Knicks Morning News (Wednesday, Mar 07 2012)

  • [New York Daily News] D’Antoni: Tyson is the center of attention (Wed, 07 Mar 2012 07:28:12 GMT)

    Tyson Chandler has been called a lot of things in his career; talented, injury-prone, a gentleman. But the best? Maybe when he was a high school senior in Los Angeles, but never in the NBA. Until now, that is.

  • [New York Daily News] Melo looks lost as Linsanity takes a hit (Wed, 07 Mar 2012 07:16:29 GMT)

    Jason Kidd whined about the officiating Monday night after a loss to the Thunder and then decided to take matters in his own hands a night later.

  • [New York Daily News] Melo struggles as Dallas does in Knicks, 95-85 (Wed, 07 Mar 2012 06:40:36 GMT)

    The Knicks comeback came with Carmelo Anthony on the bench and the Mavs comeback came with Anthony on the floor. Melo was invisible when he was visible.

  • [New York Daily News] It all started in the summer for Jeremy (Wed, 07 Mar 2012 02:47:20 GMT)

    Jeremy Lin’s NBA story didn’t begin with his 38-point performance against Kobe Bryant and the Los Angeles Lakers. That’s just when Lin became an international phenomenon.

  • [New York Times] Mavericks 95, Knicks 85: Knicks Again Lose That Winning Feeling (Wed, 07 Mar 2012 06:47:19 GMT)

    Tyson Chandler got his championship ring, Amar’e Stoudemire found his stride and the Knicks staged a fourth-quarter rally, but the night ended with another loss and concerns about Carmelo Anthony.

  • [New York Times] In Tyson Chandler, Knicks Gain Wisdom of a Champion (Wed, 07 Mar 2012 05:24:06 GMT)

    Tyson Chandler was presented with his 2011 championship ring before the Knicks faced his former Maverick teammates on Tuesday night in Dallas.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Roundup: N.B.A. Roundup: James and Bosh Help Heat Top Nets (Wed, 07 Mar 2012 06:30:08 GMT)

    LeBron James scored 21 points and Chris Bosh added 20 as the Miami Heat snapped a two-game slide by rolling past the visiting Nets.

  • [New York Times] Mavs Restrain ‘Linsanity’ to Rally Past Knicks (Wed, 07 Mar 2012 06:46:05 GMT)

    Dirk Nowitzki led the Dallas Mavericks to a revenge 95-85 victory over the New York Knicks on Tuesday as the “Linsanity” frenzy showed further signs of fizzling out.

  • [New York Times] Mavs Restrain ‘Linsanity’ to Record Revenge Win Over Knicks (Wed, 07 Mar 2012 04:45:32 GMT)

    Dirk Nowitzki led the Dallas Mavericks to a revenge 95-85 victory over the New York Knicks on Tuesday as the “Linsanity” frenzy showed further signs of fizzling out.

  • [New York Times] Nowitzki Has 28 for Mavs in 95-85 Win Over Knicks (Wed, 07 Mar 2012 05:36:01 GMT)

    Dirk Nowitzki scored 28 points and bailed out the Mavericks after they lost the lead following a 7½-minute scoreless stretch to start the fourth quarter, and Dallas beat the New York Knicks 95-85 on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Pistons Overcome Bryant, Beat Lakers 88-85 in OT (Wed, 07 Mar 2012 03:48:21 GMT)

    Rodney Stuckey scored 34 points, and the Detroit Pistons overcame a tying shot by Kobe Bryant at the end of regulation Tuesday night, beating the Los Angeles Lakers 88-85 in overtime.

  • [New York Times] Celtics Awaken in Time to Beat Rockets 97-92 in OT (Wed, 07 Mar 2012 03:41:42 GMT)

    Kevin Garnett grabbed 13 rebounds to pass Shaquille O’Neal and move into 12th on the NBA’s career list, and Paul Pierce scored seven of his 30 points in overtime on Tuesday night to lead the Boston Celtics to a 97-92 victory over the Houston Rockets.

  • [New York Times] Flyers Top Short-Handed Red Wings 3-2 (Wed, 07 Mar 2012 04:44:34 GMT)

    Claude Giroux, Jakub Voracek, and Max Talbot scored goals to lead the Philadelphia Flyers to a 3-2 win over the Detroit Red Wings on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Heat Roll Past Nets, 108-78, End Two-Game Slide (Wed, 07 Mar 2012 03:02:56 GMT)

    LeBron James scored 21 points and capped his night by banking in a halfcourt shot, Chris Bosh added 20 points and the Miami Heat snapped a two-game slide by rolling past the New Jersey Nets 108-78 on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Hawks Beat Pacers for Third Straight Victory (Wed, 07 Mar 2012 03:17:44 GMT)

    Josh Smith had 27 points and nine rebounds, leading the Atlanta Hawks to their third straight victory, 101-96 over the Indiana Pacers on Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Maggette Scores 29 as Bobcats Dump Magic 100-84 (Wed, 07 Mar 2012 03:09:08 GMT)

    Corey Maggette scored a season-high 29 points, Gerald Henderson hit some big shots in the fourth quarter, and the Charlotte Bobcats overcame a 20-point, first-half deficit to beat the Orlando Magic 100-84 Tuesday night.

  • [New York Times] Sacramento Approves Arena Plan to Keep Kings (Wed, 07 Mar 2012 07:20:23 GMT)

    The only place the Sacramento Kings are moving to is a new downtown home in California’s capital.

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    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    147 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (Wednesday, Mar 07 2012)”

    1. Lets keep Trading guys. Lets get a few more hot names from around the league, they all wanna play here, they dont do it for the money, Landry is struggling now lets take him to the woodshed with Douglas, then everyone will love whos left and Ball hard in fear of losing their spot. Thats how u do it, Get the guys the stats say are great and let the chaos theory just work out simply. Chemistry and Effort and being hell bent on not leaving your man behind have shit to do with anything. Talent makes you wait for the bailout, Flow makes you wanna bail that guy you care about out. Im just stupid.

    2. SangaD:
      Lets keep Trading guys. Lets get a few more hot names from around the league, they all wanna play here, they dont do it for the money, Landry is struggling now lets take him to the woodshed with Douglas, then everyone will love whos left and Ball hard in fear of losing their spot. Thats how u do it, Get the guys the stats say are great and let the chaos theory just work out simply. Chemistry and Effort and being hell bent on not leaving your man behind have shit to do with anything. Talent makes you wait for the bailout, Flow makes you wanna bail that guy you care about out. Im just stupid.

      such a good point, we should have stuck with Douglas and Walker and Bibby. amazing you’re not a NBA GM…

    3. The eruption of negativity after every loss is just mind boggling. We lost to the NBA champs on their floor (who btw were feeling exceedingly ornery after losing the night before to OKC) Not to say we played well, Melo was awful, JR was bad, turnovers, etc. etc. but we were up 1 and in a position to steal one in the 4th quarter on a night when our best scorer was putting up bricks.

      The problem for the Knicks is that the hole they dug earlier in the season losing to awful teams at home leaves them no margin for error in terms of getting out of the 8th spot. Philly started like gangbusters and is in a pretty serious slump, but still 22-17. So just winning the games you’re supposed to win may not be enough to avoid Miami or Chicago in the 1st round.

    4. d-mar:
      The eruption of negativity after every loss is just mind boggling. We lost to the NBA champs on their floor (who btw were feeling exceedingly ornery after losing the night before to OKC) Not to say we played well, Melo was awful, JR was bad, turnovers, etc. etc. but we were up 1 and in a position to steal one in the 4th quarter on a night when our best scorer was putting up bricks.

      The problem for the Knicks is that the hole they dug earlier in the season losing to awful teams at home leaves them no margin for error in terms of getting out of the 8th spot. Philly started like gangbusters and is in a pretty serious slump, but still 22-17. So just winning the games you’re supposed to win may not be enough to avoid Miami or Chicago in the 1st round.

      Absolutely correct. In fact, I wish we would rest Chandler for a few games, especially with Jorts back. I hate it when his TS% dips below .700.

    5. I can´t speak for all, obviously, but I think our collective negativity stems from pent-up frustration with so-called “moral” victories (like the 15 times we lost to boston the past 2 seasons in games we ought to have won) and just all the excuses leveled to justify very mediocre play and what has been a very underachieving team throughout this season.

      Someone has to lead this team…the lack of leadership is really the problem…it won´t come from the coach, that much is apparent, who doesn´t even call timeout to stanch a 14-0 spurt by the opposing team and allows undisciplined play. It won´t come from Melo, who loafs throughout some games and sometimes seems uninterested in playing the game of basketball from what I have seen of late. It might come from STAT, as he was an excellent leader most of last season but has taken a step back since the Melo trade. It could and should come from Tyson…he has already emerged as a vocal leader, but he probably needs to do more, evidently. Lin is too young and green to be a leader..and the same can be said for the rest of the squad…maybe Baron Davis could be a leader, but I doubt it.

      Either way, they need someone or some players to emerge to help the team weather adversity…when things go wrong in games for Knicks, they seem to snowball. Amare stepped up last season when they were 3-8 to start 2010-2011…I think maybe he needs to reassert himself…as much as Melo claims this is his team, he doesn´t act like it.

    6. Here’s some Melo-bait: “I think anytime you go from the early part of the season, just having the ball and me just having the ball and being the distributor, and now just running the wings and waiting for the ball to come to me, that’s quite an adjustment for myself.”

    7. DAL was hardly “feeling exceedingly ornery”, they looked exhausted and played pretty badly for the most part.

      the negativity primarily comes from 40 years without a title, the longer the drought, the less patience the fan base has and the more they expect things to inevitably go wrong in one way or another.

    8. d-mar:
      The eruption of negativity after every loss is just mind boggling. We lost to the NBA champs on their floor (who btw were feeling exceedingly ornery after losing the night before to OKC) Not to say we played well, Melo was awful, JR was bad, turnovers, etc. etc. but we were up 1 and in a position to steal one in the 4th quarter on a night when our best scorer was putting up bricks.

      Enough with your “pragmatism” and “emotional levelheadedness”! LET’S MURDER IN COLD BLOOD EVERYONE WHO DIDN’T PLAY WELL AND DANCE UPON THEIR GRAVES!!! Then let’s flagellate ourselves and commit ritual mass suicide and talk about rooting for Denver or Philadelphia again but not do anything about it.

    9. I never thought I’d be saying this, but they may need to run more iso stuff for Melo, or at least run plays to get him the ball rather than just counting on him getting the ball in the middle of the continuity offense. He’s clearly frustrated with not getting his touches, and whether it’s that, or an inability to get going without enough looks early he just hasn’t been the same guy. Regardless of what you think about how good he actually is the Knicks clearly need to get him back to at least playing at his previous level if they’re going to do anything.

      For example, last night Dirk was struggling, so rather than run their regular offense out of halftime the Mavs came out and posted Dirk four straight times for four straight shots. Once he gets going a little they then go back to running more of their normal stuff, but Dirk is both engaged (because he’s getting his shots) and is a useful cog in the offense, ending with 13 points in the quarter. Melo was in a similar situation – had a rough 1st quarter shooting the ball although he took mostly good shots, but the Knicks made no effort to get him going in the 2nd half – His 1st shot of the quarter didn’t come until 5:13 remained and he only had 2 shots(1 off an offensive rebound) in the quarter. The team as a whole seems to lack the understanding of how to get Melo going and that’s part of the reason he’s struggling.

    10. d-mar: The problem for the Knicks is that the hole they dug earlier in the season losing to awful teams at home leaves them no margin for error in terms of getting out of the 8th spot. P…

      That’s a big part of the problem.
      But, they also do that in the games. Dig holes they can’t get out of. Also, they lose a lot of winnable games against good teams. If you going to call yourself a good team, you need to be able to close when you’re ahead in the fourth.

    11. It doesn’t really seem like only making inflaming comments about how much other people’s comments annoy you shows very much pragmatism or emotional levelheadedness. And couldn’t your advice for Knicks fans (“If the team annoys you so much go watch another team”) be equally applied to yourself (“If this site annoys you so much go read another site”)?

      Doug: Enough with your “pragmatism” and “emotional levelheadedness”! LET’S MURDERIN COLD BLOOD EVERYONE WHO DIDN’T PLAY WELL AND DANCE UPON THEIR GRAVES!!! Then let’s flagellate ourselves and commit ritual mass suicide and talk about rooting for Denver or Philadelphia again but not do anything about it.

    12. the site doesnt annoy me. the knicks losing doesnt annoy me. ive been on this knick train from diapers to jeans to suits, Im well adjusted to losing. My dad once said when you lose you learn something when you win you get a jersey. Im fine with every loss. What annoys me is the lack of commitment to the TEAM, THE WHOLE TEAM, EVERY PART OF IT, by not working through the losses towards the wins. Were so desperate to win we forget the process. TRADES and switching up this and that on an obviously very talented roster just makes the equation harder to solve. Let the fucking guys develop TOGETHER.

    13. Melo goes from “doesn’t care about basketball” to “diva who demands touches and stops the offense” faster than JR Smith posts instagram photos.

    14. BTW Billy Walker is an excellent part in this engine. His ATTITUDE is ….. not carmelo’s. Talent ……..

    15. I’m with SangaD here. Knee-jerk reactions to trade players got the Knicks in this mess in the first place. Unless you can secure all-time talent like a Dwight Howard, trades shouldn’t be considered. Let the team develop and figure itself out. Keep the coach and show loyalty. This team shouldn’t have been expected to challenge in the playoffs anyways. The Celtics’ window for contention is shorter than ours. How long can Philly continue to hold the division? If this team stayed largely the same through next season it wouldn’t be unrealistc for the Knicks to win the division and clinch a top 4 seed. Which is fantastic.

    16. BTW, Doc Rivers is playing a dangerous game riding his starters like he is. The last 2 games the big 4 have averaged well over 40 minutes each (granted they were both OT victories) It’s obvious he has no confidence in his awful bench, and just like the Knicks they know they need to grab every win to get out of the 7-8 spot, but I can’t imagine how this won’t bite them in the long run.

    17. If Carmelo is really healthy then I don’t know what the problem could be. But in my opinion, his jump has been a couple of inches shorter than it should be. I’m not certain if his groin injury is still bothering him but if it is, it’s really annoying that he’s not admitting. If it really is the problem, I just want him to say it to the coach and let him rest. Injured on the court missing open jump shots and laying it up when you’re supposed to be dunking isn’t helping.

      I have to say I didn’t think Amar’e had it in him to play like he did last night. If he can keep this up then I don’t think we’ll really have to worry about him. For this year at least.

      In terms of trades, if it’s not LeBron, Wade, Rose, Howard etc. Stop. I don’t think we’ll improve much if at all acquiring lesser players than the top tier.

    18. The knicks have plenty of talent. They start games flat and unfocused, they play undisciplined, and make a lot of mistakes using the clock.

    19. Owen: I think the more appropriate attitude after the last 7 years is a combination of bile and jaundice.

      Might I humbly propose a new look uniform, with “bile and jaundice” replacing orange and blue as the official team colors?

    20. hoolahoop:
      The knicks have plenty of talent. They start games flat and unfocused, they play undisciplined, and make a lot of mistakes using the clock.

      yep.

      Caleb (whose opinions I may respect more than anyone else here) always talks about how coaches don’t matter much, but I think it depends a lot on the situation. if it’s clear who your best players are, if you have an obvious pecking order in talent, then I agree the coach doesn’t matter too much.

      but in a situation like NY has right now, 10 or 11 viable rotation players, each with their flaws and strengths, I think a good coach is crucial, and D’Antoni has shown me nothing to prove that he is up to the challenge.

    21. Honestly, reading some of these comments make me wonder if some people just don’t watch other teams. Even though Miami and Chicago are clear cut better teams than us, they had struggles early in the season last year (both started 9-8) both had trouble closing against good teams, both had trouble getting all their players rolling at once. Last year Miami did not win unless the Big 3 did great. Now they’re winning with 1 or 2 of them injured. Chicago hasn’t even needed Derrick Rose. Continuity matters guys. Lin and Shumpert still have significant room for improvement just from being young (look at OKC, specifically Harden, these past few years), and if Melo, Stoudemire, and JR get back to their career levels (seriously, if they played like they did last year this team would be fantastic).

      One serious basketball issue this team is starting to have, however, is that Lin is worse about hero ball than Melo and Stoudemire combined. Seriously, a point guard should not have Amar’e’s passing vision and driving tendencies. He’s been leaving 5-10 points on the table against the past few great defenses, and that’s without counting the pathetic turnovers. So many missed open shooters or cutting big men… and of course D’Antoni acts like he’s Steve Nash and gives him the ball to create ever time instead of letting Melo do it now that we finally have proper spacing. If you’re going to play Melo like he’s freaking Shawn Marion, go ahead and just trade him, I guarantee another team will give up solid assets to get him (as a Rockets fan, getting Melo below market value would be incredible)

    22. new bile and jaundice team t-shirts, perhaps??? Shall we start designing them?

    23. What has been made clear to me about Miami is that the most vital cog (obviously not the best player nor the most valuable) in their system that makes them elite is Bosh, since he is the only real big man of the Big 3 and doesn´t have a duplicative skill set with Wade or Lebron. When either LBJ or Wade is out, they seem to play just as well, but when Bosh goes down they immediately lose 2 games…their record this year has been sterling without Wade and with Lebron, but I don´t think it would be the same if Bosh were out for an extended period of time…they seem pretty ordinary and beatable without him from what I have seen.

    24. Trade Carmelo to Charlotte for Diaw, Maggette, and the Bobcats’ #1.

      MJ loves Carmelo’s superstar and Jumpman 23 credentials. We love Anthony Davis, his unibrow, and not even taking a step back in the short-term. Lala Vazquez hates North Carolina. Dolan grins and bears Lin as his only marketable player for now.

    25. If they really want to make a run for it THIS season, they should try to pull off the following deals (and I normally don´t advocate flippantly breaking things up):

      Melo and Tyson for Howard and Turkoglu.
      STAT for Iguadala.
      Lin for Nash

    26. I think we need to borrow the baseball disclaimer “Your Trade Proposal Sucks”, or “YTPS.”

      I am not referring to anyone in particular. I’m guilty of this too.

    27. Let’s have some more patience with the team. I know the season is way past the halfway point but this is not a normal year between the lockout and multiple waves of new players joining the team. The good news is that we are very competitive with good teams even when playing on their turf. The bad news is we still haven’t figured out how to win those games. But correct me if I’m wrong, records in close games end up being sort of random, so hopefully these will start to turn around for us.

      I think the hardest part, as jon abbey alluded to above, is figuring out the rotations. It’s easy when you have 8 guys that are good, but when you have 11, figuring out the combos is tough.

      I will feel immeasurably better if we can somehow win 2 out of the next 3 though.

    28. When Melo and Lin came back to the floor with few minutes left in the game clock , it was virtually a tie game then the Mavs pulled away. I’m not liking the Lin-Melo combo , I don’t think there’s good chemistry in the past few games I watched them play.

    29. @30 – If that is Orlando’s best offer, it sort of makes a lot of sense for both teams. Anthony, Ryan Anderson, and Chandler is a pretty good, young front court. When Nelson, Duhon, and Richardson come off the books they’d have some room to add some more talent. Sounds better than rebuilding around Anderson to me… and I think the Knicks would have to do it.

      Not sure Philly wants Amar’e. They can still amnesty Brand in the offseason and make a home run signing.

      Nash for Lin is interesting. IMHO, if Nash is essentially an escalated version of Lin -even a highly escalated one, I’m not sure he gives us what we need to get over the hump and it would not be worth sacrificing a 23 year-old point in the process.

    30. Side note: I am looking forward to the point in this season where I can say with the utmost confidence “we are a better team than the Minnesota Timberwolves.”

    31. The problem is during that 7-game winning streak we were also close on the road playing against bad to mediocre teams…just as we could have easily won the Boston and Dallas games last night, we easily could/should have lost games on the road to Minnesota and Toronto.

    32. Like I have always said Mike D’antoni pays no attention to detail.

      hoolahoop:
      The knicks have plenty of talent. They start games flat and unfocused, they play undisciplined, and make a lot of mistakes using the clock.

    33. Co-Sign. I have always said this, you can’t win in Dantoni’s offense if your number, one option which by defau is the pg happens to be a guy who just walked outta of the d-league a couple of days ago. D’antonis coaching philosophy is simple, give me an elite pg (Nash,Paul,Rondo,Rose, Williams) and a bunch of role players and we can do some damage. He is not adaptive or has he ever been. LIN denying melo the ball last night was not the first, it happened in the Cavs game as well. Its as if someone told him not to pass it to Melo in iso. Plus the guy doesn’t even see the floor that well. I would love to revisit that Lin pg comparison that we had a few weeks back. Look at what he is now.

      Juany8:

      Seriously, a point guard should not have Amar’e’s passing vision and driving tendencies. He’s been leaving 5-10 points on the table against the past few great defenses, and that’s without counting the pathetic turnovers. So many missed open shooters or cutting big men… and of course D’Antoni acts like he’s Steve Nash and gives him the ball to create ever time instead of letting Melo do it now that we finally have proper spacing. If you’re going to play Melo like he’s freaking Shawn Marion, go ahead and just trade him, I guarantee another team will give up solid assets to get him (as a Rockets fan, getting Melo below market value would be incredible)

    34. If the bottom line is that the coach doesn’t suit the players well then ultimately the coach needs to be changed (since that’s much easier than changing the players). I think people who say we have as much talent as anyone are a little deluded but we certainly have enough to be higher than 8th in the East and above .500. What coach and what type of system would be best if and when the Knicks do decide to change coaches?

      Gideon Zaga:
      Co-Sign. I have always said this, you can’t win in Dantoni’s offense if your number, one option which by defau is the pg happens to be a guy who just walked outta of the d-league a couple of days ago. D’antonis coaching philosophy is simple, give me an elite pg (Nash,Paul,Rondo,Rose, Williams) and a bunch of role players and we can do some damage. He is not adaptive or has he ever been. LIN denying melo the ball last night was not the first, it happened in the Cavs game as well. Its as if someone told him not to pass it to Melo in iso. Plus the guy doesn’t even see the floor that well. I would love to revisit that Lin pg comparison that we had a few weeks back. Look at what he is now.

    35. Unfortunately it looks like we’re all ignoring the writing on the wall. Melo is the best player on a team where he doesn’t fit or isnt’t the number one option. Same thing happened to Amare and even got worse as he was being waived off pick and rolls like a bum who happened to be known as the best pnr big man. Truth is all ther other 29 teams focus their offense on the skill sets of their best players, there is no question who the number one option is on offense. Say what you want about ball movement basketball and how fun it is, Jordan and Kobe , Lebron and Wade and even Gallo in Denver all stand out as the best players on their team’s ball movement oriented offenses. There is a pecking order in the NBA, whether you like it or not the NBA is india. The best players carry their teams on most nights. And if you cant cater your offense to maximize the skillsets of your best players then I am sorry you cant keep your job. Dantoni will be fired and I think its the right thing to do unless you trade Carmelo Anthony for Deron Williams which is also a good decision.

    36. jon abbey: Caleb (whose opinions I may respect more than anyone else here) always talks about how coaches don’t matter much,

      Tell that to Phil Jackson, Pops or Doc when they’re negotiating their contract. You’d be talking to an empty seat in a NY minute.

    37. Or bottom line: if your players aren’t as good as you think they are, no coach is going to make them “reach their potential.” Not even Phil Jackson could will a deep Bulls team to win without MJ, nor could he will Kobe Bryant (supposedly the second-best SG of all-time, which is malarkey) to win without Shaq or Pau/Bynum.

      At some point, everyone’s going to have to stop questioning whether the coach is the right fit or the role players are skilled enough and start pointing the finger at the two guys making 60% of this team’s cap money.

      Maybe not for a while, but it’s going to happen at some point.

    38. hoolahoop: Tell that to Phil Jackson, Pops or Doc when they’re negotiating their contract. You’d be talking to an empty seat in a NY minute.

      Actually, you wouldn’t tell that to Phil Jackson or Popovich because they’re the two coaches who seem to have the greatest impact (or deviation from expected performance) on the players they coach.

      Most coaches don’t affect player production. Jackson and Pop do. You wouldn’t say that coaches tend to not have an effect because you wouldn’t want them to be aware that, statistically, they are two of the best coaches in NBA history.

      And Doc Rivers? Come on. Dude was gifted two All-NBA players near the end of their prime and won a title. You remember how bad of a team he had before the new players came in? Let’s not use a faulty causal argument because he won a won a couple championships.

    39. Ultimately I think inserting BD into the starting line up to play with Melo will be a quick fix. I think what happens on the floor most of the time is absent of coaching. Players will do what they want to do and as long as it works coaches won’t complain. BD is aveteran who understands how the NBA works and how important it is to get the ball to star players in their hot zones. Lin just listens to MDA and is hell bent on pleasing him since he knows his success is tied to the system. Look at how Billups occhestrated the offense last year, all he did was control pace, break his man down in iso and get the ball to the stars in their right spots. There wasn’t much of MDA pick and rolls. Whoever has the ball at the point is crucial in this game.

      thenamestsam:
      If the bottom line is that the coach doesn’t suit the players well then ultimately the coach needs to be changed (since that’s much easier than changing the players). I think people who say we have as much talent as anyone are a little deluded but we certainly have enough to be higher than 8th in the East and above .500. What coach and what type of system would be best if and when the Knicks do decide to change coaches?

    40. Lin regularly waves off or ignores Amare’s pnr’s leaving Amare flapping his arms under the basket with no one on him. He misses wide open bigs all the time.
      He’s still learning, but the knicks don’t have the luxury of time. They need to get it together or this is going to be another season of excuses and disappointments.
      Barons going to eventually be getting more minutes than Lin (and Lin may welcome that), but it’s too bad he looks to shoot so much. His vision and basketball instincts are excellent.

    41. The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      Or bottom line: if your players aren’t as good as you think they are, no coach is going to make them “reach their potential.” Not even Phil Jackson could will a deep Bulls team to win without MJ, nor could he will Kobe Bryant (supposedly the second-best SG of all-time, which is malarkey) to win without Shaq or Pau/Bynum.

      At some point, everyone’s going to have to stop questioning whether the coach is the right fit or the role players are skilled enough and start pointing the finger at the two guys making 60% of this team’s cap money.

      Maybe not for a while, but it’s going to happen at some point.

      Do you think the knicks have a lot of talent or not? Do you think if the team played high b-ball IQ, they would do well? Or do you think Melo Stat TC etc are just big names with no special talent?

    42. Yeah right, what about that one season when Jordan first retired, they still made the playoffs with Pippen and the rest of the gang and were very successful weren’t they?? Coaching really matters as much players do. Not every coach is given 5 all stars on their team. You have to work with what you’re given. Same reason I admire Karl and McMillan and not one trick pony’s like Dantoni.

      The Honorable Cock Jowles:
      Or bottom line: if your players aren’t as good as you think they are, no coach is going to make them “reach their potential.” Not even Phil Jackson could will a deep Bulls team to win without MJ, nor could he will Kobe Bryant (supposedly the second-best SG of all-time, which is malarkey)

    43. The Honorable Cock Jowles: Actually, you wouldn’t tell that to Phil Jackson or Popovich because they’re the two coaches who seem to have the greatest impact (or deviation from expected performance) on the players they coach.

      Most coaches don’t affect player production. Jackson and Pop do. You wouldn’t say that coaches tend to not have an effect because you wouldn’t want them to be aware that, statistically, they are two of the best coaches in NBA history.

      And Doc Rivers? Come on. Dude was gifted two All-NBA players near the end of their prime and won a title. You remember how bad of a team he had before the new players came in? Let’s not use a faulty causal argument because he won a won a couple championships.

      I think you’re underestimating Doc. I think Doc is one of the best. He gets his team to play unselfish and intense. Old as they are, Boston is a dangerous team to meet in the playoffs.

    44. As Lin has played more, he has slowed down. One place where this is evident is the time it takes for him to bring the ball across half court. At the start of his run, Lin was getting the ball upcourt in 4 seconds or less. Now, there are many times that he is barely beating the 8 second count. The extra few seconds makes a difference in how many offensive sets the Knicks can attempt per possession. Too many shots are being taken just to beat the 24 second clock.

      Another problem, which does not have an obvious quick solution, is that Tyson Chandler’s wrist injury has reduced his ability to receive the ball when he dives to the basket on the PnR.

      Someone pointed out that Melo seemed angry when Lin did not get him the ball in the second quarter after he had established good post position. In the same way that the PG has to reward the big man by getting him the ball when he runs on the break, the PG has to feed the big man when he does the hard work to establish the deep post.

      JR Smith has not looked good over the past five games, except when he is finishing at the rim.

      Novak was on a great run, but then he followed it with a horrendous series of decisions after the Knicks took the lead. Bad shot selection and a bad foul on Dirk erased a lot of the good.

      Best game by Amar’e in a long time.

    45. Wow – there is a lot of intense discussion here about coaching. We don’t make as many shots as the other teams. Simple. Everyone on the team is shooting poorly from the outside (besides the Dentist).

      We get good shots. We miss them. We lose. Should D’Antoni coach JR Smith not to fade away on wide open jumpers, or for Baron not to push the ball from his shoulder like a 12 year old that can’t reach?

      I am also losing faith in Lin fast. He goes 100 miles per hour all the time. He needs to understand the “pace” of the game. That will come, but I can’t imagine us competing for anything this year with a “rookie” PG and a shitload of bad shooters.

    46. Guys my problem with Dantoni is not only his offensive philosophy where isuseless without an elite pg. It’s also that he pays no attention to detail and can’t coach defense. I mean look at the Miami game, whereChandler kept overplaying Bosh’s right hand and everyone else knew that Bosh was left handed. You would think a head coach will notice little things like this and make the adjustment, but no it was the same throughout the game. How about how he manages timeouts, last night he only realised and called one after a 14-0 run, how about riding the second unit till they got tired, why not call timeouts so they can rest. I dislike his approach but his game management tendencies worry me the most. Its as if he doesn’t read the scouting report most of the time. Say what you want about Doc and Phil but those are excellent on game management and exploiting match ups. Dantoni????

    47. listen to yourself, you sound like a coach. So whose job do you think it is to correct the changes. To tel JR not to take too many fideaways, to tell Lin to avoid tunnel vision and tell Davis not to push the ball off his right shoulder. Who’s job is it???

      PC:
      Wow – there is a lot of intense discussion here about coaching. We don’t make as many shots as the other teams. Simple.Everyone on the team is shooting poorly from the outside (besides the Dentist).

      We get good shots. We miss them. We lose. Should D’Antoni coach JR Smith not to fade away on wide open jumpers, or for Baron not to push the ball from his shoulder like a 12 year old that can’t reach?

      I am also losing faith in Lin fast. He goes 100 miles per hour all the time. He needs to understand the “pace” of the game. That will come, but I can’t imagine us competing for anything this year with a “rookie” PG and a shitload of bad shooters.

    48. That’s what they paid Phil Jackson all that money for, “HEY! BOSH IS LEFTY!”

      And Phil never called timeouts during long runs.

    49. Hey fellers…been a while. I’ve been a D’antoni supporter since he got here. I don’t know about the “he’s nothing without an elite PG” argument…just about every coach in this league is nothing without talent! So i couldn’t agree more on that one. I must admit though, I’m starting to realize and lament the game management. You really do get the sense that his in-game coaching is limited to “here we go, here we go, herer we go”, “lets go, lets go, lets go” and this timeless classic..”we’ve got to pick our energy up”. I know the mavs are the defending champs and all, but i was so frustrated last night…and this D’antoni rant may be a result of that. Like i said, i’ve always had his back, but i dunno…

    50. Gideon – please explain how a new coach will turn Melo’s shitty FG% into something good. Melo is getting open looks. He can’t jump and he’s getting stuffed by the rim. Am I crazy? Don’t Melo and Amare just look like older veterans and not youthful studs? That’s D’Antoni’s fault?

      Every coach has its flaws. D’Antoni’s flaws are not the reason why were losing basketball games. The players’ flaws are the reason.

    51. Eternal OptiKnist: You really do get the sense that his in-game coaching is limited to “here we go, here we go, herer we go”, “lets go, lets go, lets go” and this timeless classic..”we’ve got to pick our energy up”.

      You’re not relying on the inside-the-huddle clips during games, are you? The producers are instructed to never show anything related to game strategy. That’s why you get only bland stuff about “energy” and “playing together.”

    52. How many times have they mic’d up Doc Rivers’ huddle and this is all we hear. “its about wanting it! if you want to win, you will! we have to play with more energy.”

      That’s what coaching a bunch of unmotivated millionaires is. This isn’t high school x’s and o’s.

    53. Your point about time getting up the court is very interesting. Is there available data on that kind of thing or is it just based on your observations? If it is true, I wonder if it is based solely on Lin tiring or on the players around him changing. The tiring explanation doesn’t make that much sense to me given that he’s actually playing fewer minutes now. The cumulative wear and tear may be affecting him somewhat, but I’d think minutes on a game by game basis would be a bigger concern. I don’t want to blame everything on Melo and Amare, but maybe part of the reason Lin doesn’t push the ball as hard is because they’re not running as hard as the guys who were playing before. There’s not much point in a PG pushing the ball hard if he’s just going to get to the front court and wait for other guys to catch up. Just a thought.

      ephus:
      As Lin has played more, he has slowed down.One place where this is evident is the time it takes for him to bring the ball across half court.At the start of his run, Lin was getting the ball upcourt in 4 seconds or less.Now, there are many times that he is barely beating the 8 second count.The extra few seconds makes a difference in how many offensive sets the Knicks can attempt per possession.Too many shots are being taken just to beat the 24 second clock.

    54. With all the practice time last week the team is still awfully out of synch. I really believe that the rhythm was good in the past with Lin Ball. Melo-Lin do not have good chemistry. Melo is an Iso player who likes to create his own opportunities. Now with the team so deep it may be possible to have a unit with Melo leading the 1st unit and a 2nd unit with Lin as the primary ball handler.

    55. Amare did look great yesterday…that was my only silver lining. I literally am praying that this is a sign of things to come and not a blip…that the weight-loss thing is for real (if it is, i will proceed to lose 15lbs and parallel park my car by lifting it into place). He just comes off as a genuine dude that his teammates enjoy playing with..he leads. I havent forgotten what he did last year…how he quietly let Melo come in and be the guy. I hope he can really regain his form…thats the biggest fear of mine..this season, but more so the years to come. I’m not a big Melo fan…i think he’s an a-hole..but i know he’s talented so I’m praying for him as well. The team will only be as successful as he and Amare are.

    56. Doug: You’re not relying on the inside-the-huddle clips during games, are you? The producers are instructed to never show anything related to game strategy. That’s why you get only bland stuff about “energy” and “playing together.”

      No, i get that and all…poor attempt at humor i guess. But don’t you just think we often come out of timeouts looking disorganized? Don’t get me wrong, i’m not blaming the coach for all our short-comings…I’m probably one of the few D’antioni supporters in here. He’s a real leader in my opinion…this team could have quit on him and they didnt..they seem to really respond to him…I thought JR’s tweet was poignant. I don’t get the sense there’s much Xs and Os going on…I know you’ve got to stick with the system and move the ball…but sometimes seems like they need some more structure. I’m ranting…i called my mom last night and blamed it on her.

    57. There hasn’t been nearly enough time given to these guys for them to work it out. Every time a piece falters, people here rush to cry for trades. I just feel like not enough patience is shown for this team or its players. Are they underperforming? Absolutely. But there aren’t significant indications that this should continue.

      Melo isn’t old. He’s had a weak season so far, but crucifying him or trading him for James Johnson isn’t the answer. STAT has been even worse, and every time he leaves the bench I get upset, but I doubt trading him away is the answer. Lin is still learning the game, and he’s a gym and film rat with great physical tools and a desire to get better. How do you expect players to ever want to play in New York when the fans refuse to support unless the team is playing extraordinary ball?

      I totally get the skepticism, but I think a winning attitude and loving fans would do wonders more than constant criticism. And this isn’t just the KB board (to which I’m a new poster) but it shows in games. As soon as the team seems like it isn’t in a position to win boos rain down and people want the roster or starting lineup immediately switched. I was never enamored with Carmelo, but the slander he gets is ridiculous at times. Honestly, the fans aren’t putting this team in the best position to be successful with the way we as a group are acting at times.

    58. Eternal OptiKnist: No, i get that and all…poor attempt at humor i guess. But don’t you just think we often come out of timeouts looking disorganized? Don’t get me wrong, i’m not blaming the coach for all our short-comings…I’m probably one of the few D’antioni supporters in here. He’s a real leader in my opinion…this team could have quit on him and they didnt..they seem to really respond to him…I thought JR’s tweet was poignant. I don’t get the sense there’s much Xs and Os going on…I know you’ve got to stick with the system and move the ball…but sometimes seems like they need some more structure. I’m ranting…i called my mom last night and blamed it on her.

      I understand what you mean. D’Antoni is a big-picture coach that seemingly waits for things to regress to the mean. I support him because I tend to be a big picture person as well. It frustrates us because he looks complacent. But there’s a lot going on that we don’t know about.

    59. Hahaha glad you’re back. Although not optimistic at all. Yeah fortunately I was never down on Amare as so many were, just thought him being constantly waved off pnr and being missed wide open affected his psyche. His last game b4 his bro died was the bulls game where he poured in 30+ points and looked beastly but he’s been awol since, and I think Linsanity had a small part to play with that. Now Melo is also suffering Linsanity as he is being waved of his post ups in good position where his most effective. He’s called the bulleyball man for a reason and was mad he couldn’t bully Marion last night. Anyhow i heard today is his son’s birthday so hopefully that cheers him up and he can get back to assaulting the Spurs. You’re also right Melo is an a-hole, but so is Jordan, Kobe, Dwade and i like them as much as the nice guys Magic, Lebron, Durant, Dwight. So each one to his own I guess.

      Eternal OptiKnist:
      Amare did look great yesterday…that was my only silver lining.I literally am praying that this is a sign of things to come and not a blip…that the weight-loss thing is for real (if it is, i will proceed to lose 15lbs and parallel park my car by lifting it into place).He just comes off as a genuine dude that his teammates enjoy playing with..he leads.I havent forgotten what he did last year…how he quietly let Melo come in and be the guy.I hope he can really regain his form…thats the biggest fear of mine..this season, but more so the years to come.I’m not a big Melo fan…i think he’s an a-hole..but i know he’s talented so I’m praying for him as well.The team will only be as successful as he and Amare are.

    60. And not enough credit is given to coaches sometimes for the jobs they do.

      The simple analysis is, “DA’s teams haven’t historically been good at defense. Therefore, DA doesn’t coach defense.”

      “DA’s Knicks haven’t executed well consistently in late game situation. Obviously DA is incapable of directing late-game plays.”

      Defense is about personnel. Obviously coaches can teach effort and positioning, but nobody is going to make David Lee and Eddy Curry protect the rim. You bring in a guy like Chandler and Shump, however, and things start to look a bit different.

      As far as the execution goes, DA’s offense is currently run by a 23 year old who has never before been a major member of a professional team, nor had to manage star teammates, and an old veteran questing for attention and respect from his team’s city. Guys break plays sometimes. Lin waves off STAT because he prefer’s Tyson’s screens. Melo calls for an isolation when he’s feeling it. Do you think DA pulling them from the game is supposed to rectify these things? Melo has been successful his whole career as a player who thrives in iso. That isn’t all he does, just something he feels confident with. Denying him that isn’t the answer.

      DA obviously makes mistakes that we can disagree with. (Not fouling up 3 against the Cs was one of mine). But calling for his head does nothing. Anyways, Red Aurbach is not walking through that door.

    61. Gideon Zaga: Hahaha glad you’re back. Although not optimistic at all. Yeah fortunately I was never down on Amare as so many were, just thought him being constantly waved off pnr and being missed wide open affected his psyche.

      :) I’ve been reading…just havent posted much. Its funny..often, i think something and then one of you writes it…i love this site! I didnt give up on him…but was admittedly scared…i’m still not changing my screen name. Do you think the Amare/Chandler paint crowding issue still exists? I haven’t hearm much talk about that in some time. I cant remember how much of his good performance last night happened with Chandler on the bench (i was chasing my son)

    62. Forget what the media is showing, if me as a fan, notices an exploit in matchup or opposing player that isn’t being utilised, then im sorry the coach is not doing his job. If i also see things that seem not to be working continually being done over and over again , then yes the coach has failed me. We dont need Doc rivers to mention to his players that Amare doesnt like fouling after he picks up one or half the quota for the quater but when you see them going to KG with Amare on him constantly we’re able to understand the MO. Rick Carlisle is a coach who never gives any soundbites but by watching his team play, youre able to deduce all the adjustments without being told.

      Eternal OptiKnist: No, i get that and all…poor attempt at humor i guess.But don’t you just think we often come out of timeouts looking disorganized?Don’t get me wrong, i’m not blaming the coach for all our short-comings…I’m probably one of the few D’antioni supporters in here.He’s a real leader in my opinion…this team could have quit on him and they didnt..they seem to really respond to him…I thought JR’s tweet was poignant.I don’t get the sense there’s much Xs and Os going on…I know you’ve got to stick with the system and move the ball…but sometimes seems like they need some more structure.I’m ranting…i called my mom last night and blamed it on her.

    63. Yeah unfortunately the paint crowding still exists but again I put this on Dantoni because we’re not the only team with this problem. The Lakers and Clippers have this problem and employ a lot of side pnr with Blake/Pau, After the pass on the roll if Bynum/Jordan’s man rotates well this will leave Bynum/Jordan open for a oop or dish. Dantoni rarely utilises side pnr but I think if Davis is inserted in the 1st unit, we’ll see more of this.

      Eternal OptiKnist: :) I’ve been reading…just havent posted much.Its funny..often, i think something and then one of you writes it…i love this site!I didnt give up on him…but was admittedly scared…i’m still not changing my screen name.Do you think the Amare/Chandler paint crowding issue still exists?I haven’t hearm much talk about that in some time.I cant remember how much of his good performance last night happened with Chandler on the bench (i was chasing my son)

    64. Hopefully Amar’e can take some momentum from last night into tonight’s game- if he’s moving like he was last night both Duncan and Blair will have a hard time staying in front of him. As bad as his year has been, he’s actually finishing at the rim better than he did last year. Also, his pnr ppp numbers are now pretty close to Chandlers- 1.15 for Amar’e (15th in the league), 1.19 for Chandler (14th in the league). With Chandler’s wrist banged up I think you have to make Amar’e the first option on the pnr- he’s still pretty good at it and it sure as heck beats having him launch 6 20 footers a game. And it leaves Chandler free to crash the offensive glass. Of course it’s contingent on Amar’e moving like he did last night- I think he had a two week stretch before his brother died where he looked like the Amar’e from last year and then regressed back to where he was, now it looks like he has his legs again.

    65. As long as nobody is hitting a shot from beyond 12′ the paint will be crowded.

      Bit disappointing that despite the long stretch of practice they haven’t figured out how to deal with the high trap they set for Lin. He’s now anticipating it and picking up his dribble before it happens – then the play stops. How about a nice hard Garnet pick instead of the matador high pnr???

    66. kram:

      Bit disappointing that despite the long stretch of practice they haven’t figured out how to deal with the high trap they set for Lin.He’s now anticipating it and picking up his dribble before it happens – then the play stops.How about a nice hard Garnet pick instead of the matador high pnr???

      Problem is Garnett can set that hard pick because he isn’t rolling- he wants to pop out and take an 18 footer. Chandler can’t do that and Amar’e shouldn’t. Maybe use Melo as a screener a little more or Novak when he’s in. I also think Lin has to make quicker decisions getting out of the trap- see it, move the ball, and quickly reset. Keep the defenders constantly moving and things will open up. Stopping dead in your tracks and staring at the defense (as both Lin and Davis did repeatedly last night) gets you nowhere.

    67. Melo has a sub-.500 TS%. He has flat-out SUCKED. I’m a Cuse grad and have been pulling for Melo in a big way but it’s time to be honest: he has been a bust. I’m not real hopeful about him turning it around.

    68. Anyone have ESPN Insider? Hollinger has an article out Trade Targets and there is a photo of TD.

      Wonder what team is targeting TD?

    69. jon abbey: yep.

      Caleb (whose opinions I may respect more than anyone else here)…

      Thanks! From a tough audience..

      jon abbey: yep.

      …always talks about how coaches don’t matter much, but I think it depends a lot on the situation. if it’s clear who your best players are, if you have an obvious pecking order in talent, then I agree the coach doesn’t matter too much.

      but in a situation like NY has right now, 10 or 11 viable rotation players, each with their flaws and strengths, I think a good coach is crucial, and D’Antoni has shown me nothing to prove that he is up to the challenge.

      I would agree that the job is tougher right now, because there are 11 or 12 or 13 viable players, so picking the 8 or 9 rotation guys and allocating playing time is not a no-brainer. but I don’t think he’s doing a bad job. I think the general frustration people have with the Knicks emerges from two things: our talent is not what we were promised – whatever Carmelo and Stoudemire are, they’re not superstar level talents. And #2, most players on the roster are having terrible years, individually. Exhibit A: Amare. Exhibit B: Toney Douglas. We all knew he’d struggle running the offense, but he was a good 3-point shooter and defender for 2 years, so his catastrophic play was a shock. And no one except the rooks has outperformed expectations. Long haul, people will shift towards their typical performance, which will help, although not enough to make us a contender.

    70. TelegraphedPass:
      And not enough credit is given to coaches sometimes for the jobs they do.

      The simple analysis is, “DA’s teams haven’t historically been good at defense. Therefore, DA doesn’t coach defense.”

      ….Defense is about personnel. Obviously coaches can teach effort and positioning, but nobody is going to make David Lee and Eddy Curry protect the rim. You bring in a guy like Chandler and Shump, however, and things start to look a bit different.

      Yes, the defense rap is bogus IMO, and only comes from people who don’t understand pace of game… MDA’s Phoenix teams were middle of the pack in defensive efficiency – 13th to 16th every year – and when your key guys include Stoudemire, Nash and no big man, that ain’t bad. And this year the Knicks are a very strong defensive team.

      As for value of coaches, I don’t say they have no impact at all, just that it’s very limited once you hit a certain level (a few terrible coaches can cost their teams a lot of games, like by playing Kevin Love 20 mpg and running out Darko instead).

      GMs know this. Even the superstar coaches like Jax and Popovich only earn a little more than a player getting the mid-level exception… and only a handful of teams are willing to pay even that, teams close enough to a title that a 2- or 3-game improvement is huge.

    71. One last thing.. I agree that MDA is a pretty bad in-game coach – especially with drawing up plays, and clock management. I just don’ think those things are big impact, all told.

      His strengths seem to be player skill development, and getting guys to play hard, which has never been a problem even in these last few dispiriting years.

    72. Some guy named AlexKennedy on twitter (I think hoops world guy?) is saying that Shump is starting tonight. If true – thank the lord. that kid should be playing 30 min/game.

    73. Co-sign on the Caleb love. My pick for Knicks GM….

      Vis a vis our depth, I think there are a lot of ways to win 50 games in the NBA. But there is only one way to win 60. You have to have legit superstar production. At the end of the day, 11 guys capable of giving you league average production or slightly above isn’t going to net you that many more wins than 8, unless your coach is the kind of major genius that statistics haven’t been able to identify.

      Finally, LOVED this from true hoop, Closers Aren’t Everything. It’s a must read.

      http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post?id=38407

      Here is a wonderful quote from Robert Horry making as much sense as you would expect from a guy with seven titles….

      Robert Horry, aka Big-Shot Rob, had the chance to win games in crunch time only because ball movement brought the shot to the open shooter: him. Horry, not surprisingly, calls isolation “bad basketball,” before adding that it’s something the best coaches simply don’t use: “People always want the lead dog to take the shot. People forget you’ve got to be pretty good to be in the NBA. Even though they don’t take a lot of shots, those other players are very capable of making those shots.”

    74. The article is a general statement about players teams should be targeting rather than about any specific team targeting them. His argument about Douglas (which I agree with) is that while it’s a bust with the Knicks he still has a year left on a cheap contract. He’s decent on defense and while he hasn’t shot well this year he has in the past. Makes sense. If I was a team’s GM that needed a guard you might be able to get him for a 2nd round pick and a change of scenery might do him some good. If he starts making shots again he’s basically back to what he was the last couple years. He’s not a PG, but he’s a decent combo guard off the bench. Reasonable low risk, high(ish) reward type of move.

      KnicksFanInVA:
      Anyone have ESPN Insider? Hollinger has an article out Trade Targets and there is a photo of TD.

      Wonder what team is targeting TD?

    75. JK47: Melo has a sub-.500 TS%. He has flat-out SUCKED. I’m a Cuse grad and have been pulling for Melo in a big way but it’s time to be honest: he has been a bust. I’m not real hopeful about him turning it around.

      I don’t think “bust” is the case or even the right term. Melo’s ability to score is a proven commodity over multiple seasons. I’ll take 7-8 years of data over 0.5 years any day. Especially when so many other players in the league are well below their averages….lockout ugly! On top of his struggles, he’s got a TON of pressure on him. The expectations stemming from the infamous roster “gutting”, the early-season injuries, the ball-stopping criticism, linsanity, a move-the-ball coach. Not to mention NY’s overall expectations of success (rightfully or not) deemed deserved for having been so bad for so long. I just hope he’s not cracking..i would. Linsanity couldn’t have been worse for him, because it took most of the pressure of the coach and put it squarely on his shoulders. The MDA-bashing media has at least temporarily bought into D’antoni since Lin came on. I’ve got my reservations about Melo’s personality, but i refuse to give in and say he’s the wrong fit for the team or it won’t work out….not until the season is over. He IS talented. I used to like the boos at the Garden…but their time is over..Melo and Amare have been humbled. They are trying…support them..they’re the cornerstone of your team for the next several years. At least give them a home-court advantage.

    76. Thanks!

      thenamestsam:
      The article is a general statement about players teams should be targeting rather than about any specific team targeting them. His argument about Douglas (which I agree with) is that while it’s a bust with the Knicks he still has a year left on a cheap contract. He’s decent on defense and while he hasn’t shot well this year he has in the past. Makes sense. If I was a team’s GM that needed a guard you might be able to get him for a 2nd round pick and a change of scenery might do him some good. If he starts making shots again he’s basically back to what he was the last couple years. He’s not a PG, but he’s a decent combo guard off the bench. Reasonable low risk, high(ish) reward type of move.

    77. Eternal OptiKnist: I don’t think “bust” is the case or even the right term.Melo’s ability to score is a proven commodity over multiple seasons.I’ll take 7-8 years of data over 0.5 years any day.Especially when so many other players in the league are well below their averages….lockout ugly!On top of his struggles, he’s got a TON of pressure on him.The expectations stemming from the infamous roster “gutting”, the early-season injuries, the ball-stopping criticism, linsanity, a move-the-ball coach.Not to mention NY’s overall expectations of success (rightfully or not) deemed deserved for having been so bad for so long.I just hope he’s not cracking..i would.Linsanity couldn’t have been worse for him, because it took most of the pressure of the coach and put it squarely on his shoulders.The MDA-bashing media has at least temporarily bought into D’antoni since Lin came on.I’ve got my reservations about Melo’s personality, but i refuse to give in and say he’s the wrong fit for the team or it won’t work out….not until the season is over.He IS talented.I used to like the boos at the Garden…but their time is over..Melo and Amare have been humbled.They are trying…support them..they’re the cornerstone of your team for the next several years.At least give them a home-court advantage.

      Yeah, good luck with that.

      I have nothing to say until things change, and it will happen, hopefully sooner than later.

    78. Owen:
      Co-sign on the Caleb love. My pick for Knicks GM….

      My pick too!

      And it’s great to have Caleb and Owen back again. The Melo trade brought in a bunch of new traffic here– it’s always nice to see the old guard still preaching from the soap box!

    79. Frank:
      Some guy named AlexKennedy on twitter (I think hoops world guy?) is saying that Shump is starting tonight.If true – thank the lord. that kid should be playing 30 min/game.

      Totally co-sign. I love Landry and all, but the time has come. They’re both offensively challenged (to say the least) but every Shumpert steal has the potential to be a layup on the other end, whereas Landry is just an average defender and these days I’m not even sure what his strengths are.

    80. Eternal OptiKnist: I don’t think “bust” is the case or even the right term.Melo’s ability to score is a proven commodity over multiple seasons.I’ll take 7-8 years of data over 0.5 years any day.

      The point you miss is that his “ability to score” is not at all a proven commodity. He’s a slightly above-average shooter over his career, but at a high usage. The eye-test guys stand behind the idea that volume scoring at a marginally-efficient rate is a great thing, and that Carmelo somehow makes all of his teammates better shooters around him. The stats guys might say that there’s no way to prove that, and that popular perception is likely wrong in the case of Melo as a top 20 NBA player.

      Not a proven commodity.

    81. “Not a proven commodity.”

      League TS%
      11-12 10-11 09-10 08-09 07-08
      52.4% 54.2% 54.3% 54.4% 54%

      49.6% 55.7% 54.8% 53.2% 56.8%
      ^^^^^Carmelo Anthony ^^^^^

      Needless to say, I am also skeptical about Melo being a proven scorer. Proven shot taker for sure….

    82. d-mar: Totally co-sign. I love Landry and all, but the time has come. They’re both offensively challenged (to say the least) but every Shumpert steal has the potential to be a layup on the other end, whereas Landry is just an average defender and these days I’m not even sure what his strengths are.

      Every Shumpert steal does not have that potential. He’s a better defender, sure, but he also commits one more turnover than Fields does per 36. Turnovers and steals, in the case of Fields and Shumpert, are negligible. They’re exactly even in those categories.

      We can’t use the eye-test to say that one person’s steals are more valuable than another. If a center steals the ball, isn’t it the responsibility of his team’s guards to break as soon as they recognizes it? Thus the value of a center’s steal could be higher or lower depending on his fast, smart, and aware his teammates are.

      We don’t have the data, so there’s no point in guessing the value of an individual’s steals to satisfy our gut feeling and mishmashed memory that Shumpert is a better defender.

      If you can find me numbers, fine. If not, I’m going to call B.S.

    83. The Honorable Cock Jowles: . The eye-test guys stand behind the idea that volume scoring at a marginally-efficient rate is a great thing, and that Carmelo somehow makes all of his teammates better shooters around him.

      Not a proven commodity.

      He’s not a slightly above average shooter under certain conditions, those that SHOULD exist on this team, though I’m beginning to question Lin’s instincts and vision as a point guard.

      For the vast majority of his career, the offense has been better with him on the floor, typically in the 4-7 point range, which is obviously quite significant.

      There’s a long list of guys who put up career efficiency numbers with Melo, and a very small list of guys who had better numbers without Melo over the coure of more than one year (Amar’e,Fields, Marcus Camby and Chucky Atkins, basically) The vast majority of guys put up better than career numbers with Melo. Allen Iverson had his career years (efficiency) playing with Melo, Kenyon Martin set his career high in shooting efficiency in Denver Linas Klieza, Nene, Aflallo, Lawson, Joey Graham, Anthony Carter, Johan Petro, Renaldo Balkman, Eduardo Najera, Reggie Evans, Earl Boykins, Demarr Johnson, Greg Buckner, Andre Miller, Francisco Elson, Earl Watson, Rodney White,

      There are a few other exceptions, but many of those guys (Michael Doleac, Joe Smith, Jon Barry, were guys that played one year, were at the tail end of their career, and played limited minutes.

      Melo’s played on a ton of very average or below avg talent offensive teams, had very high usage on those teams, shot just above average, yet those offenses were pretty good, and Melo’s teammates put up some of their most efficient seasons with Melo.

      To me, it’s very hard to apply an explanation that makes sense of that that doesn’t revolve around Melo being a very positive impact…

    84. Owen:
      “Not a proven commodity.”

      League TS%
      11-1210-1109-1008-0907-08
      52.4%54.2%54.3%54.4%54%

      49.6% 55.7% 54.8% 53.2%56.8%
      ^^^^^Carmelo Anthony ^^^^^

      Needless to say, I am also skeptical about Melo being a proven scorer. Proven shot taker for sure….

      It’s kind of interesting that you didn’t post his ’06-’07 numbers or his ’05 ’06 numbers, isn’t it?

    85. So…since we have apparently too many rotation players…how about trying to unload some dead weight to someone dumb enough to give us an expiring improvement?

    86. On a related note to my last post it does seem like the Knicks might be well served by making a few smallish trades. Right now they have 12 guys who might be able to play in someone’s rotation and guys like Walker and Douglas and even Harrelson (who will get a lot of DNPs if Jeffries is healthy) might have more value to other teams. For example, while we wouldn’t trade with Boston for obvious reasons just looking at their rotation the other day there’s a chance that all 3 of those guys could help them. Moving those guys individually or as a package might make more sense than having them gather dust at the end of the bench.

    87. The Honorable Cock Jowles: If you can find me numbers, fine. If not, I’m going to call B.S.

      This is precisely the kind of statement that shouldn’t be made in a board that supposedly has higher standards. One of the most famous quotes regarding this kind of thing is from Carl Sagan: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

      It’s fair to say you don’t agree with him, that for lack of any evidence you don’t see it the same way as he does. But just because someone can’t cite you a p value off the top of their head doesn’t mean that what they say is BS. Especially when you have no data of your own to support yourself, and when d-mar is probably right – Shump probably DOES have many more steals leading to transition buckets than Fields, if only because he has way more steals than Fields. If you want to get into per-36 numbers, Shumpert averages 0.8 more steals/36 than Fields, and only 0.7 TOs more, so he is a net positive that way.

    88. There’s an obvious reason Shump is starting…engergy…MDA is sick n’ tired of the Bockers coming out flat…Shump should be able to help fix that.

    89. Looking at the roster, this team should be playing faster, and less half court, and Shump will push us in that direction.

    90. Loathing:
      There’s an obvious reason Shump is starting…engergy…MDA is sick n’ tired of the Bockers coming out flat…Shump should be able to help fix that.

      And coming out sharp would help keep the second half deficits down.

    91. Apropos of the whole Melo & Amare are to blame debate:

      It’s been my experience in life that new adventures always start off with a lot of hope. Then you run into reality, where what you envisioned of doesn’t come as easily or as quickly as you dreamed. That’s when you buckle down and push on and, eventually, make real progress.

      I believe Melo and Amare have now accepted that this is going to be a lot harder than anyone hoped. And, as a fan, I now pray that they will be capable of buckling down to do the hard work that it will take to turn this collection of talented guys into a true contender.

    92. I agree with Loathing’s sentiments. Why can’t we have Shump’s defense and energy at the beginning of the game, instead of when we’re 10 points down?

    93. Doug:
      I agree with Loathing’s sentiments. Why can’t we have Shump’s defense and energy at the beginning of the game, instead of when we’re 10 points down?

      It’s just a better fit. Lin really struggles defensively, and Fields can’t guard the majority of 2s.

      While Fields is a nice player, clearly you’re starting to see the more talented Shumprt starting to figure this NBA thing out a little bit.

    94. nice to see Shump Shump starting, I called that three games ago. on top of everything, he’s done better than any other G in getting Amare easy baskets this year.

      with Jeffries questionable tonight, Fields can get some backup F minutes, but we really need JR Smith to be JR Swish if we’re going to scare anyone in the playoffs. if Davis and Lin don’t pick it up, I think Shumpert and/or Smith should get a few PG minutes too.

    95. “It’s kind of interesting that you didn’t post his ’06-’07 numbers or his ’05 ’06 numbers, isn’t it?”

      Is it?

      06-07 05-06
      55.2 56.3 Melo
      54.1 53.5 League Average

      I just figured the last five years was enough. But there are the next two.

      You think I was trying to hide the fact that seven years ago Melo was 2.8% above league average, which is to say, about 5.25%?

      Ok, I admit it. Guilty as charged. Melo did have a great year back then, his best as a pro. I can’t deny it….

    96. The Honorable Cock Jowles: Every Shumpert steal does not have that potential. He’s a better defender, sure, but he also commits one more turnover than Fields does per 36. Turnovers and steals, in the case of Fields and Shumpert, are negligible. They’re exactly even in those categories.

      We can’t use the eye-test to say that one person’s steals are more valuable than another. If a center steals the ball, isn’t it the responsibility of his team’s guards to break as soon as they recognizes it? Thus the value of a center’s steal could be higher or lower depending on his fast, smart, and aware his teammates are.

      We don’t have the data, so there’s no point in guessing the value of an individual’s steals to satisfy our gut feeling and mishmashed memory that Shumpert is a better defender.

      If you can find me numbers, fine. If not, I’m going to call B.S.

      Come on- you really don’t think a guard getting a steal on the ball at the top of the key (or further out) with no one between him and the basket as Shumpert has done numerous times this year has a greater likelihood of turning into a fast break than say, stripping a center in the paint? Synergy just tracks turnovers, not steals but the majority of the turnovers Shumpert’s forced have been either on the ballhandler in the PNR or in isolation- both situations where the floor is generally spread and there’s maybe one person- if anyone- to beat if you make the steal. If you don’t think steals in those situations are pretty likely to result in fast breaks, you’ve never watched basketball.

    97. Owen:
      “It’s kind of interesting that you didn’t post his ’06-’07 numbers or his ’05 ’06 numbers, isn’t it?”

      Is it?

      06-07 05-06
      55.2 56.3 Melo
      54.1 53.5 League Average

      I just figured the last five years was enough. But there are the next two.

      You think I was trying to hide the fact that seven years ago Melo was 2.8% above league average, which is to say, about 5.25%?

      Ok, I admit it. Guilty as charged. Melo did have a great year back then, his best as a pro. I can’t deny it….

      Well, as of now, my arguments really aren’t holding any water so far be it from me to try to really contest what you’re saying.

      Melo sucks right now. End of story.

    98. jon abbey:
      nice to see Shump Shump starting, I called that three games ago. on top of everything, he’s done better than any other G in getting Amare easy baskets this year.

      with Jeffries questionable tonight, Fields can get some backup F minutes, but we really need JR Smith to be JR Swish if we’re going to scare anyone in the playoffs. if Davis and Lin don’t pick it up, I think Shumpert and/or Smith should get a few PG minutes too.

      It’s pretty amazing to me that JR has struggled so much, too. I never would have predicted, and there’s nothing in their recent histories that would suggest both of them struggling to this extent at the same time.

      I’ve never seen them struggle to this extent over a 5-6 game period, certainly not together. There are a ton of reasons I was optimistic about this offense, but at the very least I figured one of them would always have a decent shooting night when the other was off.

      I’m pretty sure the two have never gone a combined 3-17 in a game before, certainly not in a string of 4-5 poor shooting games.

      It’s really kind of depressing.

    99. ruruland: It’s pretty amazing to me that JR has struggled so much, too. I never would have predicted, and there’s nothing in their recent histories that would suggest both of them struggling to this extent at the same time.

      I’ve never seen them struggle to this extent over a 5-6 game period, certainly not together. There are a ton of reasons I was optimistic about this offense, but at the very least I figured one of them would always have a decent shooting night when the other was off.

      I’m pretty sure the two have never gone a combined 3-17 in a game before, certainly not in a string of 4-5 poor shooting games.

      It’s really kind of depressing.

      it is and it isn’t, it’d be depressing if it keeps going like this, but it’d be really surprising if it does. so many potential offensive weapons, hard to imagine a few of them won’t be on every game. Shumpert starting will help open up more space for Melo, I think. let’s see how he bounces back from that disaster last night, even against a tough team like SA.

    100. Owen:
      Co-sign on the Caleb love. My pick for Knicks GM….

      Vis a vis our depth, I think there are a lot of ways to win 50 games in the NBA. But there is only one way to win 60. You have to have legit superstar production. At the end of the day, 11 guys capable of giving you league average production or slightly above isn’t going to net you that many more wins than 8, unless your coach is the kind of major genius that statistics haven’t been able to identify.

      Finally, LOVED this from true hoop, Closers Aren’t Everything. It’s a must read.

      http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post?id=38407

      Here is a wonderful quote from Robert Horry making as much sense as you would expect from a guy with seven titles….

      Robert Horry, aka Big-Shot Rob, had the chance to win games in crunch time only because ball movement brought the shot to the open shooter: him. Horry, not surprisingly, calls isolation “bad basketball,” before adding that it’s something the best coaches simply don’t use: “People always want the lead dog to take the shot. People forget you’ve got to be pretty good to be in the NBA. Even though they don’t take a lot of shots, those other players are very capable of making those shots.”

      Horry seems to be a very smart guy, his b.s report with Bill Simmons was pretty nice, some nice insights (he swears Hakeem is the best center of all time, and that he was pretty underrated, for example).

      Popovich is a great example, he almost never runs isolation plays (even though Ginobili could do it really well)…

      I’m sorry, but if Melo can’t score or is frustrated by having to operate in the flow of the offense, then he really is extremely overrated and should never get paid 20 million a year.

    101. jon abbey: it is and it isn’t, it’d be depressing if it keeps going like this, but it’d be really surprising if it does. so many potential offensive weapons, hard to imagine a few of them won’t be on every game. Shumpert starting will help open up more space for Melo, I think. let’s see how he bounces back from that disaster last night, even against a tough team like SA.

      Melo’s getting good looks. No explanation, really.

    102. Frank: This is precisely the kind of statement that shouldn’t be made in a board that supposedly has higher standards.One of the most famous quotes regarding this kind of thing is from Carl Sagan: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

      It’s fair to say you don’t agree with him, that for lack of any evidence you don’t see it the same way as he does.But just because someone can’t cite you a p value off the top of their head doesn’t mean that what they say is BS. Especially when you have no data of your own to support yourself, and when d-mar is probably right – Shump probably DOES have many more steals leading to transition buckets than Fields, if only because he has way more steals than Fields.If you want to get into per-36 numbers, Shumpert averages 0.8 more steals/36 than Fields, and only 0.7 TOs more, so he is a net positive that way.

      So a 0.1 difference in net possessions makes up for Shumpert’s much lower shooting efficiency?

      You’re misrepresenting my argument. I did not say that it is impossible, only that there is not data to suggest that that conclusion is correct. Sagan would say that simply because there is no evidence of an anthropomorphic god does not mean that one cannot exist. He would also say that the absence of evidence does not suggest that one exists. It’s conjecture. That’s what I’m saying. The argument that Shumpert’s steals are significantly more valuable is conjecture. There’s no evidence aside from, “We think they’re more likely to end up in points.” Is it possible? Yes. But since Fields plays the same position, I doubt it. Even if there is a difference, it’s not likely to be statistically significant. Steals are a rarity compared to shots — which Fields is much better at making.

    103. Owen:
      Horry, not surprisingly, calls isolation “bad basketball,” before adding that it’s something the best coaches simply don’t use: “People always want the lead dog to take the shot. People forget you’ve got to be pretty good to be in the NBA. Even though they don’t take a lot of shots, those other players are very capable of making those shots.”

      My god! Horry is saying something that Dave Berri has been saying about volume shooters for years! He must be wrong.

    104. Maybe hitting bottom is a prelude to a rebound, perhaps if the first 30 or so games for Melo is that way……..

    105. The Honorable Cock Jowles: My god! Horry is saying something that Dave Berri has been saying about volume shooters for years! He must be wrong.

      Funny thing is Horry won a ton of championship and got a bunch of great looks playing alongside extremely high usage “isolation” players: Duncan, Manu, Kobe, Shaq, Hakeem. (all of these guys, regardless of how you slice it, whether it was in the post or backing out of the PNR like Manu, played a ton of isolation).

    106. Tyson Chandler and Jeffries out tonight, hope Jorts is ready to play 35+ minutes.

    107. The Honorable Cock Jowles: At some point, everyone’s going to have to stop questioning whether the coach is the right fit or the role players are skilled enough and start pointing the finger at the two guys making 60% of this team’s cap money.

      The question is, will it happen in the next 3.5 years? As long as NY keeps shifting other parts around, it can always be the role players, chemistry or coach.

      thenamestsam:
      If the bottom line is that the coach doesn’t suit the players well then ultimately the coach needs to be changed…

      The problem is the roster is mismatched. You have a small forward who appears uncomfortable unless he gets a ton of touches and some time to hold the ball. He can’t make jump shots, it appears, unless he gets a lot of isos to settle in. Then you have a system (coach), a PG, a center and a PF who thrive off a fast pace, ball movement and having good perimeter shooters. These guys struggle in the game that Melo, so far, seems to need.

      TelegraphedPass: There hasn’t been nearly enough time given to these guys for them to work it out…

      But you have to realize that the reason there have been so many changes is precisely because the team has struggled. If they had shown great promise with Billups, he’d still be here. Same goes for TD, Bibby and Shump. Every time we change 1 thing, 1 of the 2 stars falters and the team struggles. Again, like Owen continues to point out, not only are STAT and Melo overpaid, but they’re redundant. 67 games together is a lot of time to still be making excuses.

    108. jon abbey:
      Tyson Chandler and Jeffries out tonight, hope Jorts is ready to play 35+ minutes.

      If Chandler sits out tonight, given the kind of injury he has, he may need to sit out quite awhile.

    109. ruruland: If Chandler sits out tonight, given the kind of injury he has, he may need to sit out quite awhile.

      it would be around six weeks for the wrist, but they say tonight is a strained hamstring.

    110. “I’m sorry, but if Melo can’t score or is frustrated by having to operate in the flow of the offense, then he really is extremely overrated and should never get paid 20 million a year.”

      I bang on Melo but I can’t believe how badly he is playing to be honest. I thought his numbers would come in on his averages and we would be arguing about what that was worth. This is an entirely different conversation.

      You take for granted that a high usage guy can be very effective playing off the ball a little more. But it isn’t happening yet….

    111. Novak/Smith/Baron/Fields off the bench, that’s still plenty to win if they play well.

      hopefully Jerome Jordan is back for tonight’s game, or at least the next one.

    112. In order for the Knicks to excel shump , amare, melo need to make there presence known in the paint if..if your shots not fallen dnt force it take it to the rim .. Stop running thru the lane floating shots hit the damn back board , ain’t no shame In tht stop tryin to show off with pretty shot get up 30 points then start lobbin behind the bac passin to JR , shump etc.. If your down 1 u see a easy lay up dnt go for the damn three . They’ve all be sippin from the same stupid juice toney Douglas has drunk from the beginning and it looks like he sharing SMFH .. I’m out 1

    113. Shad0wF0x:
      If Carmelo is really healthy then I don’t know what the problem could be.

      am i the only one who thinks his face looks fat and he overall looks a little chunky ? have you ever seen him get 2 balls jammed back down his throat like in the first half last night at the rim?

      i realize it must be nice making 18 million and living la vida loca in nyc, but would it be too much to ask to get in game shape?

      the guy’s face is so round it looks like he is taking corticosteroids for an auto-immune problem.

    114. Also, I’d start Novak at the 4 and move Amar’e to the 5. But I guess with Shump in the starting lineup, they are going for defense #1.

    115. Melo still doesn’t seem right from the wrist issues. He’s missing lots of wide-open shots, FTs, etc. Not his only problem, but I think it is a part of it. He commits some of the dumbest fouls in creation, though.

      Amare looks a bit better. I actually thought he looked better in the Boston game than most people here did, more explosive although still a bit slow on the draw defensively.

      Splitting with teams like Dallas is OK, even the Celts loss on the road was not as bad as it could have been.

      What I find most troubling is the lack of team focus at times. The Celts play balls out for 48 minutes. We have serious issues with that, and Melo is as guilty as anyone. That pass while he was still yapping re: Matiix was symptomatic.

      Lin is steadily coming down to earth. Hopefully Baron keeps getting healthier so that we have a 35mpg option during the games in which Lin falls apart.

    116. The Honorable Cock Jowles: But since Fields plays the same position, I doubt it.

      Worth noting that they really haven’t been playing the same position. Shumpert has a played a lot of point guard and even now, when he’s been the two on offense he’s played on the ball a lot on the defensive end. He does turn the ball over more, but he’s been asked to handle the ball a lot more as well. Since Lin moved into the starting line-up and Shumpert’s played less point, his turnovers have dropped from 2.9 per 36 to 2.5 per 36, still more than Fields but not as big a difference.

    117. Will be interesting to see if they go to the pick and roll with Amare tonight with Chandler out. He needs to come up big for us to have any chance (and Melo, tonight would be the night to break out of your funk)

    118. Will be interesting to see if they go to the pick and roll with Amare tonight with Chandler out. He needs to come up big for us to have any chance (and Melo, tonight would be the night to break out of your funk)

      They simply have to with Chandler out, right?

    119. jon abbey: I’d love to see this broken down quarter by quarter, not that Fields ever sniffs the fourth quarter anymore.

      Fields has had two bad games with the unfortunate, for him, correlary that Shump has had two good games.
      So you could see D’Antoni seeking lightning in a bottle. But things on this roster can change quickly. Perhaps Shump will suddenly become a better , more efficient scorer getting starting minutes. History says he hasn’t been one to date, but I’m thrilled if he becomes one.
      The second team has been outplaying the first team. Probably was a mistake to reinsert the starters last night, especially Melo who simply wasn’t ready to play. The starters tanked the game.
      Was excited to see some explosion from Amare. Thought it was interesting that D’Antoni said Amare has lost some weight, which leaves us to infer her was too heavy. It may explain his energy and explosiveness deficit.

    120. I don’t know whether Shump is statistically better than Fields, but I sure like watching him hawk the ball more than I do watching Landry’s ugly-ass game.

    121. Have a funny feeling that Jorts is going to be the perfect front court companion for STAT.

    122. I think Landry might do a little better tonight playing the Legion of Boom second unit. The bench is a little better with transition offense which is Landry’s strength. I just hope Shump and his tenacious d weren’t the sole reason they could get out and run.

    123. At some point the offense needs to diversify. That’s either on the point guards or the staff. All we’ve seen since everyone’s come back is 4 out with Lin middle PNR. Melo has been one of the better players in the league in the PNR this year. Use some of that. Melo has always been really good in the post. Sprinkle in some of that.

      I get that Melo has been awful, but if you’ve got to try to his some of his versatility. He can play very well off the ball, as we saw prior to last night, but if that’s all he’s going to be used for then there’s really no point. Huge diminishing returns if you’re just asking him to sit in the corner all game.

      If that’s the entirety of the plan, if you can only run the same “set”, then I’ll be the first to say you’ve got to move that salary.

    124. Owen:
      “I’m sorry, but if Melo can’t score or is frustrated by having to operate in the flow of the offense, then he really is extremely overrated and should never get paid 20 million a year.”

      I bang on Melo but I can’t believe how badly he is playing to be honest. I thought his numbers would come in on his averages and we would be arguing about what that was worth. This is an entirely different conversation.

      You take for granted that a high usage guy can be very effective playing off the ball a little more. But it isn’t happening yet….

      well, that was a response to some people posting that we may need to run more isos for him…

      everyone who defends him always talk about how versatile he is, how good of a shooter he is and so on… if he’s so versatile, he should be better playing off the ball more, because he could use his arsenal of offensive skills to hurt defenses in a variety of ways.

      however, so far he hasn’t been able to do it… I don’t dispute the fact that he’s obviously very talented and very gifted, but it seems pretty clear to me that the problem isn’t athleticism or talent, it’s what’s on his head.

      I won’t go into what’s on his head, because that’s clearly all conjectural, but watching him smile after losing while having an abysmal performance makes me shudder.

    125. Anyone with NBALP needs to watch how Nash always finds guys in transition and semi-transition. I know Lin will never be Nash, but he’s been really disappointing in that regard so far. I thought that would be a big part of the team’s success.

    126. one thing I haven’t seen from D’Antoni is the idea of testing new types of lineups… for example, if Amare is playing terribly, why don’t go small with Carmelo at the 4 and Fields / J.R / Shumpert playing on the wings?

      Anthony is big enough to handle some PFs on this league, and is quicker than most.

    127. pretty sure D’Antoni did that yesterday, but with one of the PGs replacing one of the three SGs.

    128. Bruno Almeida: well, that was a response to some people posting that we may need to run more isos for him…

      everyone who defends him always talk about how versatile he is, how good of a shooter he is and so on… if he’s so versatile, he should be better playing off the ball more, because he could use his arsenal of offensive skills to hurt defenses in a variety of ways.

      however, so far he hasn’t been able to do it… I don’t dispute the fact that he’s obviously very talented and very gifted, but it seems pretty clear to me that the problem isn’t athleticism or talent, it’s what’s on his head.

      I won’t go into what’s on his head, because that’s clearly all conjectural, but watching him smile after losing while having an abysmal performance makes me shudder.

      There’s a difference between iso’ing at the 3pt line and posting defenders up. The Knicks simply didn’t have the requisite spacing nor competent enough ball-handlers prior to Lin to utilize Melo’s post-game.

      Prior to last night, Melo was doing what he typically does off the ball in good spacing situations.

      But if all you’re going to ask him to do is help spread the floor and take 10-14 shots a game off of penetration or kick-outs, there are a lot of guys who can do that decently enough who don’t get paid 10 million or more.

    129. ruruland:
      Anyone with NBALP needs to watch how Nash always finds guys in transition and semi-transition. I know Lin will never be Nash, but he’s been really disappointing in that regard so far. I thought that would be a big part of the team’s success.

      he’s incredible, every time he plays it’s a basketball lesson… Lin should be watching his tapes every single day.

    130. Bruno Almeida:
      one thing I haven’t seen from D’Antoni is the idea of testing new types of lineups… for example, if Amare is playing terribly, why don’t go small with Carmelo at the 4 and Fields / J.R / Shumpert playing on the wings?

      Anthony is big enough to handle some PFs on this league, and is quicker than most.

      They’ve played Melo at 4 the last two games, at least in short stints, primarily with JJ.

    131. I have no idea why Melo has not played the 4 here. It was something we all said they’d do but it never happened (if it happened with Jeffries recently, I don’t recall it – not saying it didn’t happen, though, of course).

    132. Bruno Almeida: he’s incredible, every time he plays it’s a basketball lesson… Lin should be watching his tapes every single day.

      He truly is amazing. Sometimes I feel like Lin is turnover-averse with his passing in transition, and he plays with blinders on when he drives.

      The great thing is that you can’t teach a guy to get into the lane as consistently as Lin does. The decision-making and awareness need to improve quite a bit, however.

    133. ruruland: There’s a difference between iso’ing at the 3pt line and posting defenders up. The Knicks simply didn’t have the requisite spacing nor competent enough ball-handlers prior to Lin to utilize Melo’s post-game.

      Prior to last night, Melo was doing what he typically does off the ball in good spacing situations.

      But if all you’re going to ask him to do is help spread the floor and take 10-14 shots a game off of penetration or kick-outs, there are a lot of guys who can do that decently enough who don’t get paid 10 million or more.

      I agree.

      I’m not saying he should play exclusively off the ball, but if he’s such a wonderful versatile scorer, I don’t see why he would need to iso a lot to be “in a groove”… it’s not a big deal if he isos some, but he’s gotta be able to contribute without the ball on his hands too.

      a player of his caliber can’t shoot under .300 from 3, while attempting more than 100 already, for example.

    134. ruruland: They’ve played Melo at 4 the last two games, at least in short stints, primarily with JJ.

      you’re right, they did it… but it was too short, I feel it could be a very effective lineup for a game like tonight’s, with Chandler being out…

      I hope we get to see a couple of Lin / Shumpert / J.R / Melo / Amare lineups tonight.

    135. Bruno Almeida: I agree.

      I’m not saying he should play exclusively off the ball, but if he’s such a wonderful versatile scorer, I don’t see why he would need to iso a lot to be “in a groove”… it’s not a big deal if he isos some, but he’s gotta be able to contribute without the ball on his hands too.

      a player of his caliber can’t shoot under .300 from 3, while attempting more than 100 already, for example.

      No question. I don’t buy that he needs to get isos to get a rhythm. That’s contrary to what he did in the only primarily off-ball situation he’s ever been immersed in, his time with Team USA. He shot very well in that role over the course of many games.

      His catch and shoot historically has never been anywhere near this bad. I can’t explain it.

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