(Monday, January 15, 2018 9:21:19 PM)
If you must go on a seven-game road trip that probably will determine the fate of your season, you might as well start it with all the comforts of home. That is exactly the way it worked out for the Knicks, who treated the Nets’ court as if it were their own living room and, for a change, looked comfortable with a lead, too.
(Monday, January 15, 2018 8:59:49 PM)
Frank Ntilikina acknowledged he had been thinking too much during the previous few games and admitted he might have hit the rookie wall. But he busted through it Monday, and at just the right time for the Knicks.
(Monday, January 15, 2018 8:27:01 PM)
For the third time in three games this season, the Nets got cuffed around by the Knicks like a scrawny younger brother. Their small lineup was no match for the bigger, more physical Knicks, who beat them up in dominating fashion in the fourth quarter of a 119-104 victory in Monday’s Martin Luther King Jr. Day matinee at Barclays Center.
(Monday, January 15, 2018 7:19:22 PM)
D’Angelo Russell moved a step closer to returning from arthroscopic knee surgery when he was assigned to the Long Island Nets for a full practice Monday morning before being recalled after the workout. Coach Kenny Atkinson called it “good news” for Russell and the Nets.
(Monday, January 15, 2018 3:26:00 PM)
Tim Hardaway Jr. was a healthy scratch Monday. The Knicks gave him the day off after he logged nearly 33 minutes in Sunday’s overtime loss to the Pelicans.
(Monday, January 15, 2018 9:58:09 AM)
The New York Knicks want to help four entrepreneurs “make it.”
[NYTimes] Knicks 119, Nets 104: Knicks Bring the Lone Star to a Battle of Stargazing Teams (Tuesday, January 16, 2018 3:32:51 AM)
Kristaps Porzingis outshined the competition in a battle between New York City teams that have failed to develop the rivalry once expected of them.
(Monday, January 15, 2018 5:01:07 PM)
Trey Burke brought a new look at point guard — even if it was only for eight minutes. Making his Knicks debut, the newly signed jitterbug sparked the Knicks in a six-minute stint during the second quarter. Burke, the former Jazz lottery bust, showed a terrific handle — a dazzling dribbler Jarrett Jack never was…
(Monday, January 15, 2018 4:45:46 PM)
Joe Tsai — expected to become the Nets’ new co-owner — made a rare visit to Barclays Center to watch his future team play. What he saw was the Nets get bullied and beat up, losing 119-104 to the rival Knicks. What he saw was their building get taken over, the sellout crowd of 17,732…
(Monday, January 15, 2018 4:02:28 PM)
The three previous games it was noticeable. Very noticeable. But the struggles for Knicks rookie Frank Ntilikina extended beyond the losses to the Bulls, Timberwolves and Pelicans when he shot a combined 1 of 8, scored two points and committed nine turnovers against eight assists. “The last few games, he wasn’t really in rhythm,” teammate…
(Monday, January 15, 2018 12:48:57 PM)
With a new mindset, Kristaps Porzingis staged his most efficient game of 2018 as the Knicks continued to have the Nets’ number. Starting their seven-game road trip with a bang, the slumping Knicks manhandled the Nets, 119-104, in a Martin Luther King Day matinee at Barclays Center. Porzingis poured in 26 points in 27 minutes…
(Monday, January 15, 2018 9:56:51 AM)
With the Knicks remaining cautious after he soared over his minutes limit in Sunday’s overtime loss to New Orleans, Tim Hardaway Jr. sat out Monday’s second leg of a back-to-back against the Nets. After playing 25 minutes in his return Friday in Minnesota and an extended 33 minutes in the overtime loss against the Pelicans…
[NYDN] Michael Beasley put on weight to play power forward for Knicks (Monday, January 15, 2018 2:46:55 PM)
Normally players lose weight during the season, a natural consequence of the nonstop cardio. Michael Beasley gained 30 pounds.
[NYDN] Kristaps Porzingis helps Knicks end skid, defeat Nets 119-104 (Monday, January 15, 2018 12:33:50 PM)
If only the Knicks always had the Nets to boost their confidence.
[SNY Knicks] Ntilikina does a ‘little bit of everything’ in Knicks win over Nets (Monday, January 15, 2018 7:47:13 PM)
Knicks rookie guard Frank Ntilikina came up just shy of his first-career triple-double in Monday’s 119-104 win over the Brooklyn Nets at Barclays Center.
[SNY Knicks] Knicks use strong fourth quarter to pull away from Nets, snap losing skid (Monday, January 15, 2018 5:47:43 PM)
The Knicks outscored the Nets 36-23 in the fourth quarter en route to a 119-104 win on Monday at Barclays Center.
[SNY Knicks] Porzingis admits challenges have come being a franchise player (Monday, January 15, 2018 1:20:48 PM)
In his first season as the Knicks’ franchise player, Kristaps Porzingis admits it has been a challenge to live up to the expectations placed on him.
[SNY Knicks] Today’s game: Knicks at Nets, 3:00 p.m. (Monday, January 15, 2018 2:00:33 PM)
NEW YORK — The road struggles of the New York Knicks already are a focal point. Their issues away from midtown Manhattan are about to become even more magnified if they continue.
(Tuesday, January 16, 2018 12:01:22 AM)
Kristaps Porzingis is just 44 games into his role as the No. 1 option in an NBA offense, so the flashes of brilliance could yet become a regular thing.
85 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2018.01.16)”
For all this talk about Beasley’s…eccentricity and past, he has been great this season. He’s done what coaches asked- including gaining weight to play the 4, and produced. I hope he gets recognition for that. In today’s society we have a tendency to forget that everyone has bad times in life, and we often choose to not see positive changes in the people who work to achieve them.
That is all.
I was pleasantly surprised with Trey Burke’s few minutes – didn’t force anything, made some nice passes, and wasn’t noticeably bad on defense. If he can provide what Jack was doing on offense while actually shooting 3 pointers, that would be pretty valuable.
Meanwhile, I wonder if Cleveland would consider Frye + Shump + 1 more minimum contract + their own 1st rounder (currently #25) for KOQ + Lee.
From our perspective – Frye expires, and while Shump would almost certainly opt into his $11MM next year, he expires a year earlier than Lee. We’re obviously doing this for some 2019-20 cap relief + the late first rounder.
I think KOQ and Lee would help Cleveland a LOT. KOQ brings a lot of what Tristan Thompson brings (not quite as mobile on defense but is a much better rim protector, and is 1000x better on offense), and Lee would absolutely flourish playing off the ball with either LBJ or Isaiah. On top of that, if the Knicks take on Calderon’s contract (and presumably just release him), we’d be taking in 19.2MM and sending back 15.8MM –> would save Dan Gilbert $10MM in luxury tax on top of whatever prorated salary is left for this year. Cleveland gets to keep the Nets pick while getting two rotation players basically at the cost of 2 guys that don’t play, a late first, and 1 extra year of Lee’s contract.
There’d probably have to be some weird roster stuff that happens (to create a roster spot for Calderon who would then be released) but it seems doable.
Thoughts?
@Frank
I would happily take that deal even if I’d hope for a little more than that. It would a huge step for the franchise. Importantly, it seems good enough for Cleveland that you might be able to get them to pull the trigger right away, which could add a number of losses to the Knicks’ record vs trading the pair at the deadline.
edit: Cleveland though can’t trade their pick since they owe their 2019 to ATL next year if it’s not top 10.
That’s a good framework for a Cleveland deal. It would be nice if we could drive up the price by getting a few more teams involved (Minnesota/OKC/Toronto/Detroit come to mind off the top of my head) but I’d definitely make that trade if nothing else materializes.
Latke, I’m pretty sure they just need to hold onto one 2018 first rounder between the Brooklyn pick and their own pick to be Stepien compliant.
Isn’t the Stepien rule only applicable when it’s future picks? I’m not sure, but I think the Cavs are allowed to trade their current pick even if the next year’s pick has been traded already.
Edit: I’m dumb, the 2018 counts as a future pick, yes.
They should be able to do it anyway if they keep the nets pick.
i dont think that trade puts Clevland into the promise land and therefore the pick would be the sticking point. they have their eyes on Deandre Jordan and if they can acquire him for Tristian and that 2nd first round pick thats the trade they want .
This is not admirable behavior in general, but in the specific context of “fitting into a team,” it’s astonishing to me that Gerald Green is already willing to go into other teams’ locker rooms with his Rockets teammates to go beat up opposing players.
Or, in the alternative, it could be that Gerald Green is just a guy who would take any opportunity to get into a fight. That’s certainly a real possibility, as well.
Deandre will be a very interesting case in the trade market — he’s already 29 and will be 30 by the time next season starts, and will be due a new contract. Does Cleveland really want to pay that much for a rental? And if it’s not just a rental, are they going to give a big contract to a 30 year old center? And if I’m the Clips, do I want Tristan Thompson? Seems they could get a better deal elsewhere.
The Cavs have to decide whether they are going to go “all in” this year or whether they are going to tweak what they have now and simultaneously start preparing for the future with the Nets pick.
If they decide to go all in, the Nets pick plus filler could be used to bring in another major piece .
If they decide to tweak, they could be interested in something NY has, but I don’t think it will be O’Quinn unless they trade Tristan Thompson in another deal first. They certainly don’t need both.
Courtney Lee would fit better. Shumpert is not any good and is always injured anyway. JR Smith is on a steep decline. Lee is experienced enough to step into that role, will help space the floor, and play decent defense. But it really depends on whether Lebron/they are ready to move on.
That Rockets-Clippers game was surprisingly fun. I’m glad I couldn’t sleep and decided to watch the second half.
I wonder what KOQ’s market is around the league. His advanced stats are really remarkable. his DBPM is +4.2 which is better than Draymond Green, Deandre Jordan, Embiid, and Gobert. He has a 118 ORtg and 102 DRtg, TS 63.2 on 19 usage. He’s 13th in DRPM and 7th overall in RPM among centers. Literally his only statistical weakness is turnovers, but on the other hand he is 88th percentile among centers in assists. And unlike Thompson, he can’t just be left alone on offense as he’ll not only make a pass but is also 84th percentile in mid-range jumpshooting.
I could possibly see a team in need of a big saying that he’s MUCH cheaper than DJ and so why not go for him instead?
It is so gross that the Knicks are three games out of the #8 seed in the East right now. They’re 2 games up on the #11 team in the Conference. This team is so making a move for that #9 seed, aren’t they?
NBA Trade Rumors did a “Free Agent Round-Up” and they suggested that KOQ would opt in next year and hope to cash in on the 2019 free agent market. That’s bonkers, right?
if thats true, KOQ is a lot more valuable today than he was yesterday because of the value of that contract.
I think O’Quinn simply does not have the reputation, and the smart heavy analytical teams that would pay attention to this sort of statistical profile are already set at his position or have no assets they would want to trade.
He would fit like a glove on the Rockets or the Spurs for example, but they’re not very much in need of what he does, it would be just a luxury.
Why the Celtics aren’t trying to make a move for him is what I can’t understand much, he would be very good for them.
Agreed, but how could it be true? How could he opt in for $4 million for a single year? That doesn’t make any sense. It’s not like he’s 22 and will get a bigger contract later on.
boston has horford and morris, they are both similar to KOQ i guess
I think O’Quinn’s market value is hurt slightly by the perception (or reality) that he’s an “energy” player. When he comes in and is “feeling it” he can have a significant impact on the game, but can he play at that intense level for 36 minutes every night? Once you start thinking of him as a backup, there’s only so much you are going to be willing to give up to get him.
This is the same kind of thing that plagues Kenneth Faried. A lot of advanced stats guys complain that Faried is underrated and not getting enough minutes. The question you have to ask is whether he would be as productive doing his “manimal” thing in minute 25-36 as he is in minute 10.
i still think Manimal is just a great nickname. I’d trade for him just so we can call him that
Faried makes $12 million this year as part of a 4-year/$50 million contract extension. If O’Quinn could get even half of what Faried got, why wouldn’t he just take that instead of playing for one year for $4 million? Opting in seems like a bonkers decision by O’Quinn, so much so that I just don’t believe it is an actual thing. Kanter? Sure, him I could see opting in. But not O’Quinn.
And also, teams want bigs that shoot the three nowadays.
But Kyle would be great for Cleveland. They desperately need rim protection and Kyle’s also a terrific passer and rebounder. After DeAndre, he’s probably their best choice of big, and LA shouldn’t trade DeAndre unless they get that Brooklyn pick.
i think we’re sort of locked into that spot right now… i don’t see us leapfrogging any of the teams ahead of us unless there’s a major injury… it’s possible also that charlotte gets on a hot streak…
This road trip may determine their strategy in terms of trades and playing time. It’s about 3 weeks to the trade deadline.
I think O’Quinn is going to opt out, but I don’t know what he’ll get.
I was mostly talking about his trade value.
If you look at advanced stats models you can argue we should get something good back (or he should get a lot of money if he opts out), but that’s not necessarily true if the rest of the league considers you a backup that couldn’t be as productive per minute over 36 minutes.
I think Faried is on the block but I’m not so sure he can be moved at that price.
I’m always a bit more optimistic after a win but I wouldn’t count us out of the playoffs just yet.
We had a really tough stretch the last 5 weeks with Hardaway being out. Now that he is slowly being worked back into the rotation, we’re gonna see better offense I believe. We were doing pretty well before he went down.
Burke should also give us an extra offensive spark.
And we’re actually 3-3 in our last 6 road games. Also, we’ve had several close overtime losses recently that we should have won but we gave up the leads.
The team has struggle and everyone assumes the tank is on but the next stretch on the road is actually a winnable stretch of games for the most part.
I definitely think the next 6 games will be make or break for us but we could just as easily go on a win streak as we could lose them all and pack it up for the year. Gonna be an interesting few weeks.
I think O’Quinn definitely should opt out, there’s no way he won’t find a single team willing to give him at least like a 3 year 15 million deal, even the Knicks themselves. Hell, Cristiano Felicio got a 4 year 32 million contract and he barely plays for Chicago.
It was clear in a few minutes that he can get to points on the court better than anyone on our roster. To use a chess analogy, he can move around the board like a queen. Jack and Frank move around the perimeter like rooks.
Why would the Cavs be so all in on Deandre Jordan? If the goal is beating the Warriors , I’m not sure he moves the needle much. When the Clippers play Golden State he and his team don’t generally seem to match up well. Maybe the Lebron gravity factor improves that, but that sounds like quite a gamble.
They need more 3 and D guys to beat GSW.
Knicks need to trade Lee and O’Quinn sooner rather than later to improve draft position and let the younger guys play
To me, Burke looked small. I think there are going to be matchups where we just can’t play him. But I was happy he got some playing time, and also that we have him instead of Sessions. I have to see some more from him before I’m convinced he’s going to help overall.
Am I crazy or is Lee for Shumpert and the Cavs 1st pick fair value on it’s own (i.e. without including O’Quinn)?
Yeah, we probably have something like a 15% chance of making it.
As for Trey Burke, it was 8 minutes against a bad team, but he played well. Can’t ask for more than that.
Trey Burke probably still sucks and Frank and KP likely won’t play that well for the rest of the road trip.
Only 4.5 games out of 6th place still.
I think if Lee/Shumpert’s contracts were the same length that it’d be reasonable. As it is, Shump is certain to opt in for next year, but it’s only 1 more year, whereas Lee is 2 more years.
6 game road trip: Memphis, Utah, Lakers, Warriors, Denver, Phoenix.
3 bad teams, 2 ok teams, 1 unbeatable team. I’d say 2-4, but 1-5 or 0-6 would not surprise me; we play like scared kittens in hostile arenas (except for Brooklyn, our home away from home)
Shumpert is bad and always hurt. He’d be at the end of our bench all next year contributing nothing. Lee can still play and contribute even on a good team like the Cavs. I guess I would do that deal to get the pick. I don’t think I’d do it without the pick just to get cap space a year earlier. We’d be getting worse in the short term and perhaps not able to do better with that cap space. Maybe that’s good if you want to tank, but the idea is to give up more short term to gain more long term.
I’m treating Shumpert as valueless salary filler. I guess the question is can you get a 1 in the high 20s for Lee. Lee + $$$ for Shump and Cleveland’s 1 seems within the realm of possibility, but that may be optimistic.
I think this gets back to one of my earlier points. Sometimes teams are willing to take a little bit the worst of a deal long term if they are a serious contender like the Cavs and can improve now. But if they are already looking beyond this year and are planning to rebuild while tweaking and contending at this level, then I think all their picks would be off the table.
What about KOQ+ Lee for Shump, Osman and the Cavs own pick this year?
The smart play for the Cavs would be to make some small token moves to make it look like they’re trying to appease LeBron and make one more half-hearted run at a chip, then move hard to rebuild once LeBron inevitably bolts. So they might not want to give up even a low first-rounder.
i can’t really think of too many active nba players whom are ex-knicks that i would want back on the team…
maybe frye, but, the last thing we need on this team is another big…
i got one – trevor ariza…wouldn’t mind seeing him back on the roster – everyone else – nope…
Why would we want Cleveland’s late first when we have a high second?
when burke dribbled around underneath the basket yesterday – i gasped for air…haven’t seen a knick do that in a long long time…
ron will run underneath the basket every once in a while – but, usually he’s going a 100 miles an hour and just trying to survive…not actually able to keep his head up and watch the floor…jack and frank will rarely even venture in to those deep waters…
could be the year we have two big nba redemption stories in a knick uniform…that would be cool…not good for our draft potion – but, looks like we’re already cursed to pick out of the top 10 in the upcoming draft…
Two picks are better than one pick.
Not to mention that the Knicks won’t even necessarily have a “high” second round pick with the way that Chicago is going.
Yeah, forgot how Chicago is kind of coming alive.
Yeah, if dealing both Lee and OQ to the Cavs, I’d want more than just their late first rounder. Add either Osman OR a pick swap with the Brooklyn Pick (plus the matching salaries). It might turn out that the Knicks and Nets picks are pretty close to one another, so maybe the Cavs would agree to the swap.
If they are getting two nice pieces, then I want the Knicks to also get two.
However, I really hope the Knicks can swing a deal with New Orleans for their earlier 1st rounder.
As for OQ, there simply can’t be any way that he opts in (unless he suffers a major injury this season). Surely if he becomes a FA he could at least get a midlevel type deal (starting at $5m or $8m per)? He’d easily be worth that.
I mean, Boston could really use an upgrade at back up center and off guard. Lee wouldn’t be much of an upgrade, but O’Quinn would. They have a ton of picks to give, don’t they?
I missed much of Trey’s debut because I forgot to set the DVR and remembered when they were deep into the 2nd quarter yesterday. Still, I was happy to see him getting playing time. I thought that he was an important ingredient after watching him play in the G-League. I want to see him against stiffer competition than the Nets before he gets crowned as a savior. His speed, ability to penetrate and 3-point shooting is what the Knicks were missing. He will be a bit of a defensive liability because of size, but with time, I hope that he’s adequate.
As for trades, at this point I would need my socks knocked off. We’re in stealth tank mode as far as I’m concerned.
If they’re in stealth tank mode, then doesn’t it make even more sense to get rid of O’Quinn and Lee?
I don’t want Shumpert’s contract or him clogging our rotation for the next year. Half the reason to trade Lee is to get Baker, Dotson and Burke more playing time so we can see exactly what we have.
The Cleveland trade I would do would be:
Lee and the Chicago pick for Frye, Osman and Cleveland’s pick.
If Cleveland balked at the pick I’d probably do it with no picks involved.
I’m pretty sure that even though they have Brooklyn’s pick they still can’t trade their pick for this year.
Cleveland can trade their pick. They just have to have a first round pick this year. It doesn’t have to be theirs.
We are probably better off expanding our potential trade list beyond the Cavs.
1. I don’t think the Cavs are going to trade for O’Quinn unless they trade Tristan Thompson first. If they trade Tristan Thompson, depending on who they get back they may not need O’Quinn.
2. IMO, Lee fits better over there, but getting back someone young or a pick can be problematical.
3. It seems to me that unless the Cavs have some sort of guarantee that James is coming back, it would be a mistake to commit to any more long term contracts or give up any picks. I would tweak the team a little, but without giving up anything that will be part of the next rebuild. The Brooklyn pick combined with their own will get them off to a good start if Jame leaves. Love is marketable and they may be able to do something with Thomas also. So if other good trades present themselves, they could turn it around and start rebuilding fairly quickly.
The problem is not finding a trade. It’s finding a team that is close enough to contention to be willing to part with a young player or pick for a better player now. IMO, just doing a swap to fill a need wouldn’t be nearly as difficult.
As I’ve said many times, in a league of perfect parity, each team wins a title every 30 years. As it stands, the league has very little parity (and does not have seemingly-random playoff odds like single-elimination playoffs like the NFL’s) so teams near the top of the pile need to do everything they can to maximize their championship hopes. Teams like the Clippers and Hawks managed to ruin their championship window (Austin Rivers was not the answer; DeMarre Carroll leaving and Korver coming back to earth closed the Hawks’ window, too.) and it’ll take a lot of luck to get that close again.
If you give up the 2018 and 2020 lottery picks to make the Finals with a 9+ SRS squad and have a 40% win chance in that series, you do it. If that means giving up 2 lottery picks that are more likely to be Anthony Bennett than Kyrie Irving, you do it. The Cavs’ draft failures are well-noted, but they’re about par for the course: for every superstar at #1, you have three Bargnanis. This is not a problem with #1 picks, but of inept front offices that can’t identify a competent NBA player. DeAndre Jordan is worth the risk.
@55
I understand you perfectly.
Earlier in the thread I said the dilemma facing the Cavs right now is whether they want to go all in this year or not? IMO, the biggest input to that calculation is whether or not James is going come back. If you know he will, it’s not really all in on just 1 year. So you can definitely do it.
But if he doesn’t, personally, I would not give up most of my future for a title shot against these Golden State Warriors in a trade for a 29 year old C that might become a liability in a series where the other team can go small, run, and potentially shoot him off the court. And even if they can’t, they have a big rugged guy to match up.
I’m also way less confident anyone can identify legitimately strong top picks from others. I haven’t seen much evidence teams can do much more than identify A, B, or C level prospects and hope for the best. If it was almost all luck (which it’s not), there would still be some teams with much better draft records than others just by chance. Was Isiah lucky or good? The sample is too small to know.
If they empty the cupboard, they will be in a better position than the Nets after Pierce and Garnett because they have other assets, but it would be a LOOOONG haul to turn around for a shot against these Warriors, assuming you get there.
It might sound like complete insanity, but I wouldn’t be totally against taking Tristan Thompson in a trade.
He was a productive player just last year, low usage with good efficiency and a damn good rebounder. His main issues, rim protection, are covered by KP, while he covers KPs weak rebounding without being a sieve defensively like Kanter is.
That would obviously need to be part of a bigger deal that maybe sends O’Quinn and Kanter to the Cavs or other teams, maybe a triple teamer with DeAndre going to the Cavs or something like that.
The Cavs are currently 5-1 to win the championship. That’s giving them a 16.67% chance of winning it all. Let’s say they make a few moves to improve the team without giving up the Nets pick. Just for discussion, let’s say that improves their chances to between 20%-25%.
If giving up Tristan Thompson and the Nets pick gets them Jordan and a 40% chance to win it all, but James leaves next year, was it worth the extra 15%-20% for one shot but leaving you in bad shape.
If it takes TT, the Nets pick, plus another future pick, and James leaves should they do it?
If it takes TT, both picks, but James says he will stay if you do it, do you do it?
To me, the only no brainer is the last one because you probably get more than 1 shot at a title and another year to make moves.
Is Tristan Thompson all around better than O’Quinn?
We don’t need another center. I see no reason to trade KOQ for Tristan Thompson; it feels like trading for trading’s sake. We have two picks next year and the best available player could be a big man. I don’t want to have 5 centers on our roster, so we should find a way to get a non center back for Kanter or O’Quinn, or not trade them at all. Then we can draft whomever we think is best.
Tristan Thompson’s contract sucks and he’s a Kardashian.
Wanna give $36M a year to Joakim Noah and Tristan Thompson? I don’t.
we’re already a really good rebounding team so trading thompson for either koq or kanter would probably be a net negative since he brings even less they would on offense….
kanter doesn’t provide much on defense but thompson isn’t exactly great there either….
i don’t think they’ll include thompson in a trade unless they get back a jordan type of player…. thompson is the reason they regularly trounce boston and toronto….
Kanter, KOQ, Willy, Noah. Which one has much value in today’s 3-crazy game?
Kanter is a prolific low-post scorer/O-rebounder with zero defensive value or passing acumen.
KOQ is a lumbering rim-protector with some nominal shooting and playmaking skills.
Willy is a poor man’s Kanter with a bit more polish and passing ability on a near-minimum deal.
Noah is an over-the-hill energy center who has lost too much to ever be of much value in a less-than-perfect situation for him.
I’d look to move Kanter and Noah for whatever I could get, which probably isn’t much. But I wouldn’t take back garbage in return.
Willy is a keeper, if only for the value his youth and contract represent, but if a good trade came along I’d jump on it.
O’Quinn is solid value for a backup, if I could lock him up at $4-8 mill per for 3 years, I would. But there’s no need to dump him in a fire sale. He’s very valuable at his salary.
What I’d really like to get (other than good draft picks) is a high-energy banger/dunker who can run the floor, defend the perimeter and the PnR and shoot FTs at a reasonable rate.
“What I’d really like to get (other than good draft picks) is a high-energy banger/dunker who can run the floor, defend the perimeter and the PnR and shoot FTs at a reasonable rate.”
Who would that be?
O’Quinn’s problem is that he’s so damn ungainly. He’s fun to root for, and he’s definitely moving better than ever. But the kids seem to love playing with him, and he’s definitely a team guy. I’m in no rush to trade him.
@64 Something like a Montrezl Harrell?
Put me down as a hard no on Tristan Thompson. Contract sucks, and a hint of his value on a good team is that he literally can’t be on the floor against the Warriors, and even in the regular season this year on a defense starved Cavs team (29th in DRtg!) he can’t get on the floor. Deandre Jordan also can’t shoot from > 2 feet from the rim, but he’s a monster roll threat and dunks everything in sight. On top of that, he’s a great defender that not only is pretty mobile and a great rebounder, but provides good rim protection. Thompson isn’t a roll threat, doesn’t dunk everything in sight, and provides no rim protection. No thanks on that contract. I’d rather have KOQ every day of the week.
Very difficult to find these for a reasonable rate outside the draft – you’re basically defining the only kind of big man that can survive in the NBA nowadays.
And no to Tristan Thompson, especially not at that salary.
I don’t agree as a blanket statement, but with KP it’s the kind of big we need. Phil hoped that Noah would be that guy, but that ship has sailed, and the price tag never made sense even if it hadn’t.
If the Cavs got real stupid and paired the Nets pick with Thompson for Lee and OQ, we’d all be very interested in him. But, they’re not that stupid.
Pray that Cleveland agrees with this article (which lists Lee and LT as guys that Cavs should go for):
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-trade-deadline-10-players-the-increasingly-desperate-cavaliers-should-target/
@ Z-Man, that’s why I think Jaren Jackson would be a nice fit with KP. He can run, finish, shoot threes, bang against bigs…
We would seriously have to clear house first though.
You basically described draymond green as the player we need to acquire…
The cavs should make a play for mirotic, maybe I’m way off but moving love for someone like mirotic (a borderline star) could net another asset for the cavs…and then you can do the Jordan /TT swap and include the nets pick . But I don’t care about them I care about us and what we need which isn’t mirotic or TT or Love.
@70
My takeaway from that article is that Derrick Favors is only 26 years old. How is that possible, I feel like he’s been in the league for 10+ years at this point.
Oh, I’m not arguing the Knicks should go out and get Tristan Thompson, just that I’m not totally against having him on the Knicks if a good trade comes up and he’s a part of it. I would rather have him than JR, for example.
Any trade the Knicks do needs to be focused on either bringing young players or picks, or any sort of long term value for players that have value now, no doubt about it.
How about Nerlens? Looney? Willie Reed?
I think the Cavaliers have Portland’s first round pick this year. That would be worth something in a trade to the Knicks. But I doubt the Cavs are in any mood to trade any picks, unless James indicates he is staying before the trade deadline. If we trade for personnel, who do we actually want that they would be willing to trade? Maybe Osman, because he is young and at a position of need, or Frye, because his contract will expire at the end of the year and that would give us cap space, but that is very little basis to make a deal with Cleveland. I think we have to look elsewhere for a good deal
@76
It’s the Cavs own pick actually. They traded their 2018 pick to the Blazers when they dumped Varejão’s contract on them, then traded the 2017 one to Portland (that became Caleb Swanigan) to get the 2018 back. They only have this pick and the Nets pick.
Thanks for the info. Then, since they can’t trade their own pick due to the Stepien rule, they have even less to offer us. Honestly everything I am reading suggests that this trade deadline won’t be very active, and I suspect this will be true. There just aren’t that many teams that are active buyers. Milwaukee could be one, and maybe Detroit, Denver or Portland another. The Clippers and Cavaliers probably would like to be active buyers, but they don’t really have much to offer or at least much that they are willing to offer. Can you think of others?
playing around with the trade machine….
minnesota i think is a good landing spot for lee…. they have an easy contract match with cole and late first picks which i’m sure they’re fine with including if they want a better bench option than crawford….
the blazers.. i have no idea what they are doing… but i think kanter would be a good fit for them… i’m not sure if they are still in love with nurkic … but the guy has been pretty horrendous …. harkless’s contract is pretty bad but i think he’s at least rotation worthy at a position of need…. and we can include any one of the blazers prospects… with the goal of getting someone like zach collins or vonleh/picks…
You can’t just look at his drafts. If you look at his trades and FA signings, you realize he couldn’t tell an NBA player from a bobsledder.
Actually, I think Thomas was a good judge of talent, but no judge of value. So his acquisitions didn’t do as well for him as they could have. A lot of the players he acquired had long careers in the league, for example Crawford and Z-Bo, and clearly had value in and of themselves. But he didn’t put a good team together. I think he just got unlucky with what’s his name, who was a center and gained so much weight he was useless. Apparently the guy had a personal trauma in his family and became depressed and then his basketball really suffered. Now Jerome James was a disaster, no arguments about that.
Thomas was an absolutely awful GM, but I was thinking the other day and you know, he’s sadly in the upper tier of Knick coaches that the Knicks have had post-Van Gundy. There’s D’Antoni right at the top, but after D’Antoni, Thomas probably did a better job than Don Chaney, Herb Williams, Lenny Wilkens (who had just checked out by the time he took the Knicks gig), Larry Brown (who was more interested in proving Isiah was an idiot than actually coaching the team), Derek Fisher, Kurt Rambis and, heck, probably Hornacek so far, as well. His only real competition for #2 is Mike Woodson, and I think Thomas was actually slightly more competent than Woody.
Note that Thomas was only competent as a coach. He wasn’t some mastermind or anything, but competence is sadly more than we have seen the Knicks get from most of their coaches these past 17 years.
As others have noted, the Stepien rule only states that you must have a first round pick every other year. It doesn’t have to be your own. So the Cavs can trade their pick and still satisfy the Stepien rule through the Nets pick.
I would beg to differ on Isiah’s coaching. Fisher, for one, had the team over .500 until Melo rolled his ankle on a ref’s foot, and largely did so by marginalizing the triangle, much to Phil’s displeasure. He was an a-hole in some ways, but did much better (and would have continued to) than Rambis. Hornacek has been quite serviceable, given the preseason predictions for this team. And it’s hard to distance Isiah the GM from Isiah the coach, since he coached a team of his own creation and never got them past 33 wins.
But Thomas was such a bad GM that getting the terrible team he put together to 33 wins is impressive in and of itself!