NY Post: Tom Thibodeau’s Knicks rebuild starts now: ‘A dream come true’

I just thought it was funny that this was the most subdued New York Post article about the Thibodeau hiring. It really reads like the Post is saying, “Please, we need a new inside source! Look at the fawning press we can offer you!”

Here’s Marc Berman:

New Knicks coach Tom Thibodeau grew up in New Britain, Conn., and still owns his old house — 85 miles from the Knicks’ practice site in Tarrytown.

During his introductory Zoom press conference Thursday, Thibodeau referred to his new position as his “dream job.’’ He said it four times.

“This is a dream come true for me,’’ Thibodeau said. “This is my dream job. … Maybe part of that, I grew up in Connecticut. My father, my family, we grew up as Knicks fans. I’ve been there before, I have a great understanding of New York. I think we have the best city in the world, best arena and the best fans. I was there throughout the ’90s and that was an incredible experience.’’

For the first time in nearly eight months, the Knicks officially have a permanent head coach. They announced it on the first day of the NBA’s 22-team restart, as the Knicks try to restart their dead franchise that has missed the playoffs seven straight years.

Larry Brown once called the Knicks his “dream job’’ and left after one 17-65 disaster. Thibodeau is a former assistant coach from the 1990s glory days who went on to become a marquee coach with the Bulls and even broke Minnesota’s 13-year playoff drought in 2018.

But now Thibodeau may face a bigger task with James Dolan’s moribund Knicks. Asked how he can turn around a perennial mess, Thibodeau didn’t shy away from mentioning a championship, which the team hasn’t won in 47 years.

“You don’t make major jumps without going through each step,” he said. “So I think the first step is to establish the work ethic and how we want to play. There’s a lot of work to do. One of the most important things when you’re studying a team is just to look at efficiency, and when you see your [net rating] is a minus-6.54, you realize there’s a lot of work. And hopefully we can get the players to play for each other and start building those habits.

“Of course the ultimate goal is to bring a championship back to the city, where it’s synonymous with winning and championships, and that’s in New York.’’

Knicks president Leon Rose will be on the hook if Thibodeau’s old-school ways don’t work. Rose, his former agent at Creative Artists Agency, said there was “a comfort level’’ in hiring Thibodeau because of their long-term relationship.

Rose called the 62-year-old Thibodeau “the perfect candidate for this job from the standpoint of he’s going to demand accountability, he’s going to have development and he’s going to create a winning culture.”

“We hired not only a great basketball coach but an elite coach,” Rose said. “His principles and goals embody everything Knicks basketball represents.”

Thibs defended his Minnesota experience as, “It was more of a total rebuild, a team that had not won a lot for a long time. So I think you take from each experience, but each experience is different.” Ah, yes, Minnesota, with Karl-Anthony Towns and then Jimmy Butler in year two, was more of a “total rebuild,” different from this gig. Good point, Thibs.

He then described the three reasons he wanted this job so bad, and at least here, it made some sense, and wasn’t “No, no, Minnesota was a total rebuild. That’s much different than the Knicks right now for…reasons”), as he noted, “The three main reasons why this job was so appealing to me was the current roster that we have now is young and talented and there’s room for growth. That’s exciting to me. Secondly, is to work for Leon and Wes [William Wesley], two people I’ve known for an extremely long time. And thirdly is all the draft picks that have been acquired and also the cap space. We have many different ways to improve the team.” If you were to come up with reasons to want to coach the New York Knicks, that would be what you’d say, right? So can’t quibble with Thibs there. That was fine.

The whole press interactions by Rose and Thibs were fine. They said all of the right things.

We’re now a couple of months away from seeing what Rose will actually do with this team.

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403 thoughts to “NY Post: Tom Thibodeau’s Knicks rebuild starts now: ‘A dream come true’”

  1. Does Thibs have an ongoing relationship with a competent shooting coach?
    ( Asking for RJ).

  2. I watched the press conference. Bo, I agree with you. RJ was one of the two players Thibs mentioned by name as promising. I was surprised he was one of those two after his last season. I hope he’s right.

    Other notes of mine are, Perry was there as GM along with Rose and Thibs as the three people giving the press conference, which suggests he’s more important in the organization than some here have suggested. I liked Thibs’ answer about changing playing styles in the NBA. He didn’t say what he would do, but he clearly has been studying different teams and how they operate. Rose thanked Dolan for providing the resources to assemble his staff. I agree with him. Dolan is not cheap about trying to make the Knicks good and it’s something to be thankful for, especially in these times when money is short.

  3. The more I hear Thibs talk about basketball the more I like him. He’s very aware of the changes in the game, but he’s not a simpleton trend follower. I want someone that understands the game and knows how to find edges even when they don’t fit the current prevailing “wisdom”. As bad as previous management was and as much as they delayed the rebuild, we are in a good position moving forward if Thibs can develop the younger players and Rose can add the right pieces (which mostly comes down to quality shooters, a stretch PF, and some more play making).

  4. @geo ( off-topic based on an inquiry you made the other day) the article connected to the link has a chart that allows one to input their county and get output on how many infected people might show up if schools ( based on their size) if the school was started today. Might be a factor in your decision regarding your godson.
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/07/31/us/coronavirus-school-reopening-risk.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

  5. KnickfaninNJ: I watched the press conference. Bo, I agree with you. RJ was one of the two players Thibs mentioned by name as promising. I was surprised he was one of those two after his last season. I hope he’s right.

    I’m not sure why so many people here are down on RJ. I agree with Thibs.

    Look at Randle. He had back to back years where his TS% was 60%. Last year it was 53.8%. That wasn’t all random or because Randle was suddenly terrible. It was because Randle does his best work inside as a 2nd or 3rd option or coming off the bench. In NY he was the #1 option getting double teamed or driving into a wall of players because there was no space.

    We all know RJ has to improve his outside shot to become a star caliber player, but he wasn’t so terrible from outside that we need to panic. At this stage he does his best work inside but was in a terrible situation in NY last year just like Randle. If he can develop from outside a little (he will) and we can create more space for him to operate by adding shooters and either trading Randle or moving him to the bench, he’s going to be a lot more productive. If anything, he was better defensively than we feared and he can also rebound and make plays OK for a wing. He’s underrated right now because the stats can’t account for his teammates, the way he was forced to play, and the terrible situation he and other Knicks were in because they didn’t fit together (because our current GM and former president don’t know anything about basketball).

    If we put the right pieces on the court we are going to get a double level improvement from the better players, better fit, and better coaching in combination.

  6. Good retrospective on Thibs’ time in Chicago from an Athletic beat writer who covered his Bulls tenure:

    Bulls players who tired of Thibodeau now speak reverently about him. They’ve since played for coaches who don’t prepare like Thibs prepared, who don’t give of themselves as much as Thibs gave. He’s not an easy person to work for or with, but the Knicks have hired someone who is going to give them a fighting chance.

  7. I want someone that understands the game and knows how to find edges even when they don’t fit the current prevailing “wisdom”.

    Strat, I think I’d prefer he start with the little-known edge that 3 points > 2 points.

    I do have somewhat high hopes for Thib’s potential impact on Mitch as a defensive stud, though. On a more cynical note, the potential narrative of ‘grizzled old coach helps unlock young player’s defensive potential’ might start getting Mitch more of the media attention his play deserves.

  8. Major concern with RJ is that I think it’s very difficult to find a great player at his position who ever struggled around the rim like he did unless they were an absolutely lights out 3P shooter or athlete. 43% 2P% and 60% FT is probably a death knell in terms of what his ceiling is. I’m trying to imagine him as a poor man’s Jimmy Butler but that really is about it in terms of ceiling. He works really hard and so I’m sure he’ll improve, but even with my Team Optimism cap on, it’s hard to imagine him as any better than the 3rd or 4th best player on a good team — not exactly what you’re looking for at the #3 pick in the draft and one of your main building blocks.

    His comp coming out of college was Derozan, but even Derozan is a much more explosive athlete than RJ, and had a 50% 2P% and shot 76% from the line as a rookie.

  9. I had a dream (nightmare?) the other day where RJ just ended up being Rodney Stuckey. I think he even grew the goatee.

  10. There’s something to be said for a new grizzled old coach coming in with an intolerance for substandard effort and fundamentals. I can see RJ, Mitch, and Frank benefiting a bit.

    That’s all there is to be said. Maybe the Knicks need someone cranky to put out the fire, clean up the dumpster, throw some corn starch on it like they did in ‘nam, and yell at people to do it the right way. Still need some kind of NBA talent and a modern offense, which I’ll believe when I see

    Still, would love to see a MitchTube episode when Thibs rolls out with a bag of wrenches

  11. It’s still a little weird to hear the name Rose when talking about the Knicks. My 1st thought isn’t Leon..it’s #25. Is that a form of Knicks Fan PTSD?

  12. a (VERY) hopeful comp would be Brandon Ingram who had a very similar statistical profile at Duke and in his rookie year. But Ingram was woefully underdeveloped physically when he entered the league and is taller/longer than RJ — he definitely profiled as a guy who would benefit from NBA trainers and putting on weight/muscle. I guess RJ can get even stronger? But he’s not 6’9″ with a 7’3″ wingspan and never will be…

  13. The problem with RJ is if he’s not your #1 option, what is he?

    He has basically been bred in the mold of these big primary ball handlers like LeBron, Doncic, and Butler, but if that archetype doesn’t become a top-ten player, he has to become a 2nd or 3rd option. Paul George did this easily because he is a terrific outside shooter while guys like Iguodala have become glue guys.

    I think RJ could eventually become a glue-guy type since he can already pass/rebound/run the break fairly well, but he still has to put in a lot of work to even get to that ideal. Maybe a guy like LaMelo can take the pressure off RJ to be a #1 option, but he needs to put in a lot of work as well.

  14. As I recently pointed out, Thibs was very optimistic about giving Andrew Wiggins a max deal. He was responsible for bringing in former Bulls players and having them play an outdated brand of defense. He sacrificed young assets for a volatile star who demanded a trade less than a year after being acquired. He ground his players into dust with excessive minutes. There was very little player buy-in to what he was doing beyond the more washed up of his ex-bulls. For now, I am in “show me” mode. Old dogs have a hard time learning new tricks. What makes me a bit more optimistic is that he’s been somewhat disgraced and hopefully humbled, and he has no “obvious” control over player acquisition. I’d be very alarmed if he was given any such control. I still worry that Rose might enable him and make deals/draft players based on his preferences, but won’t judge until things play out a bit.

    The one thing that gives me some hope and optimism is that Thibs and Rose both seem to grasp the enormous gravity of this opportunity. Both know that this is a once-in-a-lifetime chance to become NY icons, and in Thibs’ case, this could be his last chance to be a prominent coach in this league. I sense that they are going to be very methodical and patient about rebuilding, with lots of voices being given a real chance to weigh in to every decision. Rose seems like he recognizes his own limitations, but also projects that the buck stops with him. He seems devoid of the bravado and antiquated rigidity that undid Phil, and unlikely to be as incompetent in negotiating and player evaluation as Mills.

    I’m also not buying the conspiracy theories about Woodson being insisted on by Dolan as a spy or a lying-in-wait replacement for Thibs. For all of his flaws, Woodson has always struck me as an honorable, straight-up guy and a highly-valued assistant coach under a bunch of regimes. That stuff is straight Knicks PTSD.

  15. I can imagine RJ topping out as a poor man’s smaller version of Lamar Odom. Good at a bunch of things but not great at anything. Acceptable shooter but no one would lose sleep over leaving him open. Surprisingly it may end up being his defense that keeps him in the league – I was pleasantly surprised on that end.

  16. Sadly, I think a better comp for RJ is Justise Winslow, also out of Duke. RJ had much higher usage and far better assist rate, but Winslow — who is not a good shooter — shot a little better in college and was a better defender/athlete. So yeah, learning to shoot would be huge for RJ, but if you take him off the ball, will that also significantly hurt his value? Looking at his numbers this year, the answer seems to be yes.

  17. “Maybe a guy like LaMelo can take the pressure off RJ to be a #1 option…”

    Repeat on LaMelo: .375 FG%, 250 3PT%

    Why bother with LaMelo when we have Frank and Knox as equivalent #1 options?

  18. RJ will figure it out. Thibs will really help him. He’s a very smart, tough kid with a lot of moxie and an alpha-dog mentality. The skills will catch up enough to his mind and body. He had way too much responsibility as a rookie on a bad team. He worked hard to patch up a glaring hole in his game (couldn’t get to the rim going right) and while he isn’t great at it, it seemed a bit harder to overplay him to the left. So now he has a very long off-season to work on all he learned from his rookie year.

    He may not be a star, but he can be a vital part of a winning team. I am guessing that he will LOVE playing for Thibs, and he will be empowered to call out guys like Randle (who is technically in a contract year.)

  19. For all of his flaws, Woodson has always struck me as an honorable, straight-up guy and a highly-valued assistant coach under a bunch of regimes. That stuff is straight Knicks PTSD.

    For coaches who wanted him, I totally agree. Larry Brown and Doc Rivers, sure. But when he was placed on D’Antoni’s staff, that wasn’t his role at all, right? That’s the concern. If Thibs was like, “I’d like Woodson as my assistant coach,” it’d be a totally normal hire. Woodson being placed on his staff is the jarring thing.

  20. As I recently pointed out, Thibs was very optimistic about giving Andrew Wiggins a max deal. He was responsible for bringing in former Bulls players and having them play an outdated brand of defense. He sacrificed young assets for a volatile star who demanded a trade less than a year after being acquired.

    Also, isn’t it weird how Thibs’ Minnesota time doesn’t seem to reflect them going backwards in year three, to the point of him being fired? The narrative seems to be, “Yeah, year one was bad, but they were in the playoffs by year two!” ignoring that they went back to being bad in year three, including 4-9 to start the season before Butler was traded (Butler missed three of those 13 games, they were 3-7 in the games Butler played). I don’t think his time In Minnesota is this great disaster that means he can never be a good coach, it’s just odd that year three tends to be glossed over a lot.

  21. I think the thing with RJ is the people are more down on him because he looked like a real NBA player from the get go. So people think for some reason his ceiling his lower. Like they take for granted that he played heavy minutes on a shitty team as a 19 year old rookie and more than held his own. And his demeanor/poise is a lot more mature than most 19 year olds. And he’s a “smart” player who didn’t do a lot of dumb shit on the court.

    So we saw this game after game and took all of those positives for granted. But even though he was NBA ready body wise, that doesn’t mean as a 19 year old rookie he won’t get bigger or stronger, get better at finishing, etc.

    Shooting is important, obviously, and he has a lot of work to do in that area. But the thing that gives me hope about RJ is that shooting is literally the only thing he really needs to work on to become a good NBA player. I’m not saying he doesn’t need to improve in other areas of the game cause he does, but shooting is the glaring weakness he needs to overcome but unlike a lot of other rookies, he doesn’t have 4 or 5 glaring weaknesses, he has one. He just has to shoot free throws all day and work on the 3 pointer and I believe he will put in that work because he seems determined and hard working.

    I know that was a bunch of eye testy stuff but that’s what I think of RJ. He isn’t Zion or JA, but I think he can be a starter in a contending team.

  22. Shooting is important, obviously, and he has a lot of work to do in that area. But the thing that gives me hope about RJ is that shooting is literally the only thing he really needs to work on to become a good NBA player. I’m not saying he doesn’t need to improve in other areas of the game cause he does, but shooting is the glaring weakness he needs to overcome but unlike a lot of other rookies, he doesn’t have 4 or 5 glaring weaknesses, he has one. He just has to shoot free throws all day and work on the 3 pointer and I believe he will put in that work because he seems determined and hard working.

    That’s not true, unless you count “at the rim scoring” as a part of shooting. He was also woeful at “At the rim scoring,” and if you can’t shoot and you can’t score at the rim, those are a very bad combo for a high usage player.

    I’m optimistic still about Barrett, because so many other players have had tough rookie shooting seasons at age 19 and he does a lot of other stuff well that people rarely improve on, so he’s picked the area where people often improve at as his bad area, which is good, in a roundabout way, but if he repeats this stuff in Year Two, well, that will be not good.

  23. I’m also not buying the conspiracy theories about Woodson being insisted on by Dolan as a spy or a lying-in-wait replacement for Thibs. For all of his flaws, Woodson has always struck me as an honorable, straight-up guy and a highly-valued assistant coach under a bunch of regimes.

    Dolan ALWAYS has eyes and ears in the organization that tell him what is going on behind the scenes. It used to be Mills, but there’s every reason to think it was Woodson when Walsh and D’Antoni were in charge. It was Woodson that had a great relationship with Melo (probably better than any coach in his career). It was Melo that made a big stink about Lin, that refused to play the way MDA wanted to, and that eventually drove MDA out so Woodson could be come head coach just like Melo wanted.

    Is that proof the same thing is going to happen this time. Absolutely not. But if you are a coach you need people loyal to YOU reporting to you. That goes double if Rose is crazy enough to bring Melo back.

    If management is insisting on more diversity on the bench, if I was Thibs, Woodson would not be my choice and not because of my opinion of him as a coach, but because I think he plotted with Melo to take over and because Doc Rivers dumped him for some reason that was never reported.

  24. Brian Cronin: For coaches who wanted him, I totally agree. Larry Brown and Doc Rivers, sure. But when he was placed on D’Antoni’s staff, that wasn’t his role at all, right? That’s the concern. If Thibs was like, “I’d like Woodson as my assistant coach,” it’d be a totally normal hire. Woodson being placed on his staff is the jarring thing.

    The difference is, Woodson was forced on D’Antoni AFTER issues started to arise, and while he inherited the job, there is no evidence that he personally undermined MDA or was a Dolan stooge.

  25. Deeefense: It used to be Mills, but there’s every reason to think it was Woodson when Walsh and D’Antoni were in charge.

    Every reason except actual evidence.

  26. If RJ can learn to shoot he’ll be fine, but I have no idea if he can. I think it’s a bit troubling that he’s had a lot of good coaching throughout his life and he still can’t shoot for shit, but I have no idea if that’s relevant.

  27. So, I’m guessing Thibs didn’t say he was going to fix anyone, a la Fiz and Mudiay? I’ll be happy if he just focuses on the team playing consistently hard defense, and on offense running pick and rolls and threes.

    In Covid news, now the Cardinals have an undisclosed number of players testing positive, so another game ppd tonight.

  28. That’s not true, unless you count “at the rim scoring” as a part of shooting. He was also woeful at “At the rim scoring,” and if you can’t shoot and you can’t score at the rim, those are a very bad combo for a high usage player.

    He’s very good around the rim when he’s got a clear path and is going one on one to his strong hand. No one except Shaq is good when guys are draped all over you, forcing you to your weak hand, or forcing you to take fade away off balance shots on contact or because of help. That was the entire point of me bringing up Randle. Randle is a very good basketball player around the rim, but a lot of those crazy spin moves, TOs, and bad shots were ford because there was NO SPACE. If Randle had space last year his TS% would have been higher and TOs lower. Same for RJ.

  29. Maybe Steve Nash needs to work some more godfather magic to help RJ shoot better, although I shudder to think that he already did and this is peak RJ. (Kidding, mostly.)

  30. Z-man: Every reason except actual evidence.

      

    I would say a functioning brain, Melo’s relationship with him, Melo’s behavior, MDA not asking for him, and who eventually became coach counts for something, but not everyone has both a functioning brain, understands the politics, and can add 1 1 and get 2.

  31. Elfrid is an example of an otherwise very good player who never learned to shoot, despite practicing, being smart, etc. There’s no guarantee that RJ improves his shooting all that much. There’s only hope that he’s young enough that the bad shooting isn’t entrenched. So I guess his floor is an Elfrid Payton-level player, especially in that he’s not particularly tall or athletic.

  32. The difference is, Woodson was forced on D’Antoni AFTER issues started to arise, and while he inherited the job, there is no evidence that he personally undermined MDA or was a Dolan stooge.

    I agree that Woody wasn’t a stooge. I think Woody’s an honorable guy (especially since he was literally scumbagged out of his Hawks job by an assistant coach under him, so I’d like to believe he wouldn’t repeat what was done to him). Just saying that placing him on another coach’s staff is not a good look for reasons other than Woody’s character. I agree that we have no reason to think he’s anything but a good guy.

  33. I think by year 3 Jimmy was mad he wasn’t getting paid like guys who didn’t work like him were getting paid and the team was just a mess (obviously, a lot of this is Thibs the GM’s fault). They played well after the trade, but I guess the players still on the team wanted him gone, or ownership was pissed at how badly Thibs bungled their personnel moves.

  34. In Covid news, now the Cardinals have an undisclosed number of players testing positive, so another game ppd tonight.

    Not players, a member of the team’s traveling staff. If the players test negative tomorrow, they’ll probably just continue normally.

  35. Deeefense: I would say a functioning brain, Melo’s relationship with him, Melo’s behavior, and who became coach counts for something, but not everyone has both a functioningbrain and understands the politics.

    And not everyone is dumb enough to defend Phil and his putrid tenure in the face of MOUNTAINS OF HARD EVIDENCE by making up one self-aggrandizing lie after another. You have made an art form out of talking out of your ass, to the point that you self-exiled, changed your tag, and continue to be the poster with the least credibility on this board, a perpetual laughing stock.

    And the great irony is that you bash the free press for doing exactly the same shit that you continually do. You don’t even have the integrity to practice what you preach.

  36. Brian Cronin: I agree that Woody wasn’t a stooge. I think Woody’s an honorable guy (especially since he was literally scumbagged out of his Hawks job by an assistant coach under him, so I’d like to believe he wouldn’t repeat what was done to him). Just saying that placing him on another coach’s staff is not a good look for reasons other than Woody’s character. I agree that we have no reason to think he’s anything but a good guy.

    That’s all I’m saying. It definitely is a bad look, but that’s also on Thibs to a degree. Clearly Thibs could get hired elsewhere if he was not happy with the conditions he was offered by Rose.

  37. Brian Cronin: Not players, a member of the team’s traveling staff. If the players test negative tomorrow, they’ll probably just continue normally.

    Hmm. CBS Sports is reporting “a pair of Cardinals pitchers” tested positive. CNN just “Two members of the St. Louis Cardinals…” They need to update their online articles!

  38. Yeah, I’m not psyched about the Woodson hire but if Thibs signed off on it before he started, that’s a bit different than the D’antoni situation. Also, its not Woodson’s fault Melo liked him nor does that make him a bad person or someone who was trying to undermine D’antoni.

    Also, we have no idea what the relationship between Thibs and Woodson is like. I’m sure they know each other fairly well at this point in their careers. Are they friends? I don’t know.

    I just hope Miller has a place on the staff too.

  39. Just for shits and giggles, being that RJ is one of the physically strongest 19yo 6-6 guys I’ve ever seen and that he seems to be a very physical defender with PG skills but shooting woes, can he emulate Anthony Mason? Can he become a switchable lockdown defender.

  40. First things first…oops, apologies forgot mister frank and frank o…also was watching the news and saw a bit of what was taking place in Israel…troubling times around the world…I hope you are doing well ingmarrr…

    clash, bo, KFINJ, leonam, wetbandit, totes, KYN, raven, oakman cometh, TNFH, farfa, vincoug, jk, tsam, alan, early bird, raven, ras, dred, nick c, milo, dink, E, cdiggy, donnie, big blue, strat, latke, glass half, d-mar, grocer, djphan, z-man, bruno, THCJ, oaktrees, pepper, ess-dog, owen, count de pennies, swift, mike h, knickerpowerblogger, bc, mike k, hubie, mike b – add: frank, frank o and ingmarrr…

    that makes 50 :)

  41. geo:

    clash, bo, KFINJ, leonam, wetbandit, totes, KYN, raven, oakman cometh, TNFH, farfa, vincoug, jk, tsam, alan, early bird, raven, ras, dred, nick c, milo, dink, E, cdiggy, donnie, big blue, strat, latke, glass half, d-mar, grocer, djphan, z-man, bruno, THCJ, oaktrees, pepper, ess-dog, owen, count de pennies, swift, mike h, knickerpowerblogger, bc, mike k, hubie, mike b – add: frank, frank o and ingmarrr…

    that makes 50 :)

    As long as you keep starting that list with me, all’s good.

    Maybe Woodson’s actually a good assistant? Of course, as Hamlet says, “One can smile and smile and be a villain.”

  42. geo:
    First things first…oops, apologies forgot mister frank and frank o…also was watching the news and saw a bit of what was taking place in Israel…troubling times around the world…I hope you are doing well ingmarrr…

    clash, bo, KFINJ, leonam, wetbandit, totes, KYN, raven, oakman cometh, TNFH, farfa, vincoug, jk, tsam, alan, early bird, raven, ras, dred, nick c, milo, dink, E, cdiggy, donnie, big blue, strat, latke, glass half, d-mar, grocer, djphan, z-man, bruno, THCJ, oaktrees, pepper, ess-dog, owen, count de pennies, swift, mike h, knickerpowerblogger, bc, mike k, hubie, mike b – add: frank, frank o and ingmarrr…

    that makes 50 :)

    posters I miss most: Caleb, Jon Abbey, KDM (he popped in not too long ago iirc), Jim Cavan, daarn, da Judge, iserp, knick fan in celtic land, tastycakes

    (and don’t forget the occasional cameo by slovene knick and Z)

  43. Hmm. CBS Sports is reporting “a pair of Cardinals pitchers” tested positive. CNN just “Two members of the St. Louis Cardinals…” They need to update their online articles!

    Yeah, now two players have tested positive. Berry berry bad.

  44. @Z-man I miss Farfa and Rob Silverman the most, I think. Some legendary recaps there.

  45. Farfa is still around. I was less of a fan of Silverman’s writing style than some here, but had lots of respect for him.

  46. I think people are glossing over Thib’s 3rd year in Minnesota because it’s probably considered more of a GM/president problem then a coaching issue and since we didn’t hire to be GM/president we won’t have to worry about that; at least from him. At the end of the day, he’s been a fairly successful coach with some obvious hole; basically a bizarro version of Mike D’Antoni.

    Are we sure that Mike Woodson has been hired as an assistant coach? Obviously that would make the most sense but we’re the Knicks so you can throw sense out the window. All the articles I’ve seen say he’s been hired for an undisclosed role in the organisation. None actually say he’s an assistant coach.

    @Z-man

    The Anthony Mason comp is an interesting one for RJ. He would obviously need to improve his finishing but shooting 56% at the rim isn’t that bad for a rookie. Whatever he ends up being I can’t imagine it’ll be at shooting guard and I’m hoping he plays exclusively at the 3/4 next year.

  47. geo:
    First things first…oops, apologies forgot mister frank and frank o…also was watching the news and saw a bit of what was taking place in Israel…troubling times around the world…I hope you are doing well ingmarrr…

    clash, bo, KFINJ, leonam, wetbandit, totes, KYN, raven, oakman cometh, TNFH, farfa, vincoug, jk, tsam, alan, early bird, raven, ras, dred, nick c, milo, dink, E, cdiggy, donnie, big blue, strat, latke, glass half, d-mar, grocer, djphan, z-man, bruno, THCJ, oaktrees, pepper, ess-dog, owen, count de pennies, swift, mike h, knickerpowerblogger, bc, mike k, hubie, mike b – add: frank, frank o and ingmarrr…

    that makes 50 :)

    Hey, I didn’t think I commented enough around here to make any sort of list! Brings a little warmth to my cold, dark heart.

  48. vincoug: Are we sure that Mike Woodson has been hired as an assistant coach? Obviously that would make the most sense but we’re the Knicks so you can throw sense out the window. All the articles I’ve seen say he’s been hired for an undisclosed role in the organisation. None actually say he’s an assistant coach.

    And “assistant coach” can mean so many different things, coaching staffs are way bigger these days and some are very specialized and don’t have much impact on in-game coaching.

  49. vincoug: The Anthony Mason comp is an interesting one for RJ. He would obviously need to improve his finishing but shooting 56% at the rim isn’t that bad for a rookie. Whatever he ends up being I can’t imagine it’ll be at shooting guard and I’m hoping he plays exclusively at the 3/4 next year.

    I am only presenting this in the context of RJ not improving significantly from 3 and from the FT line. If he does, maybe a Shane Battier-type is possible. The point being, I think he can be a switchable defender and a glue-guy crafty player who will do whatever it takes to win once he matures.

    If he improves his already decent ball skills, another comparison I think is merited is young Penny Hardaway. Penny wasn’t a great shooter but had great chemistry with that Magic team, and was a low-assist/high TO/medium USG/good rebounding PG.

  50. awwww, thank you so much bo, i really appreciate it…the thoughtfulness and kindness of others is not to be taken lightly or for granted…

    the kid’s school year will begin with distance learning…

    someone mentioned it yesterday i believe – the end of the school year felt like it was just simply important to reach the “finish line”…not so much now…

    if this is how we begin, myself and the kids’ mom need to do a much better job at structuring and conducting home schooling…there’s about a month to get it figured out…

    found the map for positivity rate for my county (.6%), unfortunately though – i live in the largest county in the country, so, it’s not really relevant data…saw some info for my town, we have a large percentage of older folks…so, the death rate here is pretty high…

  51. Z-man: I am only presenting this in the context of RJ not improving significantly from 3 and from the FT line. If he does, maybe a Shane Battier-type is possible. The point being, I think he can be a switchable defender and a glue-guy crafty player who will do whatever it takes to win once he matures.

    If he improves his already decent ball skills, another comparison I think is merited is young Penny Hardaway. Penny wasn’t a great shooter but had great chemistry with that Magic team, and was a low-assist/high TO/medium USG/good rebounding PG.

    I remember Penny being way more athletic than RJ but I was a little kid when Penny was in Orlando so I’m not sure. Of course, the comp I keep on coming back to is Rudy Gay which would be a minor disaster.

    How athletic was Evan Turner? He might be a reasonable comp.

  52. @Krisplashed
    The Nets are starting Lance Thomas at the 4. This should be interesting because he’ll have to guard Aaron Gordon and/or Jonathan Isaac.

    Obviously, the Nets are stretched very thin at this point, roster-wise, but it is still hilarious how unkillable Lance freaking Thomas is.

  53. oh man, z-man – i wonder and worry a bit about knick fan in celtic land every once in a while…i remember him being so nice and helpful explaining all of derrick rose’s ailments (he’s a doc)…i also though remember one of his last comments being about some health challenges he was experiencing…it’s been a couple of years since i’ve seen him post, i hope he’s okay, and still suffering as a knick’s fan…

    you have an excellent memory sir:
    clash, bo, KFINJ, leonam, wetbandit, totes, KYN, raven, oakman cometh, TNFH, farfa, vincoug, jk, tsam, alan, early bird, raven, ras, dred, nick c, milo, dink, E, cdiggy, donnie, big blue, strat, latke, glass half, d-mar, grocer, djphan, z-man, bruno, THCJ, oaktrees, pepper, ess-dog, owen, count de pennies, swift, mike h, knickerpowerblogger, bc, mike k, hubie, mike b, frank, frank o , ingmarrr add: KDM, slovene knick, iojonne (???), z and KFICL (i hope you are well)…

    yikes, i can’t remember, who is KDM?

    ha vincoug :)…i’ll tell you – it was hard initially to remember names and most importantly persons…basketball opinions alone don’t really stick so well to names…and, to be honest, many of you write like i think and feel about stuff, so, that makes it hard for folk’s comments to really stick out and differentiate…when folks write stuff that is really easy to digest, it just doesn’t really stick as easily…

    when folks say reasonable shit all the time, it just takes a while to spot something unique…

    perfect example: Brings a little warmth to my cold, dark heart.…that is totally something that could easily roll off my own fingertips…

    what helped me with you is your words on cooking – it just stuck with me that you really know what the heck you’re talking about when it comes to cooking…and, i love food…

    absolutely no doubt: knickblogger posters >>>>>>>>> knick’s basketball team :)

  54. I’ve never been a fan of RJ, so I think this “down on RJ” talk is people just realizing his actual talent level isn’t as high as everyone thought.

    RJ was the #1 player out of HS which often generates unwarranted hype

    RJ scored lots of points in college, another source of unwarranted hype, despite his poor efficiency

    RJ played on a successful college team (thanks Zion!!), but ignore the fact the team underperformed

    From the tape I’ve seen RJ:

    – Only goes left
    – Isn’t explosive or quick enough to get by anyone
    – can’t shoot
    – passes out of set plays but otherwise struggles to make reads

    Maybe RJ can become a solid player, but I’ve always thought his most likely outcome is inefficient/high-usage psuedo-star.

  55. TDM (not KDM).

    Other top contributors over the years include Ben R, Flossy, Silky (née Alecto?), Max Fisher Cohen, Ephus, the aforementioned Caleb and DaJudge, Rama, David Crockett, Thomas B., cgreene, chrisk08611, DS, and authors Kevin McElroy and the brilliant Jim Cavan.

    (And the geo-before-there-was-geo nice guy DanVT:)

  56. Mason was 6’7”, 250. Barrett is 6’6”, 206. So, to guard a guy like Olajuwon in the post without help (as Mason did), would require him to gain 44lbs, all in his legs and butt. Do it, RJ!

  57. Why isn’t Battier a coach in the NBA?

    (Why isn’t Battier president of the untied states?)

  58. So, I’m guessing Thibs didn’t say he was going to fix anyone, a la Fiz and Mudiay?

    No he didn’t. Other than mentioning Robinson and RJ as building blocks he said he couldn’t comment on anyone until he met him and had a chance to work with him

  59. Farfa’s still around? That legitimately makes my day. I had figured his posting just kind of tapered off during the start of coronavirus, so it’s good to hear he’s doing well enough to keep posting here.

  60. Berman on an early candidate for Thibs’ staff:

    According to an NBA source, Ed Pinckney, the former Villanova star who won an NCAA title and is a product of the South Bronx projects, is expected to be strongly considered.

    […]

    The 6-foot-9 former power forward would be brought in to be the Knicks big-man coach. Under David Fizdale, assistant Pat Sullivan worked with the bigs, got along well with center Mitchell Robinson and was chosen by GM Scott Perry. Sullivan still has a year left on his contract. It’s unclear if Perry will push for Sullivan, a Jersey native, to return.

    Meanwhile, there have been internal talks about Pat Zipfel joining as either an advance scout or bench coach. Zipfel, who worked under Daryl Morey in Houston, is considered one of the NBA’s top advance scouts. Zipfel was Thibodeau’s advance man for part of his Bulls and Minnesota stints. The advance scout is considered part of the coaching staff.

  61. Also, like Jonah Ryan, Lance Thomas is MRSA. You can’t get rid of him. He started out as an undrafted scrub and here he is, ten years later, starting on a playoff team with Kyrie Irving.

  62. i forgot a bunch…
    clash, bo, KFINJ, leonam, wetbandit, totes, KYN, raven, oakman cometh, TNFH, farfa, vincoug, jk, tsam, alan, early bird, raven, ras, dred, nick c, milo, dink, E, cdiggy, donnie, big blue, strat, latke, glass half, d-mar, grocer, djphan, z-man, bruno, THCJ, oaktrees, pepper, ess-dog, owen, count de pennies, swift, mike h, knickerpowerblogger, bc, mike k, hubie, mike b, frank, frank o , ingmarrr, TDM, slovene knick, iojonne (???), z, KFICL, ben r, kevin mcelroy, jim caven, chrisk08611, cgreene, ephus, caleb, daarn, iserp, tastycakes, da judge, iserp, david crockett, thomas b, DS, max fisher cohen, flossy, silky and rama…

    wow…

    oh shit, you’re right: danvt…great voice, really nice music – lives in a small town with an absolutely lovely bookstore…

  63. Didn’t Woodson have serious ties to the same Creative Artist’s Agency which Leon Rose worked for? He even dumped his agent back in 2012 to sign with them at the same time it was rumored that the agency had major influence in the Knicks organization from Carmelo Anthony, to assistant general manager Allan Houston, to player personnel director Warkentien. One Knicks player went so far as to anonymously identify CAA as a major problem in the locker room.

    Yeah, Woodson definitely seems like a plant in what is an inept revolving door franchise.

  64. RJ is the same height as Draymond but is probably between 20-30 lbs lighter than him right now (and I’m guessing has a shorter wingspan?)

    But maybe he has the potential to be that type of playmaking, small-ball PF.

  65. vincoug: Of course, the comp I keep on coming back to is Rudy Gay which would be a minor disaster.

    How athletic was Evan Turner? He might be a reasonable comp.

    Both would be vomit-inducing outcomes.

  66. Donnie Walsh:
    Mason was 6’7”, 250. Barrett is 6’6”, 206. So, to guard a guy like Olajuwon in the post without help (as Mason did), would require him to gain 44lbs, all in his legs and butt. Do it, RJ!

    Mase (rip) was really a unique player, haven’t seem anyone exactly like him before or since. RJ will never be the beast that Mase was on D, but he has a similar looking broken J and FT and ball skills and is more of a horizontal than vertical athlete.

    ess-dog: RJ is the same height as Draymond but is probably between 20-30 lbs lighter than him right now (and I’m guessing has a shorter wingspan?)

    But maybe he has the potential to be that type of playmaking, small-ball PF.

    I see RJ topping out at around 220, but he doesn’t have the freaky wingspan of Draymond, so may not be as switchable. But RJ may wind up being a better scorer at a higher usage. The question is, will RJ’s ego let him embrace being a lower-usage glue guy like Mase/Draymond/Battier? He definitely has the all-around talent to be a very good one but I don’t see his USG% ever dipping into the teens.

  67. add:
    editman – who’s forever riding a train, poring through scenes, working off his laptop…

    doug chew – another super nice person with a rock steady dad who’s doing his thing in wuhan…

  68. vincoug: I remember Penny being way more athletic than

    How athletic was Evan Turner?He might be a reasonable comp.

    Yeah, hopefully that’s RJ’s floor…

  69. RJ Barrett just turned 20 in June. I think that is all we need to say about him before we start the hand wringing comparisons to Rodney Stuckey and Rudy Gay.

  70. Early Bird:
    I’ve never been a fan of RJ, so I think this “down on RJ” talk is people just realizing his actual talent level isn’t as high as everyone thought.

    RJ was the #1 player out of HS which often generates unwarranted hype

    RJ scored lots of points in college, another source of unwarranted hype, despite his poor efficiency

    RJ played on a successful college team (thanks Zion!!), but ignore the fact the team underperformed

    From the tape I’ve seen RJ:

    – Only goes left
    – Isn’t explosive or quick enough to get by anyone
    – can’t shoot
    – passes out of set plays but otherwise struggles to make reads

    Maybe RJ can become a solid player, but I’ve always thought his most likely outcome is inefficient/high-usage psuedo-star.

    Oh, I’ve always been down on RJ. I watched a lot of Duke basketball that year because Zion was such an exciting player and I came away seriously unimpressed by Barrett. I was devastated when we fell to 3rd in the draft. Luckily, this year’s draft sucks so there’s almost no outcome that could upset me that much.

  71. I could definitely see RJ’s value being greatest as a playmaking PF for the Knicks. Although he may not be big enough to play the position, Anthony Mason’s era included much different PF’s than the current era and that makes a comparison based on build sort of pointless.

    But at that point you’re basically punting on defense and hoping RJ’s offensive playmaking can carry your team. I would much rather see RJ at SF and hope that works out.

    Being only 20 has never stopped Knickerblogger from arguing about a player. See Ntilikina, Frank. More importantly, I don’t see a problem with projecting a player at a young age. We do it for draft picks all the time and it’s a fun exercise if nothing else.

  72. Ntilakilla:
    Didn’t Woodson have serious ties to the same Creative Artist’s Agency which Leon Rose worked for? He even dumped his agent back in 2012 to sign with them at the same time it was rumored that the agency had major influence in the Knicks organization from Carmelo Anthony, to assistant general manager Allan Houston, to player personnel director Warkentien. One Knicks player went so far as to anonymously identify CAA as a major problem in the locker room.

    Yeah, Woodson definitely seems like a plant in what is an inept revolving door franchise.

    This is typical half-baked conspiracy-theory BS. We all know that CAA was an influence. CAA had lots of influence all over the NBA. That doesn’t make Woodson a Dolan rat who stabbed D’Antoni in the back. D’Antoni was perfectly capable of running himself out of town, especially when he didn’t have an engine for his rigid system.

  73. Jimmy Butler:

    Jimmy on Thibs “He’s going to do great. He’s going to turn those young guys into some real players; some superstars, some All-Stars … I know he’s been itching for this. I know he’s been preparing for it. When you talk about Thibs and the big stage I think they go hand in hand”

  74. But at that point you’re basically punting on defense and hoping RJ’s offensive playmaking can carry your team. I would much rather see RJ at SF and hope that works out.

    Yeah, I could see a little bit of 4 in Barrett, but he definitely should at least play the 3.

  75. isn’t woody supposed to be a defensive minded coach…why would thibs need that…putting woody on thibs staff is like saying he can’t communicate well with players…

    stoute, wesley, woody are all odd hires – unless they are there for padding against dolan, what a waste/necessity that is…

  76. ***“Didn’t Woodson have serious ties to the same Creative Artist’s Agency which Leon Rose worked for?… Woodson definitely seems like a plant in what is an inept revolving door franchise.***

    I don’t get this. Leon Rose was Tom Thibodeau’s agent for his entire career up until the moment Rose took the job at MSG. Why would he need a plant?

  77. That doesn’t make Woodson a Dolan rat who stabbed D’Antoni in the back.

    I didn’t say this. You don’t need to believe Woodson undermined D’Antoni to question his documented professional ties to the same agency which his new boss worked for.

    You also claim that the CAA has influence around the league. Can you show me even one locker room where a player has accused a sports agency of influencing their coach and locker room?

    I don’t even recall that during the Warriors under Robert Michael Myers.

  78. I don’t get this. Leon Rose was Tom Thibodeau’s agent for his entire career up until the moment Rose took the job at MSG. Why would he need a plant?

    Because their professional relationship changed and Rose’s job isn’t to represent Thibodeau anymore?

  79. If i were Thibodeau i wouldn’t mind having 1,2 or even 3 experienced and competent Nba coaches behind me instead of rookies and eternal-assistant coaches.

    Especially if i had the POBOs 100% trust on me.

  80. This sounds promising, from Begley:

    There is internal consideration in the organization to hire a significant number of player-development coaches for Thibodeau’s staff, per SNY sources.

    Those coaches would be hired in addition to the assistant coaches who will work under Thibodeau.

    The Knicks have one of the youngest rosters in the NBA and have seven first-round draft picks over the next four years. So it’s fair to assume that they see player development as a top priority.

  81. ***Because their professional relationship changed and Rose’s job isn’t to represent Thibodeau anymore?***

    But that makes Woodson moot too. You can’t have the cake and eat it too.

    I remember back when Jeff Van Gundy was saying stuff on TV in defense of Thibodeau and critical of the Bulls front office, Rose called him and asked him not to interfere because it was throwing smoke on the fire in Chicago and making it harder for Thibs to do his job. Presumably the two of them know how to navigate the politics of NBA offices together, without the need for moles.

  82. Ntilakilla: I didn’t say this. You don’t need to believe Woodson undermined D’Antoni to question his documented professional ties to the same agency which his new boss worked for.

    But what does that mean? That you make up shit going on behind the scenes, either then or now? What are you insinuating? That Rose is hiring Woody, a CAA client, to undermine Thibs, another CAA client?

    Ntilakilla: You also claim that the CAA has influence around the league. Can you show me even one locker room where a player has accused a sports agency of influencing their coach and locker room?

    What player? Funny how it’s an anonymous source whose identity was never revealed, yet you swallow it like it’s gospel, and coming from Chris Broussard no less. Was it Amare? Chandler? Kidd? Bargnani? It means absolutely nothing without some verification.

  83. ***What player? Funny how it’s an anonymous source whose identity was never revealed, yet you swallow it like it’s gospel, and coming from Chris Broussard no less. Was it Amare? Chandler? Kidd? Bargnani? It means absolutely nothing without some verification.***

    It was Chris Smith.

  84. i’m not sure why ppl are so down on rj…. everyone was so gungho on mega prospects of frank and that he’s only 19 years old and he’ll figure it out eventually that when we actually get a real prospect we’re making comps to rodney stuckey…..

    rj put in a normalish rookie year….. he was never mega superstar level of upside….. but he’s got a lot of the other rj (richard jefferson) … jason richardson…. and those type of wings…. about above average…..

    what he struggled with is shooting… and there’s no guarantee that it will develop…. but he was scoring pretty well inside although not efficiently…. he drives to the basket so much and he meets a lot of resistance when he does and he’s just not athletic or skillful enough to finish when he gets late pressure….

    he was starting to deal with it much better as the season progressed…. but his 2p fg% is still in ‘fine’ territory….. his free throw shooting was also much better after the disastrous first month….. if you expect those things to improve then you’re going to have about a league average shooting guard next year…. which is really good for a 20 year old…..

    next year is key tho…. there’s no guarantee that shooting develops but generally it does… especially for a guy that works hard…. the secondary skills are there and they are for real…. he’s a good prospect…. he’s one to be patient with…..

  85. Alan:
    This sounds promising, from Begley:

    This makes me happy. I’ve often wondered why the Knicks don’t use their Dolan Dollars to flood their staff with player development coaches. Maybe it just doesn’t get advertised, but this seems like the obvious step to take with your young players. The article also cites Brooklyn as one of the first teams to expand their development staff, perhaps explaining Atkinson’s success in part? If so, then you have to feel a little better about foregoing Atkinson.

    Just make sure Keith Smart isn’t among the development coaches.

  86. Z-man:
    Why can’t we be Memphis?

    Since I live in TN, easy for me to root for them. But yeah, I wish the Knicks had Jah.

  87. Donnie Walsh:
    TDM (not KDM).

    Other top contributors over the years include Ben R, Flossy, Silky (née Alecto?), Max Fisher Cohen, Ephus, the aforementioned Caleb and DaJudge, Rama, David Crockett, Thomas B., cgreene, chrisk08611, DS, and authors Kevin McElroy and the brilliant Jim Cavan.

    (And the geo-before-there-was-geo nice guy DanVT:)

    yeah, flossy was great. Thomas B and Crockett too. Silky and Ben R still chime in from time to time.

    Captain Merlin was another one, right?

  88. I mean if we get this version of Melo for the minimum I guess I won’t complain

  89. next year is key tho…. there’s no guarantee that shooting develops but generally it does… especially for a guy that works hard…. the secondary skills are there and they are for real…. he’s a good prospect…. he’s one to be patient with…..

    The secondary skills are definitely there and they are key, I agree.

    He just really needs to learn to shoot and be more efficient at the basket. It’d be gamechanging.

  90. djphan: everyone was so gungho on mega prospects of frank and that he’s only 19 years old and he’ll figure it out eventually

    I have no idea where you got the idea that everyone was gungho on Frank. There’s several years worth and tens of thousands of posts arguing that Frank is a terrible prospect.

    More importantly, Frank was drafted for his defense and so his inability to score is less relevant than RJ’s inability to score. Frank-ophiles believe Frank’s defense is good enough to outweigh any offensive shortcomings (as a Frank-hater, I must admit there have been stretches of his defense that make question myself). But when you draft a player based on their ability to score but it turns out that player sucks at scoring, you may have some legitimate worries about the player.

    One season is certainly too short to judge a player’s NBA prospects, but he showed many of the same weaknesses as a rookie that he showed in college and HS–inability to score efficiently or shoot the ball. I don’t see why we should disregard the first month of RJ’s FT shooting sample, this is the same mistake that Ruruland consistently made with Melo. I partly blame Keith Smart, but historically RJ has struggled with FTs so I give him less of the benefit of doubt in this area.

    Also, Richard Jefferson and Jason Richardson are much better athletes than RJ. Both those guys were vertical leapers in a way that Rj isn’t. However, I do approve of your comparing RJ only to other players whose initials are RJ or JR. We should do this for all players.

  91. This fully healthy Blazers team is probably the best overall bubble (no pun intended) team but also the one I’d least like to see get the last spot. Pelicans and Grizzlies are much more fun.

  92. I’m pretty invested in Melo sucking at this point, so I’m not happy with what Skinny Melo is doing.

    Maybe I’m just mad we never got Skinny Melo.

  93. Just wanted to chime in as well to mention how awesome this finish to Memphis-Portland has been. Now time for Yankees vs Red Sox…

  94. OT! Melo misses a game winning 3

    Overtime in the bubble should begin with one player on each team open for a three. ;)

  95. Young Melo would have eaten alive the Griz sexy rookies! Skinny old Melo just kicked their ass!!!
    ;-P

  96. However, I do approve of your comparing RJ only to other players whose initials are RJ or JR. We should do this for all players.

    I like it. So Frank’s only FN comp in the NBA or ABA is Fritz Nagy who played one season in 1949. You are making Frank look good. :-)

  97. Frank and RJ would have been much better players if they were playing for BStevens’ Boston Celtics imo.
    Environment seems to my “eye” to have a serious impact on Player’s development.

  98. I have a question:

    Why are the 2020 Playoffs dividing the playoffs between “east” and “west”? Geography is totally out the window, and they have already invited a disproportionate number of western conference teams into the bubble, so why not just take the top 16 teams and seed them as a whole? It’s what they’ve been floating for a while even without a pandemic, isn’t it the obvious thing to do now? I mean, the Wizards are 24-41, why reward them with a playoff berth over, say, the Blazers, who obviously belong on a playoff stage a lot more than Washington does?

  99. Z-man: posters I miss most: Caleb, Jon Abbey, KDM (he popped in not too long ago iirc), Jim Cavan, daarn, da Judge, iserp, knick fan in celtic land, tastycakes

    (and don’t forget the occasional cameo by slovene knick and Z)

    Thanks for the “shout-out.” I still lurk here about twice per week. I have been working 6-7 days per week as a podiatrist after recovering from my major open heart surgery . Still working 6 days per week recently but not as efficient due to COVID. Believe it or not, I made it all the way back to running (I am chapter 4 in this book https://smile.amazon.com/CARDIAC-ATHLETES-Ambassadors-Lars-Andrews/dp/0993038913/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=cardiac+athletes+advance+of+the&qid=1596239229&sr=8-2 ) I even won my age group (65-69) at the Rock’n Roll Marathon 10K in New Orleans on this past Feb 9. I will be back to talk Knicks and sports medicine as it relates to our players once training camp opens.

  100. Nice work KFICL!

    Sabrina’s ankle looked like it just about exploded. Felt sick. What the hell is wrong with playing basketball in this town?

  101. Haha, I was hoping that some lurkers would emerge from the shadows, glad to hear you have recovered so well! I did two NYC marathons (2016 age 58 and 2018 60) but recently my back had been a disaster and even walking hurts. Not a surgical candidate yet but I can’t be like this much longer. PT, chiro and injection haven’t worked.

  102. awwww, i can’t tell you how much of a smile you’ve given me KFICL…i’m so glad to hear you are well…

    wow, i don’t know even what to think of your story – that is truly amazing…talk about will and perseverance…

    you medical practitioners are insane :)…it’s hard to think of another group (maybe artists, educators, folks in the prayer business) who are as dedicated to their profession…whatever you are getting back from what you put in must be truly significant…

    getting old just doesn’t seem to have the same meaning to you all…

  103. Z-man:
    Haha, I was hoping that some lurkers would emerge from the shadows, glad to hear you have recovered so well! I did two NYC marathons (2016 age 58 and 2018 60) but recently my back had been a disaster and even walking hurts. Not a surgical candidate yet but I can’t be like this much longer. PT, chiro and injection haven’t worked.

    Sorry to hear about the back. If you ever make it up my way, I can get you in with a guy I work with who keeps the New England Patriots backs healthy.

  104. Robbie Cano has a .975 OPS!

    STOP THE SEASON RIGHT NOW SO I CAN LOOK AT THIS STAT LINE FOREVER

  105. He just really needs to learn to shoot and be more efficient at the basket. It’d be gamechanging.

    the thing is that he was pretty efficient near the basket…. or efficient for the amount of attempts… he was getting to the basket a lot and finishing at a 53% clip which is pretty good…. if you look at westbrook’s shooting splits he came from a worse starting point at a higher age…. and he cut down on his attempts near the basket and eventually catapulted his efficiency near the basket to >60%….

    that’s the path for rj….. of course westbrook got a lot stronger and got more creative on his finishes which is what rj is gonna have to do….. but it’s something that good prospects find a way with….

    One season is certainly too short to judge a player’s NBA prospects, but he showed many of the same weaknesses as a rookie that he showed in college and HS–inability to score efficiently or shoot the ball.

    efficiency is not something that generally translates at a 1:1 clip… someone who shoots 3s well in college is gonna be wildly efficient but in the pro’s it’s gonna usually be a lot worse….. rj’s problem in college was that he shot way too many 3s…. and his shot selection was altogether pretty bad….

    he’s come a long way to fixing that… and while he’s probably shooting too many 3s…. he wasn’t forcing too many shots ….. that’s good…. he’ll have to do better inside and shooting basically from everywhere but that’s not an impossible feat…. especially for someone who was really efficient in 2p territory in college… he’s getting to the line pretty well in the pro’s too and that’s a key foundational skill for any kind of efficiency….

  106. This NBA restart really couldn’t be going much better. Great matchups, a bunch of down to the wire finishes.

    Right now Adam Silver looks like a genius.

  107. Damn, Equality just kicked Black Lives Matter in the balls and pushed him to the floor. (Somewhere, Bob Neptune is smiling).

  108. @djphan

    The problem with looking at RJ’s college numbers is you also have to look at how he played in college. RJ in college didn’t have a particularly advanced scoring game; no real post moves, no real dribble moves. He mostly just bullied smaller, less athletic players. And while he could get away with that in college where he had above average strength and athleticism, it’s pretty average for an NBA player.

  109. Marcus Smart is as hatable as they come, doesn’t put up great stats, is not particularly athletic, and is not a good shooter. But he’s a winning player. Good model for RJ.

  110. Well here’s the other problem, if RJ plays the wing in the NBA he needs to shoot threes or run the offense. He can’t shoot threes and I don’t think he’s up to running an NBA offense, evidenced by his struggles working out if anything other than a set play in college. His college playmaking numbers were also bolstered by Zion and the fact he always had the ball in his hands.

    As far as RJ as a scorer at the rim, his ability is neutralized in part by his woeful FT shooting which has been an ongoing problem for him. You can’t make your living scoring at the rim unless you hit your FTs or score at a much higher % than RJ scores at.

    RJ will no doubt improve as a sophomore, I just don’t see how he improves in the ways he needs to improve to the extent he needs to improve.

    All that said, I love RJ the person and his work ethic. I hope he proves me wrong.

  111. I expect significant improvement by all Knicks youngsters under Thibs.
    Whoever don’t show signs of improvement must say “bye bye my darling” without 2nd thoughts and justifications.
    Elvis “It’s now or never” playing on the back…

  112. Now that I’ve adjusted to the initial shock, I now love this format. It’s like March Madness, but with good basketball players.

    I don’t think I want to go back.

  113. RJ in college didn’t have a particularly advanced scoring game;

    you don’t really need an advanced game to be efficient…. you don’t have to be harden or curry to be considered good…. i think ppl was expecting rj to be this savior but even with his good numbers in college he was never gonna be that….

    if you look at most good pro’s in college… their game was nothing like what it became in the nba….. it takes work but you also need foundational ability to get yourself on that trajectory…. that’s what rj has…. the whole bully ball game doesn’t usually translate well but rj’s game is a lot more than that…. 56% in 2p land on ridiculously high volume is really hard to achieve….. and for the most part that ability translated… he’s just too doing it too much and he’s not good enough to do it at the volume he was doing it at ….. that’s a simple fix….

    Well here’s the other problem, if RJ plays the wing in the NBA he needs to shoot threes or run the offense. He can’t shoot threes and I don’t think he’s up to running an NBA offense, evidenced by his struggles working out if anything other than a set play in college. His college playmaking numbers were also bolstered by Zion and the fact he always had the ball in his hands.

    As far as RJ as a scorer at the rim, his ability is neutralized in part by his woeful FT shooting which has been an ongoing problem for him. You can’t make your living scoring at the rim unless you hit your FTs or score at a much higher % than RJ scores at.

    getting better at the 3 and at the line isn’t a hard thing to do… he’s probably not going to be a 40% 3pt shooter or get to 90% at the line but why is it impossible for him to get to 75% and 36% ? if he turns into westbrook getting to the basket then he doesn’t even need to shoot 3s…..

    i think ppl get too caught up on what the modern nba is all about… you can be good and not shoot 3s at…

  114. Switching over to the NBA since the Mets are determined to make my life miserable.

    @djphan

    The problem with turning RJ in Westbrook is that RJ isn’t anywhere near the athlete Westbrook is.

  115. djphan: getting better at the 3 and at the line isn’t a hard thing to do… he’s probably not going to be a 40% 3pt shooter or get to 90% at the line but why is it impossible for him to get to 75% and 36% ? if he turns into westbrook getting to the basket then he doesn’t even need to shoot 3s…..

    i think ppl get too caught up on what the modern nba is all about… you can be good and not shoot 3s at…

      

    It may be among the easier things an NBA player can do, but that doesn’t mean it’s easy or particularly likely. The fact that RJ is a basketball-lifer and still manages to be atrocious from the line is a pretty big red flag for his future shooting prospects.

    Also, I don’t make the assessment alone but conjoined with his mediocre finishing ability and FT%.

    It’s not impossible for RJ to be a productive, or even a quite good NBA player. I just view it as more of an uphill struggle than others. He needs to make a lot of significant improvements. Most players don’t make them, he’s not alone in that. But especially for a high-usage scorer there’s little value or even negative value if he doesn’t reach a difficult to obtain efficiency mark. Based on his current flaws and skillset, I think he has a worse chance than others to reach that level of efficiency.

  116. Do you wanna win ?
    Grab 2-3 hungry for Wins ex knicks players and you’re ready!
    Shump and Jr
    Mook and Noah
    Kp Timmy Burke
    Lance and Jamal !!!!!

  117. Donnie Walsh:
    Now that I’ve adjusted to the initial shock, I now love this format. It’s like March Madness, but with good basketball players.

    I don’t think I want to go back.

    It helps a lot that the Knicks aren’t included because:

    (1) I don’t have to watch the Knicks, and
    (2) I don’t have to feel resentment that the Knicks aren’t included.

    Or maybe a few months off is just enough of a reset to not be exhausted by the regular season, especially 82 Knicks games.

  118. It doesn’t feel right tho that the bottom 8 teams don’t have the chance to lose and tank as hard as they can.

    Or at least the draft system to change a bit for this year. Why the Knicks should get the 6th pick if they fail to be lucky on the lottery?

  119. I feel like this rest period benefited KP as much as anybody playing in the NBA this season.

  120. ***I feel like this rest period benefited KP as much as anybody playing in the NBA this season.***

    The rest period strengthened Jonathan Isaac’s knee AND his faith his Gospel.

  121. Ntilakilla:
    I feel like this rest period benefited KP as much as anybody playing in the NBA this season.

    It definitely helps confirm his Mr. November rep

  122. What if we all just pretended that our fandoms were throw-ins with the KP trade along with Courtney Lee’s contract?

  123. But what does that mean? That you make up shit going on behind the scenes, either then or now? What are you insinuating? That Rose is hiring Woody, a CAA client, to undermine Thibs, another CAA client?

    I didn’t make up a thing. I even sourced the documented fact that CAA had major representation in the organization dating back to the beginnings of the Carmelo Anthony era. There have been rumors for years that players represented by CAA end up getting paid better and better treated by the Knicks than most NBA teams – players like Chris Smith, CAA client JR Smith’s little brother, who had no business being signed to a contract by an NBA team. Now Leon Rose, who was Carmelo’s agent is the GM, William Wesley is now executive vice president/senior basketball adviser, and Mike Woodson is Knicks assistant head coach. All CAA guys. Do the math.

    What player? Funny how it’s an anonymous source whose identity was never revealed, yet you swallow it like it’s gospel, and coming from Chris Broussard no less. Was it Amare? Chandler? Kidd? Bargnani? It means absolutely nothing without some verification.

    So you can’t find another comparable example. Figures, since neither could I. As for anonymous sources, you expect any NBA player to come forward with such allegations against a Dolan approved front office? C’mon…

  124. Ntilakilla: I didn’t make up a thing. I even sourced the documented fact that CAA had major representation in the organization dating back to the beginnings of the Carmelo Anthony era. There have been rumors for years that players represented by CAA end up getting paid better and better treated by the Knicks than most NBA teams – players like Chris Smith, CAA client JR Smith’s little brother, who had no business being signed to a contract by an NBA team. Now Leon Rose, who was Carmelo’s agent is the GM, William Wesley is now executive vice president/senior basketball adviser, and Mike Woodson is Knicks assistant head coach. All CAA guys. Do the math.

    So you can’t find another comparable example. Figures, since neither could I. As for anonymous sources, you expect any NBA player to come forward with such allegations against a Dolan approved front office? C’mon…

    What’s your point? That CAA was an influential entity within the Knicks organization at that time? Duh! We’re talking about Mike Woodson, and you insinuating that he was a “plant” rather than he was a CAA client who was a) qualified as a head coach and b) not personally engaged in any subterfuge to undermine D’Antoni.

    You have absolutely no evidence that non-CAA players were treated worse (other than an anonymous quote via an openly homophobic reporter) or not paid as much as they would have been otherwise solely on the basis of being non-CAA. As to Chris Smith, do you think Giannis’ brother Thanasis is on the team on a two-year deal because of his basketball prowess?

  125. Disgruntled “star” players have gotten coaches fired all the time, whether CAA was involved or not. D’Antoni was a dead man walking as soon as Melo was brought in. I’m sure he wanted no part of that trade.

  126. Z-man: What’s your point?

    My point is that Woodson is definitely in Leon Rose’s pocket, a documented fact when he switched to the CAA the moment he became coach for a CAA-dominated Knicks team back in 2012, and was most likely chosen as a coaching assistant to Tom Thibadeau, one of the most independent-minded and strong-willed head coaches in the NBA for that reason.

    You have absolutely no evidence that non-CAA players were treated worse (other than an anonymous quote via an openly homophobic reporter) or not paid as much as they would have been otherwise solely on the basis of being non-CAA

    ….

    As to Chris Smith, do you think Giannis’ brother Thanasis is on the team on a two-year deal because of his basketball prowess?

    Um, your analogy just made my point, providing the proof you claim I don’t have. CAA had as much influence in the Knicks FO as Giannis does in the Bucks FO. That’s a considerable amount of power.

    D’Antoni was a dead man walking as soon as Melo was brought in. I’m sure he wanted no part of that trade.

    What is your hard-on for D’Antoni? His dismissal is besides my point. I never mentioned it once and you’ve done so three times already.

  127. I thought Houston was dead like 4 times tonight and they just kept coming back. Very impressive, even if they also have a lot of flaws. Harden was fucking spectacular-49 points on 20 shots with 9 rebounds and 8 assists.

  128. RJ Barrett is going to be an NBA all star before he’s 22 years old provided the Knicks put a competent roster around him. He’s largely judged here by his bad shooting numbers, but those should honestly be viewed on a scale. Last year’s Knicks team was constructed so poorly that guys saw some tremendous drops in efficiency year over year. Marcus Morris, Bobby Portis, and Frank Ntilikina were probably the only guys whose efficiency numbers didn’t suffer but other than that across the board it was a down year for the entire roster (aside from Gibson and Mitchell Robinson who did all of their damage from the dunker spot). Wayne Ellington has not been a .509 TS% guy recently, but last year he was. Julius Randle went from a .600 TS% to like .532. Reggie Bullock’s TS% dropped around 40 points. Elfrid Payton’s TS% went down 30 points.

    When an entire roster of players sees a regression in their numbers, it speaks to poor roster construction, poor player development, and bad coaching. All of those guys got fired, except for Scott Perry whose trade for the LAC 1RP looks better and better each day with the way Mook has played since joining the Clippers.

    Perspective is important. I’m 99% sure everybody on this board would love today’s Brandon Ingram but if we drafted him out of Duke you’d have Knox’d him. RJ Barrett’s a hard worker, he’s a high IQ player, he gets to the line a ton, and he’s very strong. He looks less athletic than he actually is because he isn’t very fluid with the ball in his hand, but where he doesn’t give you a speed/quickness advantage he gives you a strength advantage. Once the shot starts to fall and the Knicks put guys around him that play winning basketball you’ll see what we really have.

  129. “Farfa’s still around? That legitimately makes my day. I had figured his posting just kind of tapered off during the start of coronavirus, so it’s good to hear he’s doing well enough to keep posting here.”

    Yup! Still alive and kicking. It was a very messy first half of 2020 (right now going through a nasty breakup, I also got acquitted from fraudolent bankruptcy in a trial that was going on since 2016 – yeah, I had a very interesting life in my first 36 years -, also there’s the whole pandemic thing) but I’m getting my legs back and might even write something during the bubble.

    Thank you for all the love :)

  130. Revisiting Thibs’ comments about using the G-league, Berman suggests Perry previously fought Craig Robinson on doing that:

    According to an NBA source familiar with the situation, Robinson lobbied to have the Knicks’ top prospects who weren’t getting enough NBA time to spend a few games — or weeks — in the G-League to gain rhythm and grow confidence.

    Perry rejected the notion, feeling it would be perceived as too big a demotion and felt practice time as well as being around NBA coaches was more vital, according to a source. Robinson’s counter was that during the NBA season, practice time and scrimmages are limited.

    Perry’s still here, but he’s a leftover of the previous regime, while Thibs is Rose’s handpicked guy. I wonder how a similar dispute between the two of them will go…

  131. It was the typical “talk out of both sides of their mouths” Knick era. “Minutes don’t matter” and then “Wooten needs more minutes.”

  132. I’m getting the feeling that Perry is skating on thin ice for this last year if Berman is talking about the player development issues and Perry’s reluctance to use the G league.

    There have been periods where we’ve had young players that needed minutes not playing at all. The G league shuttle would have been useful for them. Someone like DSJr could have used it last year when he was coming back from injuries or had missed time. Frank could have run the point for 36 minutes a night in his rookie year and been given a few games here or there when he was in Knicks purgatory. It might have helped Knox too.

    Perry should have been let go with Mills. He’s not grossly incompetent at his job the way Mills was as GM under Phil or as POBO where he did serious damage, but he doesn’t do anything on the plus side either.

  133. I think Perry did some plus things. His Melo trade, his Morris trade and even his Hernangomez trade were. good. I was and am unhappy about the KP trade, but it got good reviews for value received at the time and if his marching orders were make room for Durant and Irving, he did his job.

  134. Owen: KP was -11. Nothing to see here

    lmao

    IMO, he was the 2nd best player on the court last night behind Harden. What shocked me about his play last night was that he made a few terrific passes. A couple weren’t completed for baskets, but they displayed a court awareness and some passing skills I didn’t think he had. If he adds some secondary playmaking to his game over the next couple of years, forgetaboutit.

    He’s way ahead of where I thought he’d be this year given the injury and layoff. He’s a better player now than when he left. He’s stronger, being used better, and he’s just getting better. He still has to get stronger and more aggressive on the boards though. He had 16 rebounds, but a lot of them were what I call deferred rebounds, Any number of players could have gotten them, but his teammates deferred them to him as they often do for Doncic to get the ball in his hands quickly.

    Doncic is an incredible talent that might be the best player in the league in a few years, but that kid throws up some trash shots, makes some boneheaded passes in critical situations. and doesn’t play much defense. He has a lot to learn, but the talent getting to the basket and finishing when he has space is amazing.

    Overall, the ex Knicks played well.

  135. “ He’s not grossly incompetent at his job the way Mills was as GM under Phil”

    You gotta respect the commitment to the bit

  136. Wondering if the Berman story was a shot across Perry’s bow from current MSG folks so he’ll know his authority is very shaky, or if this is Mills or Craig Robinson (both of whom were clear Berman sources in the past) reaching up from the grave to slap the guy who somehow survived them.

  137. Before we go too gaga over Porzingis’ “opening night” performance, let’s not forget he was going against a squad whose tallest player was 6’7″ (Covington, who BTW also scored the tying basket with a put back after a missed foul shot with KP standing right there)

  138. I’m starting to wonder..
    How much of Ntilikina’s issues are his actual game, and how much does spacing and not being flashy contribute to how he looks. I mean..I see plenty of flashes of solid game. I think previous coaches have nearly killed his confidence by starting guys like Jack and Mudiay over him..or DSJ because of his flash. None of those guys are actually better overall players than him IMO. I’m sorry..I’m a big Ntilikina fan because I’m old school and I love defense and point guards. I don’t think he’ll ever be a star, so maybe it’s time to stop expecting star qualities out of the slot he was drafted in. Not trying to move the goalposts, but history has shown that not every lottery pick is a star. Hell, even top picks underwhelm often. Even still, as much of a fan of his I am, we blew it by not drafting Donovan Mitchell. But..hindsight is 20/20, so….

  139. Totes, you make some valid points. I disagree with the hindsight part, though. There was zero evidence beyond a good performance in some kiddie tournament in Europe that Frank had any aptitude to be a successful NBA PG during his rookie deal. He’s still very young and we are in an era of positionless basketball but clearly he was a terrible draft pick at that position. But I am very interested to see how Thibs values him and uses him. I agree with Glass above that TS%’s were depressed somewhat by bad mix of players and bad coaching, so I expect that guys like Frank, RJ and Knox will be more efficient next year. I also think that Iggy, Wooten, Harper and Pinson will get some serious consideration for the rotation, especially if they let Payton walk.

  140. The Glass Half Rebuilt: Marcus Morris, Bobby Portis, and Frank Ntilikina were probably the only guys whose efficiency numbers didn’t suffer but other than that across the board it was a down year for the entire roster (aside from Gibson and Mitchell Robinson who did all of their damage from the dunker spot).

    Yes. If we ignore half the roster, we can conclude that everyone had a down year.

  141. d-mar:
    Before we go too gaga over Porzingis’ “opening night” performance, let’s not forget he was going against a squad whose tallest player was 6’7? (Covington, who BTW also scored the tying basket with a put back after a missed foul shot with KP standing right there)

    I agree with this, KP does not play to his height (in a bad way.) He’s still very soft. But offensively he definitely has improved. He abused shorter players with the little bank shot from 10-12 feet a la Dirk/Duncan, which is something he needs to do a lot more.

    And Doncic, man is he exciting.

  142. If the lottery gods had just gifted us one of Zion, Ja or Luka, this franchise would be in a whole other place.

    So depressing….

  143. In an elite offensive system with great spacing and a dynamic offensive initiator Kristaps is managing to *checks stats* score just as efficiently as he did when he was on the Knicks.

  144. He’s not grossly incompetent at his job the way Mills was as GM under Phil or as POBO where he did serious damage

    PJ: Get me Joakim Noah
    SM: He’s asking for 4/72
    PJ: Listen, I don’t understand what numbers are, just sign Joakim Noah
    SM: But that means we’ll have less cap space to spend on other pl—
    PJ: I SAID NO NUMBERS
    SM: Well who else do you want to sign
    PJ: Listen, I just ate some peyote buttons and Courtney Lee appeared to me as my spirit animal, maybe sign him
    SM: Okay, he wants four years
    PJ: FOUR IS A NUMBER, I SAID NO NUMBERS

  145. Ntilakilla: Um, your analogy just made my point, providing the proof you claim I don’t have. CAA had as much influence in the Knicks FO as Giannis does in the Bucks FO. That’s a considerable amount of power.

    Again, the argument isn’t about CAA’s power, it’s about Mike Woodson. You keep going back to things we agree on to defend a totally different point.

    Ntilakilla: What is your hard-on for D’Antoni? His dismissal is besides my point. I never mentioned it once and you’ve done so three times already.

    Once again, we’re arguing about Woodson’s involvement in a CAA scheme to replace D’Antoni. What point of mine are you trying to refute?

    No surprise, though, your reasoning is about as valid now as it was when you used the “pull things out of my ass” approach to defending the Ntilikina pick. How did that work out for you?

  146. Yup! Still alive and kicking. It was a very messy first half of 2020 (right now going through a nasty breakup, I also got acquitted from fraudolent bankruptcy in a trial that was going on since 2016 – yeah, I had a very interesting life in my first 36 years -, also there’s the whole pandemic thing) but I’m getting my legs back and might even write something during the bubble.

    Thank you for all the love :)

    Thank you for helping make this blog interesting during a very depressing era for the Knicks! As many others have said, at this point I mostly follow the Knicks to the degree I do because of this blog, which is one of the best kept secrets on the internet. Where else can you get something as great as ptmilo and uncle geo posting in the same threads?

  147. Farfa, I am sorry that it’s been such a tough stretch for you. I think it’s pretty unanimous here at KB that you deserve only the best, and hopefully that is what awaits you going forward, especially when recap time starts up again in December. Keep us informed and we’ll keep sending good karma your way.

  148. Look, Woody isn’t going to throw anybody under the bus. Unless they pass to an open Knox, then all bets are off.

  149. If only Pulisic didn’t play for chelsea…

    And if only he hadn’t just got injured again. Dammit.

  150. I’ve never heard of Christian Pulisic. I had to look him up to see what you guys were talking about. I read his Wikipedia page. This was the most interesting and telling part, nestled in at the very end:

    “Outside of soccer, Pulisic is a fan of the New York Jets, New York Rangers, and Philadelphia 76ers.”

  151. Oh, this will be fun:

    An Oklahoma state representative issued a statement warning Oklahoma City Thunder players against kneeling during the National Anthem, and threatened to reexamine the Thunder’s tax benefits if players kneel, per http://KFOR.com

  152. Pulisic is from Hershey. Best player America has ever produced. Gio Reyna is also looking like a potential star.

  153. Early Bird: Yes. If we ignore half the roster, we can conclude that everyone had a down year.

    All of Kevin Knox, Dennis Smith Jr, Reggie Bullock, Mo Markless, Julius Randle, Elfrid Payton and Wayne Ellington saw tremendous drops in their scoring efficiency despite their usages remaining consistent with the rest of their career numbers year over year. Mitchell Robinson and Taj Gibson have idiot proof shot charts so they weren’t affected, and I think that’s rather obvious to anybody who turns on a Knicks game. Frank Ntilikina saw improvement because there was literally nowhere to go but up for him, and Marcus Morris just seemed to thrive in the Melo spot. Good for him.

    So yes, if you weren’t a center, Frank Ntilikina, or Marcus Morris, you struggled on offense this year. That’s the environment we put RJ Barrett into.

  154. An Oklahoma state representative issued a statement warning Oklahoma City Thunder players against kneeling during the National Anthem, and threatened to reexamine the Thunder’s tax benefits if players kneel, per

    i hear seattle’s single.

  155. i know it is wishful thinking but it would be incredible if roberson miraculously came back near 100 pct. okc was actually a pretty dominant team with their best guys on the floor, they just had to play some really marginal guys a lot of minutes. one more rotation guy would help a lot.

  156. the bubble has really made me appreciate the unceasing intensity of some of the veteran maniac-stars like butler, westbrook and cp3. it adds back a bit of what you lose from the empty gym.

  157. This is so much better than the regular NBA. I haven’t watched this much basketball in years.

    I don’t miss the fans, the noise, the mascots, the cheerleaders, the T-shirt cannons, the celebrity court-side interviews, the streakers, or the Knicks.

    The only thing I’d like back is the names on the jerseys because, without watching much tv over the past few years and only reading box scores, I have no idea what these guys look like.

    Contract the league to 22 teams. Play a 3 week regular season and a 3 month playoff, I’m in.

  158. The Glass Half Rebuilt: So yes, if you weren’t a center, Frank Ntilikina, or Marcus Morris, you struggled on offense this year. That’s the environment we put RJ Barrett into.

      

    Dotson
    Morris
    Mitch
    Taj
    Trier
    Harkless at .536 TS% is barely under his career .544 average
    Portis
    Ntilikina
    Knox from .475 to .470 TS%

    All of the above were above or at least near their career averages. We had 17 players log minutes, that’s 9 of them. We had 2 rookies. So of the players with a career average we can use as a comparison, you literally have to ignore over half of them to make your point.

    Your sample of tremendous drops then includes:

    DSJR whose shot was broken by Keith Smart over the summer

    Randle who completely changed his role from PnR finisher to offense initiator and spin move extraordinaire

    Bullock who suffered a severe offseason injury

    Payton who came back from an injury

    Kadeem Allen who played 117 minutes

    Ellington for whom I have nothing witty to write

  159. I think the Utah Jazz are toasted. They have absolutely no bench besides Jordan Clarkson. They have no wild card player coming back from injury, and actually lost their sharpshooter, Bogdanovic. For whatever reason, the Michael Conely trade really didn’t them any favors. He’s a far cry from the player he was in his best moments with the Grizzlies. I considered them a legit contender before the start of the season, but now I just can’t see how they will make out of the first round. Conley’s Gargantuan salary, with no production, cripples them.

  160. Leonam:
    I think the Utah Jazz are toasted. They have absolutely no bench besides Jordan Clarkson. They have no wild card player coming back from injury, and actually lost their sharpshooter, Bogdanovic. For whatever reason, the Michael Conely trade really didn’t them any favors. He’s a far cry from the player he was in his best moments with the Grizzlies. I considered them a legit contender before the start of the season, but now I just can’t see how they will make out of the first round. Conley’s Gargantuan salary, with no production, cripples them.

    They should have signed Lance Thomas

  161. This Clippers team is nasty, and they don’t even have Lou and Montrezl. Nothing like having 2 all-NBA players leading your squad who also happen to be superb defenders. And Beverly is like the Rodman of guards.

    They’re my favorite to win it all.

  162. Donnie Walsh:
    This is so much better than the regular NBA. I haven’t watched this much basketball in years.

    I don’t miss the fans, the noise, the mascots, the cheerleaders, the T-shirt cannons, the celebrity court-side interviews, the streakers, or the Knicks.

    The only thing I’d like back is the names on the jerseys because, without watching much tv over the past few years and only reading box scores, I have no idea what these guys look like.

    Contract the league to 22 teams. Play a 3 week regular season and a 3 month playoff, I’m in.

    agree…this is like watching the best pickup games…plus there is no home court ref bias…once this gets to the playoffs it’s going to be awesome…

  163. I’m gonna miss the Yankees so much in like 4 days when the season is (rightfully) cancelled

  164. d-mar:
    This Clippers team is nasty, and they don’t even have Lou and Montrezl. Nothing like having 2 all-NBA players leading your squad who also happen to be superb defenders. And Beverly is like the Rodman of guards.

    They’re my favorite to win it all.

    Mine too, since july 2019. They may have some trouble guarding Anthony Davis, but they are more than capable of handling LeBron, and their bench is clearly better than the Lakers’. I can’t see any team beating them 4 times out of 7 (even Antetokounmpo and the mighty Bucks). But I’ve been wrong many times before.

    (unlike Utah, the Lakers at least have a WILD card in Dion Waiters, someone who can get a bucket or two out of his hat).

  165. This Clippers team is nasty, and they don’t even have Lou and Montrezl. Nothing like having 2 all-NBA players leading your squad who also happen to be superb defenders. And Beverly is like the Rodman of guards.

    They’re my favorite to win it all.

    They’re so so so good, but wha’s wild is it’s not out of the question that they fall to the 3 seed and spend the first round praying Austin Rivers and Ben McLemore don’t get too hot.

  166. I’m gonna miss the Yankees so much in like 4 days when the season is (rightfully) cancelled

    Silver lining of being a Mets fan: I won’t miss them when the season is canceled

  167. I say LAC too.
    After they got Kawhi.
    They seem very heavily loaded to the point that they’re extremely dangerous even if one of PGeorge or Kawhi gets injured during the playoffs.
    Otoh if Giannis, LBJ or AD goes down i think its over for their team.

    But my heart belongs to Gianni
    Gia Gia Gia Gia Gia Gia Gia Gia Gia

  168. The Clippers are talented and very deep, and I’d probably favor them over the Lakers, but they are going to have trouble with the Lakers size

  169. All of the above were above or at least near their career averages. We had 17 players log minutes, that’s 9 of them. We had 2 rookies. So of the players with a career average we can use as a comparison, you literally have to ignore over half of them to make your point.

    17 players logged minutes but 4 of those 17 played less than 500 minutes. Another three of them logged the majority of their minutes at center in an offense where the center just needs to set screens, take open shots/dunks, and clean up misses.

    You are also proving my point when you say Keith Smart broke Dennis Smith Jr’s shot and Julius Randle was utilized poorly by his coaches. Mo Harkless was shooting around .590 with the Clippers in this, his age 26 season, then he comes to the Knicks and loses 60 points on his TS overnight.

    The offense the Knicks ran was terrible due to poor roster construction and poor coaching. I’m not ignoring half the roster, I am ignoring the noise in the statistics. The centers played well because duh. Frank Ntilikina shot a lot better because it’s hard not to improve on a .413 TS% or whatever it is he did last season. You don’t think keeping the guy who broke Wilt Chamberlain’s FG% record as a reserve is a poor coaching decision? Or insisting RJ Barrett play at the 2? Or running an Elfrid Payton/Bobby Portis 2 man game? All of that is obviously bad offensive coaching on a team that was going nowhere fast. Run your offense through Mitchell Robinson P&Rs and let RJ attack rotating defenses. Start Reggie Bullock/Wayne Ellington and Mitchell Robinson instead of Julius Randle and Taj Gibson. It’s one thing to be bad because you’re developing the young guys. It’s a fireable offense to be bad while getting in the way of player development.

  170. JK47: Silver lining of being a Mets fan: I won’t miss them when the season is canceled

    Luis Rojas already looks shellshocked, even through his mask. Somewhere Mickey Callaway is smirking.

  171. The Pacers RECEIVED three picks for taking on T.J. Warren, who looks to have one of the best non-rookie/non-max contracts in the league and isn’t yet 27. That’s nuts.

    We got Bobby Portis tho.

  172. thenoblefacehumper:
    The Pacers RECEIVED three picks for taking on T.J. Warren, who looks to have one of the best non-rookie/non-max contracts in the league and isn’t yet 27. That’s nuts.

    We got Bobby Portis tho.

    Kevin Pritchard is still one of the best executives in the NBA. It’s a shame we never hire a guy like that.

  173. Nba axiom
    Any player going to the knicks becomes worse

    Life tip
    No one ever lost by betting against the Knicks

  174. I am ignoring the noise in the statistics.

    Unless you start breaking out standard deviations and other actual statistical tools, then you’re not actually ignoring noise in the statistics.

    Putting more emphasis on Harkless’s half season with the Clippers rather than on his career TS% speaks to that.

    4 of those 17 played less than 500 min

    Speaking of small samples, DSJr and Ellington barely surpassed your arbitrary 500 minute cutoff. Harkless’s drop from the Clippers amounts to under 300 minutes. Maybe we should leave Bullock out too since he played under 700 minutes. This doesn’t help your argument because we just end up excluding a lot of the players you want to include.

    Another three of them logged the majority of their minutes at center in an offense where the center just needs to set screens, take open shots/dunks, and clean up misses.

    Are you counting Portis as a C? Because that seems kind of disingenuous. If were doing that, then why shouldn’t we exclude Randle too? He plays a different position than RJ.

    You are also proving my point when you say Keith Smart broke Dennis Smith Jr’s shot

    At no point did RJ look as broken as DSJR (either his shot or his demeanor), so I don’t think it makes much sense to generalize DSJR to the rest of the roster.

    So excluding small sample sizes, your evidence really amounts to Julius Randle and Elfrid Payton.

    I won’t do the math but I suspect that Payton’s .470 TS% isn’t really a statistical outlier from his career .499 TS% heading into the year. With a longer season, it probably would have regressed nearer his career TS%. Just looking at his previous seasons, his .538 TS% from 2 years ago is a bigger outlier and suggests that a .470 TS% is a reasonably random outcome. Again, he was coming off an injury which very well could have affected this number as well.

  175. as great as the games were on thursday/friday, duds all day today…

    to be honest though, I’ve watched like a week’s worth of games the last few days…I’m pretty basketballed out right now…

    got disney plus recently – for the kids :)

    right now going through the clone wars: final season the last couple of days, still in the first story arc: 705 -708…

    I started watching clone wars like five years ago – life has happened, and, I just finished the end of season six…that final arc though…

    sifo-dyas, yoda, dooku, dagaboh, and best of all – moraband…the sound and in particular animation have progressed to such an unbelievable point…

    yoda has been depicted in a lot of different ways over the years (I have the disney infinity yoda :), how he looks in 611 is easily his best…

    i know it’s “just a cartoon”, but, it’s one of my all time favorite series…I like the tone, similiar at times to rogue one…episode 110 locked me in…

    I’m hard pressed to recall another series though that simply got that much better as the show continued…

    I’ve heard the final arc (709 – 712) is some of the best work of the whole show…i’m so excited…

  176. The offense the Knicks ran was terrible due to poor roster construction and poor coaching. I’m not ignoring half the roster, I am ignoring the noise in the statistics.

    I find these words very encouraging, that’s it though – don’t do dumb stuff and you should at least hit 38 to 45 wins year after year…

    it’s not that hard to at least be average…just do not do: dumb shit…I have no idea why james dolan can not master that simple task when it comes to the new york knicks…his tenure has led to a statistically unlikely outcome…no one should be this bad, for this long…it’s like coming up tails, 18 out of 20 flips…it just shouldn’t happen…

    so yeah, we got nowheres to go but up…

  177. ***TJ Warren scored 53 points? What the fuck***

    He Jimmered a team that wasn’t the Knicks, oops.

  178. Yeah, we’ll when Jimmer had the Jimmer Award created in his name, he only scored 23 points, not 53.

    (Trivia question: what is Jimmer Fredette’s career high in China?)

  179. 75!

    He REALLY fucking Jimmered the Beijing BeiKong back in 2018. (They must be the Knicks of the Chinese league)

  180. ***I learned some things about TJ Warren tonight’***

    Like his name?

    And the team he currently plays for?

  181. It’s pretty much a foregone conclusion that AD is gonna get tired of playing with a bunch of losers and will come join the Knicks.

  182. Turning Frank Ntilikina into current OG Anunoby is kind of the best possible outcome for Frank Ntilikina, which is too bad, because current OG Anunoby is already current OG Anunoby and could have been had in the same draft.

  183. Donnie Walsh:
    ***I learned some things about TJ Warren tonight’***

    Like his name?

    And the team he currently plays for?

    I used to follow the Suns heavily during the Nash era. Since they traded Nash, the Suns have been mostly trash, with the lone good moment being the 2013-14 season (the campaign that propelled Jeff Hornacek’s brief career as head coach). They have been one of the worst run franchises in NBA for a decade. Their incompetence is not duly exposed only because there are worse situations around the league, as in Sacramento and New York City. They have made Knicksy moves for years.

    After overachieving in 2013-2014 with Hornacek, they traded for the up-and-coming Isaiah Thomas and went into 2014-15 with high expectations. When they didn’t meet those expectations, things unraveled. Since some of you seem to not know some of the blunders, I spent some time making a list of TRASH moves from 2015 onwards:

    – 2015: Phoenix trade Goran Dragic (reigning MIP) to Miami for 2 1st picks in 2018 and 2019 (not bad).

    – 2015: Trade Isaiah Thomas for Marcus Thornton expiring contract and Cleveland’s 2016 1st (horrific: Thomas was clearly a star in the making, and a 6MOY candidate with the Suns: in 2,5 months in Boston, he would be the Eastern Conference Player of the Week 3 times; a 1st from LeBron’s Cleveland was like a 2nd-round pick).

    – 2015: Trade a Lakers protected first-round pick (top 5 protection) to Milwaukee for Brandon Knight. So they started the year with Dragic-Bledsoe-Thomas and traded that for a Bledsoe-Knight backcourt. Bledsoe would soon say “I don’t wanna be here”, and the Lakers pick was known to be a high one at the time.

    (cont.)

  184. – 2015: Draft Kevin Booker with the 13th pick (good pick).

    – 2015: 5/70mil for Knight. He would play in 55 of 246 possible games in 3 years before he got traded (22% of appearances).

    – 2015: Sign Mirza Teletovic to a 1-year contract. Good move, as he would register the all-time NBA record in 3-pointers for a bench player that season, but the Suns left him walk during free-agency.

    – 2016: 23-59 record, 14th place in the Western Conference.

    – 2016: Select Dragan Bender with the 4th pick (bust, and they already had Alex Len – other failed pick – and Tyson Chandler).

    – 2016: Trade 13Th pick, 28th pick, rights for Bogdan Bogdanovic and Detroit’s 2020 2nd pick for the 8th overall pick (from Sacramento), which they use to draft Marquese Chris (some potential, but never realized).

    – 2017: Trade P.J. Tucker (expiring), a premium 3-and-D guy, for Jared Sullinger and two Toronto 2nd picks.

    – 2017: Select Josh Jackson with the 4th overall pick (right now, a bust, unfortunately).

    – 2017: Reportedly refuses to trade Bledsoe Jackson pick for Kyrie Irving. Dealbreaker: Jackson.

    2017: Resigns T.J. Warren for 4/50mil (good signing – Warren was already a steady scorer in the SF position and would develop into a good 3-pt shooter that season).

    – 2017: Fire the head coach Earl Watson 2 (two) games into the 2017-18 season, after Bledsoe asks for a trade.

    – 2017: Trade Bledsoe to Milwaukee for Greg Monroe, a protected 1st pick and a protected 2nd pick. Monroe would be waived 3 months after. They could have had Kyrie, but nah.

    – 2018: With the 1st overall pick, select Deandre Ayton, but pass on Luka Doncic.

    (cont.)

  185. – 2018: Trade Zhaire Smith and Miami’s 2021 1st pick for Mikal Bridges. –> Good deal, in general; one has to consider, HOWEVER, that Bridges was selected with the Lakers 1st round that was owned by Phoenix until they traded it to Milwaukee for Brandon Knight. The Bucks then traded the pick straight for the ROY Michael Carter-Williams, the ultimate Sam Hinkie deal.

    – 2018: Trade Brandon Knight’s contract to Houston, but have to add Marquese Chriss (a lottery pick in 2016) as sweetener.

    – 2018: 10 days before the season starts, the owner fires the GM.

    – 2018: The Suns trade for Memphis’ Dillon Brooks, while the Grizzlies thought they were sending MarShon Brooks. The rest of the league laughs and the trade is cancelled.

    – 2018: Trade Trevor Ariza for Kelly Oubre Jr. (great deal).

    – 2019: Fire coach Koskosov after 1 (one) season as head coach (3-year contract).

    – 2019: The Suns decline Bender’s fourth year option (rookie option), and he becomes a free agent.

    – 2019: Three-team deal in which the Suns trade T.J. Warren – a 25-year starter with 4 more years under contract – AND the 32th pick for cash considerations (horrific deal). Warren becomes the starting SF in a playoff team.

    – 2019: 2 years after not being traded for Kyrie Irving, Josh Jackson is traded to the Grizzlies, alongside 2 (TWO) 2nd-round picks (come on).

    Well, that’s it. You would be hard-pressed to find much worse 5-year runs. From 2014-2015 to 2018-2019, the Suns have won 30% of their games.

  186. (I should add: TJ Warren and Josh Jackson were basically traded for money and cap space).

    (Sorry for the brief Sunsblogger.net interruption)

  187. Imagine being as poorly ran as the Suns and still ending up with Booker, Oubre Jr, Bridges, and Ayton.

  188. Leonam, thanks for the info. Their point guard mess up was epic. What do you think of the suns owner?

  189. Has Hubert been banned? Haven’t heard from him in a couple days. He’s one of the dozen or so posters who’s takes I look forward to hearing. I know he was pretty worked up in the last thread

  190. He did make two blatant misogynistic comments, one of which was directed at Brian Cronin. I, for one, wouldn’t miss him.

  191. Fetch:
    Has Hubert been banned? Haven’t heard from him in a couple days. He’s one of the dozen or so posters who’s takes I look forward to hearing. I know he was pretty worked up in the last thread

    Feels like a few people were given a timeout the last few days. There appears to be a few regulars missing from the comments section since July 30.

  192. Actually hoping Hubert’s not banned. I appreciated his contrarian positions, not that I agree with any of them. But unlike Bob, he doesn’t take over entire threads with them. And his running battles with a few of our regular posters have added an amusement factor to the thread. He does need to get over the idea that offensive language used in the 60s (and that everyone knew was offensive then but that most people used anyway BECAUSE it was offensive [see cis/white/male etc. privilege]) is somehow still okay now. Lest he continue to feed Jowles’ anti-Boomer rants.

  193. To clarify, I don’t like seeing anyone banned. That said, there are certain posters who revel in being contrarian for its own sake, and who almost never back down no matter what evidence is presented against their opinions, and no matter how much their positions are grounded in their own “gut feeling” about the motivation behind decisions, or in some sketchy conspiracy theory.

  194. The only poster I ever supported banning here was reub. Because fuck reub. That’s what an actual, intentional troll looks like.

  195. I could do without the insulting sexist language, but like I said earlier, there’s lots of it (sadly) on sports forums.

    IIRC about reub, it got to the point where if you disagreed with him about almost anything you’d get a personal attack back.

  196. Reub had this fake simpleton character he would play because he knew it would get him lots of attention. He also offered up a “boys will be boys” defense of rape and said that homeless people are homeless because they are simply stupid.

    Garbage human being.

  197. It’s not just the language, it’s the needless provocation via a poor choice of words. Not that I’m perfect in that regard, but some just can’t resist the urge to make mountains out of molehills.

  198. “And his running battles with a few of our regular posters have added an amusement factor to the thread.”

    Z-Man, you are totally making my day…

  199. There was a point last year when I was getting unnecessarily petty in going after Hubert. Some posters sort of indirectly hinted at it being a weird obsession. I took the hint and backed off. We’ve since engaged in mostly non-insulting, if not respectful, back-and-forths.

  200. Didn’t reub re-emerge as GianiDani or something like that?

    He’s had a few over the years.

  201. TheClashFan:
    I could do without the insulting sexist language, but like I said earlier, there’s lots of it (sadly) on sports forums.

    Yeah, that and homophobic and transphobic language is still pretty common across most sports forums. And I can’t find a football forum (or a NY Giants one) where there isn’t barely concealed rampant racism.

  202. So, is Cespedes pulling a Derrick Rose on the Mets? If you missed it, he’s AWOL today.

    Sounds like it, but honestly, their statement was kind of sketchy, because the reports are now that they know that he is not in any danger, but they still released the statement about being unable to contact him, which is a pretty alarming thing to say, right? So it seemed designed to just shame Cespedes.

  203. This is exactly like the Derrick Rose situation.

    If it’s really 100% like the Derrick Rose situation Cespedes will be back in the lineup tomorrow and will face no discipline. So that’s an interesting question. Is Brodie Van Wagenen EVEN MORE incompetent than Phil Jackson? We’re about to find out!

  204. JK47:
    This is exactly like the Derrick Rose situation.

    If it’s really 100% like the Derrick Rose situation Cespedes will be back in the lineup tomorrow and will face no discipline. So that’s an interesting question. Is Brodie Van Wagenen EVEN MORE incompetent than Phil Jackson? We’re about to find out!

    Has he given a 5 year max contract with a no-trade clause to Cespedes? Than no, he isn’t more incompetent than Phil Jackson.

  205. BVW mortgaged the future of the Mets to “go for it” last year, and even proudly dared the rest of the NL, inc. the far superior Atlanta Braves, to “come get us.” He failed miserably. IIRC, he’s already traded away three former #1 picks and a #2 pick to add in veterans, yet couldn’t make the playoffs last year.

    He’s been brutal so far, even if Jared Kelenic doesn’t turn out to be the star player he sure looks like he’s soon to be…

  206. vincoug: Has he given a 5 year max contract with a no-trade clause to Cespedes?Than no, he isn’t more incompetent than Phil Jackson.

    No, but he did trade away a couple of blue chip prospects to take on 5 years and about $100 million of the declining Robinson Cano up to his age 40 season (Cano’s off to a fast start this season, but it won’t last). Oh, yeah, he got Edwin Diaz, too. And, no one’s trading FOR Cano now, so it might as well include a no-trade clause!
    :-)

  207. Z-man:
    It is unbelievable how bad Edwin Diaz has been. In fairness, no one could have predicted that.

    Sure, but relief pitchers are so volatile, you should not trade blue chip prospects for one like him AND take on a big contract (and five years’ worth) of a declining player who you totally don’t need. Diaz should’ve been the sweetener in the deal. Instead, BVW included two very tasty sweeteners…

  208. Brodie could have used the Cano money to lock up Zack Wheeler instead– the deal Wheeler got from Philly will probably be a wash in the last year or two but it was a five year deal covering his age 30-34 seasons. Instead we have Cano’s 37-40 seasons. I dunno, I think I’d rather take my chances on 33 year old Zack Wheeler than 39 year old Robinson Cano.

    Going forward they could have had deGrom, Wheeler, Syndergaard (they should extend him anyway after TJS), Matz and whichever one of David Peterson (has pitched well so far), Justin Dunn or Anthony Kay worked out. Instead he’s sending Rick Porcello and Michael Wacha out there to get their brains beaten in for 40% of the team’s starts.

    They could have had a young OF core of Nimmo, Conforto and Kelenic, with Alonso, McNeil and Rosario playing three of the infield spots. Find a third baseman, a catcher and some relief pitching in free agency and that is a really good core of talent.

    This was actually a hard situation to fuck up but he managed to do it.

  209. TheClashFan: No, but he did trade away a couple of blue chip prospects to take on 5 years and about $100 million of the declining Robinson Cano up to his age 40 season (Cano’s off to a fast start this season, but it won’t last). Oh, yeah, he got Edwin Diaz, too.And, no one’s trading FOR Cano now, so it might as well include a no-trade clause!
    :-)

    Oh, I’m not defending BVW he’s been godawful. I was against signing him to begin with and wanted to go with the analytics guy and not the agent. But as bad as he’s been he still isn’t give a max contract with an NTC to a 30-year old player who’s never been a top-10 guy, is coming off an injury, and looked washed up a season ago.

    Just saw this. Yoenis is opting out for the rest of the season.

  210. Just saw this.Yoenis is opting out for the rest of the season.

    I really really wonder if he was sulking and now opting out b/c they were DHing him rather than letting him play in the OF. Frankly, the Mets OF play has been pretty poor, so he might have a grief. If it really is about health, how about making a phone call?

  211. KnickfaninNJ:
    Red Sox Ace, 27, won’t pitch this season due to heart ailment linked to Covid-19.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/08/02/red-sox-ace-27-wont-pitch-this-season-because-heart-ailment-linked-covid-19/

    We were just talking about this the other day. That there are health outcomes for covid other than completely cured and death. Hopefully he’s able to recover. Scary stuff.

    TheClashFan: I really really wonder if he was sulking and now opting out b/c they were DHing him rather than letting him play in the OF.Frankly, the Mets OF play has been pretty poor, so he might have a grief. If it really is about health, how about making a phone call?

    Could be. I also wonder if the fact that we suck has something to do with it. Maybe he doesn’t want to risk another injury playing on a team in the midst of a lost season. And I wonder how many other players on bad teams would make that same decision.

  212. Lest he continue to feed Jowles’ anti-Boomer rants.

    I mean, just last week, my pension-holding Boomer (now ex-)boss tried to hard-sell me into staying with the company I had been with for the past seven years, saying they had “done a lot for me.” When I reminded him that I had received an offer for ~30% more money for roughly the same responsibilities — proving that they had been underpaying me relative to my market value — and did not have, unlike him and those of his age group, a pension for life, stock options and a five-week vacation cap (all phased out about 15 years ago), simply for having joined the company later than he did, he doubled down on the “but [company] has done a lot for you,” angle. That’s peak Boomer, and it’s a consequence of beliefs that appear to be based on one’s age and very little else. I don’t see how else to explain hypocritical/self-blind behavior that’s rooted in being born into a different era, all the while maintaining that younger generations are spoiled and privileged.

    But I don’t believe that Baby Boomers are inherently shitty. I just see OK Boomer as a movement that’s more about the shitty attitudes that are fairly common in their ranks.

  213. Even if the Mets were winning games they wouldn’t need Yo. If he could play in the field they’d be running him out there instead of Dom Smith and JD Davis, but apparently dude is not really healthy enough to play in the field. At this point Smith and Davis are probably both better hitters than Cespedes, so whatever, smell ya later big guy. Now you can get both of those guys in the lineup. We’re not winning anything anyway so might as well let the young guys take some cuts and play in the field.

    The smart thing to do would be to move Alonso to DH, let Smith play 1B and see if you can get Davis to play a reasonably decent LF.

  214. JK47:
    Even if the Mets were winning games they wouldn’t need Yo. If he could play in the field they’d be running him out there instead of Dom Smith and JD Davis, but apparently dude is not really healthy enough to play in the field. At this point Smith and Davis are probably both better hitters than Cespedes, so whatever, smell ya later big guy. Now you can get both of those guys in the lineup. We’re not winning anything anyway so might as well let the young guys take some cuts and play in the field.

    The smart thing to do would be to move Alonso to DH, let Smith play 1B and see if you can get Davis to play a reasonably decent LF.

    That’s basically what I would do too. I’d also like to see Cano playing more DH so we can get Gimenez in the lineup more often.

  215. But I don’t believe that Baby Boomers are inherently shitty.”

    Well phew, I’ll tell Jon Stewart, Nihad Awad, Ann Patchett, Barak Obama, and Esmeralda Simmons that they’re off the hook.

    Sounds to me like you work in a shitty industry with shitty people. You might like to pin the blame on the older ones, but I’ve found that shitty people make up the majority of people of any particular age group. There might be flavors, but when they’re treating you like shit the flavor doesn’t really matter.

    Maybe you should look for a job in a sector with a lower percentage of assholes. Hard to find, and they usually pay worse, but it might keep you from painting entire groups of people with a broad brush. Seems like that’s what we’re trying to get away from these days.

  216. Why are we talking about baseball and baseball management when we have so much incorrect group think on basketball that we should probably get past first?

  217. The Orlando Magic have a long way and a couple of star players to go to be good, but it’s starting to feel like the 100 year rebuild is finally leading to something worth watching.

  218. It’s going to be fun watching coach D’Antoni try to figure out how to stop Giannis with his small ball lineups tonight. Even if they can figure out how to drag Giannis out on the perimeter when they have the ball, he’s going to get so much of the best of any matchup against a small team it almost has to be a losing strategy. You can get away with that small ball nonsense if the other team doesn’t have a big that can score a lot, but not against a team that can take advantage inside.

    We already know how to how to slow Giannis down. You have to wall off the paint, force him to shoot outside as often as possible, and pray. The Rockets have one major chance. Randomly hitting way more 3s tonight than they will over the long haul.

  219. good for you jowles, get paid now…seven years at one spot is good…you can worry about all those work “intangibles” in another decade or so…compensation is definitely key at your stage in the workforce…

    if anything, hopefully you were able to also shorten your commute…

    who knows, maybe your “old” boss was simply (and clumsily) try to express how much he valued your contributions…

    kind of weird though when your employer expects some undying devotion for simply collecting your earnings…fuck, you do work you get paid and benefitted – otherwise, why show up at all…

  220. Lance Thomas started for the Nets today?

    I’m not sure what that says about the Nets.

    Lance Thomas hasn’t played well enough on defense consistently to warrant minutes on a good team since his first year or two in NY. He isn’t the defender he used to be. The advancing age and injuries caught up. You can’t sacrifice that much offense for what he brings on defense now even with Durant and Kyrie on the court, let alone the players they have. Maybe they just going through the motions and would rather not even be in the bubble.

  221. Instead of banning political talk, can we ban baseball talk??

    ***The Orlando Magic have a long way and a couple of star players to go to be good, but it’s starting to feel like the 100 year rebuild is finally leading to something worth watching.***

    FYI, the Magic played in the NBA finals within the past 10 years. (“how’s it goink, Knicks?)

  222. Let me tell you about the retirement terms I got as a member of the NYS teachers’ union vs. the terms that my boomer mom got for having joined earlier.

    That’s not enough to malign boomers, but the phrase “ok boomer” would be a response to someone of a certain age and its associated worldview saying “be grateful for what you’re offered.” I am not sure why this is a hot take.

  223. Z-man: To clarify, I don’t like seeing anyone banned. That said, there are certain posters who revel in being contrarian for its own sake, and who almost never back down no matter what evidence is presented against their opinions.

    Here’s the problem.

    This forum (like most) has attracted many like minded individuals on many issues. The sheer volume of support behind some common views makes it more difficult to fully appreciate what the other side is saying or thinking. That’s applicable to almost any group of like minded individuals on any subject.

    Go to Sloan and start focusing on playoff experience, ability to handle pressure, team chemistry, clutch play, hot hand, and some less tangible qualities and you will run into a little resistance.

    Go to TNT and talk to Shaq, Kenny and Charles about BPM and they’ll laugh at you.

    The thing is, people from all over the spectrum are bringing things to the table. The idea to fit it all into a coherent and more correct overall view, but that doesn’t happen unless you actually listen and are open to what others are saying. If you gain confidence in what you already think because you are surrounded by like mind people, it’s hurting your chances to learn.

    The biggest problem by far (I see this everywhere) is that the harder you try to change someone’s thinking, the more they dig in and the more closed minded they become. Then all is lost.

    There must be a way to lead a mule to water and make him think it was his idea. I just don’t know what it is or how to do it unless you are aware of it in yourself and actively battle it.

  224. Donnie Walsh: FYI, the Magic played in the NBA finals within the past 10 years. (“how’s it goink, Knicks?)
      

    2009? Wow. That seemed so long ago,

    So they’ve been rebuilding since 2010, It’s 2020, they finally have close to a decent team and are a few years away from being really good if they add or develop 2 more star players. I’m not impressed even though I finally like their team enough to watch. It’s not goink so well.

  225. Sorry Jowles but I think you’re wrong here. First, almost every suite of bosses will say, “be grateful for what you’re offered.” That’s their hardline negotiating job, for better or worse (I’ll say worse). Right now most bosses by dint of age and experience (admittedly not earned in many cases) are of the boomer class, making them the hateful pricks. But I’ll guarantee you that 25-30 years from now your kid (or nephew or niece if you don’t breed) will be hearing the same thing from his/her own asshole of a boss, who’ll be um, your generation I’m guessing.

    Second, it’s not just a ‘hot take;’ it can be considered age discrimination under the Federal Age Discrimination and Employment Act. I’m going to guess you’d be pretty disturbed by someone using derogatory, inflammatory or dismissive language against any particular gender, race, religion, national origin, disability or sexual orientation. So what makes ageism somehow okay?

  226. Don’t let Aaron Judge’s greatness distract you from the fact that my man Gio Urshela is also locked all the way in.

    Gonna miss these guys soon :(

  227. When someone holds an essentially facist POV that the media is the worst scum on earth, there is no reason to listen to them any further, since this perverted world view is probably integrated into how they feel about everything else. I have no interest in respectfully listening to fascists explain why the scientific community has it all wrong about everything, whether it is about the science of basketball analytics, or of COVID-19, or of global warming, etc. It is so disingenuous to call the vast majority of posters here who don’t respect posters like you or bobn “like-minded” because there are significant political and philosophical differences between various individuals in that camp. But the typical reaction of ignorant naysayers is “all you libruls yadayada…” and that is the shit you’re trying to pull here. I’m not buying it.

  228. I knew that “Boomers” is a nickname for the australian national teams.
    Here i learned that it’s a name for those born between ’46-’62.
    And from Google i found out that calling someone a boomer-or saying “ok boomer” if you’re a “millenial” (whaaat???!!!) can get you in trouble!

  229. Sorry Jowles but I think you’re wrong here.

    That’s fine. I’m responding in good faith and so are you.

    First, almost every suite of bosses will say, “be grateful for what you’re offered.” That’s their hardline negotiating job, for better or worse (I’ll say worse). Right now most bosses by dint of age and experience (admittedly not earned in many cases) are of the boomer class, making them the hateful pricks. But I’ll guarantee you that 25-30 years from now your kid (or nephew or niece if you don’t breed) will be hearing the same thing from his/her own asshole of a boss, who’ll be um, your generation I’m guessing.

    Maybe, but times are shitty right now. I may become their boss someday, but I’m not going to tell them to be grateful for getting shafted and condescended to by a group that had it better than they did.

    Second, it’s not just a ‘hot take;’ it can be considered age discrimination under the Federal Age Discrimination and Employment Act. I’m going to guess you’d be pretty disturbed by someone using derogatory, inflammatory or dismissive language against any particular gender, race, religion, national origin, disability or sexual orientation. So what makes ageism somehow okay?

    Well, we’re not talking about workplace conduct, here. It should never be okay to discriminate against any of those classes in the workplace.

    I’m talking about a particular worldview that owes itself to the particular set of conditions of its era, i.e. the greatest explosion of new wealth that this nation has ever seen, followed by a long period (under their guidance as a polity) of the recession of economic opportunity, equality and fairness.

    Saying “ok boomer” indicates that a person of that age group is being ignorant of some condition of the present day. It is not blanket discrimination against the age group. It is an attack on a worldview, often possessed by people of that…

  230. …age group.

    You can’t just go around dismissing people for being a certain age. You dismiss them for saying things like, “In my day, I worked full-time at Burger King and put myself through school on $2.50 an hour. Why can’t you?” (My mom did this, except she didn’t malign anyone for not working hard enough to succeed, etc. She was, however, oblivious that her hourly wage at that Burger King, and later hair salon, came out to anywhere between $18-24/hr in today’s money. We didn’t even get into the difference in cost of tuition.)

    Again, the phrase is an attack on a worldview first and foremost. It is not an attack for merely being old.

  231. lord knows just being old is attack enough on anyone’s person…

    yeah, age got nothing to do with being someone’s boss, although no doubt the older you get the more set in your ways you may be…

    there’s different ways of leading, but, from an employee perspective – I’ve always favored intelligence and faith in my bosses…so nice to work for someone with a decent moral compass, even better if they’re good problem solvers too…

  232. so goes the ohtani experiment…arm situation again…hmmmmm, maybe it’s time to take the hint – let the guy just bat…

  233. I don’t know how to reconcile the fact that MLB should almost certainly cancel the season immediately with the fact that I absolutely need Aaron Judge in my life right now

  234. “ so goes the ohtani experiment…arm situation again…hmmmmm, maybe it’s time to take the hint – let the guy just bat…”

    I’m thinking high-leverage reliever/closer. I don’t think you can give up on the two-way experiment just yet, it’s too valuable if it works out and he’s clearly individually talented enough at both.

    But yeah, doesn’t seem like SP1 and full time DH is sustainable.

  235. I’m  thinking high-leverage reliever/closer.

    ha, nice tnfh…after I posted that I started wondering the same thing…

    i don’t know though…i think this might be like the 3rd or 4th issue already with throwing…

    no doubt he’s an amazing talent…

  236. Last post from me on this because I don’t want it to turn into two guys squabbling (ban me!).

    Jowles you’re not wrong in the particulars of your argument, but I still think it’s myopic. I’m of a somewhat different generation than you, yet when I was 9 I used to sit on the curb with my best friend for hours talking about how the damn world was absolutely no question doomed — nuclear war, rivers burning, an endless litany (yeah I never got many dates). And it was those damn old guys who did it then, too. I guess in my case it was the silent generation, but before that it was the greatest generation, and before that the lost generation, and so on.

    You say YOU’LL never be condescending to kids on their way up when you get old(er). But that’s my whole point. Calling it “okay Boomer” right now paints everyone born between 1945-1964 as being that way. When the kids of today start calling your generation out for all the bullshit ‘your’ group will do between now and then (and trust me it will not be pretty), you’ll be all “Hey, it wasn’t me! I even have a thread back in 2020 where I specifically say I’d never do that!” But you DID call out 73 million other people for the same thing.

    Right. Back to our regularly scheduled discussion of how Mark Jackson morphed from one of the more joyful basketball players to watch to one of the more hateful announcers (and possibly people) around. (Hint to my point — it’s not a morph, it’s the same thing, seen from two different perspectives).

  237. Did you guys realize that those bizarre fan avatars they have at the games are real people watching the game at home? I mean, it’s fucking weird but actually kind of ingenious.

  238. I guess that not having Mark Jackson hired as NYK coach is worth the price of listening to his tired schtick.

  239. it was cool – jason tatum’s young son was one of those fans :)

    I had expected to hear more player chatter on the court, but, they’ve totally drowned out the court sounds…

  240. The Rockets’ defense is underrated. They’re tiny, but have a lot of switchable guys and have made Giannis’ life as hard as humanly possible.

  241. This is the kind of game that makes me skeptical of the Bucks’ title chances. They can be very shaky down the stretch of tight games

  242. Very nice win by the Rockets. I liked the way they spread Cream City out so that Westbrook could drive. Westbrook is like a mini-Giannis, less height but more speed.

  243. thenoblefacehumper: The Rockets’ defense is underrated. They’re tiny, but have a lot of switchable guys and have made Giannis’ life as hard as humanly possible.

    Agreed. Harden has improved on D and Westbrook’s intensity level is insane. He seems to be getting how good of a defender he can be. Speaking of which, Marcus Smart is really a menace out there.

  244. d-mar: This is the kind of game that makes me skeptical of the Bucks’ title chances. They can be very shaky down the stretch of tight games

    Yeah, I think the NBA champ is going to be the west winner. The Clips at full strength seem to have enough of everything to win….George, Kawhi, Montrezl, Lou and Beverly/Morris/whoever will be a great matchup for the Rockets small lineups.

  245. Nice 1-11 game for TH2 (while getting torched for 30 by Booker). Definitely don’t miss that guy.

  246. Ess I just looked at the box on that — TH2 missed a 27 ft 3pter with 2 seconds left but WTF KP taking a 62-ft 3pter with 5 second left? After a full time out? Anyone watch that? I’m presuming it’s not the world’s worst ATO…?

  247. Ess I just looked at the box on that — TH2 missed a 27 ft 3pter with 2 seconds left but WTF KP taking a 62-ft 3pter with 5 second left? After a full time out? Anyone watch that? I’m presuming it’s not the world’s worst ATO…?

    It’s a mistake. It was a long three, but not more than, like, 34 feet.

  248. When the kids of today start calling your generation out for all the bullshit ‘your’ group will do between now and then (and trust me it will not be pretty)

    Not to be mister jump in, but. Between Boomers coming up and Gen X coming up everything about American capitalism changed. Millennials have it worse than gen X did, and we have it exponentially worse than boomers. THCJ is rightfully calling out boomers, as the entire ok boomer shit is doing, for not recognizing the fundamental differences in the American capitalist landscape. For blaming younger generations for not succeeding based on norms that no longer exist. And giving him shit for not acting like those long gone norms still exist.

    The game changed. Most people who played the game the way they were told to are getting fucked over by the people who insisted this was how you must play the game. You shouldn’t be surprised or offended or whatever when those people punch back. It’s like being shocked and offended that offense matters more than defense after the league changed the rules to make offense matter more than defense.

  249. As a person born in 1958, I have no issue with the ok boomer moniker, my girls get a kick out of it. But be careful when making generalizations about how good boomers had it compared to later generations. Maybe it’s true in terms of job security and benefits, but the menu of options available to millenials/GenZ on so many fronts is exponentially greater. And not all boomers are equal. The advantages were mainly enjoyed by middle-class or above White, straight men. And even for them, the expectation for the vast majority was that you would get married in your late teens or early 20’s and work at a job that didn’t require more than a high school education, and was probably somewhere near where you grew up. Then there was this thing called the draft. Things like anxiety and depression, ADHD, autism spectrum, etc. were poorly understood and resulted in horrible stigmatization. Stuff like that gets swept under the rug.

    Since this is a sports blog, just think of how today’s athletes have it compared to boomer generation athletes.

    THCJ’s situation is more about his boss being a dick than a boomer. There were plenty of dick bosses back in the boomer days, including those from the greatest generation who would sneer at anyone who didn’t salute the flag and keep his hair short. Many were racist and sexist, and nearly all were homophobic.

    What was considered to be middle class back then would feel like poverty today in so many regards.

  250. I also think that younger people today have lots to look forward to. Boomers are on their way out, and with them goes much of the remaining obstacles to universal health care, combatting global warming, achieving social justice, etc. The continuing empowerment of women will bring more sanity to leadership at all levels (if you haven’t figured out that women are kicking men’s ass all over the workplace in all regards, you aren’t paying attention.)

  251. abc/espn really need to do better with the fake crowd. Celtics/Blazers was a very entertaining game that I eventually had to mute because the crowd was drowning out even the announce team

  252. This is pretty much “old news” in non mainstream sources, but it was nice to see CNN actually cover it properly even if very late. It’s basically saying what I’ve been saying in recent weeks. A significant portion of the population is already immune or naturally resistant to Covid-19 (probably via T-Cells and prior exposure to another coronavirus). The biology is way over my head, but the math is not. If 50% are immune (the estimate), that means the HIT rate (point at which the virus growth slows sharply) and ultimately herd immunity rate is probably around 25% (give or take a few percent depending on the conditions and vulnerability in that community).

    That’s what the data has been suggesting and that’s what a few stats guys have been saying all along.

    The math for herd immunity changes drastically if everyone is not equally susceptible and everyone is not an equal spreader. The great news in NYC over the last few weeks probably has little to do with social distancing, masks etc.. It’s that over 25% of the people have been exposed and were positive and the virus is running out of vulnerable people to inject. Places like Forida, Texas etc… weren’t exposed to the virus as early as NYC was. They are playing catch up as will everyone else that either got lucky or locked down totally and delayed the inevitable.

    None of this is an argument against trying to keep it under control or against protecting the vulnerable with masks, quarantine, distancing etc.. We still don’t want hospitals overrun and people we care about to get sick. However, It’s data, a theory, and potentially great news that has been out there for months that no one was covering. You had to do research on your own.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/02/health/gupta-coronavirus-t-cell-cross-reactivity-immunity-wellness/index.html

  253. Z-man:
    Budz got outcoached this game

    It’s shocking but probably true.

    Giannis and Lopez did well against the small ball lineups, but I think the Rockets did a great job of stripping the ball when the Bucks went inside. The Bucks had 22 TOs. It seemed like a lot of them were strips inside the paint or going inside.

    That matchup is no contest if they meet in the finals. The Bucks are not going to be that sloppy and blow games like that when they are in better form for the playoffs. But I doubt we’ll see that finals because Houston’s small ball is not going to get by the Lakers or any team that can punish them with a big man. They’ll have a huge edge with their 5 out spacing against teams that can’t punish them back, but the Bucks and LA can and will.

  254. The Boomers care very much about the future. They have children, grandchildren etc.. to worry about.

    Here’s the generational difference.

    The boomers are decades older. They’ve already been through so many doom and gloom scenarios in their life like global nuclear war, a new ice age, imminent mass starvation, potential plague, holes in the ozone layer etc.. that they have a natural and well deserved distrust of doom and gloomers from within and outside science. They are willing to behave responsibly and change, but they are not going to blow up everything about their lives because they are terrified of the latest threat. They’ve seen these kind of things a thousand times already and they know things are never as bad at the doom and gloomers suggest and they know the media is always hyping.

  255. Mike D’ Antoni is a mad scientist. He needs 3tment.
    Budz needs serious playoff adjustments.
    Giannis needs Hakeem post moves to get the ring since his 3 is still raw.
    And i need vacations.

  256. I thought Doncic played one of his smarter games last night even though they lost.

    He’s a good outside shooter. His 3p% is bad (lower than Frank’s this year lmao) because of all the trash shots he throws up. Last night he limited that a bit. If he would limit the trash his 3p% would rise significantly. He should take the solid 3 when they give it to him, but mostly he should go to the basket where he’s a magician. He’ll either score or get fouled practically every time.

    The whole point of having 4 players out and a C like KP is to create space for Doncic to get to the hoop. So just keep doing that and forget about all the step back and side step 3s and other trash he throws up. There’s so much talent there, but he has to learn how to use it. He has so much talent and can do so many things well on offense, he has to learn that some of what he can do is not worth doing – even for him.

  257. things are never as bad at the doom and gloomers suggest

    outstanding student loan debt currently stands around $1,500,000,000,000 but ok ________

  258. Didn’t know that…
    Very interesting

    “All 2019-20 NBA Restart games are played across three venues at the ESPN Wide World of Sports Complex in Orlando, Florida and tipped off on July 30. At the conclusion of the seeding games, if the eighth seed is four games or fewer ahead of the ninth seed, those teams would compete in a play-in tournament to determine the eighth playoff seed.”

  259. So the Knicks had 2 wins less for the bubble and 2 wins more for the bottom of the east.
    How do you call that ?
    I call it: Stuck in the middle with… shit!

  260. good for you jowles, get paid now…seven years at one spot is good…you can worry about all those work “intangibles” in another decade or so…compensation is definitely key at your stage in the workforce…

    if anything, hopefully you were able to also shorten your commute…

    who knows, maybe your “old” boss was simply (and clumsily) try to express how much he valued your contributions…

    kind of weird though when your employer expects some undying devotion for simply collecting your earnings…fuck, you do work you get paid and benefitted – otherwise, why show up at all…

    Thanks, geo. It’s a company that prides itself on longevity (but that was from a bygone era of pensions, etc.). They definitely did not want to lose me, especially right now. My thought is that they should have paid me more. And yeah, I did say that since I have no forward-looking compensation (my 401k has been fully vested for a few years), the company and I were all settled up. Loyalty is something they can ask of you, but I know for damn sure that if it were in the corporate interest, I’d be laid off in a heartbeat. Last thing I want to do is be loyal to a bunch of shareholders that couldn’t care less about me, except for the profits I generate above the cost of my employment.

  261. Still remember the moment a young(and not so smart as it seemed)man who was about 20yrs old was talking about a 50yrs old co-worker of ours calling him “old man” to me while i was 42yrs old.
    It felt awkward, dividing and sad…

    (That’s not directed against Jowles/ I understood his thinking/Just wanted to express my sadness on disrespectful behaviour)

  262. And Socrates supposedly railed against “the youth of Athens,” calling them disrespectful of their elders, lazy, entitled, etc. And so the world turns…

  263. Knew Your Nicks:
    So the Knicks had 2 wins less for the bubble and 2 wins more for the bottom of the east.
    How do you call that ?
    I call it: Stuck in the middle with… shit!

    @KYN, If I were still a member, I would certainly be nominating you for membership in the Friar’s Club. You have the rare gift of schtick
    https://friarsclub.com/

  264. I have a bunch of nieces and nephews in their 20’s and 30’s who are extremely bitter about the world we’re leaving them. And most of that has to do with the fact that by the time they’re in their 50’s and 60’s, half the world is going to be underwater and 98 degree days in the summer are gonna be pretty much the norm.

  265. @clashfan
    According to historians Socrates lived somewhere close to the area where i live for 44yrs.
    There’s definitely something in the water…Or the air…or the sun!

    @Bo
    Thanks man! I could use a little fun after all this sadness with the youths!!!

  266. Nick Nurse wuz robbed. The Toronto coach was one vote shy of making the Coach of the Year a three-way tie. As it were, Budz and Billy Donovan tied for the award, Budz’ third Coach of the Year Award (good thing the Knicks felt it was more important to hire a coach who wouldn’t want some say in the roster, like Fizdale).

  267. Loyalty is something they can ask of you, but I know for damn sure that if it were in the corporate interest, I’d be laid off in a heartbeat. Last thing I want to do is be loyal to a bunch of shareholders that couldn’t care less about me, except for the profits I generate above the cost of my employment.

    i’ll tell ya – at your age jowles you’re way ahead of where i was in regards to figuring out the workplace…

    I didn’t get what was going on til about 40 or so when i switched from management to just being a team member…i was managing some 3PL shit for penske…the customer was long’s drugs – i used to get calls all day and night…one time i remember getting called at 11pm and then again at 2am…that and the fact i didn’t get along with the customer pushed me to getting out of the situation…

    i’ll never forget getting in to an argument with the customer…fucker yelled at me over the phone…that pissed me off soooooo much, if you’re gonna try yelling at me make sure it’s in the same room so we can come to an understanding more quickly…i’m definitely no big bad ass, i don’t even like confrontation, but, i can get pretty animated myself…

    a good friend of mine gave me great advice at the moment: either shit or get off the pot…if you don’t want to invest yourself 100% – get out of the situation…

    i was lucky and the guy who put me up for that job actually gave me back my old job….about six months later i requested to leave the management team and become a clerk…i was lucky again they let me do that, that’s not normal career progression…

    point of the story though – once i became a clerk and started interacting with other team members on a different level i quickly realized: these other folks are just showing up to pay their bills…in management they push this idea that you have some higher responsibility (or ownership) in the company…

    it’s bullshit, you’re just a cog of a different flavor…

  268. Alot of talk last night about how the Bucks defensive philosophy of defending the paint at all times and allowing a ton of 3pters is going to doom them once again in the playoffs. It was pretty astonishing at the amount of wide open 3pters the Rockets were able to generate seemingly at will against the Bucks D.

  269. shooting (60) 3 pointers in a game is like a cheat code in basketball…

    what happened to bledsoe? the bucks need another ball handler outside of middleton and hill…

  270. “I’d care about the future but the absence of a nuclear war means climate change/student debt/ect is nothing to worry about” is a really bracing take. I’m totally convinced!

  271. man, i can’t believe that washington state coach said that…i wonder if they have it in writing or recorded…how dumb…it’s one thing to do sideways stuff, it’s another level of arrogance and stupidity though to broadcast it…

    nice game going on between the heat and raptors, so good to see the east with four or five really competitive playoff teams this year…

  272. @BobbyMarks42
    Remove Toronto (the favorite) from the equation and the hard part is identifying a team willing to spend good $$ (think 18-20M) on Fred VanVleet- Projected teams w/room- Atlanta, Charlotte, Detroit, Miami and New York. Might come down to the Raptors bidding against themselves.

    What is the contract amount at which you’d be comfortable signing VanVleet as a free agent? Does a number exist, or would the loser’s tax make him not worth even considering?

  273. 4 years at an aav of $22 mil…start at 19, end at 24…

    the chances of getting an impact point guard in the draft are just so rare…

    i’m not sure what this means: would the loser’s tax make him not worth even considering?

  274. geo:
    4 years at an aav of $22 mil…start at 19, end at 24…

    the chances of getting an impact point guard in the draft are just so rare…

    i’m not sure what this means: would the loser’s tax make him not worth even considering?

    I think that is right in the sweet spot but Toronto likely will pay to keep him…is Lowry near the end of his deal?

  275. the raptors have lowry under contract for one more year at 30 million…yeah, they ain’t letting fvv go…

  276. i’m not sure what this means: would the loser’s tax make him not worth even considering?

    It means we’d have to overpay to get a good player — or even a mediocre FA — to sign here, because we’ve been so terrible for so long. See also every single contract we handed out last summer, the uninsured Amare max deal, etc. FVV is really good, would be our best point guard since at least Marbury (to revisit a recent conversation) and would probably do wonders for Mitch, RJ, and maybe some of our other prospects, while also not forcing us to reach for a PG in this weird draft. But is he worth $22 mil a year, or more?

  277. I think they really need to go for FVV because he’s exactly what they claim to be looking for: a point guard who can shoot.

    He’s not the perfect player, but he should still be movable, even with an overpay (unless he gets injured). And if a top free agent actually wants to sign with us, we can attach a pick to FVV’s contract if need be.

    But yeah, he’d be great for Mitch and RJ’s development. Even Frank’s. But I think Toronto will pay him because Lowry is lookin old.

  278. But is he worth $22 mil a year, or more?

    What are we gonna do with that $22M otherwise?

    This past year we spent $23M on Bobby Portis and Elfrid Payton. There are a lot dumber ways to spend $22M than to give it to a decent point guard.

  279. We shouldn’t be paying for FVV. Nick Nurse is maybe the best offensive mind in basketball and FVV has only ever been a Raptor. I do not think he will as good as he is now, and he only has a .546 TS% for the season. Sadly outside of trading for one of CP3, Dennis Schröder, or Terry Rozier I do not think the Knicks will have an above average operator at the point guard spot.

    If we want to build this thing the right way, we should draft Devin Vassell and Grant Riller with our first round picks this year. Build that defense around Frank, RJ, Vassell, and Mitch and let Riller develop via G League or as the back up PG. I’d also sign DJ Augustin to a one year deal and let him give us the competence we thought Elfrid Payton would give us. Maybe try to swing a trade for Anthony Simons in Portland or Tyus Jones in Memphis if Augustin is too old.

  280. I don’t see us drafting below #8, and I don’t think Vassell gets picked in the top-8 under any circumstances. Not saying he doesn’t deserve to be. Some argue that guys like Wiseman and Okongwu are not top-10 worthy b/c of their diminished positional value in today’s NBA but I think they both go in the top 8. The other 6 are likely to be LaMelo (lock), Edwards (lock), Toppin (lock), Hayes (ugh, highly likely), Haliburton (likely) and Avdija (likely). I also think teams are going to take a long look at Okoro in the top-8. His motor is off the charts, so maybe some team thinks that his shot will come around (hopefully not us!)

  281. Whatever number lets the Knicks have room for a max contract in 2021, that’s how much they should offer FVV. They’re pretty clearly not development focused, so the hopes are on Giannis or AD or someone being enticed, and FVV is the only available PG that could potentially set up the success necessary.

    I hope they don’t offer anything though. Feel like Fred will be the kind of Knick that’ll be almost but not quite good enough and I won’t even be able to be mad about it because he’ll be playing smart and trying so hard.

  282. I don’t think FVV is worth $20+ million a year on a long-term deal. He’s a nice piece on a food team but not a top-3 player. And Toronto would match anything less than that. I think he winds up staying put.

  283. ‘Raptors-Heat is the first game with both the names and social messages on the backs of the jerseys.’

    Thank goodness. Love the messages, but haven’t watched enough games lately to know all the players on all the teams by face (especially with these dirty glasses). And most announcers these days talk over the action about arcane strategies or not-so-clever repartee rather than any attempt at play-by-play such as “so-and-so drives the lane…”

  284. because we’ve been so terrible for so long

    oh, you were calling us losers – that hurts al…

    it really takes some humbling to be here you know…hey, but, just because the knicks can’t do it – doesn’t mean we can’t figure out this lingering (i don’t even know how many years it’s been now) point guard situation…

    these days, it’s not even really a point guard thing – just find someone: 1 thru 5 that can handle the ball, help get folks in the right place and facilitate as well as score…

    elf (when healthy) was a tease…the stretch where he was averaging 10 assists a game…how nice would that be to have a competent and consistent facilitator on the floor…can’t really do that if you can’t shoot…

    imposible para la nuevo york lujoso calcetines…

  285. I’m a big proponent of the “acquire assets” philosophy but if you’re going to spend on a free agent, a competent point guard is not a bad thing to spend on. It’s not like whatever marginal few millions of dollars here and there is going to be keeping us from a run at glory. In a vacuum FVV is not a guy I’d want to sign to a max contract but the Knicks’ decades-long suckitude is kind of a unique situation.

  286. I don’t see us drafting below #8, and I don’t think Vassell gets picked in the top-8 under any circumstances.

    I see what you’re saying, but I think Vassell is better at defense than all of those guys are at offense and has the potential to develop an off the bounce game. He’s also shot 40% from deep over his two seasons at FSU. Chances are if we’re not drafting LaMelo Ball, we’re not getting our point guard of the future. Guys like Vassell, Avdija, and Toppin feel a lot safer than the rest of the bunch, and a Vassell/Robinson combination feels like too much to pass up.

  287. JK I disagree, because $20+million non-superstar PGs are just as often bad investments as good. There’s really nothing in his advanced stats that suggests he’s worth that kind of money.

  288. They’re pretty clearly not development focused

    yep, that’s sure what it seems like…say one thing, do another…all those weird 1 and 1’s last season smelt like that…

    if not fvv, this may be it:

    swing a trade for Anthony Simons in Portland or Tyus Jones in Memphis if Augustin is too old.

    shit, we should have paid rubio :)

    kind of like the heat did with bringing in dragic…get someone in there that you know can do the job, then upgrade…

    thinking of a rookie not named ja or luka coming in to run the offense on a team with a lot of roster turnover, is not good…who knows, maybe one of the top ranked young guys will surprise, but…

    as much as i love me some frank, the thought of starting the season with him as our starting point guard doesn’t instill a lot of confidence in our improvement next season…who knows – i’ve doubted frank before…

  289. I just think that for a team like ours, PG is a position we should continue to try to fill via the draft or low-level trade. You almost always overpay for RFAs, and why mess up a good cap situation on an overpay, especially in this buyer’s market? Let’s try to find FVV 2.0.

  290. Wow, 37 points for Mike Porter Jr. Maybe we should’ve hired the Nuggets’ GM?

    Bol and Porter could be huge contributors for them down the road. Knox? Maybe not so much.

    Goes to show, you should draft elite ball skills over physical prowess every time.

  291. Z-Man, I agree– shelling out max or near-max contracts for non-elite players is not my style.

    But the guard play on this team is just SO FUCKING SHITTY that it kills everybody’s development. Signing FVV probably wouldn’t be the most ideal, optimal thing this team could do but at least we wouldn’t be trying to play and develop players with a whole phalanx of point guards who have no hope of ever throwing the ball into the basket or creating any offense.

  292. JK47:
    Z-Man, I agree– shelling out max or near-max contracts for non-elite players is not my style.

    But the guard play on this team is just SO FUCKING SHITTY that it kills everybody’s development. Signing FVV probably wouldn’t be the most ideal, optimal thing this team could do but at least we wouldn’t be trying to play and develop players with a whole phalanx of point guards who have no hope of ever throwing the ball into the basket or creating any offense.

    Agreed that he wouldn’t likely be a disaster, but any overpay at this point is not a good idea. Mark my words, there will be many bargains to be had in the next couple of years, including at PG.

  293. Wow, 37 points for Mike Porter Jr. Maybe we should’ve hired the Nuggets’ GM?

    I’ve never seen a player over 7’0″ move like Bol does. Could have been a Knick, but we wouldn’t want to go waste any 2nd rounders. That would be very very not good!

  294. FVV seems like one of those players who’s in an ideal situation with talented teammates and a very good coach, but when you shift him to being the best player on a team (like the Knicks) it’s not gonna work out too well for anyone.

  295. d-mar:
    FVV seems like one of those players who’s in an ideal situation with talented teammates and a very good coach, but when you shift him to being the best player on a team (like the Knicks) it’s not gonna work out too well for anyone.

    I agree. He’s a good, smart player, but his value was in his low salary more than anything else. At $20 mil, there are only 12 PGs making that or more: Brogdan, Holiday, Russell, Lillard, Irving, Conley, Kemba, Lowry, Wall, Westbrook, Paul, Curry. I don’t think FVV fits in with that group, although you could make an argument he is similar to Brogdon @ exactly $20mill. Then there’s a group between $15-20 mill: Rozier (overpaid!), Dragic, Teague (overpaid), Rubio, Knight (ugh!), Bledsoe and Schroder. The top of that group seems more like the group where FVV belongs. So $18mil/4 years or $20 mill/3 years seems okay, but anything above that is probably too much.

  296. FVV is a tough call in the low $20s, the absolute minimum it would take. One interesting wrinkle: this year in 900 mins with lowry he’s at 14.5 pts 5.7ast per 36 TS 50.6. In 800 mins without lowry he’s at 22.3 pts 8.0 ast TS 58.

  297. for the crowd that is looking for some sort of near term wins then fvv is pretty appealing…. i’ve been on record before that finding a capable pg in FA is much easier than the draft since… as we have discovered ourselves… the draft can be a crapshoot on the pg front even with a good pedigree….. and in almost all cases it takes awhile for them to develop and come into their own….

    fvv isn’t perfect…. he’s short and his penetrating ability is a bit lacking but he’s a good player…. and just like with randle it would be sort of a gamble…. when you’re shopping in the less than mega superstar tier you’re going to deal with imperfect players…. and there aren’t any mega superstars coming our way….

    i am more in the christian wood camp now though especially given randle’s immense struggles this season….. but i wouldn’t be totally opposed to vanvleet… there are worse things you can do than give money to a young talent……

  298. If All the PGs were available every off-season and teams could get anyone they wanted I’d say “Why pay much for a Non Elite PG” ?
    But under these rules of nba contracts and also under Knicks’ PG drought i say:
    If you find him good enough for 18M give him 5M more and grab him.
    The PG position is possibly the most crucial one.
    If you feel he’s gonna regress keep searching…

    Have in mind tho that there aren’t many quality pgs available Whenever You want them…

    Remember avoiding getting KLowry back in 2013 ? But at least we got Jose Calderon a year after…

  299. i will say though between killian hayes and kira lewis that if you want a pg in this draft you can absolutely come away with a very capable and likely foundational piece on that front…… you can throw in haliburton too who’s more in the ‘may work out may not’ camp…..

  300. Jose FKN Calderon
    He played 114 games as a Knick
    He started 114 games as the PG
    He played close to 30mpg…

  301. djphan:
    for the crowd that is looking for some sort of near term wins then fvv is pretty appealing…. i’ve been on record before that finding a capable pg in FA is much easier than the draft since… as we have discovered ourselves… the draft can be a crapshoot on the pg front even with a good pedigree…..and in almost all cases it takes awhile for them to develop and come into their own….

    fvv isn’t perfect…. he’s short and his penetrating ability is a bit lacking but he’s a good player…. and just like with randle it would be sort of a gamble…. when you’re shopping in the less than mega superstar tier you’re going to deal with imperfect players…. and there aren’t any mega superstars coming our way….

    i am more in the christian wood camp now though especially given randle’s immense struggles this season…..but i wouldn’t be totally opposed to vanvleet… there are worse things you can do than give money to a young talent……

    But we have the time right now to be patient. If the cap is around $100-110 mill, do you want to be tying up 1/5 or more of the cap in FVV? A guy with a 2.4 BPM, 1.9 VORP and .137 WS48? He’s not a high-assist guy and doesn’t get to the rim or to the line?

  302. Christian Wood has more upside and downside than FVV. I’m leery of him as well, but at the right price, why not?

  303. Wow, 37 points for Mike Porter Jr. Maybe we should’ve hired the Nuggets’ GM?

    It would have been nice had they just named Arturas Karnisovas the Team President, like Chicago did. Instead, they got Leon Rose as President and he obviously liked Karnisovas, but who’s taking GM when another team is giving him President duties?

  304. Dphan, help me out here. Why are two guys who are worse at overall shooting, 3pters, rebounds, assists, and turnovers “good choices,” while the guy who’s better than them at all those things is a “maybe, maybe not” for you? The “maybe” guy also has more length than the other two. At least Hayes weighs in at 215, so that’s something — but Lewis is 165 lbs!

  305. Raven:
    Dphan, help me out here. Why are two guys who are worse at overall shooting, 3pters, rebounds, assists, and turnovers “good choices,” while the guy who’s better than them at all those things is a “maybe, maybe not” for you? The “maybe” guy also has more length than the other two. At least Hayes weighs in at 215, so that’s something — but Lewis is 165 lbs!

    People have been dinging him for his athleticism and ability to shoot off the dribble. In a normal draft that would probably be enough to drop him near the end of the top 10 but this draft is terrible and all the prospects have major bust potential except him. He’s got such a high floor I’d honestly take him 1st overall and there’s no way he should drop out of the top 5.

  306. just because someone is better at 3s doesn’t make them a better shooter…. hayes and lewis are better shooters in just about every situation except catch and shoot….. and that matters because shooting off the dribble is a key skill for someone who handles the ball… if you’re not a threat there then you are limited as a threat period… that’s one of lonzo’s biggest problem…. and that’s the problem haliburton has….

    and not being a scoring threat is a big ding to his overall value and ultimately his upside…. no amount of height can really overcome that…. height is what made the jazz pick deron williams over chris paul….

    lewis and hayes are beasts driving to the rim…. there’s real ability there… overall handle and instincts for the position are just what you are looking for as a primary ballhandler….. halliburton is sort of like a different kind of pg… it’s almost like a ricky rubio type of situation or calderon where he’s just not going to be much of a threat scoring wise…. and you’re depending on all the secondary stuff making up for it…. im not sure it does…

    that being said… haliburton is nice…. i have him in my top 10… he’s not better than the other two tho….

  307. @djphan

    Come on. Lonzo’s problems go way beyond not being able to shoot off the dribble. He shot 54% on FT this year which is the first time he’s shot over 50% as a pro.

  308. yea i get that… but it’s not like we have enough of a sample that halliburton isn’t gonna turn into that… i think he has less free throws than lonzo had in college…. and i’m pretty sure he’s gonna have to tweak his shooting motion…

  309. Who is this Jared Hughes guy?
    :-)

    Glad to see Jake get a rare win.

    As for the Knicks offering FVV $20+ million, I don’t know. That’d be an interesting decision.

  310. From the end of a Berman piece that’s otherwise about Scott Perry’s feelings regarding his new head coach:

    Perry will run the draft, to be staged Oct. 16, and deserves heavy credit for tabbing RJ Barrett at No. 3 last June and plucking Mitchell Robinson in the second round at No. 36 in 2018. There was internal support to pass on Barrett and trade back for point guard Darius Garland, among others, to snare an extra pick.

    The Robinson selection is so golden it partially makes up for Perry taking Kevin Knox at No. 9 over Mikal Bridges, Michael Porter Jr., Donovan Mitchell and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander.

    Perry has assembled seven first-round picks in the next four drafts with cap flexibility — all factors in Thibodeau’s decision to not wait for potential openings in Houston, Philly and Brooklyn.

    While Thibodeau is the sensible candidate to rep the Knicks during lottery proceedings Aug. 20, make no mistake: This is still Perry’s draft.

  311. So Scott Perry drafted Knox, Robinson, Barrett, and Brazdeikis? If he didn’t totally and completely fuck up the Knox pick I’d be confident he can get a good player wherever we end up picking. But that Knox pick is so terrible, I’m just going to hold my breath.

    And if you like FVV go watch some Grant Riller highlights. That’s the kid we need.

  312. djphan:
    yea i get that… but it’s not like we have enough of a sample that halliburton isn’t gonna turn into that… i think he has less free throws than lonzo had in college…. and i’m pretty sure he’s gonna have to tweak his shooting motion…

    True, he hasn’t taken as many FTs as Lonzo did but he’s still hit them at a higher rate than Lonzo: 77% vs 67%. And even if he does need to tweak his shooting motion it’s not like it’s totally broken like Lonzo who has the weirdest shooting motion in modern NBA history.

  313. There was internal support to pass on Barrett and trade back for point guard Darius Garland, among others, to snare an extra pick.

    The trade back target should’ve been Clarke.

    Mills FO definitely wasn’t reading knickerblogger.

  314. vincoug: True, he hasn’t taken as many FTs as Lonzo did but he’s still hit them at a higher rate than Lonzo: 77% vs 67%.And even if he does need to tweak his shooting motion it’s not like it’s totally broken like Lonzo who has the weirdest shooting motion in modern NBA history.

    Obviously you missed the entire Matrix era…

  315. Z-man: Obviously you missed the entire Matrix era…

    Nope, I saw plenty of Marion and Joakim Noah. Neither player has as weird a shooting form as Lonzo who shoots with his right hand but on the left side of his head.

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