Knicks Morning News (Wednesday, Mar 21 2012)

  • [New York Newsday] Energized Knicks rout Raptors (Wed, 21 Mar 2012 00:18:49 EDT)

    The Knicks played with an infectious energy in the fourth quarter last night that was sparked by their defense. There were chest-bumping each other, screaming after big defensive stands and waving their arms for the fans to get up.

  • [New York Newsday] Knicks fired up to catch 76ers (Wed, 21 Mar 2012 00:21:56 EDT)

    The Knicks boarded the Amtrak for Philadelphia Tuesday night beaming with confidence after their fourth straight win and believing they can catch and surpass the Atlantic Division-leading 76ers.

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks ‘D’ leads to fourth straight win (Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:43:11 GMT)

    The Knicks were left for dead less than a week ago and now they are within striking distance of catching Philadelphia in the Atlantic Division standings. If this keeps up, James Dolan may start removing and hiring head coaches on a weekly basis.

  • [New York Daily News] For Knicks, a lot to like with this Mike (Wed, 21 Mar 2012 05:12:18 GMT)

    It’s all fun and games for the Knicks now. They have won four in a row under interim coach Mike Woodson. They toyed with the Raptors at the Garden Tuesday night, doing to Toronto what other teams â?? good and bad â?? have done all season long.

  • [New York Daily News] Woodson: Knicks need this energy from Melo (Wed, 21 Mar 2012 05:04:33 GMT)

    Mike Woodson doesn’t know why Carmelo Anthony wasn’t playing with the same intensity under Mike D’Antoni but the new Knicks head coach admits that if Anthony was at the top of his game all season “we probably wouldn’t be sitting in this position that we’re sitting in today, fighting for a playoff spot.â?

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks ‘D’ leads to fourth straight win (Wed, 21 Mar 2012 02:17:20 GMT)

    The Knicks were left for dead less a week ago and now they are within striking distance of catching Philadelphia in the Atlantic Division standings. If this keeps up, James Dolan may start removing and hiring head coaches on a weekly basis.

  • [New York Times] Knicks 106, Raptors 87: Smiles and Victories Are Back for Knicks (Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:17:19 GMT)

    Amar’e Stoudemire had 22 points and 12 rebounds as the Knicks won their fourth straight game under the new coach Mike Woodson.

  • [New York Times] Bobcats Struggle to Keep Up in N.B.A. and With A.C.C. (Wed, 21 Mar 2012 05:40:08 GMT)

    The contrast in North Carolina basketball loyalties — pro versus college — is starkly apparent, particularly with the seven-win Bobcats and the state’s N.C.A.A. tournament teams.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: James Absorbs Hard Hits as Heat Rally Past the Suns (Wed, 21 Mar 2012 05:48:07 GMT)

    Chris Bosh scored 29 points and Miami used a 17-0 fourth-quarter run to erase a 10-point deficit.

  • [New York Times] Kings Top Grizzlies 119-110 for Third Straight Win (Wed, 21 Mar 2012 04:49:13 GMT)

    Marcus Thornton scored 31 points, DeMarcus Cousins had 23 points and five rebounds before fouling out and the Sacramento Kings held off the Memphis Grizzlies 119-110 on Tuesday night for only their second three-game winning streak this season.

  • [New York Times] Gooden Leads Bucks Past Blazers, 116-87 (Wed, 21 Mar 2012 04:37:23 GMT)

    Drew Gooden scored 19 points and the Milwaukee Bucks beat Portland 116-87 on Tuesday night in the Trail Blazers’ first home game since coach Nate McMillan was fired last week.

  • [New York Times] Paul Millsap Leads Jazz Past Thunder, 97-90 (Wed, 21 Mar 2012 04:13:17 GMT)

    Paul Millsap scored 20 points, Al Jefferson had 16 and Devin Harris added 15 to lead the Utah Jazz to their fourth straight victory, 97-90 over the Oklahoma City Thunder on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Dragic Leads Rockets’ Rally Over Lakers (Wed, 21 Mar 2012 03:16:21 GMT)

    Even Kobe Bryant was impressed by Goran Dragic on Wednesday night, giving the Houston point guard a quick hug at midcourt after the Rockets rallied to beat the Lakers.

  • [New York Times] Heat Score 17 Straight Late, Rally Past Suns 99-95 (Wed, 21 Mar 2012 02:31:31 GMT)

    Chris Bosh scored 29 points, LeBron James survived two scary falls and the Miami Heat used a 17-0 fourth-quarter run to erase a 10-point deficit and beat the Phoenix Suns 99-95 on Tuesday night for their 14th straight home victory.

  • [New York Times] Knicks Rout Raptors, 4-0 Under Woodson (Wed, 21 Mar 2012 02:22:16 GMT)

    Amare Stoudemire had 22 points and 12 rebounds, Jeremy Lin added 18 points and 10 assists, and the New York Knicks made it four straight easy victories under Mike Woodson by beating the Toronto Raptors 106-87 on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Granger Leads Pacers Past Clippers, 102-89 (Wed, 21 Mar 2012 01:55:40 GMT)

    Danny Granger scored 25 points to help the Indiana Pacers beat the Los Angeles Clippers 102-89 on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: Woodson’s Challenge: Scoring Production (Wed, 21 Mar 2012 01:09:31 GMT)

    The New York Knicks are fine defensively, and if they improve their scoring production they could be a dangerous team to face in the playoffs.

  • [New York Post] Woodson, Knicks beat Raptors for 4th win (Wed, 21 Mar 2012 04:14:58 -0500)

    First it was Jeremy Lin with a steal and fast-break dunk. Then Carmelo Anthony got a steal and tossed an alley-oop to Tyson Chandler in transition as the Garden crowd reached fever pitch last night. Less than a minute later, Anthony threw one down off a feed from Amar’e…

  • [New York Post] Melo & Co. wouldn’t be in hole if they hadn’t quit on D’Antoni (Wed, 21 Mar 2012 01:42:39 -0500)

    There was Carmelo Anthony Tuesday night stealing an entry pass in the fourth quarter, gliding upcourt and lobbing an alley-oop for Tyson Chandler for the jam.
    The Garden exploded, Anthony and Jeremy Lin chest-bumped at halfcourt, and the Knicks were on the way to making Mike Woodson 4-0 with a…

  • [New York Post] Knicks’ Lin puts on bloody good show (Wed, 21 Mar 2012 01:33:08 -0500)

    Everyone knew Jeremy Lin could play for Mike D’Antoni. Now he is showing he can play for Mike Woodson, too.
    In his second straight dynamite outing, Lin got his nose bloodied in the first quarter, then bloodied the Raptors with an 18-point, 10-assist, three-turnover outing as the Knicks won…

  • [New York Post] Serby’s Q & A with… Mike Woodson (Wed, 21 Mar 2012 03:41:50 -0500)

    Steve Serby sat down with new Knicks coach Mike Woodson on Monday to discuss growing up in hoops-crazy Indiana, the influence of Bob Knight, his coaching philosophies and how good his Knicks team can be.

    Q: What is that Headless Body in Topless Bar book cover in your office?

    A…

  • [New York Post] Raptors GM: D’Antoni not on radar (Wed, 21 Mar 2012 01:33:08 -0500)

    Raptors general manage Bryan Colangelo said he expects Mike D’Antoni to return to the sidelines soon, but said his close friend won’t wind up in Toronto.
    “We’re locked down with our coaching, with [Dwane] Casey,â? said Colangelo, trying to nip in the bud any talk of his…

  • [ESPN.com – New York Knicks] Knicks ready for 'huge game' in Philly (Wed, 21 Mar 2012 00:46:04 EDT)

    The last time the New York Knicks faced the Philadelphia 76ers, they trailed by 21 points in the second half and their two stars spent the fourth quarter sulking on the bench.
    After the embarrassing 12-point loss, their head coach said they didn’t show the heart to fight back.

    AP Photo/Frank Franklin IITyson Chandler at the Knicks are eager for a rematch with the division-leading Sixers.
    Plenty has changed in the past 10 days.
    The coach, Mike D’Antoni, is gone.

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    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    47 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (Wednesday, Mar 21 2012)”

    1. Randon Morning thought.
      Wouldn’t Lin be the clear cut MVP of this team this season? Without him, the season would have been over long ago, and all we would be talking about would be hoping they get a top 5 pick so they could keep their pick.
      I just want to note this so anyone who criticizes his defense or overdribbling or whatever, realizes that there is no season without Lin.

    2. 2FOR18:
      Randon Morning thought.
      Wouldn’t Lin be the clear cut MVP of this team this season?Without him, the season would have been over long ago, and all we would be talking about would be hoping they get a top 5 pick so they could keep their pick.
      I just want to note this so anyone who criticizes his defense or overdribbling or whatever, realizes that there is no season without Lin.

      I can see the Lin argument, but I’d have to go with Tyson Chandler….when they have won it has generally been on the defensive end…..they are a top 10 team in defensive efficiency….compare that to the putrid defensive teams of last few seasons and lack of interior presence which made us want to pull our hair out….he also allows STAT to play the 4 and stay fresher and not get banged around…STAT is surging now rather than breaking down….it really is debatable between the 2, as they are the most 2 important positions ont he court….last year we lacked a strong 5, first 20 games of season we lacked a 1…what we have seen is without a viable starter at each position it is VERY difficult to be a winning ballclub. A competent 1 is a bit more expendable and easier to find, though, than a defensive 5 like Chandler…were it not for the internal divisions, Melo and STAT not being in shape or injured to start, lack of training camp…these things hurt the team to start the season….put any halfway decent PG on Knicks now and they are good…..put any halfway decent C (i.e. not a ferocious beast like Chandler) on Knicks right now and I am not sure they are as good.

    3. Tyson for sure is the MVP of the team with Lin a close second, especially now that Baron is back- although I guess the point could be made that without Linsanity, we would never have had Novak-aine (who has been just huge for us) and JR Smith would probably be a Clipper right now.

      By the way- I will continue my post-ASB Amare watch:
      354 minutes (32 min/game)
      Per-36 numbers:
      19.6 points, 9.1 rebounds, 0.6 assists, 1 block, 1.7 TOs
      TS 60.4
      Unquantifiably better defense

      These numbers are not that far off from his later PHX days especially given his lower usage.

      I love how Woodson is splitting up the minutes – no starter with >34 minutes. If Bibby wasn’t so horrible yesterday (and if we could hit $#^&#%$ free throws), that game would’ve been over well before the 4th quarter.

    4. Chandler is easily the MVP of the team thus far.

      and yes, stop playing Bibby. even if Baron is out, there is no need.

      how about that lineup with Chandler/Amare/Anthony/Novak and a guard early in the 4th? Woodson only stuck with it for two minutes (6-6 in scoring) and Calderon loved seeing all those big guys out there, but still interesting.

    5. Lin saved the season partly because TD and Bibby were playing ahead of him earlier, simply being a competent starting guard after running through those 2 would have made a major improvement. We also benched Walker in favor of Novak when Lin came in (another massive improvement), but the real MVP has been Chandler easily. I’m not totally convinced he’d be better than Melo at his best (they both fill scare roles on the team), but with Melo’s struggles Chandler has clearly shined inside, and was just as big a factor as Lin during the Linsanity games.

    6. If we want to objective…this team can only go as far as Lin can carry them. But a lot of people are clearly fans of specific players like Melo and so they don’t like that another player is stealing their favorite player’s thunder, their petty minded thought process is this, “I don’t really like Lin stealing the spotlight, but I can’t deny that he helps the team greatly, so I’m going to come up with some random reason to justify my prejudice.” If people keep obesessing over who is the MVP of the team…the knicks are going to go back to their losing ways. And Juany8, what you really mean to say is “Lin ain’t all that good, it’s that TD and Bibby were so bad, anyone coming in would make the Knicks look good.” If you think someone can just “come in” and just be a successful point guard on a professional basketball team, you probably never know what success is, and what it takes to succeed in life. There’s a reason why people succeed, and people fail, you don’t just show up and luck out.

    7. Yeah, Tyson Chandler is no doubt the MVP for us. He brings that defensive intensity and defensive rebounding every night. Only foul trouble or injuries can stop him from bringing it every game. He is the anchor for a good team defense. Lin has been invaluable, certainly. Without his emergence, we’d likely have missed the playoffs unless we could have pulled off a trade for Ramon Sessions. But he hasn’t been as consistent as Tyson.

      Chandler was also a huge part of the system that slowed LeBron in the Finals, which could be huge for this team.

    8. @7 I’m really unsure what your point is. The first half of your statement seems incredibly conflicting.

      How do you say, “If people keep obesessing over who is the MVP of the team…the knicks are going to go back to their losing ways,” and “this team can only go as far as Lin can carry them,” in the same thought stream?

    9. NO NO NO!!! You all got it wrong, the MVP of the Knicks has to be Melo for getting Dantoni fired. Haha thank you Melo.

      2FOR18:
      Randon Morning thought.
      Wouldn’t Lin be the clear cut MVP of this team this season?Without him, the season would have been over long ago, and all we would be talking about would be hoping they get a top 5 pick so they could keep their pick.
      I just want to note this so anyone who criticizes his defense or overdribbling or whatever, realizes that there is no season without Lin.

    10. jon abbey:
      Chandler is easily the MVP of the team thus far.

      and yes, stop playing Bibby. even if Baron is out, there is no need.

      how about that lineup with Chandler/Amare/Anthony/Novak and a guard early in the 4th? Woodson only stuck with it for two minutes (6-6 in scoring) and Calderon loved seeing all those big guys out there, but still interesting.

      In a strange way, lineups like that means that Woodson is looking to late season and playoffs and trying mightily to spare his starters. The Knicks with their depth could not only be the deepest team in the playoffs, but the most rested.

      My vote is Lin as MVP so far. Defense has been very important, but they had Tyson before Lin, and this team was putrid without a competent guard, let alone a very good one, and Lin has become a very good guard.
      It’s a very tight vote, but Lin transformed the team and the mood of the team.
      But what I love about this team right now is the balance and the selfless, smart play.
      Melo’s shot is a horror right now, but he made some snappy passes yesterday. What has happened is that on any given night one of the starters is a stand out, Amare is the offensive steady and Tyson anchors the D with awesome assists from Jeffries and Shump.
      And people can say what they want about Fields, but his play has tightened, and he’s slashing and creating problems. His jumper is broke, but he’s making up for it with athleticism.
      They play outstanding D and their offense has finally exploded. Every team in the league faces big match up problems with the Knicks.

    11. I know giving props to Melo is a little unpopular, but I love that he has been taking fewer shots these past four games. He has been racking up more assists as well. It’s better for the team moving forward if Melo continues this way. Hopefully he doesn’t care about his ppg numbers. He doesn’t need to be a 25 ppg scorer. This Melo is way cooler.

    12. Someone mentioned this in a prior thread, but the Knicks ramped up defensive intensity is making their offense look a lot better. The last 4 games the Knicks have 44 steals, which in a lot of cases leads to fast break layups and dunks. The result is less half court possessions and more offensive efficiency. The Heat, as we all know, thrive when they play this way.

    13. I think a major reason why we are winning now is that under Woodson Melo has been looking more like Pierce as the games progress. This is the mold he needs to follow, Not durant, kobe etc…

    14. Based on the number of times he’s been mentioned on this site, I’d have to think that Kenneth Faried should be considered a frontrunner for the title of Knicks MVP.

    15. +1

      Count de Pennies:
      Based on the number of times he’s been mentioned on this site, I’d have to think that Kenneth Faried should be considered a frontrunner for the title of Knicks MVP.

    16. We´ll call it a tie, folks…

      2011-2012 Knicks co-MVPs:

      Daryl Morey & Mark Cuban!!!

    17. Epic Knicks round table from Hardwood Paroxysm. Really enjoyed reading this. Some very thoughtful answers that mirror a similar conversation we’ve been having over here.

      http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2012/03/i-emailed-some-knicks-fans-again/

      Excuse this lengthy quote, but I thought this was very well said:

      “What could have really changed so dramatically between around 10 or 11 AM when news broke that Mike D’Antoni would resign, and later that night when the Knicks manhandled the Portland Trailblazers? If all it took was a bunch of platitudes about accountability and defense to get this team to play hard then Mike D’Antoni was a miserable failure for not providing the requisite lip service.

      But I don’t think that’s what happened. Again, the team did play hard
      and give all out effort during Linsanity. Again, ‘Melo wasn’t around
      for that. When he returned, team effort vanished into the ether and I
      think D’Antoni knew it wouldn’t come back as long as ‘Melo continued
      to play disinterested, aloof ball, which he would continue to do so long as D’Antoni was his coach. That disinterested, aloof ball rubbed off on teammates and affected them mentally, undermined their confidence, which is an attribute that has clearly returned to the team in spades. Clearly a weight has been lifted off of ‘Melo’s teammates backs.

      That’s because ‘Melo – the team’s captain, who is also perceived to be their best player – has no excuses anymore for his failure to compete.

      And in the three games since D’Antoni left, what’s been different about ‘Melo? It certainly hasn’t been his dreadful shooting, which has
      continued. No, instead we’ve seen ‘Melo hustle for loose balls, be aggressive on defense, and play more physically than we’ve seen him play as a Knick, period. If people want to think that’s because Mike Woodson fed the press some sound-bites, well, then I don’t know what to tell ‘ya. The reality is that ‘Melo knows it’s his butt on the line now.”

    18. You know, even I am tired of talking about Melo. Though not as tired as I am of watching him miss shots…

      Saw Fisher is going to sign with the Thunder.

      Could he not sign with the Lakers post buyout? Or did he choose the Lakers?

    19. While I agree that the players are self-motivating now since D’Antoni left. I think you have to give Woodson some credit. Woodson is trying to get an contract extension or get a possible head coach job elsewhere so he will be pushing the players to perform till the end of the season. D’Antoni knew his time was up in New York and when the players sense the coach dont care , they dont care.

    20. Owen:
      You know, even I am tired of talking about Melo. Though not as tired as I am of watching him miss shots…

      Saw Fisher is going to sign with the Thunder.

      Could he not sign with the Lakers post buyout? Or did he choose the Lakers?

      I believe the new CBA has provisions to disallow that – don’t recall the details, but maybe a 6-month waiting period to go back to the same team?

    21. Owen:
      You know, even I am tired of talking about Melo. Though not as tired as I am of watching him miss shots…

      Saw Fisher is going to sign with the Thunder.

      Could he not sign with the Lakers post buyout? Or did he choose the Lakers?

      He wasn’t allowed to sign with the Lakers – new rule to prevent Ilgauskas-like situations where teams trade players knowing they will get them back.

    22. Lin is the highest rated Knick on basketballvalue.com (and in the top 40 in the league), so I’m going to go with him. And I’m also going to call out the continual slights: “any competent point guard could have done this” and “succeed mainly by not being Bibby”. I’m sure a lot of teams would love to know where this easy supply of “competent” point guards are.

      No one knows what the future holds, but up to this point, across a large sample of opponents including the best defensive teams in the league, Lin’s aggregate production is excellent. And he’s played, what, 1000 minutes in his career?

    23. Just where is Lin supposed to rank in the league exactly? He’s a capable starter, but there are 10-15 point guards who are either better or right around the same in terms of skill level. People keep saying he’s a rookie like that changes how he’s played this year. Sure he might be a star one day. Sure he can and most likely will improve as his career goes on, he has a fair bit of potential. That doesn’t mean I already have to rank him there when talking about THIS year’s team. I don’t have anything personal against Lin, I don’t know a single one of these players (except Carl Landry, I’ve chilled with him a few times lol) I just don’t think he’s been a star, and I do think how much more valuable you are than your replacement means a big deal in a single team’s context. Not any point guard would have done what Lin did, but just about any of them would have been an improvement over TD and Bibby.

    24. Lin’s per-36 post-ASB, “post-Linsanity” #s:

      17.7 points, 8.7 assists, 4 rebounds, 2.1 steals, 3.9 TOs on TS 55%

      Comparisons (other players post-ASB #s per -36)
      Dwill – 23.6 pts, 8.7 assists, 3.1 rebounds, 1.5 steals, 4.1 TOs on TS 54.4
      CP3 – 19.8 pts, 7.9 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 2.3 steals, 1.7 TOs on 59.3% TS
      Parker – 23.4 pts, 8 assists, 2.9 rebounds, 0.8 steals, 3.7 TOs on TS 59.6
      Lawson – 13.8 pts, 8.3 assists, 5.2 rebounds, 1.6 steals, 3.1 TOs on TS 57.3
      Irving – 23.4 pts, 7.8 assists, 4.9 rebounds, 1.5 steals, 3.3 TOs on TS 56.6

      Point is – even with the end of Linsanity and with his usage plummeting, Lin is still playing at an amazingly high level comparable to the best PGs in the league and the best rookie in the league. I think our worries of him being a flash in the pan are over – he is definitively for real.

    25. Owen:
      You know, even I am tired of talking about Melo. Though not as tired as I am of watching him miss shots…

      You mean you’re tired of talking about the same thing for a year and a month (to the day!) ad nauseum? Academics talk about the same thing for their entire careers. Maybe that’s why Cock Jowles shows no signs of flagging on the topic of Melo’s WS.

    26. Frank:
      Lin’s per-36 post-ASB, “post-Linsanity” #s:

      17.7 points, 8.7 assists, 4 rebounds, 2.1 steals, 3.9 TOs on TS 55%

      Comparisons (other players post-ASB #s per -36)
      Dwill – 23.6 pts, 8.7 assists, 3.1 rebounds, 1.5 steals, 4.1 TOs on TS 54.4
      CP3 – 19.8 pts, 7.9 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 2.3 steals, 1.7 TOs on 59.3% TS
      Parker – 23.4 pts, 8 assists, 2.9 rebounds, 0.8 steals, 3.7 TOs on TS 59.6
      Lawson – 13.8 pts, 8.3 assists, 5.2 rebounds, 1.6 steals, 3.1 TOs on TS 57.3
      Irving – 23.4 pts, 7.8 assists, 4.9 rebounds, 1.5 steals, 3.3 TOs on TS 56.6

      Point is – even with the end of Linsanity and with his usage plummeting, Lin is still playing at an amazingly high level comparable to the best PGs in the league and the best rookie in the league.I think our worries of him being a flash in the pan are over – he is definitively for real.

      That actually is pretty impressive, although I don’t think that ranking him around 15th for PG’s in the league means I think he’s a flash in the pan. There’s been a clear difference in skill level when Lin plays against guys like Rose and Rondo, it’s fair to say he’s not near the top PG’s yet (there are some truly amazing point guards playing right now). Chandler doesn’t need any kind of context or qualifications, he’s been simply great (although it would be great if he developed a 10-15 ft jumper, even if his efficiency would inevitably suffer)

    27. I think, as far as ranking goes, that we’re erroneously regarding being about the 15th best PG in the league as average because it’s half of 30. In reality, considering how many PGs there are in the NBA 15th is really good. Especially considering how good PGs have been in recent years.

    28. I think after the top 8 (Rose, Paul, Williams, Nash, Westbrook, Rondo, Parker, Irving) Lin could rank anywhere in the next 8 (Lowry, Lawson, Curry, Rubio, Wall, Harris, Calderon, Lin)

      So I would say 10-15 is about the right ranking for Lin and when you consider he is a 2nd year player, playing what is for all intents and purposes his first real minutes that is impressive.

    29. Gideon Zaga: NO NO NO!!! You all got it wrong, the MVP of the Knicks has to be Melo for getting Dantoni fired. Haha thank you Melo.

      LOL, you keep on carrying that flag!

    30. I think you’d have to have co-MVP Chandler and Lin. Chandler because would be a notch higher in my book, because without him, we have maybe 4 wins on Feb 3rd. Lin because, without him there’s no hope for the playoffs. Jared Jeffries should get some kind of people’s choice award though. He’s won over alot of fans.

    31. By the way, Tebow to the Jets. Can this city handle Linsanity and Tebow mania at the same time?? The world may just end…

    32. Ben R: I think after the top 8 (Rose, Paul, Williams, Nash, Westbrook, Rondo, Parker, Irving) Lin could rank anywhere in the next 8 (Lowry, Lawson, Curry, Rubio, Wall, Harris, Calderon, Lin)So I would say 10-15 is about the right ranking for Lin and when you consider he is a 2nd year player, playing what is for all intents and purposes his first real minutes that is impressive.

      You’re severely underrating Lowry and Rubio and overrating Devin Harris. Possibly underrating Curry too. He’s put up incredible shooting numbers in his short career so far. Even if he doesn’t improve as a shooter at all, he still goes down as one of the top shooters in league history.

    33. Juany8: That actually is pretty impressive, although I don’t think that ranking him around 15th for PG’s in the league means I think he’s a flash in the pan. There’s been a clear difference in skill level when Lin plays against guys like Rose and Rondo, it’s fair to say he’s not near the top PG’s yet (there are some truly amazing point guards playing right now).

      I think its a little different because we watch Lin every night, so we notice his flaws more. Take Derrick Rose for example – we all agree he’s better than Lin, but how much better? Its unfair to just compare their head to head performance in that one game, because Rose was going against our team defense, while Lin was going against Chicago’s.

      In aggregate stats, Lin has, on similar usage, a higher TS%, higher assist%, higher rebound rate, and higher steal %. Rose has a lower TOV%.

      Lin has mostly struggled against top 5 defenses. Here are Rose’s games against top 5 defenses this year:

      1/3 ATL – 8/22, 30 pts, 7 ast, 2 to
      1/13 BOS – 9/21, 25 pts, 7 ast, 3 to
      1/29 MIA – 11/28, 34 pts, 6 ast, 2 to
      2/1 PHI – 8/17, 18 pts, 6 ast, 4 to
      2/20 ATL – 8/18, 23 pts, 6 ast, 4 to
      3/4 PHI – 12/23, 35 pts, 8 ast, 3 to

      So he hasn’t exactly lit it up against top defenses either. Basically, all point guards have their flaws, and all are going to take a hit statistically when playing a top defense. Lin is by no means in the same tier as Derrick Rose, but I think we’re too hard on him. We imagine guys like Rose to be a lot better than they are because we don’t watch them and see their mistakes as often.

    34. formido:
      I’m also going to call out the continual slights: “any competent point guard could have done this” and “succeed mainly by not being Bibby”. I’m sure a lot of teams would love to know where this easy supply of “competent” point guards are.

      The late, great, Ted Nelson used to say (diatribe?) that Point Guard was the easiest position to fill from the replacement pool. Lin certainly validates that belief.

      Viva Ted!

    35. GoKnicksGo:
      If we want to objective…this team can only go as far as Lin can carry them.But a lot of people are clearly fans of specific playerslike Melo and so they don’t like that another player is stealing their favorite player’s thunder, their petty minded thought process is this, “I don’t really like Lin stealing the spotlight, but I can’t deny that he helps the team greatly, so I’m going to come up with some random reason to justify my prejudice.”If people keep obesessing over who is the MVP of the team…the knicks are going to go back to their losing ways.And Juany8, what you really mean to say is “Lin ain’t all that good, it’s that TD and Bibby were so bad, anyone coming in would make the Knicks look good.” If you think someone can just “come in” and just be a successful point guard on a professional basketball team, you probably never know what success is, and what it takes to succeed in life.There’s a reason why people succeed, and people fail, you don’t just show up and luck out.

      Sad but true..

    36. @36, that’s an interesting point, although as Ben R said earlier, ranking him around 10-15th in the league when PG is the deepest position is actually pretty good for an undrafted rookie. I’ve made a few suggestions that maybe Baron should take over in the playoffs if he’s really in game shape, but that’s because Baron Davis has put up individual playoff runs that compare with the best players of all time, and rookies tend to have a hard time in the playoffs.

      @38, if you (or GoKnicksGo) are assuming I’d rather Melo do well than see the team do well then that’s kind of absurd. I think this team will go farther with an offense centered around nobody, there’s a lot of offensive talent on this team and no one player, especially not Lin, should be the the centerpiece. What should happen is that Woodson should run a few plays a game to try to get Amar’e, Melo, and Lin in good positions to score on their own merits. The general offensive plan should also consider what’s happening in the game, if Amar’e or Melo or getting on a bit of a roll then they should be featured, or if Novak continues to shoot like this specific plays should be run to get him open. D’Antoni didn’t believe in that level of offensive detail, hopefully Woodson isn’t as stubborn in thinking that he’s more important than the players.

    37. Z: The late, great, Ted Nelson used to say (diatribe?) that Point Guard was the easiest position to fill from the replacement pool. Lin certainly validates that belief.

      Viva Ted!

      I literally can’t believe that a fan of a team that had Toney Douglas and Mike Bibby as PGs for the 1st half of the season could actually write this and hit submit.

      I would say the easiest positions to find are SG/SF. How many swingmen are there in this league that are mediocre and interchangeable?

    38. I don’t think that’s exactly what Ted was saying. And I think he might argue that Toney Douglas wasn’t actually a point guard.

      I think though that the general idea that there is much greater variation in talent level as players get taller is correct, i.e. guards are more interchangeable than other positions….

    39. Frank: I literally can’t believe that a fan of a team that had Toney Douglas and Mike Bibby as PGs for the 1st half of the season could actually write this and hit submit.

      I would say the easiest positions to find are SG/SF. How many swingmen are there in this league that are mediocre and interchangeable?

      One reason that might actually be true is that there are far more skilled basketball players than there are basketball players big and athletic enough to play in the NBA. PG is the position of least physical requirement, and if you actually look at the NBA PG is easily the deepest position. Multiple teams have starting level PG’s coming off the bench (Denver, Houston, Cleveland before the Sessions trade, Minnesota, OKC before the Maynor injury), it’s just hard to believe that the Knicks somehow ended up with the 2 worst rotation players in the NBA taking up all the PG minutes. Still, PG is the one position abundant enough in skill to allow every team to have a solid starter. How many good centers are there? Good SG’s? Eric Gordon might be the best young SG in the league right now, there’s literally no one else, while any PG lists being thrown around don’t even consider players like Jennings and Wall who have obvious potential and some excellent games to back it up.

    40. Oh and Lin hasn’t been the only out of nowhere guard to do a solid job this year, look at the string of D-Leaguers having good games for Chicago while Rose is injured. Any of those guys would have been an improvement over TD and Bibby, they’re actually quite solid players who don’t make a ton of mistakes.

    41. I think we’re completely downplaying how good Jeremy has been. He has the 10th highest PER of any PG in the league (9th if you discount Lou Williams who isn’t really a PG), and 30th highest PER overall. This is not a “replacement level” player. Guys like John Lucas (who HAS done a nice job) are just not producing at the same statistical level as Jeremy is – Lucas has a PER of 16.16, good for 107th in the league.

      PER obviously has its weaknesses as an evaluation tool, but I still think it is illustrative of the point that Jeremy’s success is not just indicative of PG being an easy position to fill. If anything, you could argue that if he was allowed to play like he was playing during Linsanity, he would be even better. Remember, he took a group of 3 bench players + Tyson Chandler to a 7-1 record and wins over the Lakers and Dallas. Lucas has done a nice job for Chicago and they have a good record without Rose – but that’s the point. They have ALWAYS done well without Rose. the Knicks were 8-15 without him, and are now 14-9 with him even WITH a 6 game losing streak.

    42. Frank: I literally can’t believe that a fan of a team that had Toney Douglas and Mike Bibby as PGs for the 1st half of the season could actually write this and hit submit.

      Who, me or Ted? (I was responding to the “easy supply of competent point guards” statement).

      Ted’s point, if I remember correctly, was in response to those that lambasted Walsh in 2009 for choosing Hill over the dearth of PGs available at the time. He believed it was easier to stumble upon PG gold in Europe, the D-League, and undrafteds, than other positions. This is exactly what the Knicks accomplished. (it has nothing to do with Mike Bibby or Toney Douglas. He didn’t say ANYBODY can play competent PG. but an audition system works, and it worked well in this case).

    43. it is true that it is easiest to fill the PG role, we just somehow didn’t have any of the top 50 healthy.

    44. Owen:
      I don’t think that’s exactly what Ted was saying. And I think he might argue that Toney Douglas wasn’t actually a point guard.

      I think though that the general idea that there is much greater variation in talent level as players get taller is correct, i.e. guards are more interchangeable than other positions….

      I think another aspect to it may be that players coming out of college/high school are noticed for their scoring ability/athleticism. Good point guards don’t really need either, so more of them slip through (while the Walls, Roses, and Marburys get the draft attention). Furthermore, it’s been demonstrated that championship teams not only don’t require an athletic, scoring point guard, but almost all of the champions of the past 20 years specifically don’t have such a player, instead having serviceable distributors who pass and defend well while others do the scoring. (I think that Billups, Kidd, and Kenny Smith are the only lottery selected PGs with rings as starters, no?)

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