2020-21 Game Thread: Knicks @ Celtics

The Knicks head to Boston to play the Celtics, as the Boston squad is depleted due to injuries and COVID.

Kemba Walker miiiiiight return from injury today. We shall see.

The Knicks have lost five straight and the Celtics have won five straight. Let’s hope that both streaks end today.

Let’s go, streak breaking Knicks!

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372 thoughts to “2020-21 Game Thread: Knicks @ Celtics”

  1. Oddly, with the injuries/COVID situation, I think we match up very well with the C’s if RJ and Quick play well and everyone else plays to their mean.

  2. No Tacko Fall, it seemed appropiate that he would have a great game against us and our lack of outside shooting.

    I hope Thibs gives Obi more minutes tonight than last game.

  3. who are these fucking homer announcers…is that the dirtbag Scalabrine?

    said mitch is awful at defense…go at him all night long..

    I am turning off the sound.. can’t listen to these assholes…

  4. I have to listen to NBA TV which is carrying the Celtics announcers.
    Fuckers just said, “contrary to popular belief, I think Mitchell Robinson is a terrible defensive player.”
    Says they should run pick and rolls at him over and over and he won’t know what to do.

    …FTG.

  5. I’m on the Celtics broadcast, and they are saying that Mitch is a bad defender and “you can go with pick’n’rolls against him all game”. I don’t agree with them.

  6. It’s outrageous, right? We all reacted to that! At least now we’re all more awake for the game! :D

  7. These fuckers are such homers.
    Every 50/50 they act like the Celtics got screwed. Randle got fouled shooting and they’re like oh that was in the floor. Whatever

  8. Mitch should sometimes learn to do the basketball equivalent of jogging to first on a groundball to the shortstop.

  9. he might’ve just got the wind knocked out of him… if he didn’t dislocate his shoulder which it doesn’t look like it is…

  10. I’d like to review Mitch’s fall,
    to me it looks like Teague ducked to protect himself, but stays in his space, while Mitch jumped forward.

    But I only watched a quick replay, I could be wrong.

  11. Z-man: That really wasn’t Teague’s fault

    Agreed. At first i get mad when other team’s players injure our guys. But there was really nothing he could have done.

  12. turned the sound off…much better without those horrible announcers…shit…Johnny most and heinsohn were better than that…

  13. Knox with a tough rebound is nice to see.

    There’s a place for Quickley’s floater but he goes to it waaaaay too often.

  14. If this team could hit bunnies they’d be slightly better than they are now. Generating a lot of turnovers, something to be happy about.

  15. Pull Mitch out, for fuck’s sake. Is Taj with the team yet? It’s unconscionable either way.

  16. When Obi builds up his lower body those moves will work. He got shoved to the baseline and stepped out because he has no base.

  17. Watching Obi try to play offense, I’m shocked how awful he looks considering his offensive statistical profile in college. He looks like he has no clue.

  18. Hoping for more Mitch minutes turning into a monkey’s paw curls situation under Thibs was predictable

  19. Quickley is clearly reading our complaints about his floater. It’s such a weird looking shot though.

  20. i don’t know why thibs is so hesitant to play mitch big minutes and he’s out there now and obv hurt…

  21. What’s the German word for when you come to make a comment and you see that Dred already made it

  22. I don’t know if he can hit that with any regularity, but that floater makes Quickley so hard to defend on the P&R with Mitch.

  23. Did anyone notice that defensive rotation where Brown had Quickley isolated down low and RJ switched seamlessly to blow up the mismatch? That was beautiful.

  24. It’s a nice shot to have in the arsenal, he tends to use it too much (and from too far).
    He has a soft zone around 5-8 feet where he’s automatic, the longer ones I’m not too fond of…
    But he could use it as a fake to alley-hoop the bigs and that’s good.

  25. So the algorithm says we have an 80% chance of winning this game.

    Of course, it helps that Boston is on pace to score 70 total. Over-under on that?

  26. IQ hit a ton of what looked like lucky shots.

    There were a few where he seemed like wanted to throw a lob and the jist hoisted it at the rim at the last second.

    But they went in today

  27. What IQ is doing that I love is breaking down the defense and getting into the paint. It opens things up for everyone else.

  28. d-mar:
    What IQ is doing that I love is breaking down the defense and getting into the paint. It opens things up for everyone else.

    Exactly. Now imagine if we had good shooters around the 3P line.

  29. Early Bird:
    Not watching today, how did Obi score?

    On a pretty left-to-right slash down the lane and on an alley-oop from the left dunker’s spot…

  30. that was a really nice possession… rj drive… payton in the corner quick pass to randle … not settling and driving then kicking it out for a much better corner 3…

  31. Z-man: On a pretty left-to-right slash down the lane and on an alley-oop from the left dunker’s spot…

    Thanks z-man!

  32. Invisible Sixth Man gunning for the game ball on this one. Celts shooting 30% overall, 16% from three…

  33. Even the Celtics announcers are asking why IQ isn’t starting games.

    Does it count as an appeal to authority when the ‘authority’ is objectively stupid? I feel like there should be a specific term for that. Like citing Kyrie on geography.

  34. Knicks with 98% chance of winning the game, Celts on track to score 61.

    I am so living in the moment these days…

  35. I’m not watching today. Did Obi’s shot look good this time, or like another moon ball that just went in?

  36. Alan:
    I’m not watching today. Did Obi’s shot look good this time, or like another moon ball that just went in?

    Looked good

  37. It’s good that Tom Thibodeau recognizes that Mitchell Robinson is really good at basketball, but it’s bad that this conclusion leads him to play Mitchell Robinson with an obvious injury when we are up 25

  38. Please explain to me why Thibs put Randle in? Um, we’re playing again in less than 24 hours

  39. I’d forgotten how much the Celtics color guy sounds like Jesse Ventura. I keep expecting him to refer to the play-by-play guy as “McMahon.”

  40. We are up 25, have a game tomorrow, and 4/5 starters are in plus the guy everyone thinks should be a starter

  41. Invisible Sixth Man gunning for the game ball on this one. Celts shooting 30% overall, 16% from three…

    yeah, this most definitely raven…I don’t care though…

    I think they mentioned it being thibs’ birthday, good job knicks’ players :)

    why are any of the starters from either team still out there?

  42. Why are the refs not calling fouls on the Celtics for playing way more aggressive defense than we’re playing?

  43. geo…thought you were staying away….”just when I thought I was out…they pulled me back in again “

  44. Good learning experience for IQ been hounded by Smart, he’s such a good defender (remember when he ate Porzingis for breakfast?)

  45. toppin is poppin

    I like that…dude seems allergic to stepping in to the piant though – he ain’t got know post game?

  46. So the Knicks are crushing the Celtics, and they selected the return of Kemba as the moment of the game!?!?

  47. Easy guys, no one has even played 30 minutes yet…

    You’re allowed to play guys fewer minutes than usual when you are up 30 on the first game of a back to back (with your best player clearly hobbling)!

  48. I think thibs is using this time like a practice session…to get these five guys (IQ at the point) time together…

  49. Funny, I just tried to leave a comment that simply said “DSjr” and it went into moderation….that says it all

  50. geo:
    I think thibs is using this time like a practice session…to get these five guys (IQ at the point) time together…

    Macri suggested the same thing on Twitter: this is Thibs figuring out how the other starters play with IQ at the point.

  51. Beating the Celtics by this much feels good, don’t get me wrong, but it doesn’t feel quite as good as it should….

  52. I am going to savor these final few minutes, and – simply exhale…

    Edit: oops, almost forgot the whole inhale part of the process…

  53. I truly have no clue what to do with DSJ. This is just not the guy I saw in college, or even in his initial half-season stint with the Knicks. It’s sad.

  54. so, those of you who like watching film – does obi have a back to the basket post game?

    bigger question – is that a useful skill still?

  55. thenoblefacehumper:
    I truly have no clue what to do with DSJ. This is just not the guy I saw in college, or even in his initial half-season stint with the Knicks. It’s sad.

    The answer is simple. Do exactly what we’re doing unless a roster spot is needed. He has less than zero market value.

  56. Obi has some potential. He’s a long, athletic big who can maybe shoot 3’s and slash. His D is a major question mark but doesn’t look hopeless. He can handle it a bit and might be good in mismatches in the post if he can build up his lower body a bit.

  57. cybersoze:
    Over/Under for final margin at 30. I’m taking the over. ;)

    Of course i meant 30.5 and DSJ did all he could to make me lose the bet. What an annoying guy.

  58. I mean, I’d still like Hali over him but it’s really too early to call. At the very least, he looks fun to root for.

  59. Weird thing is just by watching them play it looks like IQ was the 8th pick in the draft and Obi is the late 1st rd project draft pick.

  60. Z-man:
    Obi has some potential. He’s a long, athletic big who can maybe shoot 3’s and slash. His D is a major question mark but doesn’t look hopeless. He can handle it a bit and might be good in mismatches in the post if he can build up his lower body a bit.

    He seems to rebound well, and did a block from behind. His D is a work in progress, maybe he becomes an average defender.

  61. If the refs give IQ those Harden/Williams foul calls he’s adept at drawing his game will excel to another level.

  62. Nice win, when RJ is hitting shots the game is easier for everyone. The Celtics were sloppy in the first half and missed many shots in the 2nd, there was certain luck in that, but I am pretty sure that having the size advantage with Noel, Mitch and Randle helped a lot.

    Special mention for IQ as being a great PG tonight, hitting shots and distributing the ball. Not sure if those floaters are sustainable, but he is just a rookie with a lot of room to grow and it is really encouraging.

  63. Overall it was a very good game, the kids played well, and as it was good to stop the losing streak, even better playing the Celtics and limiting them to 75 pts. Enjoy the rest of the day, guys, this is a happy one. :)

  64. So the Celtics were a flaming shitfire, but the same team minus Kemba scored 124 and beat Orlando by 27.

    With this premise, beating the Celtics is always fun, this was a good team effort and you can only play who the schedule dictates.

    Third solid game in a row for Barrett, a prolonged Obi sighting, IQ cooking, Randle just being Randle and the management of Mitch’s injury is unbelievably bad.

    Thoughts from the garbage time: DSJ is totally broken, Iggy is not close to be an NBA player (I’m sorry for that) and probably we can do better with a 2-way spot than use it on Pinson…

    Good win, let’s get ready for tomorrow matinee.

  65. Again, Mitch doesn’t really have an “injury.” It’s kind of like a knee-to-the-thigh thing, rest doesn’t affect the timetable for healing or risk greater injury. He’s fine.

  66. I had business to take care of today and missed the game. OMG, what the hell happened? I can see Boston shot poorly, but it looks like virtually every Knick had a great game. Baby steps!

  67. Good points all, Max. Our end-of-bench fillers are clearly not actual NBA players. We may want to recycle, I don’t think we can do worse.

    Not sure if this is the Obi Game, but it was nice to see an NBA player in there. It’ll probably be 2 years before we really know what we have.

    Barrett still runs wildly hot and cold throughout each game, it seems. As in every five minutes it’s a different Barrett. But he’s young… Fingers crossed for eventual consistency landing on the ‘Good Barrett’ persona.

  68. Also, 38.7% from three for us (compared to 15.2% for them). Go I6M!

    And 81% from the line for us (compared to 62%).

  69. It shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone that Quickley can shoot. But there’s so much to his game that is sort of surprising:
    1) His size. Some characterized him as “small” but he really doesn’t look small like, say, Prichard…nor does he play small. He really went at it with Smart.
    2) His defensive tenacity. He is constantly moving and harassing for 84 feet.
    3) His penetration. He has a knack for getting into the paint and making good things happen.
    4) His confidence and maturity. He plays like he has no doubt that he belongs. He didn’t let those 3 bad games affect his confidence.
    5) His passing. He’s starting to pile up assists without a lot of turnovers.
    6) His ball-handling. No one will confuse him with Dame or Kyrie, but he seems to know how to keep his dribble or dump it off before getting into trouble. No one really expected that he could handle primary ball-handling responsibility at the NBA level. Except him.

  70. Z-man:
    Again, Mitch doesn’t really have an “injury.” It’s kind of like a knee-to-the-thigh thing, rest doesn’t affect the timetable for healing or risk greater injury. He’s fine.

    He’s in the injury report: Probable – Mitchell Robinson (contused right heel)

    So for me he’s injured albeit lightly.

    He took a bad fall, limped on the court many times, was still on the court up by 25 with a back-to-back looming.

    He’s fine? I hope so, but I stand my case and I’ll be happy to be wrong.

  71. KP with a 3-10 line at the half, with 2 rebounds. Doncic has 30-7-5 through two quarters and the Mavs are somehow losing by 15. To the Bulls!

  72. IQ definitely needs to improve his handle to be a full time point guard. Any time he’s pressured it’s an adventure. And he’s going to have to show that he can handle in the paint- he either goes to the floater or passes almost immediately and sometimes you need to take another dribble or two to make the right play. That said, he hasn’t turned it over much and he makes basic reads at a better than combo guard level. And he can shoot so he’ll be starting sooner or later.

  73. Thibs has made this Knick team a fun team to watch, a hard working team to root for. What a win today!

    Im just hoping that Alec Burk can return for tomorrow’s game, and Rivers to redeem himself. Everyone continues to play solid defense, be disciplined and patient on offense, passes the ball around to get good shots. Win or lose tomorrow just let the chips fall

  74. Z-man:
    I’ve hated DSjr’s body language from day 1. He sucks, simple as that. Total bust.

    He’s not as bad he looks, but he’s BAD.

    Sometimes you can see the problems very early. The player’s basketball IQ, decision making, and attitude are all apparent fairly “quickley”. You just know that even with a lot of talent he’s unlikely to amount to much. I knew it. Dallas knew it. Anyone that knows the game that was paying attention knew it right away. He’s not hopeless, but he’s never going be the guy we want at PG.

    You can sometimes see the same thing in reverse. A player can be way more limited, but you know they are going to figure out a way to productive if you are patient. I feel that way about Barrett and STILL feel that way about Frank if he could ever overcomes the injury issues that are holding back his development. I even feel it with Obi even though I’m on yellow alert with him because he’s older. I’m thrilled that he looked good today.

  75. You certainly expect IQ to shoot well, but you never know when it comes to players adjusting to the NBA speed, length, and farther 3pt line.

    FWIW, IQ projects to be the 3rd best shooter of players from this year’s draft that I looked at behind only Nesmith and Terry. But if you limit IQ’s numbers to his excellent sophomore season then he’s the number 1 shooter in the draft projected at .389 (.379 including freshman & sophomore years).

  76. marechal:
    KP with a 3-10 line at the half, with 2 rebounds. Doncic has 30-7-5 through two quarters and the Mavs are somehow losing by 15. To the Bulls!

    My hope is that KP is working as a covert tanking agent on the Mavs!

  77. IQ’s shot though is fugly…

    that floater leaves from around his neck , his 3 pointer looks like some kind of two-handed chest pass…

    he’s got a flatter shot than elf, that’s not good…

  78. Those floaters IQ takes aren’t as bad as many make them seem. He practices them a lot and seems to be very effective with them whenever he’s shooting them around the FT line or within the paint. The true “point guard” thing is something of a misnomer to me because of the offense we run anyway. But, yes, he can work on maintaining his dribble more so he doesn’t have to give up the ball so quickly when pressured. Though I maintain a big part of his game is the fact that seeks contact and pressure for the foul call so it’s a real balancing act for him right now.

  79. it looks like obi and kevin are getting the same exact coaching to do the same exact stuff out on the court…

    neither of them work from the block like randle…

  80. No shock that KP is off to bad start. It’s not like I didn’t tell everyone it was a mortal lock he would start badly given he didn’t play at all in the offseason and had no camp. I’m sure Dallas is way more worried about his legs and knees than his shot. He’ll be fine for the 2nd half of the season run if he’s healthy.

    They targeted this year as the year they could make a playoff run, but they need to add another player before the deadline or they are not going to be good enough to scare the best teams.

    They need a lockdown 3&d defender and could probably use a better 3rd option than Hardaway who should be a scorer off the bench.

  81. Again, Mitch doesn’t really have an “injury.” It’s kind of like a knee-to-the-thigh thing, rest doesn’t affect the timetable for healing or risk greater injury. He’s fine.

    With all the necessary caveats about me not being a doctor, I am pretty damn sure having to adjust your gait, weigh distribution, etc. to account for a minor injury increases the likelihood of a more serious injury even if the latter is technically “unrelated” to the former.

    Thibs minute distribution denialism is untenable at this point. You can like the job the guy has done (there are aspects of his tenure I like, such as not being shy about playing the kids) and still acknowledge he hasn’t shaken this bad coaching habit he’s always had.

  82. Burks will mean RJ probably goes back to around 30-32. And Obi is going cut into Randle’s minutes. Playing an injured Mitch is crazy though.

  83. Playing Mitch excess minutes today seems weird unless we’re planning on sitting him tomorrow. It’s probably not the worst thing in the world, but the problem is that the minutes add up. 5 minutes here and there becomes hundreds by season’s end. Maybe it’s fine, but maybe someone gets injured that we don’t want getting injured.

    It’s the proverbial season ending injury by a thousand paper cuts.

  84. Yeah, what TNFH said. You don’t want a guy out there favoring a bruised heel. It can lead to other injuries.

    But maybe that’s just me being soft

  85. I just don’t think that if there was any chance that the injury could be aggravated or if there was any serious risk of a related injury that they would keep playing him. They were patient with Quickley, Obi, Burks, Frank, Noel, and Bullock…why wouldn’t they be patient with him?

    Again, a contusion is a fancy word for a bruise. You don’t hold guys out with bruises unless there is an impact on healing or play. Most guys are banged up as the season goes on and play through minor things like this.

  86. My timezone didn’t agree with today’s start time, so missed the game. I will say it is nice to start your Monday morning waking up to see the Knicks trashed the Celtics by 30, so week off to a good start.

  87. Markkanen always keeps his best games for Porzingis.

    Despite the worst game of the season for Levine, nice loss for Dallas, keep up the good work guys we’d like a pick in the teens…

  88. I just don’t think that if there was any chance that the injury could be aggravated or if there was any serious risk of a related injury that they would keep playing him.

    The coach has a well-documented record of playing guys more than he should. We can use Occam’s Razor here.

    Again, a contusion is a fancy word for a bruise

    Who am I to believe, you or my lyin’ eyes that saw Mitchell Robinson limping multiple times?

  89. At 6-6, the Mavs are in a 5-way tie for 7th place in the West. What a war of attrition it will be out there!

  90. Sixers-Thunders postponed. Contract tracing left the Sixers without enough players.

    So things are going great in the NBA overall…

  91. thenoblefacehumper: The coach has a well-documented record of playing guys more than he should. We can use Occam’s Razor here.

    Who am I to believe, you or my lyin’ eyes that saw Mitchell Robinson limping multiple times?

    Whatever, you keep right on micro-analyzing everything Thibs does out top support your preconceived narrative about him. Do you actually think he’s ignoring his medical staff? It’s so petty to assume that his staff doesn’t know how to manage players and injuries. Again, how do you explain the six guys I brought up? Let me answer for you…you can’t. Guys play through little shit like this across the NBA all the time, and trust their medical staffs to determine whether guys can safely go or not. It’s not a Thibs thing in this case.

  92. I’m with Z-man on this. If Mitch was too injured to play he would not be allowed to play by the medical staff. If he is allowed to play than Thibs should be able to play him his usual minutes.

  93. BigBlueAL:
    I’m with Z-man on this.If Mitch was too injured to play he would not be allowed to play by the medical staff.If he is allowed to play than Thibs should be able to play him his usual minutes.

    Yeah, all 24 of them…

  94. mitch was writhing on teh floor for a whole possession….. with no timeout called or anyone fouling to get him off… was visibily limping even after another dead ball once he got up and wasn’t taken out until a full minute later….

    i wouldn’t really trust anyone’s judgement who would allow that to happen….. there’s just no excuse…. you don’t have to be a doctor to be concerned about someone’s well being…. let alone evaluate their fitness to play….

  95. Worrying about medical staff’s integrity shows pessimism’s naked ass in all its glory!
    ;-P

  96. Whatever, you keep right on micro-analyzing everything Thibs does out top support your preconceived narrative about him. Do you actually think he’s ignoring his medical staff? It’s so petty to assume that his staff doesn’t know how to manage players and injuries. Again, how do you explain the six guys I brought up? Let me answer for you…you can’t. Guys play through little shit like this across the NBA all the time, and trust their medical staffs to determine whether guys can safely go or not. It’s not a Thibs thing in this case.

    I don’t think “we should rest our best player, who plays the position at which we have the most depth, when we are winning by 25 and he is clearly less than 100%” is a controversial position among anyone who isn’t dedicated to refuting the idea that Thibs has issues with minutes management despite mountains of evidence. Thibs is the one supporting the preconceived narrative about him, actually.

    I am aware that guys sometimes play through injuries and am suggesting there are contexts in which it is unwise to ask them to do so!

  97. Why is Taj Gibson on the roster if he’s not going to play 7 minutes during a blowout when Mitch is obviously not 100%?

  98. Thibs risking to fuck up his starting/best center in an almost won game don’t seem very persuasive to me.

  99. i mean this shit happened twice also last year with fizdale… and nobody was appealing to authority there…. we all unanimously blasted fiz for it also…

    why is it being excused now?

  100. Knicks just won by 30 pts at the team with the best record in the East with all their young players playing great and people here are complaining about Thibs playing Mitch a whopping 24 minutes because apparently they are smarter than the medical staff. JFC

  101. Despite being an eyetest worshipper I’d say that judging injuries by eyetest don’t seem very accurate.
    Unless your eyes are looking at XRays Results and you’ve been graduated from medical school…

  102. I’m less upset with Mitch’s minutes and more perplexed that Thibs left Randle in until there was 4;53 left in the game and the Knicks were +up 32 points. Made zero sense.

  103. djphan: i wouldn’t really trust anyone’s judgement who would allow that to happen….. there’s just no excuse

    Sure, let’s trust the judgment of a fan watching on TV who doesn’t have the faintest fucking idea of what he is talking about and has zero skin in the game over professional doctors, trainers and coaches whose careers are riding on these decisions. Sure, you know better than them.

    I mean really, how fucking arrogant can we get get?

  104. Owen:
    “because apparently they *have always been* smarter than the medical staff.“

    Fixed

    You’re better than this, Owen.

  105. Z-man: Sure, let’s trust the judgment of a fan watching on TV who doesn’t have the faintest fucking idea of what he is talking about and has zero skin in the game over professional doctors, trainers and coaches whose careers are riding on these decisions. Sure, you know better than them.

    I mean really, how fucking arrogant can we get get?

    Considering that we auto-proclamed ourselves “Right 95% of the time evaluating players”, when in our past we fell in love with players like Willie HernanKareemGomez (who for at least one of the KBloggers should have won the ROY instead of Brogdon), the currently unemployed Kyle O’Quinn, the current G-Leaguer Lonzo Trier and that we already put Mitch Robinson in the HOF?

    We could be A LOT arrogant

    :-D

  106. Z-man – I am obviously joking. But there is no effing reason for Mitch to be playing if he is limping and jumping at half power.

    And no one ever liked Wily more than Brogdom.

    And no one was particularly crazy about Trier. But he can clearly score and it was big mystery why the coaches hated him so much. A mystery which hasn’t been solved.

  107. BTW, Noel was on the injury report for this game with a sore lower back and is still recovering from a sore ankle. And Taj wasn’t even put in for garbage time, suggesting that he isn’t ready to play yet. So I don’t know where the notion that the 5 is “the position where we have the most depth” comes from…

  108. Z-man: Sure, let’s trust the judgment of a fan watching on TV who doesn’t have the faintest fucking idea of what he is talking about and has zero skin in the game over professional doctors, trainers and coaches whose careers are riding on these decisions. Sure, you know better than them.

    I mean really, how fucking arrogant can we get get?

    What was the point of Mitch playing in the second half against Cleveland when he was visibly limping and Drummond was killing him anyway? Mitch’s game is 90% athleticism- his legs should be insured. He’s never been a malingerer- he doesn’t exaggerate injuries. If he’s limping 1/2 an hour (in real time) after the injury occurred why force him to play through it?

  109. nicos: What was the point of Mitch playing in the second half against Cleveland when he was visibly limping and Drummond was killing him anyway? Mitch’s game is 90% athleticism- his legs should be insured. He’s never been a malingerer- he doesn’t exaggerate injuries. If he’s limping 1/2 an hour (in real time) after the injury occurred why force him to play through it?

    Wait, you really think they were “forcing” him to play?!

  110. Owen:
    Players are macho about playing through pain. Which is dumb.

    Coaches shouldn’t let them

    I agree, but only to the point where the injury is evaluated and thought to be one that would be aggravated by playing further. That is clearly not the case here. People bitched about him playing in the Cleveland game, and yet he was ready to go today. My guess is that he’ll be ready to go tomorrow. If he isn’t, he will be rested.

    There’s so much to legitimately second-guess the coaching staff about…lineups, play calls, etc. But none of us know the first thing about injury management at the NBA level. Again, players on all 30 teams play through minor injuries like every game. It’s really not a big deal.

  111. #Players are macho about playing through pain. Which is dumb.#

    Nba players are professionals.
    Why risk getting severely injured and lose money? Especially on a contract year?

    And why team doctors let them play and risk losing their job?

    And why coaches ignore doctors and risk losing their players? Physically and Mentally since their players won’t trust them anymore.

    We’re not in the Nba Finals to risk with a cause.
    We’re at the 14th game of the covid reg. Season. Chill…

  112. BigBlueAL: Andy Reid has some big marbles.

    Actually, I think he lost his fucking marbles at the end of that game. Talk about a play in which a fortunate outcome papered over a really poor decision.

    A punt on fourth and inches would have forced CLE to drive at least 80 yards for a TD in under a minute, with no timeouts, no possibility for the running game, or even the threat of one to set up the play action that is such a big part of the Browns passing offense. The likelihood of success in that situation would have been extremely small – certainly orders of magnitude smaller than it would have been had Reid’s gamble failed and Baker & Co. were able to take over at midfield. A 50 yard TD drive would still have been very doable at that point. Reid’s decision left open that possibility whereas a punt would have almost certainly resulted in the same outcome (icing the game) as his silly gamble but without anywhere near the same level of risk.

  113. Can we all agree that we were a Good Team today or shall we credit this wire to wire on the road easy Win to the invisible 6th man?!!!

  114. Sure, let’s trust the judgment of a fan watching on TV who doesn’t have the faintest fucking idea of what he is talking about and has zero skin in the game over professional doctors, trainers and coaches whose careers are riding on these decisions. Sure, you know better than them.

    I mean really, how fucking arrogant can we get get?

    um… it doesn’t take much judgement to acknowledge that your player is on the ground and maybe call a timeout or get someone to foul them instead of going a full minute without even acknowledging them…. and then allow them to limp around for a few more possessions….

    THEN IT HAPPENS AGAIN!

    that happened… no other team allows that to happen… james borrego had to call timeout last year for the sake of our own player that’s how uncommon it is… and this happened TWICE this year to the same player no less.. and once you do something like that… you lose every benefit of the doubt when it comes to our players health…..

    do you even know what you’re talking about? are you even paying attention? or are you still stuck on mitch being unprofessional that he needs to suck it up and play?

  115. One of my very favorite bits of Knickerblogger rhetoric is djphan’s terribly sad, utterly rhetorical, and intensely insulting pleas for help.

    do you even know what you’re talking about? are you even paying attention?

  116. On a happier note, it was great to see Thibs finally going back to the strategy of goading the opponent into attempting – and missing – a boatload of 3s (7-46 today) that proved so successful at the start of the season.

  117. djphan: um… it doesn’t take much judgement to acknowledge that your player is on the ground and maybe call a timeout or get someone to foul them instead of going a full minute without even acknowledging them…. and then allow them to limp around for a few more possessions….

    THEN IT HAPPENS AGAIN!

    that happened… no other team allows that to happen… james borrego had to call timeout last year for the sake of our own player that’s how uncommon it is… and this happened TWICE this year to the same player no less.. and once you do something like that… you lose every benefit of the doubt when it comes to our players health…..

    do you even know what you’re talking about? are you even paying attention? or are you still stuck on mitch being unprofessional that he needs to suck it up and play?

    This take is laughable. As are most of your takes on just about every subject.

  118. Am I the only one who saw Mitch in the 2nd half today dunk 2 alley oops along with a putback slam plus blocking the shit out of a Smart shot in the paint?? He didn’t look that compromised physically to me. When he blocked the Teague shot in the 1st quarter and landed awkwardly he was immediately taken out of the game which Noel was already going to check in for him at the next dead ball anyway.

    Alot of people here hated Thibs before he was named head coach and will continue to hate on him no matter what. The funny part is Thibs knows 1,000,000,000,000,000 more about basketball than the people here who claim to know how to manage rotations and minutes allocations better than Thibs.

  119. well..I think one major issue here is the assumption that becasuse one is the “team doctor” or “team trainer” for a professional sports team is that they are competent…

    Having a family member who not only spent a decent amount of time working with the Knicks medical staff and other pro teams (football, soccer, baseball, etc)…there is a wide variance (just like in the coaching, ownership and player populatiion) in overall competence…

    Dr. Norman Scott is/was a joke…clueless… I would not want him making any medical decisoins for me…yet he was the Knick main orhtopedist for many years…ever wonder how he got that job….or Mike Saunders and whether he was any good…yet he was the trainer for a long time…

    Given the incompetence of the overall organization…what would lead anyone to believe that they would be good at selecting a medical staff….

    anyway…with that being said…if a guy is physicall laboring…doesn’t take a genius to figure out he likely shouldn’t be jumping up and down or doing a whole lot of weight bearing exercise…you know…kind of what basketball players do…

  120. Wow what a game to miss… especially against Boston. Pretty much everyone had a good game, huh?

    Seems like they had the Mitch alley-oop there whenever they wanted it (I guess Boston really needs an upgrade at center.)

    How could the switch have flipped that severely after their miserable losing streak??

  121. #anyway…with that being said…if a guy is physicall laboring…doesn’t take a genius to figure out he likely shouldn’t be jumping up and down or doing a whole lot of weight bearing exercise…you know…kind of what basketball players do…#

    In a village of Peloponnese a granny could tell if a pregnant was expecting a boy or a girl just by looking at her belly. If the belly was pointy it was definitely a boy….

  122. One of my very favorite bits of Knickerblogger rhetoric is djphan’s terribly sad, utterly rhetorical, and intensely insulting pleas for help.

    wow…. do scientists also start flaming ppl for no reason or do you have some sort of trouble letting something go? what does the evidence say here doc?

  123. This take is laughable. As are most of your takes on just about every subject.

    no i think you’re kind of sad.. who can’t help themselves take every little slight against them so personally that you reach into your bag of insults….

    why? did i hurt your feelings? is thibs your best bud or something? what bothers you so much that you have so much hate?

    you know for someone who has had so many bad takes on here both in volume and efficiency… i would probably take a dose of humility about someone else’s takes…

    but that’s just me…..

  124. No one is claiming that NBA medical and coaching staffs are infallible at injury management. The point is, how about waiting until there is actually an issue before jumping to conclusions? There is no issue with Mitch right now. He’s playing through minor injuries like lots of players do all the time. Today he took a hard fall, went out of the game, shook it off, and got back in there. He limped a bit like players with minor injuries often do. He will likely be fine to play tomorrow. It’s such a lame thing to get all hot and bothered about, especially when Burks, Obi, Quickley, etc. have all been prudently and successfully managed through injuries.

  125. djphan: no i think you’re kind of sad.. who can’t help themselves take every little slight against them so personally that you reach into your bag of insults….

    why?did i hurt your feelings?is thibs your best bud or something?what bothers you so much that you have so much hate?

    I’m not doing this again. Others have stepped up to refute your endless stream of BS. I’ll leave it to them.

  126. Z-Man – This is a dumb argument since it’s true, neither of us know anything.

    I said I think it’s insane to have a player out there limping around. I stand by that.

  127. Z-man:
    No one is claiming that NBA medical and coaching staffs are infallible at injury management. The point is, how about waiting until there is actually an issue before jumping to conclusions? There is no issue with Mitch right now. He’s playing through minor injuries like lots of players do all the time. Today he took a hard fall, went out of the game, shook it off, and got back in there. He limped a bit like players with minor injuries often do. He will likely be fine to play tomorrow. It’s such a lame thing to get all hot and bothered about, especially when Burks, Obi, Quickley, etc. have all been prudently and successfully managed through injuries.

    you have no clue about what mitch is dealing with nor do you have any clue about how “prudently” these players have been managed through “nagging” injuries…what is your definition of a “nagging” injury…what is your basis for giving the thumbs up on the treatment protocol…perhaps the reason burks/frank and others have been gone so long is injury mismangement and the protocols are fucked up and perhaps Frank is always injured (and DSJ too…but who cares) because the phsyical therapists and trainers have no clue and rehab them improperly ….so please… don’t suggest you know what the heck is going on and/or that the staff is handling it properly because you have no basis at all to make that call…

  128. I’m not doing this again. Others have stepped up to refute your endless stream of BS. I’ll leave it to them.

    if you didn’t want to start this again then why are you fucking come at me again… like why?

    we’ve buried this hatchet so many fucking times but you can’t help yourself and you keep insulting me unprompted… i have to turn the other cheek multiple times with you…

    why do i have to keep doing that? why can’t you just be civil when someone challenges you?

  129. The point is, how about waiting until there is actually an issue before jumping to conclusions?

    That’s now how any of this works. Even if Mitch doesn’t aggravate the injury or get a new one, it was still an awful idea to risk as much in a game that was effectively over and it boggles my mind that anyone disagrees with this.

    I’m not trying to turn this into a referendum on Thibs, who as I said has impressed me in some respects. I am simply saying he made an awful decision in this case, and I agree with the widely held consensus that his minutes management generally is a problem.

  130. pepper: you have no clue about what mitch is dealing with nor do you have any clue about how “prudently” these players have been managed through “nagging” injuries…what is your definition of a “nagging” injury…what is your basis for giving the thumbs up on the treatment protocol…perhaps the reason burks/frank and others have been gone so long is injury mismangement and the protocols are fucked up and perhaps Frank is always injured (and DSJ too…but who cares) because the phsyical therapists and trainers have no clue and rehab them improperly ….so please… don’t suggest you know what the heck is going on and/or that the staff is handling it properly because you have no basis at all to make that call…

    Thanks, dude, you are making my argument for me! I am saying that since you, I, nor anyone else on this forum has a clue, we shouldn’t get all judgmental until something actually happens to justify it.

  131. That’s now how any of this works. Even if Mitch doesn’t aggravate the injury or get a new one, it was still an awful idea to risk as much in a game that was effectively over and it boggles my mind that anyone disagrees with this.

    You cannot reason someone out of something he was not reasoned into.

  132. Z-man: Wait, you really think they were “forcing” him to play?!

    Yup, I saw Thibs with a big old stick telling him to get out there or else. C’mon man,
    I’m sure he asked Mitch if he was good and Mitch said yeah. But if a guy gets hurt in the second and comes out gimpy in the third sit him down.

  133. thenoblefacehumper: That’s now how any of this works. Even if Mitch doesn’t aggravate the injury or get a new one, it was still an awful idea to risk as much in a game that was effectively over and it boggles my mind that anyone disagrees with this.

    I don’t disagree with the specific premise, only in the general tendency to over-analyze the super-trivial. It’s just not a big deal. I don’t see how anyone can think that it is.

    thenoblefacehumper: I’m not trying to turn this into a referendum on Thibs, who as I said has impressed me in some respects. I am simply saying he made an awful decision in this case, and I agree with the widely held consensus that his minutes management generally is a problem.

    The point is that you are calling it an “awful” decision. It’s the penchant for hyperbole that I object to. It’s simply “not what you would have done.”

  134. nicos: Yup, I saw Thibs with a big old stick telling him to get out there or else. C’mon man,
    I’m sure he asked Mitch if he was good and Mitch said yeah. But if a guy gets hurt in the second and comes out gimpy in the third sit him down.

    Or if the medical staff says he’s okay, put him back out there. No big deal either way.

  135. Z-man: Thanks, dude, you are making my argument for me! I am saying that since you, I, nor anyone else on this forum has a clue, we shouldn’t get all judgmental until something actually happens to justify it.

    I am not judging anything…mitch is ultimately responsible for his own body…if he says I can go and they tell him its ok…well…that is on mitch…

    my point is that to sugguest that tje soundness of the medical teams judgment (and we know that the end game is that this is a for profit business and all decisions are made with that in mind) as not being questionable or below average is not a good premise to start with…

  136. pepper: my point is that to sugguest that tje soundness of the medical teams judgment (and we know that the end game is that this is a for profit business and all decisions are made with that in mind) as not being questionable or below average is not a good premise to start with…

    As is the premise that they ARE questionable or below average. It’s pretty cynical to think that teams these days just hire any bozo who wants the job, or that they care less about the well-being of their player-assets than you do. If you want to say that the entire medical establishment is questionable, that’s one thing. But unless you have actual evidence that the Knicks’ current medical and training staff is “below average” in their professions, why would you assume that they were? Because of what your “family member” had to say about Norman Scott and Mike Saunders?

  137. Unfortunately I saw way too many Norman Scott interviews during the last 3 years of Ewing’s Knicks career.

  138. Z-man: As is the premise that they ARE questionable or below average. It’s pretty cynical to think that teams these days just hire any bozo who wants the job, or that they care less about the well-being of their player-assets than you do. If you want to say that the entire medical establishment is questionable, that’s one thing. But unless you have actual evidence that the Knicks’ current medical and training staff is “below average” in their professions, why would you assume that they were? Because of what your “family member” had to say about Norman Scott and Mike Saunders?

    well… i have much better insight than your bs “prudently handled” shtick up above or did you forget you typed that crap already…

    I didn’t say they hire any bozo but steve mills was certainly a bozo and they hired him…what makes you think they did any more diligence on the medical staff…

    you try to play the shell game on your arguments…give it a rest…

  139. BigBlueAL:
    Unfortunately I saw way too many Norman Scott interviews during the last 3 years of Ewing’s Knicks career.

    OTOH, Ewing, who came into the league with chronically sore knees, went 10 straight years from age 25-34 where he played at least 76 games (including 8 straight with 79 or more) and averaged 37mpg in one of the most brutal and competitive eras in NBA history. It’s not surprising that he broke down frequently when he got to ages 35-37.

  140. Not to mention Ewing also played 135 playoff games as a Knick averaging 38mpg. In the 1994 playoffs alone Ewing played 25 games averaging 41.3mpg!

  141. Knicks delivered the Celtics their worst home loss since March of 2007. The 75 points we allowed matches the low in the Brad Stevens era (Feb 2015 vs. Miami). Boston ended up 7-46 from three – the 2nd worst 3-point shooting game in franchise history (20+ attempts). But people here have to find something new to bitterly argue with one another about. SMMFH.

  142. I don’t have a clue on the reality of the mitchmanagement issue. What I DO think is if you’ve got a player who’s important and a bit hobbled (well, just hobbled, even unimportant players should get this consideration) and you’re 30 points up in the third, with a back-to-back coming up, maybe sit him down. Precautionary principle. Just for rest, if not for wounds. And to minimize the chance for that horrible ‘injury in garbage time’ thing we’ve all seen.

    I’ve still got a fairly clean whiteboard on Thibs regarding his historical penchants. And I give him a huge pass so far this season given the injuries. So for me, we’ll see. But I do feel like this one was questionable.

    And Dj, it’s not that I necessarily disagree with you. I am just trying to get you to take a deep breath, maybe a chill pill if you got em. You burn a little white-hot there sometimes.

  143. pepper: well… i have much better insight than your bs “prudently handled” shtick up above or did you forget you typed that crap already…

    I didn’t say they hire any bozo but steve mills was certainly a bozo and they hired him…what makes you think they did any more diligence on the medical staff…

    you try to play the shell game on your arguments…give it a rest…

    What? So in your alternative world, Thibs and the medical staff caused Burks, Obi, Quickley, etc. to get injured? I honestly don’t get what you are saying. Are you really disputing whether Quickley was handled prudently? He couldn’t even move when he left the court, and hasn’t had an issue since returning. Obi? Had a strained calf, was held out for a bunch of time and now seems totally recovered. Burks? We desperately need shooting, yet he was held out even though he was listed as questionable.

    If you want to be cynical about all things Knicks because of Steve Mills, Norman Scott, etc., and view every decision by the current Knicks FO/coaching staff/medical staff through that lens, that’s your right. I choose to give folks the benefit of the doubt until there is actual evidence to the contrary. The evidence right now is that the players who have sustained injuries are being correctly managed. I don’t see how Obi, Quickley, Noel, and Bullock’s injuries could be blamed on the staff, or how the way they have been managed can be disputed, given that they seem fully recovered at this point.

  144. There is also evidence that Rose has hired personnel across the board who have had excellent reputations in their realms. He is keeping Perry for now (questionable) and hired Stoute (very questionable) but beyond that his hires have been widely praised in NBA circles. Why should we think that there wasn’t a reasonable vetting process in establishing a medical/training staff?

  145. Hm. I thought the mood here would be a bit lighter after the Beatdown in Beantown, but I guess the medical staff needs scrutinizing…

  146. I think 80% of Obi’s points came off IQ assists. The chemistry between the two is real. But right now he’s essentially a better passing version of Knox – a stretch forward who primarily scores off passes in catch and shoot/cutting situations.

  147. Ntilakilla:
    I think 80% of Obi’s points came off IQ assists. The chemistry between the two is real. But right now he’s essentially a better passing version of Knox – a stretch forward who primarily scores off passes in catch and shoot/cutting situations.

    If he shoots it like Knox he’ll be really good offensively but we’ll see how the shooting pans out. I need to see some success facing up because I don’t think the post is an option but I’ll take threes and dunks for now. I’ll live with crappy defense this year as long as he gets competes on the boards and manages something in the way of blocks/steals. He just looked a lot more engaged than he has thus far.

  148. And Dj, it’s not that I necessarily disagree with you. I am just trying to get you to take a deep breath, maybe a chill pill if you got em. You burn a little white-hot there sometimes.

    if you have a problem with me… i’m very easy to deal with…. you can just say what you have a problem with and i’ll try to help you the best way i can… i cannot help you if you start attacking me out of the blue…. that just makes for a bad time for everyone involved… i’m not just going to sit here and chill when i’m taking abuse either…

    so for everyone involved… just try to reconcile whatever gripes you have with me….

  149. Obi looked fine out there today. His post game is probably going to take time to develop, he’s just too weak in the lower body right now. He needs to be more of a quick first step guy for now, both with and without the ball. Sticking some 3’s with confidence might help. This was like his second game so to speak, so it might be a while before he figures out what he can and can’t do out there.

  150. Watching the highlights, this looked much more like Dayton Obi. Still lots of trepidation about him, but the fact that he and Quickley had such chemistry is promising.

    Quickley is also an interesting player to watch, literally. On the one hand, the length of his hair seems exactly wrong — it either wants to be a fade, or it wants to be long like Noel’s (or Tyrese Maxey’s) — but on the other, it makes him look more dynamic in motion. Like speed lines in a comic book. And motion is very much his thing, where he’s even bouncing on the balls of his feet in a way I don’t recall seeing another player do. He’s fun.

  151. so for everyone involved… just try to reconcile whatever gripes you have with me….

    okay, let me begin:

    1). your excessive use of ellipses

    2). your cavalier disregard for capitalization

    your posts are like grammatical anarchy all over the screen…and for the record:

    Ellipses for omitted material spanning two or more sentences

    When quoted material is presented as multiple sentences, four dots should be used for omissions between two or more original sentences; three dots should be used for omissions within a single original sentence.

    jesus man, just get your shit together, for the sake of all of our sanity…

  152. On the one hand, the length of his hair seems exactly wrong

    It really does look odd. Like maybe he tried to grow it out and this is as long as it can get for some reason? It must be intentional and yet it does not look intentional.

  153. Always love a Boston Beatdown. It doesn’t matter what the rosters looked like.

    I watched the whole second half, never noticed Mitch laboring – except being slightly winded a few times. Maybe he was favoring body parts and doing unsual things, like that one-handed stuff, when he normally does two handed dunks.

    On a side note, I got my wife, who does not particularly enjoy basketball, to marvel at IQ foul shots. The shot is so repeatable, like the ability to draw a perfect circle on the chalk board. IQ on the line has become must see TV. It is a beautiful thing.

    Enjoy the game, all this nitpicking makes me think they didn’t won by thirty.

  154. Macri:

    Knicks announce that Mitchell Robinson is questionable for today’s game vs the Magic. Alec Burks is doubtful while Frank Ntilikina remains out.

    Whelp…

  155. Good that Mitch takes a day off to heal. It’s up to Noel to shine and for Taj to contribute. Vuvevic is probably going to murder us though.

    On another note, I am kind of obsessed with this compilation of IQ’s runner/floater so far in the season.

    Knicks fans already know, but Rookie Immanuel Quickley might have one of the deadliest running floater games in the entire NBA.To prove it, I went through all 18 box scores to create this 2:30 supercut of every floater he’s made this season.???????? pic.twitter.com/l4hKsm2794— Rob Perez (@WorldWideWob) January 17, 2021

    Jide Sodipo at Building Blocks For Our Children, who claims he practices it endlessly, put out video of him working on it with both hands.

    It’s natural to him because he put countless repetitions to master it #EmbraceTheGrind So you can #EmbraceTheStage pic.twitter.com/yBN407OJHd— Jide Sodipo ? (@jidesodipo) January 17, 2021

    That shot is so critical for scoring 1-guards to master. Parker, Nash, Rose, Steph, etc. all have beautiful ones.

  156. What a satisfying win.

    So good to see Toppin have a solid game. Obviously he has a long ways to go but it was a sigh of relief and the chemistry with IQ was great. Another solid game from RJ too. Maybe the shooting slump is over? Hopefully Mitch is ok. I don’t want to pull a DJ and overreact negatively but I do agree that Thibs needs to be careful with the minutes. I think he wanted to see Quickley with the starters which is why he kept playing Mitch and I get that. But at the same time, we’re up by 30. Let Mitch sit.

    If nothing else its nice to know that we have a collection of young players (plus Randle) that we feel can grow together. Randle, RJ, Mitch, Quickley, Toppin and throw in Knox there too cause he’s been solid. That’s a nice little core of young players. Maybe no superstars in that whole group but there’s talent there. All of them back next year plus two more first round picks…we’re starting to brew something up here.

    I mean you could see a starting line up of Quickley, RJ, Knox, Randle and Mitch by mid Feb. That would be NICE.

  157. Alan, you’re right — IQ’s shmedium-length hair bounces around with his movements, accentuating them. They’re the length of the haircuts with curtain bangs that a lot of male K-pop stars have. It reminds me of how costumes in Chinese opera have water sleeves that whip around with the performers’ arm movements.

    And lololol geo finally snapped… over djphan’s punctuating style, of all things. I’ve noticed it too but never said anything.

    DJ, your ellipses don’t get me upset, but it does makes it sound like you’re rambling and all that all your posts are one long run-on sentence. Combined with the lowercase, it makes things harder to read for me and so I usually just skim over your posts unless you’re doing scouting updates on prospects, which I enjoy reading. I will strain a little bit so I can make out what you’re saying in those cases.

    I suppose I will also [Stephen A Smith voice] ADDRESS the “mitchmanagement” ISSUE: I didn’t watch the game and I haven’t seen any footage of what happened. I understand the concern, but I’ll wait and see. Mitch still only played 24 minutes.

  158. I mean you could see a starting line up of Quickley, RJ, Knox, Randle and Mitch by mid Feb. That would be NICE.

    Spacing-wise, that would be much better than the current starting group. But it means that both RJ and Knox are playing out of their ideal positions. I’d probably rather have an IQ/Burks backcourt (if Burks is ever healthy), or even just leave Bullock as the starting 2, since the threat of his three-point shot seems to open up the offense even on nights when he’s not hitting them.

    But Quickley definitely needs to start.

  159. Alan,

    Definitely. But I just want to see that line up cause its the young kids/future of the franchise line up (plus Randle).

    Burks should definitely be the starter but my hope is that he comes back, looks good and then we flip him for a first rounder. And yes, I’d like to flip Burks but keep Randle. I’m contradictory like that. But I just feel like Randle could be part of the future while Burks, while great, is older.

  160. I wonder if Mitch’s knee issue is the same knee soreness that held him out of the Team USA Select Camp last summer. Sitting out that one looks like it was the best decision, so hopefully this is a similar precautionary measure.

  161. How long is it gonna take for Thibs to realize the team is better with Quickley on the floor? Small sample size for sure, but his effect on the game is undeniable. Now, I don’t recommend that Quickley gets 38 minutes a game. Just let him be the table setter! Even if you cap him at 25-28 minutes a night, that is still better for the team than letting Elfrid set the table. Also, bringing Elfrid off the bench (until Ntilikina gets back) would force him to get other guys involved and not have Randle-vision. For as good of a coach that Thibs is, I just don’t understand how his bias doesn’t allow him to see that Quickley is more effective on this team.

  162. This is a good day to give Mitch a rest to get 100% and play Nerlens and Taj instead. That way Nikola Vucevic doesn’t embarrass Mitch like Drummond did. :-)

  163. I think Thibs knows Quickley is better than Elfrid. But he likely doesn’t want to rush him into the starting lineup and will probably wait til at least game 20 to make a move like that.

    I know it’s still early, but for a class that has been roundly panned by pundits, the 20/21 rookies are kicking some ass. Maxey, Ball, Hali, Tate, Isaiah Joe, Wiseman, Tillman, and Achiuwa have all had really strong starts, and our rooks are right there too. It will be an interesting ROY race, that’s for sure.

  164. Thanks, Ntilakilla. I’ve been fascinated by IQ’s runner. It looks like a desperation shot-put heave, but once you get past the ugly it seems well-practiced and very effective. I know others have complained about distance, I’d love to see a compilation of his misses to see if it’s true that the further out he is the more it misses (which seems to be logical). His three-pointer isn’t that pretty, either, but it also goes in. I’m all for substance over style.

    Which brings me to the ellipses and lack of caps. I’m actually in favor of them, myself. The style irritated me at first, but now I appreciate it as something different. I say don’t change, djphan. Just cut out the really rude insults pretending to be questions. Because they all can be summed up as variants of, “What are you, a fucking moron?” They don’t fool anyone and often lead to quickly escalating arguments that are personal in nature, rather than about the topic.

    So my question to the hive is whether we’re just being weirdly consistently lucky (an oxymoron if there ever was one) with Invisible Sixth Man, or are we playing some kind of great defense that is going to be replicable throughout the season?

  165. ess-dog: I know it’s still early, but for a class that has been roundly panned by pundits, the 20/21 rookies are kicking some ass. Maxey, Ball, Hali, Tate, Isaiah Joe, Wiseman, Tillman, and Achiuwa have all had really strong starts, and our rooks are right there too. It will be an interesting ROY race, that’s for sure.

    It does look like a stronger class than advertised, although quite a few folks said that the lack of star power was offset by a quietly deep group. But that said, it takes a couple of times around the league for teams to have enough film to scout new draftees, and it also takes a couple of times around the league for new draftees to figure out what the can and can’t do at the NBA level and what they really need to work on.

    Then there are guys who haven’t played much, either due to players at their position in front of them or injury.

  166. Yeah, I don’t think Thibs is in a rush to change the starting line up even if he knows Quickley is better.

    Elf is a vet and yeah, he’s a one year on a cheap deal but its still a bigger deal for a vet to get displaced in the starting line up, especially when that vet isn’t old. And once that happens, if Quickley does falter, then Thibs looks bad and maybe he loses some of the trust from the other players? And Quickley is probably fine being a back up right now since he’s a rookie, was drafted later and has plenty of time to become a starter after this season.

    I think Thibs will wait until Quickley has made the case irrefutable.

  167. I think Thibs knows Quickley is better than Elfrid. But he likely doesn’t want to rush him into the starting lineup and will probably wait til at least game 20 to make a move like that.

    If you all recall, Rose and Thibs both have repeatedly said that they would reevaluate this team after a 15 game sample size of games played into the season. Our game against Orlando tonight will be #15. I wouldn’t be surprised if some changes are made after then going into our game vs. Golden State.

  168. I do not see Thibs paying heed to modern day uber-conservative medical limitations. He’s like the baseball manager that lets his starter throw 160 pitches to get a complete game. I saw someone post the other day how Ewing played virtually all the games and there were 11 seasons where he averaged over 35 minutes per game. There’s a difference between injuries and pain. Mitch playing through pain is the anti-Ntilikina attitude. I saw that landing and it hurt me.

    As for Quickley starting, I posted the other day that I see the starting lineup evolving so that both Quickley and Burks are starting instead of Payton and Bullock. Suddenly we’ll have outside shooting in that starting lineup.

    Starters: Quickley, Burks, RJ, Randle and Mitch
    Bench: Payton, Bullock, Knox, Toppin and Noel
    The forgotten: DSJr, Rivers, Frank, Iggy, Taj

  169. Z-man: It does look like a stronger class than advertised, although quite a few folks said that the lack of star power was offset by a quietly deep group. But that said, it takes a couple of times around the league for teams to have enough film to scout new draftees, and it also takes a couple of times around the league for new draftees to figure out what the can and can’t do at the NBA level and what they really need to work on.

    Then there are guys who haven’t played much, either due to players at their position in front of them or injury.

    This is EXACTLY what was forecasted. This was not a draft that would have too many superstars but it was very deep in impact players.

  170. Thanks, Ntilakilla. I’ve been fascinated by IQ’s runner. It looks like a desperation shot-put heave, but once you get past the ugly it seems well-practiced and very effective. I know others have complained about distance, I’d love to see a compilation of his misses to see if it’s true that the further out he is the more it misses (which seems to be logical). His three-pointer isn’t that pretty, either, but it also goes in. I’m all for substance over style.

    I’ve been fascinated with his runner/floater as well for the same reason. When I first saw him heave them up I thought, “Why the hell is he throwing up such a reckless shot?” Then I noticed several were going in and realized that he actually practices it as a go to shot in and around the paint. To me, it seems as if his range with it is around the FT line, and this tendency actually connects to your observation about his awkward looking shot. I am no shooting expert by any means but it seems as if he shotputs (pushes rather than throws) his regular free throw jumper at the FT line the way he shotputs his runners/floaters. That’s the reason why, as many noted, he has a tendency to shoot more line drive type shots than those higher arcing rainbows you see from a Knox or Toppin. It’s a weird shooting habit that actually seems like he’s repeating a similar motion in both instances. I dunno know, maybe it works out for him and helps create a continuity.

    All I know is that runner/floater is nice weapon to have in the paint. Tony Parker made an NBA career off them and half of Steph’s game in the paint is based off them. And, as someone else mentioned before here, that shot pairs real well with the alley-oop game because it looks like a lob pass coming out of his hands.

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