Knicks Morning News (Wednesday, Jul 04 2012)

  • [New York Times] Deron Williams Agrees to 5-Year Deal With Nets (Wed, 04 Jul 2012 06:46:40 GMT)

    Deron Williams formally committed to a five-year deal with the Nets Tuesday evening, boosting their fortunes on and off the court as the franchise moves to Brooklyn this fall.

  • [New York Times] When It Comes to Re-Signing With Knicks, Lin and Fields Have Other Plans (Wed, 04 Jul 2012 04:50:06 GMT)

    On Tuesday, the Knicks restricted free agent Landry Fields signed an offer sheet with the Raptors while the Rockets have shown interest in Jeremy Lin.

  • [New York Times] Deron Williams Agrees to 5-Year Deal With Nets (Wed, 04 Jul 2012 06:37:17 GMT)

    Deron Williams formally committed to a five-year deal with the Nets Tuesday evening, boosting their fortunes on and off the court as the franchise moves to Brooklyn next fall.

  • [New York Times] Nets Get Busy, as Free Agency Begins (Wed, 04 Jul 2012 05:40:20 GMT)

    On a wild, whirling first day of free agency, Steve Nash emerged as the N.B.A.’s most coveted player and the Nets as the league’s most active player in trying to keep Deron Williams.

  • [New York Times] Williams Says to Re-Sign With Nets (Wed, 04 Jul 2012 05:39:29 GMT)

    Deron Williams will re-sign with the Brooklyn Nets, the point guard confirmed on his Twitter account on Tuesday, ending speculation that he would cross to the Dallas Mavericks.

  • [New York Times] AP Source: Gordon Agrees to Max Deal With Suns (Wed, 04 Jul 2012 04:24:02 GMT)

    Restricted free agent guard Eric Gordon has agreed to a four-year deal with the Phoenix Suns worth about $58 million, a person familiar with the talks told The Associated Press. The New Orleans Hornets have the right to match the deal and keep Gordon.

  • [New York Times] AP Sources: Rockets to Meet With Lin on Wednesday (Wed, 04 Jul 2012 01:39:09 GMT)

    Jeremy Lin will visit the Houston Rockets on Wednesday, two people with knowledge of the plans said, and the New York Knicks restricted free agent is expected to get a contract offer.

  • [New York Times] Deron Williams Takes Nets’ $98 Million Deal (Wed, 04 Jul 2012 02:33:11 GMT)

    Deron Williams is moving to Brooklyn with the Nets, instead of back home to Dallas.

  • [New York Daily News] On Point: Guard carousel spins around Lin (Wed, 04 Jul 2012 05:31:03 GMT)

    Jeremy Lin will meet with the Houston Rockets Wednesday and could sign an offer sheet worth close to $40 million. The Knicks, who will have the option to match any offer Lin agrees to, still believe they have a chance to keep Lin and add Steve Nash.

  • Liked it? Take a second to support Mike Kurylo on Patreon!

    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    145 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (Wednesday, Jul 04 2012)”

    1. I won’t really miss Fields, at $20 mil for 3 years, he’s easy to replace. My only regret is that we didn’t deal him earlier. That said, I wouldn’t be shocked if he becomes a pretty good MLE-type player and earns most of his contract, especially in a no-pressure situation like Toronto. He’s a smart guy and has good athleticism, if he can work on fundamentals of shooting and ball-handling, he can become a good player. Likeable high-character guy as well. At least there’s a Silverman what-could-have-been post to look forward to! :)

    2. So, It’s looking like the most likely scenario is…
      Starters:
      Amare
      Melo
      TC
      JR
      Lin
      Bench:
      Novak
      Jeffries
      Jorts
      JJ1
      JJ2
      TD
      eventually Shump
      Kidd or Felton?
      Lewis? Morrow? Prigioni?

    3. So if Lin, the biggest out-of-nowhere success story of the year, goes to a different team because of these ridiculous Gilbert Arenas contracts that are clearly employed to exploit a team’s future cap restrictions, ends up going off to play somewhere else (seriously, how much worse for the league would it be for him to be in freakin’ Houston than in New York), don’t you think the next big CBA kerfuffle will be figuring out if these types of contracts can be allowed at all? Teams seem to be using them to punitively screw their rivals out of their own players, and if the whole spirit of this new CBA is that teams have the means to resign their hometown guys instead of having to forfeit them, I’d say it’s still doing a pretty crappy job at ensuring that.

    4. James White? Really a guaranteed contract. Say it aint so. Say its just a trade chip.

    5. just a rumor right now. Maybe its a summer league spot. However maybe it is another feel good comeback story SA is known for pulling.

    6. Looks like it might be 4y/$30mil for Lin broken down into $5m/5.2m/10m/10m. That’s a no-brainer for the Knicks barring something unforeseen. Lin’s marketing value to New York in the first two years will exceed the worth of that whole contract, and it’s debatable whether $10mil would really be that much of an overpay. I mean, Landry Fields is going to make 80% of that at the same time!

      By the way, what is the Rockets’ plan here? Two poison pill offers to guys who are serious gambles when you’re talking about committing eight-figure salaries in Lin and Asik. Do they seriously think they can construct a credible roster built around Lin/Scola/Martin or will they be looking to trade one, if not all of those pieces and totally blow it up for a superstar?

    7. Both the Rockets and the Raptors are making moves based solely on marketing rather than competing (Rockets and Lin, Raptors and Nash) They’re looking at selling more tickets and increasing “buzz”, but any serious fan of either of those teams has to be really pissed, I would think. Are the Raptors going to be anywhere close to contending during the 2-3 year window that they have Nash? And a Rockets team built around Lin, Scola and Martin? Makes no sense from a purely basketball perspective, and of course, in both cases, screws the Knicks.

    8. Sounds Like Nash is giving NY time to get a deal done with PHX. That makes me think that we’ll get him and Shump will be a goner. It would depend on Novak I guess. If Woody can adequately coach, I give us a shot against MIA.

    9. So if we do that deal, including Shump, Jorts, Gadzuric and Novak, here’s the team
      STARTERS
      Nash
      JR
      Melo
      Amare
      TC
      BENCH
      Lin
      Jeffries
      Who else? TD? Jorts? Jordan?
      Sounds like a really thin team. I am souring on the Nash deal, especially if it includes Shump

    10. Shumpert must not leave. He might seriously become the next decade’s best perimeter defender, and I do not want to trade that for a player who does not guarantee an NBA title in the next two years. I’m tired of this team trading its young prospects for a “win-now” mindset that doesn’t even win now. Keep Shumpert and just sign Kidd.

    11. PS even as a living fossil, Kidd is 10X better than either Bibby or Baron were last season, and we went 18-6 with those guys, a shell of Lin and for part of the time no Amare.

    12. yehudi3000:
      damn july 12 is so fa away

      I know. I’m waiting on my Samsung Galaxy S III (long overdue switch from AT&T to Verizon) which ships the 11th. Between that and the moratorium on free agent signings, this is a long week of waiting.

    13. Other teams seem to love our role players (Phoenix wants Shump, Toronto wants Fields and everyone wants Lin), and our stars are pretty talented too. It makes me feel like the Knicks really underachieved last season

    14. Ugh. ESPN is reporting that Shump is part of the proposed Nash deal, which I guess is the only way to make it work. I feel myself rooting against the deal now. I dunno, maybe I just like Shump so much that I am blind to his flaws (shooting, finishing, b-ball IQ, etc.) it just seemed to me that he was starting to put it all together towards the end of the season. There is good reason to be concerned about his knee, as the ACL-torn meniscus combo is said to not easily lend itself to full recovery.

      If Novak and Jerome are also part of the deal, that is a lot of young depth to give away for a 38 year old with a bad back.

      Yeah, I hope it falls through.

    15. I wish we could come out of a trade for once by giving away pu pu platter. But losing Shump would leave us awfully thin at SG. Plus we’ll get torched by opposing guards with Lin and Nash in the backcourt.

    16. What a terrible move. Only the Knicks can lose their best young player while signing a free agent

      Nash no better than Melo for breaking up young nucleus so he could get paid. Forcing us to give up Shump so he can get paid more to play here.

      Good luck guarding Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, Rajon Rondo, Deron Williams, et al when you’re 40.

    17. It’s a hail Mary, but….

      Landry can’t sign Toronto offer til July 11. Now that they know their gamble failed, maybe they withdraw it and we can still use Landry. Wishful thinking.

    18. Z-man:
      Ugh. ESPN is reporting that Shump is part of the proposed Nash deal, which I guess is the only way to make it work.I feel myself rooting against the deal now…

      Woj (yahoo) seems to think it is going to happen. Nash for Shump, TD, Gadzuric. Nash would get 3/$27 mil.

      Seems like a legit trade. Give up something to get something. Not sure it’s what the Knicks SHOULD want, but in some ways it’s better than simply fleecing the more pathetic franchises of the league, which is what happens far too often in this league…

      It’s interesting that you are now rooting against the deal, though, ZMan. A few months ago, I think you were the guy saying to trade the23 year old Lin for the 38 year old Nash was a no-brainer, no? You think Shump’s value will be that much higher than Lin’s going forward?

    19. I’m depressed too. It seems like Dolan has never seen a star he doesn’t like.

      But I also think prices for mid level talent are going up. So we should just match for Lin, no matter what the offer is.

    20. So Nash’s price seems to be 3/$27 mil. Is there any way to get to that # without Shump, even if a third team is included? (ephus?)

    21. Was initially against giving up Shump (we still might not if 3rd team involved) but lineup of Nash, Lin, Melo, amare and Chandler could be one of the best ever….defense could be worst in the NBA though lol

      I’m on the win now train and I think Nash gives us a better shot of winning the chip

      KnickfaninNJ:
      I’m depressed too.It seems like Dolan has never seen a star he doesn’t like.

      But I also think prices for mid level talent are going up.So we should just match for Lin, no matter what the offer is.

    22. I want to know what JR Smith was tweeting about an hour or two ago, NY will desperately need him to come back if this Nash deal happens.

    23. jon abbey:
      I want to know what JR Smith was tweeting about an hour or two ago, NY will desperately need him to come back if this Nash deal happens.

      Playing video games and seeing the movie TED.

    24. If (when?) the Nash trade happens, where does that leave Knick $ to spend? Do they still have their exception to use? (do they still match Lin at poison-pill prices?)

      (just as I got to understand the old CBA, they had to go and totally screw with it!)

    25. I would hate to lose Shumpert, but why is everyone acting like the Knicks D is doomed without him?

      Mike Bibby, Baron Davis, and Landry Fields were three of their rotation guards last season yet on the whole the D was very good. Tyson Chandler covers for a lot of poor perimeter D.

    26. Z: Playing video games and seeing the movie TED.

      before that, this series about two hours ago:

      JR Smith ?@TheRealJRSmith

      Knocked 10 steps back so I can take 20 jumps forward! #realtalk

      JR Smith ?@TheRealJRSmith

      A lot of things done phase but this got me for sure!

      JR Smith ?@TheRealJRSmith

      Hurt!

      JR Smith ?@TheRealJRSmith

      In total shock!!!! Wow!

    27. @25 re-signed gadzuric at 3m (or novak) + douglas, jordan + jorts will get you to a 3 year, 25m contract.

      I’d take all these rumors with a grain of salt but if that kind of money is the bottom line we should be able to pull this off without shump. Which would be huge.

      Heck if phoenix thinks fields is worht 16-17m over 3, we could make that work too.

      Kincks can kick in 3m cash to cover and s+t option.

      Honestly, I wouldn’t do the deal with shump but you know how dolan negotiates. They’ll cut a deal and then he’ll add shump as a tip.

    28. If trade goes down what the heck is MDA thinking? Does he pull a Martin? “Dang dang dang.”

    29. jon abbey: before that, this series about two hours ago:

      JR Smith ?@TheRealJRSmith

      Knocked 10 steps back so I can take 20 jumps forward! #realtalk

      JR Smith ?@TheRealJRSmith

      A lot of things done phase but this got me for sure!

      JR Smith ?@TheRealJRSmith

      Hurt!

      JR Smith ?@TheRealJRSmith

      In total shock!!!! Wow!

      It’s his inner-monologue as he plays City of Souls II.

    30. yellowboy90:
      If trade goes down what the heck is MDA thinking? Does he pull a Martin? “Dang dang dang.”

      heh, maybe Woodson can hire him as an ‘offensive assistant’. :)

    31. Caleb:

      I’d take all these rumors with a grain of salt but if that kind of money is the bottom line we should be able to pull this off without shump. Which would be huge.

      Everyone on twitter seems to think it’s done. Except Beck. He says it’s still a long shot. (turns out, twitter is kind of fun. I had no idea:)

    32. @25 and 33 – point being, if nash is ok with that price, the suns don’t have a ton of leverage. Since he could realistically say screw it and walk to toronto while suns get nothing.

      Or they can give up on shump and take jorts/jordan/future 1st, etc.

      Except I know dolan doesn’t negotiate that way.

    33. If shump’s hone I’d make a bid for OJ Mayo, if he’ll take the mini-MLE to rebuild his career. Worth asking!

    34. Since presumed Nash deal puts Knicks over the Tax line (or apron, or whatever it is), is there any reason to stop there? If Dolan doesn’t care about the tax, maybe he’ll use the full MLE too. Possible?

    35. Z: Woj (yahoo) seems to think it is going to happen. Nash for Shump, TD, Gadzuric. Nash would get 3/$27 mil.Seems like a legit trade. Give up something to get something. Not sure it’s what the Knicks SHOULD want, but in some ways it’s better than simply fleecing the more pathetic franchises of the league, which is what happens far too often in this league…It’s interesting that you are now rooting against the deal, though, ZMan. A few months ago, I think you were the guy saying to trade the23 year old Lin for the 38 year old Nash was a no-brainer, no? You think Shump’s value will be that much higher than Lin’s going forward?

      Good memory, Z! Yes, I think that Nash is still way better than Lin right now and will be better for at least the next 2 years. I also think Nash-Shump is better than either Lin-Shump or Lin-Nash. I see the logic in the deal and it is not a “stupid desperation move” like e.g. the Steve Francis deal, but it would not be my preference. Obviously, the Shump knee injury makes it more logical than otherwise, but I just really like the kid.

      Also, Lin still is not a proven commodity in terms of shooting, turnovers, and durability. If we have to sign him to a $40 mill match deal, that is a super high risk move.

    36. Love Nash, but would hate to lose Shump. I’m banking on him returning without any significant physical loss and I just love his game. I think I would pass on Nash, given his age, if we had to give up on Shump Shump. I know it sounds stupid, but I have that bad Karma feeling.

    37. daJudge:
      Love Nash, but would hate to lose Shump.I’m banking on him returning without any significant physical loss and I just love his game.I think I would pass on Nash, given his age, if we had to give up on Shump Shump.I know it sounds stupid, but I have that bad Karma feeling.

      daJudge:
      I have that bad Karma feeling.

      yeah, it’s the Knicks, you should.

    38. If this deal goes through and all three of Lin, Shumpert, and Steve Nash are Knicks, I don’t think I’d really care about any other move for the rest of the off-season.

      Alex Kennedy ?@AlexKennedyNBA

      Unrestricted free agent Rashard Lewis has been in contact with the Los Angeles Lakers, New York Knicks and Miami Heat

      I’d be okay with this. Adding Rashard Lewis would allow us to run with Nash/2-Guard/Melo/Lewis/Stat for stretches of games, giving us that 4 out, 1 in game we had before Melo got here (and during Linsanity to a certain extent).

    39. I’d rather have Williams. Lewis wants 3 mill. Also, I hope White has been working on his D.

    40. Really a tough call on sending Shumpert out for Nash. As much as I love Shumpert, he probably is a minus on offense right now, and it’s no given that he will ever be better as a compete player than Tony Allen is. Allen is great, but Nash is a transcendental player who basically creates top 5 offense no matter where he goes. Can you imagine him on a team with this many finishers? It’s of course all dependent on his health, but as others have said, Shump’s return to pre injury self is not guaranteed.

      Don’t know. If we end up with Lin/Kidd/Shumpert I will be very happy. Probably can’t be anything but happy if we get Lin/Nash either. That will be a fun team to watch.

      Damn. Just when my iPad learnsto automatically turn Shump into Shumpert too!

    41. I’ve never heard of James White, but his Wikipedia page sure is thorough. I now know that White once beat Curtis Withers in the Turkish Slam Dunk contest!

    42. It’s too bad more people don’t read this board. Hello? Mr. Dolan? Please don’t be an idiot this time. I love Nash but trust the people who work for you who, like, know basketball.

      Did someone say Nash has a bad back?

    43. so I heard knicks are going after a third team to facilitate the nash trade without having to use shump can anyone explain how this would work? Would it mean that we lose our mini mle?

    44. Frank, I certainly agree that getting Nash is exciting, but I still would not do it unless I had some pretty solid pessimistic medical information re: Shump.

    45. I cant believe most of the people on this site are so against getting Nash for Iman Shumpert. SMFH

    46. danvt:
      Why is everyone so sure Lin comes back if Nash comes here?

      NY has supposedly said in some of those stories that they will match Lin’s deal no matter what.

    47. jon abbey: NY has supposedly said in some of those stories that they will match Lin’s deal no matter what.

      And they should, the next 3 years they are going to be a tax team regardless, so they need to keep every good player they can since it’s going to be harder and harder to get new ones.

    48. BigBlueAL: I cant believe most of the people on this site are so against getting Nash for Iman Shumpert. SMFH

      Without reading this blog I would have thought it was a no brainer, Al. But, the pessimists here tend to be eerily prescient. Not that it’s difficult to be pessimistic what with Dolan being behind it all. I mean, that guy probably still needs his meat cut for him.

      I mean, that’s what NYK does. Pat Ewing may have been the only foundational player I’ve ever seen that started his career here.

    49. BBA, I’m not SO against it, I just would rather not do it. If it happens, I’ll be all in on the Knicks as usual. I also thought we gave up two pieces too many for Melo, but once the deal was made, he was my guy. I just honestly think that Shump is a future all-star, and I hate to give up on him so soon. I am also a big believer in D, and he is a sensational defender.

    50. danvt: Why is everyone so sure Lin comes back if Nash comes here?

      Lin has no choice. If the Knicks want him, he stays.

    51. I understand the love for Shump, I like him alot too. But adding Nash makes this a real, legitimate 50+ win team for the first time since 2000. With Nash you can honestly entertain dreams of possibly making a run at a title.

      I mean Im fine with not getting Nash and having Lin/Kidd at PG. I would still believe that team could possibly win 50 games and possibly get to the 2nd round. But with Nash we can legitimately think about making a run at a title I believe. We certainly wont be favorites and hell even winning our division will be tough with the Nets improvement and Philly/Boston being good too but we could definitely puff our chests out a bit and dare to dream.

    52. Spree8nyk8:
      anything that causes optimism on this board gets a +1 from me

      Its getting to a point where I honestly dunno what the Knicks can realistically do to get universal optimism from this board lol

    53. I shouldve added aside from drafting a PG in the 2nd round who no team in the league wound up drafting.

    54. I’d say the team as-is – with everyone back – is a 50+ win team. Adding nash and they could make serious noise. Adding nash but losing shumpert I don’t thing moves the needle a whole lot – they wouldn’t be able to defend anyone. And in 2 years when nash retires, there’s no shump.

    55. BigBlueAL: Its getting to a point where I honestly dunno what the Knicks can realistically do to get universal optimism from this board lol

      “Fire Dolan!”

    56. Shump is an exciting player, and his upside is tantalizing.

      BUT… Nash had a .625 TS% last year and a 53.1 AST%. With Lin also on the team, we’ll have 48 minutes per night of stellar point guard play. We’ll be able to pick and roll people to death. Amar’e actually might start producing like a max contract guy. Iso’s and mid-range jumpers will be way down.

      Yes, the defense will be worse, but the offense will be worlds better. It’s not hard to imagine the Knicks with Nash as a top 5 offense, and if they can stay respectable on defense it should be a fun couple of years.

    57. BigBlueAL:
      Well thats an obvious one Z :-)

      In all seriousness, the Tyson Chandler signing even had THCJ “cautiously optimistic”

    58. BBA-I think I overvalue Shump more than many on the site. I do not see him as a one dimensional defensive player at all. I like the form on his jumper and he clearly can finish. With his age , athletic ability, work ethic, grit and basketball ability, I simply would not trade him, even for the great, great Steve Nash—at 37. Again, with the caveat that I do not have some bad medical news about his knee.

    59. Why can’t we just trade Javaris Crittenton and Kwame Brown for Pau Gasol and call it a day?

    60. James White seems like kind of an interesting signing. He seems to be a pretty good all-around player– plays a little defense, shoots okay, gets to the line, good handle– without having one standout skill, and this type of player can be undervalued.

      Could be a nice two-way bench player for us.

    61. JK47:
      James White seems like kind of an interesting signing.He seems to be a pretty good all-around player– plays a little defense, shoots okay, gets to the line, good handle– without having one standout skill, and this type of player can be undervalued.

      A rich Man’s Landry Fields?

      (I mean, not as rich as Landry Fields himself… That guy made $20,000,000 this week, but you know what I mean)

    62. Is Danny Green restricted? He’ll probably get the full MLE right? He would be a nice fit next to Nash. And Pietrus would work too.

      I get the Shump love but there’s a window for Amare and Tyson. The time to win is the next two years. Whether you like it or not, that’s reality. Nash makes the most sense. Although a Nash/healthy Shump/Melo/Amare/Tyson starting unit would be killer.

    63. can Toronto back out of this Fields offer if Nash goes elsewhere before the 11th? I’d guess that they could, just pissing off Fields and his agent and maybe other FAs in the future.

    64. Yes, and I’m in the minority but I think they will. I think it was a bluff and it was called.

      If they back out, we get to keep Shump and they get to not pay Landry 20 mil for 3 yrs. Seems like a win-win.

      But Alan Hahn reports they actually like Fields and offer wasn’t just to block us. I’d go w him.

    65. So, I felt it was worth signing up to ask if anyone else knows about what ESPN’s saying, the Rockets are gonna offer Lin a 4 year, $30,000,000 deal ($5 yr1, $5.2 yr2, as much as $10 in yrs 3-4). If we match the offer, how is that gonna affect the rest of FA for the Knicks? I know we can match it, but does that take us out of contention for Nash/Kidd?

    66. Given that Toronto isn’t a hot FA destination as it is, that kind of shenanigan would make it even harder for them to attract guys in the future. It wouldn’t just piss off Landry’s agent, but make other agents and players very wary of that front office. Nash or no, they’ve got to stick to this contract.

    67. Chris Rock getting mocked on Twitter for this brilliant tweet:

      Dear Knicks please don’t trade shumpert does anybody Remeber Trevor ariza for Stevie Francis .

    68. @79 no.

      Chris rock is right! You don’t have to think nash equals francis to agree.

      Main thing, its just bad negotiating. Based on the reports – which might not be true – nash just wants 25m. There are ways to give him 25m without shumpert. The suns should have very little say. They could bluff us and refuse to deal without shumpert, but in that case nash walks to toronto. They won’t cut off their nose to spite their face. They wouldn’t even bother trying this if it was any other team. But its dolan, so its like, come on up! Free food!”

    69. Caleb:
      @79 no.

      Chris rock is right! You don’t have to think nash equals francis to agree.

      Main thing, its just bad negotiating. Based on the reports – which might not be true – nash just wants 25m. There are ways to give him 25m without shumpert. The suns should have very little say. They could bluff us and refuse to deal without shumpert, but in that case nash walks to toronto. They won’t cut off their nose to spite their face. They wouldn’t even bother trying this if it was any other team. But its dolan, so its like, come on up! Free food!”

      No, the Suns have all the leverage here. They dont care if Nash leaves to Toronto for nothing. Why would they help the Knicks by taking only crap back?? You think the Knicks can tell them you better trade him to us because if not he leaves for nothing and you miss out on TD, Jorts and Jerome Jordan!!!

    70. While both Lin and the Knicks are hoping for a reunion, sources have told ESPN The Magazine’s Chris Broussard that if any clubs offer Lin a backloaded contract that pays him an eight-figure salary in the third and fourth years, the Knicks could be hesitant to match the offer.

      I love that bit.

      “Could be hesitant.”

      Way to commit, Broussard!

      Seriously, though, the really heinous luxury tax hits don’t start until 2015-16, by which point all the Knicks’ big contracts will be over. So I don’t see any way they pass on 4 years/$30 million for Lin.

    71. Exactly Brian, like I said last night Houston wont offer Lin 4yr/40 mil most likely in the 30-32 mil range. Knicks should match that w/o a problem I believe. Plus the 4th yr might be a player option.

    72. the big problem is lin may look at options until the 12, i belive 1 team will offer the 40 mil contract, meybe the raptors

    73. Yeah, I’ll repeat what I said in the last thread. Taking Toney is specifically the opposite of a “bonus.” He’s what you take if you have to to get something else you actually want. Earlier, that could have been Fields. Now, it’s nothing. If you look at sign and trades where a player is going to the other team anyways, the return is little (but even there, the team sending over the free agent doesn’t take on filler players, they just get back draft picks). Sign and trades where you’re helping a player get to a team he couldn’t otherwise be able to sign with, though, typically gets you something you actually want (like the Knicks and the Warriors with David Lee). The Suns are not just helping out Nash, they’re trading valuable cap space to take on guys that the Knicks won’t even miss. That usually does not happen and I don’t see it happening here, either. Now, again, if they could get Shump in such deal, it would be worth it for them.

      And, again, I’m not even saying you should include Shump if you’re the Knicks. I could see a very good case to be made for preferring to keep Shump going forward than getting Nash. I’m just saying that insisting on Shump is what the Suns should do and what they clearly have the leverage to do.

      I have little doubt that letting Nash go to Toronto for nothing is preferable to Phoenix than them taking back Toney Douglas etc.

    74. @89- that’s sort if true, except that Dolan throwing in $3M pays for Toney and adds $1M to Sarver’s pocket. And Toney is an expiring that they can use in another deal if necessary (as well as JJ/Jorts/Gadz), such as a sign and trade for Eric Gordon.

      Lots of moving parts. I used to think that anyone with half a brain could be an NBA GM but this offseason makes me think differently.

      I think we need to someone engage New Orleans in this. There has to be some combo that makes it work for everyone. My guess is that that is what is going on. PHX wants Gordon and will need to offer up something nice to NOH to have them not match. Our parts could make a difference in that deal.

    75. Hehe, Daryl Morey just tweeted:

      RedNation please help me welcome @JLin7 back 2Houston today! Fitting-July4 as America is land of 2nd chances- #lin2houston in reply

      Cute.

    76. I also love this “engaging a third team” stuff. What do the Knicks have that any team would want that they can deal to entice Phoenix? They have nothing except for Shump. A 2017 first round pick, I guess?

    77. Our parts could make a difference in that deal.

      I don’t see either Jerome Jordan, Toney Douglas or Josh Harrelson impacting New Orleans’ decision-making when it comes to matching on the Eric Gordon offer.

      I mean, don’t get me wrong, I’m a big Jordan fan, but the NBA as a whole does not seem to be one.

    78. Does anybody think Nash is maybe a little annoyed with Toronto? I mean, it seems obvious he’d prefer to play with the Knicks, and then the Raps make it more difficult for him. “Hey, come play with us now that we’ve screwed you out of making more money in your preferred destination.”

      I’d be annoyed.

    79. The best part is Nash prefers to play for the Knicks because of the players on the team now aside from the fact he obviously loves the city itself. So Brian maybe Melo didnt help get the Knicks Chris Paul but shockingly he might help them get Steve Nash!! lol

      Of course in Nash’s case Amar’e and Chandler probably have alot more to do with it.

    80. Of course in Nash’s case Amar’e and Chandler probably have alot more to do with it.

      When Nash thinks of passing to those guys instead of Robin Lopez, Hakim Warrick and Marcin Gortat (well, Gortat is good), I bet he gets a little aroused.

    81. Steve Nash is a 2 time MVP, a lock HOFer with something definitely left in the tank. I know this site is a big believer in TS%, well his was .625 last year. Way better than Paul, Rose, Westbrook, Parker, etc. His FG% was .532, which is just outrageous for a PG. 89% from the FT line, 10.7 APG, when was the last time we had a PG that good in NY? I love Shump, but you’ve gotta grab this guy and make a run at a title.

    82. I actually found an article where the guy was arguing Nash shouldn’t want to come to the Knicks because of Tyson Chandler’s offensive liabilities. Yes, Steve freakin’ Nash shouldn’t want to play with one of the best pick and roll centers in the game. Suuuure.

    83. when was the last time we had a PG that good in NY?

      He has a nickname based on a hit film and he frequently wears clothing made out of alligators.

      (No offense intended to Micheal Ray Richardson but he was not in Nash’s league)

    84. Has anyone seen any medical reports that indicate Shump will return at less than 100%?

    85. The more I think about it, the more I start to feel this is a win-win situation. It would be great to see what Lin could do with Nash as a tutor. It possibly worked for Goran Dragic, and having Chauncey Billups ahead of Ty Lawson couldn’t have hurt. Lin and Nash could be very good for this franchise in the long run. If Shumpert goes, that will hurt, but I think we’ll survive.

    86. Massive—so the Knicks will have two really nice point guards–conceded. But who is their lock down defender? Not even an above average defender on this team except Chandler and JJ, who is always hurt. Every penetrator will get funneled to Chandler. BTW, I know Nash is tough, but his defense is poor. Particularly with this coach, I just don’t see this working out that well.

    87. Every penetrator will get funneled to Chandler.

      Good thing he is the defensive player of the year then. ;)

      Seriously, though, if this deal goes down, the mini-MLE is still in play as is the vet minimum exception. So the Knicks can easily (I mean easily) pick up a top notch perimeter defender if they so choose.

    88. Sorry for double post, but at least we do not have to worry about Dolan spending $$$ for Lin. Of course he is willing because he will recoup same in droves. How’s that for some unmitigated optimism boyos?

    89. I love Shump’s defense- but remember, he wasn’t playing much in the first part of the year, and we were a top 10 defense without him. If you look at 82games, we actually were a better defense when he wasn’t on the floor. Obviously there are tons of confounders in unadjusted plus-minus but the point is- we might just survive on D without him.

      I hope and hope that there is some way we can have our cake and eat it too, keeping both Shump and getting Nash. But if not, I seriously will be happy either way. It’s hard to argue with gettin Steve Nash, who probably is the greatest shooter of all time, and one of the best PGs of all time. And he hasn’t shown any signs of slowing yet. Getting to 40 is a huge deal of course, but his shooting won’t go away, and Lin can slowly take over the bulk of the PG minutes.

    90. daJudge:
      Sorry for double post, but at least we do not have to worry about Dolan spending $$$ for Lin.Of course he is willing because he will recoup same in droves.How’s that for some unmitigated optimism boyos?

      It really is one of those rare wonderful times when Dolan’s desires match up with the fans (particularly on this blog). Lin is the perfect Knick right now because he’s a young, talented, projectable home-grown guy who we all want to stay long-term, and he essentially prints money directly into Dolan’s wallet.

    91. My biggest fear in getting Nash is it will make Lin expendable enough that a silly contract by Houston with 12-15 mil in the third and possibly 4th years might be enough to convince us to let him walk.

      I think we are all overrating Shump quite a bit. He showed real promise but perimeter defenders are replaceable and he is going to miss a lot of this season and won’t be 100% till the following season and even if he loses no athleticism he has still lost an entire year of development which has permanently damaged his overall potential.

      I might be the only one who thinks this but if we do get Nash why not match Field’s offer. We will be over the apron so the only thing it will hurt is Dolan’s wallet.

    92. I kinda understand arguing that you shouldnt trade a young player who you believe has a nice future for a much older player who will be gone in 3 years. But please dont argue the trade actually doesnt help the Knicks because they are losing their only “lockdown” defender and completely underestimating/ignoirng the beyond massive upgrade the offense gets with Nash.

    93. Ben R:

      I might be the only one who thinks this but if we do get Nash why not match Field’s offer. We will be over the apron so the only thing it will hurt is Dolan’s wallet.

      Because Fields is a bigger waste of money at 3yrs/$20mil than Lin would be at 4yrs/$40mil.

    94. Oh yeah and that “lockdown” defender is coming off a major knee injury and isnt expected to be ready to play until January.

    95. If Shump leaves we gotta bring back JR. He makes some boneheaded mistakes on D sometimes but I thought overall his defense was very impressive last year. He bought in on defense last year and put out a ton of effort on that end.

    96. Brian Cronin: Good thing he is the defensive player of the year then. ;)

      Seriously, though, if this deal goes down, the mini-MLE is still in play as is the vet minimum exception. So the Knicks can easily (I mean easily) pick up a top notch perimeter defender if they so choose.

      How about Ronnie Brewer with the mini-mle? I don’t think Chicago is picking up his option. He might get more but I doubt it. Not as good on the ball as Shump but better on 2s and 3s.

    97. Brian, I guess we both know that Chandler is an awesome defensive player, but he also gets frustrated with the funneling. The fact that he was defensive player of the year (which I do recall) really doesn’t change that. My point was that he is one of the only defensive players on the team other than Shump. Brian, aside from his frustration, there’s those troubling fouls. Remember? It’s pretty clear Nash is a target for the Knicks and they may be willing to dump the Shump. I get that. But who are the top notch perimeter defenders that the Knicks can grab, that aren’t strictrole players? Shump is not just a lock down perimeter defender, but if you think that, I guess he’s pretty easy to replace.

    98. Robtachi: Because Fields is a bigger waste of money at 3yrs/$20mil than Lin would be at 4yrs/$40mil.

      I completely agree. I actually think we should bring both back since it costs us nothing except Dolan’s money. Bringing back Lin is a no brainer at any price. Fields on the other hand is a more questionable move and he would be grossly overpaid but since we’re be over the apron anyway I say why not.

    99. Shump has been my favorite Knick this year, but I’m 100% down with the Nash S&T. The way I see it, we aren’t gonna get to the ECF with the roster as is. Our “big 3” of STAT, Melo, and Chandler are only signed for 3 more years, so like it or not, that’s probably our window to compete with this roster. It makes all the sense in the world to throw all of our chips into this 3 year window. Furthermore, hopefully we’ll resign Lin and he can learn from Nash before taking over the reigns full time in a few years. We had to do something to get more competitive and if this goes down, it’s the right move. Ideally we’d also be able to use are mini-MLE on a 2 guard while keeping JR.

      Also, re James White, I know this says nothing about his ability to play basketball, but dude is an athlete. This has to be the craziest dunk I’ve seen: go to 4:45 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR2XFpaoOxo

    100. BigBlueAL: No, the Suns have all the leverage here.They dont care if Nash leaves to Toronto for nothing.Why would they help the Knicks by taking only crap back??You think the Knicks can tell them you better trade him to us because if not he leaves for nothing and you miss out on TD, Jorts and Jerome Jordan!!!

      We aren’t dumping contracts, we’re giving them cheap, half-decent bench players, plus maybe novak if they want him. Even gadzuric we’d be paying his salary for them. Plus any draft picks we add. The only reason to turn us down would be to spite steve nash, the face of their franchise the last 7 years.

    101. If Shump goes I think Pietrus and West needs a look. Then there is Anthony Parker, Marquis Daniels, Deshawn Stevenson, and even Grant Hill. I think they all can be got for the min.

    102. If it’s truly just close 2 10 mil in the final 2 years in the deal Houston is supposedly prepared 2 offer Lin, then we match without even thinkin..however anything more is tough to swallow. If we land Lin, what could we possibly offer Phoenix in a S&T for Nash? Especially with Landry out..are we..at this point seriously considerin givin Shump up? I mean..doesn’t keeping Lin make Nash less of a priority..if we match??

    103. is there any way to involve the lakers 9 million odom trade exemption in this? say LA signs nash into the exception slot and ships him and metta to the knicks for amar’e or some permutation of that?

    104. Some sportstalk radio host in Phoenix is saying Nash is being traded to the Lakers for multiple 1st rd picks since they have a 8.9 mil trade exemption. Wont believe it until national NBA writers report this (although Hahn retweeted him). Isola did chime in by saying a close friend of Nash is convinced he winds up with Lakers.

    105. Not gonna lie Im fucking bummed out right now. Icing on the cake will be Dwight Howard going to the Nets.

    106. somewhere in indiana donnie walsh is laughing his balls off.

      the coup de grace will be when Lin signs an uber deal with HOU and the knicks will be faced with paying a ton in luxury tax in ’14 and ’15 for a guy with a 26 game CV.

      lol dolan. lol us

    107. Hey Im pissed about this as much as anybody but its nowhere near doomsday for the Knicks. Just re-sign Lin, pickup a couple of decent bench players while hopefully re-signing Novak and JR Smith and we still will have a very good team. But yeah Nash not coming here kills any chance of seriously contending for a title unfortunately.

      But Ive always been someone to be thrilled that the Knicks should be a close to 50 win team and be competitive in the playoffs next season and Im not gonna waver from that.

    108. I have to say, I came around to the idea of trading Shumpert for Nash. I like Shump a lot, but there was no way I could claim we were getting ripped off in the trade. Like others posting here, I was worried we would then lose Lin. But the ESPN article is very definite, so it’s likely a done deal that Nash is going to the Lakers. Oh well, at least we got the Bird rights for Lin, so we can sign him and still shop.

    109. If I’m Kupchak- 1st I am hiring 14 hookers tonight because I deserve them- then 2nd, I call up Orlando and offer Bynum and a signed/traded Sessions for Dwight.

    110. Plan B tell the Rockets we will match Lin but take Lowery off your hands?

    111. Since we not getting Nash and not matching Fields Knicks should try use Full MLE now let apron take affect. Still need trade TD with $3 million cash incentive hopefully for pick. If we sign Novak $3 million this should not be problem. If JR doesn’t resign we can use the BAE also.

      Ray Allen, Mayo or JR to MLE (Try get into Allen fold ASAP)
      Vet Min to Kidd or Felton (Take Kidd over Felton)
      BAE to Camby

      Lin/Kidd or Felton
      Allen or Mayo or JR / Shump
      Melo/Novak
      Amare/JJ/Harelson
      TC/Camby/Jerome Jordan

    112. Wow, what a punch in the gut.

      At least we know we’ll have Lin, right? And we get to keep Novak and Shump who better friggin heal up nicely.

      Maybe we can get Camby on the cheap, s&t TD and Jordan for Sessions?

      At least we can go for quality depth now over “stars”.

    113. ess-dog:
      Wow, what a punch in the gut.

      At least we know we’ll have Lin, right?And we get to keep Novak and Shump who better friggin heal up nicely.

      Maybe we can get Camby on the cheap, s&t TD and Jordan for Sessions?

      At least we can go for quality depth now over “stars”.

      I just logged on to suggest the same thing..u beat me to it ess lol.

    114. Other thing to consider: with the Lakers having such a huge lux tax hit now, do they amnesty Artest? And does he fit here?

    115. I was very much on the fence with this whole Nash thing, but now that it’s over, I think this is for the best. If Lin is as good as Morey, Cuban et al think, he is, then we should really be contenders even without Nash.

      I still go Camby for the mini-MLE and find someone on vet minimum to back up Lin.

    116. Would much rather spend mini-MLE on a decent SG. Hopefully Kidd would come here for less than that but not sure.

    117. BigBlueAL:
      Would much rather spend mini-MLE on a decent SG.Hopefully Kidd would come here for less than that but not sure.

      Wouldn’t mind Courtney Lee. I think Ray Allen is out. Lee prob gets full MLE

    118. Alan Hahn smartly notes that while the pu pu platter (Toney, et al) wasn’t getting you Steve Nash, it could get you someone else pretty good. Heck, the Knicks could overpay a guy to get him to $6 million so that he would come to the Knicks. What free agents out there would you think would get roughly $6 million?

    119. I just watched some tape on Prigioni. He could be a steal at the vet min or a little above. He could give Lin a run for his money.

      We could probably get Mayo for 6 mil + if we wanted him. Maybe Grant Hill?

    120. Maybe Kris Humphries? Although the Nets probably won’t trade with us. Ryan Anderson?

    121. From Marc Stein at SI.com

      Just going up online: Michael Beasley has committed to sign with Phoenix Suns on a three-year, $18 mil, sources close to situation tell ESPN

    122. Knicks running out of choices. Better to be patient then making a foolish deal.

    123. OK..I think I’ve finally come to my senses afer panicking over losing out on Nash. If we can keep Earl, it’s definitely not the end of the world. I love Camby..but he’s getting up there in years..so maybe we shouldn’t look to add him unless he’s a vet min. We will need more offense off the bench tho. Hickson. Also I believe Hinrich is a great great fit and I think he would accept the vet minimum. Reliable J, smart PG, good defender..and he knows what woodson wants from the PG position. My preference would be Camby, Hinrich, and Hickson if we can make that work while keepin Novak and Earl. Also I still believe we should scoop Hollis Thompson and Machado up if no one else has. While I’d love to bring Jeffries back, I think replacing him with Camby works just as well. No camby can’t defend multiple spots like JJ can..but he’s a much better shot blocker/rebounder and he’s not totally inept on offense.

    Comments are closed.