is will it be enough to beat better/less injured teams than the ones we’ve been playing, i.e. are we just another version of an aroung .500 team?
I think this next stretch is an excellent test of that question, and will tell us whether our 3pt defense is for real:
CHI is struggling to win and has flaws but when they are playing well they can beat anyone…they recently beat the Celts and Bucks…and playing them 3 times in 10 days will allow for lots of film study and counterpunching adjustments.
Indiana with Hali back is no picnic either, and they shoot the 3 very well (10th in 3PT%, 4th in 3PAr)
GSW leads the league in total 3PA and makes 37.6% of them.
The Raps don’t bomb away as much but their positional length and athleticism has given us problems. They’re kind of a test for our POA defenders who are all on the small side. OTOH Mitch and Hart (and Sims?) might like playing against a bunch of 6’8″ string beans in the paint…
The games are also going to be coming fast and furious. We have a game every other day for the foreseeable future, with one B2B mixed in until after we play the Raptors again on January 6.
Just to clarify, I think the question of whether we are “around a .500 team” has already been largely answered…this next 6-game stretch is more about predicting where we will wind up relative to .500. Of course, if both Brunson and Obi miss that entire stretch, it will still be sort of fuzzy, but Rose might be a reasonable 20-minute analog for Brunson and Sims vs. Obi is sort of a defense/rebounding for transition offense tradeoff.
From Shams’ latest notebook, which is mostly hot goss about other teams:
I truly think Bogie’s extension with Detroit was done specifically to make him a more attractive trade asset.
Watching team pessimist bend over backwards to try and explain away this improved play is hilarious. You guys just can’t enjoy nice things, can you?
Swift, people are going to discuss the team in depth here. That includes reasons for both optimism and pessimism moving forward. A team being 14-13 is not a convincing reason to never discuss potential areas of vulnerability.
I guess I’m not supposed to provide specific recommendations for Knicks based websites where they don’t discuss the latter, so you’ll have to take my word for it that they exist and I’m sure you can find them if that’s what you’re looking for.
E, your take that teams don’t care about losing to the Knicks because we’re a “non-factor” is truly one of your all time worst.
OK, then I’d invite the rebuttal(s) that explain how the Knicks are an association factor. I’m entirely open to them, I just don’t see them, and I don’t think they exist.
I guess it’s not 100% literally true that teams don’t care about a loss, but you’re far less likely to care if you know you’ll be back to playing normal teams the next game. If I lose to a normal team, yeah, I care — because it shows vulnerability to normal teams and we’re going to play almost all normal teams. If I lose to a not-normal team, it has no additional “meaning,” and so I care far less.
Especially, again, if I know if I need to, I can easily adjust to the non-normal team. (Hawks in 5).
I’m beginning to believe it is intentional, is what I’m saying. And not only is it intentional, it’s mathematically viable.
“Brian Cronin says:
December 12, 2022 at 12:34
I truly think Bogie’s extension with Detroit was done specifically to make him a more attractive trade asset.”
Makes a lot of sense. It was curious that Ainge made that trade. maybe he thought of Olynyk as a better mentor/glue guy for the younger players?
Hahaha… hey man, I can’t speak for all of Team Op but I think we’re still in the infant stages of the Grimes/Deuce backcourt rotation. We all agree we need a larger sample size to begin to cast projections. It’s just that, as Z-man said, they’ve helped to improve the perimeter defense which has helped the overall defense. The next step is for them to continue this against better teams and continue to hit some shots.
If they send us a lightly protected pick, i would trade Fournier and Cam for Beverley and Lonnie Walker. The pick is the main asset of the deal, but this season Walker’s offense seems to be coming around, and we can check if Thibs can turn him into a good defensive player. No place for Beverley here, because he’s 6’1 and only plays PG, he’s expiring so we’d waive him.
I don’t believe that the Lakers have the ability to protect their picks, just because the only ones they can trade are in the distant future. At least, that’s my vague recollection from a Zach Lowe podcast a month or two ago.
Maybe he wanted to have more room below the luxury tax. He saved around 5M with that trade to get them around 7M below the tax. So now if he makes a trade that has Utah receiving more money than they send away, he has some room to do it without worrying how is he gonna shed money to be below the tax. Some teams stress a little about the tax and Utah seems to be one of those teams.
The Knicks’ team defensive numbers are confounding to me.
They’re an elite defensive team against 2-pointers. That’s good!
They’re a terrible defensive team against 3-pointers. That’s bad!
They allow a ton of three pointers attempted. That’s bad!
Somehow this all shakes out to them being the #2 team in the league in defensive eFG%. That’s good!
They’re only 24th in the league in defensive rebounding. That’s bad!
But they’re rising quickly in that statistic, and were #1 in the league last year. That’s good!
The high-volatility strategy of locking down the paint while hoping your opponent misses 3’s is probably going to seem effective at times, and ineffective at times. That’s good and bad!
tl;dr (shrug emoticon)
Even better, i’ll take gladly an unprotected pick. 😉 😀
First off, as someone that works with college coaches, I can tell you EVERY coach and team cares about winning (although I’ll add a caveat that at the Cali juco level, strength of schedule is probably just as important).
A win is a win – I mean yes we looks for stats and trends to explain the whys and probability for the long run, and that’s important. But getting the win by any means is #1. “Normal”, “non-normal”… that doesn’t matter.
Secondly, with all due respect, it seems like you’re going out of your way to make a fatalistic projection of a team that’s not only on a four game win streak, but has shown signs of figuring some things out that could be sustainable. Why pick now to be glum? Your point that (paraphrasing) “teams don’t care as much b/c we’ll be a first round out anyways” – I can almost guarantee you none of these teams or their coaches think that way.
Optimistic projections of this season’s record had us as a low playoff seed anyways. We still have 2/3rds of a season to play in year where there’s a lot of volatility in the standings. Jus’ sayin’…
Lakers won’t be trading Walker, I think. He’s their best three point shooter and shoots at decent volume. I think the only frame for a deal that works without moving Russ and/or without involving a third team is Fournier for Pat Bev and Toscano-Anderson. That trade would really shore up our defense, though Pat Bev would probably take Miles’ minutes (which I’m not averse to). Toscano-Anderson is an interesting guy–great all around defensive player who isn’t too much of an offensive threat, but is a good passer–would love to see our offense with plus-passing at 4 of 5 positions for most of the game. Could be worth a look.
By the way, don’t look now, but we have two legit all-star candidates this season…
I doubt that Brunson gets much legit all-star buzz, but he’s certainly playing at a fringe all-star level…
Randle is a clear candidate, especially if we keep winning games!
And a pick coming our way, right? If that’s the case, i would do this deal. But Beverley must be waived, we need to keep playing Deuce and look to the future. JTA is interesting. Can he play the 4? If yes, we could use him right now.
I’m hoping we’ll have 3 candidates when the all star game comes around. Hint: A 20 PPG guy. 😀
I guess it’s not 100% literally true that teams don’t care about a loss, but you’re far less likely to care if you know you’ll be back to playing normal teams the next game. If I lose to a normal team, yeah, I care — because it shows vulnerability to normal teams and we’re going to play almost all normal teams. If I lose to a not-normal team, it has no additional “meaning,” and so I care far less.
Please don’t take this as a personal attack, but this comment seems to me as an absurd explanation to dismiss a W-L record. Invisible 6th man looks viable in comparison.
It’s mystifying considering he then just cut the other guy, Lee, that he got from the deal. Like, if he truly just wanted Olynyk (and Olynyk has obviously played great for them), couldn’t he have just easily acquired Olynyk without giving up a legit asset like Bogie? It wasn’t like Detroit had any great plans for Olynyk. But yeah, now that Bogie is locked in, he should be one of the top trade assets on the market this year. That dude can freakin’ score. He’s the type of guy who could slide into pretty much any team’s rotation and give them good minutes, and he has the size to play multiple positions. Few guys in the NBA could legit play 2-4 on any given night (plenty of guys can fake it, of course).
Yeah there’s no way we’ll wind up with (the University of Miami’s finest) Walker in a Lakers trade. He’s better than any of the guys we’d be sending out.
Cam and Fournier for Beverly, Nunn, and a tiny salary like JTA’s works, but isn’t really worth doing on our end unless we can get some kind of pick, even a 2nd.
I’m not sure about putting Beverly in the rotation. We might be better off just waiving these guys and filling out our roster with any UDFAs or G-Leaguers lying around. I know Beverly is only a year removed from a productive season, but he’s 34 and might be cooked. Also I don’t really enjoy that guy’s shtick but YMMV.
It’s not a narrative. We’re 91-89 under Thibs. So if you think that would be a recipe for .500 ball, that’s what it yielded.
It’s also important to separate Thibs from Leon here. Thibs’ ability to develop a system that maintains a baseline of .500 for this team is a feather in his cap.
I’d prefer to leave Leon out of it because he’s usually the hot button topic. This is more about what Thibs does to get results.
Also, why are we destined to be a first round out?
We barely lost game one against Atlanta. We win that game, we’re up 2-0 in that series. Whole different ball game.
This team now has young players that are more experienced, new players in the rotation and an upgrade Brunson over Elf. Who knows if what we’re doing now is the start of a real trend but if it is, there is no reason to think this team isn’t BETTER than the 4th seed team from 2 years ago.
Also, Mitch didn’t play in that series and the only bigs we had were Noel and Taj.
“Few guys in the NBA could legit play 2-4 on any given night (plenty of guys can fake it, of course).”
Bojan is a great shooter/scorer but his D is, shall we say…not great?
What I’m suggesting is optimistic, Swifty. You’re interpreting it differently due to confirmation bias.
Reading now that teams are saying Detroit basically won’t trade Bogie, so that leaves the Lakers with our pupu platter.
The Lakers have their own 2nd this year and the Bulls’ 2nd, so I would gladly take both of those in a Cam/Fournier trade. I don’t think we could expect much more tbh. The rest would be salary filler, not good players.
I actually think Cam could be a steal for the Lakers. With LeBron coaching him up (aka one of the few guys he might listen to), I can see him reaching his potential. That won’t ever happen in NY.
Knicks rank near the top in opp efg% & 3p% for now the 3rd year in a row. It’s not a fluke.
Low 2p% is correlated with low 3p%. It’s just an effective strategy.
Hawks series was 5 games. We’re on a 4 game win streak. If the Knicks play defense we’ll for one more game, is that sufficient sample and we can rest this argument?
We lost the Hawks series because our offense (AKA Randle) got shut down. Hawks shot 36% from 3 which would have been tied for the 9th lowest opp 3p% that season. Knicks DRtg would’ve been 11th over a full season. The Knicks Ortg would’ve been 2nd worst in the league over that season. The defense is fine.
MAKE SURE YOU READ THIS- YOU WON’T BELIEVE IT!!! Maybe that’s a tad hyperbolic but I was looking at the numbers for our current starting lineup (which are awesome if skewed by the last four games) and looking at the individual stats I saw something I couldn’t quite believe. Guess who’s second to Mitch in TS% when those guys play together- None other than Rowan f’ing Barrett at nearly .600. Brunson is way under his normal efficiency and Randle is just a tad under but RJ has been great. The problem is when he’s played with the second unit his usage has skyrocketed with horrible efficiency so it’s negated any positive impact on his TS. Obviously small sample size but this includes everything since the Phoenix game so it’s not just the last four games. What, if anything, does this tell us? I do feel like he’s been letting the game come to him lately with the starters and hunting shots with the backups. Small sample size so it doesn’t mean much but worth keeping an eye on.
Ha! True, but he also isn’t Novak at the forward spots. You won’t get destroyed having Bogie at the 4, which is more than you can say for most guys who can score like him.
Another counterintuitive stat: Randle’s TS in 700 minutes w/Brunson on the court: .570 on 26.6
In 160 without: .643 on 29.5 usage.
Again, not sure what to make of that but worth watching going forward- especially with Brunson possibly missing time.
Well, no, it is not possible to bring the volatility to that point, I was just considering the hyperbole … to emphasize that if you control the volatility by:
– scoring in a more steady way, with less 3p attempts
– choosing the kind of shots you give to the opposing team
Then you can make that a strategy and use it to your advantage, by having more volatility when you are down, and less when you are up.
Yeah, I was looking at the wrong column or something when I posted above, because the Knicks’ 3pt% allowed is indeed near the top of the league, we just allow a lot of attempts. Overall you can’t argue with the results, second in the league in defensive eFG%, which is an important number.
The team overall has been playing quite a bit better since the close loss to Portland on November 25. There’s only one stinker of a performance mixed in there, and eight games in which the Knicks went 5-3 but were competitive in the losses against good teams. The one stinker was the game against Dallas.
Cam Reddish is going to have one of those careers where the questions over and over are “Can ___________ finally unlock Cam Reddish’s potential?” and “Why couldn’t __________ unlock Cam Reddish’s potential?” until he’s playing in China, at which point the first question will disappear and the madlib answer to the latter will be “Cam Reddish.”
He turned a bunch of high-school hype into $20M in guaranteed money, so I’d say he’s done well for himself. I turned mine into five figures of student loan debt and a decent 401k underwritten by a 9-to-5 as a regional sales manager. So, idk, he’s ok.
The sample is too small to say we’ve turned a corner but the trend is certainly encouraging and we have made real changes to the team so there are reasons things may have changed other than just random noise
Are we basically exactly where we all thought we would be?
Like American politics, this board needs a third party, where those of us currently right in the middle can find intellectual fellowship.
I am pretty jacked up about Grimes. Numbers still nothing special but he looks way better after a slugglish start. Yesterday in particular he showed a very surprising amount of hop on two plays. He need to hit his shots but there is a ton to like there.
probably bears repeating but we did just play the kings without de’aaron fox… the hornets without lamelo and the hawks … largely.. without dejounte murray… the injury report basically did what the box score is saying our defense did which was shut down the team’s best player… there’s also volatility with 3pt% and so when team’s shoot 21% like they have in the last 3 games it’s going to make the defense look good…
we might be a top 10 defense… and mitch’s return is always a big factor into that… but there’s not much that changed that’s factored into that except that the other team’s best players were missing…. before that we were 20th and the narrative was vastly different…
and in actuality we are probably somewhere in between there .. just like all the teams scrunched up between 111 and 112.5 def rating…. which means we are likely league avg which wouldn’t be a huge shock….
In the other game Fox missed, they beat Cleveland by 11.
In the other 2 games Murray has missed, they lost to Brioklyn by 4 and beat Chicago by 1.
The Hornets suck. LaMelo has only played 3 games all year.
I wish I could find the tweet but I read this morning that before this 4 game winning streak the Knicks were allowing a bit over 8 wide open 3pt attempts per game which was the worst in the NBA but during this streak they’ve only allowed a bit over 3 wide open 3pt attempts per game which would be best in the NBA.
So you could say the defensive improvements these past 4 games are legit and it hasn’t been just good luck with opposing teams 3pt shooting.
This is somewhat interesting:
Per Trade Machine, Fournier for PatBev & Kendrick Nunn works. So does Cam for Nunn straight up. If we can get that Bulls 2nd and/or LA’s 2nd, I’d do either deal. Both guys are sunk costs. Move on.
“In the other game Fox missed, they beat Cleveland by 11.
In the other 2 games Murray has missed, they lost to Brioklyn by 4 and beat Chicago by 1.”
so what are you trying to say here exactly? that they’re just as good without their best offensive players?
“I wish I could find the tweet but I read this morning that before this 4 game winning streak the Knicks were allowing a bit over 8 wide open 3pt attempts per game which was the worst in the NBA but during this streak they’ve only allowed a bit over 3 wide open 3pt attempts per game which would be best in the NBA.”
you can goto NBA.com to figure this out as they have a search tool that shows team defense depending on closest defender…
https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/shots-closest-defender-10
and fyi.. knicks opponents shoot 34% on wide open 3s which is second in the league…
so what are you trying to say here exactly? that they’re just as good without their best offensive players?
No. Just that from game to game missing a key player may not matter that much. It’s not a playoff series. It’s one regular season game. Other players can step up for one night or a team might have a mismatch and they’ll exploit that mismatch even more if they’re missing a key player at another position. Or a bench guy who only plays in garbage minutes normally might get a chunk of minutes because a player is hurt and they might bust their ass 10 times harder since it’s their one shot. Or someone might be hot from 3 and compensate for their team missing a good player.
If you told me, hey we’re facing the Nuggets in a 7 game series but Jokic will be hurt, then I would say yeah that’s going to make a difference. But in any one game, it may not really make that big of a difference.
Plus, our depth is one of our strengths. Which means we’re a team that has that advantage over others and that’s going to play out in the regular season with other team’s injuries.
Plus, we missed our starting center for a big chunk of games. Do those losses not count then? Is Mitch our most important player? Well, he’s the key to our interior defense and the league’s best offensive rebounder, so if he’s not our most important player pointz wise, he is our most important player in two very important factors.
A quick look to that table tells me that about half the 3pts are “wide open”, that about 40% are “open”, that 10% are “tight” and very few are “very tight”. And that the differences between wide open and open are not that big, either. So that table is not really that useful.
BTW, that table is for the 3pts of your team, not your opponent!
Isaiah Joe is currently 35th in the league in RPM (sandwiched between Dinwiddie and Dejounte) because small samples lie. -4.6 BPM last year and 6.7 BPM this year.
Anything can happen in 48 minutes.
I am going to go way out on a limb and say that I think playing a team without a guy who has won two MVPs back to back is plainly better.
You know what courage is now.
“If you told me, hey we’re facing the Nuggets in a 7 game series but Jokic will be hurt, then I would say yeah that’s going to make a difference. But in any one game, it may not really make that big of a difference.”
I disagree
“BTW, that table is for the 3pts of your team, not your opponent!”
yes you’re right! here is the right one and the knicks opp are shooting 38% on wide open 3s.. which is middle of the pack…
https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/opponent-shots-closest-defender?CloseDefDistRange=6%20%20Feet%20-%20Wide%20Open&dir=A&sort=FG3_PCT
“No. Just that from game to game missing a key player may not matter that much.”
ok let’s delve deeper on this… why do you think that’s the case?
could it be that in any one game.. due to inherent volatility of shots falling or not.. that the results could appear random?
or is it because other players on the team ‘rise to teh occasion’ and drink the blood of their fallen comrades and thus raise their level of play? and this is only good for 1-2 games?
if it was the first.. then the knicks defense would be holding terrible teams who just happened to have a good game against better comp… and the second would be that they actually defended good teams well….
and why does that matter? because the knicks will be playing teams much better than the foxless kings… and the lameloless hornets and murrayless hawks… and so their defensive performance against those teams in aggregate will probably much closer to their true skill level….
that doesn’t mean what they’ve done during this time doesn’t count… it just means that what it means for their future is likely not what you think it is….
“A quick look to that table tells me that about half the 3pts are “wide open”, that about 40% are “open”, that 10% are “tight” and very few are “very tight””
this is why opp 3fg% is inherently volatile and why many have theorized that teams have very little control over it…. the vast majority of 3s are of the catch and shoot variety and are going to be shot with barely a hand in the face…. and in the sense is that you have as much control over how much your opponents shoot on 3s as you do as how well they shoot at the line…. which btw we’re also near the top in the league the last 3 years also…
It’s frustrating because we all love to fire off our takes, but between the recent rotation changes, shooting volatility, and injuries I think the smartest take on our defense is “dunno, need to see more.”
Deuce and Grimes definitely seem to have made a difference. It’s an open question how long we’ll be able to put up with Deuce’s “Frank Ntilikina with a cooler nickname” offensive game once we start playing healthier teams though.
Grimes will eventually need to hit more 3s too. I’m not terribly worried about it because his stroke looks very good and there’s a bit of a track record (he was brilliant against Atlanta), but also the track record doesn’t quite grant him “it’s inevitable” status so I would like this to happen sooner rather than later.
RJ feels like the swing factor between a win range in the high 30s and one in the mid 40s. If he can soak up usage at close to league average efficiency and hit his 3s, he won’t get in the way. He’s more or less been doing that lately but as always, I’ll be skeptical until we see more. Been burned by this guy too many times.
“It doesn’t matter if the Kings were missing D’Aaron Fox and the Hornets were missing LaMelo Ball and Gordon Hayward and the Hawks were missing Dejounte Murray, John Collins, and DeAndre Hunter but boy oh boy did the Knicks miss Mitchell Robinson and Quentin Grimes” doesn’t really work at all as any kind of analysis. As rationalization, yeah perfect — but I don’t see “rationalization” on the KB masthead.
Perhaps I missed it.
It’s really hard to derive anything definitive from the 27 games we played thus far in terms of how good either our offense or our defense will be over the long haul. Like many teams, we’ve had some volatility in our lineups and rotations, and we’ve also had some injuries and some streakiness. But there shouldn’t be any doubt that replacing Fournier, Rose, and Cam largely with Grimes, IQ, and Deuce helps a lot on D, in particular at the point of attack/on the perimeter. All of those guys are struggling offensively, so there’s a trade-off in terms of net rating, but it’s just so obviously a plus on defense that it seems pointless to argue otherwise, even with the small sample. This is stuff we knew going into the season. All you have to do is watch how well they go over screens, hedge, help, close out, and rotate. The film evidence is incontrovertible.
We will be facing some better/healthier teams now, and for me the question is whether we will have enough offense to keep the offensive and defensive net ratings from going south. To me, a big X factor is whether Grimes can start consistently knocking down shots. He bricked a few wide-open looks last night, but it didn’t matter much because the Kings were so inept. Grimes presents like a great three-point shooter, but it hasn’t really materialize into something consistent yet. And that puts a lot of pressure on Randle and RJ to knock down freeze, and Brunson and IQ also. I think Deuce gives you enough on D that you can live with him playing a very limited role on O. Not so much for Grimes.
Quentin Grimes’s usage was already worm-burning, but it’s now almost nonexistent. 12.6%.
That is not a difference maker.
They’ve played teams missing their best players and those teams have missed 3s at far above expected levels.
That’s the explanation.
I really like the Moneyball angle Hubert introduced. There’s a lot that’s gone on with this team under Leon/Thibs that fits within that template as it applies to pro basketball — both on the court and in roster procurement/construction.
It’s also possible that the success they’ve been having on defense will lift their confidence and connectednesses on that end. Earlier in the season, it didn’t seem like they felt connected at all on D, you saw a lot of guy staring at each other with the palms up in the wtf pose. It doesn’t seem that way as much now. But if that’s just an illusion, it should get exposed in the next few games.
okay, so walkerandbender is swiftandabundant
got it
Grimes has a decent stroke and unquestionably gives off the kind of Johnny Hustle vibes, particularly on the defensive end, that tend to go away with most guys in around sophomore year in college, if not earlier. There’s not much more there than that, particularly in the athleticism department. He strikes me as an absolute vintage, virtually quintessential low ceiling guy that appeals to a risk-averse fossil like Tom Thibodeau. Most coaches aren’t fooled; Tom Thibodeau has a small side of him that can be fooled.
Perhaps this will be proven wrong, but I really don’t think so. But that’s why they play the games.
My expectation is that when Grimes starts shooting better he will shoot more. Especially if he sees more minutes with units that don’t feature all 3 of RJ, Randle and Brunson. Hopefully the game he had vs. ATL is a glimpse into the future…
I don’t think the improved defense is entirely a function of Grimes and Deuce. Mitch missed a bunch of games this year and when he first came back he was huffing and puffing. It took a few games for him to get back up to speed. I think the drop off defensively from Mitch to Hart is more significant than I expected. Of course that’s a negative, but less of an issue when he’s the backup. In any event, all 3 players are at least part if it.
As long as I’m at it, we got lucky that some other teams had key injuries. But we were missing 2 of our best defenders (both starters) a lot of the time too. Mitch missed 8 games and Grimes missed 15. The latter was nowhere near where his now for the first few . So it’s not like we’ve been at full strength all season.
“He strikes me as an absolute vintage, virtually quintessential low ceiling guy that appeals to a risk-averse fossil like Tom Thibodeau and Danny Ainge”.
I fixed that for you. 🙂
Mitch missed 8 games and Grimes missed 15.
Yeah, but those guys aren’t even close to the caliber of the guys the other teams have been missing, and it’s been virtually every game the other team has had a guy like that missing.
“I fixed that for you. 🙂”
Yeah, well, if you really believe that leaked stuff meant that Danny Ainge *really* wanted Quentin Grimes, I’d take a day or two away from the track to clear the ol’ head lol.
While I’m generally on the side of the pessimists w/r/t to the injury luck question, missing your starting center for 8 tough games when your backups are mediocre at best at anchoring the defense is a huge minus, one that has strong knock-on effects on team defense as a whole (as well offensively given the missing ORBs.)
One thing is clear: if a star plays injured and he gets replaced by a replacement-level guy, then your probability of winning that individual game is lower than it would’ve been. The fact that the Isaiah Joe’s of the world can get hot occasionally if given the opportunity is orthogonal to the former claim (also not saying that you were saying that the latter fact refuted the former claim, Jowles.) So if lots of good players were out over the Knicks win streak, that’s a reason to think we might’ve been a bit lucky.
Does it mean we should’ve expected to lose any of the games? Well, not necessarily, since no player is (on average) worth 15 points above replacement, and that’s been right around our winning margin.
So we’ve got injury luck, and some shooting luck, but I think there’s a lot to be optimistic about even in the relatively small 27 game sample.
TUKoB, exactly….but more importantly, the focus should be on who’s playing and how they play. This isn’t a finished product and it would be nice to find out for sure who stays and who goes before heading into the trade deadline, and more importantly, the 2023 draft/free agency period. Obviously some of that work is done already….Rose, Cam, and Fournier are toast.
Obviously Randle’s play has called into question some myths and assumptions about him, if not dispelled them entirely.
RJ is still driving me nuts with some of his decision-making…including several occasions where he ignored an open Grimes in the corner to put his head down and barrel to the rim…but his recent play is at least not as alarming to me as his first 15 games or so.
Brunson is really getting banged up and there’s a lot of season. It would be nice to see some of his usage diverted to Grimes and IQ…and some of the minutes to Deuce, especially if his offense rises above stench-level.
Mitch is in a good groove right now, and Thibs seems to be doing a good job of rotating him with Hart to keep them fresh and out of foul trouble. Definitely a drop-off to Hart but he’s doing some very nice things out there…had some great follows lately.
Sims replacing Obi and pairing with Hart is a very weird look but it doesn’t seem to be hurting the team yet. These CHI games should be a good test for that. Randle and RJ can eat minutes if needed there…and I like the IQ-Grimes-Deuce pairing with any two of Mitch/RJ/Hart/Sims/Randle/Obi (eventually).
At least it seems like a rotation for the rest of the year is gelling so we should get a very good look at our 10 possible keepers.
Cade Cunningham having season-ending shin surgery…
yikes, I don’t think I’d heard of a season-ending shin procedure before (aside from acute fractures)
Obviously it matters if a team is missing its best player. But if you’re not removing W’s from other teams who also played those teams when those dudes are out and you’re not giving us a W in close games when Mitch was out, you’re just trying to dismiss these wins. Lamelo had been out all season.
And what about dudes playing poorly when they’re sick with the flu? What about poorly officiated games?
A team playing well will beat any team in the NBA. A team playing poorly can lose to anyone.
The point is that those teams are still capable of scoring, they don’t turn into the Charlotte Hornets without LaMelo. If you’re steamrolling them it’s still noteworthy, albeit less impressive. These aren’t automatic wins by any means (besides Charlotte who is absolute garbage).
Mitch has a better BPM than Dejounte Murray.
Of the 14 wins, 3 have been against the last place Pistons, 1 has been against the 2nd to last place Magic, 8 have been against teams missing a full all star team’s worth of players amassing a collective VORP of 35.0 (based off last years production). The only wins that doesn’t really have an asterisk next to it is the Utah game and I guess the Thunder game, even though the Thunder also embarrassed the knicks so badly that heads almost rolled.
But this doesn’t mean the knicks wouldn’t have necessarily beaten these teams if the good players had played. They’ve played the hands they were dealt and done well.
But as a point of comparison, the Hawks also have 14 wins. They too have beaten up on Detroit and Orlando, and beat the Raptors without Siakam. But they also beat the Nuggets with Jokic, the Sixers with Embiid, the Kings with Fox, the Pelicans with Zion and Ingram, and the Bucks twice with Giannis. So I think we get a better sense of whether they are a true contender or not, despite having an identical record.
“Yeah, but those guys aren’t even close to the caliber of the guys the other teams have been missing, and it’s been virtually every game the other team has had a guy like that missing.”
I guess when they were BOTH out for us or playing at less to 100% because they weren’t fit yet that doesn’t count.
Injuries matter, but you have to look at how every team benefitted or was hurt. It’s not so easy to measure that impact precisely. I used to try. But you surely can’t just look at one side of the equation.
And what about these games where we’ve dominated all four quarters and won by 15, 20 or more points? Lamelo ball is gonna make that big of a difference?
no one is taking away W’s… those games happened and it’s in the record…. what i am taking away are statements like this:
“The defense looks real.”
yes of course it looks real when it looks like we took away the other team’s best players…. because that’s what in fact did happen but had nothing to do with our defense… you cannot say the defense looks anything like it’s real or not based off of these games…. because these games probably won’t be like the rest of the games going forward where presumably the others will have their best players….
on Dec 6th the knicks had the 23rd best defensive rating…. then we played the hawks the next day and started a climb that then ended up with a 1.5 improvement in net def rating…. and now we’re 11th…
no one is saying that we can’t be a top 10 defense… you just cannot say that we definitely will be going forward….
Of course you don’t take away the wins– hey, injuries happen in this league, and winning the games while the other guys aren’t at full strength counts. I’ll happily take the wins.
It just does sort of skew the numbers a little bit, and is a little bit annoying to me as a quant type person. We seem to have had some abnormally good luck with opposing star players missing games, which screws up the whole SRS thing. We’re getting “credit” for beating the Jokic-less Nuggets, and the Fox-less Kings, etc.
Makes it a little harder to evaluate where we are really at, that’s all. Not a LOT harder, just a lil’ bit really.
Totally with you, JK. And with the idea of correlation not necessarily being causality. Although at some point you gotta pick your P value.
What cannot be argued, however, even by the greatest Scrooge on this site, is that Deuce and Grimes, besides being the greatest cop show buddies ever, are FUN to watch. They try hard, they don’t often make mistakes, and they sure look like they’re impacting the game.
“Makes it a little harder to evaluate where we are really at, that’s all. Not a LOT harder, just a lil’ bit really.”
Yeah, because no one who seriously evaluates where teams are gives too much weight to those kinds of wins, in and of themselves. It’s really the “how” more than the “who.”
When the Celts are missing RWIII, or eve. Tatum or Brown, it’s easier to evaluate them because we’ve seen them with a full squad enough to know where they really are. Same with Denver and Jokic.
Not as much with the Kings and Fox because they are still evolving, but enough to know that he’s really important to them.
With this Knicks team, we don’t know what their ceiling is because we haven’t seen them operate a consistent rotation with these players enough to know what they are capable of once things have gelled and stabilized. Not to mention that Brunson is new to the team, Randle is a Jekyl and Hyde kind of player and RJ is just starting to play non-detrimental basketball.
The only thing our record has done is buy Thibs time to keep figuring it out. As Donnie demonstrated, our record is the same as the Hawks but they have had much more impressive wins than we have. AS THEY SHOULD!! They just went all-in on Dejounte for the express purpose of being a legit contender RIGHT NOW!
No one in their right mind, surely not Thibs or Leon, sees this roster as equal to the Hawks, or the Nuggets. Those teams are close to being finished products. We’re not anywhere near that point.
The only thing our record is telling us is that some important things are going well, most importantly, that the decision to rehab Julius’ value before making a desperation move was likely a good one. Extending RJ isn’t looking good but the ink is barely dry on the new contract. Everything else is pretty much aligned within reasonable expectations, except that Thibs is doing some relatively creative stuff compared to expectations.
“What cannot be argued, however, even by the greatest Scrooge on this site, is that Deuce and Grimes, besides being the greatest cop show buddies ever, are FUN to watch. They try hard, they don’t often make mistakes, and they sure look like they’re impacting the game.”
lol and +1000
I don’t know, we seem pretty easy to evaluate. There’s equal weight on both sides of the scale. Instead of wondering which side is for real, just zoom out and see the mixed bag for what it is.
Luck is always going to be the thing that makes us look better or worse than we are. We had a lot of good luck in the 41 win season, a lot of bad luck in the 37 win season. This year I think we’ve had a mixed bag of luck, although perhaps it’s generous of me to think RJ shitting the bed is bad luck.
“Deuce and Grimes, besides being the greatest cop show buddies ever, are FUN to watch. ”
LOL. Oh right. Basketball is *entertainment*
“Of course you don’t take away the wins– hey, injuries happen in this league, and winning the games while the other guys aren’t at full strength counts.”
Looking forward to the revised list of NBA championships based on injuries.
Kennedy Chandler just did a Ja-level full-court tomahawk dunk!
I made the case for reasonable optimism before the season started. I know a lot of us (myself included) would prefer this administration get turned over as soon as possible. But if we want this administration to succeed, we just need embrace a low ceiling for the next two seasons, hope for some good luck along the way, and pray to god that Leon stops burning draft picks. We’re getting one really good outcome this year (Randle), one concerning outcome (RJ), and a mixed bag of less significant outcomes in between (Grimes good, Obi bad, IQ limited).
One of the reasons I was bummed Fox missed the Kings game is because I really am quite curious as to what our allegedly (not using the word derisively) new and improved defense looks like against a decent team at full-ish strength. It’s basically impossible to say at this point, but I strongly echo the sentiment that Deuce/Grimes/Quickley are fun as hell to watch go to work.
The upcoming slate has some theoretically decent tests but the Bulls are a prime candidate for the Invisible Henchman to strike. If we’re still playing well by next week I’ll be tempted to sell some plasma or something for that Warriors ticket.
On topic, some nice quotes from the young guys re: defense:
https://nypost.com/2022/12/12/knicks-surging-behind-elite-defensive-effort/
“Looking forward to the revised list of NBA championships based on injuries.”
Toronto definitely doesnt have one.
There’s a clear top 3 in the east so far (BOS/MIL/CLE), and then there’s like an 8 team jumble that includes us. We’d be the six seed if the season ended tonight.
“ Toronto definitely doesnt have one.”
Bo Kimble missed the 1993 Eastern Conference Finals, so MJ’s down to 5.
Maybe for now, but looking forward, I see it differently, DRed, especially if we consider the teams when at full strength.
BOS and MIL are clearly in a class by themselves.
Then CLE, BKN and PHI are in the second tier.
ATL has the personnel to get there too but has some work to do. They could drop into the play-in but I think they will hang on to the 6 spot.
Then MIA, NYK, TOR, CHI and maybe WAS (MIA has the best chance to jump up to #6 but…)
IND looks like they are teetering on tanking….
Then the rest
I guess the recent discussion is basically: is our team as good as it seems from the recent win streak or are there so many asterisks because of missing players that it’s kind of fools gold? I don’t think we are as good as the streak suggests but we are better than earlier in the season in a way that could be sustainable. For one thing, the teams we played did have key injuries, but we beat them soundly, not just by a few points. The margin of victory, not just getting the win, matters when evaluating how good we are. Two, the Knicks have actually changed the way they play. At the beginning of the season our lineup was tweaked for offense, not defense, and it showed in our results. Now it’s set up for more defense. And given that we have Brunson to take some of the load off of Randle, our offense is still not bad.
Z-man, just going by winning percentages, Philly does not look like they are in the second tier. As for the group below them, Chicago is not in the same group by winning percentage and I’m not sure they will be. We may find out more with our upcoming games about them.
Dred, I can see splitting up the standings the way you did, but I would not include Chicago in the jumble. Of course, now that I wrote this, I’m sure Chicago will prove us wrong, for what are the Knicks if not fool’s gold?
“Z-man, just going by winning percentages, Philly does not look like they are in the second tier.”
I am including them because Embiid is a MVP candidate surrounded by Harden, Maxey, and Tobias. The rest of the supporting cast is clunky, but I just think they will wind up top-5 in the end. I also have less faith in CLE than some, mainly due to inexperience and duplicative skillsets in their 4 star players.
CHI is interesting. They are certainly set back by Lonzo’s situation, and LaVine’s contract is starting to look like Allan Houston 2.0.
But they have DeRozan and Vuc, and are somewhat deep, so I can’t completely write them off and could see them making a run later on. Ayo and Patrick Williams aren’t killing it right now, but that could change. I just don’t understand why they can’t figure out what’s going on with Lonzo’s knee.
The Cavs at full strength just lost to the tanking Spurs, so there’s that…
And I’m glad Dallas won, as just staying in the play-in so that their pick will surely convey is good enough for me.
***But they have DeRozan and Vuc***
They HAD DeRozan and Vuc.
We shutdown Garland, Donovan Mitchell, & Trae Young. Does that count for nothing?
How about getting Svi minutes in 2/4 games? Or missing Randle, Mitch, & Brunson—our 3 best players—for a significant portion of the Kings game and still winning by double digits.
Or just watch the games and see that these guys are very good defenders and the last group of guys were awful to mediocre. The kids can run the system and the system works. We’ve seen the system work for 2 consecutive years.
Are we going to completely shutdown every team every night? No, we’re not saying they’ll be this dominant but they are very good.
I was helping one of my students research an essay on why Brown v. Board of Ed has been difficult to enforce and lo and behold, Z-Man’s heroic stance came up high in our search for evidence. Ironically, this student goes to an elite prep school less than a mile from Z-Man’s former school.
Z-Man’s heroic stance? Which one?
I can remember we discussed it but don’t remember the details.
The district where Z-M’s school is located had an integration plan which was zealously opposed by parents( who IMHO were quintessential limousine NIMBY liberals) in the district and at a very contentious meeting with parents, Z-M stood up and advocated for the plan. Not quite like rooting for the Knicks in TDS Gardens, but close
Ahh, that’s right. I remember now.
I live in the area being described and am also — needless to say — bored to death with the limousine liberals around here.(*) That said, I also have a kid who just finished getting through the NYC public schools and I thank the heavens that we got him essentially through before full-on DeBlasio/Carranza wokedom kicked in. Had he been like five years younger, there is no chance that he would have remained an NYC public school student.
“Their children’s education” is where limousine liberalism runs head-on, four-square, full-bore into on-the-ground reality. It’s always been that way and it will always be that way. Is it hypocritical? Yeah, of course it is, but much of limousine liberalism is posing and signaling, so we shouldn’t really be surprised.
And the idea that whatever demographic realities get churned out by NYC’s city-wide admissions policies bear even the least resemblance to the intentional racial discrimination overturned by Brown is so wrong as to barely be worth a second thought. Yes, it’s fair to say that those realities are a problem that should be addressed. But NYC is not 1937 Alabama in any way, shape, or form. Problems aren’t solved by that kind of thought.
(*) I’m a pioneer, not a native. It’s the ambitious pioneer’s lot in American life to live around limousine liberals. That’s far preferable to the alternative. If it wasn’t, they probably wouldn’t be pioneers in the first place.