Knicks Morning News (2025.01.03)

123 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2025.01.03)”

In 4 years & after 2 championships, – we’ll look back @ KAT as the best trade in the history of the franchise & Minnesotta will be in the lottery.

So now that Jimmy Buckets has defied Heat Culture and asked for a trade, any predictions on destination and package?

ess-dog says:
January 3, 2025 at 00:46
Ace Bailey looking every bit the #1 pick tonight.

Downtown Doogie Brown says:
January 3, 2025 at 01:35
Who the hell is Ace Bailey?

I mean, he can’t even be referring to Alec Burks, as Burks had a shitty game last night. “Ace Bailey” sounds *kind of* like “Ace Frehley,” but not enough to think that is who is being referenced. Plus, it wouldn’t make sense in context.

Very excited for the game tonight – i’m a little worried we will pantsed on national TV but it is just a great test for us.

Something to note – OKC has the greatest defense in NBA history basically, but one notable thing is how few games they have played against teams that have a true stretch 5 (which also sort of shows how few true stretch 5s there are):

Looking through their schedule, the only games against stretch 5s I see are:

Denver (won 102-87) – 1st game of season
SA (won 105-93) Wemby oddly played only 27 min and had a really slow start to season
Denver (lost 124-122)
Milwaukee (lost 97-81)
Indiana (won 120-114)
Memphis (won 130-106 -> no Ja)

So KAT really is a test for OKC also — aside from Jokic who really doesn’t want to stand behind the 3 point line — they really have not played against a team with a stretch 5 of KAT’s shooting ability — I imagine generally speaking teams are fine with JJJ, Lopez, Myles Turner shooting 3s but KAT can put an 8-11 from 3 on you if you leave him open. Additionally, I think we saw last year against Embiid that Hartenstein struggles with fouls when on the perimeter.

I imagine OG will get the Jalen Williams assignment and that Mikal will get first dibs on Shai. They’ll prob hide Brunson on Cason Wallace and have Hart roaming off of Lu Dort (who somehow is a 40% 3 point shooter on reasonable volume now?! and is somehow only 25 years old??)
It’ll be interesting to see what OKC does with KAT – iHart on him vs Jalen Williams on him? Jalen Williams is only 6’5″ – I am not sure how that will go for him trying to guard KAT in the post giving up 7 inches and 40 lbs.

I don’t see a lot of teams being interested in cobbling together the $50M in outgoing salary it would take to acquire Butler.

Houston reportedly passed; their focus is on De’Aaron Fox.

A Minnesota trade with Randle as the centerpiece makes some sense but I think their hard cap makes that nearly impossible to pull off.

Detroit has matching salary in Hardaway & Harris. It might not make Butler happy, though.

All I know is that since it’s Pat Riley, somehow he’s going to end up getting Zion Williamson out of it.

Is the game on National TV? ESPN just says NBATV.

So now that Jimmy Buckets has defied Heat Culture and asked for a trade, any predictions on destination and package?

My wild guesses:
– To Denver for Michael Porter Jr., Saric and Nnaji, without draft compensantions
– To San Antonio for Vassell, Keldon Johnson and the Atlanta picks.

lol cyber is missing the Neemias Queta game.

His line looks good, and to be able to play 21 mins in a close game seems like a good sign too. Happy for him.

If I’m the Spurs, I don’t want Butler anywhere near Wemby.

All I know is that since it’s Pat Riley, somehow he’s going to end up getting Zion Williamson out of it.

And would that be a good thing?

Butler reportedly said he’s willing to get traded to any team and that he thinks he can make any team a contender, so I really want to see him traded to Charlotte or Washington to watch his next meltdown that throws away the years of fake posturing PR he built for himself.

I don’t see many teams that would want to trade for him, maybe Memphis or Indiana could make sense.

cyber imo he looked very, very good.

Who the hell is Ace Bailey?

Beetle if he enlisted in the air force instead of the army.

Google is your friend, Doogie.

Wow. Don’t follow college, and literally never heard of him. A signal/segue that the conversation was moving to college would have been helpful. 🙂 Thanks, Alan.

“Is the game on National TV? ESPN just says NBATV.”

How is NBATV *not* considered to be “national”? It just has to be available on your cable provider’s service.

Butler (and someone named Keshad) to Grizzlies
Zach Edey, Marcus Smart, Brandon Clarke, 2025 1st-rounder (?) to Heat

I know nothing about Ace but the fact he is at Rutgers and his box score stats suggest he will disappoint someone.

Looks like Anthony Randolph with a handle

no one is signing up for the 35yo can’t stay healthy $50MM Jimmy Butler experience… and chances are good that Jimmy is picking up that $52MM player option dooming the Heat to mediocrity next year also. You love to see it.

I love that Doogie’s first instinct was to check Alec Burks’ box score.

Frank, I can see the Pistons signing up for it. They really want to be in the playoffs.

I agree with your take on tonight, too. Hartenstein is toast.

The Thunder without Chet are extremely formidable but we match up very well against any team whose PF is also 6’5″.

LOL, Hubie. I mean, those were the correct initials, right?

Just another one of a thousand reasons why I hated that no one ever actually used Burks’ correct name, for some reason. It did *not* contribute to clarity, and now that people aren’t even doing it that much anymore the lack of clarity that came from it still persists to this very day. 🙂

I could see Riley trading him for Bradley Beal and picks and then turning Beal into an all star.

You are correct that NBATV is national, but it’s not like my cable service gives it to you in any regular package. With Comcast you have to pay extra, which seems weird given how unnoticed NBATV is as a sports network. So I don’t think of it as national TV. Fubo is national too, but no one calls it national TV.

It’ll be interesting to see what OKC does with KAT – iHart on him vs Jalen Williams on him? Jalen Williams is only 6’5″ – I am not sure how that will go for him trying to guard KAT in the post giving up 7 inches and 40 lbs.

I’d guess iHart, then Dort or Caruso. OKC could also run a switch everything scheme, which has killed us in the past. They have no shortage of options even with Chet out.

I’d guess iHart, then Dort or Caruso. OKC could also run a switch everything scheme, which has killed us in the past. They have no shortage of options even with Chet out.

They can’t switch iHart on Brunson, so unless they are guarding KAT with a wing, I don’t see how that would work. Even if they put iHart on Josh, I think the Knicks would just give him the ball more to initiate the offense.

I’m more afraid of tomorrow’s thread if the Knicks lose tonight than I am of the Thunder. 😱

They have been better than us so far, but not by a lot. But with home court imo they should be a solid 6 point favorite, maybe even a hair more.

I think his real name is Alfonso Bailiff.

Denver had a championship team but they let a couple of solid role players leave over money. Now I’m not so sure they are still even serious contenders in that tough west. Butler makes sense and would help them a lot, but I’m not sure what kind of deal it would take and whether Denver would want to deal with Butler and his salary going forward at his age.

I know for a fact that Alfonso Bailiff is not he’s real name.

My cable provider has NBA-TV in its line-up, so that’s why I *do* consider it national. I guess it basically comes down to that. (And NBA-TV is the only cable network also available on League Pass. I had to finally buy it so that my girlfriend and I could watch Knicks games, because she doesn’t have cable. If a Knick game is on ESPN, TNT, TBS, or local cable (if they’re playing the Wiz), we cannot watch it, but because tonight’s game is on NBA-TV we can access it via League Pass tonight.

Beal wouldn’t be an All-Star or anything else under Riley because he has to be on the floor playing the game in order to be anything at all.

“whether Denver would want to deal with Butler and his salary going forward at his age”
Yeah, same for every other team, too.

@The_BBall_Index

The top 10 in D-LEBRON

1. Goga Bitadze
2. Jonathan Isaac
3. Victor Wembanyama
4. Rudy Gobert
5. Luke Kornet
6. Karl-Anthony Towns
7. Donovan Clingan
8. Isaiah Hartenstein
9. Tari Eason
10. Jarrett Allen

Ess-Dog: I thought of the Suns too but I believe they have no picks to give until like 2031 and Riley is not taking Beal’s contract (I’m guessing you were half-joking). So I think the only remote possibility is a package of role players that would have to include Nurkic’s contract to make the salaries work.

I hate to say that I don’t think the Heat are in that bad of shape. They’ve got Spo, they’re in the East, currently over .500, with a 24 year-old averaging 24 PPG plus effing Bam. Of course their 2025 first rounder belongs to OKC. 🙂

So I actually think they should be fairly happy with a package of strong role players and youth in return for Jimmy.

“whether Denver would want to deal with Butler and his salary going forward at his age”
Yeah, same for every other team, too.

The difference is Denver would clearly be in the top few to win a championship again with Jokic, Murray and Butler.

They can’t switch iHart on Brunson, so unless they are guarding KAT with a wing, I don’t see how that would work. Even if they put iHart on Josh, I think the Knicks would just give him the ball more to initiate the offense.

KAT struggles more with wings and guards than he does with centers. iHart can slide his feet reasonably well, and I think OKC is fine with us running offense through Josh Hart and seeing how many TOs they can rack up. Or they can always just not play a C, which is a thing they’ve done this year.

This probably comes down to Brunson’s ability to go 1-on-1 against OKCs murderer’s row of defenders, and perhaps Achiuwa, Hart, and KAT’ ability to overwhelm a poor rebounding team.

So I think the only remote possibility is a package of role players that would have to include Nurkic’s contract to make the salaries work.

I think the Suns are over the 2nd apron and can’t do that.

@The_BBall_Index

The top 10 in D-LEBRON

1. Goga Bitadze
2. Jonathan Isaac
3. Victor Wembanyama
4. Rudy Gobert
5. Luke Kornet
6. Karl-Anthony Towns
7. Donovan Clingan
8. Isaiah Hartenstein
9. Tari Eason
10. Jarrett Allen

This would be a great list of it weren’t for KAT and, maybe, Clingan. Probably giving too much credit for rebounds.

I suspect it will either be an ass-kicking by OKC, where we simply can’t break their defense, while SGA pick-and-rolls us to death, or else a close win by us, where KAT’s outside shooting and our overall strength and versatility on offense gives us just enough to slip by them.

But that’s why they play the games. You can’t predict basketball, Suzyn.

Fair enough Doogie. I will consider it national henceforth.

I’m more scared about SGA putting our entire team in foul trouble than I am about the OKC defense, to be honest, with KAT being as foul prone as he can be.

If we lose it’s fine, but I absolutely would love to cap this winning streak with a big win.

And would that be a good thing?

I’d be pretty worried if the Heat got Zion. I get that he’s been a physical disaster but I think a lot of that has to do with immaturity and just hating being a Pelican.

“If we lose it’s fine, but I absolutely would love to cap this winning streak with a big win.”

Why would we want to cap this winning streak at 10 games if we can push it further than that?

Doogie I don’t think someone making a quick post should have to announce that they are about to refer to an NCAA player. At least try Google before clogging up the board. Not going to be saying anything else about this.

We theoretically matchup somewhat well with OKC. I don’t see what choice they have but to defend KAT with iHart, which should dampen his rim protection. SGA is always going to get his, but we have the personnel to throw some different looks at him and make him work for it. Of course, he’s an absolute stud, so it’s quite possible he puts up an efficient 35 anyway.

Should be a meaningful test for Brunson. SGA is the type of defender who has given him some trouble in the past. I would absolutely spam the pick-and-roll with KAT to force switches and hard decisions.

Didn’t say they had to. Just said that it would have been nice/helpful/more clear.

I just finished my liquor run. So I am prepared for tonight. 🙂

The Knicksiest thing for them to do would be to win tonight or play a great game and lose on a buzzer beater and then get blown out in Chicago tomorrow because they are so tired from the effort tonight.

Really gonna need to hit some threes tonight. If not it will be over by halftime. Going to see Theo Parrish at nowadays so it’ll be a good night either way but it’d be far nicer dancing to celebrate than to sublimate.

I would be dancing for joy if the heat got Zion, Hubert. They won’t.

Whoever that is, wherever that is.

…

Happy New Year, Doogie. It’s gonna be a good one!

But that’s why they play the games. You can’t predict basketball, Suzyn.

I guess Doogie knows who Suzyn is, i had to google it. 😛 😉

Nowadays is a great venue but last time I was there they had separate entrances for under 26/26+ and it made me feel ancient.

I had a buddy once that would start almost every sentence off with the word: no…

it was crazy…

the sky is blue…no, it’s more like an aqua marine color…

stayed with him for a while, sure enough I picked up that same habit…

took me a while of very consciously trying not to always disagree with everything others said…

he was a good friend, he was just a very competitive person…

it was almost as hard to break as the habit of starting off almost every paragraph with the word: I…

i still have trouble with that one…I have to edit my posts just to try and minimize the number of times I say the word: I…

I’ll re-read some of the stuff I write here, and still be amazed how difficult it is for me not to do that…

The Knicksiest thing for them to do would be to win tonight or play a great game and lose on a buzzer beater and then get blown out in Chicago tomorrow because they are so tired from the effort tonight.

I’d much prefer this to the other possible outcomes, at least the probable ones.

26 is a very odd cut-off age that as far as I know does not come into play anywhere else. I still think it’s odd that there is an age 25 limit on renting vehicles.

I would like it very much if the Knicks were not down by 15 after the first quarter. Hitting threes would be nice…

I don’t know if we’ll win or lose tonight but I do know this. You can bet your ass Josh Hart is going to take this game VERY personally and will be wanting to hand iHart a big L for leaving us;.

Also, just occurred to me that Josh Hart is basically Jimmy Butler if Jimmy Butler had a sense of humor and didn’t take himself quite so seriously.

Both super intense, high effort dudes, two way players, etc…except Hart isn’t an asshole about it, at least not off the court.

Strat, since that potential outcome is something that would happen to any team facing one of the league’s best teams and then following up with a game the next night against a bad team, it isn’t the knickiest outcome.

Also, can we give that idea up? We aren’t knickiest anymore. That’s a term for drafting Knox and passing on Mikal Bridges. Or trading a bunch of picks and young players for an aging start only for them to have a season ending injury. I don’t really think “knickiest” should apply to simply winning or losing games against certain teams. Maybe in the day of fake comebacks but not now.

Jimmy Butler is a vastly superior player to Josh Hart, but now he may be declining (physically? Mentally? Both?) so I’m very glad that the latter guy is on our team and not the former. Probably not as glad as KAT, but still…

swifty feeling feisty today!

Nice Hart/Butler analogy, w&bc. I didn’t even see swifty post anything.

Google is your friend

It helped me unearth this anonymous review of The Usual Suspects, posted September 3rd in the Bathesda Free Press: I’ve seen it four times in the theater and still have no idea who Keyser Soze is. My girlfriend says it’s Kevin Spacey, but that doesn’t make sense because he plays a guy named Roger “Verbal” Kint in it. Also, Kaiser Soze has a name that is of Dutch-Afrikaans and Turkish descent, but according to his Encyclopedia Britanica entry, Kevin Spacey is from New Jersey. My girlfriend seems pretty sure about it though, to the point that she doesn’t even want to discuss it anymore. I think what makes her thinks
so is that Kevin Spacey and Keyser Soze have the same initials, which can be very confusing to people. In short, I give The Usual Suspects two thumbs down. Don’t waste your money. See Showgirls instead.

I’m not going to get too worked up about this game either way. I’m happy that we are finally playing an elite team at reasonably good health. I’d love to win and think we can, but it’s more of a data collection game than anything else. We haven’t been tested like this since the first week of the season, and a lot has changed since then. Still, OKC hasnt lost a home game since 11/17 so we have our work cut out for us.

Doogie off his meds again…

You would think tonight’s game will get a lot of national attention, 2 teams on major winning streaks and one of them from NY

But then again we are competing against the Duke’s Mayo Bowl on ESPN

Doogie should definitely leave the reviews to Alan…

I’ve always enjoyed watching Butler and even find his shtick a little funny at times, but at this point any team trading for him knows there’s unpleasantness coming down the pike at some point and you just have to hope he helps you win a championship before then.

He’s still talented enough that my guess is someone rolls the dice, and with a gun to my head I’d say the Warriors wash their hands of Kuminga’s dicey contract situation this way.

But I mean, this is truly an “if everyone you meet is an asshole…” situation.

Jimmy Butler is a vastly superior player to Josh Hart

Yeah I was more referring to their personalities, not levels of play. Although I’d argue RIGHT NOW in this moment, Josh is MAYBE the better player and I’d bet on him being better than Butler the next few years.

I’d like to win tonight if for no other reason since Thibs has gotten here we’ve had a couple of 9 game winning streaks but I don’t think we’ve yet to win 10 in a row (maybe we did in January last year?) That would be nice!

I don’t think the Knicks make a play for Butler but playing OKC tonight reminds me that the league is running out of time before the Thunder closes the championship window significantly for everyone.

You really can’t fuck with Showgirls tho. Classic.

“Doogie off his meds again…”
Never been on any meds in the past; not on any now. What in the heck did I do to deserve *that*? :-S

“Doogie should definitely leave the reviews to Alan…”
I think that I’ve always already done that. If I ever tried to review anything here (or anywhere, really), I’m not really sure why I would have done that, as I’m not a reviewer of any kind (except for writing, of course). I’ll do it now, though: Showgirls wasn’t classic anything, other than a classic shitty movie. Not sure why it was even randomly brought up.

I’d argue RIGHT NOW in this moment, Josh is MAYBE the better player and I’d bet on him being better than Butler the next few years.

that seems right…add in availability and i’d lean towards josh…

take in to account their contracts, most certainly…

before the Thunder closes the championship window significantly for everyone.

A few years ago people said the same thing about Philly. After that it was Memphis.

look, they’ve amassed a lot of talent and still have picks to fuck with. They’re positioned great. But shit happens. OKC at one point had Durant, Westrbook and Harden and they never got over the hump.

Just out of boredom I did the Jimmy/Josh b-ref comparison, and Jimmy scalded Josh on everything but rebounds (6.7 vs. 5.3 — for shame, Jimmy, you’re three inches taller!), 3P% (.347 vs .330), and interestingly, eFG% (.549 vs. .503).

Jimmy does have 6 All-Star teams, 5 All-Defense teams, and 5 All-NBA teams. Of course that was then…

@jledwardsiii.bsky.social‬
When asked about the Knicks possibly getting more than two All-Stars, Josh Hart propped up OG and Mikal. Then asked why not him: “I’m here to serve those guys. … I like to put my toes in sand in February.”

KAT overheard it and says: “Let’s ruin Josh’s All-Star break.”

I don’t imagine we’ll have more than KAT and Brunson on the team. But this is funny.

If Chet isn’t going to be consistently healthy, OKC might struggle to establish their dynasty. After Jalen & Shai it’s a pretty steep drop to their #3 option and they’ve underperformed on offense. While ranking 7th doesn’t sound bad, they’re over 5 ORtg pts worse than us, which stops them from being the runaway favorites they could be with the offense they showed last season.

Josh is easily the better teammate.

Lmao Donnie … perfection, including it going over head

That went over your head?

No notes on that movie review. None at all.

Jimmy is a better player than Josh and I wish whoever trades for him well….

I wish they would well, as well…….

I mean, to start, with Chet playing 10 games this season, they’re on pace to win 69 games and to have 3 top 20 picks in June. And that’s nowhere near the end of it…

It’s impossible to argue that OKC doesn’t have the possibility of a decade of dominance in front of them. So many tools to get there, and already in such a good position. But bear in mind that the double apron is built to limit that to some degree; even if they draft well (no guarantee), even if they have injury luck (no guarantee, especially with Chet), eventually they have to dance the same dance every team does. Once you pay your stars, you’re locked.

Again, not saying that their situation shouldn’t be the envy of the league – just that nothing is certain and they don’t have any trophies yet.

ha, doogie done dogged ya owen…

bet that occurance wasn’t on your daily events bingo card…

I can just go in and edit my comment so his will look like a real head scratcher….

Jimmy is definitely better, even now and almost certainly next year, but I’d rather have Josh at 20 million a year than Jimmy at 49 million a year.

that’s cheating owen…

oh man, I wish I could do that…auto correct does it’s own thing waaaay too much…

I am feeling a bit left out though, like an old bagel…

Speaking of bagels, Utopia bagels is really fucking tasty and the vibe of the Whitestone joint is copacetic af.

sorta dependant on others to get out the house and around other humans…wish you were much closer clarence, just on the oft chance you might let me tag along occasionally…ride in your wake of social connectedness…

hope all is well for you with home and work senor…

darules did that earlier with “I think his real name is Alfonso Bailiff” after he had originally typed “I think he’s real name is Alfonso Bailiff,” but it didn’t make me any less correct. 🙂

Whitestone blah blah blah.

Happy New Year, Geo!!! I’ll be out West in a couple months. Let’s go get some tacos.

Why do I feel that that is very unlikely to occur? 🙂

YES!!!

This is the 4th time Knicks have a 9 game winning streak under Thibs but it has never reached 10 games. Last double digit winning streak was the epic 13 game winning streak at the end of the 54 win Melo season which included towards the end of the streak a great win at OKC so hopefully history repeats itself tonight.

Nowadays is a fun spot–especially when there’s a maestro like Theo Parrish playing. You may very well have run into my brother there at some point, Clarence (he’s a frequent visitor.)

By the way, I’m visiting a university in the NYC area for the Spring semester and will be living in the UWS for 4 or 5 months. I am pretty much always down to meet up for a Knicks game, so if anyone ever gets the itch to meet a guy you know solely from the internet, just say so here and we can coordinate.

Extremely excited for the game tonight–I’ve cleared my calendar for Friday night. Really hope Brunson is healthy so we get a real NBA finals in miniature.

Time to change your moniker to Downer Doogie Brown…

if the warriors trade for jimmy donnie’s going to have to sell his nordic track for three months of league pass.

devin carter debuts tonight. will take more than a rookie to light the beam this year but really
like him as a prospect.

keep hoping to see the full strength raptors for the time now that iq is finally back but rj has been oddly sidelined with an illness that’s over two weeks in.

note that when okc played indy last week ihart played the first possession or two against turner but then guarded siakam the rest of the way with jalen williams often marking myles.

just know it’s not necessarily a safe space for
beer choices

“Time to change your moniker to Downer Doogie Brown…”

Nice one, Raven! 🙂

Yeah, Neemas could have been nice. And what’s it going to take to get Naz Reid over here?

Alecto, I’m from the UWS and am similarly always down for Knicks + beers. Let’s make it happen.

The Knicks and Thunder are an intellectually compelling pair because they represent very high percentile outcomes for their respective team building strategies.

Leon, much to my surprise, has executed the hybrid method (i.e. building a contender without ever tanking) to a tee. There have been missteps and I have pointed them out, but the results speak for themselves (with much still TBD, of course).

This Thunder team has nailed the kind of tanking/asset accumulation/whatever you want to call it strategy there’s a proud Knickerblogger tradition of calling for better than any team maybe ever, with the lone possible exception being the OKC team of yore.

The fact that OKC is presently probably a little better than us and still has assets to fire off speaks to the general superiority of their strategy, IMHO. I don’t say this as a critique of Leon–I find it quite impressive that he assembled a team as good as this one while employing a suboptimal strategy, and have my doubts as to whether a down-to-the-studs rebuild was ever even an option for him.

Still, as others have pointed out prime long-term positioning hardly guarantees even one title, and all contenders are always one disgruntled star away from imploding.

All this to say, should be a good game tonight fellas.

Here is someone new that we haven’t talked about: Christian Koloko.

Edmond Sumner Award candidate for tonight: Ajay Mitchell.

The key to the OKC rebuild was starting out with Russ & PG on the roster, it wasn’t an option for us. Maybe we could’ve done something similar to Houston or Orlando, who are hardly in a bad spot, but I don’t think we could’ve accumulated that much draft capital even with a full rebuild.

“Again, not saying that their situation shouldn’t be the envy of the league – just that nothing is certain and they don’t have any trophies yet.”

Sure the future isn’t written yet and it can be damn hard to win a title.

“The key to the OKC rebuild was starting out with Russ & PG on the roster, it wasn’t an option for us.”

Sam Presti is very talented but even he must be a bit surprise with how good that PG trade was. Woof.

Donnie with a reference to the reason of my moniker (Keyser Soze). And a hilarious one. Thank you for it! 😉 😀

but I don’t think we could’ve accumulated that much draft capital even with a full rebuild.

And that’s the thing. They were able to hoist PG to The Clippers for 5 FIRST ROUND PICKS and SHAI (plus Gallinari and 2 pick swaps).

I mean, the cornerstone of their franchise wasn’t someone they drafted. It was someone they traded for in that trade!

So it wasn’t really a TANK like the Process style. And that type of PG trade is EXTREMELY RARE. You have to find a team desperate enough to do it. It was an extreme situation as The Clippers could only get Kawhi if they also got PG.

They also traded CP3 to the Suns for 4 players and another pick. Not quite the same haul but still.

There was literally no one on our roster that we could have done a similar trade to get that kind of haul.

Mills and Perry did trade their franchise player (KP) for 2 first round picks. That was our equivalent of the PG trade, lol.

Otherwise – at one point we traded Melo for a 2nd round pick that turned into Mitch.

We traded Morris for a pick that got us IQ. Also a Perry move.

So Perry actually did those kind of tear down to the studs trades it’s just the house we had built wasn’t that nice so the spare parts weren’t really worth that much, lol.

The moment to do the kind of tear down to the studs rebuild OKC did was after the season following the 54 win season when Phil took over. He traded Chandler but it was a pretty weak trade. Probably could have gotten more than he did. But then he mega-Maxed Melo when trading him to The Bulls was on the table.

But once the mega max no trade clause Melo contract was signed, we missed our moment to do the kind of tear down to the studs rebuild that OKC did.

Nice hike on your name’s link, Geo. That is exactly what i do on one of the two days of the weekend, mostly on the mountains around here, but sometimes we take the car and go to some trail far from here, although always at 1 or 2 hours drive tops.

Phil Jackson didn’t come here to do a proper rebuild. He came here to prove that he was smarter than everybody else, and that his way of playing basketball was better than everybody else’s. He thought he could take whatever collection of schmoes he thought represented triangularity, and then triangle up the other players that weren’t adequately triangley enough.

It was hubris and arrogance on an epic scale, and it blew up in his mustachioed face. It didn’t goink well at all.

“The fact that OKC is presently probably a little better than us and still has assets to fire off speaks to the general superiority of their strategy, IMHO. I don’t say this as a critique of Leon–I find it quite impressive that he assembled a team as good as this one while employing a suboptimal strategy, and have my doubts as to whether a down-to-the-studs rebuild was ever even an option for him.”

THCJ, I appreciate that you have come full circle on Leon (sort of) but I take issue with this statement. Here’s why:

OKC started its rebuild while they were still in Seattle. Presti was hired 3 weeks before the 2007 draft, and they finished in 5th lottery position and move up 3 spots. Presti drafted a top-15 player of all time. The following year they tanked, and slipped from 2 to 4 in the draft lottery, where they picked up future MVP Russell Westbrook. Then they tanked again and drafted future MVP James Harden after moving up one spot to number 3.

What’s important here is that this run of drafting is unprecedented. If you look at those drafts, the players drafted above and below them are not on that level, Everything that has happened since then is a result of feeding off of that run of drafting excellence. I don’t know how much was luck and how much was skill, but given all of his moves in total, seems like Presti’s success is less about methodology and more about his outstanding player valuation skills. He’s made some critical blunders along the way, and as a result, his team has had one finals appearance and zero championships in the 18 years that he’s been in charge. His current rebuild is largely built on the spoils of the Paul George and Russell Westbrook trades, and other than Chet, picking players outside the top of the lottery.

Meanwhile, the Suns and Sixers have drafted in the high lottery numerous times and also have little to show for it to conclude that the method is inherently superior…and that’s before the leveling of the odds.

Even so, OKC fans must be pretty itchy to get back to the finals, being that it’s coming up on 18 years since Presti has been in charge. Maybe if Leon gets an 18-year grace period he’ll fare just as well. Unlike Presti, who hit all-time grand slams 3 consecutive years, the first thing Leon did was pick Obi over Hali. Then there are the other suboptimal moves that set back Leon’s hybrid rebuild. Thankfully, he has more than made up for it in stealing Brunson and KAT, getting great value for Randle, RJ, and IQ, and managing the cap to stay under the second apron. There was a lot more upside to the method.

My point is, Presti’s method probably worked better because he was the one executing it. Presti is better than Leon, and might be the best there is, so it’s not fair to compare. It would be more useful to compare Leon to either other hybridders like Riley or less enlightened tankers than Presti…take your pick.

THCJ, I appreciate that you have come full circle

zman always tries to see the best in people but even geo knows that only a one eyed man assumes that all nfhs are hcs

DOOGIE THIS POST IS ABOUT PROFESSIONAL AMERICAN BASEBALL:

Dodgers now sign that Korean infielder Hyeseong Kim… I don’t even watch baseball, but a Dodgers dynasty would be incredibly annoying.

LOL

Kim is a banjo hitter and looks like a utility infielder in MLB to me. He’s not going to be the thing that makes the Dodgers a dynasty.

right about that milo, and the truth can sure be scary stuff to some…

sadly, the bar i set for my fellow spinning blue ball inhabitants – is that we are simply not looking at each other as a food source…

yeah, this gta stuff is jading me at the moment…

edit: oh, and you already know I have no idea what you’re talking about milo…as a matter of fact, I think I enjoy things more that way…

heck, leave it all up to personal experiences and perspective…kind of like how folks get music, it simply means what it means to you…

Cavs get to play the Mavs tonight in Dallas without Luka and Kyrie.

Face humping involves cocks and jowles, so it’s a forgivable mistake.

I’m looking forward to tonight’s contest. I expect our ball movement to generate a lot of open looks for Hart and maybe OG. If they can convert, we will have a shot. We have to limit turnovers. They are not that great in the halfcourt offensively. LGK!

ThEmBeKBe… you’ve got great taste. Sounds like your brother does too. Taken a minute to find the people we wanna dance with in town. Good Room around the corner is pretty dope. Was dancing on New Year’s Day not more than five feet from Ultra Naté. Gave me the chills.

I actually did google nfh and nfhs and still don’t know what it means.

Jimmy Butler suspended seven games by the Heat for conduct detrimental to the team.

Let’s definitely get that guy! Seems like there’s no possible way that could go wrong

Kim is a banjo hitter and looks like a utility infielder in MLB to me.

Apparently he’s a Gold Glove-level fielder, and I hate seeing them nab an end-of-game defensive bench piece.

i want jimmy butler to stay a member of the heat so bad…

pat riley is gonna dare him to pick up that option…

Competitive game so far—we were clearly looking forward to this one. Refreshing to see a competent first quarter *knocks on wood*

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