Tonight’s 4 Factors (vs PHI, 12/8/07)

After each game this season, we’ll be taking a look at what the four factors have to say about the game– how the winner won and the loser lost. For an intro to the four factors, see A Layman’s Guide to Advanced NBA Statistics.

Knicks lose to Sixers, 105 – 77

	Pace	Eff	eFG	FT/FG	OREB%	TOr
PHI	91.0	115.4	57.4%	14.8	42.4	17.6
NYK		84.6	39.3%	31.4	19.5	19.8

Unfortunately I find myself agreeing with Mike Breen’s assessment. It’s worse to get blown out by 28 points at home by one of the league’s worst, than to get blown out by 45 on the road by one of the league’s best. This one is more embarrassing and hurts more, if that’s even possible.

Philly, one of the league’s worst offenses, scored at will on the Knicks. Especially in the 3rd and 4th quarters, unleashing a prolonged flurry of dunks and 3 pointers. Even so, they scored only marginally more efficiently than they did last night (112.2 points per 100 possessions) when the Knicks only lost by 10. Appearances to the contrary, the Knicks were so much worse off in this game than they were last night because of another atrocious offensive output. Last night they managed to score at a clip of 100 points per 100 possessions. That’s already a bad number, but tonight it dipped in a big way to an unconscionable 84.6.

The Sixers once again completely shut down Randolph and Curry (8 points combined). The starting guards had another off night (12 points combined). And Quentin Richardson continued his season long drought (5 points). Collectively, the starters combined to score at an average clip of 8.3 points per 40 each. If not for Nate Robinson’s 25 points, the offensive output tonight would have rivaled what New York put up in Boston. For a team built around the offensive talent of its starters, these recurring no-shows on offense are particularly devastating. Things cannot go on like this– something is going to need to change, one way or another.

4 factor stats were acquired using the ESPN4Factors script by Cherokee of the ABPRmetrics board. Firefox users can use this script (after installing the Greasemonkey extension) to see 4 factor stats automatically displayed in all NBA boxscores on

Liked it? Take a second to support Tom V. on Patreon!

32 thoughts to “Tonight’s 4 Factors (vs PHI, 12/8/07)”

  1. We gave a clinic in transition defense tonight. Remarkable. It should be studied around the NBA and down to peewee leagues.

  2. If you don’t set a baseline standard for what you’ll accept in life, you’ll find it’s easy to slip into behaviors and attitudes or a quality of life that’s far below what you deserve.

  3. this team is awesome and I can’t wait until they are in the championship and kicking some major butt in June. This sixer team just got so frickin lucky that it was ridiculous. I mean come on. THe sixers. The knicks are the best team ever to exist. Go knicks. hip hip hurray.

  4. the only thing impressive about the knicks this year is the ways they find to suck as much as they do. Al Trautwig is turning in to Bob Ueker in Major League. He made a comment tonight that Dolan should get up and boo. Highlight of the game.

  5. As long as Isiah justifies Jared Jeffries, we all win. Is comedy measured by the ESPN4Factors?

  6. Al Trautwig was right on when he said the fans were getting so sick of it they didn’t even have the energy left to boo.

    Hopefully, the end of the Isiah era is near. Marbury, Curry, Randolph, Jeffries,James=50 million dollars a year wasted. This mess is going to take a very long time to clean up.

  7. I think if they continue to play like this, they’re gonna beat the record larry brown set here two seasons ago.
    Some things really have got to change quickly.
    I think firing Isiah is not gonna do that much, some players have got to go too, ‘star’ players.

  8. I’m glad we’re actually bottoming out rather than just playing mediocre ball. At least it’ll force the necessary changes we all know are necessary and the new GM will inherit a top draft pick.
    Derrick Rose!
    Btw, for those readers of True Hoop, Derrick Rose is another William Wesley “nephew”.. just like King James. Maybe if we draft Rose, it’ll increase our odds of landing James in 2010?
    Also, as Greg Anthony noted, Balkman and Collins are clients of Leon Rose, who is also James’ agent.
    Come on people! Who’s with me?

  9. Not sold on Rose as or yet. Averaging 3.1 turnovers in 26 minutes….

    But I saw him in a few high school gamss, he looked awesome.

    Still, one would think it might be time to draft on the defensive side of the ball…

  10. Sadly, I don’t see this getting better even though we are “bottoming out.” Dolan, for some irrational reason, is blindly committed to Isiah and simply won’t fire him. Unless Stern somehow figures out a way to force out Dolan — and I don’t know how he’d do that unless he has some commissioner’s powers I don’t know about — things are going to be like this for a while. Jim Dolan is simply a disgrace of an owner, in every possible way. This is basically Steinbrenner, circa 1980’s. Unless and until he decides to put good basketball people in charge of the organization, the fact that we have all the financial resources in the world won’t make a difference.

  11. It’s funny to see, as the season progress, our indignation against such a horrible management and team chemistry giving place to sarcasm and lil’ jokes. I’m doing that too… it’s like: well since we are the joke of the league, we might as well join the laughter.
    My only desire is to snatch a top pick in next year draft and to see ourselves free of Marbury, Curry, et all…

  12. This is really painful to watch. I wait so long for basketball season to begin and this is what my team delivers. Its so disappointing. As far as losing to win a lottery pick, dont we still owe a pick to the Jazz for some trade in the past? I know there will be some electric point guards coming out in the draft this year if we continue to play like this we might just get one of them.

  13. Yeah, this isn’t even one of those “fun” bad teams to watch.

    We don’t even have the craziness of the terrible Larry Brown season or the “well, at least they are getting better!” optimism of last year.

    This team has less promise than the Shandon Anderson/Howard Eisley team, and is, somehow, less fun to watch (and that team was not fun to watch at all).

  14. Right now there are only two players I like at the roster: Lee and Balkman. That said, I fully know they are at best role players. See the extension of my pain?

  15. Does anyone have an explanation as to why Curry has regressed so badly from last year? Don’t forget, there was a period last year where he was dominating offensively and was even being talked about as an All Star. I know he’s never rebounded or played D, but now he can’t even score. Having Randolph is a factor, but my theory is that other teams (with better coaches) have adjusted and know how to frustrate him with doubles and fronting. And the Knicks (and Curry) have no idea how to deal with it. Of all the disappointments this season, I think Curry’s horrible performances have been the biggest. He was supposed to be what we built our franchise around.

  16. “This team has less promise than the Shandon Anderson/Howard Eisley team”

    now this is going too far, come on.

    I don’t think Curry’s regressed, I think he’s actually playing better D and rebounding better. he’s just not getting the ball pounded into him as much on offense, so his numbers are down.

  17. Sorry for being unclear, Jon.

    Obviously this team has more talent than that team. That team, though, seemed poised to bottom out, allowing the Knicks to improve through the draft and free agency, so we, as fans, could at least say, “Okay, they suck, but there is a promise of them getting better.”

    I don’t see that with this team. They’re too good to bottom out and too bad for the team, as constituted, to improve much.

  18. “This is basically Steinbrenner, circa 1980?s.”

    I hope that was just an accident you’re not really comparing George Steinbrenner to James Dolan.

  19. this team has been pretty much unwatchable for a few years now. to me some things just don’t add up here after this loss and just wondering if this organization has been playing for ping pong balls since the get go.
    How else can you explain:
    1)Pairing two of the top 3 turnover leaders last year as starters (Zach or Curry could easily come off the bench)
    2)starting 2 two guards and requesting one of them to be a consistent pt guard.
    3) not starting Lee at the PF. his defense, hustle and rebounding is a must when zack or curry are on the floor.
    4)not starting Balkman or giving him more minutes at the 3 (SF), Q isn’t giving you an O anyway and Balkman’s a better defender and the future.
    5) not playing Morris or Chandler although there have been numerous opportunities to see if they CAN improve on the play of the starters. (which right now is not that hard to do).
    Anyway, I’m not sold on Rose yet, I saw him last year, but if he was there with the pick I would have to take him based on his talent, our needs and although his t/o to assist may be high I think without question he makes other players around him better.

  20. ?This team has less promise than the Shandon Anderson/Howard Eisley team?

    That team at least carried the promise that, with patience, they could be competitive in five years…

  21. That team at least carried the promise that, with patience, they could be competitive in five years?

    Yeah, that’s my stance exactly.

    But I can see Jon’s point against – as that team DID have a whole ton of bad contracts, as well.

  22. “But I can see Jon?s point against – as that team DID have a whole ton of bad contracts, as well.”

    But Isiah came in knowing that was the case, and promised to rectify it, but instead made it WORSE. It’s no feather in Isiah’s cap that the team he inherited was equally bad.

  23. I was at a Christmas Party in a catering Sports Bar that had the 76ers vs Knicks game on their Televisions.

    How come no one is talking about the Knicks 3rd Qtr. of that Knicks vs 76ers game where all the Knick Starters except Curry 3 points were the only Knick Starter to score in the 3rd Qtr. (Isn’t Curry, Zach, Q.Rich, Crawford, and Marbury all Offensive Players yet the Starters only took 8 FG shots in the 3rd Qrt.).
    If it was’nt for Nate Robinson 11 points, Jones 4 points, and Lee’s 2 points it would have been obvious as a Duck Quack that the Knicks Starters are PROTESTING the playingtime of Marbury (STRIKE!)…

    P.S. Isiah Thomas “SAVE-FACE” Coaching style is finally Ticking off alot of Knick-Fans now, well your late, because it been Ticking off the Knick Players since last season this time…

  24. Isiah Thomas is a FOOL for not forcing Marbury on a Bereavement Leave.
    Untill after All-Star Weekend

    Honestly with all that has gone this year, starting with the Isiah trial where he was directly involved, then the drama with his “leaving” the team and now his father passing away during a game, I really think he does need time away to gather himself and figure out what he wants to do.
    The death of Marbury Pops was the best of reasons to seperate the Knick-Team and Marbury from the fiasco of the plane incident that still lies up in the air.
    The Isiah & Marbury Tandem has been BAD from the Start of their relationship in the 2003-4 season concerning the rest of this Knick-Team (players & staff). Seperation is Needed.

  25. But Isiah came in knowing that was the case, and promised to rectify it, but instead made it WORSE. It?s no feather in Isiah?s cap that the team he inherited was equally bad.

    Sure, but Jon’s point was that whoever followed Layden, even if he didn’t sign a single player and just let everyone’s contracts expire, would still have a lot of bad contracts to deal with, so it wasn’t as promising as “Oh, if we just suck for a couple of years, we’ll be able to get cap relief.”

  26. Isiah Thomas is a FOOL for not forcing Marbury on a Bereavement Leave.

    Yeah, everything else apart from this – this one really does make sense.

    Like Marbury or hate Marbury, he’s clearly not the same player since his dad died. And, I mean, come on, he buried his dad, what, three days ago?!!?

    What is he doing back at work?

Comments are closed.