Anyone remember him? He was one of the first players to go pro straight from high school, and never did much in the NBA. Probably would have benefited from a few years in college.

Anyone remember who was the first player to go pro from high school?

I remember him, he played for the Nets I think. Good athlete, wiry. The first guy I remember is Moses Malone.

Moses went from high school to the ABA in 1974. The following year, Willoughby and Daryl Dawkins got hardship exceptions to be eligible for the NBA Draft coming out of high school.

Apparently the first guy was Reggie Harding, who had to be drafted in two consecutive years by the Pistons (62 and 63) before he was allowed to play for them.

reggie harding lived to the ripe old age of 30 shot in the head after an argument bad AI also says that he played nfl football which i believe is not true: Reggie Harding, the former Detroit Lions defensive tackle, died tragically young at age 32 in 1972 after being shot in the head during an argument in Detroit, with the shooter, Carl Scott, not immediately arrested, leaving his family and football world stunned by the sudden, violent end to his life.

bad AI also says that he played nfl football which i believe is not true

Once again, I am pleading with all of you to stop using AI for searches, or pretty much anything.

i agree with the exception of the fact that huberts ai-generated thankgiving stories rocked

oftentimes one received ai-generated crap just by entering in standard google searches such as “why did reggie harding die so young?”

Hubert, your lobbying of Mike K worked. I know have to log-in, complete with Captcha and full credentials, every time I post. Well played.

“Anyone remember him?”

Not only do I remember him, I actually saw him play in high school. We had a home game against Englewood and we got destroyed but no one in the crowd cared. It would have been his senior year as I was a freshman then.

isnt it inglewood off of manchester thats where the airport is and where the fabulous forum where the lakers used to play was also its where that joint with the giant donut on top of the roof is (randys?) why are people who are actually from there now calling it englewood?

i get it! youre talking about joisey! sorry

You wouldn’t have been my first choice, Donnie, but if it means we don’t have to read “is Kyle Tucker good?” after the Dodgers sign him it will be worth it.

Interesting Zach Lowe/Howard Beck convo on yesterday’s pod. Zach basically argued that he wasn’t sure we would be substantially better with Giannis, given that we’d have to give up KAT and either OG or Mikal (and maybe other peices), which would take away our huge spacing advantage.

Ignore the aprons of it all, and let’s hypothetically say the trade is KAT, OG, and Deuce for Giannis and Kuzma. That gives us a lineup of

PG Brunson
SG Hart
SF Mikal
PF Giannis
C Mitch

with a bench of Kuzma, Clarkson, Shamet (whenever he returns), Kolek, Yabu, Huk, and assorted other kids/two-ways.

Do you like that roster better than the one we have now? We’d be really thin. Unless the new shooting coach has permanently fixed Josh’s shot, we’d have three non-shooters in the starting lineup. And we’d be leaning a lot on a starting center who can’t stay healthy and who, as we’ve been discussing the last few days, doesn’t look like himself right now.

I just want to play out the season with this current group then in the offseason sure all options should be on the table.

I don’t want Kuzma anywhere near my team, so no thanks unless he can be immediately dumped. And even then I’m still not so sure about Giannis. I mean, aren’t we deep into the 3pt era? We should be trying to get better shooters not worse.

I suspect Milwaukee will want to attach Kuzma’s contract as a toll any team has to pay to get Giannis, unless the package is loaded with the kind of prospects and/or picks that we just can’t offer. (Like, the Spurs wouldn’t have to take him, because they can send picks and one of Castle or Harper.)

Any trade for Giannis that includes KAT and either OG or Bridges should be off the table. If Deuce is also included it’s insanity. Adding Kuzma to our team would be like throwing salt in an open wound. Kuzma sucks.

The idea is to get better.

We can get better by either winning the trade and bringing back more wins than we give away or by a fair trade in talent that addresses a significant weakness or fit better.

I see no reason for a panic trade.

To my utter shock the defense hasn’t been as bad as I feared. I’m not sure how much of that is Brown, how much is the soft shcedule and more home games, but OG and Deuce have both missed time and the defense has been tolerable much of the time if not good. I’m going to give Brown most of the credit. I think he has unleashed Mikal and OG to be more aggressive and go for steals and somehow has Towns playing less predictable and better D. Throw in Mitch (even at less than 100%) and we are managing.

At some point we may still have to address the Towns/Brunson fit, but I’m not giving up Towns and blowing up wingstop for an older player with more injury issues than OG. Giannis is great, but I’m just not doing it.

KAT has to go out in a Giannis deal, for salary purposes as much as talent. (Whether the Bucks want to tread water or try to reroute him in the offseason.) And since we don’t have juicy picks to trade, I have to imagine that at least one of OG or Mikal would have to go, too. Then it becomes a matter of making it work under the CBA, whether Milwaukee demands Deuce and/or insists we take Kuzma off their cap sheet, etc. But KAT goes in any iteration of a Giannis trade.

I’m fine with KAT going because I have questions about the fit with Brunson anyway. But I’m not also sending out an elite two way wing with him. KAT is a very high level player. We have some “fit” issues with him, but we shouldn’t undervalue him. I’d add in Mitch or Deuce (either being painful but necessary) and either of Dadiet or Diawara, and swaps. I’d even take back Kuzma as a negative asset to room with Clarkson and hope between the two them they both miss the games. I’m just not throwing in Mikal or OG.

There are theoretical Giannis trades that don’t involve KAT, but I agree with Alan that realistically he’ll be in any package. The one thing we kinda, sorta, barely have going for us is KAT might be the best player available to the Bucks, construed in a strict “how good is Player X in 2025-2026” sense.

Obviously, they likely value a number of considerations more highly than that.

All that said, if the KAT/OG/Deuce trade was on the table right now…I couldn’t say no. Our depth would be an utter disaster, no way around that. But, to have any hope of beating a healthy OKC in a 7 game series, we’d have to overwhelm them with high-end talent anyway. Post-trade, all of the sudden we’d have 2 of the 3 best players in that series. That tends to go a long way when rotations tighten and role players get marginalized.

We’d also be able to make some minor depth-focused additions in the offseason, which is easier than it used to be now that max players crowd out former TPMLE/MLE candidates and render them minimum guys.

It’s not an easy call and I’d be utterly terrified about our center depth above all else. Giannis would probably wind up playing a lot of center for us. It wouldn’t be pretty. Mike Brown would have to manufacture spacing out of thin air.

But man, you know how our main counter to heavy Brunson pressure is to use Hart as a screener? Imagine that, except it’s not Hart, it’s Giannis. It might even be a net benefit to our defense too–with Brunson, we could likely scale back Giannis’ usage just a tad to let him exert himself a bit more on that end.

I could almost as easily argue the other side of this for a number of reasons, but I don’t think I could sleep at night if I said no to a trade for a guy who would literally be the best player to ever put on a Knicks uniform.

Fuck it I’ll say it, I think Giannis is actually overrated…

Realistically, our only chance to beat the Thunder is that Shai gets hurt, they have multiple other injuries or we shoot insanely well because God bet on the Knicks. We can’t even count on them shooting 3s poorly like some other recent top teams. They don’t depend on 3s.

There are only two essential deals I would do for Giannis. One is KAT plus filler and the other is OG plus Mitch plus filler. Any other deals would make worse in both the short and long run, and that’s with Giannis at full health, which is pretty damn far from a guarantee.

That was the other main point of the Zach/Beck pod: the Thunder seem so overwhelmingly great that teams would seem to have two choices. One is to ease back a bit, hold onto your assets, and wait for them to maybe falter in a year or two. (Though given their upcoming draft assets, good luck with that.) The other, which Zach said all-in teams like us should be the main ones to consider, is to go even more all-in. Like Noble says, if you can overwhelm them with top-end talent, you might be able to outweigh their astonishing depth. Are Giannis, Brunson, Hart, and one of OG or Mikal so superior to SGA, J-Dub, Chet, and iHeart to balance out them also having Dort, Caruso, etc?

KAT has to go out in a Giannis deal, for salary purposes as much as talent. (Whether the Bucks want to tread water or try to reroute him in the offseason.) And since we don’t have juicy picks to trade, I have to imagine that at least one of OG or Mikal would have to go, too. Then it becomes a matter of making it work under the CBA, whether Milwaukee demands Deuce and/or insists we take Kuzma off their cap sheet, etc. But KAT goes in any iteration of a Giannis trade.

The nice thing is the Knicks have a 55ish win team for the forseeable future and a full building if they do nothing.

I don’t see any deal that is reasonable to get Giannis. I would never package KAT plus OG or Bridges. Frankly, if we were able to add Gainnis for nothing, I’m not sure we’d beat a healthy OKC anyway.

Giannis for KAT heads up makes us better, but that isn’t going to happen. Sit chilly and wait for something that makes the team better or stand pat with a 55 win team that is enormously enjoyable.

I think that there is a 4-year window for this nucleus. There will be other opportunities to improve the team in that span. Trading KAT, OG and Deuce for Giannis would be unforgivably reckless.

all of the sudden i dont want to trade for giannis or gianni’s or giannisis or gainnis or whatever the heck you want to call him today ok actually its not all of the sudden ive been saying this ever since the idea of us acquiring him came up a week and a half ago and dont forget that if we acquire him there is a good chance he wont be available to us (injured) come playoff time anyway:

Giannis Antetokounmpo has dealt with several playoff injuries, most notably a hyperextended left knee in the 2021 Eastern Conference Finals against Atlanta (leading to a triumphant Finals return) and a left calf strain in the 2024 first round vs. Indiana, which sidelined him completely for that series. More recently, in late 2025, he suffered a right calf strain in the regular season, causing missed games and impacting his 2024-2025 season, highlighting recurring lower-body issues.

It must be a Freaky Friday since I find myself in complete agreement with both a Z-Man and a Bob post.

I think I’d rather run with this team and see if there’s anything we can do to improve it at backup PG or defensively. Ultimately, I still think Towns might be the player we trade to make a big move, but it doesn’t have to be Giannis and it doesn’t have to be now.

would be unforgivably reckless.

I dunno, we’ve forgiven a lot…(except Donnie)

yeah for sure not into KAT+ for Giannis nor taking deadweight salary back from Milwaukee for the pleasure

Bucks playoff results since winning it all are ghastly; any “yeah but Giannis was injured” doesn’t let Giannis off the hook imo:

2025: lost in 1st round
2024: lost in 1st round
2023: lost in 1st round
2022: lost in 2nd round

The problem is that Giannis has been injured a lot the last four years. We wouldn’t be acquiring an ironman. We can currently withstand some injuries (Brunson a few games, KAT a few games, Deuce a bunch of games, OG a bunch of games, Hart a few games, Shamet the rest of the season (?), Mitch…ah, Mitch) because we’re relatively deep. We actually haven’t been that healthy — other than Mikal, of course. Sending out more than one extra player for Giannis along with KAT means we’re too thin to endure his almost certain absences.

Could we correct that next year? Maybe, but maybe not – look at Yabu. Again, we can withstand that mistake because we’re somewhat deep. But KAT + OG + Deuce would definitely leave us open to serious problems of/when Giannis missed a month or two.

I just want to play out the season with this current group then in the offseason sure all options should be on the table.

Me, too. I hate changing the team every year. This group may not be perfect but I like them and want to see where it goes.

The only way we’re winning a chip is if we get the finals and SGA breaks a leg anyway. Might as well dance with the girl that brought us.

Also, as has been pointed out by everyone when talking about trading Brunson, we would lack outside shooting trading KAT. Alan is right that we essentially would have to include him, but then we lose the benefit of having a great outside shooter as the complementary big. I mean, KAT is the perfect complement to Giannis in the frontcourt. Trade him and we still have a flawed roster, just flawed in a different way.

And why get Giannis when we have Baby Giannis in Diawara? 😉

Apparently we are in talks with Minny to bring Donte back 👀

Edit: not sure how this is possible unless Mitch is involved though.

Yabu/Deuce/Pacome works for Donte

What if it was KAT + OG but instead of Kuzma we got back Myles Turner?
Brunson
Hart
Bridges
Giannis
Turner

we’d have to overwhelm [OKC] with high-end talent anyway. Post-trade, all of the sudden we’d have 2 of the 3 best players in that series. That tends to go a long way when rotations tighten and role players get marginalized.

I think your holes matter more against OKC than your high end talent. They pick apart your weakness, and trading KAT/OG/Deuce for Giannis opens up holes big enough for them to drive a tank through. Give them 10 minutes to attack Jordan Clarkson and you might have to outscore them by 30 in the other 38 mins.

The reason the Pacers almost beat them is because they were rock solid and had nothing for OKC to exploit.

What if it was KAT + OG but instead of Kuzma we got back Myles Turner?

Does that math work?

Will they throw in Portis? 😉

Apparently we are in talks with Minny to bring Donte back 👀

That could be really nice depending on cost. Can we include Clarkson in the deal? 😉

I’d love to get Donte back. I think Brunson misses the spacing his quick trigger provided much more than people admit.

Here’s the Donte story, FWIW: https://clutchpoints.com/nba/new-york-knicks/sources-knicks-eye-2-western-conference-guards-trade-opens

yabu clarkson dadiet for ddv and dillingham? even that is probably giving them more than wed need to but sign me up

bring back ihart too please

If the price to get Donte is the Washington pick and trash, I’ll drive him back from Minneapolis myself.

I wouldn’t do Deuce, but if it’s Clarkson and hot trash, sign me up. Having DDV in Clarkson’s minutes would make us so much better, and easier on the eyes (and dumping Yabu is a positive through subtraction…).

I wonder if we’re looking at Alvarado to re-route to Minnesota in a three way Donte trade.

Shams:

San Antonio Spurs’ Victor Wembanyama is likely to return for Saturday’s NBA Cup semifinals against the Oklahoma City Thunder in Las Vegas, sources tell ESPN. Final clearance will come after today’s practice for Wembanyama, who’s been sidelined since Nov. 14 due to a calf strain.

I would do Deuce for Donte so fast and I can’t believe why anyone wouldn’t.

I would also do Mitch for Donte without thinking twice (and I love Mitch) as long we got a replacement big back from someone.

So is Rick Brunson on the outs?

Bernie, I suspect Jalen can tell his dad to shut the eff up and leave Donte alone if Donte comes back.

Also, I tried Mitch for Donte straight-up in the FanSpo trade machine. It failed:

Timberwolves are unable to complete this trade. Since they are an over apron team, they are only able to take back 100% of the salary they are sending out, plus $0.

Timberwolves can only take back $11.9M in salary based on the amount they are sending out.

Cut $964K from the Timberwolves incoming trade value to make this trade successful for the Timberwolves.

Others would have to be involved. And using Deuce as the main piece would be super hard, given his low salary.

Would be awesome to get DDV back but only way possible I would think would be in a multi team deal.

Donte has had a better career but if 2025 Deuce is for real he’s now flat-out better. That’s not a trade I’d do.

If the one-for-one trade of Mitch for Donte would work, who would do it? Show of hands. Donte would make our attack even more lethal — and would relegate Clarkson to the dungeon — but our frontcourt would be unbelievably thin at that point.

Definitely a 3 or 4 teamer with NYK-MIN-NOP makes the most sense. But I can’t figure out the backup defensive big we would need back in order to have a legit rotation. Maybe we can pry Jay Huff away from Indy?

Yabu = 5,500,000
Deuce = 4,333,333 (suddenly wishing we paid him more)
Clarkson = 2,296,274
Total = 12,025,230
Donte = 11,990,000

That’s a difference of $139,607

I know what the rule says but has anyone ever determined that there is literally not a 1% exception? It’s impossible to match to the penny. If impossible was the whole point, then this CBA truly is ghastly.

The problem with that trade is we actually have to replace Yabu.

No way I include Deuce for Donte. Even if you want to make the case that DDV is the better player, the idea has to be to make us meaningfully better. So we’d have to either add the Washington pick and/or one of the young guys to a package we can live with.

We don’t have much in the way of filler. We have some combination of Yabu, Clarkson, Shamet, Washington pick, 2nd rounders and maybe a Dadiet that we could use. As much as we all like Shamet, if we get DDV we don’t need him and don’t have to worry about his shoulder.

Diawara takes Yabu’s spot. It’s not like Yabu has been adding a lot of wins. Throw him out there and pray. 😉

Something in that mess must add up OK and would get the T-Wolves interested, especially because everyone on earth knows DDV wants NY and NY wants DDV.

Brunson-Donte-Mikal-OG-KAT is the lineup we need. They would shoot 50 3s a game.

I really doubt Minny will trade Donte. Wasn’t he the main piece in the KAT trade as far as they were concerned? They have no guard depth.

Yeah and that is how you have a prayer against OKC.

I know this sounds crazy but I’ll die on this hill: adding Donte to this team gives us a better shot to upset the Thunder than trading for Giannis. They won’t be overwhelmed by two stars. But they might be overwhelmed by math.

They have no guard depth.

That’s why I think we may be targeting Alvarado for Minnesota. If they can turn Donte into Alvarado and Deuce that would make sense for them.

Or maybe Minnesota likes Clarkson! He has name value and is cheap.

Diawara takes Yabu’s spot.

Our bigs cannot be just KAT, Mitch, Huk, and Diawarra. That’s grossly irresponsible.

Where is Arcidiacono right now?

FWIW, one of the beats told me to be very skeptical of this story. Oh, well.

If we get Donte, it’s to play PG (he’s the starting PG for Minnie, can’t say how good he is or isn’t. The front office clearly thinks Clarkson & Kolek aren’t getting it done.

Regardless, we could use more ballhandling to break the full-court press. Clarkson & Kolek are difficult to slot next to Brunson or each other for this purpose. Mikal is on the slow side, Hart makes some questionable decisions in this situation, and OG… uh, let’s not rely on OG for this.

In theory, Donte should be a pretty perfect fit for Brown’s system anyway, even if he’s only a SG.

Donte has had a better career but if 2025 Deuce is for real he’s now flat-out better. That’s not a trade I’d do.

I suspect Deuce is not actually a 44% shooter from 3. Still might be better than Donte, but not by too much. Donte is probably the better PG though.

If the one-for-one trade of Mitch for Donte would work, who would do it? Show of hands.

I guess if the FO had a lot of confidence in Huk and Mitch being done, then maybe I could be talked into it. We’d still need some C depth.

Naz Reid & Donte for McBride, Hart, and Mitch seems to work if we wait till Jan 15th because of a Naz Reid signing restriction. This won’t happen, but it’d have to be something like this.

we’re over the 2nd apron so we cannot take 1 cent more back in salary than we send

Minnesota is not over the 2nd apron so they have the flexibility to take back extra salary

part of Donte’s appeal was the cheap cost and he’s a free agent after next year. i think that’s sufficient rationale to ignore Alan’s caution about the veracity of this story and continue wildly speculating

we’re over the 2nd apron so we cannot take 1 cent more back in salary than we send

We are not over the 2nd apron but hard capped at the 2nd apron. We can take up to $148,358 back.

we’re over the 2nd apron so we cannot take 1 cent more back in salary than we send

No, we’re below the second apron. We just can’t go above it.

Our bigs are currently just KAT and Mitch as Brown isn’t playing Huk, much less Diawara, and Yabu only has a big ass.

Our bigs cannot be just KAT, Mitch, Huk, and Diawarra. That’s grossly irresponsible.

KAT, Mitch, Huk and Yabu is also irresponsible. 😉

I love Mitch but come on. Donte is very likely to play 30mpg for 75 games and make it through 4 rounds of the playoffs. Mitch is very likely to not be standing soon.

If we can get Donte for Mitch it would be a miracle. But Joe Dumars is involved so you never know. Mitch is the one guy in the NBA who might actually want to play for the Pelicans.

Leon has pretty good cards. Declined Giannis. Still in the game. But a Donte trade takes them out…classic move.

Mitch, Pacome, and Kolek/diawara/shamet works in the trade machine for DDV and one of Ingles/Miller/Bones/Clark

I’d do it in a heartbeat if the only additional sweetener was one of our picks. We would roll with Huk and Yabu as the backup Cs and look for a buyout big like Brook Lopez or whatever. Or just bring up Jemison.

I have a feeling that this is just Knicks fan fiction though.

Minnesota doesn’t want Mitch but New Orleans might. Maybe Mitch goes for Alvarado (need some filler there, New Orleans has to send money out to another team), Alvarado + Clarkson + the Washington picks go to Minnesota (they turn Donte into two guards, two seconds, and save money), and Donte comes here. If New Orleans does not want Mitch, spin him to the Lakers who will probably give them something for his upside.

so much (possibly wasted?) digital ink being spilled about reacquiring ddv!

we’re over the 2nd apron

We are not over the 2nd apron but hard capped at the 2nd apron. We can take up to $148,358 back.

No, we’re below the second apron. We just can’t go above it.

Cunningham’s Law alive and well! thanks for the corrections guys

Brunson and Hart for Giannis. Then you torment opponents with the Deuce/Mikal/OG/Giannis defensive alignment

so much (possibly wasted?) digital ink being spilled about reacquiring ddv!

True but I really didn’t want to write that email and I successfully avoided it for like 4 hours

I like Deuce more. Would be happy to have DDV back though.

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