Celtics Game, A Reason Against Trading For Carmelo

If you’re a Knicks fan, you’d have to be in a coma to avoid the talk about Carmelo Anthony. Knicker-backers wonder if their team has enough chips to trade for Carmelo and seemingly obsess over every rumor. This talk obscures the point of whether the Knicks should trade for Carmelo this year. And I think this most recent game against the Celtics game answered that question.

Trading for Carmelo Anthony, instead of waiting for him to become a free agent, means the Knicks would trade away some assets to get him. One rumor had New York offering Danilo Gallinari, Landry Fields, and more (a first round pick that New York would have to trade for), in a Carmelo swap. I’m not stubborn enough to think that Gallo or Fields should stand in the way of getting an “elite” or “top 10” player, as Carmelo has been called. But let’s be frank, Anthony is not in that group. There’s no measure that puts him in the top 10, and there’s no rational argument to show that right now he’s better than LeBron, Wade, Dirk, Paul, Durant, Howard, Garnett, Duncan, Kobe, or Nash. With Amar’e on the team, Carmelo Anthony wouldn’t even be the best player on the Knicks. Even Hollinger’s PER, which overrates volume scorers like Carmelo, has him ranked 22nd, between Paul Millsap and David West.

Against Boston, the best defense in the league, New York’s offense was roaring with a robust 58.6% eFG. The Knicks didn’t need scoring, they needed depth and defense. Only three players came off the bench for New York that night, and all three had negative +/- for the game. The Knicks lead seemed to shrink each time Ronny Turiaf (-11), Toney Douglas (-9), and Shawne Williams (-3) entered the game. Additionally they let the Celtics shoot a healthy 56.4% eFG, higher than their yearly average.

Trading multiple players, including two starters, for Carmelo Anthony doesn’t seem to address these weaknesses. In fact you could argue that making such a deal now, instead of waiting for free agency, would exacerbate them. The Knicks have the fourth best offense and the ninth worst defense. Perhaps getting a few bench players that could help solidify their defense, and letting this exciting team run its course this year is the better option.

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Mike Kurylo

Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

96 thoughts to “Celtics Game, A Reason Against Trading For Carmelo”

  1. Story on ESPN now that the Bobcats are shopping Wallace AND Jackson. While I’d prefer Wallace — his D, effectiveness in transition, and experience playing with Ray could be huge boons — I’m thinking either would be a strong addition. We could give up maybe Randolph, Curry’s expiring, and…. what else? That franchise is in full-on panic mode, so we could get a good deal.

    Can you imagine Gerald Wallace in this system night in and night out? I think he could be a monster.

  2. Gerald Wallace is another story. As far as I know he is a solid wing defender which would come in handy. The problem, such as it is, is that the 3 is the one position the Knicks are stacked at Gallo, WC and Fields all are more or less 3s.

  3. Clearly DW made an enormous mistake with mozgov; more,despite how good the lee-trade seemed in summer, AR is a non factor and buike is far from contributing.
    Another time DW revealed himself as a GM that makes too many mistakes to build a title contender team. Actually, the bench is non existent and the team is desperate at 5 position. I wonder what’s going to happen if players like felton or will just come back on earth? With celtics we have already seen fields producing only 6 points and we lost. The team has won all these games just because felton will and fields played beyond their limits. I’m negative? No, i’m simply trying to find a way to be a title contender but thanks to DW it does not seem possible.
    So why not? Trade two of the trio will gallo and fields for melo and try to find all the others pieces recurring to all subterfugies like miami is doing.
    The second possibility is to continue with this team and spend the money for a center and deeper bench, but how can be sure to relie on a GM that draft a donky like hill instead of a much much needing pg? How can you trust a man who give 3 mil to an ubsolutely unknown russian like mozgov?
    I am pessimist, totally,
    i simply think that knicks are worse than they now appear.

  4. “Seems even JVG doesn’t really know what to do.”

    I watched the ESPN coverage of the Celtics game, and JVG was 100% for trading for Melo, no matter what it would cost. Literally, I think he even joked that you trade the entire franchise if you have to, to get Melo.

    And now he questions what they’d have to give up? I guess that was just his TV personality talking on ESPN, where he is probably paid extra to over-hype any potential trade rumor.

  5. Jimmy C: Story on ESPN now that the Bobcats are shopping Wallace AND Jackson. While I’d prefer Wallace — his D, effectiveness in transition, and experience playing with Ray could be huge boons — I’m thinking either would be a strong addition. We could give up maybe Randolph, Curry’s expiring, and…. what else? That franchise is in full-on panic mode, so we could get a good deal.
    Can you imagine Gerald Wallace in this system night in and night out? I think he could be a monster.  

    I wouldn’t touch Jackson, I think he’s an incredible player but he’s poisonous.

    Wallace could be nice, but he absolutely can’t shoot and that might be a problem with D’Antoni… I’d love it if a reasonable trade could be made, but the Bobcats perceive him as a star and will ask for proper compensation, which is more than he deserves imo.

    I still think that we gotta wait it out.

    if a trade for Carmelo comes up for AR and Curry, do it, otherwise wait until free agency if he really wants to come.

  6. Mike K.:
    We have never been more sympatico.
    I’ve been saying this for a bit. I think if you could add him via FA, then it might be good. I think his efficiency would improve playing with a beast like Amare.
    But that is a bit of a risk. He may be taking too many, and bad shots because he’s required to do so on his team. But he may be doing that because his ego makes him believe he is better than he is.
    I sometimes feel he’s a glorified Al Harrington.
    I know that’s a slight, but it occurred to me a few times watching him play.

  7. MIke, Agree completely…I think you can make a solid argument that the K’s starting 5 is better than both the C’s and the Heat when factoring age, time together and $$$ going forward. Re the bench issue, I think MDA has stuck with his starters to instill the “winning” attitude which preceeds building a rotation. Starting with Cle, I think a second team of TD, SW, BW, TM and AR, would make sense starting with about 2 mins to go in the first qtr.and maybe 3 more into the second and repeat that in the 3rd qtr.The attitude is now here, work on the rotations. Respectfully.

  8. totti: Clearly DW made an enormous mistake with mozgov;
    Another time DW revealed himself as a GM that makes too many mistakes to build a title contender team. but how can be sure to relie on a GM that draft a donky like hill instead of a much much needing pg? How can you trust a man who give 3 mil to an ubsolutely unknown russian like mozgov?
    I am pessimist, totally,
    i simply think that knicks are worse than they now appear.  

    Dude, really? Are you fucking kidding me? No offense dude but you are pretty far off the mark with regards to DW. Dude hits a homerun with not only Amar’e (who NOBODY THOUGHT WAS WORTH MAX), but also picked up Felton whose been super for dirt cheap, and pulled a starter out of the 39th pick. That’s 3 homeruns right there. Turiaf was stellar early on, but right now I think they are trying to figure out how to use him better because when he got hurt, they found a starting lineup that just clicked much better. Azu, you can’t say anything about him because I highly suspect they are holding him out purposely because in 3 weeks insurance will pay his salary for the year. Azu may end up being a good player for us. AR, ok maybe this guy doesn’t end up being a guy for us, but he will end up getting us a draft pick at the minimum.

    And back to Moz…dude he’s a rookie. A ROOOOOOKIIIIIIEEEE. He does have skill but he’s raw, and he doesn’t speak english well yet. Not sure what you expected would happen here. But the success of this team right now is all because of DW. The bench is poor right now because TD/Bill walker have lost their way. Shawne Williams has shown brief glimpses that he can be the guy, but he’s only getting like 3 minutes so it’s not enough. I’m going to continue this.

  9. I think one of the easier things to do would be for Mike to change up his substitution patterns. He’s pulling Ray and Stat off at the same time and I think it’s hurting them. I think if he tried getting Ray first and giving TD a look with the other 4 starters. He could bring Shawne Williams in at the same time for Fields/Gallo/ or chandler. Give them a min or two then bring Turiaf for stat. Subbing this way should allow Raymond to come back around a min or so after Stat leaves and not leave them so vulnerable.

    I think that one of the reasons they are struggling on the second unit is because now that Chandler is not on that unit they really don’t have a primary scorer for that unit, so instead of bringing them as a unit, they have to insert them individually so that they have some better options.

    idk how viable that is but I think it could be tested.

  10. Two starters is too much, but I’d do it for one.

    Amar’e on Chris Bosh: “I’ve been in a winning situation my whole career….It’s been somewhat opposite for Chris.”

    Despite the questions about his fit and efficiency, Carmelo has also always been in “a winning situation,” and wins are still the most important statistic. Comparing him to Al Harrington is wildly unfair.
    But like most of you, I’m torn. I love watching this current team and I see, too, that our real needs are at the 5 and the 1.

    But, Totti, you must be joking. AR, Moz, and Buike are not contributing now, but I think one or two of them will emerge in time. And even if they don’t, it’s pretty darn uncharitable to suggest that DW has failed here. Where are these miraculous GM’s who never make mistakes?

    Quote source:

    http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/70620/20101216/amare_was_surprised_bosh_got_more_attention_as_free_agent/

  11. Spree8nyk8: I think one of the easier things to do would be for Mike to change up his substitution patterns. He’s pulling Ray and Stat off at the same time and I think it’s hurting them. I think if he tried getting Ray first and giving TD a look with the other 4 starters. He could bring Shawne Williams in at the same time for Fields/Gallo/ or chandler. Give them a min or two then bring Turiaf for stat. Subbing this way should allow Raymond to come back around a min or so after Stat leaves and not leave them so vulnerable. I think that one of the reasons they are struggling on the second unit is because now that Chandler is not on that unit they really don’t have a primary scorer for that unit, so instead of bringing them as a unit, they have to insert them individually so that they have some better options.idk how viable that is but I think it could be tested.  (Quote)

    I agree with what you say. One thing you brought up makes me wonrder whether Chandler’s recent efficiency is directly related to his not being on the second unit and feeling the need to be the primary scorer. I seem to recall when he was still on the bench a lot of groaning in the game threads at his shot selection, along with the gripes about TD and the lack of ball movement, one pass and done kinda stuff.

  12. I just really don’t see how they would expect a lineup of Turiaf, TD, Williams, and INSERT TWO NAMES HERE (that aren’t felton/STAT) to NOT surrender leads. Turiaf was effective initially because he was with the other 4 starters and could just play off the ball. On the second unit he’s constantly getting the ball at the ft area and looking like “what are you giving me this for?” He does however do much better when he is in with Felton and STAT. Moz could probably do similar things there too. I really hope they don’t give up on him so quick. He’s had some nerves issues. I think he’ll work those out.

  13. Walsh has done a very good job as Knicks GM. Not a spectacular job, because he signed Felton to a short contract not anticipating he would be this good (otherwise the contract would have been very different) and clearly missed the boat with Jordan Hill and the subsequent trade with Houston and the sign-and-trade of David lee (Azu, Turiaf & Randolph are not looking very pretty these days). So, I’d say Walsh has done a very solid job of repairing a lot of the damage he found when hired to clean Isiah’s mess.

    I haven’t given up on Mozgov or Randolph (in ispite of his bad performances). In fact, I think those two guys could become the missing big defensive presence in a year or two – but it will take a commitment and desire that D’Antoni doesn’t have in him. And that’s a REAL problem: D’Antoni does not believe in defense and feels that the solution to all defensive issues is to score some more. He said it after the Celtics loss, when asked if he felt there were defensive issues that needed to be addressed.

  14. If I were ranking needs, I would say a big would be first (prob. off the bench, but someone who can match up with the centers in the league but still play SSOL), a scoring guard off the bench, and then maybe a wing defender, 3ball guy. Were I GM, the guys I would be looking at would be Will Bynum (isn’t playing, could spell Felton and get baskets, play the Barbosa to Felton’s Nash), Varejao (we would have to give up a lot to get him tho) and Okur (he no longer fits that jazz team and they are in salary tax land and probably want to cut salary). Wing guys like Jackson or Wallace, or even Prince would be nice, but a luxury.

  15. Another thing I was thinking about is that we constantly hear that our biggest needs are backup pg and a solid 5.

    Backup pg I agree with 100%

    But solid 5?

    Who exactly are you going to sit when you put this five in? Because the starters click the way they do because you have Chandler starting now. We HAD a 5 in the starting lineup, we had Moz in there, and then we had Turiaf in there, and it ended up being that we were more effective putting Amar’e at the 5 and inserting chandler. Now before we did this, our bench was not really harped on all that much. Our bench actually did pretty well. So do you think maybe we need to get another scorer to take Chandler’s bench role? I think backup pg and a bench scorer would be more effective than getting a banger that won’t even start. A bench banger is stupid because our bench already can’t score. Maybe Gerald Wallace coming in and moving Chandler back to sixth man would do it. Not sure just tossing around ideas.

  16. totti – you’re out of your mind. Seriously. As Spree points out, guy drafts a starter from the second round (probably second-best rookie), guy signs STAT, guy gets Felton at a cheapo two-year deal that conserves cap space in case Deron or CP3 become available…and you have an issue with signing a guy for $3 mil a year, only two years guaranteed, at a position we had no depth? Seriously.

    Mozgov may still end up being a good player – a quarter of his rookie year isn’t enough to tell. But even if not, there is no risk! $3 mil. 2 years. Come on, that’s a great GM.

    Or did you love the days when Isaiah would sign Jerome James to sit on the bench for $6 mil per for four years???

  17. Hey, Spree, relax, brother.

    You’re not making much sense. It’s pretty clear the Knicks need a defensive presence in the paint. They don’t have that guy on the team right now. It’s not an easy problem to solve because there are not many quality centers around, but the Knicks still need their quality center.

    That’s all.

  18. Abasi: Walsh has done a very good job as Knicks GM. Not a spectacular job, because he signed Felton to a short contract not anticipating he would be this good (otherwise the contract would have been very different) and clearly missed the boat with Jordan Hill and the subsequent trade with Houston and the sign-and-trade of David lee (Azu, Turiaf & Randolph are not looking very pretty these days). I haven’t given up on Mozgov or Randolph (in ispite of his bad performances). In fact, I think those two guys could become the missing big defensive presence in a year or two – but it will take a commitment and desire that D’Antoni doesn’t have in him. And that’s a REAL problem: D’Antoni does not believe in defense and feels that the solution to all defensive issues is to score some more. He said it after the Celtics loss, when asked if he felt there were defensive issues that needed to be addressed.  

    Man, you’re missing the idea here: he signed Felton, a guy who many here didn’t want at all despite our lack of a PG, to a two year deal (with a team option for a third, by the way) because in two years CP3 and Deron Williams become available. Great contract, brilliant move. If in three years (assuming we don’t get Deron and pick up Felton’s option) we still think he’s great, we’ll resign him. Another fantastic move from Donnie.

    As for the GW trade, we got something for nothing, because we weren’t keeping Lee. Literally, something for nothing. Rather than sign third-tier FAs, Donnie traded a guy we weren’t going to keep for roster depth and a potential star in AR. Another amazing move, especially because they each are either expiring or on highly tradeable contracts.

    As for D’Antoni not being interested in D, don’t fool yourself: he makes the best of the players he has. If he had a beast in the middle, you can be sure he’d play…

  19. Yes, the offense was “roaring” but we did take a lot of jumpers. There were several occasions when we needed a bucket, it came in the form of a 3-pointer.
    Needless to say that the offense isn’t going to be as good as it was against Boston. When that happens, defense needs to be better to keep us in the game and we need people that can take it to the rim. Although Gallo did that in this game, he doesn’t always do that, in which case we have to rely on Stat and Chandler.

    Which then brings up the problem with Stat’s playing time. If we had Melo we could get him some rest once in a while. As you could see in the Boston game, the minute Stat was out of the game, production stopped and Boston got back in the game.

    You know, at this point, I think that both could work, either with Melo or with the current players plus some reinforcements. I think Donnie just needs to make up his mind and then commit to that decision.

    Looking forward to beating the Heat tonight.

  20. …Rony was a starter despite being extremely limited offensively. So clearly D’Antoni can indeed change his style to suit his players. All he means by offense if that if you score more points than the other team, your defense was good. And that’s pretty damn obvious.

  21. Amen to Mike’s article.

    Peeps need to cool down on the Donnie debate. He had a great offseason — could be exec of the year if not for the Heat situation working out. The Lee trade doesn’t look awesome at the moment, but at least we didn’t take on any major contracts!

    What will really tell the story is what Donnie does with Eddy’s expiring contract.

    I think it’s unlikely he’ll break up a team playing so well for a guy he can sign in the offseason. The hyperventilating media machine that wants the “superstar” traded isn’t even considering *what else* the Knicks might get with their current set of assets. You can look at the Knick BENCH and see a handful of guys that actually hold value due to expirings (Curry, Azu) or potential (AR, Moz).

    I’d like to see more analysis on what other deals could be out there. Especially now that 12/15 has passed and you can trade guys you signed in the offseason, there are a lot of possibilities.

  22. Rama: no need to exaggerate Walsh’s accomplishments as Knicks GM. I already stated that he has done a very good job.
    And, no, D’antoni does not play much defense. That’s why every night, somebody has a career game against the Knicks and that’s why every player in D’antoni’s system scores more that he would in any other system: they are only concerned with scoring. The system is predicated on trading bombs, literally. I personally feel it is exciting, but not sound. Hope i’m wrong, honestly! I’d love nothing more than a successful and exciting Knicks team. So far they are only exciting, but I’m optimistic :-)

  23. well, I’d like to disagree with pretty much everyone including Mike. this is where this kind of analysis falls short IMO.

    as I said in the game thread. if NY has Melo in that game, it’s quite possible that Pierce is in foul trouble all game and isn’t able to put up anywhere near 32 points, and NY wins fairly easily. basketball is a much more complex game than most people seem to take into account a lot of the time. also, if we’re specifically talking about matching up with Boston, once they get Perkins and Shaq back, Amare is going to have a lot more trouble going off like that.

    anyway, onto Miami. today is “Underdog Day”, that should help us tonight.

    http://www.helium.com/items/1834818-celebration-days-underdog-day-harry-truman-susan-boyle-the-underdogs-bandbroccoli-party-ideas

  24. Off topic (or at least off the endless mind-numbing topic of what might or might not happen with Melo), people might be interested in a new Knicks website, created by the Garden itself.

    Shockingly, they appear to have done a few things right.

    http://www.KnicksNow.com

  25. Has anyone considered that maybe Dantoni can’t really coach a team that has the types of players it takes to fix our defensive problems?

    I’m not saying he can’t, and I’m just putting it out there (not making an argument) because I don’t know enough about it, but I can’t really recall a Dantoni team that had great defense or rebounding.

    As far as I can tell, its very rare to get a player we need (a 7+ footer who can defend and rebound) who also is a very good shooter (which it looks like we need to make help for the PnR ineffective to space the floor). Those that can do all three are usually very expensive, and none are on the board right now.

    It seems to me that Dantoni’s teams have traditionally had high points-for and high points-allowed. Getting some of the pieces that people are talking about might make his offense more ineffective, but I’m not really sure. And I don’t even know if he can really coach defenders, because his players have said before he goes weeks in practice without mentioning defense.

    Hopefully he can, but I don’t think it’s a sure thing.

  26. @32

    that’s a fact, if you guys expect D’Antoni to focus on defense, you better hope he gets fired soon.

  27. I once again find myself agreeing with Abbey. There are a lot of factors that need to be taken into account concerning Melo. I just wish we could’ve gotten a swindle like the KG deal! Boston really got him for the pu pu platter of players – Telfair, Jefferson, Ratliff, Gerald Green… Gomes is probably the best of that group and he’s an average 6th man at best. Such a ridiculous steal… and to the hated Celtics…. something like that will never happen again.
    Anyway, yes it’s a painful choice because we would have to actually give up really good players in any trade. I would hope we could at least keep Gallo if a deal is done since he brings the outside shooting that we would need with a Melo/Amare forward tandem, positions be damned.
    Back to the Celts, they have 4 guys who can do basically whatever they want at their position on the court. If we add Melo, we’ll have 3 including Felton the way he’s playing, and then hope that maybe Gallo could be a 4th. I mean, just having 3 guys that could get to the line THAT much, maybe even more than Wade/LBJ/Bosh, that would be hard to turn away.
    Yes, we would be paper-thin, but Donnie’s good at digging deep for role players – probably better than Riley is…
    It really isn’t an obvious decision. And who knows? Maybe Melo would take an extension for less? He really doesn’t deserve Amar’e money…

  28. @32

    I know I’ll become the target of some fan bashing, but i must say it: I have a feeling the Knicks’ recent success is fool’s gold. My reasons:

    1. Amare will not be able to continue scoring 30 per night. Eventually, he will revert to his more natural – and still excellent – 22/game, approx.
    2. Felton will not sustain his current production, either.
    3. D’Antoni’s system is flawed – no need to rehash age-old arguments.
    4. The main reason everyone is so excited is because we are very thirsty for success after so many years of failure. That will change once we perceive the Knicks as a playoff-caliber team. You can see the rising expectations already, with the drive to sign Melo.

    I hope i’m wrong. The coming stretch – until the beginning of February – will show us a more realistic picture of what the team is capable of. I’m afraid that tiredness, injuries, D’Antoni’s system and a tougher schedule will bring the team back to earth.

    Solution? D’Antoni needs to become far more fexible and realistic in his approach to the game. The team’s future depends on it.

    There. I said it.

  29. Everybody seems to want a defensive C– I agree that our interior defense is very weak. Our rebounding could certainly use a shot in the arm too. But finding the kind of defensive frontcourt player who could fit on this team is a challenge.

    For starters, good defensive centers are in short supply. Secondly, many players we think of as good defensive centers also happen to be bad offensive players. It is clear that D’Antoni is not going to give major burn to a player who does not contribute on offense. Thirdly, there are other centers who are good two-way players but don’t run the floor well, so you kind of have to rule those guys out too.

    Ideally we would want a Marcus Camby prototype in there at C– a quick, athletic leaper who can clean the glass, run the floor, harass opposing Cs and PFs and block some shots without being a black hole on the offensive end. Obviously that’s what Walsh was thinking by bringing in Anthony Randolph, but Randolph is utterly clueless about how to play the game of basketball despite 2 1/4 years of experience and is starting to look like a bust.

    If we’re going to win big with this system, we’re probably going to need to be the absolute #1 offense in the NBA. #4 is not going to cut it. I’m all for improving the defense, but it has to be with guys who can meet the demands of playing this fluid, up-tempo style of play that D’Antoni coaches.

  30. @35

    Boooo! Shun the nonbeliever!

    As for your points 1 and 2, I think you’re making a huge tiny mistake. If there’s anything I learned from following this blog over the past few years, it’s that basketball isn’t like baseball; it’s incredibly context-dependent. You can’t assume players will simply “regress to the mean” and revert back to their career averages, regardless of what system they play in.

    Felton isn’t shackled by Larry Brown’s slow-paced Charlotte offense and is finally playing in a running offense better suited for his talents. Amar’e is no longer just Steve Nash’s roll man. His usage has spiked and there’s not reason he can keep playing above his career average unless he suddenly forgets how to score in the paint.

  31. I’m fearing a blowout loss tonight. It would sure take the wind out of our sails if the Heat come in here and beat us by double digits. For the benefit of my fiancee and our two cats I think I’m gonna skip this one and catch the highlights on SportsCenter.

  32. Sorry to keep posting wildly speculative trade scenarios, but…. Broussard just put up a piece about Roy essentially demanding that either he or Miller be dealt. Roy’s still got the better part of 5 years and $83 million remaining, and given the state of his knees, it’s probably close to impossible that Portland can ship him out. But what about Miller? Again, I hate to keep suggesting the Knicks deal Randolph, because I do think his upside is significant, but given Camby’s age and Oden’s murkier-than-ever future, AR might be a good fit for that team.

    Apparently Roy doesn’t think Miller does a good enough job of spacing the floor, which could be a problem in SSOL. But who knows? I think he’s still got a few good years left in him, and while he’s certainly not a threat from beyond 18 feet, but he can drive and draw contact and he’s a decent distributor — someone who I think could work nicely with TD as a tandem.

  33. Doug: @35Boooo! Shun the nonbeliever!As for your points 1 and 2, I think you’re making a huge tiny mistake. If there’s anything I learned from following this blog over the past few years, it’s that basketball isn’t like baseball; it’s incredibly context-dependent. You can’t assume players will simply “regress to the mean” and revert back to their career averages, regardless of what system they play in.Felton isn’t shackled by Larry Brown’s slow-paced Charlotte offense and is finally playing in a running offense better suited for his talents. Amar’e is no longer just Steve Nash’s roll man. His usage has spiked and there’s not reason he can keep playing above his career average unless he suddenly forgets how to score in the paint.  

    Amar’e is the active career leader in TS%– his career TS% is .606 and this year he’s at .602. His eFG% is right at his career average. He’s having a typical Amar’e Stoudemire year. His PPG are up a bit because of higher usage and more minutes per game, but there’s no reason to think Amare’s production will fall off.

  34. Doug: @35Boooo! Shun the nonbeliever!As for your points 1 and 2, I think you’re making a huge tiny mistake. If there’s anything I learned from following this blog over the past few years, it’s that basketball isn’t like baseball; it’s incredibly context-dependent. You can’t assume players will simply “regress to the mean” and revert back to their career averages, regardless of what system they play in.

    Wish you were right, but they all revert back to the mean. That’s just a fact of life: Amare will NOT average 30 for the season. And Felton will be overplayed until he goes down. It’s part of the “system”, I’m afraid. But, once again, I hope i’m wrong!

  35. If Melo wanted to play in NY so much, why wouldn’t he just come out and say it boldly, instead of saying he has not made up his mind.

    1. the Knicks need a man that will relish fighting with Garnett or anyone else that enters his domain – the paint. The knicks lost that game on defense, under the basket.
    2. get a real back-up for Felton. TD sucks (as a PG or SG).

    If the knicks take their time to see if the current roster is really as good as they’ve been playing, their money can be more wisely spent by resolving weaknesses than getting by paying for a superstar. It’s been said over and over again -scoring points has not been the knicks problem.

  36. Abasi:
    Wish you were right, but they all revert back to the mean. That’s just a fact of life: Amare will NOTaverage 30 for the season. And Felton will be overplayed until he goes down. It’s part of the “system”, I’m afraid. But, once again, I hope i’m wrong!  

    I don’t think we want Amare to average 30 for the rest of the season. Him going off works fine against bad teams, but you need a balanced attack against the good teams. You need your #5 guy to be ready to step up and bury a jumper while using stat as a decoy. This is what separates great teams from good. As much as we slam Derek Fisher on here, how clutch was he in the playoffs?
    At least we have 5 above average starter for the first time since, um… jeez ’92? Maybe before then.

  37. Apparently Roy doesn’t think Miller does a good enough job of spacing the floor, which could be a problem in SSOL.

    I was at opening night at the Garden this year and I was shocked by how poorly Roy and Miller worked together. It worked because Miller just got really hot, but it was amazing to see two guards who clearly both only work when they have the ball in their hands – and they were in the same backcourt! I remember watching it thinking, “Man, Roy has got to be so pissed off right now.”

  38. One of the biggest problems with our roster right now is that we have virtually no ability to throw different looks at the opponent, either on offense or defense. D’Antoni has not been able to really exploit mismatches all that much. It’s pretty much “here’s our five guys, try to figure out a way to beat us.” Toney Douglas and Ronny Turiaf as the main bench guys don’t really do very much for our versatility, mainly because they simply aren’t all that good.

    Plain and simple, we need more guys who are good enough to get minutes.

  39. jon abbey: well, I’d like to disagree with pretty much everyone including Mike. this is where this kind of analysis falls short IMO.
    as I said in the game thread. if NY has Melo in that game, it’s quite possible that Pierce is in foul trouble all game and isn’t able to put up anywhere near 32 points, and NY wins fairly easily. basketball is a much more complex game than most people seem to take into account a lot of the time. also, if we’re specifically talking about matching up with Boston, once they get Perkins and Shaq back, Amare is going to have a lot more trouble going off like that.anyway, onto Miami. today is “Underdog Day”, that should help us tonight.http://www.helium.com/items/1834818-celebration-days-underdog-day-harry-truman-susan-boyle-the-underdogs-bandbroccoli-party-ideas  

    Exactly abbey.

    You can’t view points as interchangeable amongst players. How Carmelo scores his points and how the game changes simply as a result of his presence on the court is the key for the Knicks.

    Carmelo puts additional pressure on defenses and wears opponents down both physically and emotionally given the ease in which he scores. As JVG has said, he doesn’t need plays called for him so any nonsense that he’ll disrupt our offensive rhythm is just that. Finally, as much as I love our supporting cast, who do you want shooting the ball when the clock is ticking down in the 4th quarter when most NBA games are decided? Melo >>>> IllWill/Gallo/Fields.

    Watch some Nuggets games and then tell me that Duncan, Nash, Milsap, West, Garnett and even Paul is ‘better’ than Melo.

    Get Melo NOW if you want to contend!

  40. Frank O.:
    I sometimes feel he’s a glorified Al Harrington.
    I know that’s a slight, but it occurred to me a few times watching him play.  

    I agree 100%.

  41. Abasi: I haven’t given up on Mozgov or Randolph (in ispite of his bad performances). In fact, I think those two guys could become the missing big defensive presence in a year or two – but it will take a commitment and desire that D’Antoni doesn’t have in him. And that’s a REAL problem: D’Antoni does not believe in defense and feels that the solution to all defensive issues is to score some more. He said it after the Celtics loss, when asked if he felt there were defensive issues that needed to be addressed.

    I think saying D’Antoni doesn’t believe in defense is an incorrect statement. Anyone watch him coach will know that he goes absolutely berserk when a player misses an assignment. His teams have been about where you’d expect them to be defensively. Let’s be honest, he hasn’t exactly had great defenders during his tenure.

    Killing him for not playing Mozgov/Anthony is a bit extreme. They are shooting .646 … combined. Neither is above 40%. I don’t care if it’s Ben Wallace on Dwight Howard’s shoulders – no coach is going to play you if you can’t shoot above 40%. Well at least not this side of Larry Brown. And something tells me Knick fans will take that trade off.

  42. Mike,

    Thank you! Thank you so much for this. I wrote the same thing in the game thread after the loss. I looked at WS/48 as my determining factor. For Chris Paul, hell yes you give up the young cheap assest, but not for Anthony. Sign him in the off-season but do NOT sell the farm to get him.

    Did you ever run sim score on Anthony? I’ll check the archives, but I dont know if you have. But I look at Anthony and I see Dominique Wilkins. I would much rather have Paul, a deeper productive bench (our bench has been bad since Chandler moved to the starting rotation), and a defensive play that doesn’t cause a total offensive shut down like Turiaf did in the Celtic game.

    Did I thank you already? If not, thank you.

  43. Mike Kurylo:
    I think saying D’Antoni doesn’t believe in defense is an incorrect statement. Anyone watch him coach will know that he goes absolutely berserk when a player misses an assignment.

    I saw this in person on Wednesday night. After Pierce dropped that dagger with .4 remaining, D’Antoni was absolutely livid with Gallo, who I think in a perfect world would’ve been guarding Pierce on that play. So yes, I’m pretty sure defense matters to him, but probably not as much as making the opposition play the up-tempo, high-possession and high-scoring game that he prefers.

    In any case, I’m really surprised that this Melodrama is still dominating the discussion everywhere in Knicks-land. For the first time in years we have a team we can be proud of, and all anyone can talk about is a guy on the Nuggets. Let’s get back to talking about who we got, not we may or may not get!

  44. Brian Cronin: It worked because Miller just got really hot, but it was amazing to see two guards who clearly both only work when they have the ball in their hands – and they were in the same backcourt! I remember watching it thinking, “Man, Roy has got to be so pissed off right now.”

    What’s amazing about this is that when you see Roy in interviews, he seems like the most level-headed, non-confrontational character guy imaginable. And certainly not one to point fingers.

    If Portland gets far enough into panic mode, maybe we can strike a deal for Camby AND Miller — essentially killing two birds with one stone. Combining Curry’s expiring and AR would leave us probably too short, so we might have to get creative. But it seems like between the Bobcats and Blazers — two playoff teams from a year ago who are clearly on the downswing — there’s two teams with intriguing and potentially helpful assets that may be looking to sell short.

  45. I don’t see anyway Amar’e regresses back to 22ppg, I think he’ll stick around 26ppg honestly.

  46. Abasi:
    Wish you were right, but they all revert back to the mean. That’s just a fact of life: Amare will NOTaverage 30 for the season. And Felton will be overplayed until he goes down. It’s part of the “system”, I’m afraid. But, once again, I hope i’m wrong!  

    Amar’e actually *could* average 30 for the season, because as pointed out in this thread, he’s playing exactly as efficiently as he normally does, but with a higher usage rate. Don’t see why this is so shocking to people.

    The streak is irrelevant, what’s important is that he’s playing smart, efficient, effective basketball.

    I agree there is going to be some normalization of the Knicks’ play — because they are NEITHER a team that wins 30% of their games (as they did the first few weeks) NOR are they a team that wins 90% of their games (as they did recently). So, yes, some normalization will occur. I think they are a .600 team and will win 48-50 games this year, but we’ll know more after the next couple of weeks.

  47. Jimmy C:

    Story on ESPN now that the Bobcats are shopping Wallace AND Jackson. While I’d prefer Wallace — his D, effectiveness in transition, and experience playing with Ray could be huge boons — I’m thinking either would be a strong addition. We could give up maybe Randolph, Curry’s expiring, and…. what else? That franchise is in full-on panic mode, so we could get a good deal.

    Can you imagine Gerald Wallace in this system night in and night out? I think he could be a monster.  

    (Quote)

    Wallace could really shore up the bench. Love his defense and rebounding. And he can be an effective scorer, though his eFG% is way down this year. You could get him pretty cheaply. But I do not like the 22 million owed to him for the next two years. That make dumping Eddy Curry’s contract a push in terms of next 2011/12 cap and a 11 million hit in 2012/13. Turiaf, Walker, and Mason for Wallace and a future pick? Salary probably comes up short, trade machine is blocked at the office.

  48. D’Antoni cares about defense but there are tradeoffs to playing at the style he wants to play. By streching the floor on offense it means there is usually only one offensive player in the paint when a shot goes up instead of two like in most offenses. This is going to limit offensive rebound chances. The tradeoff is that by stretching the floor everyone shoots at a higher percentage. I think, as long as you have good shooters, its a good tradeoff. Also by shooting early in the shot clock you are able to catch the opposing defense out of position and get open looks, but it also means you are shooting before we have any offensive rebounders in position.

    On top of that by playing a stretch open system D’Antoni needs four shooters on the court at all times to keep defences honest. This way teams cannot sag to the middle and clog the paint. This almost always forces D’Antoni to play small.

    Also by running every chance we get we are going to allow the other team to run back at us . This will hurt our defense as well.

    Pheonix failed to win a champoinship not because D’Antoni’s system doesn’t win in the playoffs but because the Suns were less talented than the teams they lost to. Three of the suns four playoff losses under D’Antoni were against the Spurs, two of those Spur teams went on to win it all. The only other team he lost to was the Mavs who should have won it all. In a different system those Sun teams probably would have struggled to make the playoffs much less compete for championships.

    We don’t have the players to have a grind it out defensive team. D’Antoni’s system works. By playing his style he takes makes us a better offensive team and a worse defensive team. The question is would slowing it down and playing a more traditional style help our defense more than it would hurt our offense. I think slowing it down would make us worse.

  49. I had the opposite conclusion; it seems obvious that in order to get to the next level we need another player to close the deal… The question is whether or not to do it this season, not whether or not we need him!?!
    In a seven game series does anyone think that our present roster with a deeper bench wins more than one or two games against Boston?
    I don’t think so. The addition of another star makes us twice as dangerous as we are now.

  50. I’m sorry, but WS/48 is a BS stat. It is practically useless when it comes to comparing players.

    Any system that ranks Tyson Chandler as the #2 player in the NBA , has Al Horford ahead of LeBron James and ranks Shannon Brown ahead of Kevin Durant AND Russell Westbrook is useless. Useless!

    In the WS/48 world, it is virtually impossible to score well if you play on a bad or even mediocre team. Kevin Love– he’s a pretty good player, right? Who would you rather have, Kevin Love or James Jones from the Heat? Well, WS/48 would rather have James Jones, because WS/48 does not know that James Jones does nothing except camp out on the 3 point line and wait around to shoot completely uncontested jumpers.

    WS/48 will also tell you that Luol Deng and Kyle Korver are better than Blake Griffin and that Matt Bonner is as good as Amar’e Stoudemire. It’s a pretty meaningless stat unless you give it LOTS of context and consider its vast shortcomings.

  51. Mike, it’s not that MDA doesn’t teach nor appreciate good defense, it’s his defensive principles are weak…Dan is actually the defensive guru and he uses the same principles as he did in HS…I coached against him.The K’s essentially “switch all”, which worked in PHX, and works ok with the current K’s starting 5, because they’re of similiar size and Felton is strong defensively, however, it allows too frequent mismatches, there’s no need for Felton to ever double Garnett.If you noticed the other night Fields was on Rando, good move, but played”off” allowing the jump shot and the Fields “double”.The problem however, is that by not crowding RR and using the height advantage, RR is able to do what he does best…assist. MDA isn’t going to change this, which is why “true” centers don’t fit in his game and as Knicks fans, as long as he’s here, it is what it is.

  52. What’s amazing about this is that when you see Roy in interviews, he seems like the most level-headed, non-confrontational character guy imaginable. And certainly not one to point fingers.

    No doubt.

    Roy basically has Michael Jordan’s game. He’s a not-nearly-as-good Michael Jordan clone (which means he is still really, really good). And could you imagine Jordan playing on a team with a point guard who hogged the ball?

  53. Thomas B.: But I do not like the 22 million owed to him for the next two years. That make dumping Eddy Curry’s contract a push in terms of next 2011/12 cap and a 11 million hit in 2012/13. Turiaf, Walker, and Mason for Wallace and a future pick? Salary probably comes up short, trade machine is blocked at the office.

    They must know you really well to have blocked the trade machine at the office, LOL. You’re right though, that trade falls about $2.5 million short. What comes closer, however, is Curry’s expiring, Mason and Walker. At that point there’s $300,000 or so cash for the Bobcats to cover, so maybe a 2nd rounder? They might be desperate, but probably not THAT desperate.

  54. Mike, what the Celtics game told me was that we were unable to put away an undermanned Celtics team while our star played a near-perfect game.

    I can’t ignore the fact that I think Amar’e and Felton (and nearly every other player in the NBA) would jump at the chance to have Melo on their team, regardless of efficiency, etc. This league demands “alpha dogs,” I know that’s a simplistic notion and I know that it lacks sound statistical research, but the players know it, the coaches know it, and the refs (perhaps most important) know it. Melo knows the game, his style will adjust to our system (as it did for Team USA) and no, Jim Boeheim would not have an NCAA ring had Al Harrington been on his team rather than Melo. Again, could there be a better case study than Lee vs. Amar’e?

    And why does D’Antoni’s system still get hammered by fans who ignore the fact that the 90s Knicks’ defense-first team with a franchise center and favorable league rules are still waiting for their first championship parade? He has done an amazing job this year, the first real “team” he’s had in NY.

  55. Getting back to Gerald Wallace, is he getable without giving up AR. If we could get him for spare parts and expirings I would do it in a second. I would prefer him to almost any center in the game because he can defend and rebound in the post on defense while playing a perimeter role on offense. He would be perfect either replacing WC in the starting lineup making WC a 30 minutes a night sub or himself being a 30 minute a night sub playing the 3,4,and 5. I would possibly give up AR but I think in a couple years when Wallace is 30 and AR is 23 it will look pretty dumb, but it would help us alot now.

    I would almost rather have Wallace than Melo.

  56. Brian Cronin:
    No doubt.
    Roy basically has Michael Jordan’s game. He’s a not-nearly-as-good Michael Jordan clone (which means he is still really, really good). And could you imagine Jordan playing on a team with a point guard who hogged the ball?  

    Yeah, and Miller has always been a bad shooter so he is pretty much useless when Roy starts the offense.

    I too was surprised by the reports that Roy was freaking out, but he’s got reason to do it, the kind of injuries he’s had and just the overall frustration of not being able to do what came so easily for him before them… it’s bound to change a guy’s attitude, specially when you see that the team is not making the ideal moves to help you.

    Even Pippen, who was to some extent a supreme team player, freaked out when Kukoc stole his spotlight for a while when Jordan “retired”.

  57. Gerald Wallace is everything we wanted Jared Jeffries to be. He’s kinda perfect for this system.

  58. bugsy: Gerald Wallace is everything we wanted Jared Jeffries to be. He’s kinda perfect for this system.  

    but the problem is that Wallace is 6’7″, and even though he’s an excellent rebounder and defender, he couldn’t help us where we are worst, which is interior defense.

    I’d love to get Wallace, but he’s 28 already and the Cats view him as their francise player, they would ask for a lot more than what we’d want to give them.

  59. Ben R: Getting back to Gerald Wallace, is he getable without giving up AR. If we could get him for spare parts and expirings I would do it in a second.

    One trade that could work would be Curry’s expiring, Walker and Douglas for Wallace and Sherron Collins. Haven’t seen much of Collins except in the brief periods he played against the Knicks, so not sure whether he’d be any better as our backup PG. What’s weird is that Hollinger has this as a wash in terms of Ws / Ls for BOTH teams.

    With respect to Portland, you could also conceivably get Miller and Camby from Portland for Curry, Randolph, TD and Azu. Only problem is Hollinger gives the Knicks +7 wins and Portland -17. Again, you’d have to assume a Cuban Missile Crisis panic level for that deal to have a chance.

  60. Mike Kurylo: I think saying D’Antoni doesn’t believe in defense is an incorrect statement. Anyone watch him coach will know that he goes absolutely berserk when a player misses an assignment. His teams have been about where you’d expect them to be defensively. Let’s be honest, he hasn’t exactly had great defenders during his tenure. Killing him for not playing Mozgov/Anthony is a bit extreme. They are shooting .646 … combined. Neither is above 40%. I don’t care if it’s Ben Wallace on Dwight Howard’s shoulders – no coach is going to play you if you can’t shoot above 40%. Well at least not this side of Larry Brown. And something tells me Knick fans will take that trade off

    Two points:

    1. D’Antoni’s system is predicated on trading bombs with the other team – there is no secret. He figures that 35% scoring shooting 3’s is always better than 50% scoring shooting 2’s (105/100). That’s all there is to his philosophy.

    It doesn’t work like that in real life or in the long run, of course. But that’s what Dantoni believes. Floor spacing, player assignemtns, etc, etc. are the implementation details. But he believes that a great offensive production (in terms of points scored) always beats a more balanced approach. I have never seen it work and it probably doesn’t work and that’s the reason most great coaches never implemented the system. Yes, Abasi is a sucker and knows nothing about basketball. But why is it that Phil Jackson, Riley, Popovich, Adelman, Sloan, Brown, Wilkins and virtually every other coach out there doesn’t embrace the concept? Are they stupid?

    Nope. They know it’s fool’s gold and it requires a very specific cast, as we can see with the NY Knicks – I doubt Dwight Howard would make D’Antoni’s rotation.

    So, it is what it is. If we really believe D’Antoni’s path is correct, what the hell, just sign Carmelo and…

  61. 2. So, it is what it is. If we really believe D’Antoni’s path is correct, what the hell, just sign Carmelo annd enjoy the ride!!!!!

  62. Anybody see Nuggets/Spurs last night? Melo was pretty good down the stretch — would have had the game-winner at the buzzer if Ginobili hadn’t snuck in to take a charge.

    But forget about it, this team can already score.

    When life gives you melos, just say fuck the melos and bail.

  63. Mike Kurylo:
    I think saying D’Antoni doesn’t believe in defense is an incorrect statement. Anyone watch him coach will know that he goes absolutely berserk when a player misses an assignment. His teams have been about where you’d expect them to be defensively. Let’s be honest, he hasn’t exactly had great defenders during his tenure.
    Killing him for not playing Mozgov/Anthony is a bit extreme. They are shooting .646 … combined. Neither is above 40%. I don’t care if it’s Ben Wallace on Dwight Howard’s shoulders – no coach is going to play you if you can’t shoot above 40%. Well at least not this side of Larry Brown. And something tells me Knick fans will take that trade off.  

    I don’t know Mike, for one season he had Shawn Marion, Kurt Thomas, Boris Diaw, Raja Bell all playing a lot of minutes, and they won 61 games that season.

    Those guys aren’t Kevin Garnett-like defenders, but they’re pretty good, and that team as 13th in defensive rating.

    My view is that D’Antoni obviously knows that defense is important, he’s not an idiot, he just focuses more on building a team that attacks better than the opponent, and takes whatever his players can give him on defense.

    It’s nice that you bring Larry Brown, because if he coached that Suns team he’d be scolding Steve Nash because he plays no defense lol.

  64. Ehi, spree,
    calm down and relax!
    This team is playing beyond his limits in will and felton. Stat is playing as for a player paid 100 mil.
    If you want win a title, every move has to be a right one. If only a couple of your choices did not pay on the court, so then you won’t win.
    So calm down guys,
    and just admit that DW is simply not good enough to make of every move a right move.

    Why you americans don’t seem to realize that sports are just like the other branches of life: you don’t have to miss anything to achieve success. I mean, you teached all this to the rest of the world and now you forgot and tend to forgive the GM almost everything.
    To me DW was only good to save dolan’s money.
    I can already foresee many changes of opinions if the team begins to loose.
    I hope i’m wrong, i hope gallo stays in new york, i hope i hope………

  65. When life gives you melos

    The key word is “give.” We’re not talking about the Knicks being “given” something – they have to acquire it, for too much money and too many good players.

  66. I like Wallace but you’re not going to get him for spare parts- he’s their best player and there’s no way they’re just going to dump him without getting something they can sell to their fans as a good deal so figure one of Chandler, Fields, or Gallo + Curry- I’d probably do Chandler but as he’s a restricted free agent I’m not sure that the Bobcats would go for it.

    I do hope that before the Knicks make any deal that AR gets a second chance to earn some minutes- even in his limited minutes his shot-blocking and rebounding have been solid. He’s been spectacularly bad on offense but if they can figure out a way to hide him just a little bit on O, he could really help the team.

  67. totti: Ehi, spree,
    calm down and relax!
    This team is playing beyond his limits in will and felton. Stat is playing as for a player paid 100 mil.
    If you want win a title, every move has to be a right one. If only a couple of your choices did not pay on the court, so then you won’t win.
    So calm down guys,
    and just admit that DW is simply not good enoughto make of every move a right move.Why you americans don’t seem to realize that sports are just like the other branches of life: you don’t have to miss anything to achieve success. I mean, you teached all this to the rest of the world and now you forgot and tend to forgive the GM almost everything.
    To me DW was only good to save dolan’s money.
    I can already foresee many changes of opinions if the team begins to loose.
    I hope i’m wrong, i hope gallo stays in new york, i hope i hope………  

    Ummm can you point out any gm that makes every right choice? It’s sports for god’s sake and not every player blossoms into what they can be or should be, and some become better than expected. So saying a gm has to be correct on 100% of his decisions is a bit absurd. It’s actually probably the most ridiculous statement I’ve read on this forum and i’m going to stop responding to this right here

  68. Ummm can you point out any gm that makes every right choice? It’s sports for god’s sake and not every player blossoms into what they can be or should be, and some become better than expected.

    You are right, of course

    So saying a gm has to be correct on 100% of his decisions is a bit absurd

    No, it’s not absurd. All the GM’s in their title winning seasons made everything right and, still, they probably needed some luck and some good refs!

    Ciao, Spree, and hope we will see stat running in circle at the end of the game,
    and lebron leaving the court with a sad face
    and rupaul bosh wiped away

  69. I dont buy the “Anthony could foul Pierce out” argument. Pierce only picks up 2.9 fouls per 36. He has fouled out of 0 games this year and only picked up five fouls 5 times. Anthony didnt foul Pierce out when they played earlier this season (3 fouls).

    I’d rather put a player in that is gives you offense on par with Fields (not much but does not get in the way ala Turiaf and Randolph) but can defend like Artest in the lineup.

  70. hoolahoop: If Melo wanted to play in NY so much, why wouldn’t he just come out and say it boldly, instead of saying he has not made up his mind.1. the Knicks need a man that will relish fighting with Garnett or anyone else that enters his domain – the paint. The knicks lost that game on defense, under the basket.2. get a real back-up for Felton. TD sucks (as a PG or SG).If the knicks take their time to see if the current roster is really as good as they’ve been playing, their money can be more wisely spent by resolving weaknesses than getting by paying for a superstar. It’s been said over and over again -scoring points has not been the knicks problem.  (Quote)

    Because he still has to play a lot of home games before the trade deadline.

  71. JK47: One of the biggest problems with our roster right now is that we have virtually no ability to throw different looks at the opponent, either on offense or defense.D’Antoni has not been able to really exploit mismatches all that much.It’s pretty much “here’s our five guys, try to figure out a way to beat us.”Toney Douglas and Ronny Turiaf as the main bench guys don’t really do very much for our versatility, mainly because they simply aren’t all that good.Plain and simple, we need more guys who are good enough to get minutes.  

    JK,

    I don’t think we have to throw different looks at opponents when they can’t handle the look were giving them. One of the things I really like about this team is that opponents are forced to adjust to us, not the other way around. I think this is a big strength. We are a natural mis-match for any team. They don’t play as fast as us, they can’t keep pace with our 3 ball, the cant effectively guard our PnR, etc.

    We all agree we need to get better on defense, but nobody has been able to stop our offense, so I see no need to “throw different looks” at them. We can improve our bench, no doubt. But keep that starting 5 intact until someone figures out how to stop us.

  72. What comes closer, however, is Curry’s expiring, Mason and Walker. At that point there’s $300,000 or so cash for the Bobcats to cover, so maybe a 2nd rounder? They might be desperate, but probably not THAT desperate.  

    (Quote)

    Ha! No team is that desperate. Besides you dont want to trade Curry’s deal just to bring back two more years of salary unless you are getting a star to near star level player. I like Wallace, but not at 22 million for the next two years.

  73. Thomas B.: Ha! No team is that desperate. Besides you dont want to trade Curry’s deal just to bring back two more years of salary unless you are getting a star to near star level player. I like Wallace, but not at 22 million for the next two years.

    I would certainly consider Wallace “near star level” at least. Although you’re right that it would be quite a bit to take on, he’s still incredibly versatile and can guard almost any position on the court. But I guess my worry isn’t so much his age or his contract as it is his reckless disregard for his own health and safety. You think he tries to pull death-defying circus stunts in a Larry Brown system, imagine what he’ll do to himself with 10 more fast break opportunities a game. He might literally kill himself.

  74. @80 We’re the #4 offense; would be better if we’re #1. I get what you’re saying though– what we really need is just more guys who can play SSOL at a high level.

    But there is still room for improvement on offense too. D’Antoni’s Suns teams ranked 1st or 2nd in offensive rating every year he coached them. The D’Antoni Suns just crushed the rest of the league in eFG%. Look at the leaders in team eFG% for the 2006-2007 season:

    PHO .551
    SA .521
    GS .512
    LAL .511
    DAL .509

    They crush everybody else by huge margin. They were the #1 offense despite finishing 29th in ORB%. Offensive rebounding doesn’t matter so much when you never miss I guess. Anyway, our current ‘Bockers team is 4th in the league in eFG%. Good, but not where we probably need to be if we’re trying to outscore every other team in the NBA. Every single one of D’Antoni’s Phoenix teams demolished the rest of the NBA when it comes to eFG%; they were number 1 every year and by double digit margins. That’s where we need to get to.

    It may seem crazy, but we do need to get better on offense.

  75. JK47 – We are not the #1 ranked offense, but it took us ten games to get rolling on offense. I would bet since then we have been the #1 offense in the NBA. Through the first ten games we were actually a below average offense. So the top teams like the Lakers and Spurs had a huge head start.

    I like that our team is young and on the rise. If we trade our youth for established players then all of a sudden we need to win now. I would love Wallace but I would not give up Chandler, Fields, Gallinari or Randolph for him. I also would not give up any of them for Camby and Miller.

    Randolph hasn’t shown us much but people are throwing in the towel way too fast. He is a promising young player that just hasn’t figured out this system yet. I would be shocked if he isn’t a very valuable player in two years, worst case a very good bench player. Inconsistant play is the down side of a young team. I don’t mind trading players but right now any trade with Randolph is giving him away for pennies on the dollar.

    People need to be patient. Let’s make our choices with season after next in mind. That is probably the soonest we can realistically make a run for the title anyway. Let’s win games, enjoy this run and learn how to win, both in the regular season and in the playoffs, then once Chandler, Fields, Gallinari, Douglas, Mozgov, and Randolph start hitting their primes we will be ready to compete with the top tier.

  76. I just don’t think D’Antoni would go after Wallace b/c of his lack of jump shot. Josh Smith maybe.
    It does seem like the goal is to put Amare in the middle and surround him with shooters, so if you could upgrade defense AND shooting at once (clearly not Melo) that would be something…

  77. tastycakes: Melo vs Fraggle from last year:http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=anthoca01&y1=2010&p2=harrial01&y2=2010Scary stuff.   

    I don’t get it. From the stats you linked, Anthony is (no surprise) better than Al Harrington.

    Anthony’s stats are better across the board with the lone exception of 3 point shooting, which Harrington is only marginally better at, yet attempted over 4 more per36. Harrington had a slight edge in rebound%, but played almost exclusively at PF. Meanwhile Anthony had double the assist rate.

    He’s also 4 years younger.

    He also really wants to play in NY, which, with “LeChicken” (yes, that was the headline of the NY Post today, complete with LeBron’s face glued onto a chicken’s body) in town today, should make get us excited, not scared. It’s a positive character trait that Knick fans should embrace.

  78. ess-dog: I just don’t think D’Antoni would go after Wallace b/c of his lack of jump shot.Josh Smith maybe.
    It does seem like the goal is to put Amare in the middle and surround him with shooters, so if you could upgrade defense AND shooting at once (clearly not Melo) that would be something…  

    I think D’antoni likes smart, productive players. Wallace fits that bill. Plus, Wallace is almost the spitting image of Marion. They’re numbers and style of play are identical.

  79. I have always loved Gerald Wallace, I’d be ecstatic if we could land him without giving up too much.

  80. bugsy:
    I think D’antoni likes smart, productive players. Wallace fits that bill. Plus, Wallace is almost the spitting image of Marion. They’re numbers and style of play are identical.  

    Exactly. Obviously the contract is sizable, but I honestly don’t think there’s a let-down risk with this guy. He busts his ass harder than just about anyone in the league, and has done it for years on fledgling-to-mediocre teams. While not an outside shooting threat per se, his slashing ability is deadly, and I can easily see him roaming the baseline ala Fields, attacking the offensive glass and getting a ton of put-backs. Who knows, there might even be a way to get Sherron Collins or Shaun Livingston along with Wallace.

  81. Jimmy C:
    Exactly. Obviously the contract is sizable, but I honestly don’t think there’s a let-down risk with this guy. He busts his ass harder than just about anyone in the league, and has done it for years on fledgling-to-mediocre teams. While not an outside shooting threat per se, his slashing ability is deadly, and I can easily see him roaming the baseline ala Fields, attacking the offensive glass and getting a ton of put-backs. Who knows, there might even be a way to get Sherron Collins or Shaun Livingston along with Wallace.  

    I think the problem might be injury risk, he’s had some rough injuries already and he plays 100% non-stop every game with those crazy kamikaze fastbreaks

  82. Bruno Almeida:
    I think the problem might be injury risk, he’s had some rough injuries already and he plays 100% non-stop every game with those crazy kamikaze fastbreaks  

    That’s a good point. I mentioned earlier in the thread that, in this system, he might literally end up killing himself. That’s obviously a risk, but you can’t discount the upside of that kind of energy and what it could bring to the team — and to the Garden, for that matter.

  83. Jimmy C:
    That’s a good point. I mentioned earlier in the thread that, in this system, he might literally end up killing himself. That’s obviously a risk, but you can’t discount the upside of that kind of energy and what it could bring to the team — and to the Garden, for that matter.  

    yeah, he would electrify the arena, he really could be a guy who’d play much better with the crowd, after spending all those years in that empty arena.

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