NY Post: Mike Woodson officially back with Knicks after unceremonious firing

From Marc Berman:

More than six years after Phil Jackson never met with him to discuss the possibility of coaching the triangle, Mike Woodson is officially back with the Knicks.

The Knicks finally announced the rest of their coaching staff under Tom Thibodeau with Woodson, Utah’s Johnnie Bryant, Andy Greer and Dice Yoshimoto being officially named. The Knicks had already announced Kenny Payne’s hiring so the University of Kentucky could move on in replacing him.

“With these hires, we have added a wealth of basketball experience and knowledge that will be of great service to our players and our organization,” Thibodeau said in a statement. “All of our coaches have had a high level of success in college, the NBA or internationally. We are assembling a hard-working and well-rounded coaching staff that will embody everything we want to be about: accountability, development, teaching and a winning culture.”

The Knicks were waiting for Bryant to be done with his Jazz duties as Utah was eliminated in Game 7 of the first round by Denver on Tuesday.

According to a source, there’s a good chance Larry Greer, Andy’s brother, will be added to the organization in some capacity. Larry Greer was with Thibodeau in Minnesota and most recently coached last season in Phoenix.

Nothing new, just official now that Bryant is out of the playoffs, but Jowles wanted a new thread and there is nothing else new about the Knicks, so here ya go…it’s something!

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333 thoughts to “NY Post: Mike Woodson officially back with Knicks after unceremonious firing”

  1. ah, a fresh canvas with which to work – let’s see where it leads us all…

    just kidding…

    bucks looking a little better so far…still – we’ll see what happens come the fourth quarter…

    i am curious to hear what reasons woody may have for returning to new york – other than like good pizza and bagels…mmmmmm, pizza bagels…

  2. bucks defending Robinson’s 3’s really well..he is frustrated…

    SiriusXM’s U2 channel…playing 100 top U2 songs of all time…forgot how many good songs they had…

  3. Man, the Heat have just eaten the Bucks’ soul this series. It’s not even like they’re just kicking their ass, they’re just breaking them every game. It’s kind of hilarious, really.

  4. let’s not go down the “are U2 a dominant superstar”..rabbit hole…..yet…need to go get stats on how many platinum discs they got…

  5. Speaking to reporters ahead of Saturday’s Game 2 against the LA Clippers, Malone answered a different question about the bubble by saying he needed to get something off his chest.

    “First, I’m going to say something that has nothing to do with your question,” he said. “Today is Day 60. All right? The guys that came down here on July 7 — and there weren’t many of us because we were ravaged with COVID — this is the original crew. This is day number 60. The reason why I bring that up is because the players have their families here, which they deserve, which is the right thing to do. The referees are allowed to bring one guest, which is great for the referees. The coaches, the coaches are not allowed to bring anybody.”

    i like michael malone – a lot…when it is time to speak, he does so, really well…

  6. No one on the Bucks is anywhere near as mentally tough as Butler.

    Butler knew that his teams in Minny and Philly were too soft to truly contend. This team is perfect for him.

  7. Jimmy Butler’s FTr in the playoffs is .911, which is the number the Buck should be calling. That has to be a record, right?

  8. Welp. The Heat took 78 shots and 47 of them were threes. I’m no scientist, but it seems like being good at that wins basketball games or something.

  9. Holy shit! I turned it off before the 4th quarter to go live my life instead of watching a meaningless quarter of basketball.

    Giannis to LA? Giannis to GSW?

    let’s not go down the “are U2 a dominant superstar”..rabbit hole…..yet…need to go get stats on how many platinum discs they got…

    so do the Eagles……………………

  10. oh shit, just got home and turned on the game…guess the rockets weren’t too gassed at all…

    weirdly enough – I now find myself rooting for the rockets…who’d thunk that…

  11. Hard to pick two teams that are less root-able. In the end I guess I’m hoping Houston wins. I mean, think of that LA line-up.
    I really dislike Dwight Howard.
    I really dislike Rajon Rondo.
    I REALLY dislike Dwight Howard.
    I’m just tired of LeBron’s excellence.
    Kuzma seems like a jerk.
    Anthony Davis is wonderful, but I am starting to wonder if he’s also a jerk.
    JR Smith gives me PTSD.
    Mercury Morris gives me PTSD.
    Alex Caruso just confuses me.
    JaVale McGee makes me smile but a little sadly, and then he scores and it just annoys me.
    Waiters is still getting a paycheck.
    Green and Caldwell-Pope would be non-entities to me on any other team, but here they’re sort of likable just by comparison.

    Harden is annoying and the whole team is based in Texas, but otherwise i have no real feelings. Against most other teams those two points would make me root against them. Against LA, it’s not enough.

  12. D’Antoni is going to make his firing as awkward as possible, I see.

    This is going to be hilarious — not just with Pringles, but with Morey, who presumably remains on the hot seat with his cheapskate new owner over the China comments. Almost enough reason to keep rooting for the Rockets right there, just to watch the ugliness of them trying to can one or both guys.

  13. Vecenie’s latest mock draft at The Athletic, meanwhile, has us taking Killian Hayes at 8, Elijah Hughes from Syracuse at 27, and Nico Mannion with the Charlotte pick. (Grant Riller goes after all those picks, for those of you on Team Riller.)

  14. I never root for the Lakers.

    But I also never root for Harden.

    Which puts me in a bit of a paradox.

    I will say this: I love outspoken LeBron, and if staying in the bubble gives his voice more power, then that’s reason enough to hope he wins this series. Plus, Clippers v Lakers would be an ironic virtual freeway series, so why not.

    Go Lakers (I guess).

  15. I loved U2 back in the day but if you took every song from War, Unforgettable Fire, Joshua Tree, Rattle and Hum, Achtung Baby, POP and All That you Leave Behind that still wouldn’t be 100 songs and not every song on those albums is good. Top 100 is a place hardly any band could get to.

  16. ‘100 top U2 songs‘ just means a station that plays U2 all day everyday which isn’t a bad thing. But what band has 100 songs that are good?

  17. Has there ever been a better fit in the NBA than Jimmy Butler and the Miami Heat under Riley and Spo? Coaching in NY has heavily contributed to Riley’s evolution as a true mastermind. Or, maybe he always was and adapted to his talent. But, every year after NY, Riley has built the toughest and smartest teams in the league. Man I hate giving them credit..but I’m a basketball fan and we are witnessing pure wizardry out of the Heat. Yes, Toronto exposed Milwaukee last postseason, but I don’t think it takes away from the job Miami is doing so far this postseason. And if Butler wasn’t there as the alpha in that culture- this would definitely not be happening. Begrudgingly, salute to them.

  18. But what band has 100 songs that are good?

    two and a half decades – and, they’re still going strong…pretty much every tune – a showstopper, just like this:
    ‘Cause we all just wanna be big rockstars
    And live in hilltop houses, drivin’ fifteen cars
    The girls come easy and the drugs come cheap
    We’ll all stay skinny ’cause we just won’t eat
    And we’ll hang out in the coolest bars
    In the VIP with the movie stars
    Every good gold digger’s gonna wind up there
    Every Playboy bunny with her bleach blond hair
    And well, hey, hey, I wanna be a rockstar
    Hey, hey, I wanna be a rockstar

    go canada…

  19. well…the actual way sirius xm framed it was “the top 100 desired U2” songs as voted by the fans…I started listening at number 48 and it was all solid…I think they probably threw in compilations, Bono’s solo songs and maybe live versions in order to get 100…

  20. mase:
    ‘100 top U2 songs‘ just means a station that plays U2 all day everyday which isn’t a bad thing. But what band has 100 songs that are good?

    beatles…stones…ac/dc…

  21. Ella Fitzgerald sang on over 200 albums. Johnny Cash and Frank Zappa put out over 100 each. James Brown had 96 entries in the Billboard Top 100.

    Refrain from Boomer commentary. Just sayin’.

  22. Nana Mouskouri from Greece is reckoned to have released 450 Albums. She is fluent and has recorded in multiple languages including Greek, French, English, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese which allowed her to reach audiences all over Europe, N. & S. America and Asia. Influrnced by Jazz vocalists and French chanson and a huge 70s TV star.

  23. I had achtung baby in my car for 15 years. That’s a great album and I loved it even more when I saw the Behind the Music.

  24. spoiler alert…number one song was “Bad”…I love that song…they did it at Live Aid in 1985…sure that is on you tube ….killer version of it…

  25. pepper:
    let’s not go down the “are U2 a dominant superstar”..rabbit hole…..yet…need to go get stats on how many platinum discs they got…

    Platinum discs are like all star appearances

  26. We played a bunch with R Stevie Moore over the years and one of the merch items he sold was a CD-R with 100 albums on it.

    He makes Nana Mouskouri look like a slacker

  27. Getting to see R. Stevie Moore was always a nice bonus to all the NYC Ariel Pink shows I attended over the years. Had no idea how prolific the guy was until I started exploring his catalogue a few years back. He lives(d?) about 20min away from me in Montclair, NJ, seems like a nice dude.

  28. prolific live band…probably not accurate but from set list.com..interesting that BOC is in there..

    The Beach Boys
    6199 setlists

    B.B. King
    5771 setlists

    Ray Charles
    4425 setlists

    Johnny Cash
    4186 setlists

    Blue Öyster Cult
    4019 setlists

    Jerry Lee Lewis
    3934 setlists

    Santana
    3671 setlists

    Elton John
    3624 setlists

    Frank Sinatra
    3623 setlists

    Status Quo
    3553 setlists

  29. Nana Moushouri may be commercially dominant but she’s musically dull.

    Zooropa and Achtung Baby are great albums on their own commercial genres.
    (Eno’s influence is more than positive)
    On the bigger picture U2 are “slightly” overhyped as the next big pop rock thing tho

    Let’s Go Beard!
    Never liked Lebron.
    And AD seems like he’s emotionally sterile. I prefer psychoWestbrook!

  30. Yeah, that’s the charm of Zooropa for me, it has Eno’s fingerprints all over it. He’s my favorite musician of all time, I would probably break down in tears if I ever met him.

    A 100 song Eno playlist would also kick ass

  31. Long time reader, first time poster.

    Being a trumpet player, I’d put Louis Armstrong and Miles 100 best against anyone. Of course, they didn’t compose much but they did transcend multiple eras of jazz.

  32. Looking beyond the boundaries of first world popular music, one could easily find 100 “good” songs by the renowned Zairean band, Franco et L’Orchestre T.P.O.K. Jazz. Arguably the greatest African popular music outfit ever (with Fela’s Africa 70 coming in a close second) Franco’s output was prodigious with nearly 200 LPs and about three times that many singles released over a span of more than three decades.

    One would be hard pressed to find another band that prolific whose quality is also that consistently good. Especially during the band’s golden years from the late 1960s to the early 1980s. In its heyday, the band was a virtual university of Congolese popular music in which every national musician and singer of note cut their teeth before going on to front their own bands, Franco”s guitar playing – at its best – is incandescent and on a par with any of the guitar gods lionized by Western rock music fans. TPOK Jazz was also the headline act of the legendary three-day music festival in 1974 that preceded the Rumble In The Jungle. an event which also featured James Brown, Bill Withers, and BB King.

    It’s hard to go wrong with anything from their golden years. But for my money, the one album that’s head and shoulders above the rest is the two record set, 20ème Anniversaire / 6 Juin 1956 – 6 Juin 1976 Every track on there is a stone cold fucking masterpiece and it’s, without a doubt, one of my five “Desert Island Discs.” Utterly indispensable.

  33. Eno is a Wizard. Love most of his stuff too.
    Although i can’t relate to his extremely acclaimed “music for airports”…Maybe i should listen to it while been on an airport!

    Used to have a TPOK cd from the 80s a few years ago but wasn’t much impressed tbh.
    Not bad but not exactly the stuff i want to collect/listen to

  34. Knew Your Nicks:
    Used to have a TPOK cd from the 80s a few years ago but wasn’t much impressed tbh.
    Not bad but not exactly the stuff i want to collect/listen to

    By the mid-80s, the band had definitely lost a few mph off its fastball. Their sound had become somewhat formulaic, kind of a precursor to the Parisian Soukous sound that exploded in the 90s. I’d encourage you to revisit the band by checking out some of their 70s stuff. I think you’ll find it to be far more inventive, played with top shelf musicianship and stellar arrangements (supposedly, it was pretty interesting lyrically too but, alas, I don’t understand Lingala)

  35. @Cdp
    I’ll give em one more try.

    Fela Kuti and Amanaz are 2 of the African stuff i find enjoyable/good for my taste so far.
    But I’m always open to embrace new stuff worth investigating.

  36. Being a trumpet player, I’d put Louis Armstrong and Miles 100 best against anyone. Of course, they didn’t compose much but they did transcend multiple eras of jazz.

    This is a little different. I could listen to Bill Evans play the same “song” 100 times, but I think the idea is that a post-punk-cum-arena-rock band doesn’t quite have the depth of composition of authentic musical genius like Louis, Miles and the like. Rock bands are most often about cultural moment and emotional broadness; jazz musicians are working with abstraction to a much greater degree.

  37. @KYN

    Being that you’re a big psych fan, I’m not surprised that you like Amanaz. Have you checked out some of the other Zamrock artists heavily influenced by psych such as Rikki Ililonga, and Witch? You may also want to seek out the bands Blo (Nigeria) and some (not all, as they encompass a wide range of styles) Poly-Rythmo (Benin) to hear some other bands that fuse traditional African sounds with psych stylings.

    Yes, I’m a huge fan of African popular music, been collecting it for nearly 40 years, so I could prattle on about this for days. I’ll stop now before I completely drive everyone away and allow the convo to drift back to BubbleBall or whichever no-shoot mediocrity the Knicks should draft with the #8 pick.

  38. @cdp
    Yeah!
    Witch and Ililonga are on my “wanna check list” and i already got Blo. Forgot about them.
    Never heard of PolyRythmo so far. Ill Check em. Thanks!

    On more bball related stuff Giannis should listen to some thrash/death metal and go destroy Heat’s paint!

  39. Any of you jazz trumpet lovers ever hear of Philip Dizack? Worked at my school for a while…apparently quite well known in the scene.

  40. After all the defense of Giannis, I’m pretty pissed he laid that egg yesterday.

    Happens to the best of us, Jowles. And it sounds like Giannis has been playing hurt.

  41. Ethiopian music from the 70’s and 80’s is the shit. There’s a particular style of Ethio jam that I love— lilting 6/8 feel with pentatonic melodies.

    This Mahmoud Ahmed record from ‘86 has that sound, I love this:

    https://youtu.be/1o-kDk-O1H8

  42. I love pretty much every Kinks song. You could do 100 great ones even though most people would only know 20 of them.

  43. ess-dog:
    I love pretty much every Kinks song. You could do 100 great ones even though most people would only know 20 of them.

    probably do a list of the top 100 covers of “you really got me”…

  44. JK47:

    Ethiopian music from the 70’s and 80’s is the shit. There’s a particular style of Ethio jam that I love— lilting 6/8 feel with pentatonic melodies.

    This Mahmoud Ahmed record from ‘86 has that sound, I love this:

    https://youtu.be/1o-kDk-O1H8

    Oh, yes. In a similar vein, I’d also recommend Mulatu Astatke, Hailu Mergia, and the Walias band.

    About 20 years back, there was a great series of CDs released under the title Ethiopiques Worth tracking down if you are not already familiar with it. They’re all uniformly excellent but Volume 4 is a personal favorite. Subtitled “Ethio Jazz” it’s a compilation of some of Astatke’s finest instrumental tracks – over 60 minutes of pentatonic goodness spiced up with the farfisa and fuzz guitar flourishes that would likely appeal to our resident psych buff, Knew Your Nicks.

  45. I had Ethiopiques! Don’t know where it went. Will check out T.P.O.K. Jazz.

    As a kid, for some strange reasons, I was a huge fan of a white South African musician named Johnny Clegg. He basically became obsessed with various styles of Zulu street music and dancing as a kid in Johannesburg. He went on to form a band with a guy named Sipho Mchunu called Juluka which was one of the only integrated outfits that played during Apartheid. Very sadly died of cancer last year. Not going to put it up there with the all time musical greats but I definitely loved it and overall that guy had an amazing life, including outselling Michael Jackson at the height of his fame one night in France.

    Giannis was definitely hurt last night.

    Beatles are overrated.

  46. No way that the Beatles are overrated. There are two eras of Western popular music: before and after Revolver. No album comes close to its influence.

  47. I picked up Mary Halvorson’s Code Girl a couple days ago, pretty interesting. Still digesting it. Her guitar work is incredible.

  48. I’d say Highway 61 was as influential as Revolver if not more so. Like a Rolling Stone is the Ur-Rock (as opposed to Rock and Roll) song.

  49. I’d have to disagree on Revolver, and would say that Rubber Soul was the before/after album. But clearly there’s room for disagreement here.

  50. More so than any of their albums, the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan show was the seismic event that changed everything. Every kid in the world wanted to pick up a guitar and plug it into an amp after that.

  51. Owen:

    As a kid, for some strange reasons, I was a huge fan of a white South African musician named Johnny Clegg. He basically became obsessed with various styles of Zulu street music and dancing as a kid in Johannesburg. He went on to form a band with a guy named Sipho Mchunu called Juluka which was one of the only integrated outfits that played during Apartheid. Very sadly died of cancer last year. Not going to put it up there with the all time musical greatsbut I definitely loved it and overall that guy had an amazing life, including outselling Michael Jackson at the height of his fame one night in France.

    The French artist Renaud dedicated a song to Clegg in 1988, called “Jonathan”. In the original recording, we can hear Patrick Sefolosha (Thabo’s father) singing backing vocals in Zulu. He and Thabo’s mother had moved to Switzerland years before, since their relationship was illegal in South Africa (he’s black; she’s white). According to the Apartheid laws, they could be jailed, and she could be forced to have an abortion, so they fled the country. Hear it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mfXzt7tPBQ.

  52. Owen:

    Beatles are overrated.

    The Beatles are properly rated, actually. Most people say they are the greatest band ever, which they are.

  53. Come on. Popular music is easily divided into two phases. Everything before Autobahn, and everything after.

  54. The Beatles scored a lot of points, but they shot a lot and didn’t contribute many assists, rebounds, or blocks.

  55. Fascinating to see the Nuggets put such a beat down on the Clippers. It was also nice to see the Raptors make their series, well, you know, a series.

  56. nicos:
    I’d say Highway 61 was as influential as Revolver if not more so. Like a Rolling Stone is the Ur-Rock (as opposed to Rock and Roll) song.

    I think I agree with Highway 61. I feel that before pop music was just fun and naive, and then it also could be artsy and relevant. However, I am not sure if I get the chronology and influences right.

  57. Leonam- very cool. What is Trevor Noah’s line about it, “born a crime” I think? His father was also Swiss.

    Listening to people sing in Zulu has just always given me a lot of feels.

    I have never connected with the Beatles. My entire life I have had this “what am I missing here” feeling. Turns out there is a thriving community of people who feel the same way. But they are obviously seminal and not just for Boomers.

    Who is betting against Miami right now?

  58. We’re just arguing Jordan vs. LeBron, Sopranos vs. The Wire, pizza vs. pasta. Clearly Highway 61 obliterated the limits of lyrical content and Revolver the limits of the sonic palette available to artists.

    As long as someone doesn’t step in and say something crazy like “Hotel California is the greatest song ever written,” we’re good.

  59. ***I have never connected with the Beatles. My entire life I have had this “what am I missing here” feeling. Turns out there is a thriving community of people who feel the same way.***

    I thought I was alone on my island.

  60. If Lennon and McCartney were ONLY songwriters and were not also incredible singers and musicians, they would have been hugely significant. But they’re also brilliant, amazing singers and performers. The Lennon/McCartney songbook is probably the most impressive songbook of the 20th century, up there with Cole Porter, Gershwin and whatever other giants you’d care to name.

    The Beatles’ musicianship is also underrated. They played brilliantly together. By the time of the White Album they had become a vicious band, listen to some of the performances on there like “Yer Blues” and “Everybody’s Got Something To Hide Except For Me And My Monkey.” They’re playing their balls off. They had immaculate taste as players and arrangers.

    They were innovators who pushed the envelope of what was possible in a recording studio. They had the luxury of unlimited budgets and studio time and they did not squander it. To this day the techniques used and sounds captured on Beatles records are studied and imitated by engineers and producers.

    They were also incredibly prolific and never rested on their laurels. In a few short years they progressed from “She Loves You” to “Fixing A Hole.” They are most definitely NOT overrated.

  61. My mother was a huge Beatles fan (and Elvis, and Buddy Holly, etc.), so I grew up listening to that in the late 60’s and early 70’s. The Beatles had an amazing arc of “development” in their songs and lyrics. The only real “negative” of sorts for me is that they pretty much stopped playing live in 1966. I get that they wanted to focus on recording and not getting burned out. Their influence on music and culture was, obviously, huge. They transcended being merely a pop or rock band.

    My favorite all-time band is, obviously, The Clash. They had great lyrics from the get-go by my favorite lyricist of all time, Joe Strummer. I can still remember listening to London Calling for the first time and being stunned at what “punk rock” was becoming. And then, the lead track off Sandinista, “The Magnificent Seven,” introduced me to rap/hip hop. They toured exhaustively and were just breaking into the mainstream when they imploded. They probably should’ve taken a page out of the Beatles book and just stopped touring. They did pave the way for bands like U2 (Bono and The Edge have both credited The Clash for the very existence of their band).

    I think The Clash was the greatest rock/pop band of all time. The amount of music and touring they packed into about an 8 year period was staggering. If I broaden the scope to beyond just being a band, The Beatles are pretty amazing, and second to none. So, yeah, semantics, maybe.

  62. I thought I was alone on my island.

    I’ve always found the Beatles nice but boring, not something I’d put on by choice. I always figured it was because time had given them such a central place that they seem like the base or the median or something like that but now I think it just doesn’t have any resonance for me. Like, it’s pretty but it’s not moving. It’s extremely well done but there’s no heart. I feel the same way about Zappa, who is much more in line with the sort of things I find interesting. It’s clever, it’s tremendous musicianship, but nothing about it makes me give a shit.

  63. Who played the guitar solo on the album version of let it be? It might be the most perfectly composed solo ever printed to vinyl. The tone is kinda lennony but the style doesn’t really sound like him or George either. Anybody know?

  64. Grocer: I’ve always found the Beatles nice but boring, not something I’d put on by choice.I always figured it was because time had given them such a central place that they seem like the base or the median or something like that but now I think it just doesn’t have any resonance for me.Like, it’s pretty but it’s not moving.It’s extremely well done but there’s no heart.I feel the same way about Zappa, who is much more in line with the sort of things I find interesting.It’s clever, it’s tremendous musicianship, but nothing about it makes me give a shit.

    I can see that, but I figure some of that from The Beatles is that I was just a kid…I wasn’t old enough during those times, so I can’t connect it to the culture changes of that period. The later Beatles stuff sounds almost too crafted to me. But those vocal harmonies…

    I totally agree about Zappa. He’s one of many artists I respect and admire, but 99% of the time I’d rather crank up “Blitzkrieg Bop,” even as I’ve aged into my 50s.

  65. The Beatles catalog has become so embedded in the soundtrack of everyday life that it’s almost impossible to hear them with fresh ears anymore. At the risk of walking smack dab into “OK, Boomer” territory I can’t imagine how anyone today could experience the sense of revelation and amazement felt by millions everywhere when those songs first came into the world.

    I still recall the day my thirteen year old self came home with a copy of Revolver in hand. just purchased with the hard earned proceeds of my paper route. The most indelible memory of that day is the utter shock I felt after hearing Tomorrow Never Knows for the first time. “What was that?!?” It was weird and even a little bit creepy (it conjured up images of the flying monkeys of Oz in my 13 yo mind) Not only was it unlike anything that I had come to expect from the Beatles, it was unlike anything that I had come to know as music.

    Of course, that song was the seed from which sprouted the sub-genre known as psychedelic rock. Within a few years, other bands would venture even further afield and TNK was soon one of hundreds of songs awash in bizarre, tripped out effects. But none of them – no matter how out there – ever upended my universe in the way TNK did when first I heard it.

    With that said, there were plenty of folks back then who were unmoved by the Beatles music. I even hung out with a few of them. For whatever reason, it just wasn’t their cup of tea. As strat might say, that’s what makes horse racing. Regardless of one’s personal taste, though, the band’s musical and cultural influence is inarguable. Moreover, many of the bands that non-Beatles fans do like and appreciate may never have come into being were it not for the inspiration and the trails blazed by the Fab 4 over 50 years ago. Don’t dig the Beatles music? Cool. But overrated? Nonsense.

  66. I can’t imagine what a pain in the ass it must have been to do huge stadium tours in the mid-60’s when none of the infrastructure for the touring industry existed. They usually toured with a two man crew, Mal Evans and Neil Aspinall. Today they’d tour with 10 semis and have hundreds of crew members.

    They didn’t even have foldback speakers on stage, often referred to as “monitors.” They had their 50 watt Vox Super Beatle amps and that was pretty much it. They often talked about how they couldn’t hear each other and how impossible it was to try to sing complex harmonies like the ones in “Paperback Writer.” There were no stadium-sized PA rigs. Everything must have sounded like complete shit.

  67. @count de pennies…well said…

    @jowles…although I like a wide array of music…growing up in 70 and 80’s…i veered towards metal in my youth and still migrate to that when push comes to shove (angus young is my guy) but whenever I hear hotel california…I still crank it up and will make sure to go up a few extra notches when i drive by your place…not sure what your distaste is for the eagles is but they’re a great fucking band…

  68. Epoch-defining Beatles songs like “I Am the Walrus” have a meme-like quality now, but go ahead and crank that one up on a good system — it slaps so goddamn hard.

    I think saying “I don’t like the Beatles” is like saying “I don’t like pasta.” The range of style is so wide that it’s hard for me to imagine someone being indifferent to the whole thing.

  69. Also, any predictions on today’s Bucks game? Giannis still questionable as far as I can tell. Going to take a big shooting game from his teammates to keep them in it. If they lose, I’m calling this the greatest collapse from a #1 seed in my memory. At least Dallas took ’07 GSW to six games.

  70. Yeah, I would never say the Beatles are over-rated because music is subjective and if people love them that’s the only rating that matters. But for me, I rate them relatively low because I just don’t love their product. And it’s not a generational thing. I grew up in the 80s and 90s, but the only music I listened to during those decades was from the 60s and 70s. I fell in love with Dylan, The Band, and Joni Mitchell, but with the same exposure to the Beatles at that time, there was nothing that I heard from them that I liked enough to want to own.

    Also, this may sound snobby, but I’ll say it anyway: I don’t think I’ve ever met someday who liked Bob Dylan who didn’t have a love of music in general. But I’ve been around a lot of Beatles fans who, literally, ONLY like the Beatles. It’s that difference between pop and art that has always kind of confounded me and possibly turned me off from them, subconsciously, until recently.

  71. Of course the Beatles sound more boring now if you hear them for the first after hearing a lot of other music that came since their time. As said above, lots of artists were influenced by them so now the Beatles music doesn’t sound as remarkable. But it was definitely remarkable at the time it came out.

  72. “Everybody on this planet likes at least one Beatles song even without knowing it.”

    Knew Your Nicks

  73. love it when you all share music stuff…the writing is amazing and always revelating…

    not to single anyone out, because so many of you express yourselves so well – but, whatever you’re doing with the rest of your life count de pennies, you need to slow up on and spend more time writing here :)

  74. What about this kid Abdoulaye N’doye as a 2nd round developmental guard? We may have to buy a pick to get him, but he’s intriguing

  75. I’ve always been a Beach Boys guy over a Beatles guy, because I feel emotionally connected to one and not the other. I appreciate and respect the Beatles a ton and will never complain about having to listen to them. But, as others have said, they’re so ubiquitous that I never felt that their music was “mine.”

  76. Giannis has apparently been playing hurt this whole series, so it is a lot more normal that they lost and it makes a lot more sense why he wasn’t playing more minutes.

  77. Somebody shoot me..
    I am feverishly rooting for Miami to pull this win out right now lol

  78. go bucks…good to see them pull that game out…

    usually when I think of southern california I think of beaches, desert/arid environments and cars…lots and lots of cars…cars everywhere…

    I actually have mountains to the north and west of me…looks real cool when the tops are white…

    driving home from the store last night and saw the top of one of the mountains on fire…looked like some lord of the rings shit…bright red along a good but of crest…

    today the crazy bright sun can’t really break though cuz of all the smoke and ash…outside has an orange tint to it…

    go rockets, I was okay with the lakers in between kobe and lebron…

    the knicks have made me bitter against the continued excellence of certain franchises…

  79. geo…up here in nor cal it is the same…the air quality index is in the red..its 100 degrees…it sucks…I took my son out for some driving lessons and my car overheated and died…had to leave it on the side of the road and take an uber home…at least I made it home in time to watch the 4th qtr and ot…I hope the bucks come back…i wonder why ilyosva gets no run anymore…he got minutes last year…I think he can defend…

  80. ***What a gutty victory by the Bucks. Good for them to not get swept.***

    Would seven-days-ago-Brian ever have expected to have written that post?

  81. Watching the crap ABC pregame, and a surreal commercial popped up. Charles Oakley is Dancing With the Stars.

  82. *Anthony Davis picks the ball up from the ground*

    “You’re the bigger team, you need to take advantage of the ability to get offensive rebounds”

    Which esteemed broadcaster would y’all guess made this comment. I didn’t think I’d be glad to have Thibs, but weighed against the alternatives…

  83. Harden playing the worst kind of Harden-ball, leaving his team’s offense in tatters. I will not root for the Lakers, I will not root for the Lakers…

  84. 2 kinda random thoughts:
    1. It is absolutely sickening to watch a player as good as Westbrook get into the paint AT WILL with no plan whatsoever
    2. Part of me wants to see a Knicks starting 5 of Mitch-Toppin-RJ-Ntilikina-FVV

  85. I do have to admit that I’m starting to appreciate that Caillou has somehow grown up to play on the Lakers.

  86. No idea how reputable this site is, but I’d pay for Randle’s ticket

    @DailyKnicksFS
    Sources tell @KnicksFanTv the Knicks “number one priority” is to move Julius Randle this offseason with one possible trade sending Randle to Utah for Mike Conley and draft considerations

  87. Absolutely. I love Chris Paul, but I’d take a trade for Conley before I take Paul. And if Randle is in the deal- that shit is icing on the cake. I wouldn’t even care how protected the pick from Utah would be. Well..maybe top 15 protected is my limit at best on second thought lol

  88. No chance Utah is using sweetener to dump an expiring Conley. Hell, Randle has more guaranteed money on the books in 2021-2022 than Conley.

  89. I noticed they have the dee-fense chant for the “home” team…is that supposed to help them get some home court advantage?

  90. Lebron still good.

    I am so glad never to have had to root for Russ. God he is a disaster. Great player but just such a disaster.

  91. Would seven-days-ago-Brian ever have expected to have written that post?

    If I knew Giannis was playing hurt, then possibly!

  92. Re: Randle/Conley, Mike Conley is slated to make $35M next year to Randle’s $19. The trade saves Utah $16M and gives them a player who is probably better than anybody they could actually sign in free agency and when last seen outside a Knicks jersey was a young player with a ton of promise. The Jazz could be stealing him from us if he settles in as an inside presence on a team with Mitchell, Ingles, Bogdanovic, and Gobert.

    I see why it would make sense for both teams, but I don’t see Utah actually throwing in a 1RP. That would be nuts if the Knicks did that, and I would officially be optimistic about our future if that happened.

  93. LeBron with that chase down block….just when he looks a lil washed he just decidedes he’ll suck the oxygen out of the Rocket. The pump dunk on Green, alleyoop from the rafters… can’t help but start to root for the guy :((

  94. I see why it would make sense for both teams, but I don’t see Utah actually throwing in a 1RP. That would be nuts if the Knicks did that, and I would officially be optimistic about our future if that happened.

    Yeah, if they could actually get a first rounder for Randle, I mean, holy shit, I’d be fine with taking Andrew fucking Wiggins back if it meant getting rid of Randle and gaining a first rounder in the process!!

  95. Utah is currently picking 23rd overall. Maybe the cost of saving $16M is letting us pick 23rd and they pick 27th? Conley and the 23 for Randle and the 27? I would actually love that trade. An agreement like that lets us add the BSA (best shooter available) at both picks.

    This is probably much ado about nothing considering the source, but I can definitely see a team in Salt Lake City needing to shed salary heading into next season.

  96. I’m totally down for Conley and a swap of the 27 for 23. Gives us a better chance at Jalen Smith. If we come out of the draft with Vassell and Smith, I also would have no problem with keeping DSJ to learn the position under Conley and Thibs. Now, all this might suck for Dot if we plan on bringing Iggy up, but I am totally behind all of this.

  97. I see why it would make sense for both teams, but I don’t see Utah actually throwing in a 1RP. That would be nuts if the Knicks did that, and I would officially be optimistic about our future if that happened.

    Yeah, I was probably more pessimistic than I should’ve been without really looking into the details. I still don’t think it’s happening, but here’s the theory of the case:

    This is the last offseason Utah has to meaningfully add to its core before Mitchell and/or Gobert’s extensions lock them into their current team. Swapping Conley for Randle, waiving their non-guaranteed guys, renouncing all of their free agents, and dumping their pick can open up close to $17M for them. That could be enough for one of Gallo/Harrell/Morris/Harris/Bertans.

    If they think one of those guys + Randle is more valuable than Conley + the 23rd overall pick + their UFAs (the only one that could make them think about this is Clarkson), I suppose I’ve heard crazier ideas.

    I still think they’ll prefer to hope Conley bounces back and what Clarkson did this year is for real, but needless to say if this opportunity does present himself we should be all over it.

  98. Utah is currently picking 23rd overall. Maybe the cost of saving $16M is letting us pick 23rd and they pick 27th? Conley and the 23 for Randle and the 27? I would actually love that trade. An agreement like that lets us add the BSA (best shooter available) at both picks.

    I would still do this because why the hell not, but if they actually want to open up space the favor we’d be doing them is probably worth more than moving from #27 to #23.

  99. I tried using the trade machine to find Randle trades that work, give us something useful and seem fair enough that the other team might consider it. I found two, but neither is great.

    One is trade him to the Suns for Kelly Oubre and Cameron Payne. Payne shots much better than I expected for a low paid back up point guard and he’s not old, so I think he’d be a good acquisition. But I’m not sure how Randle would fit with Ayton, and if they are also worried about this, they won’t do the trade.

    The other is to trade Randle to Brooklyn for Dinwiddie and Thomas. Dinwiddie is good, but not so necessary for Brooklyn now that they have Irving and Randle could be useful to them as a supporting piece. Thomas is there to make the salaries work.

    I’m not sure either trade is better than getting Conley, but the devil is in the details, and trading for Conley may not prove worthwhile.

  100. In a year teams aren’t getting gate revenue, saving $16 million is a big deal

    Conley doesn’t really fit with that team anyways, you’d rather give Mitchell the ball

    Conley is an old PG & old PGs fall off quickly

    Randle is still a young player on a very flexible contract

    Utah really needs a 2nd scorer, as bad as Randle was last year he’d easily be the #2 scorer on the Jazz

    In short, I’d hold out for getting the pick outright

  101. Comparing the two, Dinwiddie and Conley have pretty similar stats, but Dinwiddie is younger and paid less, so I’d rather have Dinwiddie. But it matters what else comes along in the trade. Having compensation for taking in salary is a nice thing to get along with Conley.

  102. Can you imagine the defense if we had a starting 5 of Mitch-Smith-RJ-Vassell-Conley? Sheesh. Not ton of offense, but plenty of spacing with a smart PG. That would definitely push RJ to be what many of us think he can be

  103. Pretty sure he means Jalen Smith

    I’m skeptical of his value, but he’d be fine toward the end of the 1st if Poku is off the board

    If you look at his Freshman stats on BB-Ref they were terrible. If his numbers from his Sophmore year are real, then he could be really undervalued.

  104. ***Can you imagine the defense if we had a starting 5 of Mitch-Smith-RJ-Vassell-Conley?***

    I can’t imagine it, because I’ve never heard of some of these guys, and the only one I’ve ever actually seen play basketball is Conley. So, I’ll just imagine Bill Russell, Kawhi Leonard, Scottie Pippen, Bruce Bowen, and Mike Conley. Am I close?

  105. Now, all this might suck for Dot if we plan on bringing Iggy up

    I think at this point, Dot is what he is: a completely fungible 3-and-D type whose actual D is often more rumor than fact. We shouldn’t necessarily throw him in the trash heap, but I’d much rather see what Iggy can do with whatever wing minutes are available.

  106. The Nets, in a year in which they’ll be looking to contend, are not sending a valuable guard across town for a lumbering big man we’re actively looking to dump. We can put a cork in this one. I have no idea why it was even floated. That’s about as fantastical as it gets.

    I’m skeptical of his value, but he’d be fine toward the end of the 1st if Poku is off the board

    In general, I think there should be some more Poku discussion. It would be an aggressive move with the 8th pick (though if you think he’s the BPA and can’t work out a trade down, you still do it), but if we trade down and/or trade up from #27 he’s pretty intriguing to me.

    Take his stats with a grain of salt–he was playing in what I understand to be a pretty weak league (Greek Heba A2)–but it’s hard not to drool at per-36 averages of 16.7 points, 12.2 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 2.8 blocks, and 2 steals from an 18 year old 7 footer. He shot 78% from the line and 32% from 3, so I think his shot projects reasonably well.

  107. I agree the Nets might prefer Dinwiddie to Randle, especially if they want to have an offense that relies on threes. But describing Randle as “lumbering” is unfair to him. It makes him sound like Kanter. He’s actually quite quick, and he was our leading scorer. His contract is good too. I think he has value for the right team. I’m not sure that team is the Nets, but it is true that the Nets only nominal power forward is Allen but he mostly plays center.

    The reason I posted those trades is that my experience is that once a trade is rumored in the newspapers it usually doesn’t occur. My guess is that article appeared in order to let teams know Randle is available. It doesn’t mean that’s the trade that will occur. if we really want to trade him it’s probably to someone else, but it’s not easy finding that someone else.

    By the way, if we actually got Conley and an extra asset for Randle, it would make last summer’s hiring binge seem a more positive event.

  108. Brian Cronin:
    His contract is so good that the Knicks are desperate to get rid of it.

    This is also unfair. A one year commitment of $18M for a starter who is your number two or three scoring option is a reasonable price for such a player. He doesn’t fit on the Knicks because, like Mitch, he is beat scoring close to the basket and you only only need one guy like that on the team.

  109. Utah really may be the only team where Julius Randle makes any sort of sense. They need another high usage scorer, and Julius Randle in his 17/18-18/19 seasons had this stat line.

    I don’t think you can get that from Clarkson or Conley, and he’s the youngest out of all three players. Randle still isn’t a good shooter, but when you have the option to go Mitchell, O’Neale, Ingles, Bogdanovic, and Randle at points during a game you could be cooking with gas. I think the question for Utah should be “are we comfortable with Randle/free agent or Clarkson/Conley,” and maybe they want to make an aggressive push to offer FVV a four year deal starting at $17M AAV or whatever they can offer him. FVV, Mitchell, Ingles, Bogdanovic, Gobert, Randle, and O’Neale is a very tough top 7 for anybody to deal with in a playoff series.

  110. Utah also has Ed Davis on the books for $5M next year. I think we can relieve them of that in the same deal, which would give them around $20M in cap space. At that point they could be serious players for just about any 2020 free agent.

    This makes some sense for both sides. Looking forward to us not doing it for some asinine reason.

  111. I think if we absorb Mike Conley and Ed Davis into our current cap structure they would have to give us their 1st round pick outright, but does it really make sense for this front office to have 3 1st round picks? The Knicks would have to leverage one of the two picks in the 20s with Atlanta to get ahead of Detroit, and that’s only useful if you really like Killian Hayes and want to make sure Detroit can’t pick him. I’m not sure a 2020 draft pick makes as much sense as a 2021 draft pick, where we can use as many assets as possible to move up and potentially secure a franchise guy in that draft.

    For me, I’d try to turn 8, 23, and 27 into Aaron Nesmith, Tyrell Terry, and Pokusevski. I don’t think the front office values the draft as much as I do, though.
    EDIT: That’s an unrealistic haul for those picks. Maybe something like Poku at 8, Terry at 23, and Elijah Hughes at 27 makes more sense.

  112. If the Knicks somehow end up with 23 & 27, they probably package them to move up to somewhere in the teens. They’re getting close to a point where they just can’t fit any more young guys in their rotation.

    On the flipside, perhaps we just want to move Randle to chase Woods or Bertans (maybe Toppin is available at 8? or Anthony Davis, lol)

    Conley-Bullock-RJ-Bertans/Woods-Mitch is a solid if unspectacular lineup. Hell, we could still bring back Marcus Morris if we wanted to make another stupid playoff run.

  113. Meh, I’d rather just trot Frank out there than bring in the bones of Conley. Frank is a veteran now! Time to get it done, Laddie!

    Frank/Vassell/RJ/Jalen Smith/Mitch is a great vehicle toward a top-5 2021 pick, although I doubt Thibs starts two rooks.

    I really feel like the CP3 deal will happen unfortunately. I’m guessing that their ideal is something like Paul/Frank/RJ/Bertans/Mitch, but who really knows.

  114. 1. Why in the world would Mike Conley want to waste a year of his life in NY at his age? In fact, why would any player with a functioning brain that’s not a rookie, desperate for money, or running out of chances in the NBA want to waste a year in NY?

    2. If you didn’t watch Ed Sullivan live, shut up. You don’t know what you are talking about when it comes to the Beatles .

    3. It’s mind boggling to me that I find myself rooting for Boston or Miami to win it all. Both are long time rivals that I’ve hated, but I could never hate them as much as I hate this LA team and dislike Houston’s small ball nonsense. I guess I could tolerate the Nuggets or Raptors and wouldn’t throw up more than once if the Clippers won because I like Kawhi.

    4. If you are Giannis, you may soon realize it’s going to be tough win a title with this crew if they don’t pull off a miracle in the Miami series. They are more seasoned now, but they had a better team last year. They have a couple of pieces now that are going to start heading in the wrong direction. They may need to make another move.

    5. Rumor has it Frank Ntilikina grew 4 inches since the end of the season. :-)

  115. 1. Why in the world would Mike Conley want to waste a year of his life in NY at his age? In fact, why would any player with a functioning brain that’s not a rookie, desperate for money, or running out of chances in the NBA want to waste a year in NY?

    I don’t think it’s a question of him wanting to. He has a large salary option year that he can choose to opt into. It’s so much money he’d be crazy not to. Once he opts in he’s under contract for a year and can be traded to the Knicks. Then the Knicks get him for a year and get cap space after that. $35M in cap space is nothing to sneeze at for the Knicks.

  116. KnickfaninNJ: I don’t think it’s a question of him wanting to. He has a large salary option year that he can choose to opt into. It’s so much money he’d be crazy not to. Once he opts in he’s under contract for a year and can be traded to the Knicks. Then the Knicks get him for a year and get cap space after that. $35M in cap space is nothing to sneeze at for the Knicks.

    He’s clearly going to opt in, but imo he’ll raise holy hell if they try to send him to NY given he can still help a contender but has very few productive years left. Theoretically, Utah can do whatever they want, but players and agents have a lot of power.

  117. Conley can choose to give up ~15% of his career earnings or play 1 season for the Knicks. I’m guessing he plays for the Knicks.

    Plus the Jazz really don’t care about him. They care about Donovan Mitchell and Rudy Gobert.

  118. If you didn’t watch Ed Sullivan live, shut up.

    Settle down grandpa. The home’s gonna take away your internet privileges again.

  119. ***If you didn’t watch Ed Sullivan live, shut up.***

    That reminds me of the time that my great-grandfather said “Donnie, you didn’t see Babe Ruth play, so fuck off with that Hank Aaron shit.”

  120. Conley can complain about playing with RJ Barrett, Aaron Nesmith, and Mitchell Robinson or he can do what CP3 did and make the best of a bleak looking situation while collecting 3x what he’d get on the open market right now. Who else would want Mike Conley that can give back a player as useful as Julius Randle? I want Julius Randle out of town as fast as anybody, but on a team with Donovan Mitchell taking most of the shots on offense, Rudy Gobert erasing all the mistakes on defense, no real 2nd scoring option and no back up center, there probably isn’t a better situation for Julius Randle in the NBA. We need a stopgap point guard who won’t kill our tank or hinder the development of the young guys, and that’s Mike Conley in a nutshell.

    The truth is no contender needs Mike Conley bad enough to pay him $35M or bad enough to give up a useful enough player for it to make sense for Utah. Oddly enough, I think we are perfect trade partners. The one thing that would piss me off about this potential deal is if we did something dumb like throw Frank Ntilikina in the trade.

  121. Meh, I’d rather just trot Frank out there than bring in the bones of Conley. Frank is a veteran now! Time to get it done, Laddie!

    I can’t tell if it’s my heart or head that wants to go in this direction…

    no doubt, if thibs has a say he’s asking for conley… both long time in the game, I think they would match up real well together…

    if it keeps frank on the bench, oh well, give him some time at the 3…

    I think for our team conley works better than fvv…

    no elf, ship out randle, bring back bullock, keep taj, bring in a backup center who can shoot threes, maybe frank/DSJ/knox/iggy/1st rd pick play well…it becomes conley’s team with a focus on development and defense, and the chase for 38 wins or so…

  122. The day that non-NBA great Mike Conley became the highest paid NBA player in the history of the league was the day that he was destined to become a New York Knick.

  123. I love the idea of a Randle for Conley swap. Especially if we got a second rounder or two out of it, which it seems might be possible.

    I think the worry of a vet like Conley complaining is overblown. That does happen but its not like every NBA player is a diva. He’d be the starting PG. We aren’t THAT bad, guys. And we could possibly trade him or cut him at the deadline where he could go to a playoff team. There are worse things in the world than making 30 million dollars to start for The Knicks.

    And I think Frank as the back up one, like he did last season backing up Elfrid…that is the perfect spot for him. He started to show improvements in that role.

    Conley is past his prime but he’s still a decent starting PG in this league and he’s a good two way player. I think under Thibs he’d do well. Getting rid of Randle is obviously the main move here but I like it. A LOT.

  124. Mmm, I really hope the point would be to rent out cap space for picks and not a burning desire to dump a reasonable contract for an insane one attached to an over-the-hill second tier PG. It’s only one season either way I suppose, but if it’s a pick swap I’d suspect Perry of exacting revenge. I’d want the pick outright (or the player after the pick) plus some thing else, a second or two, or a far future protected first. It’s a huge cap saver for Utah and Conley is likely washed. Plus they aren’t that bright. Guess who thought Mudiay was still useful?

  125. Grocer,

    Gotta disagree with you hard here.

    Conley is “over the hill” but he’s still a decent PG and a MUCH better 3 point shooter than Peyton. You get Conley, you get rid of Peyton.

    Plus Randle has 4 million guaranteed for the season after this one whereas Conley’s contract ends after this season.

    That 4 million may not be much but we will still have 6 million in dead cap space from Noah.

    Plus, Randle might be a decent offensive player but if you want both RJ and Mitch to start, then having Randle AND Peyton in there means zero floor spacing. Getting rid of Randle/Peyton and adding Conley is a nice step in the right direction towards floor spacing.

    Plus, Conley is still a decent defender.

    I would argue Conley, even over the hill, is an upgrade over Peyton.

  126. Upgrade over elf, sure I guess. But it’s one year and buckets of cash. Find me a team that actually wants/can take Conley. And Randle’s a useful player too. The Knicks should be able to get more than a pick swap that moves them up four slots.

  127. This is a rebuilding year anyways where our focus should be on developing the young players.

    So the question for me is does switching out Randle and Peyton for Conley help that?

    I think it does. Randle clogs the paint. He can’t shoot 3’s. Peyton is a decent back up but he also can’t shoot 3’s.

    So moving up some draft spots, getting an upgrade at PG, getting rid of some pain cloggers to make life easier for Mitch and RJ? I think its kind of a win all around for us.

    Now if there is a better Randle trade out there then I’m all for that and just cutting Peyton and picking up, say, DJ Augustin. But I like the idea of a one year rental.

    Plus, that 4 million not being guaranteed for Randle the following season is a nice thing too.

  128. I have no problem with it. Trading Randle to Utah for a first rounder sounds great to me.

    Clippers look like a different team when Paul George and Lou Williams play like their normal selves.

    Zubac didn’t have a great line but he made a real impact.

  129. I’ve never been able to do this on this site without formatting making it all unreadable, but here goes nothing, and nothing is better than trying to get back into the work saddle after the break:

    Stat Elf Conley
    PTZ 10.0 14.4
    TRB 4.7 3.2
    AST 7.2 4.4
    FG% 43.9 40.9
    3P% 20.3 37.5
    FT% 57.0 82.7
    eFG 45.5 49.4
    PER 16.0 14.1
    WS 1.7 2.5
    TS% 470 537
    TOV 16.7 12.8
    OBPM -1.5 0.7
    DBPM 0.3 -0.4
    BPM 0.3 0.3
    Not a lot to get excited about anywhere in there. They kind of both suck, in slightly different ways. As we’ve known Elf is a pretty good rebounder and his assist numbers were decent, but good lord he is terrible trying to put the ball in the hoop. Those 3PT and FT numbers are breathtaking. At least Conley can make 3s and FTs, but apparently those are the only things he can make anymore…

  130. Mike Conley? The Mike Conley who’ll be 33 soon and has played 27,000 minutes? Looks like the PG of the future to me!

  131. I keep seeing Aaron Nesmith’s name come up and I keep feeling obligated to shoot down this bad idea.

    Yes, he shot 50% from 3 in his 115 attempts this year. He also shot .337 as a freshman in 175 attempts that year. He shot .825 from the line in both years. The 3PT% jump screams random variation.

    To be clear I think he projects as a perfectly good shooter. The only problem is…literally everything else. Seriously, he doesn’t project well in any other way. His rebounding was bad for an NCAA forward. He wasn’t any kind of playmaker. He didn’t open any eyes on defense.

    Just as an example, a draft model I happen to like ranks him 34th (off-topic: the model’s creator said Pokuševski would be ranked first if he played enough minutes to qualify–I’m starting to lean towards him at #8, and potentially getting him in a trade down seems like a coup).

    If Nesmith is there at #27 and we want to take a chance on the shooting being truly elite, fine I guess. I would NOT trade up for him though, and at #8, well, at least it’d be keeping with our recently established tradition when it comes to the kinds of players we target with picks in that range.

  132. Jowles, you know damn well Conley wouldn’t be traded to be the PG of the future.

    Conley is a way for us to short term upgrade the PG spot, improve our 3 point shooting, give Thibs a proven vet leader on the floor, and get rid of Randle and his paint clogging ways, plus not be on the hook for 4 million the next year and maybe move up our second round pick or clippers pick.

  133. We will trade for Conley and he will play 5 games and then get injured for the rest of the year.

    Obv he isnt any good but do we have a better deal on the table for Randle? What’s the objection?

  134. Seriously, isn’t this proposed Conley trade exactly what people on this blog clamor for us to do?

    Take on a short term (1 year!) bad contract for draft picks? Either moving one of our picks up or picking up another one?

    With the bonus that we get rid of a guy we don’t want on this team who also has 4 million guaranteed after this season?

    I’m honestly shocked that people on this site aren’t clamoring for this? Is it because you think we can get more for Randle?

  135. I’m honestly shocked that people on this site aren’t clamoring for this? Is it because you think we can get more for Randle?

    Randle isn’t useless but I think we can get more than a minor pick swap for taking on a year of a huge contract attached to a currently extremely meh player. Getting Conley isn’t the point, getting picks for taking on a salary dump is the point.

  136. If the Jazz are truly interested (which I doubt) in moving Conley to the Knicks in a deal for Randle, then I want the pick swap this year AND their #1 next year. Maybe allow them some “epic disaster” protection for the first rounder next year (maybe 1-4).

    And, why not then release Conley and let him pick his own team? Play the kids!

  137. I want the pick swap this year AND their #1 next year.

    Same, but they can’t. I think it’s Memphis that has next year’s? But when it conveys is variable, sometime in the next four years. At best they can give us whichever pick is two years after that one. Plus whatever second rounders they have laying around. Also, in order to get this year’s pick from them they have to make the pick then trade after.

    And, why not then release Conley and let him pick his own team? Play the kids!

    This is a much better idea than “Conley will improve the team.” My worry is the idea in the FO is “Conley will make the team better.”

  138. I read somewhere about trading Randle, Ntilikina, Wellington or Bullock and a 1st rd pick for Westbrook.

    Houston could use Randle i guess.
    PsychoRuss aint bad… yet
    Giving Ntilikina and 1st round pick tho hurt me badly!

  139. i know i have a penchant for the mundane – which many could find extremely annoying…i’m actually one of those people though that like to talk about the weather…

    should be around 95 today, it’s not going to reach 80…air’s not too bad…

    so says big chiefin geo, like i would even notice the difference :)

    part of my job includes the chance to talk to folks from around the world…the weather is one of those things we all experience – although in some instances it’s location specific (which google makes easy) but still, a shared experience…generally it’s a good safe zone of discussion…

    and may i add: bless you jeffrey goldberg…as perfectly exemplified by the kansas city chiefs – sometimes the best defense, is a good offense…and timing, beautiful timing…

  140. If we could avoid giving draft Pick and Ntilikina while getting something reasonable(doesn’t have to be Westbrook) for Randle from Houston it wouldn’t be a bad trade.
    Randle looks like he’ll fit nicely on their smallball if they continue it and not fire MDA and return to normal mode.

  141. Leon if You or your consultants read Knickerblogger which is very possible Do these:

    Trade Randle.
    Keep Ntilikina.
    Keep 1st Round Picks.

  142. His BPM visual looks like a mountain but there’s always a pretty rainbow coming out from somewhere there!

    He’s not the best possible big dog but he can be a nice restart.
    I like his compressed anger/giving1000% each game attitude.
    If Thibs can turn him into DRose 2 I’m in.

  143. D’Antoni isn’t getting nearly enough love for how excellent the defense on this Houston Rockets team is while having either PJ Tucker or Robert Covington as their center and Eric Gordon as their small forward.

  144. @wojespn

    ESPN Sources: Oklahoma City coach Billy Donovan won’t be returning to the Thunder next season. Donovan’s contract expired at season’s end and the sides have decided against pursuing an extension.

    I’m shocked, given how well the team played in what was supposed to be a rebuilding season.

  145. More Woj:

    The reality of Oklahoma City’s eventual transition toward a rebuild made it a challenge for the two sides to find a way to continue forward together, sources said.

    Hmm, almost as if Donovan won too many games, and/or they need an excuse to deal Chris Paul.

    And does Donovan now become the hottest coach on the market? Even if the Rockets don’t keep Pringles?

  146. Who needs Donovan when you have Thibs…

    Not like I really care. Still an Atkinson guy. Bit Budz might be on market too.

  147. Still more Woj:

    With reduced league revenues amid pandemic, there remains uncertainty on how long the Thunder might continue with key veterans in place before changing course on playoff contention. The timetable on so many plans in the NBA remain fuzzy. This was an extremely amicable parting.

  148. fun rockets and lakers game…

    I’m surprised to hear okc is moving on from donovan, it definitely might indicate an end to cp3, gallo and adams on their team…

  149. I need to take a look again at the open coaches spots…it feels like maybe donovan may already have something lined up, maybe the bulls…

  150. oh yeah, big news of the day – I finally got a haircut…last night when I looked in the mirror, I couldn’t stop thinking of the clippers I have under the sink…

    got close to letting the kids have at it…finally was able to go in and get a haircut though, felt fairly safe…shit, ain’t like I’m hanging out in raves (are those still a thing) or some dorm drinking party…

  151. It is funny to see a “star” like Westbrook be targeted so much like this. The Lakers are ultimately saying on each possession, “Please give the ball to Westbrook” and he is fucking it up every time.

  152. he doesn’t really think ahead at times, he just goes at “it” really hard – without really having a plan…which works okay on defense, well with rebounding, but, not always so great at initiating the offense against a good defense…

  153. okay, so if we’re choosing an expensive vet point guard to take on their salary for randle plus a pick: cp3

    if the jazz are the only ones to call with a similiar offer (2022 pick I guess) – I’d take conley…

    i wish I had more faith that next season is frank’s year to take a big step forward…that we don’t need that veteran presence at that particular position because thibs will get either him or DSJ to play at a higher level and control the offense…

  154. thenoblefacehumper: Just as an example, a draft model I happen to like ranks him 34th (off-topic: the model’s creator said Pokuševski would be ranked first if he played enough minutes to qualify–I’m starting to lean towards him at #8, and potentially getting him in a trade down seems like a coup).

    I don’t know much about this model and modeling will always come up with some weird results, but this model thought that Kevin Knox would have a better career than (1) Brandon Clarke and (2) literally anyone. Sorry if I’m a little skeptical of the model. I’m using this as an anecdote, but there’s a few players in there that this board got right and the model got wrong.

    Nesmith has an NCAA career 3p% of .410. His .825 FT% is higher than any NCAA player I’ve seen other than Tyrell Terry. Nesmith took 8.1 3PA/40 over 2 years so his sample is larger than almost anyone else in the draft.

    By comparison, Devin Vassell who is considered a 3&D player (admittedly more emphasis on the D) shot only 72% from the FT line and took only 5.5 3PA/40.

    Tyrell Terry and Nesmith are the best shooters in this draft by a significant margin. I think Terry has other problems.

    Just so happens that shooting is important for the NBA

  155. Also, not convinced the model appropriately corrects for league. Poku played few minutes in a bad league, I’m not sure what that tells us. People keep saying “but Giannis played there!!” Yeah, but if you take anything based only on Giannis that’s going to be a very skewed result. Moreover, Giannis made some enormous strides (pun intended) when he came to the NBA. Giannis is a unicorn and not someone I’d use as a point of comparison.

    I like Poku a lot but I just don’t know how much Greek B tells us about a players talent.

  156. Why are some people STILL trying to “report” that the Knicks are interested in bringing CP3 and Melo to the squad?? If Conley’s a legit possibility, that takes CP3 off the board for us, right? Unless of course OKC offers up a nice draft pick for the money saved. But OKC is not likely to do that. If anything, I’d think they’d be less likely to move their leader after the season they had.

    I think I’d rather pair Conley and Melo if Melo wants to come home and play PF for one season. Not saying I’d aim for that- just that I wouldn’t mind it. Say we end up drafting a Poku or Jalen Smith as our PF of the future, then we’d have one of those guys plus RJ, Knox, and Iggy who could stand to learn from a guy like Melo. So I’d be ok with that..but not CP3 and Melo

  157. Yeah, OKC looks to be retooling. They’ll want a pick for Paul, they def aren’t giving one up. Which doesn’t mean the Knicks won’t go for it of course..

  158. Why are some people STILL trying to “report” that the Knicks are interested in bringing CP3 and Melo to the squad?? If Conley’s a legit possibility, that takes CP3 off the board for us, right?

    Paul is still really good. If Rose plans on (foolishly) competing for the playoffs as soon as possible, then trading for Paul would help that, while trading for Conley really wouldn’t move the needle all that much (hence the Jazz trying to clear his salary from their cap).

  159. Reporting today suggests both Philly and Milwaukee are interested in Paul. That should absolutely take him off the table for us, as the only way he makes sense as a Knicks acquisition is if he’s either bringing an asset with him or, at most, cost neutral. Like, Knox and a second rounder is the most I’d give up for him. And if two contenders are trying to trade for him, OKC won’t just be giving him away.

  160. OKC may want a pick for CP3 but can they get one?

    On the one hand, he is still VERY good and with proper load management, you can probably expect him to play at our near this level for the next 2 seasons.

    But on the other hand, he’s making 40 million a year. Who has that cap space to take him?

    Could the Bucks swing a deal to get him to go all in next season with him and Giannis?

    OKC has a boatload of picks coming to them, so a rebuild can happen while still having CP3 on the team. But they might be thinking about making sure their own pick next year is a lottery pick. So maybe they’re willing to give up a pick to get rid of CP3 in order to make their pick next year a higher pick?

    Although if you get rid of Adams and Gallo, I’m not sure CP3 and Shai by themselves could get them into the playoffs in the West.

  161. Alan:
    Reporting today suggests both Philly and Milwaukee are interested in Paul. That should absolutely take him off the table for us, as the only way he makes sense as a Knicks acquisition is if he’s either bringing an asset with him or, at most, cost neutral. Like, Knox and a second rounder is the most I’d give up for him. And if two contenders are trying to trade for him, OKC won’t just be giving him away.

    Actually, I think that makes us a possible 3rd partner to facilitate a trade. We could possibly absorb some contracts that OKC would definitely not want in exchange for picks or young players.

    It depends a lot on OKC expectations. They already have a boatload of picks from the Paul George and Westbrook trades, and could very well just sit on them while the contracts of their veterans expire. There are three things into consideration:
    – What are the salary cap projections in the following years?
    – Do they want to be players for Antetokounmpo or other FAs in 2021?
    – Their 1st round pick in 2022 is lottery protected and conveys to two 2nd round picks afterwards. Do they want to tank for two years?

    OKC can go for different strategies, from a total rebuild, to some retooling, to trade their assets to contend next year. I am inclined to think they will keep their options open and will not rush a trade. They will let Gallinari go, and they would give CP3 for free if a 3rd team would absorb any contracts coming back. I see no reason for them to give up picks or to take on dead salary, and I think they would wait for the trade deadline before doing any movement if they do not find a trade partner now.

    However, if the salary cap is going to crash… then they might be forced to pay assets to get rid of him, and our expiring contracts will become handy.

  162. Brian Cronin: D’Antoni isn’t getting nearly enough love for how excellent the defense on this Houston Rockets team is while having either PJ Tucker or Robert Covington as their center and Eric Gordon as their small forward.

      

    +1

    That’s because there are people in the media with big mouths and big audiences that don’t know enough about the sport they cover and for some reason have long had a hard-on for D’Antoni, The Suns had Amare as their center and Nash as their PG and their defense wasn’t terrible at their peak. You should practically be eligible for defensive coach of the year for that accomplishment. lmao Granted, I’m sure Morey has done a lot of research on finding players with the strength and length to switch and guard bigger men, but someone still has to coach the strategy.

  163. I’m all for bringing in quality veteran players and halting any full or partial tank/rebuild approach, but I don’t think its such a good idea to bring in banged up 35 year olds to try to get the last puff of the cigarette unless you are getting something good out of it with them.

    Guys in the late 20s and even 30ish that are healthy and that will be productive for the duration of their contracts are fine. The team improvement doesn’t stop because they are older and on the team. You still have young players getting better, future draft picks, the ability to trade them for better options later. When they are done, they simply come off the cap and you find the next piece. I don’t think CP3 accomplishes too much and Melo certainly won’t help.

    The Randle hate is way overboard. Randle is a very good player. He’s just not a very good player as the #1 option on a team without space and no player and ball movement. We give him the ball and tell him to create something out of a mess. He’s not that player. But he can get you 10 boards and close to 20 efficient points per 36 if used properly on the right team.

    If we trade him now, we are clearly selling at the bottom. That doesn’t mean I don’t want to move him. I don’t think he’s such a great fit with Robinson. But we could give Thibs a chance to run the offense, maybe play Randle off the bench, maybe see if Robinson can stretch his game out a little and help, see if we can add a shooter at another position etc.. before dumping him for 50 cents on the dollar.

  164. However, if the salary cap is going to crash… then they might be forced to pay assets to get rid of him, and our expiring contracts will become handy.

    This is not going to happen, at least this year. It’s the players and owners interest for this not to happen, so I expect they will work something out. The players obviously would like a higher cap— then they get bigger contracts. The owners don’t want a crash in the cap that forces them to pay unexpected luxury taxes and messes with their ability to sign players they had planned to keep. Of course the owners will have less revenue and will probably be cutting back because of that but they don’t want a big cap drop to make managing payroll and taxes even more complicated.

    Bear in mind, the cap is separate from actual salaries. The salaries will be adjusted down through the escrow mechanism after actual revenues for the 2020-2021 season are in.

  165. re: OKC – they COULD just keep Paul on the team because their books are relatively clean – especially if they can find a taker for expiring contracts / productive players in Steven Adams and Schroeder. For instance, if I’m Detroit, I might see if I can get Adams on the cheap, grab his Bird rights, then re-sign Christian Wood.

    That said – I cannot imagine how destructive Chris Paul on a tanking team would be. If they trade away Adams, don’t resign Gallo, and their absolute ceiling becomes like 35 wins, I can imagine him creating quite a stink to get out.

    As much fun as it might be to see CP3 in a Knicks uniform throwing lobs to Mitch, it just doesn’t make a ton of sense. We are much keeping our powder dry for one more season, getting a high lottery pick in a great draft, then making our move next offseason with tons of cap space, a surplus of picks, and a bunch of promising young players that are either improving or that can be packaged to get real non-36 year old superstars.

    I would be 100% happy with drafting Vassell at 8, a PG prospect like Malachi Flynn or Cassius Winston, and another shooter like Isiah Joe, Desmond Bane, Robert Woodard, or Killian Tillie with the later picks. Depending on how DSJ and Frank look in the workouts, maybe you sign DJ Augustin to hold the fort for a year. Let Elfrid go. Try to trade Randle but definitely don’t give anything of value up to do so – if not traded then make him the backup 5, let him play 25 minutes/game with 15-20 as the backup center and 5-10 minutes with Mitch. And definitely eject Portis, see if Ellington can bring anything at all in trade. Keep Bullock.

  166. Basically, the rationale for getting CP3 would be to make us more attractive to potential FA -but the presence of CP3’s contract would basically make it harder to attract superstar free agents. And are superstar free agents going to want to play with a guy who is likely to regress/break down in the 1 year they’ll play together?

    Then there’s the thought that he’s a culture-builder, but I imagine we could get 90% of the culture for 70% of the age and 50% of the price if we just signed FVV. I’ve cooled on that also, but I wouldn’t be terribly upset if we got FVV.

  167. Basically, the rationale for getting CP3 would be to make us more attractive to potential FA –

    I’m sorry, but I just don’t see this. Paul has a history of wearing out his welcome on teams because other players end up disliking him. This clearly happened in Houston, and I think it’s part of why he was traded from the Clippers too. It’s likely some players will want to stay away from him and some to want to play with him. I don’t think enough players will want to play with him to make NY more attractive to free agents with him on the team.

  168. Basically, the rationale for getting CP3 would be to make us more attractive to potential FA

    “Does a struggling salesman start turning up on a bicycle? No, he turns up in a newer car — perception, yeah? They got to trust me — I’m taking these guys into battle, yeah? And I’m doing me own stapling.” -David Brent

  169. If Philadelphia trades for Paul, it would, presumably, be for Simmons, no?

    If so, is there a scenario where New York absorbs Simmons and some salary bloat? I have to admit, I haven’t seen a whole lot of Simmons’ games over the years. Can he really be a franchise centerpiece, or is his game too limited? Would we even want him in NY as “the piece”?

  170. I don’t see Philadelphia trading Simmons. It’s more like they would trade Harris, but OKC wouldn’t want that large long term salary commitment. I like the idea of facilitating a trade. Suppose Philly gets Paul, we take Harris, and OKC takes Randle and Portis. The salaries match roughly enough that you could probably add in lesser players to make this work. We are are taking on Harris, so we should get some of OKC’s stash of draft picks as part of the deal.

  171. That Harris contract is SO bad, though, that we would have to get a significant chunk of OKC’s draft pick war chest to take it on.

  172. Alan: That Harris contract is SO bad, though, that we would have to get a significant chunk of OKC’s draft pick war chest to take it on.

    Yes, for sure. But they are getting a good reasonably priced player in Randle, which should be worth more than just getting rid of Paul. We can only hope our management makes a good deal.

  173. Can he really be a franchise centerpiece, or is his game too limited?

    He’d be the best Knicks PG since Clyde and is only 24. Thinking he’ll ever be a high-volume scorer with anything resembling a professional’s jump shot would be a mistake, but he’s one of the league’s best defenders and has an uncommon feel for the game. His coast-to-coast speed is as good as the league’s seen in years. When he goes downhill, no one can stop him.

    VORP has him as a perennial top-20 player. Definitely worth of a max at his age.

  174. Simmons would be yet another non-shooter, though, on a roster full of them. I’d still love watching him get the ball to Mitch and RJ, but the front office would have to do a whole lot of work at filling the rest of the rotation with shooters.

  175. ***I don’t see Philadelphia trading Simmons. It’s more like they would trade Harris, but OKC wouldn’t want that large long term salary commitment***

    Can Philadelphia play both Paul and Simmons? Doesn’t that diminish pretty much everything Simmons brings?

    Paul and Embiid is the perfect “win-now” pairing. That leaves Simmons as the third wheel. Seeing as he is young and good, he could presumably fetch Paul + assets from OKC, or whomever is going to facilitate if, for whatever reason, OKC wants full relief and not Simmons.

  176. Brian Cronin: Paul is still really good. If Rose plans on (foolishly) competing for the playoffs as soon as possible, then trading for Paul would help that, while trading for Conley really wouldn’t move the needle all that much (hence the Jazz trying to clear his salary from their cap).

    Add to that CP3 is more of a proven winner that logic says they should keep unless it’s a win-win deal. If we take CP3 off of their hands we absolutely have to ask for a good pick. Whereas in Conley’s case, he’s a highly paid, really good PG who didn’t mesh well with that particular squad because Mitchell needed the ball as much as he did. RJ needs the ball too, but not yet to the extent Conley needs it, so I think *hope* it works better for him as a Knick. And I believe Utah would have no problem attaching a pick to that trade more because it didn’t work AND it saves them money. OKC doesn’t really have that incentive. So, Rose has to ok that trade to Utah if it really is available, right? Or does everyone think Conley’s washed?

  177. I like the idea of getting Conley more than the idea of getting Paul. With both of them we are presumably taking on salary in return for getting picks. Paul is coming off an excellent year and probably has significant downside risk, but that excellent year will raise the price of trading for him. Conley is not coming off a great year and was probably a bad fit in Utah, so he has some upside. He’s 32 instead of 35. His salary, although too high, is more affordable than Paul’s. If we trade for him I expect we release Payton, so we have a $26m salary instead of an $8m salary. If we get a reasonable draft pick for taking on the extra $16m salary, that’s probably a fair deal and we will be paying $12m less than Paul’s salary.

  178. If I was OKC, I would do a trade with Philly for Simmons.

    They have to realize they are not a huge free agent attraction. They all ready have a boatload of picks from the PG and Russ trades. Simmons is 24 years old and a legit really good player (even if he’s not a great shooter).

    Him and Shai plus a boatload of picks is a great start to a rebuild. They probably aren’t attracting a player as good as Simmons in free agency even if they have cap space. But Simmons plus Shai and they hit on a few of their many picks in the next few years? Now you’ve got a really good young core.

  179. Agree – CP3 + 2-3 of their better firsts for Simmons plus salary filler might get it done. Simmons might be the best asset they could possibly get.

  180. This is super interesting:

    Tim MacMahon
    @espn_macmahon
    Jazz VP Dennis Lindsey mentioned that lack of travel has led to an improved product in bubble. He suggests the league tries to reduce travel — baseball-style series? — once things go back to normal. “The players feel better, and frankly, we need to listen to the players.”

    I think that might be a little bit of a reach though.
    I could easily imagine the product has been better because there are far fewer distractions in the bubble. I don’t doubt there is some sort of hooker service built into the bubble, but even that is a far cry from the distractions in even mid-sized NBA cities.

  181. I could easily imagine the product has been better because there are far fewer distractions in the bubble.

    I was marveling at the defensive intensity from people like Kuzma, wondering if it was because there was no nightlife to keep him exhausted the next day. But also it might be the fear of LeGod if he plays matador D in the Conference Semis.

  182. I like the idea of getting Conley more than the idea of getting Paul. With both of them we are presumably taking on salary in return for getting picks. Paul is coming off an excellent year and probably has significant downside risk, but that excellent year will raise the price of trading for him. Conley is not coming off a great year and was probably a bad fit in Utah, so he has some upside. He’s 32 instead of 35. His salary, although too high, is more affordable than Paul’s. If we trade for him I expect we release Payton, so we have a $26m salary instead of an $8m salary. If we get a reasonable draft pick for taking on the extra $16m salary, that’s probably a fair deal and we will be paying $12m less than Paul’s salary.

    you changed my mind knick fan in NJ…i do think thibs and conley would work well together and we would be a lot more organized on the floor, offensively and defensively, than without bringing in a vet point guard…

  183. There is no world where Philadelphia trades Ben Simmons in the division, and especially not to the Knicks in some salary dump.

    I also don’t see a situation where the Bucks can put together enough contracts for Chris Paul’s $41M. Brook Lopez and Eric Bledsoe together only get you to $29M, and both of those guys were All-NBA 2nd team defense. You could offer Bledsoe, DiVincenzo, Ilyasova, and Brook Lopez, but is that worth it for a rebuilding Thunder team?

  184. RJ needs the ball too, but not yet to the extent Conley needs it, so I think *hope* it works better for him as a Knick.

    RJ Barrett doesn’t need the ball as much as he needs to not be frozen out of the damn offense by low IQ playmakers in Elfrid Payton and Julius Randle. Mike Conley for Julius Randle means you release Elfrid Payton and just like that you replace two of the biggest detriments to RJ Barrett’s development with a 12 year veteran point guard who can shoot 3s and find Mitchell Robinson in the pick and roll. It’s an idea I warm up to more and more every day, especially if we can steal Tyrell Terry at 23 and develop him behind Conley for a year.

  185. The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    Also, any predictions on today’s Bucks game? Giannis still questionable as far as I can tell. Going to take a big shooting game from his teammates to keep them in it. If they lose, I’m calling this the greatest collapse from a #1 seed in my memory. At least Dallas took ’07 GSW to six games.

    For my money, I still say Seattle’s collapse against Denver was the greatest 1 seed collapse of all time. That or the Spurs getting wiped by the Grizzlies. Those two were way more stunning to me than any other 1 seed dispatch.

    Milwaukee lost in the second round, Miami lost in a lockout shortened season, Dallas felt susceptible to dominant guard play, I might be missing a couple but they must not have been memorable.

  186. Sixers are quite stupid but i don’t think they’re stupid enough to trade Simmons or Embiid unless any of these two requests a trade.
    They need to move out Harris and Horford horrible contracts. Not trade their big dogs.

  187. The Knicks after many years seem to have the luxury to do almost whatever they want.
    Let’s hope that Leon will be patient and will choose the best moves possible and not fuck things up.
    There seem to be many options ahead.
    Let’s Not Fuck it Up like last off-season’s 1st day of PFs.

  188. RJ Barrett doesn’t need the ball as much as he needs to not be frozen out of the damn offense by low IQ playmakers in Elfrid Payton and Julius Randle. Mike Conley for Julius Randle means you release Elfrid Payton and just like that you replace two of the biggest detriments to RJ Barrett’s development with a 12 year veteran point guard who can shoot 3s and find Mitchell Robinson in the pick and roll. It’s an idea I warm up to more and more every day, especially if we can steal Tyrell Terry at 23 and develop him behind Conley for a year.

    EXACTLY THIS. This is why the Conley trade is ideal. He could actually be better here than he was in Utah. Its one year. He’s a proven vet but he’s not quite good enough now to accidently get us into the playoffs like CP3 would. He helps spread the floor. You don’t have Randle’s 4 million guaranteed next year. You could throw big one year money at Gallo or sign Christian Wood and now you have a modern NBA starting 5 assuming you draft say Vassell at 8 and start him or Bullock (Conley, Vassell/Bullock/Halliburton, RJ, Gallo/Woods, Mitch)

  189. The college basketball season usually starts early in November. That could create complications for some of the players.

  190. I actually like Conley because he’s significantly worse than CP3 and thus won’t hurt the tank as much

    He’s also not as unplayably bad as DSJr who hurt the rest of the team

    Still think Randle is worth more than that. A team worried financially could look to take on Randle for a bad contract in exchange for a better pick

  191. The college basketball season usually starts early in November. That could create complications for some of the players.

    I would imagine that the college basketball season won’t be starting on time this year, either.

  192. I’m going to be really let down if we don’t end up with Mike Conley. You put a real point guard with a year two RJ Barrett, a year three Mitchell Robinson, and some other guys who can shoot and/or play defense and we may have a watchable product. I’d love to tank our way into a top 3 pick next year, but I just get the feeling that at some point you have to actively commit to the development of your younger players and you can’t do that by building rosters with no cohesion or synergy. Mike Conley won’t make us a 41 win team by himself, but at least he’ll hit guys when they’re open, find Mitchell Robinson around the basket, and be a threat to punish defenses for leaving him open. Like would anybody be upset if our starting five next season was Mike Conley, Aaron Nesmith, RJ Barrett, Jeremy Evans, and Mitchell Robinson with guys like Taj Gibson, Reggie Bullock, and Frank Ntilikina on the bench? There’s little to no chance we make the playoffs with all of Miami, Brooklyn, Boston, Toronto, Indiana, Philadelphia, and Milwaukee being locks and we’re the worst team in basketball’s toughest division, but I just cannot watch DJ Augustin, Elfrid Payton, or some other scrub run a team anymore. Go get Mike Conley, draft the BSA at 8 and 23/27, and let’s start to look competitive out there.

  193. When 29 year old Mike Conley became the highest paid NBA player ever, he was, what, like the 10th best point guard in the league? Then he actually followed up the next year with his best season, making the contract not seem so bad. But now he’s in his mid-thirties and being paid like he’s LeBron James, even though he’s officially below average by every metric. and yet Knick fans are “going to be really let down if we don’t end up with Mike Conley” (GlassHalfRebuilt, 2020).

    When you’re 20,000 leagues below the surface, the way you drown doesn’t really matter I guess…

  194. I don’t understand the people complaining about potential Conley trades. Every theoretical trade has draft considerations attached. Are people here actually complaining that we might trade for an expiring contract and get a draft pick in return?

  195. It’s

    Donnie Walsh:
    When you’re 20,000 leagues below the surface, the way you drown doesn’t really matter I guess…

    It’s not as much about Mike Conley as it is about what acquiring him would represent for the Knicks. It means we don’t have to pigeon hole ourselves into think we need to reach on a point guard and we can instead take the best player available. It means we get a useful player on an expiring contract in place of two guys who actively made the Knicks worse last year by being poor shooters and poor decision makers. It would mean the Knicks understand that you don’t just have to throw your money at FAs but you can punt some of your cap space in exchange for draft picks (or a pick swap as I’m suggesting).

    Even though I think having him instead of anybody else available not named CP3 or FVV gives us the best chance to win, it’s not so much about Mike Conley the player. It’s about making a move that would signal that we finally have a front office that knows a thing or two about building a basketball team. We obviously shouldn’t be falling over ourselves and offering real assets for Mike Conley. But to get rid of Julius Randle and Elfrid Payton while adding a guy who shot 37.5% from 3 on 5.4 attempts a night who can still run an offense and not embarrass you? Yeah, I’d be disappointed because that means more Julius Randle, maybe more Elfrid Payton, and a worse first round draft pick.

  196. While I think Kemba overall makes this team run better… they could really use a Kyrie right now.

  197. The Raptors could use Kawhi even more

    Theis proving once again that teams only go as far as their biggest man can take them :-)

  198. I’d love to see Kawhi ending his career as the GOAT.
    He’s not only an incredible player but also one of the most likeable ones.

  199. Knew Your Nicks:
    I’d love to see Kawhi ending his career as the GOAT.
    He’s not only an incredible player but also one of the most likeable ones.

    I think Spurs fans might disagree with that.

  200. I just would have thought the ball would be in lowrey or fvv hands to either shoot or create…

    I just want them to beat those damn celtics really bad…

  201. How many years until the Knicks are involved in a game half this good or meaningful?

    I’ll set the over under at 7 years.

  202. So Kyle Lowry (6′ 0″) gets 8 rebounds and FVV (6’1″) gets 9.
    Then you look at the Celtics, and Jaylen Brown (6’6″) gets 15 rebounds and Marcus Smart (6’3″) gets 11.
    How tall is Frank again?

  203. If Kyle Lowry had somehow played his career with the Sixers they’d already have a statue of him up in Philadelphia

  204. Conley isn’t an asset to me, he’s whatever and not (too) actively harmful

    But trading Randle for the #23 pick isn’t that inspiring

    Clearing $4 million off our cap for next year doesn’t exactly move the needle either

    It’s fine if we sign Bertans/Woods but Randle is worth more

  205. so much of the world I have zero clue about – what the heck is a black opal gonna do…

    is that your avatar – a black opal…is that like one of them power ranger special crystal kind of things..

  206. Black Opal played a prominent role in Uncut Gems. I believe it’s still on Netflix.

    My Avatar is from the movie Under the Silver Lake. I think it’s on Amazon Prime. I tried to leave crypt clues awhile ago to tip you off.

  207. I tried to leave crypt clues awhile ago to tip you off.

    i’m not that smart, i’m mostly just weird…i am gonna dig in to Under the Silver Lake to understand you a little better :)

  208. Man it is a hell of a movie. UTSL is a neo noir cryptic thriller. Please watch it stoned.

  209. yeah well, seeing how i’m working off of about 4 decades of solid sobriety intolerance – that shouldn’t be too hard :)

  210. Kawhi has zero shot at being the GOAT. He’s 28 with knee issues and he’s never been as good as peak LBJ. LBJ led the league in WS, BPM and VORP (VORP 8 years in a row) five years in a row- Kawhi’s never led the league in any of the catagories. I know I’m in the minority but I kinda hope LBJ wins a couple more rings and displaces Jordan. LeBron can be insufferable but can you name another athlete who’s leveraged his position to try to effect real change as much as he has? Jordan was and remains an asshole.

  211. well, there’s no getting out now, so I may as well make the best of it

    I enjoyed it a lot knicker blogger power rankings…it stayed interesting, it was cynical and weird, and also cool…the coolness of it made me feel a little old though…

  212. oh shit, I must have missed it, didn’t notice the avatar in the movie…

    thought it may have been in the comic or cereal box, but no…

    wait, is that the owl’s kiss?

  213. ***If Kyle Lowry had somehow played his career with the Sixers they’d already have a statue of him up in Philadelphia***

    Sliding doors moment:

    IF the Knicks hadn’t traded for Bargnani…

    THEN the Knicks probably would have traded Shumpert + 2018 pick for Lowry

    ( https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/raptors/2016/02/13/raptors-kyle-lowry-2013-trade-knicks-deal-done/80339726/ )

    How different would the past 6 years have been? (Couldn’t have been worse. Could have been A LOT better)

  214. Most people who have achieved true greatness are at peace with themselves and find a kind of wisdom. Not Michael Jordan. That guy is a small human being. Great player, below average person.

  215. nicos:
    Kawhi has zero shot at being the GOAT. He’s 28 with knee issues and he’s never been as good as peak LBJ. LBJ led the league in WS, BPM and VORP (VORP 8 years in a row) five years in a row- Kawhi’s never led the league in any of the catagories. I know I’m in the minority but I kinda hope LBJ wins a couple more rings and displaces Jordan. LeBron can be insufferable but can you name another athlete who’s leveraged his position to try to effect real change as much as he has? Jordan was and remains an asshole.

    I don’t know about zero. Maybe 3%? LOL. His legs probably limit his case, but if he takes the Clips to the finals and wins this year- he has to be in the conversation. That’s 3 different teams, and on 2 of them- he’s the unquestioned leader. He plays well during the season and then ramps it up to another level during the playoffs while upping his efficiency. He’s one of the few max players worth the max. As much credit as guys like him, LeBron, and Harden get- I’m not sure they get quite enough credit. Those guys are incredible.

  216. You don’t have to choose between LeBron and Jordan for GOAT. You can pick Kareem. And he deserves it. He’s socially active too.

  217. Was talking with one of the beat writers, who thinks that the Knicks love Vassell and will take him at 8 if he’s there (and if they stay at 8), but also that they like Killian Hayes but don’t expect him to be there. If both happen to fall to 8, anyone have a preference?

  218. Alan:
    Was talking with one of the beat writers, who thinks that the Knicks love Vassell and will take him at 8 if he’s there (and if they stay at 8), but also that they like Killian Hayes but don’t expect him to be there. If both happen to fall to 8, anyone have a preference?

    I like Hayes. I do. But I’d still take Vassell and go all in on this alleged Randle for Conley deal and give Thibs and Conley 1 season to see how they can bring DSJ along. If DSJ is STILL stalled, we can still draft a PG next draft. And honestly, it feels like we would regret not drafting Hayes. But, if there is ever a draft to not swing for the fences and draft someone more ready to contribute this season- it’s this one. Besides, if we don’t have a great offense- I feel much better if we can put a tough defense on the floor until the other side develops.

  219. I like both Hayes and Vassell, but I’d take Hayes because of his ball skills and how much he progressed over the past year. Plus, you can probably find a shooting wing at 27 or later (Bane, Joe).
    Also, if I’m the Knicks, I don’t take back a bad contract without a first rounder, even if the player is semi useful. They really need to load up on picks to truly rebuild and only give up cap space when absolutely necessary, especially now that we have real scouts.

  220. You don’t have to choose between LeBron and Jordan for GOAT. You can pick Kareem. And he deserves it. He’s socially active too.

    The only one of the three to write a comic book, too, so that gives him a big leg up.

  221. And to write for Veronica Mars! (Even if it was the Hulu season.)

    Perhaps the tougher question is who has the most impressive bit of self parody: Kareem in Airplane!, MJ in the Stuart Smalley sketch, or LeBron in Trainwreck? Blasphemous as it may sound, I think it may be LeBron, since the other two depend more on Kareem and MJ simply being Kareem and MJ in those moments, where LeBron is genuinely funny in Trainwreck.

    Kareem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2A194yTWoQ

    MJ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNx_gU57gQ4&ab_channel=SaturdayNightLive

    LeBron: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zie94YV7W4Y&ab_channel=Movieclips

  222. Owen:
    Winning titles with three different teams would be good for Lebron’s case

    Khawi has a chance to do the same thing. If he does, he will also probably be the MVP in all 3 series. There’s a chance the Lakers win the title but Anthony Davis is the MVP against the East depending on the opponent.

  223. No way Kawhi can be in the greatest of all-time category.

    I mean, I guess if The Clips win back to back then MAYBE we can start that convo. But while titles are important, they are not the only factor in determining the GOT and Kawhi is lacking in regular season production. Jordan was literally the scoring leader for pretty much his entire career in the 80s and 90s and also has 6 titles and Lebron is now going on what, 17 seasons in the NBA?

  224. Perhaps the tougher question is who has the most impressive bit of self parody: Kareem in Airplane!, MJ in the Stuart Smalley sketch, or LeBron in Trainwreck?

    Lebron did a legitimately good acting job in that movie, so yeah, gotta be Lebron.

  225. Personally, I think Jordan was better than James (Kareem too).

    IMO Jordan was consistently the mentally tougher player under extreme pressure.

    Jordan did less “in the boxscore” because he shared play making duties with Pippen and the other guards on the Bulls. Their play making was a more team oriented process. His job was to “score” and just make plays and rebound in the flow of the “team” game. The same was true of Kobe in the triangle for LA, We saw that when D’Antoni briefly used Kobe at PG. It was obvious he could get 10 assists anytime he wanted. So could Jordan.

    James is a scoring forward that typically dominates the ball and plays pseudo PG . His teams are generally built to maximize HIM, his skills, and his stats in every way.

    The same is true of Doncic. The Mavs are built to maximize HIM.

    IMO, teams are generally better off if they are less dependent on one player like that. A broader more diverse approach seems to win more, especially if that guy has a bad night, is a little hurt, or the other team has a defensive player or strategy that can slow him down a little.

    I’m hoping Doncic eventually figures out that doing less is sometimes more. I think that will come in time with maturity and 1-2 more quality players on his team. Then he’ll contend for titles. Right now, they have no shot with him playing the way he does. No one can carry a team like that.

  226. Jordan was literally the scoring leader for pretty much his entire career in the 80s and 90s and also has 6 titles and Lebron is now going on what, 17 seasons in the NBA?

    Kareem also has six NBA titles and was NBA all defense 11 times. He played 20 years and was the NBA scoring leader twice. As I’m sure you know, he is the NBA’s all time scoring leader. He was league MVP six times. On a non basketball note he received a Presidential medal of Freedom.

  227. swiftandabundant:
    Noway Kawhi can be in the greatest of all-time category.

    I mean, I guess if The Clips win back to back then MAYBE we can start that convo. But while titles are important, they are not the only factor in determining the GOT and Kawhi is lacking in regular season production. Jordan was literally the scoring leader for pretty much his entire career in the 80s and 90s and also has 6 titles and Lebron is now going on what, 17 seasons in the NBA?

    I wasn’t arguing that Kawhi is in the conversation for GOAT (at least yet). I was just pointing out it may not be a unique accomplishment to win titles or even be finals MVP for 3 teams if James does it because Kawhi can do it this year or in the future also.

    However, I will argue that Kawhi is the best “big game” player I have seen since the Jordan, Bird, Magic, Kareem era. To me, that’s what counts. I don’t care much about what you can do in nonsense games. Russell’s Celtics often didn’t even have the best regular season record. He and the Celtics just kicked your ass when it mattered in a tough series and in the finals .

  228. @Geo, yeah it’s the owls kiss. BTW how great was the scene with the musician?

    If you dig deeper you can actually find the movie wasn’t about what happened in the movie, but about the clues that point to something deeper and more sinister that exists in real life…..

  229. Yeah, Lebron was surprisingly great in Trainwreck.

    Kawhi should be up there but won’t. His greatest skill is defense. And I think his first two titles will have asterisks attached because of Duncan, Manu, Tony and Pop and because half of the Warriors team was missing for the final. He also won’t have the counting stats.

    He is really so good though.

  230. thanks KBPR, I appreciate you sharing…I will dig a little deeper…

    there were a bunch of interesting and well constructed scenes, the musician was definitely one of them, it felt a little heavy handed with the message, but honest all the same…

    I’ve been out here for decades, but to be honest, don’t really know all that much about LA…I liked the movie for making me feel a little closer to the area…

  231. Jordan did less “in the boxscore” because he shared play making duties with Pippen and the other guards on the Bulls. Their play making was a more team oriented process. His job was to “score” and just make plays and rebound in the flow of the “team” game. The same was true of Kobe in the triangle for LA, We saw that when D’Antoni briefly used Kobe at PG. It was obvious he could get 10 assists anytime he wanted. So could Jordan.

    James is a scoring forward that typically dominates the ball and plays pseudo PG . His teams are generally built to maximize HIM, his skills, and his stats in every way.

    Jordan’s career average FGA/100 possessions, playoffs: 32.5

    LeBron’s: 26.8

    LeBron had a FGA/poss. above 30.0 just once, in 2014-15 at 34.1. Excluding Jordan’s three first-round exits, Jordan did it 8 times.

    LeBron’s AST/poss: 9.2. Jordan: 7.4.

    So yeah, LeBron really dominates the ball compared to “team-first” Jordan.

    IMO, teams are generally better off if they are less dependent on one player like that. A broader more diverse approach seems to win more, especially if that guy has a bad night, is a little hurt, or the other team has a defensive player or strategy that can slow him down a little.

    So the Bulls were worse off?

    Just for fun, here’s James Harden’s career playoff highs per 100 possessions:

    FGA 31.1
    FTA 14.1

    Here’s Jordan’s AVERAGE playoff numbers:

    FGA 32.5
    FTA 12.8

    So the Bulls were essentially playing the Harden Rockets offense, in terms of ball sharing, but, for like, 13 seasons.

  232. Apparently, Danuel House might be suspended for fucking one of the women who tests the players for COVID? Unless she was, like, helping him lie on the test, I have no idea how you suspend a dude for hooking up with a lady who already had access to the bubble. It’s not like she was some groupie he brought in out of nowhere.

  233. Owen:
    Love this Hollinger burn of MPjr

    https://twitter.com/johnhollinger/status/1304062768740524032

    Funny, the other day I was thinking about how rare it is, IMO, to see a player really throw teammates under the bus anymore, as opposed to the late-90s, early-aughts “me first” approach that led to so much shitty ISO play around the league (and “superstars” like Jerry Stackhouse getting truckloads of cash to shoot their teams out of games). And now here we have a rookie in 2020 all but saying, “Yeah that Jokic guy is a great player, but, um, hi? The superstar is me.”

    Apparently, Danuel House might be suspended for fucking one of the women who tests the players for COVID?

    [scribbles down idea for porn movie script]

  234. Brian Cronin:
    Apparently, Danuel House might be suspended for fucking one of the women who tests the players for COVID? Unless she was, like, helping him lie on the test, I have no idea how you suspend a dude for hooking up with a lady who already had access to the bubble. It’s not like she was some groupie he brought in out of nowhere.

    And that to me is HEE-LARIOUS! Punishing him for that is quite haterrific lmao

  235. Kawhi-like Steph Curry- will never have the minutes to be the GOAT, but he (in my mind at least) has put himself in the peak GOAT conversation

  236. When I first read about Housse the report was so vague I thought he must have brought a woman into the bubble, maybe even a sex worker.

    But if its just some woman who is all ready in the bubble…if its consensual…what is the problem exactly?

    This isn’t IT FOLLOWS. Covid doesn’t spread between two people who don’t have Covid just because they had sex.

  237. Jowles, I would be interested in seeing Jordan’s playoff numbers in the 80’s vs. in the 90’s when they started winning titles. He had a lot of seasons there in the 80’s when they didn’t win it all where he was doing a lot more than in the 90’s when he had the more balanced team behind him.

  238. DRed:

    Kawhi-like Steph Curry- will never have the minutes to be the GOAT, but he (in my mind at least) has put himself in the peak GOAT conversation

    Yep. Kawhi is tremendous, but he has no business in the GOAT conversation yet, and I highly doubt he will ever have the stats to enter the debate with Jordan and LeBron. His playoff peak has been masterful, but peaks go so far in the GOAT conversation.

    Basketball Reference has that “Similarity Scores” box about players with similar career arcs, in terms of Win Shares. The number of seasons played is a factor. So here are the five most similar players to those mentioned here:

    Jordan: Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson, Chris Paul, Jerry West, Jonh Stockton.
    LeBron: Karl Malone, Dirk Nowitzki, Dr. J, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett.
    Kareem: Wilt Chamberlain, David Robinson, Artis Gilmore, Shaquille O’Neal, Bill Russell.
    Kobe Bryant: Stockton, Reggie Miller, CP3, West, Gary Payton.
    Kevin Durant: Garnett, Charles Barkley, Dr. J, Nowitzki, Larry Bird.
    Stephen Curry: Dwyane Wade, Kobe Bryant, Walt Frazier, Chauncey Billups, Payton.
    Kawhi: Jimmy Butler, Kevin Love, George McGinnis, Elgin Baylor, Elton Brand.

    Take a look. Kawhi is only 28 and hopefully still have many prime years ahead, but right now he’s FAR from being mentioned as the GOAT, he’s still on a completely different tier. Is he the best 2-way player since Jordan? Possibly, but even on the defensive side stats like DBPM (and OBPM, and BPM) seem to like LeBron equally, if not better.

  239. (Not saying anyone here thinks Kawhi is or will be the GOAT, just pointing that he’s still has a long road to walk in order to get there).

  240. And to write for Veronica Mars! (Even if it was the Hulu season.)

    you’re just so hoity toity when it comes to tv…i love it…

    kind of like how folks sniff and sip on their wine and give you a molecular breakdown of grapes…yeah, it’s just grapes…ewww, that buzz feels good…

    i got a buddy that does that with beer, he’ll give me ingredients, temperatures, measurements, timing – the whole thing…i enjoy his company and listening to him speak, so it’s cool…it is sort of interesting in a i have zero chance or remembering what you’ve just said – five minutes from now, sort of way…

    i can guess tv van be more than just tv – not sure it has the same impact it once did…platforms like youtube, twitch, whatever else is out there that providers user produced content – yeah, that “trend” ain’t going away anytime soon…

    yeah, sure the boobtube can provide a bit more than mindless distraction, it can be true art – like spartacus: blood and sand

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