2020-21 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Jazz

Kind of hard to care about this game with what is going on right now (and I wouldn’t be stunned if the NBA delays some of these games), but well, here’s a thread!

Bullock is out tonight, as the Knicks keep dropping like flies as they continue to win. I guess Rivers probably starts?

The Knicks can move TWO games over .500 for the first time in a long time!

Let’s go, winning record Knicks!

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432 thoughts to “2020-21 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Jazz”

  1. Hard to concentrate on the Knicks on this bittersweetly historic day…long live the last, best hope on Earth.

  2. I declare this a basketball only thread! No politics. Shove them into the last thread if you must vent.

    Does anyone know the status of Spellman and Obi?
    Does Iggy get some time with Bullock and Burks out?

  3. i got a color tv
    so i can see
    the knicks play basketball

    and turn off fucking cnn/msnbc/oan and fox – cuz, shit – they’ll be on later anyways :)

    i honestly thought we’d fall to atlanta, despite witnessing some good basketball played by the knicks with my very own eyes – i keep thinking it’s all about to fall apart at any moment…

  4. “My daughter is killing me for switching the main TV to the Knicks”

    Tell her about the once in a lifetime chance for a 5-3 knicks start and she’ll understand!

  5. Z-man:
    My daughter is killing me for switching the main TV to the Knicks

    Hahahaha

    I can’t believe Mitchell gave 12 million to Greenwich Country Day. That is definitely not a school that needs it.

    More power to him for it though, must have gotten a great education….

  6. #you mean on top of the $200K for college?#

    Definitely.
    Money for college are taken for granted!
    Pay in Hot Cash!

  7. are we honoring mudiay tonight with a video montage…oops…he’s not on the jazz roster anymore…what a shock…

  8. prediction for visiting team journeyman to have a career night against us…..mr jordan clarkson…

  9. Owen: Hahahaha

    I can’t believe Mitchell gave 12 million to Greenwich Country Day. That is definitely not a school that needs it.

    More power to him for it though, must have gotten a great education….

    My brother is pretty sure he played Donovan Mitchell in basketball. He was on his HS JV (I think?) team and they were playing GCDS which only went up to middle school at the time. Apparently GCDS mostly sucked but had one really good player. I guess it eventually clicked for my brother that it was Mitchell.

  10. Fultz down with a non-contact knee injury, looked like it just buckled under him on a plant during a drive. Looks pretty serious. Isaac and Fultz signed for $130M combined just two weeks ago. Crazy!

  11. Guessing Quick and Rivers play more minutes than Elf & BulLOCK

  12. A lot of bad early fouls. Randle should have been called 3 times for the illegal pick.

  13. We look like shit and we’re winning.

    Agreed. There has been SO MUCH sloppy basketball at the start of the season throughout the NBA and I think having Thibs here helps the Knciks so much in that type of scenario. When things get sloppy, the Knicks excel because they are so much more disciplined.

  14. I’ve felt for a while that illegal screens should be violations resulting in a turnover and not offensive fouls, unless they are blatant. It is not good for the game when a player adds to his foul total when there wasn’t any real contact.

  15. Our offensive spacing is trash. We need to change this lineup against a defensive anchored by Gobert. Surely Thibs sees it.

  16. in what universe is thibs correlating randle bringing the ball up court with positive outcomes?

    can’t somebody else who can actually dribble and make good decisions on the break bring it up instead?

  17. RJ needs to learn how to set up screens- that offensive foul on Randle wouldn’t have happened if just let Randle get set. Happens a lot.

  18. I like that Randle was looking to lob to Mitch there, but it was not great

  19. you can’t wait for the screener most of the time or else you let the defense get set… that’s usually on the screener to get to the spot and set themselves….

  20. Gotta be Marbury and Clyde.

    vincoug:
    Marbury’s gotta be one of the answers to the trivia question.

  21. We have all the weaknesses of a small ball lineup and none of the advantages

  22. We need more PnR, the Randle offense isn’t going to cut it tonight

  23. the Knicks excel because they are so much more disciplined

    well those are certainly some words strung together that i’d have suspected i would never see written…

  24. Starting to think that 200+ post thread about whether or not we’re too good was a little premature

  25. I don’t know what we’re doing wrong, we’re leaving them wide open from 3 like we normally do

  26. Should Mitch practice the FT instead of the 3P ball?

    you really need to prove that you can hit the shorter shot with some consistency before you want them to shoot twice as far….

    unless you want them to shoot like 10% or something…. which is why ppl wanting ben simmons to shoot 3s when he can’t even hit his free throws is weird….

  27. I’m not a fan of the lineup Thibs put out there to start the game. It always puts us at a disadvantage.

  28. 5 minutes and change for Quickley, then out. He’s basically on probation, solely because he’s a rookie.

  29. We need Randle or Payton in the game at all times, the rest of the team can’t create.

  30. How is Knox -21 in less than 10 minutes. That is impressive.

    Well, regression to the mean is undefeated…

  31. I did not think Quickley looked good out there tonight. Conley was abusing him at both ends.

  32. I don’t know what we’re doing wrong, we’re leaving them wide open from 3 like we normally do

    Invisible Sixth Man is watching the Capitol tonight.

  33. Not more really need be said; the Knicks have to move beyond the mosh pit offense and lineup. It gets smoked almost every game.

  34. It was a weird decision by Payton to give it up right there.

  35. Blessing to be this close. They’re still playing hard … as soon as Mitch comes out it’s tough. Randle needs to calm down …

  36. Figures that the only time Barrett makes a shot is when it doesn’t count.

    Gotta give Payton credit for spearheading that late 2nd quarter rally.

    I still think our spacing benefits from having him and Randle play on two different lineups.

  37. I can’t believe Rudy beat Mitch off the dribble. At least they showed some fight though.

    Lot of sloppy boneheaded stuff.

  38. Let’s hope that We’ll beat them on conditioning in the second cause playing against the zone with Gobert in the middle without 3pshooters is like trying to conquer a castle with trambolinos

  39. Reality check for a lot of guys (RJ 0-6, Bad Julius 5-13, Mitch losing with Gobert).

    I watched Utah’s game yesterday and they missed a lot of open threes, tonight they’re not.

    Injuries are weighing more every day, it’s one thing to play one or two games with and 8 men rotation another to do it for weeks (after a reduced training camp).

    Let’s see if Thibs could work his magic in the clubhouse.

  40. Once again our starters are 0 for everything on 3s. Like last game we’re going to need to rely on Rivers, Knox, & IQ to bury a bunch of 3s in the second half.

  41. Elsewhere, Brad Beal is simultaneously making his case for other teams to trade for him and making sure his new team’s cupboard is threadbare when it signs on the dotted line.

  42. Querly Q-Word, Pen Name of Pen Name Early Bird:
    Once again our starters are 0 for everything on 3s. Like last game we’re going to need to rely on Rivers, Knox, & IQ to bury a bunch of 3s in the second half.

    This is why I hate our starting lineup’s configuration. Their offensive spacing is trash puts us in a hole and then we have to wait for whatever second squad comes up to bail it out.

  43. Ntilakilla: This is why I hate our starting lineup’s configuration. Their offensive spacing is trash puts us in a hole and then we have to wait for whatever second squad comes up to bail it out.

    hopefully once thibs has a full arsenal of bodies…he will change it up…otherwise ….have to start questioning his awareness..

  44. Robinson looks gassed … they’re all playing hard. Need next unit to do the same. Same energy same grit

  45. RJ finally on the board and now we’re somehow only down 4

  46. doesn’t seem like we should be in this but we are. gobert really looks like he’s half assing it every other possession or so.

  47. No one can stop the 3rd quarter Knicks!

    Bradley Beal has 57 and there’s still 9 minutes to go, what the hell is happening

  48. Bruno Almeida:
    No one can stop the 3rd quarter Knicks!

    Bradley Beal has 57 and there’s still 9 minutes to go, what the hell is happening

    Lol, Beal has had enough of Westbrook thinking of himself as the go to scorer.

  49. Mitch and Ingles amiably chatting during free throws. They seem like compatible personalities, come to think about it. Both have this nonchalant vibe, Mitch being a space cadet and Ingles being Australian.

  50. Conley has been good this season, but tonight he looks totally washed

  51. Are the Knicks actually capable of playing defense? Amazing end to the quarter, this team is exciting to watch

  52. I was writing a thing about how Knox backing up Mitch AND Randle is not ideal but that was some nice work that was. Not waiving Spellman and picking up another big is turning out to be a sizable mistake.

  53. “I’m not a fan of the lineup Thibs put out there to start the game. It always puts us at a disadvantage.”

    I’ve been okay with the starting lineup, to be honest. I just ran through the first quarters of all our games. Over all, the team has a positive 11 at that point in the game, and were never down by more than 4 in any game. I realize players swap out at stages in the first, but in general we’ve done pretty well with the starters, at least early on.

    Having said that, I’m a big fan of closing out with Quivers.

  54. Randle showed a lot of fight not getting dejected after his start.

    Payton is one of the weirder players in the NBA. He can carve up quality defenses with decent frequency and yet he’s mostly not good.

  55. payton is not good based purely on the fact that he doesn’t shoot 3s…. everything else he’s really good….

  56. I like that Mitch grabbed the inbound pass on one side of Favors and then dunks on the other side of him. There’s just something so much more beautiful and ferocious about a Mitch slam than anything else on the court (except a Mitch block).

  57. man this obsession over quickley …… we’re up against the jazz and we’re second guessing rotations still?

  58. Payton is also a poor free throw shooter for a guard. I made a joke about a cross of Quickley and Payton being a great player but if Payton could draw a ton of fouls, convert freebies at 85%, and hit some threes he’d be a significantly better player

  59. I think he was less affected by the wrist surgery them Skynet coming online

  60. djphan:
    man this obsession over quickley …… we’re up against the jazz and we’re second guessing rotations still?

    Him not playing is ridiculous, so yeah. This is shaping up as a pure merc win, if it’s a win.

  61. I wanted Quickley in because he draws fouls, can shoot the 3, and pass. Rivers can’t really do the first or last thing. But I’ll settle for Reggie!

  62. Just a reminder: Gobert is on a $205M contract and Mitch’s contract isn’t even $5M.

  63. Man, they are making the Jazz look bad! It’s awesome! And the Jazz got embarrassed last night, too, so you know they would be coming hard for the Knicks tonight and yet…

  64. djphan:
    man this obsession over quickley …… we’re up against the jazz and we’re second guessing rotations still?

    Thibs is coaching like this is game 7 of the finals instead of the 8th game of the season. We’ve effectively gone with a 7 man rotation in this game. We’re probably going to have 3 players play 40+ minutes with Randle a tick under.

  65. vincoug: Thibs is coaching like this is game 7 of the finals instead of the 8th game of the season.We’ve effectively gone with a 7 man rotation in this game.We’re probably going to have 3 players play 40+ minutes with Randle a tick under.

    Yeah, this is bullshit. I don’t care if they win with this kind of rotation, so nuke and throw shit at me as you will.

  66. Thibs is coaching like this is game 7 of the finals instead of the 8th game of the season. We’ve effectively gone with a 7 man rotation in this game. We’re probably going to have 3 players play 40+ minutes with Randle a tick under.

    but why is this criticism only showing up when it’s quickley sitting? this isn’t a new thing…. this has been happening all year….

  67. If Randle replaces Knox we need to get Payton replaced by a shooter, its as simple as that for our spacing.

  68. Yeah, this is bullshit. I don’t care if they win with this kind of rotation, so nuke and throw shit at me as you will.

    does that mean you’ll disappear and stop trolling this board finally after two years?

    bye felicia!

  69. I think Thibs has done a great job. I just think Quickley is better than Rivers and should have gotten more time. I also think Knox should basically never play. It’s not a severe criticism at all, so idk why we have to talk about it in-game

  70. The reason people bring up Quickley is because we have too many guys out there who aren’t a threat to shoot 3s when any combination of Randle, Mitch and Payton are out.

  71. With Obi and Noel both out and Spellman useless, Knox is basically our only backup big. So I don’t begrudge Thibs playing him under these circumstances.

    I’d definitely like to see some of the Rivers/Quickley backcourt, but this lineup on the floor right now is very much cooking with gas.

  72. Why the fuck is Austin Rivers with us is something I still don’t understand, I can’t believe he didn’t have a single better offer than the garbage contract we gave him

  73. Bruno Almeida:
    Why the fuck is Austin Rivers with us is something I still don’t understand, I can’t believe he didn’t have a single better offer than the garbage contract we gave him

    My first guess is his reputation as a meme

  74. We need some work on the late game ballhandling

    One area where Quickley would be very helpful, though he’s pretty cold by this point.

  75. We look a little rough, but that was a bad call on the out of bounds defensive possession and a bad no-call on over the back after that.

  76. I’m just going along for the ride, y’all can discuss all the merc shit you want, I’m on the hype train officially

  77. Anybody who’s a supposed Knicks fan who can’t enjoy this win because OMG Payton and Randle played too many minutes must be some pretty miserable people.

  78. thenoblefacehumper:
    Starting to think that 200 post thread about whether or not we’re too good was a little premature

    In retrospect, I was the fool for suggesting the best team in the East should consider missing the playoffs.

  79. Alan:
    I can’t believe I was ever annoyed about the Rivers signing.

    Even the originally assumed 3 x 10m contract would not be that annoying.

  80. Mitch ain’t a merc, he’s in the lineup.

    And Thibs fixed the spacing problem by replacing Barrett instead of Payton so I don’t give a shit about Quickley being out, especially with Austin going off.

    It was the right and fair move to make since Elf was killing it.

  81. Merc is short for mercenary. Someone paid to fight on a contract basis. In the Knicks sense it means old overpaid veterans who won’t be a part of our future.

    Mitch played more minutes than Randle. Did not see that coming.

    Good win, I never liked Jalen Suggs anyway…

  82. I mean… We won going away. Huh?

    If only the crowd at the Garden were real. Can you imagine?

  83. Biggest game by a Rivers family member in a Knicks uniform since Doc in Game 4 vs Indiana to close out that series in 1993.

  84. Would anybody upset if we are a top 8 seed at end of the season and not in lottery?
    If we end up 9 or just few slots outside the playoff will still affect our lottery standing ?

  85. A little known clause in Austin Rivers’ contract mandates he play like the AAU version

  86. LOLOLOLOLOL

    This team never ceases to pleasantly amaze me these days.

    Its truly a collective effort.

    A new hero every night.

  87. shit like this is why you don’t waste all your superlatives early afternoon hyperbolizing minor chicanery like the Us capitol being taken by mutinous lunatics

  88. Tonight…

    All of America: “one of the darkest days in our history”

    Knicks fans: “HOLY SHIT GUYS THIS IS AWESOME!”

  89. Well damn. We’re on an honest to god win streak!!! Fizzy only had a single 3 game win streak for his entire tenure.

  90. i can see why Thibs is so beloved by this team.

    He truly doesn’t play favorites.

    If you perform he will find a way to keep you in and mix up different combinations to make it work.

  91. With the Thunder and Hornets next, they could be 7-3 going into the Nets game at the Garden, which would be an absolute madhouse if there could be fans.

  92. Ntilakilla:
    i can see why Thibs is so beloved by this team.

    He truly doesn’t play favorites.

    If you perform he will find a way to keep you in and mix up different combinations to make it work.

    Well, technically Quickley performed fantastically in the last game and barely sniffed the court tonight, but generally, yeah, I guess so.

  93. djphan:
    so randle is lebron… and rivers is kyrie irving….

    it’s not 2020 anymore….

    Psssh. When did LeBron ever average 11 points per game?

    OKC up next.

  94. Doug Chu:
    After a crappy start to the game, Randle finishes with a 30-16-7 line.

    Still was a pretty bad game overall with 5 TOs and ~31 True Shot Attempts. But hey, we needed it and won.

    Payton and Rivers both stepped up big.

    Mitch is a god on defense. Who needs Noel anyways? The new improved Mitch can stay on the court all 48 minutes that Thibs wants to play him.

  95. Thibs’s magic work again!

    After asking for threes and been served by Bullock (thank you sir!) I stop writing for fear of jinxing…

    This team never give up, it’s unbelievable.

    Really good game by Payton, Mitch surged in the second half, Randle was inefficient but did a lot of things,
    Bullock was solid and RJ stunk. Knox didn’t miss a shot and was -14, Quickley was ineffected and then glued to the bench, I hope is not injured.

    And Rivers… he must walk with caution or he’s gonna stumble in his own giant balls.

    Also, I understand the fear for all the minutes some guys are playing, but the bench is really short, let’s keep the criticism for when everyone’ll be back.

  96. BigBlueAL:
    Biggest game by a Rivers family member in a Knicks uniform since Doc in Game 4 vs Indiana to close out that series in 1993.

    great reference, good old days…

  97. I’ve always been a lifelong Austin Rivers fan. Not many know this.

    Same

    Edit: don’t look up old threads and find anything to contradict that

  98. It never cease to amuse me watching Donovan Mitchell chunking 3s trying to catch up. Who does he think he is? Austin Rivers?

  99. Coming back from 18 against a team of Utah’s caliber is a legit win, really. These are the games we lost every single time with Fizdale in charge. I’m always heavily skeptical of coaches and their influence on a team with limited talent, but you gotta hand it to Thibs, he built a damn scrappy team that won’t give up easily.

    With the flattened odds and our general cursed luck in terms of moving up in the draft, I’m honestly just going to enjoy this and see how it goes. The kids are still playing, they’re getting some wins and some confidence, Mitch is developing pretty well, Barrett is adding things to his game, I don’t see why anyone should be unhappy with this win.

  100. heavencent35:
    Would anybody upset if we are a top 8 seed at end of the season and not in lottery?
    If we end up 9 or just few slots outside the playoff will still affect our lottery standing ?

    At this point, yeah, I would be mad if we were the 8 seed. I want to go to the Finals!

    BTW…enough with the merc talk. Every guy on this team could be easily re-signed. It’s not like we need to make room for Giannis,

  101. E, two-way G-Leaguer: Well, technically Quickley performed fantastically in the last game and barely sniffed the court tonight, but generally, yeah, I guess so.

    I think he makes his determinations on a game by game basis. He’s not penalizing you because you had a bad previous game or propping you up because of a terrific one before. Payton was nailing buckets, playing well and led the comeback so he stayed in. RJ was missing his shots so he sat down for the better shooter in Rivers to compliment Elf.

  102. Joinone:
    It never cease to amuse me watching Donovan Mitchell chunking 3s trying to catch up. Who does he think he is? Austin Rivers?

    Haha.

  103. Hubert:
    Tonight…

    All of America: “one of the darkest days in our history”

    Knicks fans: “HOLY SHIT GUYS THIS IS AWESOME!”

    Ha! Sadly, it me.

  104. Tremendous win. They are banking some big wins early. Those wins don’t go away, ya know? This was huge.

  105. E, two-way G-Leaguer: Well, technically Quickley performed fantastically in the last game and barely sniffed the court tonight, but generally, yeah, I guess so.

    Well, having Payton play the entire 2nd half of the 8th game of the season is much more important than developing our players.

  106. i really think if we want to increase the upside of this squad we need to hit the lottery… there is real talent this year and the upside on this team isn’t that high…. we’re not better than indiana and indiana is like a 4 or 5 seed…. that means perennial 1st rd exits… that’s even if RJ takes a leap…..

    so yea i would be upset about making the 8th seed …. there is probably a huge difference between the 10th and 15th pick for example this year…. so it could matter a lot more than it usually does….

    but that’s too soon to think of.. i don’t think we’re good enough yet to be afraid of that scenario just yet… but it’s fun to watch a functional team in the mean time…..

  107. @MikeVorkunov
    Obi Toppin was evaluated yesterday. Knicks rookie will advance to next stage of his rehab. No contact in practice yet but will start running and jumping, then on-court workouts. Toppin hasn’t played since Dec. 23
    Thibs: “He’s making good progress and we just have to be patient.”

  108. Man, I was surprised how easily Utah folded. It was similar to the way Atlanta did in a way. They built this big ass lead and were expecting to bury us or something, i dunno. Because once the team surged back a few times they really didn’t mount too much resistance.

  109. You know early in his career I thought Austin Rivers would be playing in China by now. He was Knox/Frank level bad his first couple of years- he looked like a sure-fire washout. But he scrapped and became a decent bench guy and obviously has now morphed into a superstar.

  110. @JCMacriNBA
    In the postgame, to emphasize Austin Rivers’ confidence, Thibs tells a story from when he coached in Boston and Austin Rivers – then in high school – would come to Celtics’ practices and challenge Kevin Garnett.

    Seems like it’s serving him well here.

  111. Man, I was surprised how easily Utah folded. It was similar to the way Atlanta did in a way. They built this big ass lead and were expecting to bury us or something, i dunno. Because once the team surged back a few times they really didn’t mount too much resistance.

    That really did feel like it, right? It was very familiar to the Atlanta game. That’s a good sign of the control Thibs has over this team. They don’t give up, unlike these other teams.

  112. djphan:
    i really think if we want to increase the upside of this squad we need to hit the lottery… there is real talent this year and the upside on this team isn’t that high…. we’re not better than indiana and indiana is like a 4 or 5 seed…. that means perennial 1st rd exits… that’s even if RJ takes a leap…..

    so yea i would be upset about making the 8th seed …. there is probably a huge difference between the 10th and 15th pick for example this year…. so it could matter a lot more than it usually does….

    but that’s too soon to think of.. i don’t think we’re good enough yet to be afraid of that scenario justyet… but it’s fun to watch a functional team in the mean time…..

    I agree with you, but after spending half a day thinking about it, I’mma put a personal moratorium on being anything other than all in on this team for now. Will re-evaluate at the 1/4 point.

  113. It’s gonna really suck to watch the All-Star game this year with Randle/Burks/Rivers in the starting lineup, we might as well just watch the Knicks.

  114. Brian Cronin: That really did feel like it, right? It was very familiar to the Atlanta game. That’s a good sign of the control Thibs has over this team. They don’t give up, unlike these other teams.

    I think teams are still caught up in believing this is the same old sorry ass Knicks they can wash in 3 quarters and sit out with garbage time bench scrubs in the 4th. It’s the only way I can explain the response I am seeing from our last two opponents. They seem surprised in a way and don’t have an answer for when they get taken to deep waters by a rotation of 8 players who should be exhausted by the fourth quarter.

  115. Yeah man it would be truly awful and destroy the franchise if the 2nd youngest team in the NBA makes the playoffs for the first time in 8 years. Will set the franchise back a decade.

  116. I didn’t watch this

    Joinone:
    Dang 60 points from Beal and it still wasn’t enough. Even sadder for DC now

    I would trade him by the end of breakfast tomorrow. That team is fucking dreadful and they need a bottom-up rebuild. Hell, use whatever you get to offload the Westbrook contract, too.

    Beal came up short at the end. Missed four in a row, I think.

  117. BigBlueAL:
    Yeah man it would be truly awful and destroy the franchise if the 2nd youngest team in the NBA makes the playoffs for the first time in 8 years.Will set the franchise back a decade.

    LOL exactly.

  118. One of the best parts of that game was just how clearly happy Clyde was announcing it. He was positively gleeful. He deserves it.

  119. Jesus.

    NEWS: An hour before Congress reconvened, President Trump's lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, left a voicemail for Sen. Tommy Tuberville, imploring him to delay & promising new information tomorrow.The problem? Giuliani left his msg on another senator's voicemail.https://t.co/69LhTwE2Fm— Stephen Hayes (@stephenfhayes) January 7, 2021

  120. I pity you young’uns that never experienced the joy of Clyde in his long, illustrious prime. He was perfect.

  121. Z-man:
    I pity you young’uns that never experienced the joy of Clyde in his long, illustrious prime. He was perfect.

    There’s no way Clyde was better than greatest Knicks PG of my generation, Chris Duhon.

  122. Hubert: I agree with you, but after spending half a day thinking about it, I’mma put a personal moratorium on being anything other than all in on this team for now. Will re-evaluate at the 1/4 point.

    Yeah, basically this. They’re going to beat the Thunder and will be 6-3 overall; 6-1 in their last 7. Typically, teams that start out that way are playoff teams. If they then go like 2-1 against the Nuggets, Hornets, and Nets, they’re 8-4. If they beat each of the Hornets, Nuggets, and Nets, it’s Dr. Strangelove, How I Stopped Worrying and Learned to Love time.

  123. People are rioting in DC trying to stop our democracy, we’ve got 350K dead from the pandemic, the one percent is amassing all of the world’s wealth while the rest of us struggle and climate change threatens our very existence and some people are upset the Knicks might make the playoffs. Dude, life is short. Enjoy it.

  124. This was an amazing win. We are missing some key pieces. The Jazz were on a back to back, but the Knicks have been so short handed a lot these guys have to be a bit tired or hurting. They were asked to play big minutes again. To finish this well was really amazing.

    I take back everything I said about Rivers. I really didn’t see the point of signing him because we are so deep (not good but deep) at the combo guard position. But he has a lot of skills, defends well, and is not afraid. I’m still not sure I want him taking minutes away from certain other players if the plan is to trade him for an asset eventually, but maybe the plan is to keep him long term. Tonight he was crazy good, but there are going to be nights he’s going to shoot us out of games too.

    I think it’s time for Randle to back off on the 3s unless he wide open.

  125. Z-man:
    Cam Reddish with the nifty 3-15 tonight…

    LaMelo looking like a future superstar…

    Yep. Great game for Hayward.

    That Chris Duhon joke really made me chuckle

  126. a quiet nba development is that cam johnson looks like a pretty damn good player that might matter this year to a pretty good team.

  127. In case anyone didn’t catch it, I was joking about Duhon

    If it weren’t for Marbury, it really would be sad how little of a difference it would make who I chose. And the fact that it’s Marbury is itself kind of sad.

  128. This was an amazing win.

    What happened in NYC tonight will be a footnote that no one will care about in a few months.

    This was not an amazing win or anything even remotely like it. The media is fvcking insane. It wasn’t a large margin of victory and no one outside of r/nyknicks is praising it. It’s a few idiots that think they were cheated because the 2018-19 Knicks got shafted in the lottery and probably really think that the “powers that be” (including Twitter pundits and ESPN talking heads) all aligned to trash-talk them by any means necessary and that included ignoring their league-leading Opponent 3PT%, which is definitely legit.

  129. That trade by Phoenix to get Saric and Johnson was ridiculed up and down and it was a gem for them.

  130. Ntilakilla:
    Man, I was surprised how easily Utah folded. It was similar to the way Atlanta did in a way. They built this big ass lead and were expecting to bury us or something, i dunno. Because once the team surged back a few times they really didn’t mount too much resistance.

    They may have been a little gassed from the back to back, but I think the credit goes to Thibs and the players. Utah probably expected the Knicks to lay down once they opened up a big lead, but they made some adjustments, came out hard, scrapped their way back into the game and did not fold despite some players playing huge minutes. Thibs has these guys in mid reason shape now while everyone else is just starting to get in shape. Eventually everyone else will catch up. Let’s hope our players get healthy soon so we don’t wear down.

  131. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    The most intelligent person I’ve even known whose world view on everything is wrong (especially basketball).

  132. The Honorable Cock Jowles
    January 6, 2021 at 9:33 pm
    I see Thibs is going with a 7-man playoff rotation for game 8 of the season

    So I saw this comment in the last thread and I came here to make a joke about my comment being plagiarized and the I looked at it:

    vincoug
    January 6, 2021 at 9:33 pm
    djphan:
    man this obsession over quickley …… we’re up against the jazz and we’re second guessing rotations still?

    Thibs is coaching like this is game 7 of the finals instead of the 8th game of the season. We’ve effectively gone with a 7 man rotation in this game. We’re probably going to have 3 players play 40+ minutes with Randle a tick under.

    That’s just weird.

  133. swiftandabundant:
    People are rioting in DC trying to stop our democracy, we’ve got 350K dead from the pandemic, the one percent is amassing all of the world’s wealth while the rest of us struggle and climate change threatens our very existence and some people are upset the Knicks might make the playoffs. Dude, life is short. Enjoy it.

    95% of the people in this country are foolishly listening to people that are corrupt and/or idiots in the media.

    Don’t be one of them.

    The issues in DC will be over quickly.

    The pandemic will be almost over in 5-6 months.

    The earth is going to prosper even more as it gets warmer (albeit with some disruption and change).

    However, the wealth distribution problem is real and won’t get fixed without a major overhaul to our monetary system. The problem is Wall St, large commercial banks, central bankers, and governments aren’t going to give up their control over money easily and the long term debt loads from promises made by corrupt incompetent politicians that cannot be kept aren’t going away (more to come over the next 2 years). There will be hard times and hell to pay when those promises come due and government can’t deliver. Most people here are young and facing a sh$t storm in the future they don’t fully understand and aren’t prepared to deal with.

  134. Deeefense: 95% of the people in this country are foolishly listening to people that are corrupt and/or idiots in the media.

    Don’t be one of them.

    The issues in DC will be over quickly.

    The pandemic will be almost over in 5-6 months.

    The earth is going to prosper even more as it gets warmer (albeit with some disruption and change).

    However, the wealth distribution problem is real and won’t get fixed without a major overhaul to our monetary system.The problem is Wall St, large commercial banks, central bankers, and governments aren’t going to give up their control over money easily and the long term debt loads from promises made by corrupt incompetent politicians that cannot be kept aren’t going away (more to come over the next 2 years).There will be hard times and hell to pay when those promises come due and government can’t deliver.Most people here are young and facing a sh$t storm in the future they don’t fully understand and aren’t prepared to deal with.

    Do you have primary sources for all these claims?

  135. vincoug: Do you have primary sources for all these claims?

    They are thoughts that occurred in his brain and sounded smart. That’s about as primary as it gets, hombre.

  136. “The earth is going to prosper even more as it gets warmer (albeit with some disruption and change). ”

    Sorry, Strat, I try to avoid commenting on your political takes but I can’t with this one. Do you have kids or grandkids? Ask them about melting icecaps and future massive global upheaval, I wonder how they feel? Are they looking forward to years of “prosperity”?

    Jesus….

  137. Mike Honcho: They are thoughts that occurred in his brain and sounded smart. That’s about as primary as it gets, hombre.

    It takes a certain resilience to revel in being the laughingstock of an online forum…

  138. Z-man: It takes a certain resilience to revel in being the laughingstock of an online forum…

    From a distance, there is a certain Quixotic elegance to the level of commitment to the bit, but only from a distance. I mean, at this point pretty much any regular here can probably accurately predict Strat’s take on any hotbutton issue. Strat has become the Fitzcarraldo of bad takes, doggedly dragging his ship through the jungle of lies and omnipresent brain damage to the river of Primary Sources and Original Research.

  139. Doug Chu: lololol Jowles didn’t even watch the game but he’s determined to be a spoilsport about it

    it was a reference to last thread, not my sincere beliefs

    but also meh (just kidding I did not think this team would be 5-3 and even if they lose the next four, that’s still better than I predicted)

  140. Querly Q-Word, Pen Name of Pen Name Early Bird: Doug Chu:
    After a crappy start to the game, Randle finishes with a 30-16-7 line.

    Still was a pretty bad game overall with 5 TOs and ~31 True Shot Attempts. But hey, we needed it and won.

    I don’t see how anyone could look at that line and call it “bad”. Maybe inefficient but bad? Come on. Maybe our standards are a bit high…

  141. Deeefense: The earth is going to prosper even more as it gets warmer (albeit with some disruption and change).

    How did Trump not come up with this line (maybe without Strat’s paranthetical)? This is literally the dumbest thing anyone has ever posted on this site.

  142. It’s not that we’re 5-3. It’s the way we’re playing. They have great chemistry and commitment. Nearly everyone is showing improvement or play above expectations. And they’ve been very banged up, yet beating good teams by outworking them the New York way. That’s pretty cool.

  143. Deeefense: The earth is going to prosper even more as it gets warmer (albeit with some disruption and change).

    David Attenborough would like a word with you.

  144. Deeefense: The earth is going to prosper even more as it gets warmer (albeit with some disruption and change).

    Check out the big brain on this guy

  145. It’s not that we’re 5-3. It’s the way we’re playing. They have great chemistry and commitment. Nearly everyone is showing improvement or play above expectations. And they’ve been very banged up, yet beating good teams by outworking them the New York way. That’s pretty cool.

    You really would think that a good team would want Thibs. He reminds me of the days of Jeff Van Gundy and Mike Fratello, guys who could get water from a stone. Like, a good offensive team with a suspect defense.

  146. The Fratello Cavaliers are what the Knicks sort of remind me of. An extremely disciplined team that punches way above its weight. The coaching is outstanding.

  147. Thibs may have improved in his time off. It also seems like the entire staff has been great. Rose deserves some credit there.

  148. I mean, the WORLD is going to be fine. The people who live on it will suffer immensely, but the planet will no doubt continue rotating! It’ll be more ocean-y, but I’m sure The World will enjoy having bigger oceans.

    It’ll all be chill.

  149. Sure, west coast team on the second half of a back to back-maybe not the greatest win in Knicks history, but Utah are a good team and had a big lead at halftime. You’re not allowed to humbug this one jowles go sit in the corner.

  150. Brian Cronin:
    The Fratello Cavaliers are what the Knicks sort of remind me of. An extremely disciplined team that punches way above its weight. The coaching is outstanding.

    nicos:
    Thibs may have improved in his time off. It also seems like the entire staff has been great. Rose deserves some credit there.

    Thibs has been put in a position to succeed, relatively speaking.

    His perceived flaws involved disconnect with management (CHI), not up to combined GM/coach role, antiquated ideas about schemes, or relating to certain young players, or playing certain guys way too many minutes.

    But now:
    -he and Rose are buddies
    -his role is limited to coaching
    -he spent some of his hiatus learning about analytics
    -he has a team without any players more important to the franchise than he is (for now) so it’s his way or the highway. That said, he has a good mix of young and non-diva veteran players

    The minutes management is still wince-inducing, but beyond that, he’s looking like a COTY candidate thus far.

  151. How embarrassingly bad was Mitchell tonight? He was, like, the worst parody of people’s concerns about him as a player.

  152. Donovan Mitchell 8-23, 18 points 4 rebounds 4 assists and 4 TOs

    Elfrid Payton 10-15, 22 points 2 rebounds 8 assists and 1 TO

    I know who I would rather have

  153. Tight rotation wasn’t bad tonight. Rivers got plenty of play, Knox spelled Mitch and Randle about as much as he could without killing us, and Quickley got eaten up in his minutes. Weren’t Burks/Noel/Spellman/Iggy/DSj injured? “This game needs more Harper is not a thought I had.

  154. Rewatching the game…wow, Mitch really did end up getting the best of one of the top centers in the game. Good for him.

  155. finished the game a little bit ago…

    hubie, you had me rolling, so fucked up, and yet so true:

    Tonight…

    All of America: “one of the darkest days in our history”

    Knicks fans: “HOLY SHIT GUYS THIS IS AWESOME!”

  156. Who of you guys wanted Conley? I’m not impressed! :P

    I was hoping for either: bledsoe, conley, rubio or teague..

    it’s why I’m just a fan and d-red is the gm…

  157. just finished the thread – as usual you guys killed it…so many great posts…

    final thought on the game and yesterday’s most significant events:

    damn but did rebecca look hella sexy in that shirt…she even looks hot with a mask, it highlights her eyes…

  158. The more I see Mitch defensively dominate without fouling out the more I am reminded of when Happy Gilmore tells Shooter McGavin, “Happy learned how to put. Uh-Oh!” This is a paradigm shifter.

  159. Alan: Ha! Sadly, it me.

    I would argue that the two are complementary. I watched the game on TV and the speeches on my laptop, after being relegated to a bedroom by my wife and daughter. Watching the Knicks has been an escapist balm as we await the end of the toxic dumpster fire we have endured for the past four years. This is the first time in years that I find myself yelling at the TV during a Knick game. Notwithstanding the arguments that the approach we are taking is sub-optimal, we have a basis for rational hope.

  160. Ntilakilla:
    The more I see Mitch defensively dominate without fouling out the more I am reminded of when Happy Gilmore tells Shooter McGavin, “Happy learned how to put. Uh-Oh!” This is a paradigm shifter.

    It’s not just the lack of fouling. It’s everything about his defensive awareness and positioning. I’ve spent two years trying to pump the brakes on the Mitch enthusiasm, back when he was getting by purely on raw talent and didn’t seem to know basic fundamentals of defense. But I watch him in a game like this and feel utterly confident and at ease that he knows what he’s doing, both in terms of his own man and the larger team defense. You can see him out there now directing guys in the same way that a point guard does when setting up an offensive set. He still has some bad possessions now and then, but Thibs has taken that beautiful clay and molded it into something real. I love it.

  161. The Honorable Cock Jowles: What happened in NYC tonight will be a footnote that no one will care about in a few months.

    This was not an amazing win or anything even remotely like it. The media is fvcking insane. It wasn’t a large margin of victory and no one outside of r/nyknicks is praising it. It’s a few idiots that think they were cheated because the 2018-19 Knicks got shafted in the lottery and probably really think that the “powers that be” (including Twitter pundits and ESPN talking heads) all aligned to trash-talk them by any means necessary and that included ignoring their league-leading Opponent 3PT%, which is definitely legit.

    this is some of your best work.

    to everyone taking it literally: don’t.

  162. for real, though… can we change that up arrow that takes you to the top of the thread to a down arrow that takes you to the bottom, or is not possible?

    That would be this site’s equivalent of going from Fizdale to Thibs.

  163. Truly remarkable win last night – I thought Randle was kinda bad but obviously had great counting stats, but he’s trying to score inside on Rudy Gobert, the presence of Gobert allowed the Jazz to stay home a bit more on shooters, and so that’s what you get. 30/16/7 on an off night will do. He also looked totally gassed at the end of the game — I’m sure he was perfectly happy that Rivers went supernova (it would be cool to see when the last time a Knick scored 14 points in like 5 seconds with the game in the balance like that – as many points as Melo scored for us, I don’t think he ever had a stretch like that in the last few minutes of a game?)

    Re: the minutes – it is pretty worrisome, but it seemed he was strategically spacing timeouts to get the players a breather every 8 min or so of real time. And when you’re trying to get a team (that probably won’t make the playoffs) to believe, banking those crunch time wins is invaluable.

  164. Meanwhile we have OKC, Denver, and Charlotte coming up before a nationally televised game against Brooklyn next Wednesday 1/13. It’s entirely possible we are 7-4 going into that game. Both the Knicks and Nets will be on their 3rd game in 4 nights, although the Nets will play on 1/12 and we have 1/12 off.

    Gotta hope that Thibs takes the foot off the gas a little in terms of minutes with that compressed a schedule this weekend and next week.

  165. Re: the minutes – it is pretty worrisome,

    It’s very worrying, as is the probationary burying of a good young player, just because he’s a rookie. Quickley didn’t get “eaten up” anymore last night than he did in his similar cameo first half in Atlanta.

    I’m certainly going to enjoy the run, but there’s a lot of smoke and mirrors and potential red flags here right now. No need to completely waver on philosophy after eight games, especially when they aren’t “paced” games in the way other teams pace their games to get through 82. Other teams don’t play 7 man rotations when they’re playing another team playing a back to back.

  166. Alan: It’s not just the lack of fouling. It’s everything about his defensive awareness and positioning. I’ve spent two years trying to pump the brakes on the Mitch enthusiasm, back when he was getting by purely on raw talent and didn’t seem to know basic fundamentals of defense. But I watch him in a game like this and feel utterly confident and at ease that he knows what he’s doing, both in terms of his own man and the larger team defense. You can see him out there now directing guys in the same way that a point guard does when setting up an offensive set. He still has some bad possessions now and then, but Thibs has taken that beautiful clay and molded it into something real. I love it.

    It’s like no one ever told him he could show and recover rather than just switching onto a guard on the perimeter. He’s so much more economical in his movement- running less and sliding more, better balance, etc… all of which help eliminate fouls.

  167. 23rd in ORat, still a negative net rating albeit only 0.1. Basically a .500 team with a crappy offense and pretty good defense. I want the offense to get way better and there are clear pockets of time when it is way better. But those pockets never get repeated and it’s back to square one. Don’t fully comprehend.

    So I’m going to enjoy the run while still bemoaning the fact that the run could actually be even better.

  168. Another Knicks Win coinciding with a national event:

    May 4, 1970, Game 5, NBA Finals – Kent State shooting
    June 17, 1994, Game 5, NBA Finals – OJ White Bronco
    January 6, 2021, Knicks win 5th game – Lack of a nearby Taco Bell causes hungry mob to break into Capitol to search for lunch (or an early dinner for those from Florida).

  169. Kelly Iko
    @KellyIkoNBA
    James Harden on today’s events in Washington: I didn’t see it.

    I hated Harden even before this, but what an asshole.

  170. Mitch is growing on defense game by game, yesterday he didn’t start well but he got better and went toe to toe with his touchstone.
    He came into the league without college experience and his “mentors” were Snake Oil and his crew, how could he learn to play defense at all? (I agree with Nicos)
    Now please Mitch, add 1 foot, just 1 foot, to your shooting range…

    Good piece from Vorkunov at the Athletic, centered on Rivers but even talking about other things. This made feel happy:

    “When he comes in and says the stuff he says, there’s no negotiation,” Rivers said. “It’s Thibs’ way or the highway. If you want to play you have to play his way. His way just means hard. He’s not forcing us to take this shot or saying we can’t do this. Thibs is all about effort.”

    (I don’t think Rivers is telling all the truth :-) )

    Rivers’ final five minutes yesterday were a joy to watch.

    And Payton, that I criticize frequently, despite his abysmail shooting limitations gave us a solid game vs Conley/Mitchell, a top backcourt duo.

  171. Frank: I hated Harden even before this, but what an asshole.

    I already disdain his playing style, flopping and blatant foul chasing.
    He just gave me a reason to not keep distinct the person from the player…

  172. by the way – per Cleaning the Glass (which doesn’t count garbage time and end of quarter heave possessions), we have the #4 defense in the league behind Philly, Cleveland (!), and the Lakers.

    And this in spite of playing the hardest schedule in the league

    Hilariously we are #2 in the league in RPI (ie. power rankings –> explainer: Relative Percentage Index aka RPI is widely used to produce power ratings. Unlike most power rating systems, the RPI does not consider the margin of victory or how well a team has played. It only considers whether a team won or lost. In fact, the RPI is based entirely on the winning percentage. It essentially measures a team’s strength of schedule and how a team does against that schedule. It is based 25% on a team’s winning percentage, 50% on the winning percentage of their opponents, and 25% on the winning percentage of their opponent’s opponents.)

  173. Well, i had to stop watching the game at half time, so when checking the final score today, at first i thought we had lost by 12, and then i was like “oh wait, the 112 points are from the Knicks!? we won again!?”.
    What happened? Bad Julius left at halftime? Invisible 6th man accepted the extension?
    Now i’m going to read the comments from halftime and on, to feel the emotions of the game. ;)

  174. We are making the playoffs. Period.

    I am a little worried about the minutes too but OBI and Burkes are definitely part of the rotation and that will cut down on Randle and RJ’s minutes. Frank too seemed to be getting some burn consistently for 10 to 15 a game and I expect Quickley to not always only play 6 minutes.

    I think it’s fine for now.

    The offense will get better. Thibs said with Mitch the offense “is coming.” I think he’s prioritizing just staying on the floor and impacting the defense first before he lets him add layers to his offense and that is totally fine. It’s working.

    But yeah. We are making the playoffs.

  175. I want the offense to get way better and there are clear pockets of time when it is way better. But those pockets never get repeated and it’s back to square one. Don’t fully comprehend.

    It’s got to be hurting our consistency that injuries have forced such a short rotation. Not only is some of our floor spacing and good shooting out (Burks), but so is Noel, so Randle has to play center some times. So everybody gets more tired and Randle has to defend big men more often which adds to the tiredness.

  176. 1. I agree with the comments on Mitch. IMO Mitch is definitely improving his court awareness. He was going nowhere for 2 years and now in 8 games with the new coach and staff he’s suddenly learning how to play basketball. It could make you think coaching matters this coach and his team are great at it.

    2., I have news for you, Knox looks better also. I’m not talking about his stats. He looks more comfortable and aware on both sides.

    3. Randle has to tone down the 3s. He’s never been a good 3 point shooter and he’s not suddenly going to become one at age 26. The hope is he improves enough that he can’t be left totally alone on the perimeter. But he’s not the guy you should be giving the ball to late in the clock to take a 3 or a guy that should be aggressively trying to create one.

    4. Th Knicks better get heathy soon or when the remaining Knicks (like Randle and RJ) start wearing down the media is going to start accusing Thibs of wearing down his players again even though a bunch of our rotation players are still out and he doesn’t have many competent choices at the end of the bench.

    5. I suspect that Thibs is a believer in “hot hand” and short term on/off stats in combination with what he’s seeing with the matchups on the court. He seems to stay with players that are having a good game longer than usual and quickly yank players as soon as they make a few bad plays or the momentum starts changing against us.

  177. Frank:
    by the way – per Cleaning the Glass (which doesn’t count garbage time and end of quarter heave possessions), we have the #4 defense in the league behindPhilly, Cleveland (!), and the Lakers.

    And this in spite of playing the hardest schedule in the league

    Hilariously we are #2 in the league in RPI (ie. power rankings –> explainer: Relative Percentage Index aka RPI is widely used to produce power ratings. Unlike most power rating systems, the RPI does not consider the margin of victory or how well a team has played. It only considers whether a team won or lost. In fact, the RPI is based entirely on the winning percentage. It essentially measures a team’s strength of schedule and how a team does against that schedule. It is based 25% on a team’s winning percentage, 50% on the winning percentage of their opponents, and 25% on the winning percentage of their opponent’s opponents.)

    That’s an interesting system.

    There are some legitimate arguments against using just margin of victory and strength of schedule. Teams change lineups and effort levels during blowouts and the very best teams lock down in the 4th quarter to pull out extra wins in very close games. I used to keep injury reports linked to each game also. So say the Knicks beat the 76ers it would not count nearly as much if my notes said Embiid and/or Simmons were out that night. It’s hard to systemize that, but I’d rather be “approximately right” with my adjustment than wrong.

  178. 8 games into a 72 game season = ~11% of the season
    Not too early to see where we are re: predictions for the full season?

    I am going to say that we will be within striking distance of .500 with 10 games left to play in the season
    my current guess is we go 34-38 and will make the play-in tournament. Assuming no big injuries, I kinda feel like we will settle out as the #20-#25 offense and #10-#15 defense which should lead us to a net rating a little below zero.

  179. The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    I saaaaiiiiiidit was a spoof of a post from the last thread god damn you!!!!!!

    Not everyone reads every comment. I thought it was pretty funny.

    What happened yesterday was a monumental error by police and security, but it was not a threat to the democracy, not coup attempt, or anything else the idiots in the media are calling it.

    X% of the population believes some cheating went on in battle ground states during the election and that media and tech companies interfered in the election with bias. I am close to certain Trump actually believes that too. People were there to protest. That is their right regardless of whether they are correct or not.

    There are lunatics on both sides that think violence, looting, attacking police/security, destroying private property, attacking or shooting public officials etc.. is OK. Hell many people in media and in positions of power have excused it, justified it and even encouraged it when it was “their side” doing it. It’s always wrong, never excusable, should always be condemned, and the people that do things like that should be prosecuted.

    However, the democracy was not in trouble because some idiots got past the police and security into the capital.

    Trump will be in Mar-a-Lago negotiating a book deal in a few weeks. He knows that. He’s probably already talking to people.

  180. I am liking Leon Rose and Tom Thibodeau more and more every day. Today’s praise comes because of rumors (it sounds more like something imminent) that they are going to resign Taj Gibson.
    KFTV tweet
    Hoopsrumors.com

    Who’s getting cut? Odds are it’s Omari Spellman, who, when we last saw him was described as the Stay Puft Marshmello Man. Nobody can be surprised that he’s out “indefinitely” with an injury. The way that a player comes into camp matters. When the shape that a player arrives in is described as “blob”, the player shouldn’t unpack their bags.

    But back to Taj. We need a third real center, one who can be a backup if either Mitch or Noel goes down or foul out. We also can use a veteran on the team. I might have looked at Tyson Chandler too, but Taj played for Thibs. Taj is from NY. Taj belongs. I would welcome him back. He’s the right player and fulfills a need.

  181. He’s probably already talking to people.

    I can tell you he’s not. There’s a real question whether any mainstream publisher will give him a deal. My guess is he self-publishes, similar to what his son did last year.

  182. Deeefense: Randle has to tone down the 3s. He’s never been a good 3 point shooter and he’s not suddenly going to become one at age 26.

    Randle shot 34.4% for the Pelicans two years ago. What’s he shooting now? 34.4%. Since League average is 35%, I would describe him as an average 3 point shooter. Do I classify “average” as good? Well, no. Good means above average. But your lead scorer needs to take those shots if he’s average, if only to make sure that the defense stays honest. So I disagree with the conclusion.

    Frank: Not too early to see where we are re: predictions for the full season?

    Damn. I’m gonna eat crow. I said 18 wins. At this rate the Knicks might have 18 wins by the all-star break. I also hated our approach in free agency. I guess I didn’t predict that Julius Randle would be leading the team in assists, looking more like LeBron James than Jerome James.
    I don’t mind eating crow.

  183. “I don’t mind eating crow.”

    Just… stop it.

    I’m really not concerned (yet) about the rotation minutes. As mentioned, it’s not Harper time — especially in a game where we’re storming back from a big deficit. It’s bookmarked for later, but right now I give Thibs a pass, even with his history. If it’s still happening when folks are back, then there’s a problem.

  184. If it’s still happening when folks are back, then there’s a problem.

    This is where I stand. Quickley didn’t play much last night because Payton and Rivers were on fire, but otherwise, the minutes distribution felt more reflective of (takes deep breath) Burks, Obi, Noel, and Frank being unavailable than it is about Thibs wanting to play a small rotation. When Burks and/or Frank are back, RJ will play a little less. When Obi and/or Noel are back, Randle’s minutes will go down to something a bit more reasonable.

  185. Rivers isn’t great, or probably even good, but it’s definitely useful to have an Irrational Confidence Guy like him. Trier was kind of that guy for us the last few seasons, though he was no great shakes. Rivers feels more like a saner JR Smith, where the highs aren’t quite as high but the lows don’t make you recreate the exasperated LeBron meme.

  186. As someone who has mostly been wet blanket-ing so far I was super impressed last night. One thing that I think hasn’t been discussed much is how much Thibs has gotten this team to push against the league-wide trend towards these huge blowouts. Teams all over the league have been really letting go of the rope when they get down big for whatever reason (maybe lack of fans, maybe the weird offseason, maybe the compressed schedule) but this team so far at least really doesn’t do that.

    Last night was a perfect example – it would’ve been really easy for them accept their fate in the second quarter, roll over and move onto the next one. No fans in the garden, an opponent nobody really expects them to beat, a super crowded schedule both behind and in front of them; nobody would’ve really blamed them for taking a 30 point shellacking and trying again on Friday. It’s a credit to the spirit of the team that we really haven’t seen them throw in the towel like that and last night it put them in a position for Austin Rivers to go supernova (and the Jazz guards to shoot them out of it).

  187. rama is cautiously optimistic: I can tell you he’s not. There’s a real question whether any mainstream publisher will give him a deal. My guess is he self-publishes, similar to what his son did last year.

    Whatever he does, I guarantee you he monetizes his still existing political support and already has most of it planned and in motion.

  188. Randle shot 34.4% for the Pelicans two years ago. What’s he shooting now? 34.4%. Since League average is 35%,

    So we are going to skip over the fact that he was worse in all the years before that and again last year? I’d be more willing to skip over the back years if he was good last year.

  189. It’s really remarkable how Donovan Mitchell is still the same player he was when he came into the league, he hasn’t improved in a single aspect of the game, all his stats are a carbon copy every year outside of some mild fluctuations (and are worse so far this year because he’s been in dreadful form, but will probably revert to the mean).

    He’ll get hyped always because when he’s hitting shots it’s nice to watch him and he has these scoring explosions sometimes that make for great highlights, but maybe, just maybe, the people who thought he had a limited ceiling coming into the league were not wrong.

  190. Deeefense: Whatever he does, I guarantee you he monetizes his still existing political support and already has most of itplanned and in motion.

    the guy couldn’t monetize a fucking casino.

    things are not going to end well for donald j trump.

  191. Deeefense: Not everyone reads every comment.I thought it was pretty funny.

    What happened yesterday was a monumental error by police and security, but it was not a threat to the democracy, not coup attempt,or anything else the idiots in the media are calling it.

    X% of the population believes some cheating went on in battle ground states during the election and that media and tech companies interfered in the election with bias. I am close to certain Trump actually believes that too.People were there to protest.That is their right regardless of whether they are correct or not.

    There are lunatics on both sides that think violence, looting, attacking police/security, destroying private property, attacking or shooting public officials etc..is OK.Hell many people in media and in positions of power have excused it, justified it and even encouraged it when it was “their side” doing it. It’s always wrong, never excusable, should always be condemned, and the people that do things like that should be prosecuted.

    However, the democracy was not in trouble because some idiots got past the police and security into the capital.

    Trump will be in Mar-a-Lago negotiating a book deal in a few weeks. He knows that.He’s probably already talking to people.

    Explain the phone call you dishonest republican apologist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIJU3M-kKhI

  192. Guys, please don’t engage with Strat on politics. It will go nowhere, even if it will never get as ugly or as voluminous as what happened with Bob.

  193. vincoug: Explain the phone call you dishonest republican apologist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIJU3M-kKhI

    Can you prove that Dems wouldn’t have done the same?

    the guy couldn’t monetize a fucking casino.

    ahahahahahahahahahahaha

    He’ll get hyped always because when he’s hitting shots it’s nice to watch him and he has these scoring explosions sometimes that make for great highlights, but maybe, just maybe, the people who thought he had a limited ceiling coming into the league were not wrong.

    He and Jamal Murray are roughly in the same boat (although Murray has improved quite a bit). Paying these guys huge money is a desperation move, given that each team has its legit star big man. But there’s also no real alternative for them. Betting on Mitchell and Murray is just what you have to do, and hope that they have a hot streak across 20 games in the playoffs to get you where you need to go. Neither of them are in the LeBron/Durant/Kawhi level, where you can simply expect superstar play. You need 2019-20 Playoff Mitchell to show up, but you might get 2018-19 Playoff Mitchell instead.

  194. Hubert: things are not going to end well for donald j trump.

    He will actually survive this if he isn’t impeached and banned from office.

    And, yes, “both sides” have street armies egged on or passively enabled by politicians. This is Weimar America and has been basically since Trump was inaugurated. Yesterday’s fiasco doesn’t somehow launder the leftist street violence we’ve seen. Antifa has been trying to burn down the federal courthouse in Portland off and on for months. Even Portland’s uber-passive mayor finally announced in the last few days that he’s had enough.

    We’ve been in a cold civil war for years and it’s heating up and moved to a new phase. Our mature adult institutions have held and I expect them to continue to hold, but the underlying situation on the street and among the masses has clearly worsened.

  195. Alan: what

    But do we have to engage him on basketball then? Pick your poison.

    Even Portland’s uber-passive mayor finally announced in the last few days that he’s had enough.

    While I was getting through security at city hall once, on my, like, 8th trip to visit a department that was being utterly useless on a routine matter, Ted Wheeler (whom I didn’t immediately recognize, because he’s also utterly useless) said, “Hey, this guy looks pretty serious today!” and I was so caught off-guard that I missed my window to tell him to fuck off in turn. One of the great regrets of my life. Weirdly, it was the same day I caught Ron Wyden alone, heading into my local grocery store. I definitely waved too enthusiastically during that one, also a regret. Super nice guy, a homeless person who sells newspapers outside the store asked to take a selfie with her and he stopped to do it.

  196. You could very easily ignore him altogether, Jowles. The basketball is at least on-topic and fairly inconsequential, whereas the other has literal life-and-death stakes. But the more you respond on either subject, the longer those conversations go on, and they do no one any good.

  197. Alan:
    You could very easily ignore him altogether, Jowles. The basketball is at least on-topic and fairly inconsequential, whereas the other has literal life-and-death stakes. But the more you respond on either subject, the longer those conversations go on, and they do no one any good.

    I know, dad. I know. I will stop.

  198. Whatever he does, I guarantee you he monetizes his still existing political support and already has most of it planned and in motion.

    Despite Hubert’s joke, this is true. There’s a lot more money selling direct – you forgo the guaranteed advance, but get roughly 4x per copy sold. If you have access to a large email list, as Trump does, it’s like printing money. Anyone in a band can verify that your mailing list is power.

    I would imagine Trump could sell at least 10 million copies of whatever he wants, priced at $25 or higher. After costs, that’s maybe $18 per copy profit, so $180 million. And probably more, not including whatever he wants to upsell as part of the transaction. (MAGA hats, dildos, whatever)

  199. one of my happiest moments here at kb is to read jowles getting wiser by the day…

    as always, loved your story sir :)

    hope you and the missus are well and things are going smooth with the new gig…

  200. Orlando is starting Cole Anthony backed up by a two-way player named Bone, maybe Rose can move DSJ for a 2nd and clear a roster spot.

  201. geo: hope you and the missus are well and things are going smooth with the new gig…

    u da man geo

  202. It’s hilarious that some people think Donald Trump’s next move is in any way carefully planned. He is exactly what he seems like: a sad, angry old man who reacts to what reactionary media tells him. The problem is, unlike your racist uncle, for the next two weeks those reactions can wield the power of the American presidency.

    Maybe he’s had some fleeting thoughts about writing a book or something, but right now his attention is fully and genuinely devoted to the idea that there was massive “election fraud” in several states.

    I understand the instinct to think there’s something more to it than this but the past few years have made it clear there really isn’t. He’s passed on multiple opportunities to do things that would be politically beneficial for him in favor of things an angry racist riled up about what he saw on Fox News and OANN would do.

    I don’t think it makes him any less dangerous–if anything, I’d say it heightens the urgency with which we need to remove him from office. The man truly does not think about anything other than his most base instinct at any given time. It’s horrifying to have someone like that in office, and we got a glimpse of why yesterday when, just to take one example, he simply could not bring himself to unambiguously condemn what essentially amounted to a hostage situation.

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